Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 38: Krish Nagar on building a career in alternative culture; Angela Nicholson chats OM System PEN

Transcript

38: Krish Nagar on building a career in alternative culture; Angela Nicholson chats OM System PEN · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:09
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast.
• 0:13
  David McClelland: It's me, David McClelland.
• 0:14
  David McClelland: It's November 2026 already.
• 0:16
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 0:17
  David McClelland: Coming up on today's show.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Dark, gloomy, gothic, grungy, all of all of the above, you know, they're the paintings that I used to love to look at the most, you know, heavily influenced by people like I mean, you can't get away from Rembrandt in this in this industry or the art world, right?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was an absolute master, but Francesco Goya, you know, the just the how how dark and how saturated uh those paintings were.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: The bulk of the work I did for about seven or eight years is is pretty homed in on that dark and gloomy sort of look and aesthetic, if you will.
• 0:53
  David McClelland: Photographer Krishnagar joins us today to share his journey from fine art to fearless portraits.
• 1:02
  David McClelland: Tickets for the in-person photography and video show in London are now on sale.
• 1:08
  David McClelland: Try and buy the latest kit and be inspired by the very best photographers and filmmakers, creators and educators in the world.
• 1:16
  David McClelland: Tickets are on sale now from photography show.com, and more details on how you might qualify for free tickets coming up later on.
• 1:25
  David McClelland: A lot to talk about this month, so let's get straight into it with the news headlines.
• 1:33
  David McClelland: Here are your camera news headlines for November 2026.
• 1:37
  David McClelland: Sigma's tiny full-frame camera is back.
• 1:40
  David McClelland: The FP2 arrived six years after the original with 6K open gate video, a tilting screen, and a new partially stacked sensor.
• 1:48
  David McClelland: Sigma says it's the smallest full-frame mirrorless camera in the world, and it's yours for a tiny£1,899 from November the 11th.
• 1:58
  David McClelland: Nikon has a new lens for sports photographers.
• 2:01
  David McClelland: First teased in May this year, the 120 to 300mm F2.8 has a built-in teleconverter that stretches it to 420 mils.
• 2:10
  David McClelland: It weighs in about 2.7 kilos, and it's available to order now with deliveries mid-November for just shy of£14,000.
• 2:19
  David McClelland: At the other end of the scale, Tamron has made a super compact F2.8 zoom lens for a range of crop sensor cameras that weighs in about the same as that of a kit lens.
• 2:29
  David McClelland: The 16 to 50 mil glass also has weather ceiling and weighs a slight 305 grams and has pocket-friendly price to between 400 and 430, depending on your mount.
• 2:43
  David McClelland: And finally, Fujifilm has a new Instax.
• 2:46
  David McClelland: The Mini Evo 2 still features its built-in printer, but now has an oversized touch screen on the back, a hundred combinations of lens and film effects from double exposures to light links.
• 2:57
  David McClelland: It even grabs four seconds of video before you press the shutter.
• 3:01
  David McClelland: About£230 due at the end of November.
• 3:05
  David McClelland: And that is your news for this month's.
• 4:20
  David McClelland: I scaffolding feels like a phrase for what's left of it now, which is a real shame.
• 4:26
  David McClelland: It seems as though that pier's days are becoming increasingly numbered.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: It looks a little more symmetrical.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's still interesting for photography, but you can see some bits.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: You think, oh, I don't remember that bit hanging quite like that last time we were there.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think it's going to be a few anxious months over the over the winter.
• 4:43
  David McClelland: Aaron Ross Powell But I was out on Saturday night as well, actually.
• 4:46
  David McClelland: I was with my kids uh trick or treating on Saturday night.
• 4:49
  David McClelland: It was Halloween as as we recorded.
• 4:52
  David McClelland: And it was also, I get the alerts on my phone whenever there's uh Northern Lights and Aurora Borealis likelihood.
• 4:58
  David McClelland: And I did see some wonderful photos, probably from a little bit further north than where you were in Brighton.
• 5:04
  David McClelland: But it was a lovely clear night on the whole, maybe just a little bit of mist in some places.
• 5:10
  David McClelland: But I can imagine the morning must have been beautiful with the mist that's been around the last few weeks.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yes, it was really lovely.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know how when there's mist, you don't see the sun until it's a little way up, and then suddenly everything starts to go a bit pinky.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's lovely.
• 5:23
  David McClelland: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 5:25
  David McClelland: Well, I mentioned you've been hands-on with some cameras, and that's a huge part of what you do, and we love your insights on those.
• 5:32
  David McClelland: One of those cameras that I want to touch on first of all today is a camera that we led within our news headlines last month, and that is the OM System pen, the first pen under the OM System name.
• 5:47
  David McClelland: Tell me a bit about the camera and then what your what your first reflections were on it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously it's a micro four-thirds camera, so it's got a four-thirds type sensor, twenty million pixels.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it leads really on creativity.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: A bit like the OM3 in some respects.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's got that the the color mode dial.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really like the way OM and Olympus before it kind of tries to give photographers the tools to explore their creativity.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like through the the dials, they do that a bit more effectively these days.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Although I was a bit disappointed that there's just one dial for the colour.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want black and white, you still have to switch to that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas on the OM3, you've got you'd go one way for black and black and white and another for colour.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So little difference there.
• 6:36
  David McClelland: Aaron Ross Powell It's a great size camera as well.
• 6:38
  David McClelland: I've I've seen it.
• 6:39
  David McClelland: I've seen one in the in the flesh, in the in the metal, uh once so far.
• 6:44
  David McClelland: And it's um it looks like a great size.
• 6:47
  David McClelland: How does it feel in the hand?
• 6:48
  David McClelland: How does it feel weight wides wise as well?
• 6:50
  David McClelland: Because it it looks as though it should be very pocketable and something you kind of want to you're not going to have too much of a problem taking with you, no matter what you're doing.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, and I think that's at the core of what uh OM system is is thinking about these days.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's less than 400 grams, so that really is nice and light.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was told it was made from metal.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen other people say that it's actually not.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's some form of plastic.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not 100% sure.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I need to check up.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always easy to tell, actually.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some some plastics are very, very strong and you feel them and they've got that slightly cold feeling.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a really nice-looking camera.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's certainly not heavy.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, it's it's not really chunky.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not one you're gonna slip in your pocket, but it's not gonna take up a lot of space in your in your bag.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And of course the price is just amazing.
• 7:35
  David McClelland: 849 pounds body-only.
• 7:39
  David McClelland: That's uh I mean I I don't know, you you tell me.
• 7:42
  David McClelland: That that feels to me like for a camera with this uh lineage, if you like, with the specs that it's got, it feels really if if not aggressive, certainly quite competitive.
• 7:54
  David McClelland: And it's got some real kind of pro-ish type features as well.
• 7:57
  David McClelland: I mean, I don't know if you would expect the weather weather sealing, and I know you're gonna need a weather-sealed lens to go with it, but that kind of like lifts it up to a a level above where I might expect a camera from OM system of that sort of price to be, perhaps.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, and and and with the kit lens, it's still less than£950.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, when you you sort of think you're expecting to hear a£1,000 somewhere, but it's not.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like you say, it's pretty aggressive uh pricing, very, very attractive.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some people will perhaps buy it as a second camera or a holiday or travel camera.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um but for some people it could be a really fabulous first camera.
• 8:34
  David McClelland: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So you went- you mentioned 20 million pixels there.
• 8:38
  David McClelland: It's the same sensor as the OM5 Mark II, but it's got a few more smarts in terms of the autofocus capabilities.
• 8:47
  David McClelland: And I do see it's got a handheld high-res mode as well that m more than doubles that pixel readout.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's a few manufacturers that do these high-res modes, but it seems to make most sense to me in the lower res cameras, because you know you can suddenly make it like a 50 million pixel camera.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you've got a hundred million pixels, how many pixels do you really want?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how much processing power?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's and it's very effective, actually.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get some really nice sharp images just just hand-holding it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's a tripod mode as well for even more resolution.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: But the the handheld is is very effective.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: You do find yourself sort of hanging around a bit waiting for it to process.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about you, but I'm increasingly impatient with my cameras.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh you expect everything to be instant these days.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that is that is a trade-off.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to wait a few seconds before you can take your next picture.
• 9:39
  David McClelland: I guess when you're talking about fifty million pixels, there is a bit of processing that is going to be necessary in there.
• 9:47
  David McClelland: So that's quite understandable.
• 9:49
  David McClelland: Uh I was taking a look at your review on SheClicks.
• 9:52
  David McClelland: We'll talk about uh SheClicks website in uh in a moment.
• 9:55
  David McClelland: But uh you you did mention one or two niggles, one of which was the power switch.
• 9:59
  David McClelland: I I made a note of here that it was a little bit too easy to knock that.
• 10:04
  David McClelland: I guess that's a bit of ergonomic um teething problems, I suppose, with this format.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yes, that's right.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I kept finding myself going to video mode, which is quite annoying, usually.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: You just push it too far and you're in video mode.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's I I thought sometimes you do that the first time you get a camera and you you you know it takes you five, ten minutes to get used to it.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But this I did quite consistently.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a bit frustrating.
• 10:27
  David McClelland: Aaron Ross Powell So a hit, we think, for OM System.
• 10:30
  David McClelland: It certainly has been very popular.
• 10:32
  David McClelland: And reading around and taking a look on on a few news outlets, they're talking about the fact that it's been back ordered in Japan, that it seems to have done very well with regards to pre-orders uh elsewhere in in Europe, certainly.
• 10:44
  David McClelland: Uh so overall, kind of a thumbs up for this.
• 10:48
  David McClelland: I I'm feeling I I know that I feel as though I want to spend some time with this camera.
• 10:52
  David McClelland: And you know, I I use I use other systems of cameras, but uh and I have I I've never owned an OM system or an Olympus before that before.
• 11:01
  David McClelland: But there's something about the price, the packaging, the the cut the kind of capabilities and the favorable responses from people like yourself who have had some hands-on time with this camera that are are really making me feel quite attracted to it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I tend to talk about on the workshops is about getting I'm not about getting the image right, but trying to get your vision in camera because that's, you know, you've got the opportunity to make changes there.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's you get pulled into your photography and it's a more mindful way of working, rather than going back, you know, downloading your images and then sort of tweaking away for ages and you know, cropping to get a square image and all that sort of stuff.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got it in camera, then it's just part of the pleasure of doing it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of know you're in the right direction.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You might go back and think, actually, you know what, I've shot that in black and white, but I'm going to make it colour now.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But at least you've had the chance to visualize what you wanted and you can make decisions there and then when you've got a chance to make changes.
• 12:01
  David McClelland: So that's the OM system pen, as we said,£849 body only, 100 quid on top of that, if you want the kit lens as well.
• 12:09
  David McClelland: Of course, one thing that isn't obvious from the front of the OM system pen is the fact that it does does have a kind of rangefinder style viewfinder in the top corner.
• 12:19
  David McClelland: Digital.
• 12:21
  David McClelland: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:21
  David McClelland: But switching over to the other camera that I want to talk to you about today, the NICON Z52C, that is notable by the complete and utter absence of the viewfinder.
• 12:35
  David McClelland: So talk to me about the difference between the Z52 and what the Z52C import uh a capital C, I think we should put it there.
• 12:45
  David McClelland: Just talk to me about the main differences between these two cameras.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you you've already covered the first one is the lack of a viewfinder, and that's probably the biggest point that most people that will divide opinion, I think.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there'll be people who don't mind or don't even w know why there would be one, and there are people who would just never buy a camera without a viewfinder.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 24.5 million pixels on a full frame sensor, which is really nice.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you get much more the um well you get shallower depth of field at any given aperture than you would say with the the um pen that we were just talking about.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got much more control over the depth of field.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's probably the same sensor as in in the Z63.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know for certain, but I suspect- I I think it probably is because it's a stacked, partially stacked sensor.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that means that the readout is faster.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just about being able to fire off images really quickly, which you can.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think is it uh 30 frames a second?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, 30 frames a second with the electronic shutter.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you know you can really fire off a lot of images, but it's more about the readout speed, um, which means you get less um jello effect, you know, when you when you're moving the camera around.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: You get um the autofocus will be more responsive.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of subject detection, it's more responsive because you've got faster communications going on.
• 13:59
  David McClelland: And on the autofocus, the headline that I saw many journalists report on was uh some of the uh subject detection capabilities within the Z52C.
• 14:10
  David McClelland: Uh the first NICON, I I don't know if it's other brands, but the first NICON with fish AF.
• 14:16
  David McClelland: Tell me, why do I need autofocus for fish, Ang?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a very good question.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I mean if you like go if you've got an aquarium, perhaps.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think maybe anglers.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people who like to catch fish and stuff and get a photo like that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you know that that that's but do they focus on the fish generally or do they focus on them?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they'll be able to get fish in focus.
• 14:40
  David McClelland: So I and uh I mean on a serious point, bringing some of this stuff together, then it is a full-frame sensor, like you say, and there isn't the viewfinder on there, which means that f uh you need to be more intentional with your focusing, particularly if you are shooting outdoors and you are trying to get someone with a nice blown-out background holding a fish and you know the the the kind of 30 centimeters difference between how I'm holding my I don't know what I've caught.
• 15:08
  David McClelland: Some some animal perch, okay, little perch that I've caught and my eyes.
• 15:14
  David McClelland: That's the kind of area where you would think of viewfinder if you are ri really wanting to get super crisp focus and you are being intentional about what you're focusing on would be super important.
• 15:24
  David McClelland: And that, like you say, is that big that big difference that the C brings you.
• 15:29
  David McClelland: It's that lack of viewfinder there.
• 15:32
  David McClelland: The other thing though, that it does bring you is a cheaper price.
• 15:35
  David McClelland: I'm seeing$13.49 body only versus the well, the the Z52, which is actually I don't have a price down here, but if I remember, it's a good couple of hundred quid more expensive, I think, for that.
• 15:48
  David McClelland: Um so who is this for then?
• 15:52
  David McClelland: Who is this for?
• 15:53
  David McClelland: Who who are the people when NICON is building out its portfolio and it's got its product management team, however it works there, and they're going, what gaps are there in the market that we feel we can, I guess on the one hand, exploit.
• 16:06
  David McClelland: On the other hand, we can serve our audience, our our customers or potential customers better.
• 16:12
  David McClelland: What is the gap that we think the Z52C is looking to cater for?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the price is a big factor, as you say.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's people who are looking for a more affordable camera.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh whether they know the difference between full frame and APSC or four-thirds, I don't know.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, so it's a more affordable camera.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um like I said before, you know, they probably don't know much about viewfinders.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's people who are getting into photography.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps they're used to taking photographs with their with their phone.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they've never actually used a viewfinder, so they're not too concerned about it.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Personally, I I can't imagine me buying a camera without a viewfinder because I get very frustrated when I can only see the reflection of myself, you know, and particularly in bright conditions.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday, you know, I was it was quite overcast at one point um down in Brighton.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'd been looking at the screen, it would have been really hard to see the image.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was you know making sure I was looking through the viewfinder.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can make some sort of um general composition, I think, sometimes, you know, what's on the outer edge and stuff like that, but finessing it, it's much easier to do that through the viewfinder.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: But with when you have when you have subject detection, at least you know that usually the camera is doing a good job of detecting the most important part of the subject and getting or the scene and getting it sharp.
• 17:28
  David McClelland: Here's a question for you.
• 17:29
  David McClelland: Um we didn't chat about this before we recorded, but with regards to the screen on the back of these cameras, and you know you mentioned the smartphone generation.
• 17:40
  David McClelland: Apple has just released its iPhone Duo, the foldable camera that's uh well, it's it's not a foldable camera.
• 17:46
  David McClelland: It has cameras in it and they're not great.
• 17:49
  David McClelland: But the with a foldable screen, sorry.
• 17:51
  David McClelland: Uh and in order to reduce reflections on the internal screen of the iPhone Duo, they have what they call a nanotexture display, which they've also offered on some of their studio monitors and also on some of their tablet devices as well.
• 18:03
  David McClelland: And that nanotexture display, it does dramatically reduce reflections, particularly when you're uh holding your phone, using your phone outdoors, or when you've got big lights around you.
• 18:13
  David McClelland: Is there anything in the in the camera market where there is an equivalent of that kind of nanotextured display, if you like, that you've come across?
• 18:22
  David McClelland: Something which does reduce those reflections, does reduce the glare when it's outside?
• 18:27
  David McClelland: Because it feels to me as if it's appearing now on more consumer-grade smartphone type devices that maybe if it were going to happen on cameras, it either would have happened or it w we might just be starting to see it.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It tends to be actually it doesn't get to spoken about too much these days, but it used to be lots of uh conversations about you know uh coatings.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And often it's about coatings that allow you to wipe off fingerprints really quickly.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously it's the fingerprints that really cause a problem, isn't it, when they get all smeary.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing, a lot of cameras have the ability to make the screen brighter.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you basically just make it really brighter and kind of power through those reflections.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: But the the downside, of course, is that it does eat through the battery a bit quicker.
• 19:11
  David McClelland: Yeah, of course.
• 19:12
  David McClelland: And the other thing about the nanotexture displays, and you can even get these films that you put on on top of your uh tablets that you know make it easy to use with pencils or just gives you a little bit of resistance, is that it does dull some of that uh vibrancy.
• 19:27
  David McClelland: Um so you're kind of having to lift up your knits to push through the grease and everything else, and maybe the the uh texture on the surface.
• 19:36
  David McClelland: But the surface is working against that.
• 19:39
  David McClelland: Who knows?
• 19:39
  David McClelland: Be it'd be interesting to see actually if if there are some of those that come out.
• 19:43
  David McClelland: Now, like I say, now we're starting to see those on uh more widely on smartphone type screens.
• 19:48
  David McClelland: Uh so interesting, beginner-friendly, kind of maybe for the smartphone generation who isn't going to miss the viewfinder because that's not what their experience of filming uh and shooting has been so far.
• 20:00
  David McClelland: 1349, body only, an interesting addition, like I say, is is how you described it in your review.
• 20:07
  David McClelland: Let's see, let's see.
• 20:08
  David McClelland: Maybe there are more people who've been looking for the perfect camera to take their fish pictures with that than we realized.
• 20:16
  David McClelland: Um I mentioned that interesting edition was uh your line on your review, or well actually on your uh uh your your piece there from the briefing on SheClicks.
• 20:26
  David McClelland: And SheClicks has been through a little bit of a rebrand or a bit of a glow-up, maybe we're supposed to call it these days.
• 20:33
  David McClelland: Uh just talk to me about what's been happening over in She Clicksville, Tennessee.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um after the photography show last year, I had lots of well, at the show I had lots of conversations with people and after the show, I sort of cogitated for a while.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I had some focus group meetings.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did a poll survey with the with the whole group and I had some focus group meetings and spoke about what people wanted from SheClicks going forward.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I kind of detected a desire for something beyond Facebook.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when I put that to the focus groups, there were lots of it was incredible agreement actually.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people were very keen to go for that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had um a forum developed.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's called She Clicks Connect.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's lots of con different subjects, you know, it's broken down into categories.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're really into landscape photography, you can just click on that section and read about landscape photography.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you live in the northwest of the UK, there's a section there specifically for people in that area, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you can just say, hey, I'm popping to wherever.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is anyone going to go there?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you know what it's like?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or ask for suggestions of things to photograph if you're heading up that way.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there's integrated into that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's Connect and there's Connect Plus, but you it's kind of they're completely integrated.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Connect is free, and you can have all the sort of conversations that you would ha expect to have on a Facebook group.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: But Connect Plus, where it gets a bit more granular and where it's broken down and there's more challenges and things, that's going to be part of a subscription model which is Just kind of kicking in now.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who joins now gets a month free to try it out.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you can play around for a month to see whether you like it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like it, you can carry on just using the Free Connect.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you do like it, it would be three pounds a month or£20 for a year.
• 22:15
  David McClelland: It's funny how we've it feels as though in a way we've kind of come full circle with community building online, doesn't it?
• 22:21
  David McClelland: And forums with something that I was using 25, maybe 30, gosh, showing my aid now.
• 22:27
  David McClelland: Maybe 30 or almost years ago.
• 22:29
  David McClelland: And well, here we are in 2026, 5 to 2027.
• 22:35
  David McClelland: And it feels though, yep, social media has been this big journey for 15 or so years, yet here we are back with forums and the fact that they you can customize them, that they can be far more self-policing and far more safer spaces as well.
• 22:49
  David McClelland: And that yeah, they're not gonna scrape our data and sell it off to the highest bidder or lowest part of the ocean, uh kind of dredging our images and thoughts.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Ross Powell That's right.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, there's no algorithm telling you what you're gonna look at.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go and see something, you can see it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to put a URL in your post, anyone who's on there can still see it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like your your post suddenly gets hidden like it like it does on uh on Facebook.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, I've also added something called the community calendar, which is connected with it, and that's where I've put lots of um photographic competitions and things like that.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So people can go and see uh what comp competitions are on at the moment, moments.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of people they get to a point think, I'm really pleased with this picture.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to put it in to a competition.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they can go to the calendar and see what competitions are open.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if the and they can see which are coming up as well, they can put those dates in their own calendar so it will pop up and remind them.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there's obviously links to where they can actually enter.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So just trying to help women in particular enter more photographic competitions.
• 23:52
  David McClelland: Sounds great.
• 23:52
  David McClelland: My daughter could really do with something like that for her writing.
• 23:55
  David McClelland: She loves writing short stories.
• 23:57
  David McClelland: And boy, she goes all the way around the around the bits of the internet where she's allowed to go as a as a 13, nearly 14-year-old to try and find competitions.
• 24:06
  David McClelland: But actually, if there were an equivalent of what you've described there, but for young writers, with there's this competition in November, this competition in January, this competition, but you need to be this in order to qualify in June, that would be such a helpful thing.
• 24:19
  David McClelland: And so that sounds like a really useful service for your members over there at SheClicks.
• 24:24
  David McClelland: Anj, been lovely to speak to you.
• 24:27
  David McClelland: If people do want to find out more about SheClix and see some more, read more of your uh hands-on reviews and reflections on newly launched Kit, where are they best to go?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wherever you are, just go to SheClicks.net.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: You'll find us.
• 24:42
  David McClelland: Brilliant.
• 24:43
  David McClelland: Anj, as always, lovely to speak to you.
• 24:45
  David McClelland: Thank you for sharing your thoughts here on the Photography and Video Show podcast today.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So where it sits right now, I would uh very much describe it as a sort of an alternative fine art and fashion portfolio.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So looking at my uh my portfolio now, uh, that would be the best description for it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I dabbled early on in my career with pyrotechnics, fire breathers, fire performers, uh, smoke grenades, all of all of that side side of things.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um that was chaos, right?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: So my my my twenties, my thirties, you know, my early 30s, absolute chaos.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um what I've learnt uh with industry is to refine all of those things.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that description there in one sentence kind of sums me up.
• 25:57
  David McClelland: Let's unpack some of that fine art stuff in there in a moment as well, and about some of the well, chaos, or maybe not chaos, I don't know.
• 26:05
  David McClelland: Uh when I first took a look at your portfolio, if if we if we think of Instagram as a portfolio of our work, and it depends upon how you curate your feed, of course, but there is from a portraiture point of view, a very strong look of the work that you produce, the models that you work with, and perhaps the world that you work with and the uh and the people you work with.
• 26:32
  David McClelland: So talk to me about specifically your work with I don't know, alternative culture.
• 26:38
  David McClelland: How do you describe what is the majority of your output right now?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that is that's that's absolutely it.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what you know the last sort of 10, 15 years has been working towards.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I kind of stumbled into it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So my background is is a fine art background, right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I was uh I was I was destined to be the next Diego Rivera, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh purely from an artistic point of view.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and yeah, my education is in is in fine art.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh photography has always been a secondary to that, you know.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always had a camera with me, be it a film camera, um, or when I can remember my first digital camera uh being a Canon uh 350D, I think it was when that came out.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got that from um Jessups in Cabot Circus, I remember quite fondly, uh, on dad's credit cards, as as you as you do, like you know.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that was it was always a secondary.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I suppose that kind of came with me everywhere.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And as you know, any anybody that knows me, I'm I'm pretty heavily covered in in the culture myself, you know, tattoos, uh piercings, etc.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: So being surrounded by that and taking my camera with me into that environment, um that's kind of what built my eye, if you will, um when it came to to portraites.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um even to this day, most of the quote unquote the models that I use are actually very good personal friends of mine that have that aesthetic.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because we all we all grew up together, we all hang out in the same kind of spots, you know, tattoos and uh skateboarding and you know, skating, and in that kind of alternative world, you know, going to rock gigs and metal gigs on Gloucester Road in my in my you know early teens, et cetera.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of what's built what what is projected to the world now, I suppose, on you know on my social medias and and uh on my portfolio, et cetera.
• 28:36
  David McClelland: So a lot of ink, a lot of flesh, I suppose, a a lot of attitude as well, but a really tight-knit community that you I mean we've spoken with some photographers who work with specific communities, uh even this series on the show, and they might describe themselves as a documentarian, particularly where that community doesn't have the exposure or the outlet in the same way, you know, particularly niche cultures.
• 29:03
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 29:04
  David McClelland: I I don't know if that's the case for you, because you know, particularly when it comes to t to tattoos and ink and so on, there are a lot of outlets there.
• 29:12
  David McClelland: So is there um is there a part of your work which is documentary, or actually is it more celebratory, would you say?
• 29:20
  David McClelland: What where is your work fitting into the kind of outreach of that?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell I mean it's in in my mind, as as I say, with this with this whole with this you know, this whole fine art background, I'm always kind of working towards sounds odd to say, but working towards a final piece, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So something, you know, something that you would probably consider now to be uh you know a hero shot, if you will.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's always at the at the forefront of uh of my mind is what is the you know what if it's a carousel that I'm building, what's the first post on that on that carousel, for example, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always working towards that that one shot.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, you you work with different people, you collaborate with different people, and their expectations of you as a photographer might be different.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: One model might want 10 images if it's uh you know, if it's a test shoot or what have you, another one might want a hundred, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Personally, if I get that one, I'm happy as Larry, I'm ready to pack everything up and go, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so yeah, into in terms of in terms of um the way that I approach things, it's certainly I'm always looking for that that stellar shot, uh, going a nice frame and sticking up in a gallery there.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I apologize, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but um, but that's kind of the way that I look at it, you know?
• 30:38
  David McClelland: It's important to have that vision.
• 30:40
  David McClelland: And whether you are trying to create a big portfolio, or like you say that that kind of one shot, your subjects are one thing, and your and your work, particularly your work which which centres around uh say this alternative culture, some fantastic models there as well.
• 30:55
  David McClelland: That's one thing.
• 30:56
  David McClelland: But what about your your style or your styles that you've developed?
• 31:00
  David McClelland: Because there's a very strong lighting composition, not a heavy editing and touch-up kind of feel, at least as it as it shows to me on Instagram.
• 31:10
  David McClelland: But what what how would you describe your your style and the style you aspire to?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Dark, uh gloomy, gothic, grungy, all of all of the above, you know.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's kind of I mean, I that is they're the paintings that I I used to love to look at the most, you know, um heavily influenced by people like I mean, you can't get away from Rembrandt in this in this industry or the art world, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was an absolute master.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, Francesco Goya, you know, the just the how how dark and how saturated uh those paintings were.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I love, you know, and I've done more of it uh very recently uh and delve into the world of colour gels and uh you know experimenting with nice bright bold colour, but you know, uh the bulk of the work I did for about seven or eight years is is pretty homed in on that, on that, on that dark and gloomy sort of um sort of uh sort of look and aesthetic, if you will.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um that and it's quite simple.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: One one light, a reflector, sometimes not a reflector.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I create those images.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Paramount lighting actually is my favorite.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a bit of that going on now, as you can see, with this whole aesthetic, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so um butterfly lighting, um, paramount lighting, that's that's my that's my favorite go-to default.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I see myself scanning the world quite a bit, you know.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and when I when I'm approached by the model or I'm approaching a model, I look for that aesthetic.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you actually, yeah, your your features look absolutely fantastic under that lighting circumstance, you know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, it's a very, it's a it's an ingrained thing now, you know.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very conscious of it.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh whereas before I was I was just sort of uh as is as I mentioned, that word before chaos.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's what I was looking for vaguely before I understood the the technicals of of how to do it, you know, how to achieve that look.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then, you know, as as my as my good friend Gary Hill would say, get it right in camera, or get as much writing camera as possible, and your post-processing is uh is a breeze, right?
• 33:24
  David McClelland: I've got the book behind me right now: Gordon Lang in camera.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great book.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Great book.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:34
  David McClelland: Uh so coming back to the art thing and ink and kind of painting and creating those moods, the styles that you have been inspired by.
• 33:45
  David McClelland: I think back to a conversation I had with Brooke Shaden and I I spoke with her earlier this year on the on the podcast.
• 33:52
  David McClelland: Uh I've spoken with her in person as well.
• 33:55
  David McClelland: And she she speaks and she works in a very multimedia kind of way, but also she speaks to say, I wish I could paint my photographs.
• 34:06
  David McClelland: I wish that I could get a brush out.
• 34:08
  David McClelland: And to be fair, she absolutely does that now.
• 34:12
  David McClelland: Is there any sense in which you with your fine art background?
• 34:16
  David McClelland: And I and I don't know where that went, whether that was something that you couldn't continue with.
• 34:21
  David McClelland: Is there any sense where you've been able not just to get it right in camera, as you say, but actually to experiment with more kind of multimedia techniques to layer stuff on top of the raw images?
• 34:33
  David McClelland: Is that something you've looked at?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sketching, painting, it it never leaves you, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a point where I realized that um photography was a quicker means uh of expression.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as did as the digital age kind of got better and better and better and way more accessible, I found that that was that was way quicker than spending you know weeks or months on a on a painting.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it the the other the other part of me is you know, go go big or go home.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm trying to do frescoes, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's nothing that I've painted uh since art school that's been under sort of, you know, you know, if we're talking three-meter canvases, you know, that I used to I used to build those myself, right?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um that was that was always the um that that was always the the sort of the the part that really uh that really drove me, you know, was creating images that big.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that I do now is okay, so on a much smaller scale or in a sketchbook or what have you, but um right now it's not for the world to see, is the way that I kind of feel about it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um whether I'm doing myself a disservice there or not, I don't know.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, certainly for from a personal perspective, I love doing it.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've you know, I I've never stopped doing it, but I just don't I just don't put it out there like I put my photography out there, if that makes sense.
• 35:54
  David McClelland: Do you do pre-vis so those draftsmen, those art artists' skills, do you do pre-visualization before you're going into a shoot, or if you're doing something a bit experimental, are you the type of person who will plan and have that sketch in the sketchbook before you actually go and execute it on sets or on vocation or in studio?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's just a really even even down to um as simple as a you know stick figure drawing, right?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and stick light stands and and modifiers, etc.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I want to I want to visualize an entire, you know, what what my what what the band conversion or if it's a professional studio that I'm stepping into or even on location, I want to visualize what that's gonna look like uh as an as an as an entire thing, you know, and I'll I'll go and get I'll go and get my little A5 sketchbook or I'll I'll go and get a nice big A3 piece of paper and I'll sort of draw those out, you know.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then and then the shoot is done.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take a snap of it and it away it goes into a portfolio.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a nice big portfolio, it's it's currently in the shed, and uh as I say, no, no one no one ever sees that.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think my partner's seen it since uh since university, like you know.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So but yeah, it's it there's that's an extra element.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've not actually talked about this with anyone, so you get the exclusive on this one, David, right?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've I don't I I never talk about drawing or painting, you know.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh uh but I don't know, maybe you prompted me to to maybe get those out at some point.
• 37:23
  David McClelland: Well do you know, I mean that's got me thinking as well.
• 37:26
  David McClelland: Uh and this wasn't something I planned to talk about, but I I I studied art at school and then dropped it and went off and did other things uh for higher education.
• 37:35
  David McClelland: But I do have an A3 sketchbook here and I'm scribbling all the time.
• 37:41
  David McClelland: And particularly when I am on a creative project, I will if I'm feeling stumped, I will get a pencil and I will I will sketch out.
• 37:51
  David McClelland: And there's two things that happen.
• 37:54
  David McClelland: First of all, I'm embarrassed by the output of that.
• 37:57
  David McClelland: Because it's like, oh no no one can ever see that.
• 38:00
  David McClelland: No one can ever see it because it's not as good as I want it to be.
• 38:04
  David McClelland: I was never the draftsman, I was never the artist that I really felt that I wanted to be, and that some of my friends have ultimately become brilliant for them.
• 38:11
  David McClelland: However, I reassure myself with this that the same as when I'm writing ink to think, the process of writing something else is what crystallizes my thoughts and helps me to arrive at some clear thoughts.
• 38:24
  David McClelland: And it's the same with even my sketches, even as as primitive as they may be, it's the process of going through those and the crystallization of ideas, images in my mind that I think is the important thing.
• 38:37
  David McClelland: It's the journey, not the output, I think is what I'm trying to say.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate that.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's good to, yeah, it's good to it's good to do that, right?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's you're you're putting it down into a visual format, isn't it?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on in your head?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that can help clear things up, you know, as it were.
• 38:56
  David McClelland: So take me back then, Chris.
• 38:58
  David McClelland: Take me back.
• 38:59
  David McClelland: You have um done your fine art uh degree, course, whatever, and you're looking ahead at this at the big bad world and going, right, how am I gonna satisfy myself artistically and also pay pay the bills?
• 39:14
  David McClelland: Uh you've had a camera with you from a younger age and it's been that companion by your side.
• 39:21
  David McClelland: And then whatever happens and you decide that photography is a direction that's maybe going to be a better course for you in the in the short term.
• 39:30
  David McClelland: How do you start, how did you start building up a body of work, that that portfolio for the work that you wanted to do?
• 39:37
  David McClelland: It's often quite difficult to get into it without having that work in the first place.
• 39:41
  David McClelland: So, what were your steps to building up, I guess strengthening your own muscle, but also demonstrating to others that this is work that you had that you were adept in?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: That I wanted to do, yeah, absolutely.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I mean it it all kind of it all kind of came to a bit of a head.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'd completely stopped um just after just after university, doing doing anything really.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I needed that, I needed that um that day-to-day nine to five sort of grind.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh I was working uh as a visual merchandiser in Marks and Spencer's.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh actually at the time that kind of saw me all the way throughout, uh, you know, from from the moment that I could work to um around about 20, 2015.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that would have been about three, about three years, three years after I graduated, or four years maybe.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was kind of at that at that crossroad.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking for a more creative job.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love speaking to people, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the customer service side of things, I didn't, I didn't really mind that, you know.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can remember uh a job came up, or or a uh a sort of an advert came up, local town that I was in, Camarthin, which I'm I'm still in now, uh, but for Camarthan Camera Centre, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and that was that was my my route uh back into um finding that spark again, right?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh being surrounded by cameras uh and uh quite amazing photographers that we've that we've got in our in our local catchment area.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh you know Matthew, who's the MD of Kamarvin Camera Centre and Ray, our our uh um our previous store manager, they gave me the reins to be as creative as I as I kind of wanted uh from a uh sort of let's call it a commercial aspect, if you will.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so running events.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: As I currently sit here today, what pays the bills is I'm I'm the events director at Kamarvin Camera Centre.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm I'm bringing in guys like Gary Hill and Simon Burfert and Glynn Dewis and you know all those big names I used to I used to really look up to back in the day.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, they're they're all on they're all on my speed dial now, which is which is which is quite crazy.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it all came around full circle in the end.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, that was that was kind of the that was the spark that I needed, let's say, uh to kind of to kind of get back, to kind of get back and and and do something artistic uh and and creative again.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um every time I go for a sit-in, for a tattoo, the camera would always be with me, and I'd sort of be doing taking selfies or you know, kind of documenting that.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got I've got four I you know, I've got almost a folio full of just um the ink and the the the experience.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your selfies the ink.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's wild, you know, because uh yeah, it it's it's and that's before I bis.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you can you can imagine that uh the hit rate wasn't great, like but um yeah, that was look, listen, that that was that was kind of yeah, to to kind of answer uh answer your question in a little bit more clarity.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: That was the route back in that gave me the inspiration to pick the camera back up a little bit more seriously.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was doing sort of, you know, I was doing quite a lot of um uh shop videos, product launch videos, working with brands and and kind of just doing that whole, that whole sort of you know, the social media side of it, Instagram was kind of blowing up around that time as well.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it was um it was a really good YouTube as well.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really good time to sort of um to to get and keep your creative juices flowing.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, based on that work that I did there, I was able to, you know, buy more and more lighting equipment and and and experiment and and figure out you know, how do I get Francesco Goya lighting in in these images, right?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was the that was kind of the end goal.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, it was it was just as I said, I was I was never at a shortage of alternative people to photograph, uh, because as I said, most of them were my were my good friends or you know, drinking buddies from back in the uni days in Cardiff.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there was always someone there that I could call up and and you know they come and sit with with me for an hour.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I pay them in rum or or wine or you know, whatever whatever that was, you know, at the time.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, that those those.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: First two years were just it was just a solid grind to kind of get there.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you've got to think about right, okay, cool.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing this, I've got my nine to five job, I've got the security of a paycheck, right?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do I how do I bring people with ink into the mainstream, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do we bring them into the mainstream?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do I how do I get somebody who's who's fully covered in tattoos, uh almost head to toe to the photography show to do a a live demonstration on you know the the creative stage or on the live stage, right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's um so and and you know this year I achieved that, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which was which was a massive milestone.
• 44:41
  David McClelland: One of the many things that you surfaced there was the hint of a mission in your work.
• 44:48
  David McClelland: And I really love chatting with photographers and and creatives as a whole as to whether they do have a mission.
• 44:53
  David McClelland: Obviously, you know, fulfill whatever artistic um journey they that they want to go on, and yes, pay the bills that supports them in that journey.
• 45:02
  David McClelland: But sometimes there's another mission, whether it is um about highlighting causes around sustainability or wildlife or um natural environments and so on.
• 45:13
  David McClelland: And you you hinted there about one of those missions is about bringing some of the people who you work with uh and the the world that you work with as dark as it might be, kind of shining a bit of a spotlight on that as well.
• 45:25
  David McClelland: Is is that is that a a mission that you recognize that you uh have have tried to fulfill in in various ways?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all it all yeah.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: When when I and you can see it from sort of the you know the the magazines and stuff that you see in you know any any any superstore or commercial outlet that you go into, right?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's all um it's all very clean, right?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and it's very risk-free, if that, if that kind of makes sense.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just want I just wanted to bring something a little bit different, a little bit edgy to it.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not I'm not saying that that wasn't around, right?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no I'm no pioneer of of you know shooting tattoo people and and putting them out there.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um certainly when I started, there wasn't much of it for me to consume, right?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the internet, you know, it wasn't it wasn't as richly saturated with images of people of that description as it is now, you know.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's it's certainly something that I I I would love to one day just just yeah, just just blow it up and say sort of exhibit if you if you were hinting at the uh at the sort of the next uh uh the next chapter.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, absolutely.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to I want to put that on a on a on a big stage, big platform if I can.
• 46:46
  David McClelland: So from the point at which, again, just rewinding a little bit, Chris, the point at which you are going out to models, you're uh leaning into your community, a group of people who you you already know and already know you, when did did the tables start to turn when people started coming towards you and saying, Hey Chris, I I like your work.
• 47:05
  David McClelland: I would like to build up my own portfolio, or I want you to come and do this commercial shoot for us.
• 47:11
  David McClelland: Have you got any ideas or any creative for that?
• 47:13
  David McClelland: When did that start to turn more and more into a commercial opportunity for you?
• 47:17
  David McClelland: Was there a particular model or a particular image or a particular time when it just started to click?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Difficult to pin pinpoint the one, if you if you will, really.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was a there was there I can remember one really good month that I had, right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um where four or five of my images were were kind of picked up um by by various different vendors, right?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um uh there was there was a publication that I had in a magazine that I was absolutely desperate to get into, uh, which was Expressions magazine at the time.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and they were they were running a little bit of a uh a sort of a it was a a boutique book, so uh they were hand selecting images for that.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: So uh an image of mine went into that uh with a young lady called Rosie, uh who's one of one of my one of the best people to work with in the entire world, right?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and thereafter, I think Sig, I think Sigma had re-shared one of my images onto their social medias.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that kind of that hit the that yeah, that hit the algorithm and that that spiked my my sort of my social following.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at the end of that, uh, I believe there was a there was an interior design uh company that that came along.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: They were all it was they were looking for a lighting consultant to basically come along and say, uh how do I how do I light this sofa to make it look three-dimensional, right?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I spent a whole day with them at a uh at their offices in Swansea, um basically just just setting different lighting configurations up, and uh, and that was probably my one of my first big invoices, right?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Which um Yeah, I mean listen, it's it's not you know it's not it's not the it's not writing up stories, but um you know that's that's where that's kind of where it all started.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um certainly from a from the perspective of um uh of of the inked stuff, the look and the the thing that I create, um that publication was probably the was probably the the start of it that month, I would say.
• 49:23
  David McClelland: And are there any any models uh or any particular images?
• 49:27
  David McClelland: I mean you mentioned Sigma reposting some there and and obviously appearances in magazines, but are there any any particularly striking moments with models or images that have I guess opened you up to a new audience or suddenly kind of got your work to appear in places that maybe it hadn't done before?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly, yeah.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I so and but whether whether whether I'm allowed to talk about it or not, it's uh everything's fine.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I I I'll delve into it a little bit.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um so my first ambassadorship around that same time was with uh photics.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I do myself with the the brand photics, right?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh that was that was thanks to my good friend Simon Burford who kind of who kind of pushed pushed and pushed and pushed and got me into that, it got me into that role.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was a dream come true because I I absolutely I love their equipment, uh, I love their lighting, etc.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh I can remember uh Lawrence coming back to me um from a show in Japan.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I forget the name of it, but it's quite a quite a big yearly show.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: And he'd done a video sweep of the of the sort of the the this their stand, if you will.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, one of one of my shots was was blown up large on on said stand, which was absolutely, absolutely mind blowing.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he just casually, you know, sort of sort of whipped past it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: But um I was like, wow, that's that's on display in Japan with all of my accreditations next to it.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like geez, this has got this has got legs, right?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is this has got legs, you know.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, wow, I've made it to the other side of the world.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, and that and that was and that kind of that type of thing spurs you on, right?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then before before I know it, uh I'm being asked by by people at home to put on workshops.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people want to know how I how I how I like stuff, you know?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's all this?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I I can't, it's odd to say, I can't pinpoint any one moment.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just sort of stumble into these situations, right?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got to just get a grip of yourself and be like, oh wow, right, okay.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um so Camarvin Cameras had put out the put out the workshop, my first like sort of sort of solo workshop, if you will.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a set of three, so it was over three Fridays, a beginner, uh, uh uh uh an advanced and then a masterclass, right?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so they put that out there and it and it like sold out in four hours.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I'm just I'm sat there like it's like wow, I've really got to brush up and make sure that everything is foolproof that I do now, you know.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that was all you know, uh thinking about it now, that whirlwind was probably within a two-month period of that first major publication, if you will, you know?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's funny how it happens sometimes, isn't it?
• 52:24
  David McClelland: It's it's like buses waiting for buses to come along and then all of a sudden you've got a street full of them.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: But do you know I'd I've never I've I've never I'm gonna sit back, I'm gonna sit back now and have a look at those images that I've produced in that time period because I've never connected those dots before until you've asked me that question, to be honest with you, which is uh which is quite cool.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Which is quite cool, you know.
• 52:46
  David McClelland: You mentioned the education piece there, Chris.
• 52:48
  David McClelland: Uh and I know you do a chunk of that uh uh around lighting, but also working with the models who you work with as well.
• 52:54
  David McClelland: And and it's interesting because you've already spoken about your influences as regards lighting.
• 53:00
  David McClelland: And I've I've seen a lot of your work and I've seen how you light some stuff as well.
• 53:05
  David McClelland: And it's there's a real sense of economy there.
• 53:09
  David McClelland: You know, the the the moody, the contrasty look, the the filmic, cinematic look that you get.
• 53:14
  David McClelland: You've got a light that is very, very well positioned.
• 53:18
  David McClelland: Yes, you've you've got highlights and stuff as well, but really it's about using what you've got as economically and as accurately as possible to get those looks.
• 53:26
  David McClelland: And obviously with your models, it's very, very subtle kind of posing prompts as well, right?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and it it doesn't always have to be sort of uh extravagant or flamboyant.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: The the the narrative is etched on their skin, right?
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that they want to say is they're wearing it, as as far as I'm concerned.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Same as me, that's why I go to a I I go to a tattoo studio, right?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want to walk away with a piece of art that's gonna stay with me for life.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the the experience of getting that is therapeutic for me as well, you know.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a sort of a uh you know if I'm having a bad time, like my uh I always say to my uh my tattoo artist, your best counsellor in the entire world, mate.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I get a bit of artwork off you at the same time, like you know.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's yeah, it's it's it's one of those things where it the person is so striking, I don't need to, I don't need to pose them too flamboyantly in order to get the point across.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, absolutely, and listen, the what you tend to find is I'm sure every photographer will tell you, right?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: We go through that thing of buying, buying, buying, buying equipment, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, actually, all I ever needed was one light, one strip box and one good modifier, and it is job done, isn't it?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so uh I mean I've learned that the hard way working working in the industry.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've seen a full paycheck uh for a good good long year, to be honest with you.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um it it's it's learning what you need to do the job and do the job effectively, right?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what it boils down to for me.
• 55:06
  David McClelland: And it is that it is that journey, and I'm going back to the sketches that we mentioned earlier on.
• 55:10
  David McClelland: It's not the end product necessarily, it's it's what you pick up along the way and what that crystallizes for you.
• 55:15
  David McClelland: And if yeah, if you do spend several thousand pounds along that way buying kit, that ends up sat in a box and I'm looking at a cupboard full of it right now, trust me.
• 55:25
  David McClelland: Oh my word.
• 55:26
  David McClelland: Oh my word.
• 55:27
  David McClelland: Uh so looking forward, Chris, uh obviously the journey that that you've been on and uh and the the the things that you've learned and other people that you've inspired, what's what's next for you?
• 55:41
  David McClelland: What what would you like to see happen next and what directions would you like to dip your toes into with your work?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: I th I think um publishing is a is a is a big one.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I'd love to see a uh a coffee table book of some description uh with my with my yeah with my best pieces uh in it.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's that's more of a development thing because I don't I don't think that I've I've got there just yet uh in achieving my best portfolio.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so and that's quite exciting for me, uh knowing that there we go, come January, hit it, you know, hit that, hit the studio hard again and and try and create the next set of images.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's certainly something that I'm that I'm working towards is is some type of publication.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, as I mentioned you before we came on air, uh I I think um pushing for an exhibition of some description, I've kind of got that, I've got a taste for that now.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um a good friend of mine, Lucy, who is also one of the models that features quite heavily in my portfolio for our our tattoo, uh our tattoo gallery.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: We did a uh a sort of a five-year anniversary exhibition, um, which I was a uh I was a sort of collaboratively uh collaboratively sorry a part of.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, we we held that in Swansea.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was a roaring success, you know, to see so many of their of their clients then who we had photographed turn up to have a look at their images in print, etc.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, that really gave me the the bug to maybe go dip my toe back into the art world and and produce something, you know, really, really meaningful that that kind of stands out.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um how and when I'm gonna do that, I don't I don't know.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: But that's part of the excitement for me that's sort of building up is is that journey of getting there.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've no doubt, like I said, I've I've stumbled into every every good opportunity that I've ever had.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm sure I'm gonna I'm gonna find a way of stumbling into this one as well.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, through the mantra of hard work, of course.
• 57:52
  David McClelland: Yeah, you know, you've you've got to be in it to win it.
• 57:54
  David McClelland: And but uh to stumble into something, you've got to get off uh up and onto your feet uh and move in a direction in the first place.
• 58:02
  David McClelland: And sometimes that's the difficult thing, but it sounds as though you're certainly up and and and running in directions and trying to make things happen, which is great to hear.
• 58:10
  David McClelland: Uh Chris, it's been fantastic to speak with you today.
• 58:13
  David McClelland: And uh I look forward to bumping into you at a photography and video show or indeed in a gallery.
• 58:19
  David McClelland: Who knows?
• 58:20
  David McClelland: Maybe very soon.
• 58:21
  David McClelland: Uh but for now, Krishna, thank you for joining us here on the show.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, David.
• 58:29
  David McClelland: Really good to catch up with Chris.
• 58:31
  David McClelland: Links to his socials are in the show notes.
• 58:33
  David McClelland: Time again now to share some exciting updates on the in-person photography and video show 2027 in London in this month's What Three Things?
• 58:48
  David McClelland: Tickets are now on sale for the Photography and Video Show in London, taking place from Friday to Tuesday the 13th to the 16th of March 2027 at the XL.
• 58:58
  David McClelland: Head to photography show.com to buy yours and to find details of multi-day ticket deals for enthusiasts and how professionals can apply for free entry.
• 59:12
  David McClelland: The first headline speakers at the show have also been announced.
• 59:15
  David McClelland: Filmmaker and co-creator of the Slowmo Guys YouTube channel, Gavin Free, will be there in London, as will storyteller, digital creator, and internet icon Hannah Wilson.
• 59:27
  David McClelland: Meanwhile, on the show floor, the three biggest camera brands have confirmed they'll be in attendance Canon, Nikon, and Sony, along with many other camera names such as Pro Photo, Capture One, and Saar Digital.
• 59:38
  David McClelland: Keep it locked to PhotographyShow.com for full details.
• 59:45
  David McClelland: And that is all that we have time for this month.
• 59:48
  David McClelland: Thanks again to all of our guests, and thank you to you for coming along for the ride.
• 59:52
  David McClelland: We'll be back again at the beginning of December with more camera news, more camera reviews and features, as well as some more updates on the London show.
• 1:00:01
  David McClelland: Until then, from all of us here, bye bye.