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CJP 90: Youpie Toons - Part 1 · Coconut Justice

• Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hey, what's good? Youp is a hand drawn animator. He's the animator behind Youpie Toons that leverages grease pencil built in Blender. He's trying to keep the old school craft alive with modern tools. He's a cartoon junkie too, and that helped me get my fix during this conversation. This is my conversation with Youp. Before we get into it, Remember to go to coconut justice dot com to get you some clothes that I think would look good on you. Let's go. So when I tell you my job is wonderful, I'm telling you that because I get to reach out to people that I look up to in the art world and then and then into in i invite them to come and give me a chat and to talk to me and get to know me. And this time I get to talk to you from Youpie Toons Hi. Youp: Hey Carlos, how's it going? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Really good. It's so good to meet you. I've been gushing all over all over you and your artwork ever since we we connected on Instagram, dude. I love what you're doing. Youp: I appreciate appreciate it. And likewise, like the interviews you're doing with people, they're they're fantastic. It's enlightening. Especially the one you did like recently. That was that was really Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. With with Rodgon, is that the one? Youp: Right on. yeah, Rodgon, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. he's he's wonderful. He's he's one of the coolest people you'll ever meet. He's super giving. And I think that's that's one of the things that that gravitate gravitated me towards you is you know, you're you you're drawing old school style. You're making cartoons old school style, but in a in a new updated way, right? So what got you into using Blender? Youp: well I had lack of money. So right so right when I graduated university Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Artists need to stop saying things like that. We need to get paid. Youp: Well I I know, but like it's a good motivator to look at okay what's out there actually 'cause if Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I had Oodles of money I would just be using the same old software, but I didn't, right? I actually once I was done my thesis film, which was all stop motion, I really wanted to do a web series, like a historic animated web series. And I was used to using Toon Boom. And Toon Boom is like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Youp: the big software you use, and I used at university for tests and I was rigging stuff and doing a lot of my assignments in Toon Boom at school. but then when I stopped being a student, I stopped getting the student payment and then it it adds up. I look Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I think it's expensive quick, doesn't it? Youp: I'd calculate like wait a minute, if I work in this software for two years, I'll be dear. that's a huge, huge So my buddy at the time, Nick Alvarelli, who I was working on the polling with, he said, Hey yo man, use use Blender. Like Blender. Like I was all crotchety about it. And he opened up the website or he opened up the thing and he says, Okay, start drawing. And I'm like, I hate it. I hate it, it's difficult. And everything was bad. Because even this was during COVID. So the brushes Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: weren't up to date yet. They weren't textured nicely, it was slow. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. Youp: I couldn't make anything good out of it. So I was really like it was like kicking and screaming learning the software, but it was my only option. But but then I learned once I start learning about other blender artists like CG Hitchhiker, she she's a fantastic blender artist who is making classic cartoons with like a 3D character, like squash and stretch. So I saw her stuff, I'm like, man. And then I found the stuff of Pepe Land, Daniel Martinez Lara, who actually Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: is the like one of the key people of Grease Pencil. And so I'm like, okay, you just have to be patient with it and beat your head against the wall for a year and you'll eventually come out with something. so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's so true. Youp: so I we picked a very simplified TV style that I thought would be easy to do like the family guy Rick and Morty style. And we were able to rig it and we launched it. And I knew nothing about promoting my own series. I knew nothing about how to re reach out to people, Patreon, nothing. We just made it. Which is not something I recommend now because it puts Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: a lot of pressure on you to be like, this has to be good. It has to be good. so we made Blown Apart. And even though it was a we only did it for a year, but we were able to build a very, I would almost say fanatic. fan base. Like every time we posted, people were like, when's next one? We should you should do this one, this one. Because it was his it was history. And I was a hiss I'm a history nut. So I read nine books on Napoleon before I even did the cartoon every night to make sure Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): wow. Youp: every fact, every costume was accurate. because there's nothing I hate more than inaccurate film stuff. Bugs bugs me. But then the community grew and they gave me and a lot of like history students even contacted me like, hey, do this, do that, do this. So like there was a whole ecosystem. And it was really exciting. but eventually what happened was like any project, you do it for a year, like do I really want to do this for another year? Right. and what ended up happening is because we we chose a very optimized TV style of animation. And I became less an animator and artist and more person moving the puppet around. And the joy was the ideas were kind of running out. So eventually we all kind of as a team were like, yes, let's do let's do other stuff. Let's just do other stuff and come back fresh. Because I don't believe running something into the ground because it's working if you're not passionate behind it. If you think it's run its course, move on to something else. So that's when I floundered for a bit. I work in marketing, e learning. I worked for YouTube for big YouTube animation channels, learned what I did there. but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hmm. Was it directly with YouTube or was it animators that were publishing to YouTube? Okay, so like storytime animation and stuff? Youp: Animators. Yeah, yeah. So I I no more character driven. yeah. So I was doing Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): okay. Cool. Youp: that, but again, a lot of the animation style were more content, like quick, cheap, quick, quick, quick, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: feed algorithm. So I this is when I left marketing and e-learning because I wasn't finding joy out of it. And I wasn't really finding my space in YouTube either. Like w like, you know. So I became kind of depressed because I'm like, well, okay, what do I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: do? And I didn't know what Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And that's something that happens to that's something that happens to a lot of creative people. Like if you don't have anything to create, you you start getting sick and depression and Youp: But also if you're creating stuff you don't believe in. like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that's a great point. Youp: like like like if you're working on something and let's say you're a great draftsman or you're a great animator, but you're doing something that's like stick figures, it's like not not there's anything wrong with stick figure animation, right? There's some great stuff. I'm just using that as an example. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: but what actually got me really back into anime, and I've always loved animation, like, but I dropped it as a career because all my life people told me 2D is dead. It's dead. Don't stay away from it. okay. So I went into film and I'm like stop motion's not dead because there's Leica. And and funny thing when I did my my my thesis it did well and even some people from Leica gave me material to work on my stop motion skills. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): sick. Youp: But I didn't do it. 'Cause I burnt out. I I didn't do it. I'm like, maybe stop motion's not for me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Do you consider two D like where your heart lives? Same. Same. Youp: Yes, because it's it's it's limitless. Like you can do anything you want, like you can like with stop motion or rigged animation, you're confined. I love stop motion and rigged animation, I love both. But 2D is really malleable. Like you can just like your only limitation is your animation and your your willingness to practice and be get better. so I it started for me when I was like all being all sad and crotchety. I'm like, I might as well check out if there's any new animated movies that I like out there. Usually there are very few. Very few. A lot of stuff I didn't like. And it was the day the earth blew up that actually was a big eye-opener for me. Because I'm like, my god, people are still doing classic Really high quality cartooning. And then I found the Looney Tunes cartoons of HBO. So I got like, my God, these are my people. So I quickly thought, okay, let's learn classic animation where I picked up from high school, picked up all the books again, practiced for a year, and I wanted to make a portfolio. so but then when I released my first run cycle, it blew up. I think in one day it got like 200 K views and it's still going. Yeah. It was just a simple one cycle. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's that's pretty sick. Youp: I I was pretty like like stunned by it because I'm all the responses, and crazy enough. This is you becomes yeah, yep, yeah. So the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is this on your was this on your current Instagram? Yeah. Youp: first video I have, it's the guy that's like running on the beach and I explained the whole shot. Like that was the first thing I posted, and then from 200 followers to what it is now, like it Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I'm one of those. Youp: most of my new friends are one of those. which I'm really grateful for because I'm not the best at making friends in person. Like that's something I struggle with. but what was cool about it is like classic cartoons and I realized people like classic cartoons because I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: thought people liked three D or you know Spiderverse stuff. which I which I love, but it's not my thing. So that's not my thing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I agree. Youp: but but what was really incredible is I there was a comment that says, man, I love doing the line art too. I'm like, so people so I'm like, who was that? And that was Dave Woodman. I'm like, Who's Dave Woodman? And he did the final line drawings to Little Mermaid, and I'm like, so then Dave said, you need to meet my buddy Mike, and then I started slowly meeting all my heroes I've looked up to my whole life in the span of three months. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Yeah. Youp: And they were so kind. like they would reach out, like, hey, let's have a chat. Most of them they were like, What are you doing? Like, how are you like, what are you what's offer? Like, what's what school you come from? What Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What is this magic? Youp: is this weird Dutchman that's doing like So it was a lot of explaining. but it was it was amazing and I'm still kind of getting over it. and and then be then then then I'm kinda done. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What's been their and I'm sorry for cutting you off, but this is this Youp: please, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): is this is like a really interesting point in your life. I know two D animators. I've met two D animators like Travis Blaze. I've met his brother. Aaron Blaze. I've Youp: Aaron Blaze. he's fantastic. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): met the Bancroft brothers and stuff like that. And those guys are old school. You just met him? cool. I Youp: I met I just met Tony. Yeah. I'm Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): took a class with one of them. I don't know if it was Tony or not, but I took a I took a drawing class. they were doing a a Kickstarter. And I'm a fool for two D animators. And Kickstarters, just take my money. Just take it. Youp: Yeah, me too. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): but when you're meeting these guys and you know that they come from they're flipping papers back and forth, and you're using Blender, what's been their reception with this new guy with all these new tools? Youp: Well, this was kinda my thinking. I was actually scared to pose for the longest time because I didn't want the people I looked up to, if they saw my work, to go, Right? So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: I actually before I went into Blender, I learned paper animation. And yeah, so I could I could Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. Do you have a desk and everything? Do you have the wheel, the drawing wheel? Youp: I'll I'll show you something really funny. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Let's go. Let's go. Youp: couldn't find one, so I found a piece of wood and I put some animation kicks on it! It was in the basement! So that's what I'm using now and it works. One day I hope. So one day Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's outstanding. And that's and and so for for for people that don't understand what animation pegs are, they hold your paper in place and they so you can continue to have like consistent movement. You're not shifting the paper and yeah. That's amazing Youp: Yeah, so I can flip through it in the pages or yeah. Yep. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): that you that you did that. That's Youp: Well, I I I I looked at animation desks and like, I don't have four thousand dollars for that. So I ordered Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I know, I know. Youp: like the pegs and the pegs are cheap. So you can just drill it to your desk and just start. Like it's it's actually it's once you stop overthinking you need all these expensive tools, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And that's a wonderful part about being a creative is is you're a creative problem solver. Youp: You have to be, especially if there's no funding. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No. Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I I got so many compliments 'cause I my heart and my d my body, everything in me wants to be a two D animator. But then I went and I got really good at programming and I used to get really wonderful compliments from programmers. They would say things like, I can tell you're an artist because the way that you're solving all these problems are just unique. And that's all programming Youp: I I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): is is problem solving. Youp: I think this is my opinion. I think the greatest advantage 2D animators can have is understand software. because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: there is a belief that 2D animation is slow, it's outdated, it's you know, it's in the past. It's actually not. If you learn modern tools and you can optimize Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: the workflow, it's relatively fast. Of course, it's not fast like live action or like AI animation, right? But it's it's faster than it was in the forties, so that's a That's a bonus. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Like Aaron Blaze made his whole snow bear film by himself, drawing on paper, scanning. Youp: Yeah. And he also used Procreate for one short he's done, which is just an iPad app. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. The penguin one? Youp: smart. So smart. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. I mean It's there. You're a creative person. Like the world is your oyster. Like go get it. Youp: It's it the tools are there. You don't Yeah. Yep. Yep. And I think that's why it's so important for artists who care about the art form to share their processes and not hide them and hoard them. Because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. Youp: then you're then you're just benefiting only yourself, right? And I don't think, in my opinion, you're really part of an artistic community if you guard all your secrets like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Youp: If you want if you want people to support you, you have to support them back. So that's what I believe. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a saying that I started using because I heard it hanging out with certain folks. They said Youp: Uh-huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): game and then in this instance, game is the knowledge of 2D animation. Game should be told, not sold. Youp: Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And if you want to build a community, like if it if you want to build a community, that's the way to do it. For 2D animators, you have to or two D artists, whatever, you have to show the process. People love watching you draw. Youp: Ed edutainment, which is like which is now being used more often, like when I was in marketing or like advertising, people no longer really gravitate towards some sexy person with a Lamborghini going, follow my course or like do buy my stuff. It may have worked in the beginning. You see this car back here, like that guy, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I drew ten thousand pictures just to get this car. Youp: Yeah. You can do it too. Just buy my twenty thousand dollar snake. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Buy my class, that's only gonna confuse you even more. Youp: Even more. I I so now what edutainment and a lot of content creators are catching on to this, it's no longer views that is valuable, it's saves and reshares and reposts. And if Instagram sees this video has been saved, it means it has educational value and it will promote it for you. The algorithm has changed, so now it will promote you based on how much saves you have. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: one way to get saves is do more than just post pretty pictures, talk about your struggles. Talk about what you've learned, what resources you use to learn what you're doing. So people are like, cool, I can do this now. And you become you become a teacher in a way, or like a a person that helps the ecosystem. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. What was I gonna say? Damn it. Artist ADHD brain. Just kicked in. Youp: my brain is also a sc scrambled eggs. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's a double edged sword. You get so many ideas Youp: Yeah, it's really helpful for some things. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): but if you don't hurry up and say it, you get lost. And that's that's the fun part about finding your people online and and having them come and talk to you is like you get to understand that there's people out here that understand your brain. Youp: get you get to be yourself. Funny enough, I never spent much time with other artists except in university. When I did university I hung out mostly with like like marketing people or like business people. I was one of the few art people there. Like I had teams of people that I worked with or whatever, but it was always like geared for commercial or for it was never pure creativity. That's only been recent for me. And like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: yeah, though it's a whole other different breed of people. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. For real. Youp: Right? Because they go, How can I sell my art? and not how can this art sell my product? Like that's a different Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And isn't it funny how all the people that have all these wonderful products and they have their own companies and they're super successful until it's time to pay the 2D artist? Like, I thought you just had that Lamborghini in the back. Why is it that now that I show up and I have work to do, now all of a sudden you're poor. Youp: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I've experienced that firsthand where we just gotta it's like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Your business school is terrible. Youp: it's like we just meet our yearly quota, we're doing greater than ever. am I gonna see some of that? cr now that I take a second look at it where Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): how dare you? Just the exposure alone should make you happy. Youp: What am I made out of money here? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And I think this is a really good point to tell the younger artists that are coming up. You no longer have to do things for exposure. You no longer do not work on a corporate project until they put money on the table. Youp: I feel so bad for people because I had some younger artists say to me, like, hey, I'm working on this and it's so great and I'm not getting paid, but blah blah blah. I'm like, wait, what? no. Like just right now walk away and just make your own stuff. Because the people who are taking advantage of young Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Have your own projects. Youp: people are charlatans. They're 100% charlatans. They're like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: we have like if someone cares about you, they would never put you to work and say we'll pay you an exposure. That's a that's a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: very old system way of thinking. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Go try and buy a sandwich for lunch with exposure. Youp: Yeah. Exposure does not taste like anything. It doesn't fill your belly. It it it Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I'd I t hey, I tried to pay my rent with smiles and hugs. That shit doesn't work. Youp: There must be a really kind landlord who's like, you know what, that smile, that's worth fifty bucks. Thanks. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was looking for a hug today. Youp: Yeah, no, it's it's it's dreadful. But I I think these kind of people are losing the battle because these are not genuine people. So they can't be genuine online, which means they can gain a following. So it's catching up. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And quite honestly, that's the old way of doing things and artists are waking up to that shit. Like we don't need we don't need business leaders. We can do our own thing. We can be our own business leaders. Youp: I I because what's even more exciting is that lots of veterans in the industry are realizing this too. I was talking to a great, great like cartoonist who I whose cartoons I grew up in the nineties. And and he and he also was pitching his idea for years. And he was like, you know what? But I spent so much time pitching it, I could have just made the darn thing. And He he learned computers and he just made it. And it's way more valuable. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Do you know the name of that project? 'Cause there's a couple of them that I've been Youp: I I'm I'm a big supporter of Bill Cobb. do you know Bill Cobb? Bill Cobb did he he Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Bill Cop. I've heard the name and I've yeah. Youp: he worked with Roger Rabbit, like the Roger Rabbit shorts, Eek the Cat, he did pirate. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. Roger Rabbit is one of my ul ultimate f favorite films. Youp: but even the shorts are just out of this world. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: Tommy Trouble was my favorite short I had on VHS. It was just over and over again watching that short. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Burnt a hole in that tape. Youp: more. I i the the tape came out because I kept rewinding it, right? 'Cause I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: wanted to see that shot again and eventually all the tape came out. I'm like, well, all right. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I wanna build up to your college career, your university career. But before that, did you did you always draw? Did you always wanna be an artist? Did you always yeah? How supportive Youp: Yeah, and that was because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): were your parents with your with your art endeavors? Youp: luckily I can't I grew up in an art family. So yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): my God, what a blessing. Good for you. Youp: So my my dad's mother was really into cartoons, so she had all the Tex Avery and Looney Tunes. And my mom side Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yes, ma'am. Youp: and my mom's side had all the VHSs of Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy, and so I had the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Duda. Youp: best education for both. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Can you reach out to your parents and see if they want to adopt me? Youp: I I think I w I think I already turned her hairs gray early, so maybe Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So they're like, not another artist. Youp: Like one one art sun is is good enough. but they were always supported, they always let me transform my bedroom into a film studio. when I Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): my god, how wonderful. Youp: Yeah, always support there. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I was like that too. I would use I would use all my toys and I'd set up different scenes. I would use I would use kite string and tie kite string from one side of the room to the other. Steve Austin, the million dollar man, would slide from one side of the room to the other one. For I had so many exciting movies playing in my room. Youp: my I made a whole series with my Spider-Man action figures. Like I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: and I would c I would like my and I I was a weirdo. I would make my eyes were the transitions. Every time there was a fade out, I would close my eyes and then redo the shot and open them. That's the new shit. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That is so cool. Youp: Yeah, so and like every time there was a whip pan, I would just whip my head and you know, like kinda stop. Very strange. Let's just say when I was in this like in and the playground or like anywhere else. I'm like, okay, Yup's doing his own thing. We'll play four square or basketball. Let Yup do his own thing with his toys in the corner. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: well. Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's awesome. What was the first art school you got to go to? Youp: I didn't go to art school really. th I was no, I was fortunate when I went to school in Eastwood there was a really good arts program and they really encouraged and did like like theater and I was a big theater kid back then. There was a film Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): cool. Youp: class, so I learned my Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So you act two? Youp: yeah, I did acting and improv. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah? hell yeah. Youp: so and that's really great for animators, right? 'Cause we can like act in front of the camera and like get ideas. So I'm very grateful for the teachers there because they kind of like built up my confidence there. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: so from there I went to Ryerson, which is now called something else. The Metrop Metropolitan University something. They changed their name. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And to let everyone know you live up in Canada. Youp: For now, yeah. I don't Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): For now. Yeah. Youp: know how long I'll stay, but I've moved twenty five times in my life, so I don't know where I'll go next, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Twenty five well, I can't I've I've I've done my travels too. twenty five, that's impressive. Did you start in Canada? Where did you start? Where were you born? Youp: I was born in Holland and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Holland. Okay. Youp: so Netherlands. I I was born in Breda. and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Youp: I only moved I moved to America. I moved to Texas when I was seven and I learned English there. And then I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Okay. Youp: bounced around from Canada and I lived there, lived in LA for a year, lived there, lived lived in Colombia for a year. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm assuming your parents I'm assuming your parents were they had jobs that moved them around. You weren't you weren't like a you weren't like a a child actor or anything. Youp: yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No idea a runaway child. Like strong bowly, like just going around town with a puppet show, like going around the puppet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I was a baby model. Youp: No, no, they they my dad had a job that basically enabled him to like travel places. And I'm at the time it was tough because, you know, friends, but now I'm older, I'm like I've got to meet so many great people, different cultures, you know, which so it's been great. It's been it's been actually like educational moving around and seeing what people's values are in different places. You learn up that Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: you learn not to have tunnel vision, like this is the only way the world is. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's the that's the important one. If you travel a lot and I understand that it's a lot of work and moving around and all that stuff, but that is so so important to being a cool person. Youp: Yeah. Yeah. Y like even if you don't agree with someone politically, you get to see, they're a person. They have a family. They have love in their heart, right? So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: and I try to remember that from my youth, right? Like if there's someone spouting something I disagree with, I'm like, that person is just doing the best they can. Like they also, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: you know, like they don't and they may do the same thing with me, right? Like, that person's you know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a lot of people that think I'm crazy. Youp: I I I think I think I think I think it's very easy to appear crazy if you spout your beliefs and they don't know the person or the story why you have those beliefs. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I that's what I think. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. No, and it also informs your all this travel and all this getting to know people and all this exposure to different cultures becomes very, very important when you're trying to be a creative too. Not everything is going to be a white man cartoon. Youp: because you No, and and that's and that's something I think we need to really pay attention to is okay, like think about like who your audience is. It's not just your friends or your family, it's different people, different backgrounds. Some people might find this funny, but other people might find that not funny. And you have to really like what are your values, right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: and make sure you're just genuine without like punching down on people if that makes sense based on the well, everyone else is punching down on these people, so I guess I'll join in, right? Like it's it becomes yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And there's a way to do it in humor. Like, there are things that can be offensive if you say it in a certain way. However, if you understand the culture, they will give you the little cheat codes to be able to tell that joke without really being offensive or an asshole about it. Youp: Well, when you watch as much like old cartoons or black and white films, you notice that that changes. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: what was acceptable is not acceptable. Like even I I saw something really funny in like a I always look at stuff. So there was a studio that always did, for example, blackface, right? It was very popular, it was everywhere. I mean Duncan Disney did it, Al Jolson. And then they were like, All right, that's no longer cool anymore. But it is cool to make fun of Japanese people, because we're at war with. Okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: we didn't learn much, I guess. Okay, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We're just gonna shift our our mean focus to some other group. Youp: that group is no longer cool to make fun of, but this one's still okay. So so I Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. That group over there gets touchy, so let's go pick on them. Youp: So I think now it's our responsibility to be like, wait, am I like am I making fun of the like I what I like to make fun of is always like punch up. what Chaplin believed in, right? Like punch up because why punch down? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. What are they gonna do? Yeah. Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I wonder how much of that No, I've seen I've seen people punch down and and be successful at it. But the the important part there is you just can't be a jerk. Youp: n unless it's very clever, like what like and it's thought provoking and it makes you question your your your wow, when you say it like that, yeah, my belief system doesn't make sense. Like then I find value in it, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: it takes a really good wordsmith or a good artist to communicate it without starting a riot. Because and then that's the part about being an artist or stand up comedian, right? There's lots of stamina comedians I absolutely adore that say stuff and you're like, Did they say that? But there's so much truth in it. you know. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Like for example, Andrew Schultz, I don't know if you know who that is, but Andrew Schultz is a comedian. He's based in New York and he did a stand-up comedy special where he talked about how blackface was was really bad. But then he shifted that into but like what if you're in the special forces? And then he says, like if I was a Navy SEAL and you saw my white face, wouldn't you want me to cover this? So otherwise we're gonna die. Youp: All right, Sarge, ready for the mission. Yo, take that stuff off your face, soldier. What are you thinking? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Get your face That's blackface. Get that shit off your face. Youp: As long as the red lips are not there, I guess it's not, but yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that's the one. that's the one. Jesus. But yeah, it's it's weird how it's weird how people treat each other. Like everyone wants to get along every for the most part. Everyone wants to get along. Everyone wants to be friendly with each other. Everyone wants to live in peace. Everyone wants to be left alone. Everyone wants to create whatever it is that they want to create. And we and we come back and we're like, No, you're living in peace. We wanna ru we wanna mess with you. Youp: Yeah. Well that that's why I like classic cartoons because when you watch a cartoon or anything that's really funny and it's and it's just telling a story or just making you laugh, you kind of laugh next to the person. I'm talking about like actual like in like a in a film festival, right? Or when Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: you like something on the internet and you look down and you see people enjoy it just as much as you, I think that's r the best way to break barriers is with laughter and just Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: connecting over something that inspires you and just makes you just cry with laughter. But I think that's the most beautiful thing or experience on the planet is when you're laughing so hard, like your belly hurts or your you have tears Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: in your eyes. I I think that's the great I think I hope every person it's not always the case, but experience that at least once a day, right? Like real laughter. it's hard to laugh these days. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. One of those belly laughs. Yeah. Yeah, that's Youp: I'm not laughing much, but I try to Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Like let let's touch on that real qu no, yeah, let's touch on that real quick. With everything that the United States is doing in the world today, like how is it how is it living in Canada? Youp: Well Canada has their own problems. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Sure. Youp: like, yeah, it's very easy to look over the border and be like, but Canada has an extreme housing problem. in my opinion. The food is way too expensive. people my generation are like, I guess I'm not gonna own a house. You know, like it Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: like it it's it's like i i i Canadians sometimes I feel this is gonna backfire. I'm I I I'm mostly Canadian. But because I moved around so much, I feel dis I don't feel like I have a quite a place yet. But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: I feel a lot of Canadians are more worried about American politics than their own. Because it's very easy to look over the border and figure out what Trump is doing, but then their own prime minister is doing some wacky things. That's awesome. And he gets to kind of do it because everyone's focused on Trump. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: can can I's waking up to that a little bit? Like, wait, what's going on here? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Good. Yeah. Youp: so And that's why I feel like Canadians have a a r huge sympathy for Americans who are like, sorry about what's happening in politics. and yeah, it's it's it's tough, but it's also in Europe, right? 'Cause I have family in Europe. Europe is also tough. Like there are some extreme right wing people gaining power in Europe who mirror Trump. like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. If not worse. Youp: If not worse, well, there's a politician, Dutch politician, I don't care, I can say it, Gertr Wilders, who is like the Dutch Trump. He even has the or the blonde helmet here. He I'm not kidding you. It's hilarious. He actually looks like a Dutch Trump. And he's all like, get the immigrants out, and meh. And it's it's I think it's a global thing that's happened. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: It's not just America. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And that's a that's a good part about w what we're going through is you know, people say people say the only thing that's gonna bring humanity together is a UFO coming and giving us a threat. But I don't think Yeah. Or cartoons. Youp: Or cartoons. Or funny cartoons. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): but I think I think the the threat of of What's happening is waking everyone up and giving us giving us that that phenomenon of of space aliens coming to take us over because we have humans that are trying to take us over. And all of us are like starting to wake up and push back and say, hey, hey, hey. Youp: Yeah, and we see that too with AI, right? Like a lot Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: of a lot of artists are like, I used to do this, now I'm a prompter, thanks. Or I used to do this and now I'm unemployed, thanks. Like it's not just it it's it it feels like in in with technology, our every a facet of our lives feels, at least for me, feels I don't know if the correct word is infringed upon. not infringed, It's like someone's like just messing with us with everything we like. Like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: I I even just recently stopped all my subscription services because I didn't like how they were deleting cartoons without asking us, or changing cartoons because they were old fashioned, or removing movies but not making sure there's a digital copy so we can see them. That happened with Final Space is a great cartoon. Netflix just kind of said, we don't want to show it anymore. Now no one can Watch it. So I kind of renounced every single streaming service and went back to DVDs and Blu-rays as a so it I but I feel like a lot of people are doing small defiances like that, like buying Blackberries again, buying VHS, like that's kind of a small rebellion that's happening. that's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): My not so smartphones. Yeah. Youp: why nostalgia is so powerful, right? Right now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: like the authentic way of being without gl like you know, without the glossy stuff that we're renting. We're not even buying it. We're renting it. We don't even own it. Like what happened with video games? Like they stopped making physical video games. Like all right now you're friendly. I'm like, thanks. Well Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They only have downloads now and all these gamers are so upset. Youp: such as gamers, it's like I I I I bought my favorite like the data earth blew up. I bought the Blu-ray. I'm like I can't wait for the commentary and the bonus features which every DVD has. Nothing. It doesn't have any of that. Because no one cares. I'm like What is going like what is happening? Like do we does does no one care about I'm ranting, but like that was really unfortunate for me. Like a lot of new films are like being thrown in a streaming service and if they don't do well they disappear. It's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. You know what's funny, now that you say that, what's funny is I talked to some of my friends that work down in LA Youp: Uh-huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and they say with the advent of and the introduction of of AI, there's gonna be so many films being made that are trash. And I said Youp: Maybe, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and I said, more than the ones that Hollywood has been making? Have you seen Sharknado? They not all of are Youp: Listen, I would go into Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): winners. Youp: listen, I would go into Sharknell with a giant grin on my face and having to sit through the Disney remakes. I I I I w when I saw what they did with Snow White, I'm like, this should be a war crime. like like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: it was really unfortunate just the at the disrespect to the source material. I didn't understand it, like what a PR like per like public relationship disaster that was, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: And listen, like Sharknado, I'll watch it all day long. it's what I find really upsetting for me is just the cheapening of animation or the cheapening of IP that we grew up in care about. that makes me really upset. Like some Disney remakes are actually really good. Like I like I like the Cinderella, I like Maleficent, I liked Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, but do you have to remake everything? Like how lazy Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): if there's plenty of stories out here. Why do we need Youp: Well well this is what I wanted to touch upon. I found out that the Daily Earth blew up, which is again one of my favorite films, and the animation director I met, he actually helped me with my animation. He did drawovers. Yeah, Joey Caffs, yeah. So if you look at my thing, you're like, Ha, I made a cartoon, but he did drawovers and he he knew the Looney Tunes language, so I kind of absorbed it a little bit. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: but that film only cost Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Which is outstanding. Youp: I he's a great guy. Joey's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's it's so cool. Youp: a great guy. Joey's such a good guy. but what I found interesting is okay, the Day of the Earth Blue Up cost, I think, seventeen million to make. Right? And how much did these Disney remakes cost? Like hundreds of millions. I'm like, what is gonna like who is making these decisions? Like, why spend two hundred million dollars on a film no one wants to see when it costs 20 million to make a really high-class animated cartoon that people are yearning for. Like you saw that with Coyote versus Acme and the Dave the Earth Blue of Warner Brothers wanted to kill them for a tax write-off because they didn't have faith in them. And and and and you're like, okay, well, first of all, yeah, the artists and that's all, but what a what an insult to the culture you helped create, like American film culture, right? Would Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: you would you look at Orson Wells' legacy and go, it's crap, no one wants to see that anymore and bury it? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: No, right? man, Jacqueline Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Stop reading those classic books. Like, wait a minute. Youp: doesn't speak. Why look at him? Like, you know, like the Looney Tunes, the Looney Tunes or Tex Avery or Hanna Barra was paired with top films. So before you watch like a magnificent piece like the Wizard of Oz or anything like that, there was a cartoon before. And the cartoon standards were of the same standard of those classic films. And now it seems People still really want high quality films, but the cartoons, it's kid stuff. And I'm like, how did that happen? Right? because I'm a big fan of modern cartoons as well. Like I love the the the over the garden wall, big fan of Rick and Morty, all that stuff. But does everything have Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: to look the same? Right? Does everything like why, why well I'm kind of like Not sad about but like people are like, I like you're bringing the cartoons back when they see my stuff. I'm like, isn't that a depressing thought that someone has to bring it back? Like, shouldn't it just be there? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and and all of the two D animators are sitting there saying, We've been telling you this for decades. Youp: We like like like like like people wanna see cartoons and the Hollywood Bigwig's like, No, only three D and AI and remakes. That's what the audience wants. And the audience Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. 'Cause they keep going to the to the cheap and easy. Youp: Well, I I I don't know I'm not I don't know anything about money or economi the like you know, like how Hollywood functions as a entity. But there's definitely a reason they want to do shortcuts and maybe they see the end days. Maybe they say, we're gonna collapse in two years if we we gotta cut. I'm like, fine. But if you're not gonna produce high quality cartoons, then maybe independent studios can. If you're not if you're not gonna do high quality cartoons, Hannah Barbera stuff, Tex Avery stuff, Lunetoon stuff, or Silly Symphonies. The tools are now so good, 2D animators can just go, cool, because before, and this is interesting, before 2D animators didn't have much of a choice. There was Adobe Animate and Toomboom and TV Paint, which is a French software. That was it. But you still needed After Effects, an editing suite. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: Now Blender is all of that. So that's why I've been kind of furiously promoting Blender like 'cause I don't I want more Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And it's open source, you guys. It's open source. Blender is Youp: You can download Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Blender is low key one of the most powerful and flexible softwares out there. Period. Youp: Just look at the Oscars, Flow. He made his whole movie in Blender, did the animatics in Blender, did every rendered it and saw it. What like if a small team can make Flow, which is a 3D film, and by the way, the Blender studio, the people at Blender, they're making their first film right now. so we're gonna see the first open source film ever made. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: it makes sense historically for classic cartoons to finally have a new home where We can just focus on the quality without all the corporate penny pinching. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And if and if you were if you were a Flash animator, that's that was my come up. I'd I went to film Youp: We don't. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): school. I went to film school, I went and I learned 3D Studio Max and I learned all the softwares, all the softwares. Youp: I learned all software too. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. But when when Flash came out and you could draw and and I didn't have to render and I could I was like, boy, my my prayers were answered. Youp: I I I stumbled on Flash because one of my favorite internet animators at the time, Harry Partridge and Oni let me go back. I burped. That can that that can go out. No, start Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha. Youp: with that. Start with me burping. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Joy gives us gas. Youp: yeah. so like Harry Partridge and Oni N G, they said, Hey, here's how I make my internet cartoons and he just did it in Flash. So I started making my own really, really bad, inappropriate cartoons that no one will see. But I started in Flash, right? It was it's great. now it's a little obsolete, but it was the start, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And now the progression is you grow out of Flash and now Blender. And now again, all of these skills that we just got done learning, all the 3D Studio Max, all the thinking in 3D space, we can do that. But grease pencil, grease pencil. You guys, if you use Flash, please pick up Blender and get into Grease Pencil. Youp: You you're almost doing yourself a disservice because here's what I think, and and this is my opinion, right? But the technology has finally caught up to the 2D art form. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. Youp: which means there was always kind of a bottleneck between c quality for independent animators. And we've seen places like Glitch Studio, they broke that ceiling and are making great stuff in 3D. Now finally 2D can play in that same ballpark. So for the first time, we might be able to see independent animation that is of the quality of the old Looney Tunes. But here is the thing that I really care about. We can't do it without the knowledge of the veterans. Because they have that Disney knowledge. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: So I I was very lucky because I'm gonna be taught by Mike Polvani. He's an a he's a veteran animator, he worked on Little Mermaid, Iron Giant, he animated Mickey Mouse. So he told me I learned from Dale Bear, who learned from the nine old men who made Fantasia at Disney. So f animation cannot how I see it, it can't mature or progress into the new digital space without the teaching or blessings of the old guard. Because they have the knowledge in their heads how to make proper cartoons, right? So otherwise we're just hobbyists mimicking the past. Right. And that's the danger of taking something of I'm gonna make cartoons myself, but not knowing what it takes. so I hope that we're gonna see Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. And proper storytelling and and and the thing about like a show don't say. You know? Like filmmakers, that's those these are the things that they That you should be learning when you're making cartoons and because with great power comes great great responsibility. Thank you, Peter Parker. So you have something like a blender, you have something like a flash, you have something like a Photoshop, you have all these tools and you can literally do whatever you want. But it has to have Youp: Well, this is what folks are. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): a structure so it's so it's palatable for people. Youp: You have to look at the structure of the past. Like for example, I looking at Dumbo. and remember that scene where Dumbo is touching the trunk with the mother and they're having a scene, there's music. Modern animations would be like, They'll get bored. Make it quicker. Have them talk. Have Dumbo Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cut fast. Youp: go, I miss you, mom, and move along like I feel like a lot of animated movies have become like jiggling keys in front of the screen to keep people entertained. Like it's almost Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: like we're forgetting slow down with your character. Let the drawings speak for themselves, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I really hope when, because I'm optimistic more than now, when 2D cartoons become more done, that we're gonna see a bit more of that mature mature storytelling, hopefully. That that'd be really, really nice to see. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And that that feeds into kind of like the machine of Hollywood. This is how it works. The reason why the budgets are so big is because basically they're top heavy. They have managers upon managers upon managers upon managers. Youp: stars taking up thirty percent of the budget and it could be going to animate Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): s all the stars and all the stars have their have have their people that need to eat. So you have all of this money going into a project and they cannot give that much money to a property that is a liability. You have no idea. You have no idea what this that's why they Youp: Well that's why they don't even, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): don't make it. So what they do is they wait for people like you and me We make things and then we put it on YouTube and then they say, Hey, that's that's getting a lot of attention. Let's go buy that. Youp: I I I I don't like I I'm I've never been in the industry, right? my background is Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: marketing. but what I hope to see, instead of being like, Hey, I like that, let's go make that. What happens, and I've been warned by this by a couple of people I really looked up to. They said, Be careful when Hollywood comes to you with a contract, just come work for us. Cause then they can say they can shower you with money and buy your property, but then they'll own it. And they can change the pipeline. They can add they can they take control of it. So what you've built is for nothing because it goes back into the same machine. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I I've been I I think now seven like w I consider legends in the animation industry have warned me about that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: And I'm not saying the industry is bad. I'm not saying that at all. But I'm more cautious now. Like my dream was to go work at Disney, right? I was I love the Disney Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Same. Youp: Company studio. I love Warner Brothers. I love all those Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Same. Youp: great, great, great studios. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: But now there's just so much like mistrust now. Does that make sense? And I wish Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Youp: that I I feel that's gonna get better over time. I really do. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The the whatever this restructuring is that's happening on the planet right now is going to is going to tell us whether or not that sentiment will work. I I was like you. I loved I loved all the Disney stuff. I loved all the Warner all the MGM stuff, all the Warner Brothers stuff, all the 2D stuff was my god, I was in heaven. And then you Youp: huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): get to Hollywood. I'd never I never got to work on a cartoon, but you know, I did I built websites in Flash. So Tangled, the Disney movie Tangled. It was me and another friend of mine. We built that website. The amount Youp: That's cool. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): of time and when I say me and a friend of mine, that's all it was. And it was a big ass website. We had lanterns flighting all over the place. We had all kinds of animations, all kinds of stuff happening, all kinds of stuff. But the amount of work that you put towards that project and it wasn't, you know, I was working for a company. So it was this company that took advantage of me. But you know, it's it's one of those things where you show up and you're in the game now and you're there and you have to work. So then that way you can, you know, move up and the ladders and all the Dumb stuff that they tell you, yeah, the grind, Youp: The grind. It's the grind. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you gotta and then when you realize wait a minute, there's a certain group of people that gets treated a little bit better than me. Youp: That's I've learned through like again, like the friends I've made, I've learned that some of the Disney artists who worked for the greatest films of all time, like Little Mermaid, were treated like poop. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: They were not treated well, they were underpaid. And if they worked overtime, they were paid in drawings, not in money. Yeah. I I've learned that. Like, you wanna work overtime? You get you get some Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So now so now in this in this industry you have to be careful. In drawings like they got to draw more or they actually got to take the drawings home. Youp: No, no, they got to keep the drawings that they made. They got to keep one drawing, I think. what Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Which is crazy. They say and then and then they read and then they come back and they say things like, Well at least you have a job. Be thankful that you have a job and you're like, What the fuck? And then what was the other Youp: Yeah, or even worse. sorry. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): one? Be be thankful that you have a job was one. And whatever. Anyway, there's excuses ever Youp: Replaceable? That's what I found. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): there's excuses upon excuses to again the business side of art versus the art side of art. The art side of art, you'll fall in love and and and when you meet your people, everything is wonderful. But then when you start dealing with these businesses Exactly what you said. They're gonna change things, they're gonna move things, they're gonna change the characters, they're gonna change the story. Youp: I like I have a huge respect. Like I'm on my Instagram I'm very like like it like it's like I'm I'm my instant my my persona on UPTunes is a bit cartooned car cartoonized, right? But I do have Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: a huge respect for the people who are making a business out of art because it pays for people. but I feel like a lot of the business decisions being made are based off fear. Like we have to make it safe. We have to make it digestible so people Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: watch it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: So everything feels sterile now and no and everyone's scared to make to take a leap of judgment because we want to have a we want to have a return on investment. This has worked, so we'll do it till we die. And not until some indie guy puts his own time and money into something to prove that it works will we will we consider it. Which is a great business model because it means all the risk is on people like the Indies Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Us. Yeah. Youp: is on us, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. and the other one was the other one that I was trying to remember was when the writers and the artists and everybody were going on strike a couple of years ago and the CEO Youp: Yep. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): of Disney said, we'll just wait for them to not be able to pay their rent. They'll be back. Youp: it's that kind of Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That one, that one made me so it broke my heart. It broke my heart. Youp: Yeah, I like I said, I'm I've only been learning about the industry really for three months because I've been talking to 'cause before like Hollywood was like this. I've been I've lived there for a year to work as a cable wrapper. and then I was like nope, no thank you and and I left. No Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No more raffin cables. This is dumb. Youp: more wrapping cable. but yeah, it's like you read things that these like even I I don't know who said this and I don't want to talk bad about people, right? But I did Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Youp: hear someone say that the Looney Tunes was more of a liability than a a property we want to promote. I'm like, how what a weird way to look at the most beloved franchise ever created, like in the recent like a liability for whom? Like If you just don't know how to market it maybe. Like you know, like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And look at the proof is the proof is Coyote versus Acme. Youp: Eva Coyote Vorsus Acme is proof. And even if you look at the wonderful reviews, well reviews, just watch the day the earth blew up. And when you watch that film and you go, My God, they actually recaptured the Bob Clampettex Avery style. That like the the day the earth blew up, I think, in my opinion, is this is my opinion, and what do I know, right? I'm just one little Dutchman on Instagram, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha ha. Youp: I think the Day the Earth blew up is the greatest thing achieved in animation for a long, long time. Like think think about what other car movie embraces classic cartooning like that so unapologetically. Without without using three D shortcuts, without making it a hybrid with live action. Like just cartooning. Like that's I like I will defend the Day the Earth blew up like I'll probably have that disc next to me because I'm like, that movie gave me hope that there is an audience out there. Do you know what I mean? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah, there is. There is. I try to remind folks, the only reason that you are looking at everything, you know, these 3D 3D shortcuts, and I say that with love. the only reason that they're doing that is because they're making the decisions to show you that. If they wanted to, they could lean into two D animation. And two D animation, once two D animation starts showing that it's monetizable, I guess, it'll make it'll make the proper comeback. But unfortunately that's where we are. Youp: Well, this is what I've recently discovered in my Instagram and I'd love to talk about that because I think it'd be very valuable to anyone wanting to start their own two D studio is that the process is more valuable than the end result. What does the Instagram and YouTube and internet promote? Quick digestible content. Animation is slow. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Youp: if you only post a finished product, you will be you'll disappear. But if you post, hey, these I'm working on the character turnarounds today, and you show Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: your process. Hey, I'm working on a walk cycle. Even the drawings that you discard. Let me go back. Even the drawings that you discard because you think they're no good. Post it because it's content. And that content will feed your algorithm. So people are watching 90% of you making the film. When the film is done, like my short is maybe gonna be five, three minutes, people gonna watch it once and go, cool, and move on. But then at least Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: but but then at least for a year or two they watched me make it. So that's what I what what I think I discovered because when I looked at my analytics, the people were more impressed with the sketches than the final result. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: My thing I I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You know who else says that? Rodgon. Youp: He's on to the same thing. He's discovering the same thing. It's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: that is so uplifting to hear that more people are discovering that. That is so Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. He'll he'll say. He'll say. yeah, it's it's crazy 'cause he'll he'll he'll you know, his his goal is to make this final piece that's absolutely beautiful and rendered wonderfully. And he'll get like, yeah, fifty likes, a hundred likes, but then he like puts Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): up the messy one, the sloppy one with all the lines still on it, and it just goes nuts and it blows up. Youp: gotta tell you what I've so I finished one cartoon where I'm like the eyes are popping out. Like this is my classic cartoon. That one has maybe thirty K in just a few weeks. But the one where it's rough, that one is sitting at 250K and every day it gets a thousand new views. I'm like look at the freaking finished thing but like but then you know who your real audience is Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's what we're working towards. Youp: Like I just finished it. Look at that too, but well. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): All right, let's go back to let's go back to college days or university days 'cause I want to talk about this thesis film. what did you end up going to university for? Youp: I was gonna go to the animation for Sheridan, but I wanted to do 2D, and everyone said 2D is dead, so I was scared and I went Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: to film. And I learned I love filmmaking, but I have trouble being on set. It's too chaotic. I can't plan as much as I like. animation gives you full control. So I went to film and I just decide to be the only and one of the two only animators in the program. And you're like, why'd you come to this school? I'm like, I don't don't know what I'm doing with my life. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That was kind of me too. Everybody wanted to be a gamer and they wanted to do three D and stuff like that. I was like, I can I stay in two D class? I just want to sit here and make like cartoon characters all day. Youp: Pet 2D class. That's awesome. I would have died in that class. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and I want to go say Dan Hampson was the teacher. Dan Hampson and he was such a good teacher. Youp: Remind me 'cause I didn't know it familiar, but who is who is he again? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Dan Hampson, he's I don't know if he ever made it into the industry, but he's a he's a 2D illustrator in in Youp: Okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): he's just outside Chicago. Youp: I see. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and he's got he's got a lot of work out there. I just Youp: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): don't know, I don't think that he ever made it into any of the major studios or anything like that. but he was he drew, he's got he's got He's worked with again, with like advertising marketing firms, you know? When they decide to leverage us, it turns into a good situation. So he's Youp: I I had really good years at marketing agencies. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: Like I was able to like stay afloat for many years Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: with the companies and great people. but like like we talked about before, eventually you're like, you go back to what you loved in your youth, right? Like I I wanna do this. I wanna do this. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And what's funny is the older you get, the more you're just like unapologetically going back to that. Like I don't care. I don't care Youp: I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): what you're doing. I don't care where you're going. I would rather be home drawing. Youp: Once I see a bit more money coming in, I'm buying all my old action figures back, I don't give a crap. I'm gonna devote all all to like old Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hell yeah, dude. Hell yeah, dude. Yeah, those walls are looking kinda bare. You don't Youp: I let's just say I've moved around so much that I'm like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: you know what, I'm done buying things and selling it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): For now, yeah. Youp: I have all my stuff is here somewhere, like my books and stuff, that's what I hold dear to me. But I just I had to like I I I don't like to move with a giant like you haul. So I just Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. No, I get that. That's a lot of stuff to carry. Youp: Yeah. But I'm I'm I'm really happy to hear that you at least had two D class. Like you so you taught you were taught animation or two D animation when you were in school. That's fantastic. That's really, really Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we used Flash to to do the animation. Youp: Mm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. And and the cool thing with Dan, Dan knew that I was all in on the drawing part. He knew I was all in on that style of animation, the style of animation that you're doing. And so he let me lean into that. He let me he knew that I wasn't there for 3D. He just knew it. So he'd let me lean into two D and Youp: Well well apparently wear the oddballs. So when Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: some when a teacher sees, that guy's doing hand drawn okay, I have to kind of now nurture that because it's it's becoming less and less, I feel. Like I think that's why y yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. he's a unicorn. Youp: I think that's why Mike and I gravitated towards each other because I've always dreamed of having a teacher. Like I've never had someone to actually teach me I learned myself with books and watching cartoons frame by frame. That's a surface level learning, right? It's not real learning. Like animation is taught everything. Yep. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I want to understand. Yep. Why that? Youp: Yeah. Why is this many screens not there? Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Why did you do that? Yeah. Why is it why is that line thick here and thin there? Youp: Yep. And all those and you said something beautiful because you see all those little things like why is the line here not there? That is why hand animation is so valuable. There's no computer interpolation that makes an arc perfect. It's every frame has been thought by a person, which is why I think AI will never we've seen some hand 2D stuff, hand drawn stuff in AI. And it looks impressive, I think, for fifty second, no less, ten seconds, because you begin to see, you begin to count the mistakes in your head. And it's just distracting. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: so I've like but if you watch a film like Dumbo or Fantasia, you're constantly in awe because all those decisions were not micro decisions. They were they they were pondered upon for years. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that's what's so thrilling about those movies. you get excited by you get so many questions how they made it. With AI, you're like, they like I th I can I can not say AI AI how I feel with AI, it's not just Chat GPT or Claude. It's more complex than that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Youp: It it is. Like lots of people think, chat G like AI is just prompting something. It is becoming more sophisticated. especially with gaming, coding and filmmaking. So but I'm just talking about like prompting something and it steals something and you pump it out. That's the kind of AI I'm more apprehensive about because there's really no thinking involved in that. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. And that's what I that's what I tell folks. It's it people don't come to see the ruler or the pencils. They come to see the art. And Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and I I'm dealing I'm dealing with some folks that leverage AI in that way, but they're still stuck not stuck, but they're they're leveraging it in a way where it's like, you know, real live action looking people, you know? Youp: Yep. I've seen people trying to figure it out. And this is and and I'll be lying if I said like I don't know a single artist who hasn't thought about can AI be useful for my workflow. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: I've come to the conclusion that for me AI doesn't belong in my cartoons. And I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna make a blanket statement like no one should use it because I don't wanna I don't wanna be on a megaphone telling people what to do. That's not who I am. But for me personally, I spend so much time drawing and thinking and learning how to make it, why cheapen my product with a with with with something that makes it faster? like you know, like I I I I I don't see it being useful for the kind of animation I'm doing because it will just make it look more polished without it being personal, if that makes sense. And right Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: now I think the kind of art I want to be a part of is really highly expressive personal art. That that makes me Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: excited. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. That's one of the things that Rodgon said. damn it. you guys r Youp: He said, Damn it? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah the the you guys, the episode, Rodgon's episode is out today. and there was something that he said about AI and right now it's gone, so we can keep moving. Youp: I'd love to hear it though. So if you need time to think about it, I actually am very curious Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): The Youp: what he said about it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. so we were talking about AI leveraging AI this is it. if you have something that looks absolutely perfect, it gets boring fast. So when you're drawing, there's these little there's these things that your hand does that no one else's hand is going to do. And that's what makes your art and your style yours. And people come to see that. They don't come to see perfection. Youp: yeah, that's a may I add something to that? What I've learned that Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, go for it. Youp: is absolutely correct. Like bo perfect is born, but also because it's entertainment, people want to see struggle. Right? When you watch the Lord of the Rings behind the scenes, you see Peter Jackson struggling to make his vision come to life. That's entertainment. You Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: watch those movies because you know how much work went into it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: What I fear if people leverage convenient tools too much, there is no struggle. There's no story, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: there's no there's no reason. Why should I care about your film? If you made it in an evening by sitting on your butt and and it was all you know what I mean, and you're just pickpocketing Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: from other people. Yeah, you made something impressive, but there's a lot of other impressive stuff out there by artists who actually worked really hard on their art. I'm gonna go look at their art. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I'm not saying that all a art is inherently bad. I personally I I have a lot of personal opinions about it, but Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: for me, I find my time is valuable. And I would rather spend my time looking at art that people struggled to create than Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: someone who made something and said, Here's my prompt list. Pay me 50 bucks and you get my prompt list so you can also make these movies. I'm like, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: like like like you're making AI look even worse than it already looks, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Because you're making it look cheap. And I I don't know if AI is here to stay or not, but if it is here to stay, I at least hope it serves artists in a way that enables them to make more art. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that is authentic, authentic art. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I've been playing with it, trying to see how I can leverage it, like to see if there's a and really the only thing that I've well, there's a couple different ways I've been using it. it's more for for me because I I'm probably a lot like you. There's I want to control the process. I want to control what you see. Youp: Uh-huh. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And so writing a prompt and sending it to AI and then seeing what AI wants to do, it's not Youp: Some wow. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): it's not what I want to do, you know. maybe I can see it where, you know, instead of going to Pinterest or instead of going to Google Images, whatever, I can say, you know, show me this this type of character in this certain position. So then I can use that as reference so I can get my drawings down. But I wanna con Youp: Are you do you get a high Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): hm Youp: from learning from learning stuff? Do you get a high from that? Like do you feel alive? Yeah, right? And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. yeah. Yeah. Youp: like so that's why filmmaking or art is addicting for artists, because we're constantly improving and learning. The moment something comes between that, we're not passionate about what we're making anymore, and it just becomes content. That's my Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: opinion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And I mean it I'm cheap. I'm cheap. A lot Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): like you. not a lot I don't know your financial situation, but you had said earlier something about finances and stuff like that. But it's cheaper to draw. Like instead of sitting there telling telling Chad GPT or whoever, hey, make this character. No like this, no like this, no like this. I would rather just I'd rather just pick up the pencil and do it. Youp: You y you know what my friend taught me? If you ask AI to draw a circle or like whatever, it's it's it i it goes through a million no's like that's not a circle, that's not a circle, that's not a circle. Until Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: it finally figures out what a circle is. That's not how human beings learn. That's not we're like he he said to me, it was really fun, he said, do you you don't teach someone how to draw a circle by telling them all the shapes that are not a circle? I thought that Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Just draw this. Youp: was so clever. Because AI made graphics cards so expensive, right? They're almost unaffordable now. What the what does 3D animation need to make 3D animation? Graphics cards. So rendering and everything is becoming more expensive. My files in Blender, because they're 2D, they're teeny tiny. I can render everything out in less than 10 minutes. So and and so now if I had to send you my whole animated film, like say it's an hour, I can send it and you can download it no problem and it's not a lo bloated giant three D file with all these assets you have to import. It's it it's almost like gorilla filmmaking again before cartoons. You can just take the file and work on it on the train and your whole movie is there. It's really exciting. It's really exciting. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about your process. How does how do you how do you come up with an idea and then how do you start breaking it down and moving into Blender? Youp: Maj artistic process or my blender process? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Your artistic process. Youp: Let me think. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Do you sit in a room dark room with like music playing and you're kicking around ideas? Or do you just like walk around with a notebook and then you experience life and you're like taking notes down and Youp: No. on the fourth what I've learned, and I don't mind sharing this, but I realized early in late in my life that I'm on the spectrum. If that makes sense. so it's very difficult for me to not think about things. So I'm always thinking about my art film, constantly. Like when I'm making Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, same. Youp: a sandwich, brushing my teeth. So I'm always creating Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: in my head. I'm even editing in my head or designing in my head. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Trying different things, Youp: So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah. Youp: yeah. So when I sit down to draw, I it's like a vomit. I d I draw, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I draw and thumbnail and write very quickly. And then I'm done and I'm done for the day and I go relax and so I I don't sit in a room for hours like pondering and I that doesn't come natural to me. And it's the way my brain works. I I learn to accept the way my brain works. By not by like so what I do now for my creative process, I've learned how to do this through books, like write down steps. I'm a very big planner now. So I use planning software like Osana and Notion and I make Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: I break down the tasks, subtles. So I spend like I s once a week I just plan my whole week. So I can just work the whole week. Even when I'm not in the mood, I realize I planned, I scheduled two hours for this, I have to do it. so for Blender, once I draw everything on paper, I started that again because I realized that's where my creativity lies. It's in paper and physical stuff, like clay. me too. Me too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. I'd draw better on paper. Mm-hmm. Youp: Because you're slower, right? You're not you're not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: undoing things and you're not copying and twisting drawings, you're you're focused on. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And the f to me, the feel of it is just way cooler. It just feels my god, yeah. Youp: Sound of the paper. Sound of a nice pencil and a piece of frame. it's it's that's it that's some ASMR I can listen to all night. Just like so when I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a channel idea. Youp: use Blender, I'm actually I don't feel like I'm creative on Blender. I'm the technician, I'm executing work. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: I I'm actually in Blender very little of the time unless I'm executing work. But the planning and the creativity is all on paper, and then you can take a picture, put it into Blender, and use it as reference. Like my my Blender file, it's your Blender file is infinite because it's a 3D program. So you can just it's infinite. So imagine having an infinite canvas. So in that corner of my infinite canvas, I have references, live references for animation and Moibridge breakdowns of how people walk. Then I have my sketches that go back months ago. It's all in the same file. So when I'm drawing, I'm like, how do how did that person do that again? Instead of stopping to work and opening up YouTube, it's all in my blend file. So it it it it's like a sandbox. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's so smart. Youp: so and so you'll never stop working. So and here's the best part. Let's say you have character designs that you've done and you're animating, all your turnarounds are in Blender, all your animation tests are in Blender. Your whole film, even the pre-production, is in Blender. There is no more separate files. it's it's the best. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): that sounds wonderful. Like how hard how hard is it for you to do like concepting and stuff like that in Photoshop? Photoshop Youp: Heart. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): would be crazy cool if we had like a reference panel on the side or we can have stuff on the outside, you know. Youp: I think I think you can jig it, but like I have never gotten into Photoshop as a I I use it a lot for my cartoons and work, but I every time I use it, that's when I get blocked. I think it's because there's so many brushes. the the the layout bothers me, I'm changing the layout, you know what I mean? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's the thing. That's the thing. Like I've used so many, so many, and I have so many Photoshop brushes and I use three of them. I use three Youp: I didn't need Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): of them. Youp: I spent so much time like, this is a nice brush. That's good for this. Never use it. Very never use it. but that's what I love about pencil and paper, and what I'm learning from people like Dave Woodman, Mike Bovani, and and Joey Caps is that when you're with paper and pencil, there's no barrier. It's you and your creativity. And I feel no matter what program you use, even Blender, even Blender is a barrier. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Youp: Because you have to set up the file. You know, like you have to. so I hope that even though things are becoming easier to animate and automate and whatever, I hope a lot more artists are seeing I'll do my ideation on paper and my execution on the computer instead of doing Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. Youp: everything on the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: do you feel you get fatigued looking at a screen? Me too. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: I get a headache and so if you work on paper and a and a screen it's less fatiguing for you can work longer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And and I don't know if anybody knows this, but if you have a sketchbook and a pencil, like you don't ever have to plug it in. Youp: Dude, what? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ever. I promise. Youp: You know, I've been I've been trying to find the save button and the undo button on my pieces of paper, but I can't locate them. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, all then. The the undo button, the undo button is dislocated from the device itself, from the from the wireless handheld device. Yeah. It looks a lot like this. You see? That's the undo button right there. Youp: Is that an apple product? Like is that is is there my god. I I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's kind of an apple product. It's kind of an apple product. It's a it's it's called the I erase. Youp: And what's wonderful too, 'cause we were talking about tools. And I love talking to you about this because I can see you're genuinely excited about it. Usually when with like past people I'm like, Look this pencil, they're like, Cool, you but now I'm f now I'm finding people that are and that's so so fun. You can Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): no no I have I have my favorite pencil. I used to work at Leo Burnett and he was Youp: No way. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): yeah, he was he was really big at Youp: I can't see it, you know what? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ideating with pencils and stuff, and then he he had this certain type of pencil made and I found them online and I can buy I have a stupid amount of Leo Burnett pencils. Youp: wow. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: I I just got into the Black Wings, because they're fantastic. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got a couple of those around here. Youp: I'm getting really into Tom Tomboys, which are fantastic. There's the awesome pencil that Aaron Blaze uses. That's the Mitsubishi 8B pencil. He he champions that pencil. Like, I love this pencil. So that's the thing. If you the part the fun thing about hand-drawn tools, there's so many tools. There's different pens, there's dip pens, there's brushes. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: it's very intimidating to learn these. Like I'm learning dip pens right now for Inktober. But it's it I feel if you learn that I'm creative without a machine, you your confidence grows. Does that make sense? Like you you you Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Youp: feel like you you're not you're not a a a person who can only make art with a computer. You can make art Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: without Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: And then you can learn those skills you've learned by being disciplined and being traditional Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: to to to force software like Blender to meet your style. Because Blender, when you when you when people looked at Blender, they said it it's good for 3D and grease pencil is good for annotation. That's it. People like Daniel Martinez Lara was strong Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): But you can't you can't give creative people tools like that. Youp: gave them people tools and they and they they break it. They break it so they can make rounds up. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's true. Youp: I like breaking things. It's fun. Breaking things to me it's fun. Like you like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. If you're breaking it for the right reasons, yeah. Yeah, break it. Youp: Yeah, like I and that's what I really care. May I talk about this for a second? About sweet, thank you, appreciate Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): we can talk about whatever you want. Yeah. Yeah. Youp: it. What I like about the great Gus is it started as a pitch package so I could be hired at a studio. But then when I met my heroes, they all said, Good luck, they're not doing 2D right now. You'll just be standing in line. I'm like, God. So I got really I got really depressed again because I'm like, well, who am I making this for? Then I'm like, for myself. So I abandoned the pitch package route and I'm just making the film now. And the moment I started doing that, I gained numerous supporters, a producer like Sigi Kaham Report, who I was in university with, he's now producing. Helping me with like putting the story together and the funding. I have help with social media now. I have now an animation teacher. So and now it's an ecosystem of okay, we're we're now care we care about the same thing. How can we now make how can we now find funding? How can we now support this system to give the people what they clearly want, which is classic cartoons? And what I care about most of all is I hope. Even if I get hit by a bus tomorrow and I don't finish my film, it doesn't matter because I shared most of the process. So someone can just look at what I've done and just pick it up. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Someone will be able to Yeah. Youp: and I believe that's how we bring back classic cartooning. Not by big Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One hundred percent. Youp: yeah, not by I'm the guy gonna bring it back. It's giving the tools to the community so we can all work together to bring and I'm not saying everyone has to make classic cartoons, make any cartoons you want. As long as they're As long as they're you, as long as they're highly expressive and they're you. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Youp: So th that's so now I kinda yeah, I kinda think the Great Gust has become almost like a proof of concept for can a turn my terrace type studio that Bob Clampin and Tex Avery worked on exist online? Like I I my my voice actor, Johnny Selesi, I've been working with him for ten years, even with Napoleon, he was the voice of Napoleon. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Shout out to him. He was fun to see you guys collab on some posts. That's really cool. Youp: All usually what I've learned, I don't know how modern companies make cartoons. I don't because I've never worked, but I've learned that the script was done, the voice recording, and then so it's very separated, it's very siloed. But I showed Johnny the script in some drawings, and he went on a tangent, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: and that's what Mel Blanc did. He looked at something and he's he just made up his own characters and his voices, and the animators are like, my god, this is gold. So I I I I I I and that's why I'm I get so sad when voice actors are getting less and less work because of AI, because voice actors are more than just people who speak into a camera. They have ideas, they're actors, also filmmakers in their own right. And if you untap that, it can change your whole film. so I've learned that too. And Michael Ferguson, who's a composer, I basically said to him, Write your dream music that you always wanted to make. So he looked at my storyboards, which were rough, and he made something. And I'm like, it's fantastic. Now I can tweak my storyboards to match his music, match the beat, and do proper Mickey Mousing instead of animating first and then a composer tries to match everything to the music, which is the standard now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Yeah. But now Michael and Johnny are free to be creators in their own right, because I'm not directed. I'm just saying do what want. And Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: the result just skyrockets, right? Because everyone's having fun. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And everyone feels invested in it. Youp: Everyone feels invested in it. Yes, and that's why I don't believe that the old traditional directors, you know, the directors who are like sitting on a throne barking orders. that may have worked in the nineteen forties when they had all the money, but for independent creators, you need to trust your other independent creators to do the best work they can. So the worst thing you can do as a director is saying, act like how I'm acting. Draw like how Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha. Youp: I'm drawing. Because then no one's like then everyone's just doing the art and they can't wait to get back to their own project. But if you say, No, this is your project too now, you get a hundred percent of their loyalty and their enthusiasm. It's right. It's really f it's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. And sometimes and sometimes it makes a project better. That's Youp: Always. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I I work with some actors, and I'm working on a project right now with one and I wrote the script and I sent it to him and I said, you know, it's supposed to be funny, blah blah blah. This is the feeling, and we had the conversation and all the things and he came back and he's like, This is you know, I I keep I keep Not struggling, but I don't feel this couple of lines here, like can I can I adjust it to who and then yeah, of course. Adjust it. Youp: You can't be an expert at everything. You can't be an expert at acting, music, editing. Like the director can't. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: You bring in people that are better than you in a way Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: to and you just give people ideas and a rough structure and they fill in the rest. that's how I've made films and cartoons and I've never changed. I've because it's just I get more satisfaction from people enjoying the projects I'm working on than the feeling that I'm in charge or this is my film. I feel if you say this is my film, my way or the highway, it's a very lonely uphill battle to make your movies. Right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And at the end of the day at the end of the day people aren't gonna wanna work with you. Youp: Yeah, right. Like word of mouth. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Cause if you're just a if you're just a jerk, right? Like back when I was in Hollywood, I'd get interviewed for jobs and stuff like that. And they'd always say, you know, you seem like a super happy guy. And I'm like, Yeah, Youp: Yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): because we're gonna be together for over forty hours. I was working when I was in Hollywood, I was working for like a hundred hours a week. You know what makes a hundred hours a week suck? Having to work a hundred hours a week with someone who's a real jerk. Youp: Or or or or puts down every idea you have because they're the professional. I've had that happen Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: so many times where I'm like, I have a great idea and it's like, Well, you're only twenty-five, so you know, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: like I've had that happen too. But again, when we talk about the joy of creating, like for the first time in my life I actually am so motivated to do what I'm making because I'm not making it for a profit. I'm not trying to prove something. To a co to a boss. I'm not trying to please stockholders. I'm making a cartoon, and now I get to make cartoons with someone like Mike Pulvani who's gonna show me how to do it. And what's so fantastic is that I get to like, hey, I made this thing, and he goes, have you tried it like this? And he's coming from lineage from like working with Chuck Jones, Dale Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: Bear, and he so and and and and Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's wisdom there. Youp: wisdom that is the future of our culture or filmmaking. It because because if no one if there's a wall okay, let me talk about this for one second 'cause I'm passionate about this. In what I've learned from Mike Bovani and other really great animators is that animation people from Disney or Looney Tunes were learned through an apprenticeship program or a mentorship. So you were the assistant to an animator and you learned how the animator worked. And you did their breakdowns or in betweens or whatever. But now everything is online and no one's making two D really anymore. So it's all segregated. So it's it's a lot more difficult now to funnel that knowledge into a new generation. I made the mistake of being like, I just need to read the animator survival guide and two books and I can do animation. No no. It's a it's a whole it's a it's not a I would say it's it's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This is the beginning. Youp: It's a way of work. It's a way Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that's a roadmap. Youp: Yeah. Yeah. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's not the journey, that's the roadmap. Youp: Yeah. And and and the I was very shocked when I'm like, dear, I haven't even begun learning yet. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I know, I know. Youp: yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Animators survival kit and The Illusion of Life by the Disney's over there. Two of the best two D animation Youp: Yeah, by Ollie Johnson Ollie Johnson crank. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): books ever. Youp: But Mike actually brought me to another one that usually gets overlooked, and that's Preston Blair's book. we I've learned that the animator survival kit is a technical guide, how to do animation. But if you want to learn about the soul of cartooning, I think Preston Blair is the winner. Because he if you look at his stuff, then you'll be able to understand swash and stretch more authentically in the nineteen forties. Because Preston Blair is one of the great, great, like classic cartoony animators, right? R Richard Williams was a student of those people. but Preston Blair was one of the originals. So it's it's interesting. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: It's very they're both extremely valuable, but they give different perspectives on cartooning. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Trying to see yeah, the cartoon animation. I might have that book. I think I do. The elephant with the mice. Youp: It's you you it's it's pretty it's funny. Yeah, it's I have this version. I don't have the proper version, I'm trying to hunt it down. But I have the one with the elephant. it's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Youp: it's really excellent it's really excellent. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Tune animation. I have to look. If I don't have that downstairs, I'm gonna definitely follow up and get that. Youp: May I recommend another book that I think you would love? And that was the book Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Tell me. Youp: Mike Bull Martin direct showed me. that was let me get it because I am really bad with it's right here, really bad with names and with animation from script to screen. So Mike was like, You gotta read this book. And it's from Seamus Cole Hain. And he worked with the nine old men. And he was the animator for the Fox in Pinocchio. He did the march home with the dwarves. He animated all the dwarves. And he's one of those kind of forgotten great Disney not even Disney, just an animator of artist in his own right. And he his book, Animation from Script to Screen, I read it in three days. It's it's a gold mine, not just how to animate, but how to think like an animator, how to work, processes, everything. it's Life changing book. It's out of print, so I hope you can find it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Writing or I'm I'm taking a note of that. Youp: It is Seamus Cole Hain. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: C U L H A N E. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's very cool. let's touch on your thesis film, Blown Apart. Youp: Nope. Bonaparte was my web series, the magic lantern was my thesis, my stop motion. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What was it called? Youp: The magic lantern. That was my thesis. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Taking notes. Youp: yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How similar was your process back then to how you are animating and making animated films today? Youp: I didn't have a process. It was horrible. it was it was hell on earth. I decided to make a twenty minute stop motion film and animated by myself. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): twenty minutes of animation. Youp: Twenty minutes, twenty-four frames per second, eighteen, twelve. I had multiple characters. The film suffers from the classic problem beginner filmmakers make is they're trying to tell too much in a short story. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Youp: So the story has in my opinion there are great scenes in that short, but I fell into that classic trap of telling too much instead of figuring out a more simple story. And the worst part is because I animated by myself, I took a I I I cancelled all my classes in in Ryerson or Metropolitan. I hate I don't remember the name. they they picked a very long name, their fault. but but I I I realized I couldn't make my film unless I worked on it eight hours a day. So I did only one class and I would only show up to one class a week. The rest I worked six, seven days a week. And because of animation or stop motion, you have to be in the dark. I was in the dark eight hours a day. I didn't see sunlight. My eyesight got destroyed. I now have negative nine, negative eight because of the LED, the flickering. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep, that'll do it. Youp: I developed kidney stones 'cause of stress. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Vitamin D differenti like Youp: all the all the ailments. That film gave me all the ailments. So by the by the time I was doing the festival run, I was like nervous wreck. And then when Leica was like, do some exercises and we'll think about the P I I can't. I can't. I can't do any so I would love to do stop motion again now that eight years have passed. But at the time I was like, I can't even look at another puppet. 'Cause I overdid it and I hope people who are making films, I hope they take warning from that not to let your excitement carry away and make Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: something that you I I finished the film. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Start small, start slow, develop that process Youp: Yeah, like not Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): first. Youp: Yeah, so now the way I now when I make a new project like Blown Apart or my new film, I'm like, okay, is it the exact opposite of how I made Magic Lantern? If the answer is yes, I'm on the right track. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Then keep doing that. Yeah. Youp: I did everything. Well I didn't have it I I wasn't in animation school, so I made the pipeline for stop motion out of thin air. And we did three D printing like Leica, I three D printed faces, made my own sets, we got lots of people, but like I said, the film suffers because it follows that classic problem of beginner filmmakers being like, It's a feature, right? And it's no Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: it's a You know? So a lesson learned was a valuable lesson, but painful one, but it was a lesson. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. But those are the things like you have to Growing up, I played baseball. A lot of baseball. A lot of baseball. You can't expect yourself to get on the pitcher's mound and throw a baseball 85-90 miles an hour, your first try. It's not gonna happen. You need to practice. You need to get out there. If you're gonna be an animator, you need to practice. If you're gonna be a filmmaker, you need to practice. Your first one. Not not a lot of people make a first film that's just like you nailed it. Youp: Yeah. I I've I've yes Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So make it, get it out the way, make another one, get that one out the way, make another one, get that one out the way. Youp: Yeah. But you're so right, and it's very intelligent that you said that, like you need to kind of throw grow a thick skin. But the the not the problem, but a lot of people are like, I spent thirty K on my film and it sucked. And now I'm in debt and now I don't know what to do, right? But Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: that's why like open source tools like now you don't have to go into debt to make like I s I've spent zero dollars. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You guys blender is amazing. Youp: Yeah, well the only thing I spend money on is books and paper. I didn't and I've been using Blender since COVID. So imagine if I was using Toon Boom all that time. How much Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, for real. Youp: money I would have sunked into that. So I have to thank the people at Blender, especially Daniel Martinez Lara, because he's developing grease pencil and now he's developing something new, which is clay pencil, which is You can turn a grease pencil into a clay. So you can make claymation with your it's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): let's go said Youp: and and I'm like, there are so many exciting tools and everyone's like AI AI AI AI. Just look for a second at Blender. I also for fun did VR animation in Blender. I I made some Muppet style puppets in Blender. You can do anything. It doesn't the Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Blender's amazing. Youp: It I I th I have it I have the this wanna sound like a mad scientist, but I hope Blender will conquer the world one day. I every child Blender on their computer. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They're trying. They're trying, dude. They're trying. They they're it Youp: And they're succeeding. They're succeeding. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I agree. And and and even more importantly coming from, you know, I come from the inner city and everything, you know, money has always been an issue. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. So having access to any of these tools, it's invaluable. Youp: It it it's beyond invaluable because a normal person would say, Well, software licenses is one to three percent of your budget. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: So if you have a sixty million dollar budget and you have a studio that's nothing. But if you're an independent creator and you have ten K, that one point three percent can pay for another animator or an artist. Or you can simply buy more time and make your film better. Like I like never snuff at a one percent or two percent or three percent if you're an independent filmmaker. Every percent is is valuable. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well. If you Youp: I love talking to you. It's it's it's great. I really appreciate it. It's I'm having a lot of fun. It's good. It's good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, no, this is important. it's important because if you're looking if you wanna if you're a young 2D animation filmmaking hopeful, it's important to understand that there are solutions to all the problems that you're thinking of. Youp: yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and you have to be dumb enough to succeed. You have to Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you have to be like, Okay, yeah, this is kind of easy. Okay, fine. It's not kind of easy, but you know, okay. Just get into it and keep your feet moving. Keep drawing, Youp: I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): keep animating. Youp: Build on top of that because what you said is like incredibly beautiful. To build on top of that is I used to believe that I was almost embarrassed that I never worked on a major cartoon or film and I called myself a filmmaker. Like, But you know what? Now that things are kind of coming full circle, I'm kinda glad because I found my own pipeline and own processes that haven't been tainted by dictated software or dictated by made my own way of making stuff. And I believe if I would have went maybe to CalArts, if they would have accepted me and made films, I would be less inclined to to research new ways of making things. I'm constantly looking for new tools or new updates. Or Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Youp: what's so wonderful about Blender is that people are making plu add-ons and plugins. Like I wanna give a shout out to Mo Moritz Volk because he was actually the person that made me go, I can finally start posting because he made blender brushes that feel like pencils. Before the blender brushes were a bit too v vector like for me and I couldn't get that natural cartooning look. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: Then the moment he and he gave these brushes away for free. For free. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ooh. Are they still available? Youp: they're still available and he has many other products. He I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): All right, cool. I'm gonna pick your brain later then. Youp: no you can Yeah he he he he I believe he worked at Lucasfilm and he's done great stuff and he's a big Blender supporter. So I'm very grateful for him because Upy tunes has that line quality thanks to what he has done in Blender. And he's gave it for free because of the goodness Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And it's a Youp: of his art and he promotes the art for Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And and thank you to him, because he accomplished and Blender as well has accomplished everything that I asked. I was I was really into flash and flash development. I worked on so many, so many huge projects. Huge projects. Youp: Yeah. I would love to know which ones they are. You sound I wanna know more about your career. Maybe like some other time we can talk, but I I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. Youp: really wanna know. Like that 'cause I was looking at your dream books. my god. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've I've worked on I've worked on Disney films. I worked on Harry Potter stuff, like or websites. Websites. Yeah. Youp: Doesn't matter. It's it's still it's still great stuff that you made that people consumed. It's a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: you know, like I've done websites too, not what you've done, but a website's an art form too, right? It is. I like navigation and yeah, yeah, it is. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. crap, what were you talking about just now? Youp: He worked on a lot of stuff. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And I'm so I was I was at a conference and I got to talk to the product manager and all the developers of Flash or of it was animate at the time. and I said, Is there any way you guys can please give me a brush that looks and feels like a pencil? I don't want my animations vectory. I don't want it. Like I appreciate what you guys are doing, but I need the feel of this pencil, the look of this pencil. And so for Youp: Yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you to say that it's available in Blender, thank you, Blender. Youp: It's a game changer. It's a game changer. And I hope Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: that Blender the developers catch on to their now gaining the two D community. So hopefully we're gonna see Photoshop type brushes, like watercolor brushes and chalk brushes and so all that all that yummy stuff where we can just make you I there is one Blender artist who makes watercolor paintings in Blender. I forget her name. She's fantastic. I have to look it up that she she's There's lots of people making really cool stuff in Blender and now that all these different artists have been working and they're getting noticed because Blender is really hot right now, like the topic, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Youp: everyone is seeing the ecosystem that's been created in the past decade. So I what I've hoped to have contributed is I believe Blown Apart is the first web series ever made in Blender that's episodic. I believe. I'm not the first one to do 2D. That there's way people who were done it way before, but I'm talking about episodic with one character. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Youp: And I hope that now we can prove that Blender is ready for classic cartooning, like high quality classic cartooning. I I I think it's ready. I Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm ready I'm ready to follow you to lead the charge. Let's go. Let's go talk all the smack we want. Let's go. Let's do it. Youp: Should just make cartoons. yeah. yeah. It's freeing. It's totally Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a really good a really good friend of mine runs he created and he runs Blender Market. Blender Market.com. Yeah, those are and CG cookie C his another one of his CG cookie is one of his too. Youp: I I I visited that place. CG Cookie, yeah. we run CG cookie? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm. Wes Burke. Wes Burke. He's Youp: I love you. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): he's a he's a really good friend of mine. Yeah. Youp: okay, now we do have more stuff to talk about. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha ha. Youp: that's what's so great about Blender. You can do hyper realistic animation, stylized 3D like Spider-Verse, you can do cell shaded 3D animation like make it look cartoony, like in Coyote Zacme, and then you can do classic cartooning. Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Youp: what a package. And they don't like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And then you can mix them all together. Youp: Well that's what I do. I I you remember the Popeye cartoons, how they put like a Popeye cell behind a actual background, like an actual stop motion background with like sets? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: You can just blender. Model it, texture it, put a you can make your own Popeye card. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So wild. It's so cool. Youp: It it's and this is what I'm trying to say. it is very tough for the people like animators right now. It's really tough. But also I hope that they can see that the tools have never been better and more accessible in the history of animation. Like like if we think about the historical 'cause I I like to think in history, right? What happened in the nineteen seventies with the Don Bluth walkout and if we look now at the digital revolution, like Now everyone can open up their own Dom Blue Through Bakshee Studio. You don't need a client. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. This is the democratization of entertainment and of the only thing we ever needed from the studios, honestly, maybe a couple of project managers to keep the wheels rolling cause artists get derailed. Youp: we get yes, I can speak for that. Yes. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. But then past that we need distribution. Okay, well, now we have YouTube, we have Vimeo, we have Instagram, we have TikTok, we have Facebook, we have Youp: Well th that's what's so fantastic and and and my time in marketing and working with social media campaigns for actors and stuff. I thought, man, I'm not cartooning, but now I'm using all that knowledge for my cartooning. So I will also be in the future making a little package anyone can download this to how can I get my art shown? Like what are the things Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): cool. Youp: yeah. Right, so not every the that should all listen if the art and the tools are free, so should the knowledge of how to promote yourself. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I mean if you want to keep your Youp: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): chi clear Youp: And and also if you want to see more cartoons, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Exactly. Youp: There's so many great cartoonists and filmmakers who are just not being discovered because they haven't figured out the algorithm yet. So Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And there's a lot of people that just don't want to do social media 'cause social media is all up in your business. Everybody's all up in your business. Youp: I really understand that. And I and I've talked to some people who are like, I don't like social media. I'm like, then find someone who does, so you can do your art and partner with someone who gets it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: It's like like like like that's how you get your art out there or your course out Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: there, name like and here's the thing: there are many social media experts who make a business out of it, right? partner with someone who just started their social media business. Right? Like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. Youp: like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Or hire your kid. Your kid is on social media, hire him. Put to work. Youp: You're actually so right. You're actually so right. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. You wanna you wanna iPhone? All right, cool. We're gonna get you an iPhone, but you're running dad's animation social media. Youp: Well I hope I then I might be careful when I have children one day to not start like child labor in my studio. we just see we see a honey, we need another child. I need another social media. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): There's a little bit of child labor that's still there's a little bit of child labor that's still legal. There's a little bit. Youp: I'm pushing all these all other twist looking kids like taking pictures of our animation. man, man. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Then then then, you know, if they don't do their work you can send them you can send to their room. Go to your room. Do all the social media, Youp: Yeah. And learn to draw. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): dammit. Youp: What what do you room and draw? But Dad I'm joking, I don't condone that. Obviously unhinged cartoonist humor. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, yeah. How did you learn grease pencil? Youp: By hitting my head against a screen for a year. No, I'm sorry. I'm not kidding. It wasn't Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Get in their knowledge. Get in there. Youp: Yeah, it wasn't a ho it was a horrible uphill battle, but there are some wonderful, wonderful tutorials out there. CG Hitchhiker has released her tutorials on YouTube, unlike the basics of Grease Pencil. the then like I said before, Pepe Land has probably Also, a vibe like I learned Grease Pencil from him, because he made his first animated short in Grease Pencil to prove Grease Pencil is good for 2D animation. He proved it. and then we have other great like content creators and online animators making gorgeous, gorgeous stuff. You just have to look at the line, like Grease Pencil artists, and you'll be blown away with what people Who people I've looked up to for years. Like, man, if they made Blender work for their style, maybe one day I can too. Because that's the point. You have to find your own style, right? You can't just copy you know the people you you have to find your own way. And I I have to say, after eight years of working in Blender, I've only been working on classic cartooning for a year. But now I finally figure I'm just I haven't even found my style yet, I'm just playing with it. You'll notice my avatar is changing all the time. Like first I was a nerdy little guy with glasses and now I'm Napoleon. Like I'm I'm trying to figure out where my voice is. But I'm just having fun. Like there's no marketing team behind me like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Youp: figuring like I'm mar I'm having fun with my own promotion. If I wanna be Napoleon, I can be Napoleon. No one's gonna stop me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And and all that stuff that you've been sharing, all of that helps us connect with you. And we w now now because you're doing something so cool and you're sharing and and and I wanna see you finish this animation. I wanna be a maybe even be a part of it. Not not like animating or whatever, but like whether buy a t shirt or buy some stickers or you know do the Patreon, I don't know how you're raising money, but Youp: I I can say this because