Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 225. Alison Mariella Désir, Author of 'Running While Black'

Transcript

225. Alison Mariella Désir, Author of 'Running While Black' · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This world will not kill my son, like I'm going
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: to do everything in my power to ensure that he
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: is safe, to ensure that I try to shift systems
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  Speaker 1: and communities so that he is safe and not just him,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: everybody like him.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: What's going on, Emily Abadi?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here?
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  Speaker 3: You are listening to episode two hundred and twenty five,
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  Speaker 3: A Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I connect with
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  Speaker 3: everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts and industry
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  Speaker 3: CEOs about their highest ties, toughest moments, and everything in between.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: We all go through hurdles in life, and my goal
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  Speaker 3: through these discussions is to empower you to better navigate
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  Speaker 3: yours and move with intention so that you can stride
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  Speaker 3: towards your own big potential and of course, have some
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: fun along the way. For episode two hundred and twenty five,
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: I am chatting with Alison Mariella Desier. She's the new
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  Speaker 3: author of Running Wallet Black, as well as a disruptor
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: and a mother. In today's episode, she talks about being
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: in a really dark place before picking up running, using
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: drugs and trying to numb the pain of her depression,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: and how doing that, how choosing sport reminded her of
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: what it was like to feel again really powerful imagery. There,
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Alison talks about starting a running movement in Harlem called
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Harlem Run, with a goal to make running more inclusive
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  Speaker 3: and welcoming to people of color. She also chats with
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: me about what it felt like to be at the
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  Speaker 3: forefront of media attention for her efforts, despite knowing that
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  Speaker 3: so many people that looked like her felt othered in
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  Speaker 3: the space. Alison really opens up about so many topics here,
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  Speaker 3: from what it feels like to be a black mother
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: raising a black sun in today's world, her feelings about
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  Speaker 3: the establishment of the running industry's Diversity Coalition, and ultimately,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Alison just really challenges us all to level up, right,
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  Speaker 3: to level up, to create the community that we want
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  Speaker 3: to see, to be a part of the conversation, to
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  Speaker 3: be a part of the change so that ideally we
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  Speaker 3: can all run free. Really really happy to have had
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  Speaker 3: the opportunity to sit down with Alison. If you're like me,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: you've probably seen her name a whole bunch over the
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: last few weeks in your podcast feeds. It is important
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: for me that this episode, that this conversation brought things
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: to light that I hadn't heard her talk about just yet,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: so I hope that it is one that you enjoy again.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Her book new book called Running Wall Black. I will
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: link to it in the show notes. Make sure you
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: following along with Hurdle over on social At Hurdle Podcast,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: I am over at Emily a Body and I have
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  Speaker 3: two New York City marathon events to share with you.
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  Speaker 3: All the sign ups aren't live just yet, but save
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  Speaker 3: the date for both Wednesday, November two and Saturday, November fifth.
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  Speaker 3: More information to come soon. But you were asking me
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: if there's going to be a moment an opportunity for
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: us to get together, especially on the home turf, and
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: of course there was never any doubt. So save those
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: dates again. More invotacom soon. I cannot wait to come
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: back together. Last little bit of housekeeping. I'm hunting listener questions,
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: so please send me one. Let me answer your question
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: on an upcoming episode of the show. The link to
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: leave me a voice message and ask one is in
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: the show notes.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: With that, let's get to hurdling.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Today.
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  Speaker 3: I am sitting down with Alison Mary Ella Daisier.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: How are you doing today?
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  Speaker 1: I'm feeling so great and happy to be here.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to have you.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I thought a lot about how I want
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: to just start this conversation, and I want to kind
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  Speaker 3: of invert it from my normal conversation here on the
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: show by asking you a question I typically reserve for
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  Speaker 3: the end. Right now, someone comes to your Instagram page,
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  Speaker 3: they see the new author of Running while Black, They
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  Speaker 3: see a mother, a disruptor. When you look in the mirror,
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  Speaker 3: what is it that you see looking back at you?
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  Speaker 1: That's a great question. I still see myself, honestly, as
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  Speaker 1: being like in my early twenties, trying to figure things out,
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  Speaker 1: and I have to pinch myself and remind myself I've
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  Speaker 1: come a long way. I have a voice that not
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  Speaker 1: only matters just inherently, but that people are listening to,
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  Speaker 1: Like I'm not just this person floating around in space
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  Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, Like there's still a lot
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  Speaker 1: for me to figure out, but I'm making an impact.
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  Speaker 1: So I sort of have to be like, you're not
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  Speaker 1: a child anymore. Else, you are a grown as woman.
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  Speaker 2: A grown ass woman.
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  Speaker 3: But isn't that interesting because I can sympathize with that idea,
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  Speaker 3: that note that when I look in the mirror, more
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  Speaker 3: often than not, I also see a version of my
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  Speaker 3: younger self exactly exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't I mean, I don't know if
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  Speaker 1: that ever changes. I've heard older people say that they
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: feel x age or that they don't. There's sort of
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: always this incongruence between who they are supposed to be
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: or who the world knows them to be, and then
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: who they are on the inside. So maybe that's just
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: a beautiful kind of confusing part of life, A.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Beautiful confusing part of life.
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  Speaker 3: I mentioned in noting what's going on your Instagram profile?
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  Speaker 2: Author?
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  Speaker 3: How does it feel? How are you actually feeling in
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  Speaker 3: this moment?
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  Speaker 1: I would say overwhelmed in a wonderful way. You know,
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  Speaker 1: there's been such positive feedback for my book. There has
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  Speaker 1: been a little bit of trolling, but nothing that has
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  Speaker 1: gotten in the way of just the good vibes. But
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  Speaker 1: it's almost like, you know, I'm reading all this positive
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  Speaker 1: feedback and I almost have to like put my phone
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  Speaker 1: down and just like ground myself because all of that
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  Speaker 1: is excellent and that's what you want. But also I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to get so caught up in like the
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  Speaker 1: hype and the buzz and lose sight of this moment,
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  Speaker 1: what it means the story that I'm here to tell, right, Like,
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of Yeah, it's so exciting to get
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  Speaker 1: likes and comments and retweets and all of that, but
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  Speaker 1: just trying to stay grounded and in that think of
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: each step along the way as one thing. Right Like,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I'm having this book tour, which is one thing, but
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: within that book tour, there are like fifteen dates, and
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  Speaker 1: I want each of those events to be one that
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I'm fully present for. I want each conversation that I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: have to be one where I'm showing up for myself.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not just like saying the same thing that I've
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: said on another podcast. I'm trying to be as intentional
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  Speaker 1: as possible because things like this it may never happen again,
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  Speaker 1: and I want to fully enjoy this time that it's happening.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really good perspective.
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  Speaker 3: I have to double click on what you said about
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: the trolls. How do you not linger in that negativity
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  Speaker 3: and focus on the positive?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I saw just one in response to
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Runners World. Runners World had tweeted a video that just
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: came out and the person said, stop making everything about race,
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  Speaker 1: And of course I was like, first, I was triggering,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I could go in, and then
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, but I don't even know who this
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  Speaker 1: person is. This comment was clearly meant to be provocative
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  Speaker 1: and to incite that kind of response, and I'm here
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  Speaker 1: for meaningful conversation, so I just have to like redirect
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: myself as quickly as possible not get sucked in. Like
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  Speaker 1: what does a troll want? They want you to give
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  Speaker 1: all your energy to this conversation that really is not
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  Speaker 1: changing or transforming anything, right, So just don't get sucked in,
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  Speaker 1: is what I tell myself.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes I feel as though that idea of what was
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  Speaker 3: their goal to incite x y Z, I almost feel
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  Speaker 3: as though that may be giving them more credit than
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  Speaker 3: they even deserve, right, Like, in the effort or you know,
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  Speaker 3: whatever it is that they put out into the world,
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  Speaker 3: I don't often think that they realize that there's a
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  Speaker 3: person on the other side of whatever screen that they're
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  Speaker 3: looking at that's a real human being.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely true, And in moments where I've been the worst
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  Speaker 1: version of myself, I have also done that, Right. I
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  Speaker 1: have said something to a person or about a person
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  Speaker 1: not realizing like, this is a real human and that's
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  Speaker 1: not an effective form of communication. I wouldn't say that
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  Speaker 1: I've trolled people, but I've certainly had I've certainly said
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  Speaker 1: things and then and even I've said things where I
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: know the person, then I've texted or called the person
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  Speaker 1: and been like whoa Like that was not what I wanted.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to contribute to a hate campaign against
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  Speaker 1: you because I know you as a human. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's I try not to be that worst version of myself,
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  Speaker 1: but those vibes out there are just not ones I
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  Speaker 1: want to get into.
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  Speaker 3: You answered what my follow up question to that note
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  Speaker 3: was going to be, which is have you ever gone
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  Speaker 3: back and said I was wrong? Which takes a really well,
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  Speaker 3: it takes courage, I would say, sometimes it takes being
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  Speaker 3: brave to admit your biggest mistakes.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, I have, and there are probably times when
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  Speaker 1: I haven't. There might be somebody listening who's like, but
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: you didn't apologize to me, so you know, I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not perfect. And honestly, the way that
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: social media is set up really is sometimes to incite
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  Speaker 1: bad feelings and things that things that go viral or
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: think often things that are like highly sexual, highly controversial,
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  Speaker 1: very hateful right, And so I also have to remember
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  Speaker 1: like not to feed into the machine, and as best
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: as possible, shaming people is really not an effective means
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  Speaker 1: of creating change. I have been in the conversations where
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I've shamed people, and what I realize is that just
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: causes somebody to go more underground and feel like I
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  Speaker 1: am a bad person. Therefore I will never try again.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's different when you're talking about corporations and
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: you know, very powerful then or institutions where you must
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  Speaker 1: you must use all means necessary to get the message out.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know it's it's meaningful. Conversation is always
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: important when it can be had. If I find myself
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: in a place where I'm unsafe physically or psychologically, then
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: that's a whole different story, and it's like get out
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  Speaker 1: of here.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And if you had an opportunity now to
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: kind of speak to that version of yourself, would you
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: have a piece of advice perhaps to offer them?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say have more empathy in that moment,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and yeah, like empathy is hard, but have more empathy
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  Speaker 1: and think long term, think about you know the reason
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: why often I've made comments or I've done things or
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: in the future. I'm sure I will operate in a
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: way I don't love, but it's because I'm feeling pain
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: and I want something to change. So in that moment, honestly,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you have to step back and say, well, as bringing
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: this other person pain going to lead to change, is
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: there another approach that I can take right? Right?
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: And it's no wonder you're dealing with trolls. You're having
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: to think about things from different perspectives because the topics
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: that you are speaking out on. It's not just cool
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: and calm conversation all the time. So talk to the
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: hurdlers a little bit about this work that you're doing
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: as a disruptor. Talk to us a little bit about
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: how you have been come the author of Running Well Black.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very good question, and that's you know,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: that is absolutely the story that I'm telling in this book,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: which is why I start with my youth and I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: start with sharing these little moments that ultimately add up
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and make me into the person who I am today.
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  Speaker 1: Moments where I found that I was the other or
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  Speaker 1: the only the only black person, the only black woman
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: in a room, where people underestimated me, where people confuse
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: me with other people, where people made assumptions about what
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: I was capable of. And what I found was that
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: my reaction to that was always wanting to say the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: thing that needs to be said, always, you know, standing
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: in my truth, knowing my history and what my people
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: have done, and seeking to create space for that. I
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: credit a lot of that to my parents, particularly my father,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: who if you ask them a single question, like you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'd ask him for help as I'm setting for a test,
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  Speaker 1: and he would just give me like the history of
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the world world. No. I always had to be careful
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: asking questions because you wouldn't get a two response, you
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: would get you know, ours response. But so I was
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: always very deeply rooted in history. But the real history,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: not the history that they tell you in school, right,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: because oftentimes what you learn in school is determined by
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: those who are in power. So I always grew up
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: like with this little disruptor sense of self. And when
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I found running, I was going through a period of depression.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I found I saw a friend of mine who was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: training for a marathon, a black guy who is not
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: what you see in magazines. And I know hurdlers. I
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: know you know about this because part of what you
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: speak about, Emily is body image and size and how
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: even how you look is not what is presented in media.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: So I saw this person became attracted to history, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: then I fell in love with running myself. But the
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: industry and the community did not look like me and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: did not tell me as what a runner looked like.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Okay, I love this thing, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: love this place, but I need to shift it so
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that more people like me can see themselves.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I know you grew up in a in a New
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Jersey suburb, right, Yes, it's interesting to me. I went
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: to a book talk last night for a woman that
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: I met in the journalism space. Her name is daniel Prescott.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: She has a book that just came out called Token
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Black Girl. And at the talk, she was talking with
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: a moderator who was also black, and they were talking
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: about how, despite of course them both being black skinned,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: that they had a very different black experience, her growing
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: up in Greenwich, Connecticut and him growing up like in Bedsty,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: where like it was always a competition to be like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: am I blacker than you?
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Versus Danielle being the.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Quote unquote token black girl in so many of her
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: spaces so to hear about you entering into the running
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: communit and feeling so othered, it's not surprising, but it
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: is unfortunate.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I love that, and now I need to buy this book. Yeah.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: What's also was important about my story is that, Yeah,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: there is no single way of being black, right, And
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: when I was crafting my story, I wanted to make
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: it clear that just because I didn't grow up in
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: bedstie or in an inner city didn't necessarily have violence
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: or some of the kind of tropes that people associate
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: with blackness. I still was harmed by white supremacy. I
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: still was harmed by racism, right. It shows up in
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: all different ways, and all of our stories are valid
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and important. So, yeah, whether you're being whether you're the token,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: or whether your story is about who's the most, who's
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the blackest, so the most, whatever, they all are stories
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: of people who have been harmed by racism.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: And before we touch on you really feeling like the
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: other when you still just show up to various groups
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: in the New York area, I do want to make
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: sure that we give some breath to your journey with
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: depression and how that was something that drove you to
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: running back in twenty twelve. Can you talk this through
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit about how running aided those feelings for you?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? Running. So, like I said, I saw this person
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: who was training for a marathon, and I was really
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: just in such a dark place and felt like I
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: felt so helpless that seeing him talk about the transformational experience,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I was like willing to try anything. And a marathon
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: certainly was never something that I thought I would do.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: But I again connected with his message, and for me,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: just the act of signing up for that marathon meant
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: getting out of my house meant you know, not I
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: was regularly overdosing on xen X and drinking a lot
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: other things just to sort of feel like, you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: to not exists. So just getting out of my house,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: going to the team and training office, signing up for
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: this thing, and leaving my credit card information because it
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: was fundraising, right, So leaving my credit card information that
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I knew good and will I could not pay for
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: was a big deal for me. But what I think
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: as I reflect on it, what gave me the most
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: hope was this idea that you have the sixteen week
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: training plan that guarantees you will run a marathon at
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the end and on the one hand, I was like,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: how could anybody guarantee that outcome? But on the other hand,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm going to put
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: all of my faith into this that if I follow
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: all of the steps, I too will be able to
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: accomplish it. And that is what completely transformed my world.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Week by week, I was doing like a little bit
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: more or a little bit different than I had done,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: and I was accomplishing these small goals that would lead
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to this bigger goal. And after completing my marathon, I
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: took on that sort of that kind of practice. I decided, Okay,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna apply this to apply this method to finding
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: a job. Right So I created an Excel document, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: week by week I was applying to jobs. I did
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that with everything in my life. And I also realized
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that while running was therapeutic for me, I needed to
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: go to therapy and I needed to get on medication.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So I credit all of that shift in my mental
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: health to taking a chance on myself, taking a chance
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: on this marathon. And I want to be clear that
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: for me, it was all of these things working together,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: mental like seeing a therapist, running, building community, medication, all
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: of those things together are what allowed me to maintain
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: my mental health. And you know, life continues to sometimes
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: be difficult. When I after giving birth to my son,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I was very, very depressed to postpartum depression and anxiety,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and I again turned to each of these tools to
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: help me through those moments. Yeah.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't accountability in the form of putting your money
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: where your mouth is like one of the best things ever?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? Absolutely? Yeah. I mean I think it's what It's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: so hard, It's so hard to get started, but there
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: is this momentum that builds, and it is the accumulation
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of all of these seemingly small choices that add up
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: to change.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you for sharing about your journey.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I think what's really important in what I try to
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: highlight here on the show is that depression can look.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So different for so many different people.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I remember once someone using the word I just felt stuck,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: and for some reason, that word stuck really resonated with me. So,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: before we move on, are there any buzzwords? Are there
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: any descriptors that you can use to really talk us
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: through what it felt like for you before you found running.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like I was a shell of myself.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was just existing, like not living.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: And part of why I was using substances, whether alcohol
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: or you know, prescription medication, is because I just wanted
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to get to the next part of my life, whatever
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that meant. Right. I just felt like, Okay, this is
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: this rough patch and I just want to I would
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: say to close friends and family who didn't know how
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: to respond, I would say, I just want to wake
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: up in ten years. Right. So I felt like I
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: was just this lifeless shell and running created as spark, right, Like.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: That's also this what I Running was so powerful to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: me because it gave me an experience of being embodied again.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I had been so numb and separate of myself that
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: through running, I started to feel sore, and I started
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: to feel my chest and my breath and it was
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: this connection like, oh, I am like my body is
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: working with me. I can tell my body to do
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: things and I'll get this result. So running was just
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: this beautiful sense of revisiting and reuniting with my body.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Right, feeling capable, feeling at all again when you didn't
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: want to feel in the slightest before that that's really special.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that's you know, I encourage everybody, Like,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: not everybody wants to be a runner, not everybody will
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: love the sport, but just the act of movement is
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: incredibly powerful, no matter what you're going through and no
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: matter what that movement looks like to you.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you mentioned the Excel spreadsheet applying some of
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: the lessons that you learned on the run toward finding
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: your next job, and you're remissive. I didn't mention that
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you also got a master's degree in counseling psychology in
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, followed by another master's in twenty eighteen. Education
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: that was your third So you've had a fair amount
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: of education.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: What happens for you on the job front?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I listen, I could be a student for
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I also credit that to my parents, who are always,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: you know, on Sunday's. They were like reading and reading
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: high level books and having conversation and I just am.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I'm a really curious person and I love to learn.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So but despite all this education, I still couldn't find
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: a job that I wanted to do. I knew I
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: started to as I went through these master's programs. I
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: started to realize that I did not want to be
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: have a nine to five job. I didn't want to
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: feel sort of isolated, or I didn't want to feel
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: like I had to narrow all of my interests into
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: one industry, right Like I didn't want to be a doctor,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: a lawyer, an engineer, scientist, sort of things that I
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: had heard growing up. I wanted to have a space
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: where I could use my love of people and community,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: my curiosity, my skills from my masters and counseling right
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: in listening to people and understanding and and help guiding
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: them on a path. But I didn't know what that was.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And in my book I tell that story of like
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: discovering how I could piece together something that would earn
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: me money, but that also brought me a lot of joy.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: And part of my master's program, one of the classes
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: we took was career counseling, where I finally realized that
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: a career is not just you know, you don't have
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to it's a privilege, but you don't have to be
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: limited by what you hear, right like what's doctor, lawyer,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. Right like that, you also
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: have the capacity to craft a life based around what
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: lights you up inside. And I feel very fortunate for
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: my education and for this particular class and space to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: learn that.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: And as you are weaving your way down this path
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: of trying to figure out what lights you up, you
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: also during this time in I believe twenty thirteen found
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Harlem Run.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right now. It all seems to be like
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: pieces of a puzzle that I was putting together. But
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I had no idea there was a puzzle that was
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: working on right. I was just I had gone through
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: this incredible experience of that first marathon and it changing
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: my life. But also recognizing that there weren't many black
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: people who I was running with or who were part
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: of the team and training experience. So I wanted to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: create a space for us in Harlem. And I had
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: no idea. I mean, I was hopeful that it would
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: grow because I was showing up every Monday for six months.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: But when it grew to be ten people, I was like, Oh,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: this is it. And then it was twenty five people
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, we've made it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Then we bought like hoodies and I was like, oh,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: like we're super legit. It's like as like I just
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: kept thinking like this is the best or the most
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: impactful and I've been surprised and delighted in so many
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: ways by what has come out of that. Just wanting
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to start something for my community.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: A hoodie really just makes everything so much more of that.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, I was like, yo, people will see our
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: name on something. People also just like you know, Now,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: maybe we take it for granted because there are so
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: many clubs and crews and there are so many places
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: where people feel seen. But this idea of like, I mean,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: that's why we wear any kind of brand, right, because
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: this means something.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So I just felt so just it felt so special
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that people saw that their values and sense of self
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was so deeply connected to this thing I started called
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Harlem Run, that they wanted to wear it on the chest.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: So, as Harlem Run begins to gain traction, obviously you
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: are at the forefront of that, knowing that there is
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: an issue within the running community with its lack of blackness,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: let's call it what it is, and also being identified
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: more and more by conventional media as this superstar who
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: is creating this movement in Harlem. How did that feel
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: for you to kind of be singled out and be
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: at the forefront while also knowing that there was so
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: much work to be done.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: That's a really good question.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I started to think about, I mean, this idea of
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: a token black girl. Right, I started to piece together, like,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: certainly what I was doing was important for my community.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But I started to recognize through the immedia attention that oh,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I'm being recognized because of the novelty around it. Which, okay,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I was happy to be sharing my story and changing
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: the narrative and inspiring other people, but also I wanted
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: to be part of making sure that there were more
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: people like me. Right, it wasn't good enough that I
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: was getting or wasn't that didn't really give me the
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: deep sense of joy that I was getting. I was
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: seeing regularly getting this attention, It's like, okay, but starting
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: to think about, well, why is it that I am
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: the only one in this space, and what are the
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: barriers and what is this recognizing that there is an
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: industry here, right, that there are people who are making
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: money off of running the business of running, and they
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: are the ones who are dictating what are runner looks like.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: They're the ones that are dictating what stories are seen
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: as important, who's seen as valuable. And so I started
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: to That's when I really started to question and think
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: about how could I make and a difference in shifting
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: all of this right, Like, I'm not just I don't
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: just want to be the face of something. I want
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to be behind the scenes, shifting the conversation and the narrative.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: Was there any one conversation that you think back to
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: toward the beginning of your work, which we'll get into,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: that made you realize the opportunity you had.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And perhaps at that moment your importance.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there are many, but one that just immediately came
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to mind that I don't actually address in the book.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: But I had just completed Run for All Women, which
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: was a run from Washington Harlem to Washington, d C.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: We raised over one hundred thousand dollars, and at the time,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I was sponsored by under Armour and Kevin Plank issued
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: this statement around about Trump. I don't even remember the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: exact statement, but I immediately felt this sense of just
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: like that was it law in my body? Right? I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: am sponsored by this brand. I of course cannot represent
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: or speak to all things that the brand does, but
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: this is so misaligned with my values. And I posted
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: something on Instagram and I later found out that I
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: was the first under Armor sponsored athlete to post like
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: later Missy Copeland would post and Steph Curry would post.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: But that felt really dangerous for me to say this
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: because I also I am not Missy Copeland or step Curries,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: so I could easily be like, all right, your contract's over.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: So it felt really dangerous. But it also felt really
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: significant and important to let my community know and stand
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: up for what I believed in. And that actually led
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to me having a meeting with Kevin Plank and an
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: opportunity to have conversation with him, and that was really
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: powerful to me because I was like, Oh, the industry
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is listening, These CEOs are listening, and that means that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I can and will be continue to be intentional with
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying, right, and that integrity is so important.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: So I think that was Again, there are many moments,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: but that was really significant for me and recognizing, oh,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: my audience is not just like this community or that community,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: It is the builders and owners of the industry.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And as you mentioned, you were an under Armour
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: athlete at the time, but this also helps you to
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: realize that you have an opportunity to create this kind
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: of change and prompt these dialogues everywhere else across the industry.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: After this moment with the under armour CEO, where do
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: you go from there? Where else do the important conversations
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: start happening?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I started to So you know, I had
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: just then run for a woman, and I started to
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: think I was developing more of a language of what
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I wanted to say. Right, That's also what this book is.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: It's a journey of me discovering the language and then
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: having the confidence to be a disruptor. But you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: if we fast forward to the pandemic and twenty twenty,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: what I had of my son in July of twenty nineteen,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: and that whole experience of pregnancy and giving birth as
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a black woman, I mean, it was incredible. I'm obsessed
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: with my son, but it also made clear all of
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: these disparities that are beyond my control. Right when having
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: my son, I was deathly afraid that I was going
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: to die, that I wasn't going to make it through childbirth,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: because the statistics on black maternal health are so poor
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: in this country, right in this country, and it's across
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: socioeconomic lines. So you're talking about people like Serena Williams
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: almost dying during childbirth. So it was like a whole
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: new set of concerns. And on top of that, I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: had always, of course known my mortality as a black woman,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: my husband is a black man, of moving through space
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: as in a white supremacist country, but then having a
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: son who I might one day have to grieve for,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: like Tamir Rice or a mott Arbery. So when the
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: pandemic hit in a mod Arbery was murdered, I just
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: felt this new sense of In my book, I think
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I say I suddenly had less fucks to give in
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: the most colloquial sense, but I have this new energy
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of like this world will not kill my son, Like
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do everything in my power to ensure
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that he is safe, to ensure that I try to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: shift systems and communities so that he is safe and
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: not just him, everybody like him. So it was just this, Yeah,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I can't even describe it. If people thought that I
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: was bold before having a person who I'm completely responsible
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: for meant that I was going to do everything in
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: my power to ensure he was protected.
• 32:41
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  Speaker 3: a big undertaking, something that many who could share those
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  Speaker 3: Do you feel as though you've always had this boldness
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: within you. Was this learned behavior or was this something
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: that was instilled in you from a young age.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think this has always been in me.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: I think what has changed is the platform has gotten
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: bigger and the stakes have gotten higher. Right, But I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: think this was always just who I was. It's something
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: that my parents noticed from a very very early age.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: And as I've moved in my career, and as I've moved,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you know, gotten more attention and notoriety. Like I said,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the stakes have become higher, and the things that I've
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: said come with consequences, and so there is there's a
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: bunch of privilege with being able to say something and
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: have the feel enough psychological safety or physical safety to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: say it. And I'm not saying that I always feel
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: those things, but I have grown accustomed to being disruptive
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: and taking that chance. Right. So, Yeah, when the stakes
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: are your son's life and your own comfort and ability
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: to live in this world, like I just was willing
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to do whatever it took.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: I appreciate in the opening of the book, you have
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: this art which displays both us running history and black
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: people's reality, and you're talking about a mod Arbery's murder
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. Here it says a mod arbery is
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: shot by a vigilante. Breonna Taylor, Tony McDade, and George
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Floyd are killed by police, and then shortly after that
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: October twenty twenty, the Running Industry Diversity Coalition is founded.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: When that diversity coalition was founded, how did it make
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: you feel?
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Initially, I was fed up. Did not want anything to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: do with this coalition because it seemed to me that
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: it was started by white people who wanted to do
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: something but had absolutely no knowledge of the issues, right,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: And so it just felt it felt really disingenuous to
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: me that this group would come together to try to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: do something without the proper knowledge or skills, and it
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: felt like it would be a burden for me to
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: get involved and have to bring people along, right, particularly
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: during this time when because of lockdown, it's not that
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: there were more murders or injustices happening, they just hit
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: different right, So initially I was I was really frustrated,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: and I shared a lot of resentment with this group,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: which you can read through that. You know, we work
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: through all these issues and we continue to work through
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: these issues, but this is also it is rare that black, white, Asian,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you know, any that any group of that people of
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: color are having conversations about race with white people. Right,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: We often hear you don't talk about race, you don't
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: talk about politics, you don't talk about religion. And so
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: what that means is that a lot of people do
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: not have the practice or the endurance for it. A
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: lot of white people don't have the practice or endurance
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: for it. So having these conversations seemed like they were
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: not going to go anywhere and seemed like they would
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: be more of a burden for me than anything. But
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: int sticking with it, I found that, you know that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: these are the white people in the r d C.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: As they begun to do their own education and to
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: grapple with racism and white supremacy, understand the language, understand
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: the concepts, they could show up for this coalition in
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: a way that truly could lead to meaningful change. So
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: it was one of the most difficult things that I've
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that I've ever done, honestly, and the fact that we've
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: gotten brands, retailers, events, entrepreneurs on board and understanding how
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: valuable the work of racial equity is and presenting a
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: path and how to do that is really just unprecedented
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: and incredible.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Right, And that's only kind of the tipping point or
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: a nod to a lot of the other work that
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: you have done within the running industry. You you talked
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: about the media attention and the conversations that you had
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: at under Armour, but shed some light on the other
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: roles that you've taken on in promoting more diversity and
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: inclusion within that space.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's like, that's that's all of my
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: life's work. You know. I'm I'm a kind of person
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: whom I'm a community builder, and I'm also like I'm
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: always I'm always creating something. So another recent part of
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: this was a good friend of mine, Martha Garcia, and
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I we had attended Empower Run Retreat, which is a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: wonderful retreat that takes place in March every year, hosted
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: by two women who are retailers, who recognize that women
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in that space were not given leadership opportunities, were not
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: centered and celebrated, so they created this retreat. There were
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: about fifteen women of color who attended that, and I
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: immediately started thinking about there are more than fifteen women
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of color who work in the running industry. And while
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: this was retail focused, there were also people from brands, entrepreneurs,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And I was like, where are they right?
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: And by the end of that two and a half
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: day retreat, Martha and I were like, well, we will
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: create a space that centers women, femin non binary folks
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: that addresses this so called like talent pipeline problem. What
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you often hear is oh, black people don't apply, or
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: oh there's not enough talented women of color, and it's like, actually,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: that's untrue. There are plenty of us. Maybe you don't
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: know where to look. Maybe you're not using language that
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: attracts us. Maybe your jobs are in places that are
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: so racially intolerant and uncomfortable that we don't want to
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: apply for that job. Let me just put a plug
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: for remote work there.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Nobody wants to go work in the middle of nowhere
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and be the only and face all of the racial
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: hatred that comes with that. So we decided, let's create
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: this space, and within six months we put together this retreat.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: In September of this year, over sixty five people attended.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: We had the support of sponsors like Brooks, Strava, Solomon,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Title nine, article one Eyewear. I think that's everyone who
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: really believed in our vision and the women, feminin binary
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: folk who attended. One of my favorite comments is, wow,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not crazy, And I use crazy recognizing that there
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: is ableism embedded to that phrase. I use it in
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the colloquial sense, but meaning, wow, all these feelings that
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I've had, all of these situations I've been in where
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I have not received mentorship or people have misunderstood me
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: or sort of not given me the chance, Like I'm
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: not the only one who's feeling that, Like, it's not me,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: it's the system, and that is super powerful that we
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: could provide that space, and I just look to continue
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: to build on that. I look for this woman of
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: color take the lead, retreat to be a space where
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: you can find talent, where we can nurture talent, and
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: where we can create space for hundreds thousands of more women, feminine,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: binary folk of color.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all of my questions are genuine, but this is
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: also a genuine question. Can you speak a little bit
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: to perhaps how language should be shifted or could be
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: shifted to better attract candidates of color.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. One thing that always triggers me is when I
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: see in job description must be professional, or must dress professionally,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: or must whatever the language is right, But so for
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: so long, including present day, the way that black women
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: in particular show up with our hair has been called unprofessional.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And it's not just black women. I mean, you could
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: just google it. There are stories of one that comes
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: to mind of this young black boy who is in
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: a wrestling competition head locks. They literally made him cut
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: off his locks in order to participate. Right. The Crown
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Act recently passed saying that you could not you may
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: not face work discrimination based on your hair. Right, So
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: this idea of professional is really rooted. What comes up
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: for me is this white supremacist idea of what a
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: professional looks like. I think I already mentioned this idea
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of remote work right, thinking critically about where are you
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: inviting people to come to, right and not just like
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: your The physical location might be wonderful, and you might
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: treat people with respect within that office, but if somebody
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: is and I'm not going to say any state because
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to incriminate anybody, but if you are
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: asking black and brown people to move to places that
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: have a very small non white population and have a
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: history of police violence. Think about the hostility that you're
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: bringing people into. Right. And one last example that I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: would give is not including salary.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: There's now a push in some states. I think in
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: New York it's like you must have salary in it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And what happens when you don't have salary requirements or
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: salary baselines is that people from historically excluded, historically marginalized
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: communities then have to advocate for themselves based on a
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: history of being underpaid. Right.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to bring from your book, black women in the
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: US paid thirty six percent less than white men and
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: twenty percent less than white women. That amounts to one
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: dollar for white men, seventy three cents for white women,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: and fifty eight cents for black women.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: There, you have it, right. So your refusal to share
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: what the salary means then puts it on me to
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: request my salary, and you might ask for my salary history.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: So if I suddenly am asking for what I'm actually doing,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: which let's say I'm making one hundred and fifty thousand
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: dollars a year and I say three hundred thousand dollars
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: a year, because that would put me at the equivalent
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: of a white man. It doesn't seem reasonable, right, So
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: these are the ways that if you are truly invested
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: in diverse talent, in women and women of color, if
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: non binary folks, then do us the effort, like, give
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: us the gift of not having to fight for every
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: single moment, not having to advocate so hard for ourselves,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: so that we can just show up.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just show up.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: You know, this conversation the idea of meeting candidates with
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: where they're at. For some reason, it's triggering me to
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: remember a conversation I have with Minaj Diaz. He's the
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: co founder of a meditation and movement platform called Open
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: and he was one of the first people that ever
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: said to me that when he teaches, he always adds
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: the line, if you are comfortable, close your eyes. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: that brings me about such an important sentiment that people
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: are coming to different experiences with their own series of experiences,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: with their own history. So to understand that and not
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: expect people to feel a level of comfort because you
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: feel a level of comfort is so so integral in
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: being able to move forward and being able to treat
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: peace equally.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly that is, I mean, that's exactly it. Right in
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: order for people to actually be treated equally, they need
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: to be treated differently, right, because people don't come to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: this space with the same arsenal. Right. So for example,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: and there's so many different images that they're trying to
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: convey this message, the difference between equity and equality. Equalities
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: you give everybody to the same thing. So you might
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: recall this image just cartoon where there are these three
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: people at a baseball game and they're all standing on
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the ground. One is really really short, so he's looking
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: at this fence. One is really tall, so he's looking
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: over the fence, and one is in the middle and
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: he can barely see over the face. Defense's that's equality,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: they're all there. Equity is completely removing the fence, right,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: getting rid of the obstacles, so that everybody has an
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: equal view of this fence uninterrupted. Right. And so that's
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the idea. And for people who have privilege, the idea
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: of equity feels like something is being taken away, something
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that was once just for you. Now all these other
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: people have it. It feels like you have less. No,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: in fact, now we all just have access the way
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that you once had. But yeah, I mean that's why
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you often face friction in these conversations. While you hear
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: white nationalists chanting things like X group will not replace me.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: This feeling of being replaced is really a feeling of
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: equity happening. And when I'm in a place where I
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: can have empathy empathy for folks like that, it's like
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: you still matter. But guess what we matter too. We're
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: not saying that you don't matter. We're just putting this
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: particular emphasis on us mattering because we have historically not mattered.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: Right, So let's bring this conversation back to the running
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: community and your experience within the running community, because I
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: would then dare to say that there was, per your
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: account at the time, a massive lack of equity within
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: the running space, and especially here in New York City, where.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: You were absolutely I mean, I share some examples of
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: when I was starting Harlem Run, of visiting different groups
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: to get a sense of what they felt like, to
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: see if there were opportunities collaborate, to collaborate, and just
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: feeling seeing that these spaces were not spaces for me. Right,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: there's there's a group where you know, I showed up
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: and there were hundreds of white bodies at six point
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, screaming and cursing and carrying on,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and thinking about what would that look like if it
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: was black people doing the same thing in front of
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the mayor's house no less, Right, I was looking I
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: experienced going to groups that were led by black and
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: brown men, but that you know, patriarchy and this idea
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: of what how black women should show up meant that
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't thought of as a as a partner. I
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: was thought of as secondary or unimportant. Right. I looked
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: at the ways that certain groups were receiving sponsorship and
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: attention because they fit a certain idea of runner looks like,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: of what how fast a runner is, or you know,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: whatever that narrative was, And I would say that, you know,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: there's still a lot of problematic pieces within the New
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: York City running community, but things have and are changing.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: But that change only comes when, again, people with privilege
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: recognize that other people are not being served and that
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: it's your role, is somebody with privilege, to try to
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: dismantle those systems. Right, we folks who don't have folks
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: who are oppressed in some ways. Of course we can
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: yell and scream and shout, but that is why allies
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: are important, right because allies already have more power, and
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: so being brought into that being supported is really essential.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: Give me an example or two promising change.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I have the opportunity to work with several brands. For example,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I with Strava. Most recently, I went to this conference
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Reuter's Momentum, which is a place that I never thought
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: that I would be, and so the CEO, Michael Horvath,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: was given an opportunity to talk about Strava and the
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: choice for that conversation was about building diverse communities and
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: how Strava is working to expand their app to more people,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: an app that began as an app for Michael and
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: his friends who were white male cyclists, and recognizing that
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: in order for Strava to meet their goals of being,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you know, the record of the world's movement, that that
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: wasn't enough, right, So that to me is really powerful
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: because this is Michael and Strava recognizing that on this
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: significant stage Reuter's Momentum, what they want to do is
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: they want to address racial equity and adversity. So that
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: was that was powerful for me. I also want to
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: give a shout out to tre the running event, which
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: is an event that I remember looking at it like
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: seven years ago and looking at the imagery and the
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: programming and just being like, this is a place for
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: old white men to get together, right, And now being
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: myself and Kiera Smalls who's the executive director of RIDC,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: and all the other RIDC board members really being integrated
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: into what the programming is and having conversations this is
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: the second year, but having conversations that aren't just about
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: that aren't like racism one oh one, but that are
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: talking about how do you build racial equity framework into
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: all of the work that you're doing, which means that
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: you have, yes, conversations and education around racial equity, but
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: you're also featuring people of color who are designers, who
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: are you know, content creators, Like we are black and
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: brown people are more than just talking about this experience,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: we are also experts in many fields throughout the industry
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and deserve space.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: This makes me think about the other stat that you
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: had cited at the top half of your book, noting
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: that out of the five hundred plus woman that ran
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: the US Olympic marathon trials in twenty twenty, four of
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: them were black and one was African American. And the
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: craziest thing for me now looking back on that experience
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: as a white woman being there that day, is I
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: don't recall that for a second, right, Like I don't
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: recall looking at the field and thinking to myself like,
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: where are all the woman of color here, like what's
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: going on? Like No, But now in retrospect, like reading
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: that and being aware to that, it is clearly evident
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: that we need to do a better job of providing
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: and creating access and also opportunity instead of, you know,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: to an extent of gatekeeping opportunity, how can we make
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: it more inclusive and provide.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: In Yeah, I mean, and I remember seeing that, and
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: of course I was rooting for Alophine. And then I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: saw the woman whose name escapes me, but she the
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: woman who identifies as African American, and she had her
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: hair and her fro and I was like throwing up
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: the fists and rooting for her. She's now I think
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: she's a Patagonia trail athlete. Right. But to your point,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: awareness is key because we are all trained to or
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say, we are all trained for many white
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: people being the default all of the time, having everything
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: from history, to media, to businesses center. Your experience means
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: that you can walk into pretty much anywhere and be
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: represented and feel seen and you know safe, and so
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you don't have an awareness that you that there might
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: not be people of color in that space. So I
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: think awareness is the first piece because without that awareness,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: you can't implement change, right like, you can't change what
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: you can't see. That's also a reason why RIDC is
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: focusing on to key research projects. One that's in the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: running industry at large about employment, so looking at like
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: we know that the industry is very white, but we
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: want to get all of those statistics around employment in
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: different sectors of the industry. And then one that's more
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: focused on trail because once we have those numbers, once
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: we can say, well the industry really is ninety five
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: percent white in terms of like leadership and ownership, then
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: we can chip away at it. So I hope that
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: my book is one that it does two things. It
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: creates a level of awareness and then it creates an
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: empowerment to do something about it. Now that you've seen
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: these statistics, what can you do? And for a coach
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: that might let's say you're a cross country coach, that
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: might be being more intentional with students, right, So, certainly
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: students will just show up, but going having conversation with
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: students who are talented and perhaps would like to be
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: in cross country, having conversations with them and their families
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: about what is stopping them from showing up right and
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: inviting them into the space. If you are in the
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: C suite or CEO, start revising your job descriptions, start
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: looking for the ways in which you can create mentorship
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: for talent that might be at entry level or other
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: positions so that they can begin to occupy these roles. Right,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: each of us, in our own space can make a difference.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: And that's really what I hope this book shows.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: People, yeah, and very different experiences. Let's call it size
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: inclusion and diversity versus you know, color and diversity. But
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: you said it on that you hit the nail on
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: the head with the concept of if you don't see her,
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: can't be her. For so long, personally, I was frightened
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: to go to any sort of run club or speed
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: situation because I felt othered right like, I felt like
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: I was too big to be there.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't belong there. No one there looked like me.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: And yes, again I acknowledge extremely different conversation, but it
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: is important to identify what those barriers might be and
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: how can we include people because at the end of
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: the day, like that should be and I will should
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: on that, like that should be the goal of clubs
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: and culture that are for fun, that are for you know,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: we're just a bunch of adults running, right because we
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: enjoy running, exactly.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: No, And you're so right, because the thing is, you know,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: when somebody what often happens is somebody shares an experience
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: that's different than yours, and you want to shut it down, right,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: So you want to say, like, Emily, please, like what
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: are you talking about? Of course you can show up,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: But what I invite people to do is when you
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: hear a perspective that's different than than yours, like, hold
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the tension of that experience being different from yours and
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: also being valid, right, like and Emily saying that. Emily's
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: not saying like and I hate all of you. We
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: say I don't feel seen and I want to be
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: part of this. Can you create an opening for me? Right?
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: So it's like it's an invitation. Take it as an
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: invitation rather than an attempt to erase your worldview or
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: your truth.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Now I think this is a good point in our
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: conversation to note that the title of your book was
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: almost something else.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Talk to us about that.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Initially the title of my book was the Unbearable Whiteness
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: of Running, And you know, that version of the book
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: was more of a manifesto, more of something that I
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: would say was kind of like an anti racism book
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: that would go through and point out more instructionally what
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I saw is problematic in the industry. And in talks
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: with my editor and publisher, there was this sentiment that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to write a book that centered whiteness.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to write a book that actually centered myself
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and my experience, and that made all of the difference.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: Trish Day is an incredible editor, and it allowed me
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: to really be vulnerable, for people to get to know
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: me through the book and therefore be a more powerful book. Right,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: because you go on this journey with me and you
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: understand that each of us is always trying to do better,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: myself included. Right, I get things wrong all of the time.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: All of us do. That's normal and natural, but we
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: still have to work together collectively to make changes that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: we all really care about. Because the good news is
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that I do believe that the running industry is well
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: positioned to make change. We like doing really difficult, uncomfortable
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: things for a long time. We can't stop talking about
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: running and sharing it with people. We want everybody to move,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: and our industry depends on it. Right as demographics shift,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: we need to invite new people into this space. So
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: I think we are very primed to make a change,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: and this book, I hope, is going to be an
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: additional catalyst for that.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: What excites you right now?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: I am so excited that I have the opportunity to
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: go on the road and meet all of these communities
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: because I have friends who had books come out in
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: the past two years and they couldn't do that. And
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: there is just nothing more special than showing up and
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: somebody telling you their story and somebody thanking you for
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: for sharing something that resonates with them, or somebody thanking
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: you for pushing them to see the world in a
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: new way. I just, ultimately, I love people and I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: love community. So the opportunity to have this tool, my
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: book Running Well Black, that leads to these meaningful conversations
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: is like gold. Like anybody who wants to write a book, Man,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: it is really difficult and you will feel like you're
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: losing your mind a lot, But this opportunity to connect
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: with people on a deeper level is worth it.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: I think that we can all agree that we are
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: different people now in twenty twenty two than we were
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: before the pandemic.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: So much has happened.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: It feels like there's been eight years within like a
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: three year period. With that said, when you look back
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: on the last two years outside of your book and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: this moment, what would you say has been one of
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: your proudest accomplishments as a disruptor, as someone who is
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: standing up for more diversity, inclusion and equality in the space.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: You know, what I'm most proud of is that I
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: am able to move seamlessly between being in front of
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: the scenes and behind the scenes, and then that role
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes championing other people. Over the past few years,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: I've had the opportunity to say other people's names and rooms,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: to elevate and uplift people's work, and that is really cool,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: right I'm not ready to disappear from the spotlight or
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: from in front of the scenes, like there's still a
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: lot of work that I want to do, but I
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: have had just such a cool opportunity to learn about
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: what other people are doing and to give them the support,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: whether it's time, whether it's financial, whether it's just there
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: to listen. I have been able to do that so much,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: and I want to continue to.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: Do that for anyone else who has a mission, a message,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: a passion that is close and dear to their heart
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: and maybe hasn't had the success that you have had
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: in championing your cause, in showing up and getting in
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: front and getting eyes. Is there anything that you would
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: offer to that person on their journey toward making a difference.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I would actually say, be more collaborative, or think about
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: whether you're being collaborative. Sometimes when we have a vision,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: you know, we're often taught like you have to relentlessly
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: pursue this single vision. But I found that I'm most
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: successful and also joyful when I'm collaborating with other people.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: So as you're sharing what it is that you're excited about,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: ask and is there a way that I can support
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: what you're doing? Is there a need that you have
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: that I can fulfill? Right? And that sort of also
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: that allows people to not feel a sense of competition.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, yeah, we can work together on this.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: So always look for ways that as you're building up
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: your gift, that you're looking to collaborate with other people
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: and looking to also support other people's gifts. And I
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: just think, you go, you get further with that strategy.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: It brings me back to that idea that if you
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: want love, you have to give love, Like if you
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: want to make a difference, then you have to embrace
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: all of that, all that comes.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: With exactly, it's an ecosystem. You have to find yourself
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: in it and you have to support it and breathe
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: life into it and know that others will do the
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: same for you.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely all right, right now, my friend, you have
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: an opportunity to offer yourself a piece of advice. Let's
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: go back to right when you started running, in that
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: moment where you felt so beside yourself, looking to alternative
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: substances to help you get through your days. You have
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: an opportunity to offer that Alison a piece of advice.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: Knowing what you know, Now, what do you tell her?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: I would say, be patient that the things that you
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: want are going to take longer than you'd like, but
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: they're coming. Often, when I think of my own this
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: only is for me. I can only speak of my
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: own journey. But when I think about, you know, moments
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: when I wished I wasn't here, when I was overdosing
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: on pills, it was a lack of patience or belief
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: that things would get better. Right, I wanted things to
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: feel better in that moment, So I would tell Alison,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: just be patient, right, it's going to take time, But
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: you will not always feel this way. The situation will
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: one day be so incredible and lovely and overwhelming that
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: you won't even know what to do with yourself.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: You won't even know what to do, you said it.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Collaboration is important. Support is important. How can the hurdler
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: support you? How can they follow along with you? Give
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: us all your details.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: First and foremost, please buy my book pre ordered if
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: you're able book purchases. The book industry is like just
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a new thing for me to find out.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: But book orders are essential to you know, like pre
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: orders in particular, let the industry know that this book
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: is going to be meaningful. But yeah, if you, if you,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: if you're even curious about this book, by it and
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: support me. You can follow me on Instagram at Alison
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: m as and Mary Dezier. My website is Alisonamdizer dot com.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's what I would say. The other piece
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: that will help not just me, but so many people
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: is to develop this awareness and curiosity. Right. I never
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: get mad at people who ask me things out of curiosity.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: I get mad at people who ask me things because
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: they intentionally want to harm me. But stay curious and
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: buy my book.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Stay curious, buy the book, and stay kind while you're
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: at it. I'm over at Emily a Body at Hurdle
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Podcast Another Hurdle Conquered.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time