Latest / Merryn Talks Money / SpaceX Fever, Bitcoin's Bad Week and How to Get the UK Investing

Transcript

SpaceX Fever, Bitcoin's Bad Week and How to Get the UK Investing · Merryn Talks Money

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
0:18
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Merton Talks Money Market Wrap, where we
0:20
Speaker 2: talk about the biggest moves and markets this week and
0:22
Speaker 2: watch driving them. I'm joined Stepic, senior reporter and author
0:25
Speaker 2: of the Moneyed Still newsletter, in for Merden this week
0:28
Speaker 2: because she's away this week. Join me in studio is
0:30
Speaker 2: Sam Unstead, who is the editor of the Markets Today blog,
0:33
Speaker 2: which you should all be following religiously. Can access it
0:37
Speaker 2: from the Bloomberg homepage. Are also from our new Bloomberg
0:40
Speaker 2: Money page, which launched this week. Sam, thank you once
0:45
Speaker 2: again for joining this. And Oh, there are so many
0:49
Speaker 2: things that we could talk about, but I think we
0:52
Speaker 2: will start off with SpaceX.
0:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
0:56
Speaker 2: So we got a price now, haven't we. Well, what
1:00
Speaker 2: they want to is what they hope they will get.
1:02
Speaker 3: We know what they want to raise, which is seventy
1:05
Speaker 3: five billion dollars, so the biggest IPO ever. You know,
1:10
Speaker 3: there is so much writing going on about SpaceX right
1:14
Speaker 3: now because this is and it is an enormous story.
1:17
Speaker 1: It's an it's sort.
1:18
Speaker 3: Of a both incredible and incredibly weird company. You know,
1:22
Speaker 3: they they do chatbots, they do rockets, they do satellites.
1:26
Speaker 3: They want to put data centers, yeah fatally, yeah, yeah,
1:31
Speaker 3: they want to have data centers orbiting the Earth. And
1:33
Speaker 3: I mean I was, you know, building a data center
1:35
Speaker 3: on Earth is quite hard, so then getting it up
1:38
Speaker 3: into space is going to be difficult too. But enormous
1:42
Speaker 3: you know, potential addressable market. All these kind of huge
1:45
Speaker 3: numbers being thrown around. Also though a huge amount of
1:48
Speaker 3: it is going to retail investors being offered potentially up
1:51
Speaker 3: to a third of it. Yeah, we retail invests. That
1:54
Speaker 3: is an enormous amount of money, you know, getting on
1:56
Speaker 3: for nearly what twenty close to twenty five billion dollars
2:00
Speaker 3: retail investors. So it's going to be a huge test
2:03
Speaker 3: of the momentum in markets.
2:05
Speaker 2: Because one of the things that everyone's been talking about
2:07
Speaker 2: and I think makes an awful lot of sense in
2:10
Speaker 2: Martin Levine obviously for Bloomberg, is very good on this
2:13
Speaker 2: sort of thing, is the I guess the amount of
2:19
Speaker 2: artificial potential to mind for these shares, because I'm right
2:25
Speaker 2: in saying that the big in disease, a lot of them,
2:28
Speaker 2: not all of them, but at the big indsees have
2:30
Speaker 2: largely been relaxing the entry rules for IPOs of the
2:36
Speaker 2: same size as space. Yeah, so we got to get
2:39
Speaker 2: into in the IPOs and things like Anthropic that coming
2:41
Speaker 2: down the pipe will basically be able to go into
2:44
Speaker 2: big in disease almost straight away or within a few
2:47
Speaker 2: weeks or even a few days of trading.
2:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:51
Speaker 3: Well, may it may actually be a bit more complicated
2:53
Speaker 3: than that once we get round to it, because we
2:55
Speaker 3: are talking about an enormous amount of extra capital going
2:59
Speaker 3: into the market, and so you know, the SMP or
3:02
Speaker 3: the NASDAQ one hundred, you know, in the US may
3:05
Speaker 3: have to sort of really rethink the whole way that
3:08
Speaker 3: it's weighted, not not just because of space expec you
3:10
Speaker 3: just mentioned Open AI, Anthropic. You know, between those three companies,
3:14
Speaker 3: you're talking three and a half four trillion dollars worth
3:16
Speaker 3: of company. You know, that's that's a lot. You know,
3:19
Speaker 3: it's more than the entire size of the foot see
3:21
Speaker 3: one hundred. So it is unfortunately, but it is you know,
3:26
Speaker 3: it is a it's not just a test really of
3:30
Speaker 3: investors and their appetite to keep buying these kind of things.
3:33
Speaker 3: You know, these kind of you know, particularly the AI story.
3:36
Speaker 3: You know, when it comes to SpaceX and the data
3:38
Speaker 3: center side of things, as well as the kind of
3:40
Speaker 3: space aspect to it. It's a test of how the
3:44
Speaker 3: market can handle it, literally, how the structure of the
3:47
Speaker 3: market can handle this sort of size of company coming on,
3:51
Speaker 3: whether it starts to impact trading in other things. You know,
3:53
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, because we don't know because
3:55
Speaker 3: we haven't seen it happen yet. You may well get
3:58
Speaker 3: more money coming in from wealthier investors that can that
4:00
Speaker 3: can eat up a lot of the extra capital that
4:02
Speaker 3: that's coming onto the market. But it's going to be
4:04
Speaker 3: a really complicated thing for for all of the index
4:07
Speaker 3: providers to to put these companies on there.
4:09
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I suppose one thing I've been thinking, and
4:12
Speaker 2: I know again I'm not unique in suggesting this, but
4:15
Speaker 2: if anything might for one of a bit about break
4:18
Speaker 2: passive investing, this could be the thing that does it. Yeah,
4:24
Speaker 2: in terms of tilting, I guess tilting them. But you've
4:28
Speaker 2: already got huge sector concentration. I mean, so if you
4:33
Speaker 2: just lump another massively eye company and on top of
4:36
Speaker 2: the rest of them, yeah, then you know you're kind
4:39
Speaker 2: of turning the end of seas at one big concentrated
4:41
Speaker 2: bit or in a very specific sector. And then also
4:45
Speaker 2: that's where a huge chunker, not just the US but
4:48
Speaker 2: the world's pension money is setting as well.
4:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a really good point actually, And actually
4:53
Speaker 3: when you look at the the S and P five
4:55
Speaker 3: hundred over the course of sort of this year and
4:57
Speaker 3: actually it's going back sort of a year or so,
5:00
Speaker 3: almost all of the gains are AI stocks. If you
5:02
Speaker 3: take out the AI stocks, almost basically everything else is
5:05
Speaker 3: just sat there, you know. And so you're right that
5:08
Speaker 3: it's not just a concentration in big technology companies, which
5:10
Speaker 3: is which already exists.
5:11
Speaker 1: Right.
5:12
Speaker 3: So the kind of like the trillion trillion plus cohort
5:15
Speaker 3: in the US, you know, is already making up about
5:18
Speaker 3: nearly a third of the S and P five hundred,
5:21
Speaker 3: So that's still a lot of concentration risking is kind
5:23
Speaker 3: of what ten to fifteen stocks, So already you have
5:26
Speaker 3: that if you then concentrate it even further to just
5:28
Speaker 3: one industry and SpaceX. You know, one of the things
5:32
Speaker 3: that's going to be debated very strongly with SpaceX is
5:36
Speaker 3: that they're looking for evaluation, which is just by any standard,
5:39
Speaker 3: absolutely enormous, right, and they make I think it's about
5:44
Speaker 3: in their last filing it was eighteen point seven billion
5:46
Speaker 3: dollars of revenue, so their revenue multiple would be absolutely enormous.
5:52
Speaker 3: So to deliver on that, you know, is going to
5:54
Speaker 3: be very complicated. But then, I mean you and I
5:56
Speaker 3: have actually spoken about this previously. Valuing a company where
6:01
Speaker 3: Elon Musk is is really hard because there is a
6:04
Speaker 3: kind of intangible thing that he brings to it, you know,
6:07
Speaker 3: you know, that is a bit beyond kind of traditional
6:10
Speaker 3: metrics on how to has value. At Tesla, for example,
6:14
Speaker 3: their share price is just completely divorced from their earnings.
6:17
Speaker 3: You know, so what SpaceX does you know, when you're
6:20
Speaker 3: looking at funded against the fundamentals, may ultimately not really
6:23
Speaker 3: be the question.
6:24
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right.
6:25
Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting because I do think the Musk
6:28
Speaker 2: then he clearly has an extraordinary talent, and he has
6:32
Speaker 2: built some extraordinary companies. And then you know, for all
6:36
Speaker 2: that he's got his critiques, he's also not just you know,
6:40
Speaker 2: he's not a chiant in terms of now there's a
6:43
Speaker 2: lot of concrete stuff behind them. And I suppose the
6:46
Speaker 2: other interesting thing with Tesla is that you know, law no, no,
6:52
Speaker 2: I mean I think it's fairly see it is the
6:54
Speaker 2: company that put the electric car on the mark, and
6:58
Speaker 2: without him, the electric cars would almost certainly not have
7:01
Speaker 2: taken off. And that's you know that there's a kind
7:03
Speaker 2: of historic counterfactor there, and anyone that cares about the
7:07
Speaker 2: environment should probably be very grateful to them. In fact,
7:09
Speaker 2: But now Tesla has competition from lots of other electric
7:13
Speaker 2: car manufacturers. It also is competition from lots of other
7:16
Speaker 2: self drive manufacturers, and yet it still manages to not
7:21
Speaker 2: succumb to any kind of fundamental I suppose. Yeah, And
7:26
Speaker 2: I mean, as you say, it's one thing to think,
7:30
Speaker 2: I mean, you might have faith in SpaceX because of
7:33
Speaker 2: Tesla defying gravity all the time, but you are kind
7:36
Speaker 2: of like, also, well, look, Tesla by now should really
7:39
Speaker 2: is at least there is a context, there's a world
7:42
Speaker 2: in which you can say, well, this is where the
7:44
Speaker 2: valuation should be. You know, this is you know, he's
7:47
Speaker 2: got competition from everywhere else, and it's not as if
7:49
Speaker 2: he's doing it and else with Tesla. That yeah, adds
7:52
Speaker 2: that kind of you know gennes qua. So I just
7:57
Speaker 2: I just wonder where it is exactly he's got going
8:00
Speaker 2: for them, apart from people just think, oh well, look,
8:02
Speaker 2: if he's in it, then there must be yeah something.
8:05
Speaker 3: Now, I think the big difference you have to remember,
8:07
Speaker 3: I suppose with Tesla. I mean that Tesla make cars, right, Yeah,
8:11
Speaker 3: we are a car one yeah, so like and they
8:13
Speaker 3: just made it electric, right, so they it's I agree
8:15
Speaker 3: with you, it's I don't. I don't think we'd be
8:17
Speaker 3: anywhere near where we are on EVS without without Tesla
8:19
Speaker 3: having kind of boomed and kind of pulled everyone in
8:21
Speaker 3: that direction. But you know, SpaceX that the AI part
8:25
Speaker 3: of the business, you know, is already extremely competitive with
8:29
Speaker 3: companies that are enormous and incredibly you know powerful, will
8:32
Speaker 3: probably list later in the years, we said, anthropic, open AI,
8:34
Speaker 3: et cetera, backed by a lot of the biggest companies
8:37
Speaker 3: in the world as well, so'd be hard for them
8:39
Speaker 3: to compete there. And then the other side of it
8:40
Speaker 3: is space, and like I said, it is it is
8:43
Speaker 3: involving things like taking a data center, and look, data
8:47
Speaker 3: centers are really big, you know, they are massive, and
8:50
Speaker 3: so getting that up into space is it's an incredible
8:54
Speaker 3: idea and if he pulls it off, it would be
8:56
Speaker 3: astonishing though whether he can pull that off in his
8:59
Speaker 3: lifetime even is you know, debatable. So it's a very
9:03
Speaker 3: different type of story, but there is across both this
9:06
Speaker 3: just intangible kind of musk premium that's on the valuation
9:10
Speaker 3: and whether that holds for SpaceX as it does for Tesla,
9:13
Speaker 3: we'll find out next week.
9:15
Speaker 2: Yes, we're looking forward to it. Speaking of tangible orders
9:22
Speaker 2: and fallibility and questions about how do you value these things?
9:27
Speaker 2: Bat coins that are terrible and as they said, the terrible, Yeah,
9:32
Speaker 2: it is. Basically I was looking down mark kin a
9:35
Speaker 2: Bloomberg list of you know, prices to watch and yet
9:38
Speaker 2: today is down about thirty percent and that kind of
9:41
Speaker 2: basically makes it like, well within the bottom ten what's
9:45
Speaker 2: performing major assets on the planet this year?
9:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know there there are potentially kind of
9:51
Speaker 3: quite a few reasons as to why that is. You know,
9:53
Speaker 3: I think, particularly the most recent kind of shift, I
9:57
Speaker 3: think a bit of momentum has gone out of it. Right, so,
9:59
Speaker 3: you know, to Donald Trump got in and as it
10:01
Speaker 3: sort of hit some highs, it was a sort of
10:03
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty four five
10:05
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. You know, a lot of that was this
10:07
Speaker 3: institutional money coming in. You know, sort of giving credibility
10:11
Speaker 3: to a market that previously had really struggled with credibility
10:13
Speaker 3: that's now there. And so you could argue that there's
10:16
Speaker 3: an element of it where just the air has gone
10:18
Speaker 3: out of it, and maybe a bitcoin is.
10:19
Speaker 1: Sort of a bit boring.
10:20
Speaker 3: It's not as interesting as it used to be and
10:23
Speaker 3: not as exciting. And some of that may also be
10:25
Speaker 3: because of AAI. You know, the amount of money that's
10:30
Speaker 3: being spent on AI is so astronomically enormous, you know,
10:34
Speaker 3: I mean to the point where you know, it's another
10:37
Speaker 3: big story. Over this week, Alphabet is raising eighty billion
10:41
Speaker 3: dollars in a stop offering in order to back their
10:45
Speaker 3: AI spending. That that is just so out of the
10:49
Speaker 3: realms of what Alphabet do. It's just not something that
10:52
Speaker 3: normally happens.
10:52
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that they sneaked it before space. It's
10:56
Speaker 2: hard well because they're basically sitting They're going, yeah, moved,
10:58
Speaker 2: he's going to have any money or left?
11:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bit bit on.
11:02
Speaker 3: But that's just one stock offering by one company. This
11:04
Speaker 3: enormous amount of debt that that you know, next year,
11:07
Speaker 3: there's a blue Bug Intelligence forecast that next year that
11:11
Speaker 3: capex spending by the hyperscalers will hit a trillion dollars
11:13
Speaker 3: for the year, you know, not total, that's just for
11:16
Speaker 3: next year. That is pulling so much attention and so
11:21
Speaker 3: much capital, so much money that places like Bitcoin that
11:24
Speaker 3: used to be this kind of like this is the
11:27
Speaker 3: new way to do finance, This is going to change everything.
11:30
Speaker 3: Just that excitement maybe has gone out of it a
11:32
Speaker 3: little bit. And then it's it's maybe also acting in
11:37
Speaker 3: a way that it wasn't at the beginning of the
11:38
Speaker 3: year as a risk asset again. You know, they had
11:40
Speaker 3: this little moment last year, this question of you know,
11:43
Speaker 3: do we still buy the dollar, which it turns out
11:46
Speaker 3: you do, and you know where bitcoin benefited from that
11:50
Speaker 3: bit Bitcoin and gold of course at the time, and
11:53
Speaker 3: maybe that's gone out of it too. You know, maybe
11:55
Speaker 3: again people have thought are actually gold and bitcoin aren't
11:58
Speaker 3: the same, you know.
11:59
Speaker 1: So yeah.
12:12
Speaker 2: The other thing that so this week was Michael Saylor
12:15
Speaker 2: of well I used to be call my micro strategy
12:19
Speaker 2: micro strategy and now it's called strategy. And so he
12:22
Speaker 2: sold I mean, compared to his bitcoin stash, it was
12:26
Speaker 2: a handful of bitcoins, but it was thirty two bitcoin
12:30
Speaker 2: and he's meant to be mister diamond hands buying Hoddle forever.
12:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, four years.
12:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's got the knock up a bit
12:41
Speaker 2: of the window of people's sales with the thought. But yes,
12:45
Speaker 2: I guess we shall see what happens with that one
12:49
Speaker 2: and then turn into oh god, there's a great There
12:52
Speaker 2: was a great quote in one of our colleagues kind
12:56
Speaker 2: of columns this week, Lionel Laurent who walks out of Bryan,
13:00
Speaker 2: and he'd written a piece about basically who Europe doesn't
13:04
Speaker 2: create big companies. They sort of you know, it's something
13:07
Speaker 2: we all complain about a bit. And there was talking
13:09
Speaker 2: about risk a version and he quoted this anonymous banker saying, yeah,
13:14
Speaker 2: in the US, if he asked to buy a risky
13:16
Speaker 2: I said, they will sort of give you something amazing,
13:18
Speaker 2: like in the video or something. And he said, if
13:21
Speaker 2: you're do in Europe, they'll give you guilts. Okay, so
13:26
Speaker 2: have a high risk as Yeah. So, speaking of which again,
13:30
Speaker 2: we saw there was a story out today kind of
13:32
Speaker 2: like the EI Top Points saying, yeah, the government should
13:36
Speaker 2: be persuading the likes of you and I to stick
13:39
Speaker 2: more of our savings into guilts. Yeah, so what's the
13:41
Speaker 2: story here.
13:42
Speaker 3: Well, kind of this is kind of an eternal debate.
13:45
Speaker 3: It feels like it's an internal debate in the UK,
13:47
Speaker 3: which is trying to get people in the UK at
13:50
Speaker 3: the moment just sort of keep their money in their
13:52
Speaker 3: current accounts, sometimes not even in ices or savings accounts,
13:55
Speaker 3: just sat there earning a pretty pretty small amount of
13:57
Speaker 3: interest to get them to invest, you know, in the market.
14:01
Speaker 3: This there's a big push to do stocks previously. This
14:04
Speaker 3: isn't a government push. This is the government being urged
14:06
Speaker 3: to do something. And gilts have become quite a bit
14:09
Speaker 3: more popular with retail investors over the course of the
14:11
Speaker 3: list because yields are pretty high, you know, and so
14:15
Speaker 3: they have got more popular, but certainly nowhere near the
14:18
Speaker 3: kind of investment kind of depth that you would see
14:21
Speaker 3: see in the US. So there's a push yet because
14:23
Speaker 3: there's about two trillion pounds deposits that could be put
14:26
Speaker 3: to work in the guilt market. And you know, the
14:30
Speaker 3: argument is perfectly sensible, right, you will get a much
14:33
Speaker 3: better return from buying gilts than you will from leaving
14:36
Speaker 3: your money into posits, no question, That is no question.
14:38
Speaker 3: Even if gilts have the best year they've had in
14:41
Speaker 3: well maybe ever you'll still get a better return from
14:44
Speaker 3: buying Gilts. But one of the things that puts I
14:47
Speaker 3: think in a lot of investors off buying stocks is volatility.
14:50
Speaker 3: You know, and UK investors in general are just enormously
14:54
Speaker 3: risk averse. They are just very frightened of this idea
14:56
Speaker 3: of stocks going up and down, which I can tell
14:59
Speaker 3: you they do every single day. And Gilts, particularly in
15:03
Speaker 3: the last couple of months, have been much more volatile
15:05
Speaker 3: because of the you know, the war in Iran and
15:07
Speaker 3: the inflationary effects and the shift in the in the
15:09
Speaker 3: Bank of England curve that's happened. So the daily moves
15:11
Speaker 3: are much more significant. They I mean, if anything, they
15:14
Speaker 3: sort of backed, you know, they look a little bit
15:15
Speaker 3: like stocks know them at the moment. So getting people
15:18
Speaker 3: to do that is just so hard, you know. And
15:22
Speaker 3: you know, John, you've writ about this extensively your career, probably,
15:27
Speaker 3: but it is. It is really complex because I was
15:31
Speaker 3: I was saying on the desk earlier today that I
15:34
Speaker 3: think in order to actually get this behavioral change to happen,
15:37
Speaker 3: you sort of need kind of everything to all go
15:40
Speaker 3: in a kind of positive direction all at once. For
15:43
Speaker 3: an extended period of time, and that has not happened
15:46
Speaker 3: in this country for a long time.
15:48
Speaker 2: I mean, I do want it. I think sim in
15:51
Speaker 2: French over at time, your liberalm who comes on and
15:53
Speaker 2: fairly often said recently sort of like suggested that one
15:58
Speaker 2: thing the government could do if they basically made gilts
16:03
Speaker 2: h T Yeah, and I think that would work really well.
16:07
Speaker 2: I agree, yeah, And actually I almost think that politically
16:11
Speaker 2: it's one of those things that you could because obviously
16:14
Speaker 2: one reason that they don't cut high HD apart from
16:17
Speaker 2: you know, they need the money. But obviously it's very
16:21
Speaker 2: easy to paint that as a tax cut for the
16:23
Speaker 2: ultra wealthy. But if you say, well this demonstrates patriotism
16:30
Speaker 2: and on therefore you should be rewarded for it, then
16:33
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's actually an easy political self,
16:36
Speaker 2: particularly because if you actually got two trillions worth of
16:40
Speaker 2: cash going into the gilt market, then you know, you
16:43
Speaker 2: could probly turn and say, well, the amount of money
16:45
Speaker 2: that's going to knock off the interest right that we pay, yeah,
16:49
Speaker 2: he's going to save us more and become we make
16:51
Speaker 2: from IHD. So I mean, maybe, you know, I think
16:54
Speaker 2: if you just dangle the right carrot for the people.
16:58
Speaker 3: I actually I don't disagree with that. I think that,
17:01
Speaker 3: but but I think the problem, unfortunately, this is just
17:04
Speaker 3: an eternal problem here. It certainly has been for a
17:06
Speaker 3: for a for an extended period of time now is
17:09
Speaker 3: that getting the government to make a move like that
17:12
Speaker 3: is just incredibly difficult because they they almost feel hamstrung
17:15
Speaker 3: on just almost on every measure they possibly could. So
17:18
Speaker 3: when they're launching this new you know, this new campaign
17:21
Speaker 3: to get people to invest, they've got.
17:22
Speaker 1: This savvy the squirrel, you.
17:24
Speaker 3: Know, which is the kind of thing that in the UK,
17:27
Speaker 3: I think investors just think is really silly and and
17:30
Speaker 3: they don't you know, they therefore don't really take it
17:32
Speaker 3: very seriously. And I think there must be a kind
17:35
Speaker 3: of better way to communicate these things. The slight optimism
17:40
Speaker 3: I would have that maybe it's going to start to shift.
17:42
Speaker 3: Return investing has grown here, you know, not you know,
17:45
Speaker 3: it has you know, quite a reasonable pace.
17:48
Speaker 2: You know, it's not it's not as much the we
17:50
Speaker 2: stand though it has been ultra risks stands having a
17:54
Speaker 2: very ag key to highly involved population. They have to
17:58
Speaker 2: do the tax.
18:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's true.
18:02
Speaker 3: I mean across Europe it's a pretty similar picture. And actually,
18:06
Speaker 3: you know, we do have a really strong financial services
18:09
Speaker 3: sector here, so there are lots of providers and there
18:11
Speaker 3: is good, you know, decent competition in it and it
18:13
Speaker 3: is increasing. I think what may start to help a
18:17
Speaker 3: little bit is there's another really good story that was
18:19
Speaker 3: on the terminal this this week about the housing market.
18:23
Speaker 3: You know that that you know, millennial home buyers, you know,
18:26
Speaker 3: you bought some sort of ten years ago. The entire
18:29
Speaker 3: dynamic that they brought into I'm going to buy this
18:31
Speaker 3: house and this is going to be my this is
18:32
Speaker 3: going to help me to build my wealth over the
18:34
Speaker 3: course of my lifetime has been you know, totally upended.
18:37
Speaker 3: And if that is the case, because for such a
18:39
Speaker 3: long time, that's how you built wealth in the UK
18:42
Speaker 3: is you bought a house. If that stops being the
18:45
Speaker 3: being the case and doesn't certainly in the short term,
18:49
Speaker 3: doesn't look like it's going to turn round, then that
18:52
Speaker 3: may well prompt people to start thinking, oh, okay, well
18:54
Speaker 3: what else can I do? And there are lots of
18:57
Speaker 3: options to do that, and if you do start to
18:59
Speaker 3: then see a bit more appetite, that might push you know,
19:03
Speaker 3: the government order on the stock exchange of various different
19:05
Speaker 3: stakeholders to maybe make some slightly more radical moves.
19:09
Speaker 2: I think that's a really good point actually, because something
19:11
Speaker 2: if something wrote recently based on some research from Schroeders
19:16
Speaker 2: that Dunk and La want over there just going to
19:18
Speaker 2: like pull together number the numbers that show that buying
19:21
Speaker 2: large investment in the stock market would be investing in
19:24
Speaker 2: property in the UK. And what I was a guest
19:27
Speaker 2: surprised about was there just wasn't that much pushback. And
19:32
Speaker 2: that's not something like I mean if you've written that
19:34
Speaker 2: even even ten years ago, let alone twenty years ago.
19:37
Speaker 2: In fact, I remember writing something like that about twenty
19:40
Speaker 2: years ago and the amount of you know, venom and
19:43
Speaker 2: how could you possibly say this? Yeah so yeah, so
19:47
Speaker 2: I mean that is you're right. I think that's if
19:50
Speaker 2: people start to realize that, well, you know, your house
19:52
Speaker 2: is not going to be your pension and it hasn't
19:55
Speaker 2: been for a long time. Yeah, well what you left
19:57
Speaker 2: wy you know, you're going to have to take a
19:58
Speaker 2: shot of stocks.
19:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as you've written about this week as well,
20:02
Speaker 3: this Pension's UK report that came out about what you
20:04
Speaker 3: would you know, the estimate you would need for this moderate.
20:07
Speaker 3: You know, it's a comfortable amount of money for retirement.
20:10
Speaker 3: I mean if assuming that people are indeed reading that,
20:13
Speaker 3: I think some eyes will be opened. Yeah, you know,
20:16
Speaker 3: it's I would I would argue that it is still
20:19
Speaker 3: it's not a disaster like you know, as I think
20:22
Speaker 3: you've argued as well, John, it would it's okay, like yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,
20:27
Speaker 3: don't panic about it. But I would hope that would
20:31
Speaker 3: prompt some people to think about these and I wonder
20:33
Speaker 3: whether that is the thing that will start this behavioral change.
20:36
Speaker 3: But you know, in the end as well, in the UK,
20:40
Speaker 3: to be blunt, we're often just really cynical and miserable
20:43
Speaker 3: about all these things, and we we are not. We
20:45
Speaker 3: just feel as though if I put my money there,
20:47
Speaker 3: I'm probably gonna lose it, and so I'll just keep
20:49
Speaker 3: it in an account. So it's such a complex behavioral
20:53
Speaker 3: change that's required, but I'm optimistic. I think it could happen.
20:57
Speaker 1: Exactly.
20:57
Speaker 2: I don't know. We other get in that center as
20:59
Speaker 2: in form women, there's none ever on this podcast. Thanks
21:03
Speaker 2: very much, Sam, really appreciate your time again and where
21:06
Speaker 2: can people find you? Markets Today?
21:08
Speaker 3: Markets Today Live Blog, which, as he's mentioned. You can
21:10
Speaker 3: get to you from the homepage and from the New
21:12
Speaker 3: Money vertical on.
21:13
Speaker 2: The website smoothly down. Thanks for listening to this week's
21:28
Speaker 2: Men and Talks Money Debrief. If you like a show,
21:30
Speaker 2: rate review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, be
21:33
Speaker 2: sure to follow me on X or Twitter at joint
21:35
Speaker 2: Underscores topic. This episode isroduced by Summer, Sadi and Mosses
21:39
Speaker 2: and questions and comments on the show and all the
21:42
Speaker 2: shows always welcome. Our show email is Melon Money at
21:45
Speaker 2: bloomberb dot and het and a very special thanks again
21:48
Speaker 2: to Sam Unstead. Sam, where can we follow you on X?
21:52
Speaker 3: On the well most of these days on LinkedIn LinkedIn
21:55
Speaker 3: of course, but on the Markets Today livelog, which is
22:00
Speaker 3: on the UK website
22:10
Speaker 1: M