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Insuramax: Your Safety Net in the Elevator Industry · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the customer doesn't have to do it.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: We don't tell you how to run your business.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: You tell us what you need from us.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just more than just writing a piece of uh a policy with paper on it and send it to you.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're very hands-on and we're very involved.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they love it.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: They absolutely love it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because they want to be involved.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: They want to know what's going on.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We we walk them through the renewal process.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: They love the claims meetings every quarter.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They love that we're reviewing their contracts.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when we change two or three wordings and two of our big contractors and one of our little ones, and uh it's been very beneficial to them.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: So all that is just key to keep their business going as well as to minimize the losses for them.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to Elevator Tools and Tech, a special series from the Elevator Careers Podcast, where we spotlight the latest innovations, tools, suppliers, and technology driving the vertical transportation industry.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: In each episode, we sit down with the creators, engineers, and solution providers who are helping elevator companies work smarter, safer, and more efficiently.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: This episode of Elevator Tools and Tech is brought to you by InsuraMax, a trusted provider of insurance solutions for elevator contractors.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm talking with Alan Jones, Vice President of Commercial Lines for InsuraMax.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: With over 20 years of industry experience, Alan understands the unique risks of the elevator industry and has helped create a comprehensive insurance plan to protect your business.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can learn more at InsuraMax.com or give Alan a call at 502-648-7496.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Alan, welcome to the show.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks, Matt.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the opportunity.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm excited to be able to talk again.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know you and I have had some some interesting conversations and uh and I'm always intrigued because I, you know, as I talk to a lot of elevator contractors, they tell me that that insurance, you know, obviously it's important, right?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is a high-risk industry, but it's also one of the one of the top line items on their on their P ⁇ L.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so they got to keep an eye on it.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you've got a lot of experience in that in that field.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just digging into that a little bit more is going to be uh a lot of fun.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Been looking forward to it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just want to start off, you know, how long have you been writing insurance for elevator contractors?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I started about 25 years ago, wrote a nice size elevator contractor here in Louisville, Kentucky.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love working with contractors.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love elevator contractors.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a tough business, it's a niche business.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um every city needs them.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and you're right, insurance is going through the roof on them.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been successful in starting a program that's been pretty good and not only gives them the best coverage, but saves them plenty of money as well.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: How did you kind of get started?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: You said you wrote your first one 25 years ago.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: What what led to that and what led to you moving into this space and and you know not leaving that one as a one-off?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I've been in the business about since 1988.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, started in an insurance business.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: We started our own agency in '91, these lookans at the time.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: We were purchased in 2011.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when we when I wrote this first one, uh, the elevator business, I noticed that there wasn't a lot of markets out there.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: The price was going through the roof, not because of what they did, but the overall loss experience of the industry.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you get in New York and Florida and California, maybe even Louisiana and Illinois, um, there's a lot of losses, a lot of claims.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I fell out of the elevator at one level.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I tripped and fell.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love the myth about the elevator fell to the bottom, which that's not gonna happen.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so after writing this first one, I'm like, you know what, I need to explore this some more.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I started calling on other ones, and we were very successful.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a great program out there.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: There were two programs at the time.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: We used the one a lot.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then as we kept going, we kept adding, adding, add them.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I noticed that the increases on the renewals kept going up and up, right.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not because of the the insurance company, but just because of losses, you know, and it's kind of like a pooling effect.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a program.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2020, um, we wrote a large one, and it was time to get creative.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we went out to the market, found a carrier that was very interested, and uh, we put a big program together for them, and then we started adding more to it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Our decrease is some we have multi-year policies.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some are three years, some are two years, some are one year, based on the size.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ones that have came up for renewal, uh, they've all seen a decrease, which is unheard of.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's huge.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: But our loss ratio overall for the program is about 16%.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah, no, that's great.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: For some of our listeners, you know, what are some of the and part of the reason this question's coming up is I talked to a guy a week or two ago, and he was telling me uh that somebody he knew of had purchased their insurance from from a local, you know, uh commercial insurance agent, but but apparently they didn't understand, or maybe they didn't tell him that the condos were excluded, which in his case was half of his business.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's he was doing apartments and condos.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It just so happens that the condos were considered what residential and and the apartments were considered commercial, and and so they were he was totally excluded.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm just curious from your vantage point, what are some of the risks?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's ex exclusions, but what are some of the risks that contractors may not be aware of?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a big one because a lot of well, there's not a lot of carriers that want to ride them anyway, elevators.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you got to be careful because the two big ones, like you said, residential is excluded, which could apply to condos.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: We just wrote one in Florida where we rewrote it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Same same situation.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you have zero coverage.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're working on those condos and it's excluded, it's excluded.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're paying for nothing.
• 6:06
  unknown: Right.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: The other one in New York, you got the labor law.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't want to uh add that to their policy.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we also like residential, it's not an issue.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so those are the two big ones you better be aware of.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if they don't add that labor law, then then they're then there's more risk that they're not covering, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: If the employee gets hurt and the employee in New York would sue the building owner, the building owner is going to be listed as additional insured under your general liability policy.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's going to come back to the your general liability, the contractor's general liability policy.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if that's excluded, you got no coverage.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're on the hook.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So they think they're covered, but because they didn't add in that employer, uh, employee policy, it's it's uh it's really kind of a I wouldn't call it a backdoor, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't know it, then uh you're you're at risk for sure.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um Honestly, Matt, I mean, that's the job of the broker, you know.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean so, right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: You'd hope.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well and I don't know.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you know Well, and it sounds like not everybody's brokers either know, or maybe they're just not being upfront about what the risks are.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they might not know.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the people are writing this business, you gotta know your what endorsements you need and and the coverage you need because each state's different.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um elevator contractors, again, that's a tough insurance product to uh get insured.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: What what's um what are some examples?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe uh a story when a you know a customer contractor was unaware of some risks and you know you've seen them maybe under underinsured.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh we really haven't we we've came across policies that didn't have the coverage they needed.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Underinsured, you know, that's a tough question.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna carry the limits your c your customers want you to do.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time, our customers carry a five or ten million dollar excess, and then the and then the uh each occurrence limit on the GL is either one or two million.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um well how much insurance do they need?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's based on what their customers' needs are.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I've seen all kinds of lawsuits over my 30-something years.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've never seen one where they try to go after the company for more than what they had.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ninety nine percent of our customers have general liability and excess.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And our program does both.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we do general liability, we do excess.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: We also can do the work comp, the auto, the bonds, the property, and the marine.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: We we're a one-stop shop.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: We do it all.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Plus certificates, we review your contracts.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important part about our program is the claims handling, and that is key.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why our program's been so successful.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned, you know, that uh you were you were selling a big policy, it was time to get creative, and um, and that's when you came up with a new program.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you know, in previous conversations, that's tied to claims handling.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's talk a little bit more about you know what was it that that you realized that, hey, we need to think differently about this.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's create a a new program this time.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: What was kind of driving that?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the driving point is you have to be proactive on these claims for these elevator contractors.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some are legit, some are bogus, but you got to get out there as soon as it happens.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the biggest thing is you have to make your customer aware, whether it's a small one or a large one, let us know AFCP.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a TPA that does nothing but handle claims for this program.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're the best of the best.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: They also handle it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a crane program in New York.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: They handle those claims as well, which that that program's doing great.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: But our guys, as soon as there's a loss, they're out there at the scene that day, they're getting witnesses statements, they're getting affidavits, they're getting all the all the information they need to get a good handle on that claim.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of just turning the claim and the broker turns it to the insurance company, and sometimes, most of the time, the insurance company sits on it and it puts a little reserve.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: So a reserve is hey, we think this might only be$10,000 based on what we know, but they really don't know too much because they're not out there.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't done their homework yet, it sounds like.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they do a$10,000 reserve.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen this a lot with our customers that we picked up.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, two years from now, that$10,000 reserve is now half a million or a million, which is driving their renewal through the roof.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what you're telling me though is there's a claim out there that that's two years old.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, somebody got hurt two years ago and we haven't resolved it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't settled, we're still sitting on it, kind of reactively wondering if somebody's gonna years later say, Oh, well, now my now my dog died, and now you owe me or whatever, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna they're gonna continue to to kind of build that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So how does it be?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they'll they'll get the letter from the lawyer six months later.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the the key to ours is again, if you're not out there right when it happens, well, it's f hard to find witnesses.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to find what exactly happened.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're gonna probably come after everybody that touched that elevator.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So not just us, but anybody else that worked or did anything on that elevator.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But with our program, our guys are really, really good across the country.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a great ideal.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: If it's something that needs to be settled, we settle right then.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why our program's like at a 16% loss ratio since 2020.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think you're gonna see most of the other programs out there or insurance companies writing it.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, their loss ratio is either 90, 100, 110%, which it all comes back to you on your renewal pricing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, for sure.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: If they're I mean, if they're yeah, if they're saying their loss ratio is that high, well then it's gonna cost you a lot more to to renew.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm hearing it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what let's talk through that a little bit more.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just the the the claims.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: What what's at risk if you know somebody falls, maybe they get pinched, maybe they get, you know, somebody gets it's a legitimate injury, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if I don't talk to them or do anything about it for a year or two, what what could happen?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So a claim that could easily be 10,000 or 5,000, if you ignore them or ignore the claim, first thing you want to do is prevent any type of paternity getting involved.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can be proactive and get with that customer, that person that's injured, and just show them some TLC, you know, show them that you care, whether it's your fault or not, you know, we've seen a lot of times that it really minimize the losses.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: They feel good that you're taking care of them, they trust us, and they're willing to settle, and usually for small amounts.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you ignore them, what happens is, you know, now you got other people in their head, they're getting letters from the attorneys.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're telling them, hey, we can get you six-figure summary, and now their eyes are opened up and going, let's call them, they call them, and and at the end of the day, something could have been settled pretty simple, ends up being six figures and maybe seven figures.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, seven figures would probably be a death or a severe, severe injury.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying that couldn't happen if we had one of them under our program, but our guys are really, really good.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: But ignoring the uh a claim is the worst thing you can do.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh I have a huge trucking company that is so great on being proactive on claims.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're amazing.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and uh, I can tell you that um their losses have been fantastic in the auto industry.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's really tough right now, but theirs have been good.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very proactive.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: We make the person's injured, you know, we want to know that we care.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can we help you?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes a long way instead of ignoring it.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And ignoring it is just gonna make it bigger, bigger, bigger.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, the attorney that's representing them, he's looking at it for, you know, hey, I'm gonna get 30, 40 percent of this.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, let's go do it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's fascinating to look at it from that perspective.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've heard of of lawsuits that that, yeah, probably didn't need to happen, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you you ignore somebody long enough and you make them mad enough.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then now ends up being a multimillion dollar lawsuit over something that, you know, if you'd have just paid attention to the person and and dealt with it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and to your point, I think getting out there um finding out what were the facts, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Who were the witnesses?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: What really happened?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because we, you know, if somebody's really hurt, we really want them to be made whole, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to rip anybody off, but but at the same time, we don't want to ignore them, make them mad, and then you know, risk blowing something up that didn't didn't need to be blown up.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like you recognize that and and really work to to make sure that that you're on top of it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, again, what happened, who saw it, you know, let's let's let's take responsibility rather than allow something beyond uh beyond that to happen.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, I work for my customer.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't work for the insurance company, I don't work for anybody but that elevator contractor.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever they need or what they need from me is I'm here for them 24.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So do you you mentioned um you know that that the renewals actually decrease.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit more about that that process.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: What is that like how does that work?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's all based on it's based on a lot of things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there so this program is based on revenue, makes it very simple to audit.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of them are based on payroll, and there's two or three payroll classes.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ours is strictly revenue.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is we give you a growth factor.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say that you say your revenue is 10 million, we do a two-year policy, so that would be 20 million, and then we might give you an extra five or 10 million on top of that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when you grow, and these guys are growing, and we want you to grow, that you're not hit with a big bill at the end of the year, at the end of the two years, because we put a growth factor in this.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So on the rate, though, it's all based on, hey, how did you perform?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and we do it on an individual basis.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not that the other ones don't, but you know, if our program, if you're at 10%, our program is at 90%, why should you get penalized?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, ours is at around 16%.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So because the program's doing so good, we pass that savings back on to our customers and a rate decrease.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's working like a charm right now.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's been very successful.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's, you know, from my understanding, it it's sending the right message, which is hey, if you do a good job managing your claims, well, then we're gonna, you know, you're gonna benefit.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that and I I um had experience 20 years ago when I uh you know got out of grad school as a HR guy at the time working at a bottling plant.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the uh safety guy whose office was right next to mine, well, he he he basically brought a million dollars to the bottom line because of the way he was managing, you know, he had been there a couple years, right?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: But but all of a sudden, the region that he was managing, um, they were like, oh my gosh, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: We just we just blew plant out of the water because of Dwayne, the safety guy, and and he was getting all these accolades.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that was kind of my first exposure to, um, what what did you do, Dwayne?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but it but it was.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: He was handling, you know, if there was a work comp injury, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was he was very proactive with helping that person get back to work instead of just allowing the you know to go on and on and on, and and the uh the work comp insurance.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: So is it similar, I guess, in that regard, that if you actively manage your your stuff, you're gonna see lower risk.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so we do quarterly claims meetings that we also get the client involved and they love getting involved.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: We want to know, tell us about your safety program.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Our program, too.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: We also have, which is part of the program, contracts that you have that we might be able to minimize your losses.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we will review a group of attorneys who will review your contracts.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to change it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: They'll just give you advice and say, hey, have you changed this word a little bit or that word a little bit?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then if a claim does come about, this will protect you more.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: All that's free of charge.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody else offers that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we want to know about their safety program.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: If we come up with some ideals and say, hey, have y'all ever tried this?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the customer doesn't have to do it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: We don't tell you how to run your business.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You tell us what you need from us.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's just more than just writing a piece of uh a policy with paper on it and send it to you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're very hands-on and we're very involved.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they love it.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: They absolutely love it because they want to be involved, they want to know what's going on.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: We we walk them through the renewal process.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: They love the claims meetings every quarter.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: They love that we're reviewing their contracts.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when we change two or three wordings and two of our big contractors and one of our little ones, and uh it's been very beneficial to them.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So all that is just key to keep their business going as well as to minimize the losses for them and to keep giving them the savings they get every year or every two years based on how many years of costs it's written.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure they yeah, they love having the the expertise, the advice because that it's got to be one area where you know a lot could go wrong.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're spending a lot of money on it, you you want to make sure it's gonna work right, and just having a team of experts that can can weigh in and say, hey, you know, you might want to consider uh this or this or, you know, or or like you said, looking at your safety program, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe need to do something a little bit different just to just to make sure you're you're doing the right thing.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to see if you could you mentioned some of the the high risk states, and it sounds like claims are are kind of what drives uh drives those the I guess the uh the premiums and the risk.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And do you still see declining uh renewal rates in those states?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we have we have them in New York, we have them in Florida, we have them in California.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um insurance rates are high, but yes, we're getting five, 10% rate decreases there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, we can give them as excess as they want, 20, 25 million or more.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, we are doing rate decreases there, and it's been great.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that I think helps too, we bring the underwriter to the client.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna meet their underwriter at least one time during that year.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when the underwriters are talking with the customers and you get a personal relationship going, then they know even if they have that bad claim, they'll look at it like, hey, they got all the programs in place.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're just this was a fluke.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was a one-time thing.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all about relationships in this business.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, like I said, I've had contractors call me three in the morning, answer, get them what they want.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Saturdays, I get them what they want.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, because at the end of the day, they're buying a product, they want to be protected, but they also want to be able to get the service from that product they're buying.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we got a great group of service team here.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they'll contact me.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I stay very involved in my clients from as soon as I write them to the renewal or during the year, go out there and visit them, take them to dinner.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very hands-on.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh as well as I'm hands-on with this program.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been very successful.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know what, we're looking to add as many that out there that wants to save money and have the best coverage out there, we're here for you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the one of the things I hear from people is uh, you know, maybe they're uh, you know, a 20-year, 30-year mechanic wants to start his own.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've heard this more than once, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: That man, insurance is is expensive.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: You got to have X thousand dollars ready just to just to start with the insurance piece.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give to a new new contractor?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe say maybe just starting out and wanting to start from scratch um when looking for insurance.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, how do how do they even begin to think about that?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I tell them to call call me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: We write a lot of new startups and have.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And most new startups are now or five, ten million dollar companies, but we have companies for them.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have two that they love it.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when they do start up like that, first thing we say, hey, we need a resume.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we know you never owned an elevator contractor company, but show us your resume.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're going to have all the experience they need.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's all the insurance companies want to know is hey, these guys have done it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: They've been there, so they know what they're doing.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we can put them together program.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's reasonable.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not outrageous.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: We can finance it, do finance agreements to them.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: We can take care of them.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: We just did one in Florida a month ago.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they were shocked because they were getting prices of, and it was just a startup,$40,000,$50,000, and we got it all done for$14,000.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we love startups.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, and I know this it shouldn't sound crazy, but we don't care if you're a$12,000 premium or two million dollar premium.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to treat you the same because one day you're going to be that$2 million premium.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're going to get the same thing as everybody else does.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: We treat everybody the same.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we love startups.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's amazing you mentioned that.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of startup elevator companies that just go through the roof after two to three years.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you think about all the buildings out there all across the United States, I mean, there's elevators everywhere.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even here in Louisville, Kentucky, we don't have high-rises, but we have a ton of elevators.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's neat seeing my clients that service some of the elevators here when I go in a building.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I see their sticker on it.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty cool.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And well, and that's one thing I love about this industry, is you mentioned startups, is there's a lot of entrepreneurial people, but uh but a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of entrepreneurship that, hey, once you kind of learn the basics, you you can really I say want to say write your own ticket.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can, you know, just there's so many innovative ways.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could be a contractor, but you can also, you know, invent a new product or some new software, or you know, there's there's a lot of ways to to work in the industry.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I I love that uh I just love that aspect of it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to ask you though, the uh you mentioned you know, just the industry, right, has has changed over the years.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the trends you're seeing kind of now and maybe even into the future with insurance and coverage and and that kind of risk?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd say the insurance, I'd say the excess market is shranking a little bit.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you have a lot of less players that want to write elevator contractors, especially in New York and California, Louisiana and Florida.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: The other states, not so much, but you're still limited.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But your excess market, as well as your auto market, you know, auto right now as a whole, for most insurance companies are you know 105, 110% or more loss ratio because of these nuclear verdicts, which are these big lawsuits.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: On the so the excess size is shrinking.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um the good thing for us, we can still get you as much limits as you need.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that um I think if the industry is going to have to do a better job of getting their hands around how they handle the claims because we have to limit these big verdicts.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think insurance companies have to pay more attention to them, be more proactive, and be out there.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, you know, again, you have to have the manpower, you have to have the people.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: No offense to insurance companies.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, insurance companies are great, but I think the more proactive you are, the better you're gonna see your loss ratios on your bottom line going forward.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the elevator industry, they're coming out with all these great new electronics, computers, gadgets, and stuff that really helps the insurance companies.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you got the videos on them, but you got this is what this is how it's running.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, uh sends a ding to the elevator contractor.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's something wrong with the elevator, it could shut it down, which prevents losses.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need you out there.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: So technology's getting a lot better for that industry, which is gonna help the insurance industry as well.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully they're pricing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, and what I'm hearing you say is, hey, we've got to be proactive, not only on on the claims.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like a kind of a a make or break, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're not paying attention, you're you're gonna get played.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna, you know, it's really gonna cost you because you you're not you don't know what you got, and then you know, you're gonna let it kind of mushroom and and grow into something you didn't want versus really getting out there, getting aggressive, like you say, and and it's gonna take some some investment up front, like I say, with the people and the training and the time, and but but it's gonna pay off in in huge dividends, is what it sounds like.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and not just for the insurance, but for the contractor and even for the riding public, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: If they feel like they're being taken care of, well then hey, they're being taken care of, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: They if then there's nothing more to do.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't need to wait for two years for somebody to get upset.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, that's uh it's a great insight.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: What amazed me real quick is and I've said this for years the tough industries like the elevator contractors do more on safety and prevention than your mom and pop carpenter.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or your mom and pop electrician, no offense to those guys, but everybody will write them forever.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You got a hundred insurance companies who want to write them.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: To me, if I'm an insurance company, just like the one that we got that's right and these now, I want to be the industry that pays the most attention and puts the time and the money involved to help prevent as many losses as they can because they know they appreciate it, they appreciate their program, they know that they can't afford those 20, 15 to 25% rate increases.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, and there's been some players that got in this market, they got some claims, they got scared, and they bolted.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would be if I was an institution, I'd want the tougher, tougher risk because you're gonna have the better safety programs, you're gonna have the better hands-on, and they'll listen to you and do what you need to do versus you know, ABC contractor that goes out and shops every year and they move you move for$500.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, kind of what I'm hearing you say is that that uh you know, if if you're an insurance provider, it it's not it's not a a get rich quick industry.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to to move in and and be part of it and get to know it and and and spend your time.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and yes, you can you can serve this niche and it'll work great for you, but don't expect to just come in and write it and and not pay attention to to what you're doing.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're exactly right.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very cool, very cool.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So as as we wrap up, um I just got I just got one more question for you, and that is if I were a contractor, you know, looking to learn more about your program or or maybe I'm considering, you know, starting a new company, where would I start?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just give me a call.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be my cell phone, so you can call me day or night and I'll walk you through the whole process.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um most of my customers that I didn't know were really personal friends now.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I really get heavily involved in my customers.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um so but I yeah, I can get you going from A to Z.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're an existing elevator contractor and you're seeing those rate increases, like I talked about, give us a call.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're saving people six figures on a lot of these, sometimes seven figures.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're very creative.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the program works.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have plenty of references to give you.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing I know about the elevator contractors, they all know each other, which is awesome.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'd be glad to let you call any of my clients and ask them anything you want.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, we'd love to talk to every any any and every one of them because uh this program works.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you great coverage, great pricing, and it allows you to expand your business because if your insurance is going down, then you got more money to do other things.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Buy autos, buy more equipment, whatever you need to grow your business.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're here for you.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds like it can do it without uh you know take away away a lot of that worry.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do I have the right insurance?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are these, you know, are there exclusions I don't know about?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh any any of that that that's taken away sounds like a win for everybody.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Alan, thank you for being on with me today.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I appreciate it very much.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks for the opportunity because uh it's a great industry.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love the elevator industry, and I hope to talk to many more that are having these pains in the insurance industry.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm kind of like your doc.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let me handle your insurance and you do what's great.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's do maintenance and new new elevators and mods and the whole work.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, but we're here for you.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: We hope that uh we uh love to talk to you and work with you.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for the opportunity, Matt.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: We really appreciate it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're doing a great job in the industry.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: We need more people like you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Matt.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it, Alan.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for listening to Elevator Tools and Tech from the Elevator Careers Podcast.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Please remember to check out InsuraMax to learn more about the benefits you can receive from their Elevator Insurance Solutions.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can find them online at Insuramax.com or give Alan Jones a call at 502 648 7496.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, stay safe.