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Body Bags The Podcast Investigating Death Hosted By Joseph Scott Morgan · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The police to be is ero dot net a r
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  Speaker 1: r OEt net, twenty different podcasts to choose from, one
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  Speaker 1: of them unplugged and totally uncut. This is where all
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  Speaker 1: It's unplugged and totally uncut. Only on ero dot net
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  Speaker 1: a r r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration, Joseph,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I got to ask you right here from the very
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  Speaker 1: beginning because you and I we tend to walk a
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  Speaker 1: path that a lot of people like to run away from.
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  Speaker 1: How many people are walking with you today, because there's
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  Speaker 1: no way that you're walking alone. You've got spirit guides
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  Speaker 1: and keepers that are guiding you at all times. You
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  Speaker 1: have to be able to feel that other side calling
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  Speaker 1: out to you and pulling you in.
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  Speaker 2: I do do in the sense that death took a
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  Speaker 2: toll on my life because of the world that I
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  Speaker 2: inhabited for so many years, seeing those things that most
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  Speaker 2: people can't even bear to see, that they want to
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  Speaker 2: look away away from, and I had to find my
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  Speaker 2: spiritual center. And for me, it came down to me personally.
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  Speaker 2: Going to mass I turned my back for a long
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  Speaker 2: long time. And I can feel that now because and
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  Speaker 2: here here's the thing is that you know, it's kind
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  Speaker 2: of trite. You know. You hear people say we speak
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  Speaker 2: for those that can no longer speak for themselves. You
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  Speaker 2: hear that all the time. It's almost rote. But when
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  Speaker 2: you're actually with with individuals that are deceased, they're lying
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  Speaker 2: before you. You have no answers, you have no answers
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  Speaker 2: for families, you suddenly begin to appreciate that you're you're
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  Speaker 2: on another level at that point in time. And so
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  Speaker 2: that that's how it's that's how it's kind of put
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  Speaker 2: its hooks into me here.
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  Speaker 1: So interesting that you know, the people do say that
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  Speaker 1: they don't speak when when they've transitioned, and I have
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  Speaker 1: to argue because I mean, it's like my mother's ashes
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  Speaker 1: and my brother's ashes are with me even as we speak.
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  Speaker 1: I swear to the Holy Bible. But they speak with
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  Speaker 1: me every single day inside the studio. I am not alone,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm more fulfilled with them being in here.
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  Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, and we must honor the dead,
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  Speaker 2: and at I don't care. And here's the thing is
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  Speaker 2: that I get on my soapbox here you know, the
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  Speaker 2: dead are the least among us, okay, and they're soon forgotten.
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  Speaker 2: First off, people don't like to talk about death, and
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  Speaker 2: I can understand that. But the thing about it is
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  Speaker 2: there are those that have passed on and they've passed
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  Speaker 2: on in all manner, all manner of ways that are
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  Speaker 2: out there, and for us that work as medical legal
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: death investigators, it's not like being a police officer. We're
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  Speaker 2: actually there on all manners of death and we see
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  Speaker 2: we see the tragedy, we see the triumph. Sometime, you know,
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  Speaker 2: when you think about somebody that has been suffering for
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  Speaker 2: a long long time and suddenly they have passed on,
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  Speaker 2: they've almost been released into you know, into this fere
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  Speaker 2: or piece that they're going into, I have to believe that.
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  Speaker 2: I have to hang on to that, and so yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it's important to keep to keep our loved ones close
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  Speaker 2: to us. I align with you on that. My son's
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  Speaker 2: remains are here with me at home as a matter
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  Speaker 2: of fact. So yeah, yeah, it's something that I'm always
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  Speaker 2: mindful of. Eric.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting about your podcast and I
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  Speaker 1: love this about it, and if I'm wrong, please correct me.
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  Speaker 1: It's almost like you've entered a world where everybody else
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  Speaker 1: said this is the end, but yet in your heart
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  Speaker 1: you say, no, this is the first step of a
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  Speaker 1: brand new beginning. As you go into investigating things. I
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  Speaker 1: see you as a pioneer because you don't know what's
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  Speaker 1: on the other side of that mountain, but you're going
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: to look You're not You're going to face the chariot. Basically, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you have to.
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  Speaker 2: You have to. I don't know, I'm not trying to
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  Speaker 2: sound ham handed or anything. You know, you think about
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  Speaker 2: you know, they talk about firefighters whom I just absolutely love.
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  Speaker 2: They've helped me for years and years. They're the ones
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  Speaker 2: running into the building when everybody else is running out.
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  Speaker 2: People flee from death. I have always embraced it to
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  Speaker 2: try to and I had to do this early on
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  Speaker 2: in my career. I started out when I was only
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  Speaker 2: twenty arrow working in New Orleans with a corner and
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  Speaker 2: then after that in Atlanta where I was the senior
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  Speaker 2: investigator with a medical examiner. So with that story behind me,
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  Speaker 2: I saw death day in and day out, and you listen,
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  Speaker 2: it will drive and it did to me to a
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  Speaker 2: certain degree. It will drive you to madness if you
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  Speaker 2: just focus merely on the horror that you're seeing before
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  Speaker 2: you have to believe that there is something beyond that
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  Speaker 2: that you can hold onto and that you can tell
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  Speaker 2: their stories. It's not just the stories of the living.
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  Speaker 2: It is the stories of the dead, you know, because
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  Speaker 2: we all have value. We all have value even in death,
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  Speaker 2: and everybody has a story that should be told. And
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  Speaker 2: that's what I have purposed to do with my career,
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  Speaker 2: my life.
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  Speaker 1: Do you have to set up rules and let me
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  Speaker 1: explain the reason behind that is because and I'm in
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  Speaker 1: this forest, or when I go into areas where I
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  Speaker 1: know there has been a transition. The thing is is
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  Speaker 1: I say, you know what the rules are. You cannot
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  Speaker 1: bring damage, but you can teach me. You cannot bring sadness,
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  Speaker 1: but we can learn to make other people happy. Do
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  Speaker 1: you come with other rules, because they will they'll bite you, dude,
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  Speaker 1: and you're gonna be carrying a bad ghost with you.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. You know what's really impacted me the
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  Speaker 2: most arrow from me, I think, is this idea contrary
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  Speaker 2: to what you see on television. When you begin to
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  Speaker 2: think about you've got some loan officer that walks up
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  Speaker 2: to the door, knocks on the door and tells the family,
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  Speaker 2: delivers the news. That's a very delicate thing, okay, And
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  Speaker 2: in my world, we're the ones, the medical legal death investigators.
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  Speaker 2: We're actually the ones that actually go out and make notifications.
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  Speaker 2: I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them in person,
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  Speaker 2: and that's a bridge that we have to cross and
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  Speaker 2: showing respect to the dead. Can you imagine if the
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  Speaker 2: dead are observing, how you're going to treat their family
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  Speaker 2: with this news? And it is and I have just
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  Speaker 2: it's almost akin to I'm trying to describe this to
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  Speaker 2: young police officers and other people, nurses and people that
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: go into into you know, caregiving and public safety. It's
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  Speaker 2: almost akin to pulling a pin on grenade and throwing it,
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  Speaker 2: throwing it into a room, shutting the door behind you.
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  Speaker 2: Because this person has never seen you before. They and
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  Speaker 2: you just devastate their lives. At that moment, their life
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  Speaker 2: changes forever and ever. So you have to be very kind,
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  Speaker 2: you have to be very mindful and very gentle.
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  Speaker 1: It's such an amazing storyline and I want people. I
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  Speaker 1: wish people could have the open heart that so many
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  Speaker 1: of us have when we go in and we listen
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  Speaker 1: to the podcast Body Bags, because I'm going in there
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  Speaker 1: as a student, dude, I swear to God, I'm a student,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm learning so much from what you're doing, because
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  Speaker 1: it's almost like you've been where people are going. But
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  Speaker 1: we have to understand so that there can be peace
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  Speaker 1: in that moment of question. Am I wrong in asking
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  Speaker 1: this question?
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  Speaker 2: No? No, not at all, because it's it's you're walking
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  Speaker 2: on the sacred ground, yes, And you know, and in
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  Speaker 2: the world era that we live in, and this is
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  Speaker 2: wrote everything's disposable, everything's instantaneous. We're talking about eternity here,
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  Speaker 2: all right, And it's that's hard for for the for
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  Speaker 2: humans to comprehend, you know, infinity is hard to comprehend.
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  Speaker 2: But when you see these these lives having been lived
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  Speaker 2: in this space and then they end tragically or maybe
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  Speaker 2: they pass peacefully. This either way, when you're passing on
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  Speaker 2: to the other side, this is a world that we're
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  Speaker 2: inhabiting along with them, and we're given we're given the
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  Speaker 2: honor of bearing witness to the life having been lived.
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  Speaker 2: And then you know, those bigger questions what happens with them?
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  Speaker 2: Beyond that, I don't have any control over that. All
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  Speaker 2: I have before me is the shell that is left behind,
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  Speaker 2: and to try to do the best that I can
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  Speaker 2: to interpret so that I can tell others what happened
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  Speaker 2: to this individual and give them a little insight into
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  Speaker 2: their lives.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think they're gone, and this is the artist
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  Speaker 1: coming out in me. But I've varied three writing instruments
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  Speaker 1: next to those who have transitioned, and they all have
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  Speaker 1: different disciplines. In other words, this one's going to be
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  Speaker 1: in the ground, beneath the soil for a certain amount
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  Speaker 1: of time because I want them to speak through that
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  Speaker 1: writing instrument and come back and end up on my pages.
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  Speaker 1: I truly believe you're right. Eternity to me means they
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  Speaker 1: still have a voice.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. They do. And it's interesting. You know,
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  Speaker 2: I'm a college professor now and I teach a class,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm a forensics professor, and so when I when
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  Speaker 2: I teach this class it's called Klan and Burials, I
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  Speaker 2: talk to kids about, you know, what does a regular
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  Speaker 2: grave look like? This is what a perpetrator would do
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  Speaker 2: from a forensic standpoint, to try to dispose of the remains.
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  Speaker 2: But you know how we start that class ere I
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  Speaker 2: take them to our local cemetery, and most kids have
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  Speaker 2: never walked through a cemetery, And to me, cemeteries are
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  Speaker 2: places of peace, all right, and I love to walk
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  Speaker 2: through there. And I tell them, listen, this is your assignment.
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  Speaker 2: You have to be respectful. We're not going to walk
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  Speaker 2: trample on people's graves. We're not going to do that
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  Speaker 2: sort of thing. I want you to observe what you're
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  Speaker 2: seeing and kind of live in that moment and look
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  Speaker 2: at each headstone. What remembrance has the family left behind
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  Speaker 2: for this loved one that you know generations and generations
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  Speaker 2: that have passed now, but they're here and in this
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  Speaker 2: sacred area that we inhabit now along with them. What
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  Speaker 2: does the stone tell you about this individual? Is there
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  Speaker 2: something we can drive here as far as a biography
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  Speaker 2: goes relative to this subject When you get down to
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  Speaker 2: it and you begin to understand that. In this class
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  Speaker 2: in particular that I teach, you begin to understand sacred
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  Speaker 2: relative to the job that you're going to be tasked
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  Speaker 2: with when you get out into the real world. It's
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: not just the nuts and bolts of forensics, which is very,
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  Speaker 2: very important and I've spent a life doing it, but
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  Speaker 2: I've kind of moved on to another plane now in
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  Speaker 2: my life where I'm trying to pass it on to
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  Speaker 2: the next generation so they understand the sacred nature of
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  Speaker 2: all of this era.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, please do not move. There's more with Joseph Scott
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Morgan coming up next the name of the podcast body Bags.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: We are back with Joseph Scott Morgan. I grew up
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: in Billings and Bozeman, Montana, and my grandmother was always
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  Speaker 1: associated with the Doll family, who were Yeah the place
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: where they that's where the mortuary was. And so I
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: grew up with all of that around me. Did I
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  Speaker 1: fear it? I didn't, And that's what scared me that
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  Speaker 1: I did not fear it. Many people are like that,
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  Speaker 1: They say, I know that it's there, but I don't
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  Speaker 1: know why that I'm here and I'm not afraid of it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me tell you a quick little aside. The
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: first date I ever went on with my wife was
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: a blind date. And we're sitting across each other from
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  Speaker 2: each other in this pizza parlor in Atlanta and just
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: kicking back and chatting, you know, like you're doing on
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: first date. And she's school what was the school teacher's
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  Speaker 2: retired now she looks at me and says, now, explain
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: to me what you do for a living. And then
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I begin to explain to her, and then she says
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: to me, she says, you could take this one or
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: two ways. Dude. She looks at me and says, you know,
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  Speaker 2: I never thought about death until I met you. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: And you know, she can look at me and you
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  Speaker 2: know with this face I've been saddled with and say,
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  Speaker 2: oh my lord, you know the grim reacher are sitting
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: across the table from me. Or you can take it
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: from the perspective of she's she's everyday people, she's a
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: school teacher. She doesn't have time to sit around and
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: think about the dead, or she's fled from it because
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: no one wants to think about the dead. But yet
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  Speaker 2: for us, we inhabit that space day in and day out.
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  Speaker 2: It never stops. It doesn't matter what holiday there is,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how bad the weather is, none of
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  Speaker 2: it met, no matters. The dead just keep coming day
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: after day after day after day. And you know, you
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: begin to think, and you know what was really wild
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: with my career era is that when I worked in Atlanta,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: we were right at the backside of the large, the
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: large public hospital that was there in downtown Atlanta, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, I couldn't help but think. You know, here
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  Speaker 2: I'm standing over the dead at the Medical Examiner's office,
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  Speaker 2: and just across the street there are new lives coming
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: into this world. And it's this weird juxtaposition, you know
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: that you you know, and I think that you can
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: only have that moment if you're in the field. It's
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: just a it's a weird space to have it many times.
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  Speaker 1: How can you not sit there and think about what
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the Dalai Lama teaches then, because if somebody has transitioned,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: that means somebody's new life has begun. I mean, do
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you ever just sit back and go, oh my god,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that could be the connection right there, and then all
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a brand new future that's coming
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  Speaker 1: out of that seed.
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  Speaker 2: There there is, and it is such a higher plane
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: that that I don't you know, it's it's and obviously
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you're very well studied. I am not. But when I
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: but the things that I observe with my fleshly eyes, right,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: the things that I see here's here's the real thing.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: And this is kind of a beautiful instance when I
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: see new life coming forth. And I don't just mean
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: like in the physical world. I mean like people that
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  Speaker 2: are healing as a result of maybe a death that
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: has occurred, and they're progressing through that. I have to
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: think that they're being guided along, you know, in some
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: way because of that healing, because so many people have
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: broken hearts out there era, and many people are very
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: much alone, and they don't. I think that if folks
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: understood how broad the scope is it's hard for us
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: to comprehend in our finite mind. If they could understand
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: how broad the scope is relative to all life that
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: surrounds us, and that is a never ending circle that
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: just goes on and on and on and on. It
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: all depends on how you're going to embrace it and
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: or you're going to be a piece with it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Speaking of that piece, I have to ask you, is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that that have you personally been close to a transition?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Only because I know how I reacted on July twenty first,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, when they said I was having
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a heart attack. I really did, honestly go into prayer
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and expect it to be taken home. And I was
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: so fascinated with the fact that I was not afraid,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and I often wonder, you know's my mother afraid? Was
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: my sister afraid? And with people like yourself, I just
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: feel that you've got that key or that needle in
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the head stack that says, hey, look, I felt them.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: They were not afraid. They knew they were going home.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: No, I think, Uh, I don't know how to really
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: say this other than fact I have experienced a similar
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: event for myself personally on multiple times because my brain
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and my spirit was so wrecked by what I bore
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: witness to and I didn't know how to handle it. Yeah,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: and you know I wrote, I wrote my memoir many
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: years ago called Blood Beneath my Feet The Journey of
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: a Southern Death and Investigator. And so when I wrote
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that book, it was a therapeutic memoir. And I just
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: kind of you know the old adage about, you know,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: a writer bleeds on the keyboards, and I did. I
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: just essentially cut my throat on the keyboard and just
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: bullot all over. I wept as I wrote each each line,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and I paid a price for that, I think.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I think, over the course of my career coming to
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: an end in Atlanta, I thought I was having a
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: heart attack for eight months straight, and so but those
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: thoughts would cross my mind, you know, I would think
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: to myself, you arrogant. So and so you stood, you
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: stood over the dead. You've held forth about what happened
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  Speaker 2: to them, and now they're around you, and what's going
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to happen to you? Because the same thing that happened
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: to them can't happen to you. You are not invincible,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and you know you kind of It's weird, man. There
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: are these certain moments in time where you're really adjacent
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: to the flame and you don't feel the heat. But buddy,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: when you're in a circumstance where your life, your life
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: is flashing before your eyes, you just feel that radiant
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: heat off of it. And that's a reality check for
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you that you have to understand you are not the
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: center of the universe, that you're not the biggest thing
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: out there, that it's so big, it's so incredibly big,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and death comes for us all you better be prepared.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: So, but isn't there a side of your heart that
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: sits there and says, when you close your eyes to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: our modern world and reopen them in a trinity, are
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you not going to see the eyes of those that
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: you helped along the way to understand their story because
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you seem so Oh God, Lord, God bless you.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I hope so, yes, I hope so, because that's the
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: one thing confirmatory for me. I want. I want those
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: that I have been in contact with. Wouldn't it be it?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Would you gave me peace? I don't know how to
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: thank you for what you did for my family, you know,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: those little things that you're never quite aware of that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: you're doing at that moment time, Because I look, I've
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: gotten frustrated with families in the past, and I've not
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: been necessarily as respectful that I could have been. But
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: you know, I know that there are other times where
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I have sat for hours with the lady that's eighty
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: five years old and her son that was coming to
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: visit her has died and he's the only only relative
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: that she had, and just sat there and rocked with
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: her for hours as she wept over her son. And
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I had to think, and I thought about this afterwards.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: In that particular case, was he present in that moment?
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Did he see us in the parlor together? Did he
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: see us there as as she cried? And she's telling me,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And I don't know anything about this man that died.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: You know, I went out worth a car accident, but
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: that case kind of stuck with me from that perspective
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: because I knew that she was going to be that
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: she was going to be all alone, you know when
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I exited that door, and I just hope that I
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: could perhaps convey some of the peace that her son
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: would have wanted her to have had at that moment.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Tom, Wow, you have got to come back to this
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: show anytime in the future. You being down there in Atlanta.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I'm up here in Charlotte. We got to get together
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: with one of these old cemeteries, because you know how
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: they are here in the South. They're all buried by
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: cut Zoo right now. But can you imagine if you
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: and I walk through there. We could feel it, dude,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: we could feel it. So please we could please come
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: back to this show anytime in the future.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Eric, God, bless you man. Thank you
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: so much for having me on. You're so kind and generous.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, buddy, you took care. Now