Latest / Pod Save America / “One Flew Over the Coup-Coup’s Nest.”

Transcript

“One Flew Over the Coup-Coup’s Nest.” · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys!
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: On today's pod, the one and only Stacey Abrams talks
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: to Dan about how Democrats can win in Georgia and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: all over the country. Before that, we'll talk about why
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump is still refusing to concede an election he
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: lost badly, the Republican politicians who refuse to do anything
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: about it, and how President-elect Biden is handling all of this.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: But first... Don't miss this week's Pod Save the World,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: where Tommy and Ben talk about how world leaders reacted
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: to Joe Biden's victory and why British Prime Minister Boris
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Johnson is a shape-shifting creep, which is what Tommy called him,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: which is now a hashtag that's just been trending on Twitter.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Tommy caused an international incident, which we love. We love
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: crooked media causing international incidents. Ben also talked with a
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: former Mexican ambassador to the United States about what the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: election is going to mean for one of America's most
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: important diplomatic relationship. So check that out. Also, exciting news.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Adopt-a-State Georgia is here. Control of the U.S. Senate will
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: come down to two runoff elections in Georgia on January 5th.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: John Asa versus David Perdue and Raphael Warnock versus Kelly Loeffler.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: These will be tough races. But Joe Biden did beat
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump in Georgia, so the votes are there. Help
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: us find them at votesaveamerica.com slash Georgia, where we will
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: send you all the info you need to volunteer and
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: support organizers on the ground. I received word that since
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: it launched this morning, already 6,000 people signed up. So
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: what are you waiting for?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: You received word? Was it a message in a bottle?
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Did a raven come from.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It was a telegraph from Michael Martinez, actually. That's how
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I got it. It was in my inbox.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, that is antiquated.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: All right, let's get to the news. I want all
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of you to know that Dan titled this part of
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the outline, Coup Update. So a coup update you shall have.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It has been nearly a week since every major media
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: outlet in the country called the race for Joe Biden.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: And most world leaders have already reached out to congratulate him.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: The president-elect is on track to win 306 electoral votes.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: He's ahead by tens of thousands of votes in each
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: of the closest battleground states. And he's on track to
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: have the biggest popular vote margin of any challenger to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: an incumbent president since FDR beat Herbert Hoover. Election officials
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: in both parties told the New York Times there has
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: been zero evidence of fraud or other irregularities, and the
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Trump campaign legal team is now 0 for 12 in
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: their post-election court cases. And yet, Donald Trump refuses to concede.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: One Republican close to the White House told the Daily Beast, quote,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: It's like dealing with a lunatic on the subway. Everyone
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: just kind of sits and stares ahead, pretends they can't
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: hear him, and waits for him to eventually get off.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: A great quote, I will say. The brilliant Tanya Sominator
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: at Crooked Media responded to that quote last night and said, yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the difference is we're all on the subway and he's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: driving it. We're stuck with him on the subway right now,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: which is true. Dan, what's going on here? Even if
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Trump is unlikely to ever actually concede, why hasn't he
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: at least acknowledged the results and allowed the transition to begin?
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: Because he is a small, sad, particularly stupid, petty person?
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Let's move on.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: It's like there's nothing surprising about what Trump is doing.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: We sort of knew he would do this because as
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: we know, he raised completely false fraud allegations and contested
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: the results in the election he won in 2016. So
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: how did we expect him to respond to an election
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: he lost?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Undermining the integrity and legitimacy of our elections is one
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: of Trump's favorite things to do and has always been
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: one of his favorite things to do. This is why
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about how alarmed we should be.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Whatever level of alarm people should have, I don't know
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: why anyone is surprised. There is absolutely nothing surprising about
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: what's happening right now. We heard of him as a
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: political figure because he accused President Obama of being illegitimate.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: He accused Ted Cruz of cheating in the 2016 primaries
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: in Iowa when Trump lost Iowa. He welcomed Russian interference
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: in the 2016 election. He tried to cheat in that election,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and then, as you said, when he won that election—
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: He still said it was fraudulent. He still made up
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a complete conspiracy about undocumented immigrants voting. I mean, he
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: does this all the time. He has done this throughout
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: his entire career. His favorite thing to do, one of
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: his favorite things to do is to challenge the legitimacy
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of elections, particularly elections that he loses, but sometimes ones
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: he wins. Yes. I mean, I thought it was interesting
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: this morning. Peter Alexander at NBC News said, A top
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: White House aide told him that Trump is, quote, very
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: aware there is not a path to victory, but he
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: believes the 72 million people who voted for him, quote,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: deserve a fight. So he's battling as a form of, quote,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: theater for them. He's putting on theater for his voters
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: because he knows he lost, but he wants to pretend
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: he won so that they still like him.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Look, if there's anything you can say about Donald Trump
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: is that he is a selfless person. Who would humiliate
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: himself in the present and in the history books in
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: order to do right by the people who support him.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, he is putting the country through hell in
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: service of his own fragile ego, which is also the
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: story of the entire last four years. It is the
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: story of the pandemic. It is the story of the recession.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: It is the story of every single one of his policies.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And now it is the story of him refusing to concede.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: post-election he is just he refuses to acknowledge reality because
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: his ego won't let him and he doesn't want to
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: go down in history as a loser which he is
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a loser he lost um so i want to talk
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: about the consequences of trump refusing to concede in the
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: short term obviously the transition becomes much harder for the
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: biden harris administration in the long term we can talk
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: about this later There is real damage to our democracy
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: from half the country believing Trump's lies that the election
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: was stolen from him, severe damage. But I think what's
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: worrying people the most right now is the possibility that
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: somehow Donald Trump could figure out a way to remain
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: in office by overturning the results of the election through
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: some combination of legal challenges, fraud investigations, the actions of
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Republican-controlled state legislatures, or the actions of Republicans in Congress.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I want to get into both the legal strategy and
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: then sort of the state legislature's thing. But Dan, why
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: don't you talk about sort of your overall level of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: concern around 2020 ending with a coup?
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: As we always say, you know, my 2020 motto was
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: worry about everything, kind of a kind of thing. We've
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: talked about it a thousand times. The way the last
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: week has gone has suggested that we're probably going to
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: have to keep that edict in place for a while longer.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: So I.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: I don't blame anyone for being worried about anything or
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: this in particular because like for years people have said
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: this cannot happen and then it absolutely happens. Like Trump
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: cannot win the 2016 election and then he does. But
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: when you dig into the process, it becomes very clear
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: that it is nearly impossible for Trump to pull this off.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: The logistical– political, legal, mathematical hurdles to doing it are
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: just so incredibly high that I think it's just important
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: to put that in perspective, which was we should be concerned.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Nothing is impossible. Nothing is impossible in the Trump era
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: of politics. But some things are much closer to impossible
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: than other things. And Trump stealing this election from Joe
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Biden and Kamala Harris is pretty damn close to impossible.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I think it's most useful to focus not on what
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Trump wants to do, which is steal the election. Of course,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: he wants to do that. But what he's actually doing
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: and how our institutions are currently responding. I think that
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: is probably the best way to go here. So let's
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: start with what can be very loosely defined as a
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: legal strategy from the Trump campaign. Here's how Biden campaign
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: legal advisor Bob Bauer described what the Trump folks are
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: doing during a public briefing this week.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: The purpose of the briefing today is to put in
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: perspective some of what you're reading and hearing about, which
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: is noise, not really law.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Patrick's not really lawsuits.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Dan, why do you think Bob sounds so confident there?
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: I fucking love Bob Bauer. He is the ultimate badass.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: No one ever more calmly– just delivers absolute devastating derision
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: than Bob Bauer. And he's exactly right here. He sounds
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: wrong because.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: The- We should tell people that we have both been
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: on many campaigns with Bob Bauer. He is a Democratic
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: super lawyer, election lawyer. He was also a White House counsel.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So we've worked with Bob a lot and he is
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: in fact- a badass lawyer.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I've worked with Bob. I've actually worked with Bob on
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: a statewide recount before. So I've been down this road
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: with him. And there is no, Republicans have no legal argument.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: The lawyers who are making these cases are almost embarrassed
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: to do so. I mean, they should have been too
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: embarrassed to take the fucking case to begin with. But
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: as you said at the beginning of this, they were
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: 0 for 12. They are alleging something that there is
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: no evidence of. They can, when pushed by the judges,
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: provide no evidence of fraud. And even if they could
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: provide evidence of fraud, the margins in these states are
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: so large that this is inconsequential. And so it is,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: as Bob put out, theater. And Peter Alexander, who must
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: have one hell of a source in the White House,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: also reported the other day that a White House aide
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: told him that it is not incorrect for the Biden
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: campaign to refer to these lawsuits as theater because they
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: are theatrics. And so it's a bunch of bullshit that
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I think is being proven to be bullshit at every
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: step of the way. We've seen no evidence that anyone
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: is taking this seriously.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of really great reporters who are
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: covering these legal proceedings, and I would really encourage everyone
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: to pay attention to what the Trump campaign lawyers are
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: saying in court versus what Trump's goons are saying from
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: the safety of their Twitter feeds and on Newsmax and
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Fox and all of their safe spaces, because they're very different.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Because when you're in court in front of a judge,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you can't just spout conspiracy bullshit without any kind of consequence.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: On Twitter and on television and at Four Seasons Total Landscaping,
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: you can say whatever the fuck you want. But you
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: can't do that in court. This morning, today, in court
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: in Arizona for Sharpie Gate lawsuit, the sequel. We're on
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the second Sharpie Gate lawsuit now, which I'm not even
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: going to explain the first Sharpie Gate one.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: I thought it was Pengazi. I did not make that up.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Someone else said that. It's so funny.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: That's good.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: That's good. So the Trump campaign lawyer in this proceeding
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: in court this morning said, quote, we are not alleging fraud.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: We are not saying anyone is trying to steal the election. Rather,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: there were, quote, good faith errors in the count, which
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: would not change the outcome. That's what the Trump campaign
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: is saying in court. So like they have admitted in
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: court that there actually were Republican poll watchers in all
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: of these places, even though Donald Trump is saying otherwise.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: They have admitted some of their complaints were not about
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: fraud at all, but about clerical errors. In Michigan, they
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: have promised explosive evidence of fraud and instead gave a
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: list of embarrassing complaints. And David Farenthold at the Washington
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Post has a great story about this today that included
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: loud noises and mean stares. They thought that an election
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: official was being too loud over the PA to the
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Republican poll watchers. That was the fraud. One of the
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: so-called shocking pieces of evidence that election fraud was committed,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: according to a Republican poll observer in Michigan, was that
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a Democratic poll observer told the Republican poll observer, go
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: back to the suburbs, Karen. They submitted that as evidence
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: of election fraud. So, like, look, I am actually surprised
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: that they are 0 for 12. Like, and I don't think,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and I'm preparing everyone for this, don't be alarmed if
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: one of these cases, somewhere, they succeed, right? But again,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: there's an appeals process. There are tens of thousands of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: votes to overturn in some of these states, which is
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: far more than they're even trying to overturn in most
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: of these cases.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So we have a long way to go. And the
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: fact that so many of their lawsuits, in fact, all
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: of their lawsuits have failed so far does not bode
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: well for their legal strategy going forward nine days after
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: the election.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. It is like the thing we
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: should prepare ourselves for is that in at some point
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: at the end of this process, Trump is going to
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: both complain that unelected judges stole the election from him.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: and pat himself on the back for confirming all of
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: these judges at the same time. Like that is definitely
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: going to happen and no one's going to blink an eye.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: The other big concern is this idea that was first
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: reported by Barton Gilman in the Atlantic back in September,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: that Trump and his goons are pressuring Republican controlled state
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: legislatures in states that Biden won to overturn the popular
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: vote and appoint their own slate of pro-Trump electors. Here's
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: why I'm not losing sleep over this theory. And I
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: know that a lot of you have read this because
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of you have emailed me And to you,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I'm saying people in my family, be friends of mine.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I'm hearing this all over the place. Here's why I'm
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: not losing sleep over this. Just so you all know,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the Constitution gives state legislatures the authority to point its
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: electors in a manner that the legislature directs. Okay? That's
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in the Constitution. Every state legislature in the country has
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: already chosen that manner by passing a law that explicitly
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: says the winner of the popular vote gets that state's
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: electoral votes. In Pennsylvania, for example... The law says that
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the final vote count must be certified by the Secretary
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of State and the final electors must be certified by
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the governor, both of whom are Democrats. The law that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: the state legislature passed does not provide a role for
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: the state legislature in selecting electors, something that the Republican
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: state Senate majority leader in Pennsylvania has now acknowledged multiple times.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: He said there is not a role for us. Now,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: what if he goes crazy, changes his mind? And the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania state legislature just breaks its own law and sends
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: its own slate of Trump electors to Congress. And what
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: if for some insane reason, a court didn't immediately strike
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that down? Then what happens? Well, Democrats control the House
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and a majority of senators have now recognized Biden as president.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: But if for some reason the House and Senate disagree,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: tie goes to the slate of electors sent by the governors,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: who again are Democrats in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. This
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: is not going to happen.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: This is very, very important. And people are very, very
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: worried about this. And like I said, shaming people for
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: being worried about crazy things happening in the Trump era
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: is not the right way to handle this.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: No, of course there's, there's a, there's so much confusing
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: information out there. There's Republicans lying every fucking day. And
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: then there's, you know, this Atlantic article, which I contend
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: was overwritten, um, That has really freaked everyone out. So
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I completely understand everyone's concern here.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: And I think the most important fact for all of
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: these various scenarios is Joe Biden's victory was not close.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: He won by a lot. Like put aside his 5
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: million vote popular vote margin. Put that aside for a second.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: He won 306 electoral votes once Georgia's call, which we're
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: very confident will be 306 electoral votes. Let's just say hypothetically,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: because people are very focused on Pennsylvania, right? Pennsylvania is
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: a place where this could possibly happen. Let's hypothetically say
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: they pulled this off in Pennsylvania. The Republican leader in
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Pennsylvania who has already said he does not want to
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: do this and does not have the power to do
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: so if he did want to do it. But let's
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: say he did that, right? And then let's say somehow
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: this case made its way to the Supreme Court and
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Pennsylvania was able to send its 20 Trump electors to
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: the Electoral College. which is meeting by Zoom, right? So
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: let's say they did that. If that were to happen,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: which is a tiny, tiny, like a million things have
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: to happen for that to happen, Joe Biden still wins
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: because he still has more than 270 electoral votes. Trump
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: has to pull this off in three states. Let's say
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: he pulled it off in Georgia and Pennsylvania. Joe Biden
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: still wins, right?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Like if we were, I have- But again, the other
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: big reason that everyone should feel calm here is that
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: we have the House and Nancy Pelosi has a role
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: in recognizing the slate of electors. And I know people
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: are worried about the 269-269 tie scenario where each state
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: delegation gets a vote in the House and there are
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: more Republican delegations. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: about the fact that as Speaker of the House, Nancy
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Pelosi has a role, as does the Senate, in recognizing
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the conflicting slates of electors if they're ever sent, if
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: it got through the courts. Again, it has to get
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: through all the courts to get to this point. But
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: even if it did, the final role is still played
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: by the Democratic-controlled House and the Senate. And so the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: worst case scenario ends in acting President Nancy Pelosi. If
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: there is a completely crazy scenario and it is frozen,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: the worst case scenario is acting President Nancy Pelosi. Every
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: other scenario is President Joe Biden. That's how this goes.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: That's how this goes. And also, again, like you said,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: we're talking about fraud on a massive scale that they
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: would need to find. And in nine days after the election,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: no fraud has been discovered. No fraud is even being
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: alleged by some of the Trump campaign lawyers in these cases.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: And we are headed towards state certification very soon, which again,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: in the states we need to hit 270, the Democrats control.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: The other thing I would just give people advice through
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: is like click on the links and read the stories
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: when you see these panicky things. So someone texted me
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: this morning this article from Michigan, because Michigan, the certification
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: process is two Republicans, two Democrats, and you need a
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: 3-1 vote to certify. And the headline is Republican on
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: certification board will commit to certifying the results. Joe Biden
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: won Michigan by 140,000 votes, 14 times Donald Trump's margin
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: in 2016. And the headline and the lead are very concerning.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: When you read the story, the person, this member of
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: the certification board, whose wife is, I will say, one
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: of the witnesses who is claiming– Crazy. Crazy to have
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: seen things. But even he says he has seen no
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: evidence of fraud. And his wife is a fraud witness, right?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: For Trump, yeah. His wife is a fraud witness for
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Trump and he's like, oh, I haven't seen anything so far.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: And we see no evidence that would overturn the results.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: So– we have a lot to worry about, a lot
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: to do. Read deep into it. Make your own decisions
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: about how much you want to worry about this. That
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: is everyone's point of view. But there is a lot
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: of panicky threads happening on Twitter, people being very worried.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: And I just think if you dig into the process,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: there are reasons to feel much better about how this
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: is going to go. And so I would just encourage
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: people to do that before getting very worried. Click the links,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: read things, see what is actually happening out there. And
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: the reality of it doesn't muster a lot of what
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: you're seeing people tweet about or worry about, et cetera,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: on social media.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And I will say my confidence is not a result
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of A, oh, Donald Trump and the Republicans wouldn't do
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: something bad. Of course they would. My confidence is also
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: not a result of our institutions are so strong. I
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: trust them implicitly, though I will say on the judicial side,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: 0 and 12 is a pretty good sign that the judiciary,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: even as stacked as it is with right wing judges,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: is holding up so far. My confidence is when you
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: get to the legislative political side, Democrats are in enough
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: important positions in all of these states and in the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: House of Representatives that we should feel confident, which is
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: very dangerous for the future, I should say, because if
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi was not Speaker of the House and there
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: was a Republican Speaker of the House, if we did
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: not have Democratic governors in Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin, if
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: we did not have Democratic secretaries of state in some
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: of these places, I would be a lot more worried
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: that this scenario could come to pass.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: And if the election was closer, like I lived this
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: myself in Florida in 2000, there is an exact history
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: of a partisan Supreme Court stopping the vote counting in
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: order to elect the president of their choice. We saw
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that happen before. Just the margin of error here is
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: so gigantic. The one other thing I would say that
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I think is an important fact is there are these
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: recounts happening. People are very nervous about the recounts. As
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Bob Bauer pointed out, these recounts are mandatory because the
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: race is in Wisconsin and Georgia, in particular, very close.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: The As Bob Bauer pointed out in his legal brief,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: which I would encourage everyone to watch, it is very reassuring.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: It answers a lot of your questions, a lot of
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: legal questions from someone who is an actual lawyer, unlike
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: you and I. But as Bob pointed out, there have
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: been 31 state recounts since the year 2000. The average
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: vote change in those statewide recounts is 430 votes. The
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: closest race Joe Biden has is in Wisconsin, I believe,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: as of we sit here right now, and that is
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: over 10,000 votes. And so the idea that any of
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: these recounts could change the outcome of the election is
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: something to which there is no mathematical or historical possibility.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: And the Secretary of State in Georgia, very Republican, not
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a rhino, not a never-Trumper by any means, said that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: he does not believe the recount will change the outcome
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: of the election. And also, as they are setting that up,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: it is going to be open to the public. There
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: will be Democratic and Republican poll observers to watch it.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So just in case anyone is worried about that when
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: recounts happen, suddenly it's like a bunch of Trump people
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: counting ballots. That's not how it's going to go. It
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: is going to be set up in a transparent process
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: so that everyone can see them. So President-elect Biden is
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: handling all of this very calmly and confidently. On Tuesday,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: he took questions from reporters about Trump's refusal to concede.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Here is a clip.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I just think it's an embarrassment.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Quite frankly.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: The only thing that, how can I say this tactfully?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I think it will not help the president's legacy. I
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: think that the whole Republican Party has been put in
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a position with a few notable exceptions of being Mildly
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: intimidated by the sitting president.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Marked restraint from Joe Biden. Almost comical at times, just
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: the way that he sort of dryly put those two things.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Not helpful to Donald Trump's legacy and mildly intimidating. What
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: did you think of Biden's response there?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: Pitch perfect. It's the exact right way to do it.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Do not feed into the panic. Project calm and confidence
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: and be like this entire race was defined between the
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: stature gap between our Toddler president and our mature, experienced, cool, calm,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: and collected president-elect and keeping that right here. There are
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: obviously real challenges to this. You guys talked about some
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: of them on Monday about access to classified information, the
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: quote-unquote ascertainment from the head of the General Services Administration
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: to begin the formal parts of the transition. Those are
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: very real. Joe Biden is not going to solve those
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: problems by projecting panic, right? He is the winner. He
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: looks like the winner. He's acting like the winner. And
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: that's what people want. That is completely consistent with his
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: campaign and why he won.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I should say too, because I've seen a lot of
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: people say, you know, Democrats should be more prepared. They
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: should be more alarmed. Like, be careful. Trump's trying to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: steal this. And like, I just don't, I think the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: question is, What does being more alarmed get you? What
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: goal does it achieve, right? Like, I know everyone's worried, like,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: the Republican state legislature is going to send their own
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: electors to Congress. Well, the law doesn't allow them to
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: do that, right? Like, I can send a letter to
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Congress saying that I've received 270 electoral votes and should
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: be the next president of the United States. Doesn't mean
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: that Congress has to take it seriously, right? Like, if
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: every single Republican state legislature decides to break the law,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and every single judge in the land decides that Republican
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: legislatures are allowed to break the law, and Donald Trump
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and the Republicans break every law in the country so
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: that he stays in office, then our option then is
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: not to like find a loophole in the law to
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: be like, gotcha. We were prepared and we made sure
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: we figured out you, you know, we stopped you in
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the nick of time. No, then we have to like
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: flood the streets in protest. And that's the only option available.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: So like, it's not clear to me what, Joe Biden
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: being more alarmed, more panicked, or any of us being
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: more alarmed would actually achieve at this point.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Panic is never the solution to any problem, right? It's
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: not like, why aren't you panicking? You should never panic.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: What's the first thing they tell you to do in
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: any crisis? Don't panic.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of like, don't be caught flat footed.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Like no one's being caught flat footed. The guy's trying
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: to steal the election. Like we, we all get that,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: but like, We have a legal strategy in place. We
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: have lawyers beating them in court every day. We have
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Democratic governors in place. We have Nancy Pelosi. There's nothing
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to change about our response right now.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: What is happening, the way Trump is handling this, the
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: way Republicans are going along with it, and we'll talk
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: about this some more, I think, but is deeply disturbing
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: and quite dangerous.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: Horrible.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Unconscionable.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Unforgivable.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it speaks for a very long road ahead
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: for our country. When you have one of our two
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: parties in our two-party system are willing to burn our
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: institutions down for political power, that is deeply dangerous. The
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: thing is, there is actually something productive we can do
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: about that right now. And that is to win those
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: two runoffs in Georgia and take control of the Senate
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: and take all of Mitch McConnell's power away. That is
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: a constructive response to what is happening here. We can
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: actually make a difference. And so it's just like it's
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: totally fair and reasonable to be anxious. We sort of
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: thought this would all be over. And I don't know
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: why we thought that. But Trump would just leave. It'd
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: be done. We could move on. But we are in
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the 27th mile of this marathon. And the best place
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: to channel our anxiety is into something that will actually
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: help save our democracy, which is winning these Senate races.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: So one other disturbing story this week that may or
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: may not have anything to do with Trump's refusal to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: concede was his complete purge of the civilian leadership at
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: the Department of Defense. On Monday, Trump fired Secretary of
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Defense Mark Esper via tweet. He then replaced three of
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Esper's top deputies with three of his biggest goons, Kash Patel,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Ezra Cohen-Watnick, and Anthony Tata, who has called President Obama
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: a terrorist and called for John Brennan's execution. He's also
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: installed a goon of his named Michael Ellis as general
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: counsel at the NSA, the National Security Agency. And he's
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: being pressured by his idiot son and a few others
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: to fire the CIA director, Gina Haspel. So why on
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: earth is Trump purging all of the defense and national
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: security people that he himself hired?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: There is it. No one knows for sure. There are
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: sort of two competing theories about what has happened. One is,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: and this is all from anonymous reporting from sort of
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: national security reporters. One is that Trump so much wants
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: to get out of Afghanistan sooner than the Pentagon wants
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: that he is making all these changes. I am quite skeptical.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Of that one. Donald the Dove.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, that one has really taken hold among a
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: lot of people, but it just doesn't. And these aren't
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: the goons you'd send. Like these people, Ezra Cohen Watt
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: and all these people are– Kash Patel are conspiracy theorists
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: to the nth degree. They make Richard Grinnell look like
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: a man with his feet firmly planted in reality. And
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: so the alternative theory that some people have floated is
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: it is about finding ways to declassify a bunch of
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: intelligence that would somehow undermine the idea that Putin helped
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Trump in 2016.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Which seems very possible to me.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: Very possible. Very logical.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: That we know Trump is completely obsessed with that. I mean,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: the other thing to know is because the scary theory,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: the third scary theory, which is like, is Donald Trump
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: putting people in place in the Defense Department to help
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: him stay in power somehow? A lot of the reporting
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: has said that these moves were discussed well before the election.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: So whatever Trump's motives are... they were sort of pre-election motives,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: which could be, again, either the Afghanistan theory or some
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: kind of cover-up theory or some kind of declassification goal.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: It could be one of those things. There's been a
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: lot of reporting on this from a lot of good reporters,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: some of the best reporters in the business. And a
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: lot of Defense Department officials, administration officials, they're all sort
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: of saying it's out of spite. It's just like Trump
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: being an asshole, Trump trying to exact revenge on people
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: that disagreed with him, all of which is very much
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: in line with how Trump has acted for the last
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: four years and most of his life. That's what we
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: know so far. So the only reason that we can't
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: just ignore Trump's pathetic whining is because most Republican politicians
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: are playing along. with his deranged fantasy that voter fraud
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: stole the election from him, from House Minority Leader Kevin
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: McCarthy and the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to just
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: about every congressional Republican except Senators Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and Sasse.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Republican Senator James Lankford said he would step in if
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Biden isn't getting the presidential daily briefing by Friday. Chuck
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Grassley just agreed with him as well. And Democratic Senator
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Chris Coons said this week that some Republicans have been
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: directing their congratulations to Biden through him, because they're afraid
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: of doing it publicly. One Republican aide said to the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Washington Post, what is the downside for humoring him for
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: this little bit of time? No one seriously thinks the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: results will change. He went golfing this weekend. It's not
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: like he's plotting how to prevent Joe Biden from taking
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: power on January 20th. He's tweeting about filing some lawsuits.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Those lawsuits will fail, and then he'll tweet some more
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: about how the election was stolen, and then he'll leave.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Why do you think so many Republican politicians refuse to
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: acknowledge Joe Biden as the legitimate winner of the presidential election?
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: A lot of people attribute this to cowardice on behalf
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: of the Republicans. They don't want to anger the Trump base.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: They don't want to get mean tweets sent about him.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I think that's incorrect. Cowardice suggests you want to do
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: the right thing but are too afraid to do it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: This is cravenness. They are doing this because they think
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: it is good politics for them. Mitch McConnell has been
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: very specific. He thinks keeping the Trump base hopped up
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: on conspiracy theories– racist conspiracy theories in particular about stolen
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: elections in minority-heavy cities. He thinks that helps him keep
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: control of the Senate. And what is dangerous about that
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: is it's about Georgia now, and then it's going to
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: be about 2022, and then it's going to be about 2024.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: And each time you get your base more hopped up
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: on higher dosages of racist conspiracy theories, it gets worse
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: and worse and worse. This exact attitude is how we
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: got in this fucking mess to begin with, where these
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Republicans You know, they say the things that Trump says.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: They don't push back on the lies. They don't push
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: back on the conspiracies. And then they wink and nod
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: to every fucking political and politico reporter in town saying,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: you know, privately over drinks. You know, I don't really
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: believe this. Don't quote me, but we got to say it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: But the American people aren't in on the fucking joke.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Trump's base doesn't know this is all some big charade
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: to help turn out an election or make Trump feel better,
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: whatever your fucking reason is. So what you end up
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: doing is radicalizing your base, which then forces you in
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: the next election to be even more radical. This is
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: exactly how they got Trump because this is exactly how
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: they responded to birtherism to begin with. Most of them
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: didn't believe it. Obviously, but John Boehner and Paul Ryan
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and Mitch McConnell, they kept their fucking trap shut because
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: they thought it helped them win the 2020 elections. And
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: then Mitt Romney, because he thought it would help him
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: win the 2012 election, got on his hands and knees
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: and begged Donald Trump for an endorsement. And then Donald
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: Trump becomes president. So who the fuck knows what's going
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: to happen on the back end of this, but it
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: is deeply dangerous because they're making a specific political calculation
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: that this is good for them. Rant over.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: No one in this country has more contempt for Republican
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: voters than Republican politicians. Like they have created a monster
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and the monster is not Donald Trump. The monster is
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the Murdoch empire and the right-wing media ecosystem that is
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: poisoning the brains of most Republican voters in this country
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: right now. And Donald Trump will leave the scene and
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: they will still be riling up these voters with Sean
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Hannity and Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson and now Newsmax
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: and now OAN and now all their fucking YouTube craziness
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and their Facebook bullshit. Like they will continue to get
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: people riled up, angry and afraid so that Republican politicians
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: can hold power and win elections. And if their voters
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: believe crazy conspiracies, if their voters don't believe in things
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: like COVID and get sick and die, they do not
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: give a shit. They don't care about their voters. They
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: just care about staying in power. And now they have
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: created this right wing media fucking monster that is just
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: going to keep everyone angry and afraid. Well, long past
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: when Donald Trump leaves. Long past when Donald Trump leaves.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: The idea that I mean, the thing is, just think
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: about this for a second. OAN and Newsmax are two
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: things that were created on the specific premise that Sean
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Hannity is too sane. And it like it is getting
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: it is getting worse and worse. And every single one
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: of them should be held to fucking account in the
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: present politically and in the long term historically. No one
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: and you can blame Donald Trump and he is irresponsible.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: And Donald Trump is a fucking disaster of a president
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: who was responsible for the deaths of 10,000 Americans because
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: he was too stupid to wear a mask. But ultimately,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: when you want to find blame for this, look right
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: at Mitch McConnell and look right at Paul Ryan, look
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: right at Kevin McCarthy, look at the Republican leaders who
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: theoretically should fucking know better but are more interested in
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: power than doing what is right for the country and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: even right for their party in the long term because
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: the political calculus here is their base is getting smaller.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: So they need a greater increase in turnout in every
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: election to win. And so that means the political incentives
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: here are headed in all the wrong directions unless the
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Republicans change the way they think about things and there's
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: no evidence they have any desire to do that.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And I would say that If you are a Democrat
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out how we do even better next time,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: how we expand our majority, how we save the House,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: how we flip the Senate, it doesn't matter what kind
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: of Democrat you are, whether you're a progressive, Democratic, socialist, centrist, moderate,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: somewhere in the middle of the party. If your analysis
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: does not begin with the fact that we face a
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: very dangerous right-wing media ecosystem that is poisoning people's minds
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: and on a daily basis, then you're doing it wrong.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: We cannot have this conversation even as a party about
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: what went wrong without recognizing what is happening on the
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: other side. And that when we propose something, When we
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: propose a Green New Deal, what does Fox do to it, right?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: When an activist talks about defunding the police, what does
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Fox do? When someone proposes something moderate, like a public
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: option to expand health insurance, what does Fox News do
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: to it, right? It doesn't matter what kind of policy
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: you propose as a Democrat. We are facing a well-oiled
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: machine that has been lying to people for a long time,
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: and it is getting far worse with social media platforms
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: right now. And like that to me, that just has
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to be the beginning of the conversation on what we do.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: But do you have any ideas?
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I also want to go back and I want
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: to amend my list of people most responsible for how
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: fucked up America is to include Mark Zuckerberg, because none
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: of this happens without Facebook. Fox rushed limbo. All of
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: that operated in a very dangerous, dark corner. And then
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: in order to become billionaires, Facebook pumped that right wing
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: propaganda into Facebook. brains of millions of Americans, the 40%
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: of Americans who get their news from Facebook, a place
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: where Dan Bongino, most days, has seven of the 10
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: most engaged with link posts on the whole thing. So
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: think about that for a second. There are so many
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: conversations that we want to have within the party, we
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: want to have on this podcast, we want to have
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: in the pages of the New York Times, apparently, about
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: where we go from here. Because there are There are
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: some amazing stories of success in this election, primarily centered
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: around Joe Biden and Kamala Harris winning, flipping Arizona, flipping Georgia.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Even though things went so far worse than we expected
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: in Texas, still, Texas continued its inexorable move blue. We
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: moved it more in the Democratic direction again. But if
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: we do not figure out this misinformation problem, we are fucked.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: We were absolutely fucked. And the thing that we have
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: to think about here is Joe Biden was able to
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: survive the right-wing assault on him for two reasons. One,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: he was a particularly pitch-perfect candidate for this moment. And
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: he had exponentially more resources than his opponent. That is
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: something that is not going to happen again anytime soon.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: It is not the first day of his presidency. This
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: massive right-wing megaphone is going to be turned on Biden.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: He's not going to be necessarily running hundreds of millions
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: of dollars of ads at that time to get his
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: message out. We benefited in large part because Trump was stupid.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: He had this giant megaphone, but he was so stupid
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: that he just used it to hit himself in the
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: face with on a pretty close to a daily basis.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: That's not going to happen in the future. We have
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: to figure out how to build up a progressive media
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: infrastructure that competes. We have to figure out how to
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: solve the Facebook problem because we cannot exist in a
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: world where Facebook is continuing to be dominated by conservatives.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: And that could include pressuring Facebook to be better, but
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: it also includes figuring out what is the progressive way
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: that we get into that daily top 10 list of
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: engaged posts, that it gets closer to 50-50. How do
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: we do that? What is a way in which we
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: can get our message, we can break into these information
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: silos and and these information vacuums to communicate with people.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Because if we do not do that, we're going to
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: be right back here in a few years dealing with
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: the next version of Trump who's unlikely to be this stupid.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And I will say, as much as I believe that
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: we need to grow our own progressive media institutions, which
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: is why we have Crooked Media, which is why we're
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: sticking around and we'll keep growing as fast as we can. Um,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: but the reason that we at crooked media have launched vote,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: save America and adopt a state is because I think
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: as much as you need media to compete with their media,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: we also need and cannot replace on the ground, organizing
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: and face-to-face conversations with voters and sort of building up
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: grassroots democracy. And that has been difficult to do obviously
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: because of the pandemic, but, um, which by the way,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: we're not even talking about right now because Donald Trump's
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: trying to steal the election and we're in like literally
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the worst wave of the pandemic yet and people are
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: dying all over the country and we're hitting crisis mode
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: right now, which is just like one of the many
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: things that we can't be talking about right now because
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump refuses to concede the fucking election and Republicans
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: are helping them. But anyway, once the pandemic has passed,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I do think Democrats need to get back to sort
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: of grassroots organizing of the kind we've seen in the past,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: especially in 2018 around the midterms because I think And
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama always used to say this too. When he
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: would go to downstate Illinois or he would go to
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Iowa and he would meet people face-to-face, they suddenly realized
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: he was not the caricature that they saw of him
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: on Fox News. And I think Democrats running for office,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: meeting people in person and having conversations is one antidote
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: to those caricatures that people see on their television screens
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: or their phone screens.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: You're exactly right. There are a couple elements of this.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: One is getting back to the grassroots organizing process. Once
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: it's safe face-to-face within communities. But I think there is
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: a big conversation we had about how we, and I
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: talked to Stacey Abrams about this in the interview you
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: heard at the end of this podcast, is how do
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: we build sustainable, progressive infrastructure within states, right? I sort
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: of called it the other day a 24-7, 365-50 strategy
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: where we are constantly organizing. We're not in this feast
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: or famine world where we're going to send $ 100 million
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: to South Carolina in a four-month period to help try
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: to elect Jamie Harrison, and then we're not going to
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: think about it again for years. That's not the way
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: to do it, right? What Stacey Abrams and LaTosha Brown
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: and so many other people did in Georgia over a
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: significant period of time is how you do that, right?
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Some of that work is happening in Texas. Beto's been
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: doing that for several years now, but we have to
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: do that everywhere. On the misinformation front, we are not
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: going to solve the Facebook problem or build up a
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: megaphone anywhere near the size of the Republicans anytime soon.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: And the one thing we have to do, and this
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: is a thing you know I've been yelling to you
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: about in every forum for years, is we have to
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: find ways to empower our activists to be amplifiers of
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: our message. How do we allow them to be online
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: message organizers within their networks, right? Everyone is walking around
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: with this phone in their pocket with, on average, hundreds
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: of contacts, whether that is in their contact list or
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Facebook or whatever it is, how do we do that
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: as a party? Because the Republican message operation is topped out.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: It is Trump to Fox News to the base. And
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: ours has to be bottom up. And we have to
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: give the message to people and have them push it forward.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: That is the only way we're going to compete in
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: the short term. And that's one thing that I hope
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: we all have very serious conversations about how to do,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: how to build the tools, how to build the infrastructure
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: to make that happen. Because I think that is the
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: only way we're going to compete. Because we have Like
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: we have Georgia in January. We have gubernatorial elections in 2019.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: We have perhaps the most consequential congressional races for a
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: very long time in 2022. And so there is a
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: lot of work to do to take the lessons good
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: and bad from this past election.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Well, when we come back, you'll talk a lot more
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: about all of this and especially organizing on the ground
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: with the one and only Stacey Abrams.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Stacey Abrams is the CEO of Fair Fight Action and
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: currently leading and winning the fight to flip Georgia blue.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Stacey Abrams, welcome back to Pod Save America.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me, again.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Again, always. Before we get into the interview, I want
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: to give you the opportunity to say I told you so,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: because back last year when Crooked Media was putting forward
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: our Adopt-A-State program, we picked the six states that we
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: thought were most likely to flip from red to blue.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Georgia was not one of those states. You told us
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: we were wrong. You made a very compelling case. We
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: did not add Georgia. We did do some volunteer work
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: in Georgia, but we did not add Georgia. But you
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: were right. We were wrong. So I, I, I lay
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: myself on the mercy of the court.
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: I will take the high road of Sheldon Cooper and say, not,
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: I told you so, but I informed you thusly.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: I informed you thusly.
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Well done. Well done. Well, let's talk about, let's talk
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: about Georgia and what happened in this election season. Well,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: What do you think the key was to flipping Georgia
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: from red to blue? What was the work that was done?
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: What are the lessons we can learn from that?
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Number one, that this took time.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: I started traveling the country in 2011 with a 21-page
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: PowerPoint deck that was my growth strategy for Georgia from
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: 2011 to 2020. Actually, it's 2010 to 2020 because we
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: had to.
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: Go from a nadir to being blue and.
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: A big part of what I would tell people is, look,
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to be able to deliver successes every
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: single cycle, but we can make progress. But we also
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: had to think about all of the other groups that
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: have been toiling and working for years, but never had
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: the investment to come to scale or to sustain their
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: efforts in between elections. And so a big part of
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: what I've been working on for the last decade is
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: bringing those resources to Georgia.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: And Vote Save America.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: Was incredibly helpful and Crooked Media was and making sure
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: we were able to create this through line where the
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: money kept coming so that you weren't in this feast
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: or famine cycle that hit so many red states. We
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: only get attention when we have an exciting race that
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: someone else cares about, which means that the ability to
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: build relationships, to build infrastructure is just incredibly tenuous. I've
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: been privileged to be able to raise money effectively. I'm
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: a really good beggar. And so I've spent the last
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: 10 years building up to this ability to invest.
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: But I want to be very clear.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: This was a team effort that culminated in this election,
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: but it did not begin with this election or even
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: with my gubernatorial election. My election in 2018, that campaign
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: was about proving it.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: We wanted to win. We should have won.
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: But the big piece was to demonstrate to the world
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: this method of actually talking to every voter, engaging every community,
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: not being driven by data to the sense that you
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: are leaving people out, but using data to find those
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: who need to need and want to be in that.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: That's how you transform an electorate. And that's how you
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: build the capacity to do victory after victory after victory.
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: We're still working on the second and third one, but yes.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Yes. Well, we're going to have an opportunity to try
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: to get at least two and three pretty close. A
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: huge part of Fair Fight, very focused on voter protection.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: That's been a huge part of what Fair Fight has done,
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: what Crooked Media has worked with Fair Fight on. A
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: big part of this is voter registration. Something that is
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: near and dear to your heart is what the New
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: Georgia project that you started has worked on for many,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: many years. It's how we got to this point. Can
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: you talk a little bit about the amazing voter registration
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: efforts in Georgia, you know, and who were sort of
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: the heroes of those efforts were?
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: We started voter registration in 2013 or 2014 at scale.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: And again, that's the difference.
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: So you had groups like the People's Agenda run by
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: Helen Butler, who's been doing this work. You had groups
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: that eventually became groups like Galea, the Georgia Association of
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: Latino Elected Officials. They'd been doing the work. Asians American
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: Advancing Justice. They merged with another group that had been
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: on the ground doing the work. The issue was doing
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: the work at scale and doing it again and again.
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: And I want to be clear, the 800,000 number that
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: is being used, that number is the number of people
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: who registered after 2018. So that was not all attributable
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: to any of these groups. There are people who registered
• 47:53
  Speaker 5: simply because they went in to change their driver's licenses.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: But what matters is that these groups have been building
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: relationships because getting a driver, getting, getting registered to both
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: like getting a driver's license and But if no one
• 48:05
  Speaker 5: teaches you how to drive and you can't get access
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: to a car, it's irrelevant. And so what's so critical
• 48:10
  Speaker 5: about these organizations is that they didn't just register voters.
• 48:13
  Speaker 5: They got into relationship with voters, helped new voters understand
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: this power, helped them navigate the challenges. Fair Fight came
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: in as a part of building the infrastructure so they
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: could actually get to the polls. But the groups that
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: have been doing this voter registration, New Georgia Project, AAAJ,
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: Mahente Now, NPR, Galeo and other groups, the People's Agenda,
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: those are all groups that have been doing this work.
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: They just finally had the ability to coalesce and for
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: us to be able to scale that effort to meet
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: this moment.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: We're now looking at two runoffs in January with the
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: determined control of the United States Senate and so much
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: of what we care about, whether Joe Biden has the
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: ability to appoint the judges he wants to appoint, the
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: cabinet he wants. passed the legislation that he ran on
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: and so many Democrats ran on. How do you see
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: those runoffs playing out? What are the things we need
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: to do over the next couple of months to ensure
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: we have the opportunity to win those, like Joe Biden
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: had the opportunity to win Georgia?
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: So first, we have to reject the anachronistic notion that
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: Democrats can't win runoffs in Georgia. The two that people
• 49:20
  Speaker 5: use the most often, the two Senate races, Weitzschweiler in 92,
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: Jim Martin in 2008. You have to remember, Democrats won
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: the presidency both of those years, and in neither of
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: those years were Georgia senators necessary for the achievement of
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: their agendas. This is much more akin to 2017 and
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: Doug Jones. This is about coalitions being built in the
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: South to save the Senate.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: And we know that can work.
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: We know it can work because Doug Jones was able
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: to turn out 48% turnout. We know it can work
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: because coalitions were built together to get this work done.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: And we have two extraordinary candidates. We have candidates who
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: each have their own lanes, but who are compatible, who
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: have a shared vision, and who are actually really good
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: at this. And so John Ossoff and Raphael Warnock are
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: the essential candidates that we need for this moment. They
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: can talk about justice. They can talk about health care.
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: And they do so with authenticity and credibility. But they
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: need resources. So we created GASenate.com. That is the link
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: that will let you contribute to both Ossoff and Warnock.
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: But it also contributes to Fair Fight. Because we also
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: know that the Republicans have not given up on voter suppression.
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: That's why you see the flailing around of David Perdue
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: and Kelly Loeffler, the two senators who called on their Republican...
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: Secretary of State to step down.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: They did it because it worked.
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: We were able to thwart voter suppression in real meaningful ways,
• 50:42
  Speaker 5: and they aren't happy about it.
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: And so they want it.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: We have to believe that they're going to come back
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: and try to reinsert and reinstall those regimes that block voters.
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: And so Fair Fight is going to remain ever more
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: critical to protect the right to vote. So GASenate.com is
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: the best way to contribute. The last thing I'll say
• 50:59
  Speaker 5: is this. We need volunteers. We do not need the
• 51:02
  Speaker 5: world moving to Georgia. Unless you already had plans to
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: come and establish residency, what we really need the most
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: of is to know who you are and that you're
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: out there ready to be called on. But you've got
• 51:14
  Speaker 5: a lot of campaigning to do, and we've got to
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: build this up. But please, please, please do not make
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: plans to come to Georgia just yet. This is a
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: local election that has national implications, but we've got to
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: do what we did before, which is start with the people,
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: start on the ground, and build our way up. But
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: we'd love your volunteers. to sign up with us and
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: we will make sure that you get information about how
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: to volunteer, go to fairfight.com. We can take your information
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: and then we'll get you plugged in where we need
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: you most.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: The recent history of American politics has been that when
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Democrats have victories that are powered in large part by
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: people of color, Republicans double and triple down on voter suppression.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: What are you and Fair Fight looking at for the
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: fights to come, obviously in the Georgia runoff, but down
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: the line as Republicans try to figure out how to
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: reduce the political power of the people who put Joe
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Biden and Kamala Harris in office?
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: The way we were able to mitigate voter suppression in
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: this election included getting clear rules about absentee balloting. allowing
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: people to cure ballots when minor mistakes are made, but
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: their votes would have been thrown out otherwise. Making sure
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: that black and brown voters weren't disproportionately given provisional ballots,
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: ensuring that we had enough polling places that were adequately resourced,
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: ensuring that we had drop boxes because of the weaponization
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: of the postal service, making sure that people understood what
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: was on the ballot. Those are things that we invested in.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: We were also able to get legislative victories on exact
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: match to really thwart the ability of the Secretary of
• 52:47
  Speaker 5: State to limit who could register to vote. All of
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: these things can be undone through legislation in January 2021.
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: And so our mission is going to be to make
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: sure that Republicans don't double down on the voter suppression
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: that we were able to mitigate by restoring the changes,
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: restoring the rules that we were able to change. I
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: will also point out that we were able to help
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: direct almost $ 30 million worth of resources to counties across
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: the state. And I want to give a big shout
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: out to the Center for Tech and Civic Life and CSME,
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: I think is the other organization, who really invested in
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: nonpartisan building the election administration infrastructure. That has to continue.
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: We cannot allow a calcification of what we've accomplished to
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: turn into a retrenchment on voter suppression.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: A lot of people are concerned about this hand recount
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: or audit that's happening in Georgia. Can you explain a
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: little bit what is going on there?
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: So Georgia was always going to have what's called a
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: risk-limiting audit to look at the new machines to make
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: sure that they were working the way they were supposed to.
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: Georgia law also allows for a recount. And they will
• 53:58
  Speaker 5: also do what's called a re-canvas just to make sure
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: that people voted where they said they voted. Typically, when
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: these things happen, There is a nominal change in the votes.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: There will not be 14,057 new votes that suddenly spring
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: up and make Donald Trump the victor.
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: He lost. He lost Georgia. We won. He needs to
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: accept it.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: But as someone who believes in the legal process, I
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: say let them do it. Let them follow through the rules.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: Just we need to believe and understand it's not going
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: to change the outcome. There is no harm in the
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: rules being followed. Now, what is harmful is is the
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: misinformation that's being spewed by Republicans because they are intentionally
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: trying to gin up their voters by claiming that fraud
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: has happened. There has been no fraud. The Secretary of
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: State says there's no fraud. The Lieutenant Governor says there's
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: no fraud. These are the Republicans saying this. And so
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: we can't allow the misinformation to swamp communities who suddenly
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: believe that they can't be heard if they try to vote.
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: So the process is fine. It's the misinformation and the
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: rhetoric that's dangerous.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: When we take a step back and look at the
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: election all across the country, obviously the defeat of Donald Trump,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: the election of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris is of
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: historic importance, right? Donald Trump represented a unique threat to
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: our democracy, our way of life, our ability to get
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: out of this pandemic, everything. For the Democratic Party, lower
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: down the ballot, there were some very disturbing signs, some
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: wins we thought we were going to have, we didn't have.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: We didn't flip Senate seats in states that Donald Trump won.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: What are sort of the broader lessons you take from
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: the election writ large?
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: One, that Donald Trump is a unique cancer in our nation.
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: And luckily enough of us believe that it needed to
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: be excised that we did. But we are a divided
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: nation and that was made manifest because of Donald Trump,
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: but it wasn't created by Donald Trump. The real challenges
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: about whether access to healthcare is a right or a privilege,
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: that argument continues to rage. The real conversation about how
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: we invest in our economy to help not only those
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: who are wealthy get wealthier, but help those who are
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: middle or lower working class actually gain access, those are
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: real debates we're having in this nation. The question of
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: justice being something that should be guaranteed, that's a real conversation.
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: That is a real debate in our nation. And so
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: we shouldn't be so sanguine that we think because we
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: were able to get rid of this grotesque example of
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: bad that the bad doesn't continue in just more palatable forms.
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: Our responsibility is not to read into this that we
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: have to wholesale change who we are. We just have
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: to do a better job of getting those who share
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: our values to participate. We saw voter increase, yes, but
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: we have more opportunity out there and we've got to
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: be intentional about cultivating that opportunity, not just during presidential elections,
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: but we should start with city and county elections that
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: are coming up next year. We have state ledge races
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: that are going to be happening next year and in 22.
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: Those are all opportunities that to continue to move the
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: pendulum in our direction. Because if we stop pulling it,
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: it's going to swing the other way and we are
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: going to be devastated by it.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: The victory in Georgia and the success we did around
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: the country were powered by millions of people who got
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: involved in politics for the very first time after Donald Trump.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: What would you say to people to help keep them involved,
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: help the people who got involved because of Donald Trump
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: stay involved now that he is on his way out?
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: And that was part of what I was saying before,
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: which is, Donald Trump is a symptom. He was not
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: the disease. He was just the symptom on steroids and
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: in technicolor. We need you to stay involved because what
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: he was trying to do, they will do quietly through
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: your school board. They will do quietly through your city council.
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: When zoning laws are made that allow poor communities and
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: communities of color to be saddled with chemical plants, that's
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: Donald Trump on a local level. When there is a
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: disinvestment in your local schools in the midst of COVID.
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: That's Donald Trump at the local level.
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: So we have to stop focusing on his now fading
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: example and focus on the real people who are making
• 58:11
  Speaker 5: these choices. Because when we allied local elections, when we
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: skip over those lines on the ballot, what we're saying
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: is you have permission to be just like Donald Trump,
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: only quieter. But the effect is just as devastating and
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: just as permanent.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: People, after the victory in Georgia, people have been tweeting
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: everywhere about how Stacey Abrams should be in charge of
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: the DNC, which are the Democratic Party. I'm not going
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: to ask about any of that. But what do you
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: think the top two or three things the Democratic Party
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: should do to take the success we had in Georgia
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: and export it to states that are on the cusp
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: of it? Texas, obviously. North Carolina, one that's been on
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: the cusp of it for a very long time. South Carolina.
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: How do we sort of build the sustainable, progressive infrastructure
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: that you all have built in Georgia? in other parts
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: of the country.
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: So this is a shameless plug for my book, Our
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: Time is Now, Power, Purpose, and the Fight for a
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: Fair America. So the first half of the book, I
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: talk about voter suppression and voter engagement. But the second
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: half of the book is exactly that. We have a
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: demographic revolution that is not destiny.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: It is opportunity.
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: We have to, one, acknowledge that identity politics works for us.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: And it's this.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: When you say you can see someone's community and understand
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: the challenges they face and that those challenges may be
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: different than your own, that's identity politics. And that's why
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: people vote. Number two, we have to have sustainable, consistent
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: investment that does not rely on political candidates coming in saying,
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: we think your county or your state matters this year.
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: There has to be consistent investment throughout and it has
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: to be year round and it has to be diffuse.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: I am proud of the work that we do at
• 59:47
  Speaker 5: Fair Fight, but Fair Fight is not the only group
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: doing good work. And so part of what we're doing
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: in this runoff elections, we're moving money to other groups
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: too that we know they won't float high enough in
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: the ether to get their own attention. So we're going
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: to make sure they get the resources they need. And
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: then number three, we have to wash, rinse and repeat.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: This is a process. This is not an event. We
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: are all focused on, you know, ding dong, the witch
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: is dead in the White House. But the reality is
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 5: we've had to do this again and again, election after
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: election for a decade. It's going to take time. Patience
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: is hard, but patience met with investment and with mission
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: is how we get the change we need and how
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: we make it as permanent as change can be in politics.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: Stacey Abrams, thank you so much for being with us.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Congratulations on everything you have done in Georgia. We very
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: much look forward to working with you to win these
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: two runoffs and continue to turn Georgia and the rest
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: of this country blue. Thank you.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Dan.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Stacey Abrams for joining us today. Everyone, go
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: to votesaveamerica.com slash Georgia, adopt Georgia, and let's get to work. Bye, guys.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Bye, everyone.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somenator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support. And to
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: every week.