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The Ridiculous Truth About Pirates, Chapter Two: History's Most Successful Pirate Was A Woman · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister MAXI
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Freight Train Williams.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Hello, I'm still in the same Amaziel.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, they call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes here
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: in BaHaB? Is this a legal inquiry? The joke that
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: never gets old? That is mister Noel Brown. We are
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: joined again with our special returning guest, one of our
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: closest friends brother in podcast arms, the one and only
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  Speaker 1: mister Matt twohands, Frederick.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Matt the taxman.
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: Frederick, my ex accidentally claimed my son as a dependent
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: this year. She's not supposed to this year, this past year.
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: So I tried to send in my taxes and guess
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: what they got sent back? So no, currently an extension period. Boys, Okay,
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: had to pay my taxes already because that's what they
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: make you do, my estimated amount. But now I've got
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  Speaker 4: to send in all my papers.
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  Speaker 3: I've always let the X claim the kid. That's just
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  Speaker 3: that I don't know. I guess I'm just nice like that.
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  Speaker 4: Well.
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  Speaker 1: Also, it's so weird to think about how the irs
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: works in the United States, where they know how much
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  Speaker 1: money you're supposed to pay, but you have to do
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: It's like you're in a toxic relationship where they're like, oh,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you should guess why, guess what it is? Can you
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: guess why I'm angry and you do it wrong?
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  Speaker 5: It's not gonna correct you, Like no, no, no, no, no,
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  Speaker 5: you gave us too much money or you're asking them
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  Speaker 5: too little back. No, that can correct you. It's only
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  Speaker 5: if we meet the error in their way that's gonna
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  Speaker 5: be you know.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, just it's ridiculous. And taxation and big government have
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  Speaker 1: always been a thorn in the sides the average person,
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  Speaker 1: so much so that it's driven some people in the
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  Speaker 1: past two acts of piracy.
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  Speaker 4: Guys. A whole group of like five people just walked
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  Speaker 4: past where we are and we'll talk about where we are.
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  Speaker 4: They all had entire pineapples filled with what looked like
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  Speaker 4: alcoholic beverages.
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  Speaker 1: Wait's was an alcohol because in our usual podcast, in
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  Speaker 1: our usual podcast studio, that would be very abnormal. Yes,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: but here it's weird that we don't have those big
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  Speaker 1: hollow pineapple booze drinks because we are here again in
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  Speaker 1: Baja Mar beautiful resort. We've been here for a couple
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  Speaker 1: of days. What are some of your favorite things you
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  Speaker 1: guys have done so far.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'm pleased to announce I did not get molested
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  Speaker 3: by a flamingo, but I was forced to hold space
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  Speaker 3: with them by our dear friend Matt Frederick. And I'm
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  Speaker 3: glad I did. I'm glad I did.
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  Speaker 1: You were forced?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt really twisted my arm about it.
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  Speaker 5: But while I was like, no, buddy, you can hide
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  Speaker 5: behind me. That's all good. The flamingos. The best thing,
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  Speaker 5: I would say was flamingos getting all up and personal
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  Speaker 5: and weird on my leg hair.
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  Speaker 2: The worst thing was stepping on a bee. I did
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  Speaker 2: step on a bee, but thankfully I'm not allergic.
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  Speaker 3: To be Was it a tropical bee?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know you were there.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, they looked like a regular bee.
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  Speaker 2: It was lookally a bee.
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  Speaker 3: Nothing right home about them.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I'm looking at a picture of the beautiful Baha
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  Speaker 4: Mar right behind us where we're recording, and.
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  Speaker 3: Man, you look at the pictures look out the window, man.
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  Speaker 4: We well, because I can see the entirety of it
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  Speaker 4: from the sea, and it's gorgeous and the scale here.
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  Speaker 4: It's hard to even really understand how many different buildings
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  Speaker 4: and restaurants. And don't forget the casino.
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  Speaker 1: Where I made so much money and my girlfriend took
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  Speaker 1: all of it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what they call a humble brag.
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  Speaker 1: There's nothing humble about it. Man, she got me.
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  Speaker 2: Am I at three steaks? You and already or am
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  Speaker 2: I too? Have they've all been delicious?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah? Man, I think you're up there.
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  Speaker 3: So Matt's up on steak, I'm down on money. Bends
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  Speaker 3: up on money and maybe even on steak.
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  Speaker 2: I've been to the same restaurants so many times they
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  Speaker 2: now know me. There's a dular. This morning they came
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  Speaker 2: out of Max's way.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, at the swimming pig, which we can hang it
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  Speaker 1: out at him.
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  Speaker 2: Very conditioned, very condition friendly.
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  Speaker 4: Have we all been watching snl uk?
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  Speaker 1: I haven't seen the latest one.
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  Speaker 3: I saw that they did a black snape riff.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, okay. They made a song I felt very much
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  Speaker 4: like the Lonely Island songs back in the day, and
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  Speaker 4: it was all about British pubs in vacation. And when
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  Speaker 4: I saw I saw, I was like, what is the
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  Speaker 4: swimming pig thing? Max keeps talking about went By. I went,
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  Speaker 4: oh my god, this is that song.
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  Speaker 1: This is that song?
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  Speaker 3: It is?
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  Speaker 1: It is a British theme, Paba and the Food. So
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  Speaker 1: what do you say, guys, let's get into it. Everybody
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  Speaker 1: check out our earlier episode on some pirates who may
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  Speaker 1: not be familiar with and tune in because in port two,
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  Speaker 1: we're moving outward across the world, literally around the world.
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  Speaker 1: We're not talking about the Caribbean. We are talking about
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  Speaker 1: the Far East. Guys. Did you know the world's wealthiest,
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  Speaker 1: most successful pirate in all of human history is a
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  Speaker 1: Chinese woman known as Chin Shee No.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I saw the name pop up in my
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  Speaker 3: research and I was very unfamiliar. And I'm so glad
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  Speaker 3: that you picked this one band, because you're really great
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  Speaker 3: at the Chinese pronunciations.
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  Speaker 5: I think the only reason I know who she is
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  Speaker 5: is I believe she is a great person. You can
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  Speaker 5: get in Civilization six. She's a great admiral.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, there's also a character based on her in the
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  Speaker 1: Pirates of Caribbean of the Caribbean franchise. Really yeah, based
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  Speaker 1: on a real person. Kind of loosely, I'm just gonna say,
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  Speaker 1: Pirates the Caribbean.
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  Speaker 2: What the Karen Knightley character.
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  Speaker 1: No, it's actually Johnny Depp's character. You have to think
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  Speaker 1: about the subtext.
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  Speaker 3: Amazing just for a chameleon that Johnny Depp.
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  Speaker 1: Sure he is actually a chamelion.
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  Speaker 4: Can you spell her names for anybody that wants to
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  Speaker 4: look it up right now?
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  Speaker 1: Sure?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The street name is chin Chese, so that would be
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  Speaker 1: c h i n shih. We'll see why that's a nickname.
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  Speaker 1: She's also known as more formally as jin ysau so
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  Speaker 1: z h n g space y I space Sao. She
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  Speaker 1: did not start off as a pirate. Well, I guess
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  Speaker 1: there are very few people who are born as pirate. Like,
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  Speaker 1: can you imagine your kid is born and the doctor says, now,
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  Speaker 1: you've got a healthy baby, boy, but there is a
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  Speaker 1: condition we want to tell you about. And the kid
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  Speaker 1: already has an eye patch and like a peg leg
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  Speaker 1: and a bird.
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  Speaker 4: That's it all.
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  Speaker 1: You can live a full life of piracy. You'll just
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  Speaker 1: have to get them a boat a certain medical condition. So, okay.
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  Speaker 1: This person comes to us in the beginning of the
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  Speaker 1: eighteenth century, and at first she is what we would
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  Speaker 1: diplomatically describe as a sex worker in a floating brothel, weird,
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  Speaker 1: but it's what it sounds like. Like. The last time
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  Speaker 1: we were over in Thailand or the first time we're
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  Speaker 1: in Thailand, we saw floating markets, which are essentially communities
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  Speaker 1: and cities linked by pretty narrow waterways. Oh, you can
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  Speaker 1: buy a house there too.
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  Speaker 3: Heck yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Did did we all watch the show Firefly?
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  Speaker 1: Yes?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, the Space Pirates show.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, it reminds me of the character you get interest
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  Speaker 4: introduced to in the first episode, the pilot, where I
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  Speaker 4: think they refer to her as a diplomat maybe, but
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  Speaker 4: she is on a space ship in all for all
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  Speaker 4: intentsive purposes functions like a brothel essentially, but also as
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  Speaker 4: diplomatic relations in some way.
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  Speaker 2: But anyone, last name, but.
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  Speaker 3: Now different.
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  Speaker 1: Well, we all know the person, and yes, that like
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  Speaker 1: a space cort is on. Yes, yes, so this this person,
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  Speaker 1: Jiang Yisao, is not that different. She is working in
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  Speaker 1: the city of Canton in this floating brothel, and she
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  Speaker 1: runs into a guy named Chang Ii or Chang the First.
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  Speaker 1: He is already a pirate. He's a big deal pirate.
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  Speaker 1: He's been terrorizing the South China seed during the Qing dynasty.
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  Speaker 1: And this is a bizarre rom come bizarre romance. So
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  Speaker 1: Chang hears about this lady right here, she's good in bed.
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  Speaker 1: We also hear she's great in business, and so yeah, right,
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  Speaker 1: double threat. So he seeks her out at this floating
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  Speaker 1: market and he says, oh crap, you're you're also hot
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  Speaker 1: and you're good at business. Oh and to your point, Matt,
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  Speaker 1: he finds out that she is using the secrets she
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  Speaker 1: learns sleeping with clients to blackmail them, to get money
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  Speaker 1: from them. They're wealthy, they're politically kills oldest time tale,
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  Speaker 1: as old as time song, as old as rhyme.
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  Speaker 3: And that was certainly a power move that women had
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  Speaker 3: in the days where you get close to powerful men,
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  Speaker 3: you have them in compromising situations, you were able to
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  Speaker 3: get dirt. Yeah, you can then use to your benefits
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  Speaker 3: patriarchical side.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: I wonder if they like compiled a bunch of files
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  Speaker 4: or something and then blockaded maybe another country to prevent
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  Speaker 4: those files from coming out or something.
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  Speaker 1: Or maybe they got dirt on people before they became
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  Speaker 1: part of an administration they weren't qualified for.
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  Speaker 4: Oh interesting, that feels light. I don't know, it feels familiar.
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  Speaker 1: Max, Please less palpably. Everything is politics. Everything is history,
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  Speaker 1: shout out dead press.
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  Speaker 5: But okay, I really wish that my facial expression could
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  Speaker 5: have been caught right looked at it.
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  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I can hit you
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  Speaker 2: all right now. I'm sorry, work, I can't.
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  Speaker 1: I know.
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  Speaker 4: This is ridiculous history.
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  Speaker 1: No, no, it's also all me. Okay, you guys play nice.
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  Speaker 1: This is a rom com kind of thing. Shen Y
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  Speaker 1: is about twenty six years old. It's eighteen oh one
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  Speaker 1: when this guy comes and says, I want to marry
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  Speaker 1: you because you're hot and good at business. How old
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  Speaker 1: she's twenty six?
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  Speaker 3: Wow?
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  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, So nothing epsteiny about it.
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  Speaker 4: Well, no, I just mean that's so in my mind,
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  Speaker 4: that's so young to already be so established and understand
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  Speaker 4: a business so well, and then to be so successful
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  Speaker 4: at it.
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  Speaker 1: That's all no, I hear you, man. And unfortunately the
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  Speaker 1: implication is that she probably started early. So this guy
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  Speaker 1: comes here, has a very weird marriage proposal, and he
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  Speaker 1: finds out the hard way that yeah, she is that
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  Speaker 1: good at business because she says, okay, Chang, I'll marry
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  Speaker 1: you if you give me equal control of all of
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  Speaker 1: your ships. And he had already United multiple rival Chinese
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  Speaker 1: pirate gangs. So he was running an empire. So it's
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  Speaker 1: kind of like if you went to and it's a
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  Speaker 1: good example, I guess for the boats Richard Branson. If
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  Speaker 1: someone went to marry Richard Branson and they said, I'll
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  Speaker 1: do it, but you have to give me all like
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  Speaker 1: all of your planes.
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna need a prenup in all your boats.
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  Speaker 1: And so Chang said yes, and so I just went out.
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  Speaker 4: That makes him a really dangerous person to the established
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  Speaker 4: governments that are operating out there. Right. Yes, we know,
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  Speaker 4: folks like Fred Hampton like how dangerous it is when
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  Speaker 4: there are disparate or disconnected groups who kind of want
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  Speaker 4: the same thing or fight for the same thing. Yes,
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  Speaker 4: I am when they Yes, when somebody or the organizations,
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  Speaker 4: you know, when somebody can come together, can bring people
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  Speaker 4: together like that, that is very dangerous to the establishment.
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  Speaker 1: And how about this, because I know we've got to
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  Speaker 1: be fair, how about instead of be saying gangs, we
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  Speaker 1: say organizations some of which were gangs.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, no, no, you're right, you're right. That is
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  Speaker 4: essentially how it's some were.
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  Speaker 1: Just like let's give lunch the school kids, right, it's
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  Speaker 1: a wide spectrum and it takes a real diplomat to
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  Speaker 1: unite those stakeholders. And at first everything is working out
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  Speaker 1: because Shanghi's how is all about this? She says, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm tired of this floating market. I'll help run the
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  Speaker 1: new family business. In six years into their marriage, her
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  Speaker 1: husband passes away. He's only forty two. We don't know
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  Speaker 1: much about how he passed away, Like we don't know
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  Speaker 1: if he was killed by the tsunami at sea, if
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  Speaker 1: he was poisoned, maybe by his wife. We just don't
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  Speaker 1: have a lot of information.
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  Speaker 4: But I'm really surprised by that. Just I feel like
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  Speaker 4: that guy would have gone out in some epic battles.
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  Speaker 1: Ladies of Glory.
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  Speaker 4: Well yeah, because again like the government somewhere would have
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  Speaker 4: said this guy can't stay.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the ching dinasty devil. I didn't like him,
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  Speaker 1: so why didn't they get him first? But regardless of
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  Speaker 1: what happens, this leaves the up and coming pirate queen
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  Speaker 1: in a very precarious position because there's a confusion based
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  Speaker 1: patriarchical society. And this is where she starts to earn
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  Speaker 1: her nickname that we mentioned, ching shit. It translates to
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  Speaker 1: Chang's widow. So that's a morbid nickname. Yeah, that's where
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  Speaker 1: you're you're every time someone meets you casually, they're reminding
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  Speaker 1: you that your husband is dead. Yeah, they're like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: you're the window lady.
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  Speaker 3: Well that is interesting though, because you do often hear
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  Speaker 3: those kind of dark nicknames associated with women and crime,
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  Speaker 3: usually something like like the.
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  Speaker 4: Black widow or the like you know what I mean,
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  Speaker 4: or competitive eating.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, Sonya Thomas, I.
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  Speaker 4: Always played that up. I can't imagine. I don't know,
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  Speaker 4: there's probably something really scary about that. I feel like
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  Speaker 4: with some of the most successful pirteers. I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 4: Black beerd in particular, some of the folks who had
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  Speaker 4: the bigger ships and the bigger beers. Well, if you
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: had a crew and you looked out and you saw
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  Speaker 4: a particular flag or you know, you you saw a
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  Speaker 4: ship that you, oh, I know that's associated with the widow,
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  Speaker 4: Like that would be a form of terror that that
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  Speaker 4: strikes way before the ship gets anywhere near your ships.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they had their own version of Jolly Roger, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that kind of thing.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's one of these things too where
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  Speaker 5: it's like maybe I don't even want to fight. Maybe
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  Speaker 5: it's just surrender because we don't want to get Charles
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  Speaker 5: vained right now?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Well, if it's Charles Vain, weavers in Firefly or Serenity, Like, okay, guys,
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  Speaker 1: I think maybe.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: Say Firefly, we don't talk about sriatedy. They had to
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: end the story quickly.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: But it's nowhere as good as Firefly, And like, let's
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: be Frank Harris's get off on a tangent. Sure, in
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: a world of remakes that are terrible and no one wants,
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: how have we never got on a season two a Firefly?
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Wait, you guys, do.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Work that might be incredible.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: It might be the next flight to Dragons.
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: You know, people talk about they want to clear up
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: scure movie. I want to clear up secure anime. Okay,
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: the excellent, excellent, after the near Tamana. Yeah, I want
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: to clear up scarean.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You're gonna want to anime it this one as well, guys.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I love that we're mentioning black Beard because after her
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: husband dies and she gets this grulish nickname, ching Shih
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  Speaker 1: starts commanding over eighteen hundred pirate ships. What an estimated
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: eighty thousand pirates for comparison to Blackbeard, who is also
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: very successful pirate. He commanded four ships and three hundred pirates.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's inconceivable.
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  Speaker 1: It's definitely that's navy at that point. Yeah, very much.
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  Speaker 5: So maybe at that point that's now.
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  Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's most of the ocean. There's one
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  Speaker 4: if there's at least one of those ships out there
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  Speaker 4: just checking things out.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, a lot of these are going to
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  Speaker 1: be sloops, right, They're gonna be smaller, but they've got
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  Speaker 1: some big boys in there. And if you look at
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: authors like Laura Suk Duncomb, the author of Pirate Women,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: The Princesses, Prostitutes and Privateers who Ruled the Seven Seas,
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  Speaker 1: you will see that a lot of a lot of
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  Speaker 1: historians called Ching Shi the greatest pirate who ever lived,
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  Speaker 1: because she pirated longer than most people in a career
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that has, you know, drop off rate, drop off drop
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  Speaker 1: off rate, she makes more money, h she ultimately will
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  Speaker 1: get to this. She ultimately gets away from the game
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  Speaker 1: just fine, which is something that is like winning the
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  Speaker 1: lottery thrice. So how did she in a society that
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  Speaker 1: really just dumps on women, how did she succeed in
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  Speaker 1: what's already a male dominated industry. She had a really
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  Speaker 1: strict code of laws. We're talking earlier about the we're
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  Speaker 1: talking earlier about the dark side of piracy in episode one, right,
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  Speaker 1: all the horrific sexual abuse and assaults that would occur.
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  Speaker 1: She had special laws about this. She said, any pirate
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  Speaker 1: who is caught giving his own orders or disobeying the
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: orders of a superior has to be beheaded on the spot.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, which is this is.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Not a three strikes kind of hr policy. And if
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: they had female captives and a pirate assaulted one of
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: those female captives under any circumstances, that pirate is also
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: put to death. If the sex between the two is consensual,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: then they are both put to death. Wow, captives do
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying she was a nice lady.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Well, that's really interesting. I I was reading a bit
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: before we came in here today about relationships amongst pirates
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: and how complicated it could be, but also how normal
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: it could be, where if you usually you would have
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: a at least in what I was reading about Caribbean pirates,
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: you would have a often a man who goes out
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: on a ship as a part of a crew who
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: would have a wife and perhaps many children back somewhere
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: wherever he was, and just the.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Man to bring up Assassin's created a good well, no.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, and your boat wife well.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: But then but then on the boat it was very
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: difficult at least what again, Like I don't only know
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: what I've read thus far, but it seemed like it
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: was very difficult to keep women on ships like that
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: because of that chaos factor of having a bunch of
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: men at sea on a ship together, you know, and
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: and there's just there were often horrific things that occurred.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Having a punishment system set up for that that is
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: that strict, especially if it's a consenting perhaps even couple
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: or two people that are attempting to become a couple
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: while they're at sea. And I wonder why that was
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: so frowned upon.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think it was her reacting to the norm. Yeah,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that shows us how bad the problem was to be
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: enacted with that severity. It's kind of like if you
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: ever see a weird sign, like you walk into a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: gas station and you see a sign that says, you know,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: no shirt, no shoes, no drunk horses, then you know
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: that something happened with a horse at some point, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: probably often enough that they eventually they threw up their
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: hands and they said, we got to put it on
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the sign.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Guys.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: You know, you don't see those anymore. And I really wish.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I wish there were. We wish that there was less
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of a sobriety movement among horses.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, nobody wants drunk horses around.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Uh. There's also Yeah, this was called the Red Flag.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: The fleet.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: We're talking about three years, a very short career of
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: piracy on the high seas. And during this time, Ching
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Sheep beefs with everybody. She fights the Qing dynasty government,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: so she fights the government of China, beats them. She
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: fights the Portuguese Navy, beats them. She fights the East
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: India Company beats them.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Whoa there.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: They all try to, you know, smash down like you said,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Max and Navy, and they don't. They're not able to
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: pull it off. But the Chinese government, just like the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: colonial governments in the Caribbean, eventually they throw up their
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: hands and they just say, hey, lady, look this is nuts.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: We will forgive everything. We'll give you amnesty if you
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: just stop pirating all over us like you're piloting all
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: over our butts and our faces. We just can't take it.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: That's like the blackjack tables right there.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Leave it on the table.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: No left This caught on the BJ tape.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I was trying to be shortened get out
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: an emergency message. Do we know roughly where she and
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: her naval forces are operating? Is it what we would
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: consider the South China see in that area of the Pacific,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: or like, I just don't. I'm trying to imagine how
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: much ground or water you could cover with that many ships.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Right, this is coastal. I think it was up and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: down that kind of eastern coast of the area. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that also meant that it was hard to catch her
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: maybe to figure out where she was at all these ships, right.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: I wonder if she had We talked last episode about
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: the Bahamas and Nassau in particular in a certain time
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: during piracy where Nassau was kind of the headquarters and
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: the place to go. I wonder if, like, if there
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: was a place like that in an island somewhere, an
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: island chain.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure there are lots of Heidi holes there too,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: especially when you get when you around the island areas
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: and when you get to places that were adjacent to
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: trade routes, like if they went I don't know if
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: they went as far south as the Strait of Malacca,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: but that would have been a huge money maker. And
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: so they couldn't beat her. They couldn't beat her. They
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: offered her amnesty and she accepted, and she went into
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: retirement with all her treasure and was never real We
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: don't really know what she did afterwards. She just flipped
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the switch, lived a quiet life. She died at the
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: age of sixty nine in eighteen forty four, which is
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: so unusual for that time and for a pirate. It
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: was like the best.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: Try a full life is a pirate is not something
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: that happens, like I can't think of any pirate that
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: lives longer than the end of forty which is usually
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: in the story.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And maybe him pirate in thirty A.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: In that case, Oh, there was some pirate I was
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: reading about. No, I think he was one of the
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: guys you were potentially going to talk about John.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, John Avery or I think Henry John Avery.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: Went by a bunch of ultimately Avery and he was
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: another one of these people that he pulled off some
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: insane attack where he made the equivalent of several hundred
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: million dollar on this one attack on several ships and
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: then just did the retirement thing and just kind of
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: checked out and got out of there. He apparently died
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: like a year later. Because but but you know, but
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: just this concept that you could actually hit the jackpot. Yeah,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: you could hit the jackpot and then be done and
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: then live for that long with whatever that wealth brings you.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Well to jump in here.
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, this is kind of similar to like like
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: what we're talking about with Charles Vain about how it
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: wasn't really like obviously the money and stuff was important,
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: but like there was more going on there. I do
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: feel like when we think about pirates, we obviously think
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: about like the nasthaal pirates, there was a lot more
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: going on there, you know, free themselves from the privateer.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Life, the conscription stuff like that.
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: Maybe it is more common than in other examples where
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: you know, it is more like in your case, like
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: almost a heist. I'm pulling a heist, you know, and
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: this one is like, you know, she inherited an empire
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: and she's like, you.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Know what, I'm going to retire? Why not?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't think these guys in Nassau had
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: a retirement plan. I think there was. We're thinking right
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: now a lot.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: We're just desperate to escape slavery.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: Yes, oh man, that's such an important factor. When she retired,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: did that empire continue on without her?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, But it's similar to It's similar to how
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the Mongol Empire began to splinter after the death of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Jengus Khan. So when they didn't have that leader and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: other people were getting offered amnesty as well, right, they
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: were trying to avoid the long brutal arm of the law.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: This is this is what Max, I think you would
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: like to see an anime of right of Chang's widow
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: on the high Seas. For now, you're going to have
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to settle for the powerful mistress Ching one of the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: nine Pirate lords and the Pirates of the Caribbean. I mean,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: we want to keep going. We got one more female
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Chinese pirate. This is much more recent too. Yeah, okay,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So nicknames are everybody loves a cool nickname. I'm addicted
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: to nicknames. Uh. One of the favorites we found our
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: research for this series is Huang two Guns Bomb.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: That's nickname both.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Two guns two guns or mistress two guns or the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: two gun Empress.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: Are we talking like blunderbuss or are we talking.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: This is way more recent? The CIA is involved in this.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay. She is born to a peasant family
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: near Shanghai, and she is a criminal from the jump.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: You know, like we said, babies can't be born pirates,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: but if babies can be born criminals, this is kind
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: of our our culprit or, this is our suspect. She
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: became the leader of a local gang that was already
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: raiding coastal areas called Xiangshu and Shixiang, and she got
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: captured by the police. She was all to escape execution.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: But this is occurring during the outbreak of what we
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: call the Second Sino Japanese War, which also doesn't get
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: talked about too often in a lot of textbooks, at
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: least here in the States. I have no idea of
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven to nineteen forty five. So this is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: happening during World War two. Whoa longer than World War two? Yeah,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: that's how recent it is. So because of this war,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: she gets an opportunity to expand the brand. She says, look,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a bandit. I'm a pirate, I'm a criminal. But
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the nationalist military is recruiting people just like me because
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: we're good at violence. So imagine if the US Army
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: at some point said, hey, instead of just conscripting kids
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: out of high school, check out the prisons. That's kind
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of all.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: That happens inmates run the asylum. Anybody killer, Mike.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We got to get over to Bankhead Seafood.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: You guys, I don't know about Bankhead.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: See he co owns with t I. Okay, so together
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: we figured it out. He got their guys as we
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: did it. Yeah, let's we'll just we'll hit up bike
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and go hang out with them. I think at the seafood.
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: Spot Killer, t I Pain. That's the way to do it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: So it's like all three.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: There we go. Yes, it took me a second. Now
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: she is commanding people qualify as troops, and they are
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: still doing all their other stuff. They're smuggling, they're doing piracy,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: they're doing illegal trade. And Huong and her followers are
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: recruited by the military to fight against the Japanese invasion.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: But then she becomes a propaganda gold mine. They as
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: they're like Okay, so how do we how do we
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: tell the public that we just are hiring a bunch
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: of criminals. Yeah, and they say, well, we got a rebrand,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: we got to pivot, we got to get some good
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: pr in here, and we are going to make a
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: new personality. Now, we're not going to talk about her past.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: She is a patriotic woman, right, We're going to treat
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: her like a what's that same we used to have.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: This guy's a shark, but he's our shark. They were like,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Quong is.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Talking about connor Burn.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: He's our shark. But as we know, he has not
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: yet been convicted of piracy. Do you want to keep that?
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: I love it?
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll keep the part where I say do we
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: want to keep that?
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: As well?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: The tension in the room rose, But yeah, no pirates
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: in our gig so far. Anyway, the Nationalist government, as
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: we know, in this nationalist Communist war, they retreated to
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: ty wand and then Wong gets into the secret service
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and does guria warfare against the communist forces that are
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: winning the battle. Right, and so, in an effort to
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: appease this shark, the nationalist authorities give Wong land. They
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: give her a garment factory. They give her own factory,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and they give her a bunch of money, and they
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: do everything they can to hander all these things. Other
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: criminals are not getting this stuff, by the way, at all.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: They're just not getting murdered. The reason, guys, that they're
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: kissing her butt so much is because if they don't,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they're certain that she is going to start collaborating with
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the Central Intelligence Agency, who's already been kind of reaching
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: out to them, and be like, hey, you're pretty good
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: at a violence. You don't like communists, we should hang out.
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Geez hi. I know we're just at a grocery store,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: but I'm with the CIA exactly.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like your garment factory. You know, I'm a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I factor in some things myself.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like a really dangerous person that if
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: you could turn them, that would be a very dangerous
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: person to just be operating. And maybe the concept is
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: just I was gonna say, distract. We know, time is
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: the most valuable resource, right If she's got a garment
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: factory to run and a bunch of other stuff to manage, well,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: then you're no longer you know, thinking so much on
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: the daily about all the you know, acts of kind
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: of warfare that you're going to do for a government
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: contract or something.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Kind of like when you have a really energetic kid
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and you think I need to get this one addicted
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: to animal crossing.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: Oh god, don't do that.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Everybody help you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: There is Max is plugged in. So the government also
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: promotes Slong as almost like a Rosie the Riveter figure
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: while they're doing this, So they're giving her fame as well,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: and they're saying, look, not only can women participate in
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: war zone work, but they can do that on top
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: of managing the household. And then people start questioning the narratives.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: So these films come out and these various research pieces
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: come out that say, oh, oh snap, you guys, this
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: thing is a pirate, like a real pirate, Like.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: This is not like some like person who would normally
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: be made up as like oh this patriotic thing, like, no,
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: she's a Pirates are generally not that up. Yeah, and
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: moral and popular.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And so then there was a narrative war.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: They have their they have a screup or two. It's
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: just there are a few. There's some honor among thieves.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what we're talking about earlier, because there is
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: a certain pirate code.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that that may vary depending on the ship, right.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: And don't don't leave your phone on the BJ table.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: And keep your cutlass clean.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, really, especially especially at the BJ table.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: NAC get ready for it. We're being serious here. No,
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: there were very specific rules that governed life aboard these ships,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: and some of them had to do with keeping your
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: your outfits and your your weapons tight.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Oh yeah.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: Personal hygiene was very important on ships. I know, we're
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: gonna off on tangent here about you know, if you're
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: stuck on the ship for a long time. There's many
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: stories I came across about mutinies because the ships think
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: so bad, or the captains things disease.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: You know, one person gets something that's transmissible by air,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: then everybody screwed.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Important question, guys, what's the opposite of scurvy? When you
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: have too much vitamin C?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: You have too much vitamin Uh we're all looking at you. Yeah, okay, fine, yeah,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: it's scrivy questions.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: But last question? Yeah, was the cutlass and Alton Brown
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: multi tool?
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: And was it a cutlass Supreme but like a moltis
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: with olives.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just no, but really could you because you would
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: use your cutlets for the obvious pirrating reasons, right, But
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: it's also a very shark oh yeah, knife potentially.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And rigging and so on.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Maybe or let's say you catch a bunch of fish.
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: Maybe there's some big old fish. I got a cutlass,
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: of course, I'm just wondering.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a great question.
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: Also, it's just referred to as a vitancy overdose. You
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: can't digest the excess.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Water soluble mm hmm. So it's not exactly toxic, but
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: it could lead to I believe some digestion.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Is floating diarrhea of the normal A lot man.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Max with the facts.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: I just noticed Nole's hat and it is fantastic in
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: this environment, and it's got lots of flowers on it
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: is says something about Marcus.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: It's Marcus, the restaurant we went to last night. Actually,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Brandy Ben's a significant other, suggested that I get this hat.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Didn't even notice they were selling them, doubled back, bought
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: the hat, gotten many compliments on it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: Since almost as cool as Ben's ATL hat.
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: That Atl and the ups and Matt I want to
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: count your beautiful hat, which is not a hat, it's
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: just your luscious.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Lots and those sweet, sweet white milky for a compliment,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: Max your shirt, thank you.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Why don't you describe your shirt?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: It is a white cat and the tarot cards, saying
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: the white cat tarot card.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Can I just let down on Matt's pale, white milky thighs?
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, we're going there.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: He's been there for the second time around. Back to
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: the grotto, we shall go.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, back to the grotto.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: So this is weird because it's pirracy, much more recent
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: than we think about when you think about pirates, right,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and we know that this lady was definitely a consummate
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: pirate because she was switching whenever she's joined in different forces.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Was whatever worked for her, But also she became too
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: valuable to these different rival factions for anyone. She just
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: straight up killer because they were thinking, well, what if
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: we can turn her because we know this lady's a turnstile.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: I see what you mean. That would be the most
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: dangerous person. And I do wonder why nobody decided, hey,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: we have to take this person out because there is
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: a potential that even if we think she's working with us,
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: she's not.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And plus the fact that she's becoming a national figure,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: even if controversial. Everybody was recognizing Rosie the Riveter during
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the wartime in the US. People are recognizing her, and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: she's become a heroic figure in Chinese history, often misportrayed, misremembered.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: You'll see all these legends about her that are like
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: similar to George Washington, legends about how good she is
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: at firearms. They called her two guns is what it
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: translates to, because she was known for, at least according
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to the propaganda and survivor's tales, she was known for
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: jumping into ships or into fights with two guns and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: just pop popping off Renalds like Frank Reynolds. Yeah, well
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: he's usually you know, it's weird to me that he
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: usually just has one guy, you know. Anyway, then she
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: started blasting.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: But then yeah, and so we know, just off, I
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: see him.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I love it.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I love Danny And shout out to everybody who uh
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: restarted the rumhm joke. I posted a picture of us
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: visiting Flamingo's rumhands.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Simpsons, is that always funny?
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you closed a picture of us here. Yeah, yeah, okay,
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: I need to sorry.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Oh my girlfriend made me do it, but promotion beforehand,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: I was not ault.
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: I told him I'm welcome to do it, but he
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: cannot tag my Instagram because no one's allowed to have
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: my Instagram.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Oh it's just for tattoos.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: That's for tattoos.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Is afoot. And so we know that people have still
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: gone back to Madam two Guns over and over to
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: embellish her story to try to figure out what the
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: truth of it is. We know there are there's plenty
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of documentation of her violence and fighting Japanese forces, but
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: we still don't know exactly how she pulled all of
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: this off because they were they had military training, and
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: her guys were just you know, criminals.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: Weird. Yeah, and then it couldn't be a school of
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: the America's situation that's on the other side of the world.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I know, man, there's there's so much more to get
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: to about that character. But I think one of the
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: most important parts of this here is that she literally
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: became multiple things across her life that were in direct
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: opposition to one another, and then she became I don't
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: know if we should call her a national hero but
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, America has its own problems
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: with its national heroes. She ultimately does turn down the
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: offer from the CIA because they do go after a
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: hard and then.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: It wouldn't hold on. She even if she accepted the
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: offer from the CIA, she would have officially turned down
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: the offer from the CIA.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Ding ding ding, Well done, Matt. And she after she
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: turned down that offer, she started to shift away from
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: piracy or what they were calling military operator or maritime operations. Uh.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And she becomes more active in the socialist government. She
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: was going to She did get in trouble a couple
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: of times because she kept trying to get Colonel Kurtz
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: about stuff and planning her own unsanctioned operations. You know,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you just get a taste for it, Okay, so maybe
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he got it.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: I feel like they got her, dude. If she if
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: she started embedding herself more into the government, getting more
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: involved in the socialist government, and then she's really paranoid
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: about stuff all of a sudden, come on.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And then she also started acting later in life, yea,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: in propagation films. Yeah, and in Taiwan. She ultimately dies
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: on May fourth, nineteen eighty two.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So piracy is much closer than it looks in the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: rear view mirror. And when she dies, the legend waxes
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and waynes. But she's still remembered as a legendary pirate leader,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and depending on how the geopolitical winds blow in that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: part of the world, they still bring her out as
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: a propaganda tool every now and then, and this is
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: one of those times. Is another moment.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: Do you know if she has a like a family,
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: a legacy and that kind of thing that continues on
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: I would be interested in.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they have surviving descendants. Her grandson is a
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: guy named Shay Wick like John Wick. Yeah, and he
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: went to a ceremony in Shanghai as recently on twenty fourteen, Wow,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the anniversary the Nanjing massacre. So the history repeats, Man,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: still so baffling. We hope it's We hope it's interesting
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: to all our fellow ridiculous historians to learn that, despite
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the rampant misogyny of a lot of piracy, the world's
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: best pirate was a woman, and some of the world's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: most recent pirates probably worked for the CIA.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: Wow, I'm not going to look at the ocean the
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: same After we leave this incredible studio.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Man, we are it. Seriously, We're not blowing rainbows, folks.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: This is a great spot, and this is a very
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: nice studio, very.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Cool, Our lovely flamingo guides walked by just a man. Yes,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: come on the podcast.
• 40:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, we all hung out flamingos and they smell very nice.
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: Do not think that was the thing I was gonna
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: find out.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: I know it was part of the tour. The smelling.
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: Let's clarify though, there is a smell to flamment inclosures.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: If you've been to a zoo, yeah, it is not
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: the flamingo that you are smelling with that smell. When
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: you go up to a flamingo as we did and
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: you smell their feathers, they smell.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Incredible fresh and clean. Yeah, very fresh.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: And we can't thank you enough for tuning in, folks.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: We can't thank the good people at Baja More enough
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: for having us, but we'll try. Thank you so much,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Baja Seriously, nice one, thank you, nice, seriously, cheers.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Me, thank you.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: Got just say one thing I love about this place,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: and I haven't been too many I haven't been to
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: many resorts of this size, and just how opulent and incredibly.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: There's just so much cool stuff here. What they do
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: with water here on this resort is awesome. We receive
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: these metal bottles that I'm looking I'm looking around at
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: people walking around land. Everybody seems to have them. And
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: instead of giving everybody bottled water in places or having
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: that sailing a bunch of places, you just go and
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: you refill your metal water bottle.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like such a great idea.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The water features also, speaking of water, are amazing.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: There's fire on the water and also the grotto and
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: also the grotto. We've got We've got so much more
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: to get to, folks. We are going to have more
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: pirate stories in the future. We're gonna farm them out
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: because I think twenty twenty six is going to be
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: a pirate phase for us. Maybe, yeah or maybe. Thank
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you so much to our super producer mister Max Williams,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams who composed this bang in track.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: And thanks very much to our returning guest mister Matt Frederick. Matt,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: you got to come back on the show.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: I thank you as well. Matt.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I'll pay you well, you know kind of.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Oh and who else.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Do we need to if you don't come back. I'll
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: hit you with me cutless, no slice, slice slice, Oh gosh,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: who else? Chris Frosciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland quist or A J. Bahamas Jacobs, Yeah, the Puzzler,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: he might be here. I'm actually here in a hammock.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: A big thanks to doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance, the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: rude Dudes a ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: will love them and no thanks to you.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: Hey, thanks to you as well. Buddy. We'll see you
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: favorite shows