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226: Would You Sever Your Work Life From Your Personal Life? · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 1:33
  Thank you to our sponsor and welcome listeners to another episode of the Customer Service Revolution podcast.
• 1:39
  Imagine going to work every day and remembering nothing about your personal life.
• 1:44
  And then when you leave work, you remember nothing about your job.
• 1:48
  That's the world of the award-winning show, Severance.
• 1:52
  And shockingly, surveys show many people would choose that if they could.
• 1:57
  We're going to unpack that on today's show.
• 1:59
  John.
• 2:00
  You recently wrote a blog about this and it really struck a chord with me.
• 2:04
  The fact that nearly half of Gen Z workers would choose to sever their work and personal selves says a lot about today's workplace.
• 2:12
  Yeah, I mean, I just think that's a horrible indictment of, you know, that how popular and what was it?
• 2:20
  Half of Gen Z's, think it was higher at Gen Z's, one third of overall workers.
• 2:24
  Half of Gen Z's would like to be severed.
• 2:27
  Yeah, you know, this is really a bad state of affairs if I think what
• 2:36
  the majority of people feel about work.
• 2:40
  And I know if I've talked about this, maybe I have, but I love the survey question.
• 2:50
  you know, scale one to five, how excited are you on Friday night at 6 p.m.
• 2:54
  compared to Sunday night at 6 p.m.?
• 2:56
  And I don't think many people would be equal or higher on Sunday night.
• 3:03
  I would guess that most people would be eight to 10 on Friday night if if we're talking about you have a traditional work week and weekend off.
• 3:11
  what do you think people would be on a Sunday night?
• 3:14
  The majority.
• 3:15
  Well, based on what we're learning about severance, I'm going to say people are below half on a Sunday.
• 3:21
  Yeah, I would think a three and really probably what made me think of this is someone we were having a cookout on a Sunday and, uh, you know, it was getting, uh, towards the end
• 3:32
  and five o'clock, five 30.
• 3:34
  And they were like, they said it, it starts to hit them and set in and they get like sick to their stomach that they have to, you know, they have to go to work on Monday morning.
• 3:45
  And I'm like, Oh my God.
• 3:47
  Yeah.
• 3:48
  that's one thing if you, you know, if you spend time working over the weekend, you don't.
• 3:52
  Yeah, yeah, that's why I email you and slack you stuff all weekend so you never have that disconnect.
• 3:59
  So in the show, Severance, they term them innies and outies.
• 4:04
  So innie being, I have, I haven't seen the new seasons, but I saw the first one.
• 4:12
  I it's great.
• 4:13
  tried to watch a couple episodes and I know you, but I mean people swear by it.
• 4:18
  What's your take of watching it?
• 4:21
  Um, well, so as it relates to real life, I think, I can understand why some people might want to, sever their personal and professional lives, not, not interconnect them.
• 4:33
  I, myself, I know I like to keep things separate.
• 4:37
  I don't like my personal life being part of my, professional life more than
• 4:43
  I don't mind my professional life being part of my personal life though.
• 4:46
  Does that make sense?
• 4:47
  Maybe?
• 4:48
  Say more.
• 4:50
  You don't bring your personal life to work and blab and, know, Ken was a jerk to you.
• 4:56
  Ken's never a jerk to you, but if he was, you wouldn't tell any.
• 4:59
  No.
• 5:00
  No, just don't think it, I don't know.
• 5:02
  I guess I'm from the old generation where it just doesn't belong.
• 5:04
  Like you don't come to work and talk about, you come to work, you get yourself done.
• 5:09
  And then you go home.
• 5:10
  When you've been coming outing.
• 5:13
  No, I don't think that's...
• 5:14
  Like, what are they saying?
• 5:15
  That it's so hard to, you hate your job that you just don't want to think about when you go home?
• 5:21
  And you need to be so focused on your work you can't think about your personal life?
• 5:26
  What is the concept?
• 5:28
  I don't know, purpose of being an innie outie is.
• 5:31
  My understanding was that this particular character had things going on at home that were not good.
• 5:38
  So when he got to work, was healthy that he didn't remember them.
• 5:41
  But the work they were doing, nobody was really sure what the work was.
• 5:45
  Why am I counting these pieces?
• 5:47
  Why am I putting these numbers in?
• 5:49
  They just went and did it.
• 5:50
  There weren't questions.
• 5:52
  No, there was zero, it seemed zero purpose.
• 5:55
  So, Savanta did this research that they came up with 35 % of respondents said they'd undergo a medical procedure to disconnect their work memories from their personal lives.
• 6:06
  And then the CEO and co-founder of Unmine, Dr.
• 6:12
  Nick Taylor said of the findings, this research is a stark reminder of the stress and pressure people face today.
• 6:19
  No one should feel the need to completely forget about their work lives just to cope.
• 6:24
  rather than employees feeling the need, they need to disconnect entirely from work to protect their mental health.
• 6:31
  Leaders should build cultures where people feel able to bring their whole selves to work without feeling overwhelmed or burnout.
• 6:39
  How do you feel about that?
• 6:40
  I agree, I agree.
• 6:42
  I think it's, I take it more as a negative indictment on how people feel about work and they wanna leave it at work and it's stressful and you know, all the...
• 6:53
  would imagine there are families that would like family members to sever that when they come home.
• 6:59
  Yeah, yeah, venting and, I, you know, maybe you've been that person or you've been with a person that just hated their job and that sucks.
• 7:11
  That sucks.
• 7:11
  You know,
• 7:12
  all had those days at least, no?
• 7:14
  The closest experience I had when I worked at UPS, great job, I, the time, said in 29 more years, three months and two days, I could retire and I wanted to grow old as fast as I
• 7:26
  could.
• 7:26
  And that's depressing.
• 7:28
  That's really depressing to just want your life to go by as quickly as it can, because you hate what you do.
• 7:34
  that it's sad.
• 7:35
  Yeah, so why do think so many people can relate to this idea?
• 7:40
  What is it about work these days?
• 7:43
  Or has it always been that way?
• 7:44
  I, you know, I probably think it's always been.
• 7:47
  There's a lot of statistics in my the latest book, Employee Experience Revolution, the Employee Experience Revolution.
• 7:54
  And one of it was a surprising what makes a survey done by Pew Research, what makes a fulfilling life.
• 8:01
  And to my shock, work and career was number one.
• 8:04
  more so than marriage and kids and all that.
• 8:08
  I don't, some, yeah, sometimes that's, that could be a higher priority when you don't have it.
• 8:15
  You know I mean?
• 8:16
  Like, I don't know, if you're missing something, then you rate it higher because you're not getting it versus taking it for granted.
• 8:23
  But I just think there's too many dead end jobs, dead end companies and bosses, not leaders.
• 8:30
  who are just there to make sure you're doing your job and being productive and efficient and profitable and not inspiring you to do anything more or be anything more.
• 8:41
  That's my take.
• 8:43
  Well, in reality, how many people do you think actually have a work self or a work persona and a real self?
• 8:51
  No, because I didn't, I never knew there was a difference.
• 8:54
  Like, you know, and it might be, you know, I hate giving my example because I have a, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, so obviously going to be more bought into my company and think
• 9:03
  about 24 seven, even when I'm at my kids activities and, and, and, uh self, but, I'm the one that loves my Friday night and so excited, but love.
• 9:15
  Sunday night and can't wait to get after it come Monday morning.
• 9:19
  So I don't know.
• 9:20
  I didn't realize, like when you asked that question, I thought that's a strange question because I didn't think there was people had two different personas.
• 9:27
  Do they?
• 9:28
  Do you think they do?
• 9:29
  think so.
• 9:30
  I think there's some people who when they're at work maybe their professional self and yeah, I think so.
• 9:37
  that's okay!
• 9:38
  That's totally okay for you cut loose on your free time as long as you're not at a Coldplay concert or on a Jumbotron of anything.
• 9:47
  You know, have at it if it's legal.
• 9:49
  But I don't know if that...
• 9:51
  okay that they're not maybe authentic when they're at work?
• 9:55
  If your true self is a little more wild, is it okay that you're not?
• 10:03
  Yeah.
• 10:03
  got to be a little bit more quiet.
• 10:05
  You now you're not yelling.
• 10:06
  I think from what you're describing, that's totally okay that you're here to do a job and you got to be a little bit more professional and you're not using, you know, hey dude and,
• 10:17
  you know, can you believe?
• 10:19
  political landscape or whatever that, I think that's, there's no place for that in a professional environment.
• 10:26
  But, you know, around the fire pit or bar, you can do what you want.
• 10:31
  It's more that is, are you stressed at the bar, picnic?
• 10:36
  you know, kids activity and you're not your best version of yourself because you're so stressed about work.
• 10:42
  You hate it.
• 10:43
  You want to grow old as fast as you can.
• 10:46
  And you know, you're not the best version yourself to your significant other, your kids.
• 10:51
  And they, like you said, you know, want you to quit your job because they're sick of hearing about it.
• 10:56
  It's hard for people.
• 10:58
  I took Severance is that it's that, and maybe I have it wrong.
• 11:01
  to switch off when they're outside of work.
• 11:04
  They still have work on their mind.
• 11:06
  So what can leaders do differently to help their people sever or detach without losing productivity?
• 11:14
  Well, so, you know, it's a couple of things.
• 11:17
  First, I think we got to be better leaders and give, I think we have a purpose void going on in today's world where we're not connecting people's jobs to the greater good.
• 11:30
  Give an example of Metronix, number one,
• 11:33
  heart valve manufacturer in the world.
• 11:36
  So if you work for Medtronics, you may work in a factory assembly line putting pieces and parts together that get put in a box and shipped off to a hospital.
• 11:48
  And I'm at an event on Friday night and you ask me what I do.
• 11:52
  work on an assembly line, I work in a factory, I, you know, and there's nothing.
• 11:56
  What Metronix does, at least annually, is they get their...
• 12:02
  the patients that have metronic parts implanted in them, heart valves, and they do a lot other things.
• 12:09
  And they have a gala where the people in the warehouse and different people get to dress up and meet these people.
• 12:17
  And you might be a metronics employee and you might be talking to me, the patient, and I'm telling you how I didn't think I was gonna make it to my daughter's wedding.
• 12:26
  But because of the attention to detail you have for your job, I was able to walk her down the aisle last month and hopefully have a few more years around.
• 12:36
  That puts a completely different perception and probably a different how you talk about the job you do.
• 12:42
  And I think that's a, know, so.
• 12:45
  So I think we have to build the why and the storytelling and the difference and the impact that sweeping floors can have not only to the end user who's the customer facing employee
• 12:59
  that's selling the product or putting them in.
• 13:02
  So some other things that I've tried to do and I struggle with this, but I know it's a best practice is try not to communicate with your employees over the weekend.
• 13:10
  If they don't, if they're not supposed to work weekends because whether however you communicate with them, if you know Slack is building up and you know, even if you're not,
• 13:17
  if I tell you not to check Slack, even though I might be sending yourself that that's, that's going to weigh on you.
• 13:23
  That's going to have some anxiety.
• 13:25
  You're going to be worried about Monday morning, what you're going to be walking into.
• 13:29
  So ah I think trying to
• 13:32
  avoid and maybe you can put things to not go out until Monday at 9 a.m.
• 13:37
  I think that's a better example than constantly be hitting your employees with stuff away from their working hours.
• 13:45
  I've heard that is a best practice, which I definitely have to get better at.
• 13:49
  But you've had jobs, different jobs, maybe before us, and I'm sure you've had jobs 27 years?
• 13:58
  29.
• 13:59
  29, Jesus.
• 14:00
  That you've been working with me and my different companies.
• 14:04
  And I'm sure I know as you've had stretches where it wasn't your favorite job or time as an employee, what did you do?
• 14:11
  Um,
• 14:11
  So I think we've always been a company that has practiced communication off hours, whether it be Slack or email.
• 14:19
  And I think it was a while before I...
• 14:21
  realize you needed boundaries.
• 14:24
  Yeah.
• 14:24
  And you have to just, you know, as an employee, not look at, you know, everything that comes in.
• 14:31
  I turn my notifications on my phone off after a certain time, because otherwise it will, even if I don't look, I know it's there.
• 14:40
  Yeah.
• 14:40
  And I think as leaders, also have to encourage them to go unplugged, vacations unplugged, whether they take advantage.
• 14:47
  Because I know unplugged isn't just, I don't know if there's one or the other where you can turn your notifications off, but you still want your personal text and social media
• 14:56
  and whatever.
• 14:57
  we have to help.
• 14:59
  Leaders have to help not adding that.
• 15:02
  hidden anxiety that I have so much to come back to, might as well start doing it now to make it easier.
• 15:10
  happens because if, you know, when you're off for a week or more, you don't want stuff piling up either, right?
• 15:18
  There's that.
• 15:18
  You'd like, I'd rather get it and take care of it while I'm gone than have this huge pile waiting for me when I come back.
• 15:27
  So yeah, it's a balance.
• 15:29
  It's hard because I don't think there are a lot of people who...
• 15:33
  work a nine to five and go home and don't have anything until they get back to work the next day.
• 15:40
  I mean, come on, we could work till midnight.
• 15:44
  We could work till midnight and the job is never done, right?
• 15:47
  Because just.
• 15:49
  you're an executive, but I think non-leaders, there's a lot.
• 15:53
  mean, don't think in salon, you know, I don't think the hairdressers, something may be bothering them or thinking about, but I don't think they necessarily have a work to do
• 16:02
  when they get home.
• 16:03
  But it's more the stress from their job and anxiety from their job that...
• 16:07
  have employees and say it's like in the salon or hourly employees who are feeling overwhelmed, what can you as a leader do to prevent them from wanting to have that
• 16:20
  disconnect, from wanting them to sever their work and personal life?
• 16:24
  Well, again, I think the better the culture, the better the leader, the better the culture.
• 16:29
  think the leader needs to realize that one of their primary jobs is to create an environment where people feel part of, know, that they're uh valued, that they have an
• 16:41
  impact and that they have an opportunity to grow.
• 16:45
  But that doesn't mean everyone is going to have
• 16:48
  uh, stresses, not, you know, some bad days where things go wrong or customer, or unfortunately a boss can, you know, be ugly and that's gonna wear on them.
• 17:00
  If it's one offs and anomalies, that's, that's one thing when it's constant, you know,
• 17:05
  That's, I believe, a culture issue unless you're the employee that everywhere you go, you have that.
• 17:11
  And that everyone, you know, there's people that just don't want to work.
• 17:15
  But I think it's a much smaller percent than people make it out to.
• 17:19
  I think this broad stroking that the younger workforce doesn't want to work and are entitled, I don't agree with that at all.
• 17:26
  I think they're great if they're not willing to trade hours for dollars.
• 17:30
  And the currency for them is purpose and it just gets back to, know, if they're a part of something bigger and they see opportunities, you know, in their job.
• 17:42
  And the opportunities could be at that company or the opportunities could be that this is a stepping stone, that the resume builder, I'm fine with either, because not everyone's
• 17:51
  going to, you know, work 30 years and want to retire from your company.
• 17:55
  If someone, you know,
• 17:57
  wants to trade experience for a resume builder for three years, but does a great job.
• 18:03
  I'm totally fine with that.
• 18:05
  but does a great job.
• 18:06
  So we need to make sure you have something in place that lets them know they're doing a great job or they're not doing a great job and some type of accountability for the people.
• 18:17
  Yeah, I was just...
• 18:19
  do you do that?
• 18:19
  So how do you find this, all right, you have this young person who maybe you are a stepping stone for them.
• 18:25
  You want them to have a purpose.
• 18:31
  You want them to be happy there, but you still want high productivity from them.
• 18:35
  How do you find that, get that high productivity out of them without overwhelming them, stressing them?
• 18:42
  having them want to sever.
• 18:44
  Yeah.
• 18:44
  First is I believe there's a lot of people go into a job thinking that this is a temporary transitional job and until something better comes along.
• 18:55
  And I think a lot of great companies teach them that there's potential for a career here.
• 19:00
  And like you started off as a person that did facials and you know, that wouldn't have been enough for you.
• 19:07
  you get bored easy.
• 19:08
  And fortunately for us, we were growing and we had opportunities and you kept on performing well and then growing into a new position and all the way to that you're a part
• 19:20
  owner today.
• 19:21
  And then there's people that this is a temporary transitional job.
• 19:23
  This is just not what they want to do.
• 19:25
  And that's where we got to help them, you know, uh do that.
• 19:29
  And I think it's being honest, I think it's on the interview process of sharing the drawbacks of the industry, the job, the career.
• 19:36
  we don't go home every night hugging each other and singing kuba, kuba, and we don't get, you know, 50 % pay increases every quarter or whatever that is.
• 19:49
  I mean, the realities, a lot of people will put out there, you know, you could make as much as, you know.
• 19:56
  $100,000 at this job.
• 19:57
  That might be the one or two percent.
• 19:59
  So we got to be careful with that, right?
• 20:02
  Like, you know, yeah, I can factually prove that someone on my staff, you know, as a hairdresser makes six figures, but we can't, you know, we have to be careful, you know,
• 20:14
  that everyone doesn't think that's just going to come within the first three years.
• 20:18
  So I know, I just think it's about finding the right people who understand what they're getting into and that there's drawbacks to it.
• 20:25
  But a lot of people, the drawbacks or what some perceive as drawbacks is not a drawback to everyone.
• 20:32
  In our business and the clients, we consult customer experiences, a mandatory huge part of the job.
• 20:39
  There's a lot of people, probably more than 50%, that don't want to do that.
• 20:44
  They just want to answer phones and serve clients in restaurants or coffee shops and not have to remember their favorite drink and do the five E's when they walk in.
• 21:01
  There's other people that's why they want to work at Chick-fil-A or
• 21:07
  or a well-known customer service company.
• 21:10
  So I think it's managing and setting the expectations on the interview process and making sure they know what the 50th date looks like.
• 21:19
  On the first date, I'm opening the door, I'm paying, but what am I like on the 50th date?
• 21:25
  And that goes both ways, right?
• 21:26
  I mean, if someone comes in on an interview late in...
• 21:30
  not dressed appropriately, that's the best they're gonna be.
• 21:33
  Right?
• 21:35
  It's only gonna get worse from there.
• 21:37
  So if you're hiring them, you know, that's on you.
• 21:41
  All right, so that brings about another question.
• 21:44
  You have people that will come to an interview, be their best self, maybe not their true authentic self.
• 21:50
  So, and then once they start, maybe the true self comes out, maybe it doesn't.
• 21:56
  What can leaders do to help people bring their whole selves to work without being afraid?
• 22:03
  Yeah, I mean, I probably say this every time we dabble on this, and I don't think we've done a...
• 22:10
  podcast on the interview questions, but, um, the interview process has, has to be ungameable and where, you don't, you're prepared canned answers.
• 22:20
  You know, I, I'm not asking you, Denise, what are your two biggest drawbacks that, know, I'm going to ask, and you're going to say you're a perfectionist and workaholic, right?
• 22:29
  Cause you know that that's what everyone asks.
• 22:31
  So, when I interviewed,
• 22:33
  And you guys don't like me to interview too often now because I do focus more on the drawback of the job than I do of the upside.
• 22:42
  Because I feel like most people, maybe not in our company, talk about, you know, the one percent that, you know, you could be the next Sandy, Eric or Denise who look at them today
• 22:54
  and they started in the same position.
• 22:56
  You know, but my interview style is like Detective Colombo.
• 23:00
  where I'm like, all right, before we get started, I see that you went to, where'd you go, mentor?
• 23:05
  You went to Mennon, right?
• 23:07
  High school?
• 23:07
  Yeah.
• 23:08
  I see that you went to mentor, you know, and I see that you played volleyball.
• 23:12
  You know, what was that like?
• 23:13
  You know, and sometimes they'll say, I only played volleyball till I was a sophomore because the coach's favorite, you know, he started the favorite and I was so much better
• 23:22
  than the favorite.
• 23:23
  And they really think this is off the record and that the interview hasn't started.
• 23:27
  Obviously any conversation we have is going to be judged and just take him down rabbit holes to try to get a sense.
• 23:36
  And, you know, not the interview questions are kind of irrelevant of just trying to get you in a conversation and to be chatting like we're having coffee or a beer or whatever
• 23:46
  that looks like.
• 23:46
  That's a good way to build trust with them too though.
• 23:49
  If you're having a conversation, they feel they can, they're safe with you.
• 23:54
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:55
  And then like, you know, the, the Colombo examples, then he slips.
• 23:58
  If you're not old enough to remember detective Colombo, that's probably why I, I, I relate so well to him.
• 24:05
  He's a, he comes across as a bumbling idiot and he's investigating a murder and you're the prime suspect, but he seems so clueless and off that you let your guard down because
• 24:18
  you're like, you actually feel bad for this guy that he
• 24:21
  doesn't even think that you could, he's just asking irrelevant questions, then you're divulging more than you think, because you let your guard down.
• 24:31
  The article.
• 24:32
  people, I just think there are certain things that can be trained and there's certain things that can't be trained in enthusiasm, positivity, the ability to like people, none
• 24:42
  of that can be trained.
• 24:43
  And so trying to find that in the interview process is really important.
• 24:47
  But we're putting a lot of the onus right now on employees.
• 24:52
  How positive are your leaders?
• 24:54
  are they encouraging and are they giving you grace and instead of coming in to an employee who's always been super productive and good attitude, who hasn't lately, right?
• 25:07
  Who's been struggling, her numbers are down.
• 25:10
  There's two ways to go about that.
• 25:12
  know, geez, I'm writing you up one more quarter of this in a row and we got to let you go versus Denise, everything okay?
• 25:19
  Do you need anything?
• 25:20
  This is so uncharacteristically of you.
• 25:23
  Sound familiar?
• 25:23
  Have we had those conversations?
• 25:25
  Have we had those conversations?
• 25:28
  In the past or do we need to have them?
• 25:30
  We all need those conversations.
• 25:32
  Here I found a quote I was looking for by Tom Peters, the great Tom Peters.
• 25:37
  Leading is the pinnacle of human achievement.
• 25:39
  Your number one task is helping others grow and develop and contribute to their colleagues and communities.
• 25:46
  Your accomplishments, accomplishment list will be measured by those who went on to be wildly successful in large measure because of the time they spent with you.
• 25:56
  Love that.
• 25:56
  That's a good quote.
• 25:57
  Make sure you send me that so we can put it in the show notes.
• 26:00
  We'll also put the interview questions in the show notes, folks.
• 26:03
  So if you don't have a copy of our interview questions yet, you can grab those.
• 26:08
  In your blog, you ended it with, we only have one life.
• 26:11
  How do you convince leaders that employees happiness isn't just a nice to have, but it's actually a business imperative?
• 26:18
  mean, that's, you know, and we have workshops, part of our consulting, a chapter in our book is developing existing and future leaders.
• 26:31
  And that's where we go back to, if it was in the Wall Street Journal or one of the big publications that 82 percent of leaders are accidental managers.
• 26:42
  And you got promoted.
• 26:44
  because the person ahead of you quit and you had the most seniority, but you you may or may not have been leadership quality.
• 26:51
  It'd be worse if you have the leadership potential, but we just threw you in there and we just, you know, totally set you up for failure.
• 27:00
  Worse for the employees if if you weren't a leader and had no leadership ambition or qualities, but we needed a leader.
• 27:07
  Right.
• 27:08
  So I think think
• 27:09
  It's about grooming, selecting people that care about other people.
• 27:16
  And I don't think it should all be about numbers and profitability.
• 27:20
  I think all those come when people feel a genuine connection to
• 27:26
  their job and look forward to coming into work and want to make a difference.
• 27:31
  So I think that has to be a major part of our selection process and...
• 27:36
  grooming and evaluating leaders.
• 27:38
  Can I read this quote?
• 27:39
  I love this quote.
• 27:40
  It's from our book.
• 27:41
  It's often said that our jobs don't define us, but our jobs and careers are a huge part of who we are and a significant amount of time we spend alive.
• 27:50
  Every leader should realize that the work needs to be rewarding in addition to the financial compensation one receives.
• 27:58
  Most of the world's population cannot avoid working.
• 28:01
  during their lifetime.
• 28:02
  Therefore, they must find value in what they do and who they do it for.
• 28:07
  We only have one life to live.
• 28:08
  We do not have a professional life, a personal life.
• 28:11
  It's one life.
• 28:12
  And if we don't like what we do, it'll be hard to live a meaningful life.
• 28:17
  As leaders, we need to build a company that helps employees be proud of the work they do and have an opportunity to live their best lives.
• 28:24
  To some people listening, that may sound hokey and
• 28:28
  And I think other people, gravitate to that.
• 28:30
  And that's the people, both employees and leaders, we need to coach and build and help be successful.
• 28:37
  What difference does it make for a company if employees feel they have purpose?
• 28:42
  What does that do for them?
• 28:44
  What's the ROI?
• 28:45
  So if you do a study or pull up the top 100 companies to work for, mean, they're usually the top customer service companies and they're usually the most profitable companies.
• 29:02
  gets experience on the inside will get experience on the outside.
• 29:06
  I've never studied a world-class customer service company that wasn't world-class to work for and with.
• 29:13
  For top-down, with that it's leaders' responsibility to weed out the negative.
• 29:20
  wrong fit people because, you know, we all have worked with people that brought negativity and drama to work.
• 29:30
  And I don't care how much you like your job, you know, most people don't work in a vacuum.
• 29:34
  And if you got to work next to that and with that all day, it's going to start changing the way you think about your job.
• 29:41
  Or if you want to stay,
• 29:43
  at that company.
• 29:43
  So I always I ask audiences, finish this sentence.
• 29:47
  People don't quit companies, they quit.
• 29:49
  And everyone says leaders, bosses, managers.
• 29:53
  And that is the old saying.
• 29:55
  But I change it to people quit people.
• 29:58
  Yes, they quit bad leaders, but they also quit bad coworkers.
• 30:03
  And it's really important that you keep an environment
• 30:06
  of positive, as, close as you can get a players.
• 30:09
  You're not, if you have a big company or not, always, you know, it's impossible to have nothing but a players.
• 30:14
  but we can't have C and D and I'll always take a better attitude.
• 30:19
  and less talent talent could be taught higher for the heart trained for the part.
• 30:23
  I think those are important loyalty passion.
• 30:25
  think are, are,
• 30:26
  way better than the technical that can be taught.
• 30:29
  is the onus on for the employee to feel they have purpose?
• 30:33
  Is that something they should come to work and look for as an employee?
• 30:37
  Like, how does this job give me purpose?
• 30:40
  Or is that something on leadership to instill in them?
• 30:43
  leadership.
• 30:43
  I think we got to be talking about it.
• 30:45
  I think it starts on the interview process, on your branding, the difference you make, the Medtronic's example to, there's so many really good examples of companies that share what
• 30:59
  the impact they're having that you don't directly see.
• 31:03
  But I think it
• 31:04
  I think purpose is storytelling.
• 31:06
  think storytelling is something that we should be doing daily in just different examples, different stories, different pre-shift huddles, different recognition, top of mind
• 31:16
  awareness.
• 31:17
  John Roberts, and I have nothing to do with it day to day now, they do such a good job of top of mind awareness on their guest experience action statement to be the best
• 31:29
  part best experience and others day and they change it.
• 31:32
  others used to be to be the experience and customers day guest day.
• 31:38
  Then they change it to other because it needs to be with each other, you know, besides teammates and guests.
• 31:45
  All right.
• 31:45
  So that's a great statement, but that could be fluff.
• 31:48
  That could be a bumper sticker.
• 31:49
  That could be a mantra that platitude they talk about, but the way they advertise it,
• 31:56
  the caught you doing something right cards that we started 29 years ago now have been changed to, know, something about to, know, it doesn't say caught you doing something
• 32:07
  right, caught you being the best experience in someone's day.
• 32:11
  And then they write you a letter.
• 32:12
  But like every story, every letter, every email, every example,
• 32:18
  weekly and daily is always they really brand.
• 32:23
  Hey, I want to tell you about how Sarah Marie was the best part of a guest day.
• 32:30
  And here's here's how.
• 32:32
  And I want to tell you how Chris Woege was the best part of a team members day.
• 32:37
  And here's what she did and how.
• 32:39
  And that's just, you know, they do such a good job of the constant recognition of that, that
• 32:47
  I feel like there's it's positive peer pressure that you better step up.
• 32:50
  It becomes contagious.
• 32:52
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:54
  Or you're like, you guys are weird, and you don't wanna be part of it.
• 32:58
  And hopefully that's caught earlier, and we never get to that, but there's people that slip through the cracks.
• 33:06
  and either we didn't do a good enough job.
• 33:08
  articulating what we stand for or they fooled us on the interview, but it doesn't last.
• 33:15
  But that's a horrible thing for both parties.
• 33:18
  Now, whether it's three months, six months, they have to be looking back on the, you know, getting their resume out and looking for a job and we have to be interviewing again.
• 33:26
  That's not good for anyone.
• 33:28
  That's why our interview process is so heavy on, we want to do everything we can to reduce either one of us making a mistake.
• 33:36
  That's why we want you to come in for an observation day, a shadow day.
• 33:40
  and spend as much time as you want, ask anyone anything, that's your best way to find out what we're really like, besides just what the HR person's telling you we're like on the
• 33:52
  interview.
• 33:53
  I love how they changed the card to making others day because employee experience isn't just leader to employee.
• 34:00
  It is employee to employee as well.
• 34:02
  em How do you see employee experience tied to customer experience?
• 34:10
  So what happens to the customer if the employee feels severed at work?
• 34:15
  Yeah, again, you know, what gets experienced on the inside is going to get experienced on the outside and, and, the companies that win top companies to work for in their city or,
• 34:27
  you know, national rankings are always, always top customer service companies.
• 34:33
  So, you know, it has to be in you and your culture of just how you take care, how you take care of your vendors.
• 34:40
  right?
• 34:40
  Instead of squeezing them and stretching them to 45, 60, 90 days, right?
• 34:47
  I you know, I think it's an experience ecosystem of everyone you come in contact with, vendors, team members, obviously clients, guests, patients, tenants, but it's so much
• 35:00
  easier.
• 35:01
  the employees take care of customers the way they're taken care of.
• 35:05
  Expect the employees to go out and deliver on Ford and know their family occupation, recreation, dreams.
• 35:13
  If you do that for them, right, if they get a gift card for being employee of the month or their one year anniversary to Lululemon because you know that's their favorite store
• 35:24
  versus giving everyone a $25
• 35:28
  Amazon card.
• 35:29
  They may not use Amazon or Starbucks or whatever.
• 35:32
  So knowing, there's an example of one company in the employee experience revolution book that either on your interview process or when you get hired and you're doing paperwork,
• 35:46
  what's a $20 indulgence, $20 or less that you love.
• 35:51
  And then you forget that you ever filled that out with all the paperwork.
• 35:55
  And now we know what to give you when you're being recognized for something.
• 36:01
  That's nice.
• 36:02
  Very nice.
• 36:03
  You know, thinking back to severance, and from what I remember about the early part of the show, the main character had an issue in his personal life.
• 36:13
  don't remember.
• 36:14
  I want to say make perhaps his spouse died with something traumatic.
• 36:17
  So severing that allows him to come to work without that weight.
• 36:22
  Baggage, yeah.
• 36:24
  in reality, we know that doesn't happen.
• 36:26
  So when people have things going on in their personal life, is it okay to bring it to work?
• 36:31
  Well, so it depends.
• 36:32
  I think a great culture company leaders can help you be an escape from when you're going through personal struggles.
• 36:43
  If you really like your job and feel fulfilling, that could, that could be great therapy, part of therapy, um, that gives you
• 36:54
  an opportunity to escape from that, forget about it for a few hours, the best you can, and feel rewarding in what you do.
• 37:06
  But, you know, when you're looking at customers who are paying for their experience, not yours, and you have to leave things at the door and not, you know,
• 37:21
  bring it to work and not tell them about the drama you may be having.
• 37:26
  And the drama could be silly.
• 37:28
  You got to do a fight today with your boyfriend, girlfriend, or a flat tire, whatever.
• 37:35
  And you want to tell everyone that you come in contact with, yeah, no, leave it at the door.
• 37:39
  Leave yourself at the door.
• 37:41
  I'm always fine with that.
• 37:42
  If you need a day off, take a day off, but you can't bring it to work.
• 37:46
  And that's not to be cold hearted.
• 37:49
  We'll give you time off.
• 37:51
  We'll write you a check.
• 37:52
  We'll go to therapy with you, but you can't bring it to work.
• 37:56
  mean, that's just, it's just, it's not what employees and, but, I mean, you have best friends and you have therapists and whatever for, for, for that stuff, but it can't be,
• 38:06
  um, brought to the experience that you are required to give to team members and customers.
• 38:14
  That's where the Snow White adage comes in.
• 38:16
  Right?
• 38:16
  Snow White has...
• 38:18
  When I was in the 90s, I studied at the Disney Institute and I got to go underground behind the scenes and Magic Kingdom Snow White.
• 38:26
  saw a cast member was punching and punching out.
• 38:28
  I saw Snow White on break, smoking a cigarette, complaining about some guy she was dating.
• 38:33
  And then she goes back inside and freshens herself up, punches back in, goes upstairs.
• 38:38
  through the bushes and Sheree appears on Magic King of Ground where 15 little five, six and seven year olds come charging at her.
• 38:45
  And she turns into this beautiful angelic princess posing for pictures, signing their pads.
• 38:50
  And you know, those kids were there to see Snow White and that's exactly what she gave them.
• 38:55
  But downstairs on break in the parking lot, she was Susie Smith that had jerked a boyfriend or a dwarf or whatever he was.
• 39:02
  And that's okay, but you have to know.
• 39:05
  what onstage and offstage is.
• 39:07
  Yeah, offstage is a good thing, right?
• 39:09
  I think that back rooms can be important in a place of work, a place where you can take that.
• 39:15
  though.
• 39:16
  If you're just back there venting, you are bringing the morale down and no one wants to go in that back room.
• 39:23
  And that can't be it either.
• 39:25
  Cause that, that back room break room lunch room is an escape for people for the next 30 to 60 minutes to go back out there and be their Snow White.
• 39:35
  And if you're sucking, you know, the energy out of them with your
• 39:39
  drama and your stuff going on.
• 39:42
  I mean, you know, that that's why it needs to be taught and reminded of,
• 39:48
  Yeah, so I'm severing, leaving.
• 39:50
  when it's a regular occurrence.
• 39:53
  So you'll have some people that will occasionally vent about something.
• 39:57
  But when you get the occasional person who's always venting.
• 40:01
  How do you address it?
• 40:02
  Coach, coach, you'll know about it.
• 40:06
  People will bring it up to you.
• 40:08
  They'll tell you so-and-so's really hard to work with.
• 40:13
  And that's why, you know, another, one of my favorite leadership things is, you know, employees are the average of the five, of their five coworkers.
• 40:22
  And as leaders, we're responsible for their, you know, the employees don't get to choose who
• 40:27
  who we surround them with.
• 40:29
  And if you're surrounding them with just anyone and letting bad attitudes stay because we're short staffed, they're gonna gravitate to that and that's your fault, not theirs.
• 40:40
  Have you ever seen someone turn around with that was a negative Nancy and with some coaching become a different person?
• 40:49
  I'm sure I have, you know, that, that you might be better to answer that than I, cause you've led more mass people than I have in a while directly.
• 40:59
  But I always, I always like kick myself because when you do get one that does it, then it gives you the confidence that you could change everyone.
• 41:07
  And then I'll be like that damn Patty.
• 41:10
  you because she did it, she was the example.
• 41:12
  And then you think the next, you you try to save the next 50.
• 41:16
  And it's not that common, I don't think.
• 41:18
  Yeah, I think we've been fortunate.
• 41:21
  And again, because of the hiring process where there haven't been many who have gotten through that were bad apples.
• 41:28
  Yeah.
• 41:28
  Yeah.
• 41:29
  Yeah, but
• 41:30
  the interview questions.
• 41:31
  Again, another push for the interview questions.
• 41:34
  If you need some good interview questions, visit the show notes.
• 41:38
  What else do you have, John?
• 41:39
  How do you want to tie this up?
• 41:40
  That's it.
• 41:41
  That's everything.
• 41:42
  Don't create a culture that people.
• 41:45
  Don't want to be severed from their work life.
• 41:48
  You can can as leaders, we can make their home life a little better if they like what they do and they go home and they're proud of the work they do.
• 41:55
  I think that's that's that that should be the the goal for.
• 41:59
  for leaders instead of just being the most prevalent.
• 42:04
  need to welcome the whole person.
• 42:06
  I wonder if that's why Gen Z is so much lower.
• 42:10
  I think Gen Z is more accepting overall of any generation, saving space and
• 42:17
  with saving space.
• 42:20
  What's that?
• 42:21
  space.
• 42:21
  I'm holding space for you.
• 42:23
  You've ever heard that term?
• 42:24
  Oh, I forgot your baby boomer.
• 42:27
  Right, what's it mean if you're holding space for me?
• 42:29
  You're emotionally holding space.
• 42:32
  Which means if you're having a bad day,
• 42:37
  I'm holding space for you.
• 42:39
  I'm allowing you to be you.
• 42:41
  I'm giving you this space.
• 42:52
  when it comes to emotions and relationships, they probably share more than other generations.
• 43:01
  Yeah, more inclusive.
• 43:02
  absolutely.
• 43:03
  So making space for that in our work arenas.
• 43:06
  They're the future, they're the present.
• 43:09
  think we need a panel of Gen Z's on to interview.
• 43:11
  That'd be Good.
• 43:12
  And listeners, also look to the show notes for a link to the blog on this topic
• 43:24
  subscribe Thanks, John.