Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 339: The Greatest Conservation Win in Decades? with Land Tawney

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Ep. 339: The Greatest Conservation Win in Decades? with Land Tawney · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
0:06
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
0:12
Speaker 1: Mark Ken. You all right, welcome to the Wired to
0:16
Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by on X. Today we
0:19
Speaker 1: are celebrating, my friends. We are celebrating some very good
0:22
Speaker 1: news when it comes to public land and wildlife conservation
0:26
Speaker 1: and hunting and hiking and fishing and just about anything
0:29
Speaker 1: else related to access to the outdoors in America, because
0:33
Speaker 1: a new bill was introduced this week with bipartisan support,
0:37
Speaker 1: called the Great American Outdoors Act, and it is accomplishing
0:41
Speaker 1: several very important things that hunters and anglers and other
0:45
Speaker 1: conservations have been working on for a long time. And
0:48
Speaker 1: it seems knock on wood borrowing some kind of disaster
0:51
Speaker 1: that there is support to pass this thing into law,
0:54
Speaker 1: and this is all happening. It's all happening as far
0:55
Speaker 1: as I can tell, at least, because you guys and
0:58
Speaker 1: a whole lot of other folks across the country have
1:00
Speaker 1: rallied around these causes of public lands and conservation and
1:04
Speaker 1: wild places and made it just plain required, made it
1:08
Speaker 1: necessary for politicians to start paying attention and to start
1:11
Speaker 1: supporting this stuff. Uh, you know, I wrote in my
1:14
Speaker 1: book That Wild Country. Right towards the end, I wrote
1:17
Speaker 1: about the fact that, you know, while there are myriad
1:19
Speaker 1: challenges to conservation and public lands, While these challenges and
1:23
Speaker 1: these attacks are gonna keep coming forever and ever and ever,
1:26
Speaker 1: history has also shown that when Americans come together, regardless
1:30
Speaker 1: of other differences, when we come together, we can protect
1:33
Speaker 1: these places and the animals we care about, and the resources.
1:37
Speaker 1: And that's what's been going on these past few years.
1:40
Speaker 1: It's exactly what I've hoped and prayed would be possible,
1:42
Speaker 1: and it's happening. Cabella Shoppers and ari I Shoppers, Republicans
1:47
Speaker 1: and Democrats, rural and urban folks are all setting aside
1:50
Speaker 1: labels and team colors, and they're coming together to protect
1:53
Speaker 1: our wild places and wild animals. And and I really
1:57
Speaker 1: think that we are We're a part of something right now.
2:00
Speaker 1: There's a moment that I think that what we're seeing
2:03
Speaker 1: here today and over the last year two it's gonna
2:06
Speaker 1: be written about some day in history books, just like
2:08
Speaker 1: I wrote about stuff going on in the early nineteen
2:12
Speaker 1: thirties and forties and then the nineteen sixties and seventies.
2:14
Speaker 1: Someday people are gonna be writing about the late teens
2:17
Speaker 1: and early twenties of how there were all these immense
2:20
Speaker 1: challenges to these places and animals and our environment, and
2:25
Speaker 1: how a bunch of people rallied around him and made
2:28
Speaker 1: a big difference. That's happening right now, and I'm pumped.
2:31
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm really proud, and I'm encouraged. I'm excited
2:35
Speaker 1: about what this community is doing. So that is what
2:38
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today with Lantani of back
2:41
Speaker 1: Country Hunters and Anglers, who's been leading the charge on
2:44
Speaker 1: a lot of these issues that we're gonna cover. So
2:47
Speaker 1: that's the plan. Without much further ado, though, we're gonna
2:50
Speaker 1: take a very quick break to thank our friends at
2:52
Speaker 1: Lacrosse Boots, and then we will get right into it.
2:55
Speaker 1: No pre MBS show today. I just want to talk
2:58
Speaker 1: about this is very exciting to Altman. Now let's get
3:02
Speaker 1: to chatting with land Tawny. All right, I'm excited now
3:06
Speaker 1: to have with me on the line, Land Tawny, welcome
3:10
Speaker 1: back Land. It's good to be back Mark. Like we're
3:14
Speaker 1: just saying before I started recording, I'm excited that we
3:18
Speaker 1: have such a good reason to be chatting today. It's
3:20
Speaker 1: a it's a good moon. The are right now, isn't there?
3:23
Speaker 1: Oh man? It's Uh, I'm I'm ecstatic right now and
3:26
Speaker 1: like glowing. Uh, this is pretty awesome. So so explain
3:33
Speaker 1: to folks why you are so so excited. You just
3:35
Speaker 1: said something to me that, um, that's pretty cool. How
3:40
Speaker 1: you see this fitting into the bigger picture scheme of things? Um?
3:45
Speaker 1: What what level of excitement are we talking about here
3:47
Speaker 1: with with a Great American Outdoors Act? You know? I
3:50
Speaker 1: think that, Um, this is probably I've been doing this
3:54
Speaker 1: kind of work for twenty years, and I would put
3:57
Speaker 1: this at the top like any kind of accomplishment. And
4:01
Speaker 1: I've been a part of and and and there's been
4:03
Speaker 1: you know, lots of wins in those twenty years. Um.
4:07
Speaker 1: But the idea that this, you know, was first passed
4:10
Speaker 1: in four in such a bipartisan fashion. Uh. Last year
4:15
Speaker 1: when it was permanently authorized Land and Water Conservation Fund
4:19
Speaker 1: to eight in the Senate and three sixty three to
4:21
Speaker 1: sixty two in the House, like that was momentum. But
4:24
Speaker 1: we didn't get the money. And so what this is
4:27
Speaker 1: doing is Great American Outdoors Act is doing. That's full
4:31
Speaker 1: and dedicated funding at nine million dollars. And you know,
4:35
Speaker 1: this means that permanently, every single year will have nine
4:40
Speaker 1: million dollars to work on conservation access in this country.
4:44
Speaker 1: And to me, you know, that's the way we we
4:47
Speaker 1: grow this great estate that we already own, right that
4:50
Speaker 1: six hundred forty million acres that you and I and
4:52
Speaker 1: everybody owns listening to this owns. This is the deal
4:56
Speaker 1: on making sure that when we have access to those lands,
4:58
Speaker 1: but also growing that a stay. And so I can't
5:01
Speaker 1: be more excited about this. And I think, you know,
5:03
Speaker 1: the the bipartisan fashions that is going on here, Like
5:06
Speaker 1: I like, Congress doesn't get together and do stuff that
5:10
Speaker 1: much anymore. And this is just it's again like I'm yeah,
5:16
Speaker 1: it's it is. It's relatively unprecedented. For decades and decades,
5:21
Speaker 1: I feel like we haven't seen anything like this other
5:23
Speaker 1: than you know, the progress made last year. Um, we're
5:26
Speaker 1: harkening back to those sixties and seventies kind of achievements
5:30
Speaker 1: back in that, you know, that sort of environmental movement
5:33
Speaker 1: time period. But but I want before we get into that,
5:35
Speaker 1: I gotta rewind the tape just a little bit and
5:37
Speaker 1: make sure we provide the right background for people that
5:40
Speaker 1: are jumping into this lake that aren't familiar. Um, you know,
5:44
Speaker 1: you and I talked last year after the dingle Johnson
5:46
Speaker 1: Neck passed about the l w CF, But I still
5:50
Speaker 1: let's just hammer it out one more time for people
5:52
Speaker 1: that aren't familiar. What does the Land and Water Conservation
5:55
Speaker 1: Fund give us? Like the quick spiel on that, and
5:57
Speaker 1: then can you catch us up to speed on and
5:59
Speaker 1: what have been last year? And then what you kind
6:02
Speaker 1: of just did, I guess, tell us what happens now
6:04
Speaker 1: if this passes, but give us that background really quick
6:07
Speaker 1: so you can sure. Yeah. So back in nineteen sixty four, uh,
6:12
Speaker 1: folks got together. There was starting to be oil and
6:16
Speaker 1: gas development that was happening in the Gulf of Mexico,
6:18
Speaker 1: and Congress got together and they said, you know, we're
6:21
Speaker 1: taken away from one resource. Let's give back from that
6:24
Speaker 1: to other resources. And so that's when the Land and
6:26
Speaker 1: Water Conservation Fund was really established. And back then I
6:31
Speaker 1: think it was like in the Senate. I don't know
6:33
Speaker 1: what the household was, but I think it's like one,
6:35
Speaker 1: you know that they've voted on this, and so overwhelming
6:38
Speaker 1: support from both sides of the aisle on this piece
6:41
Speaker 1: and what it does that takes exercise taxes from that
6:45
Speaker 1: oil and gas kind of piece and puts that into conservation.
6:50
Speaker 1: In all, all fifty states have used it, and I
6:52
Speaker 1: think it's like of the counties in America have had
6:57
Speaker 1: some land and water conservation project. And so what is
6:59
Speaker 1: that money? It's for. Money is youth for um, you know,
7:03
Speaker 1: swimming pools and tennis courts. It's used for fishing access sites.
7:07
Speaker 1: You know, on my home state of Montana, our fishing
7:10
Speaker 1: access sites are paid for by the Land Water Conservation
7:13
Speaker 1: Fund um. And then it goes for you know, some
7:15
Speaker 1: large kind of purchases and and to me, you know,
7:21
Speaker 1: those large purchases in particular, I can add to again
7:24
Speaker 1: that publican state of six and forty million acres. But
7:26
Speaker 1: almost even more essential is the ability to get to
7:29
Speaker 1: some of that inaccessible public land that you and I
7:31
Speaker 1: own right now that we can't get to. And this
7:33
Speaker 1: is like the tool basically to get us to that.
7:36
Speaker 1: And and so you know, it's universally been used again
7:41
Speaker 1: the county, and I think about like rural America in particular,
7:44
Speaker 1: where they don't have the tax base to build parks.
7:47
Speaker 1: This has been absolutely essential. You know my kin my
7:50
Speaker 1: kids in Missoula, Montana, they play on the soccer fields
7:55
Speaker 1: are paid for by the land Water Conservation Fund. And
7:57
Speaker 1: then we also use fishing access sites that are right
7:59
Speaker 1: in downtown Mizzoula that we're paid for by the Landing
8:02
Speaker 1: Water Conservation Fund. So to me, you know, this this
8:05
Speaker 1: is uh, it's it's pretty awesome. And what's been going on,
8:08
Speaker 1: you know until now this isn't passed yet. I think
8:12
Speaker 1: that everybody should understand that that you really need to
8:16
Speaker 1: call your senators. Um, and it's gonna go over into
8:19
Speaker 1: the house after that, but call your senators. And I
8:21
Speaker 1: think that number is two oh two to two four
8:24
Speaker 1: three one to one, and asked them to pass to
8:26
Speaker 1: get outdoors. Um, I think it's three four. It's it
8:30
Speaker 1: sent a bill three four two two And to me, um,
8:34
Speaker 1: we gotta get that done. But like again that this
8:38
Speaker 1: is we've had to go to the appropriations process every
8:41
Speaker 1: single year and so land Water Conservation Fund is only
8:45
Speaker 1: it's been authorized ninellion dollars, it's only been fully funded
8:49
Speaker 1: once at llion dollars and so through that this entire
8:52
Speaker 1: you know, like I guess career of the for existence
8:57
Speaker 1: of the landa water conservation fund. It's only been fund
9:00
Speaker 1: at once fully and so we have to go back
9:03
Speaker 1: every single year to Congress and beg and plead and
9:06
Speaker 1: you have to make you know, phone calls and try
9:08
Speaker 1: to get us as much as we can. And that
9:10
Speaker 1: has been ranged from about three hundred four hundred and
9:12
Speaker 1: fifty million here in the last recent past. And and
9:17
Speaker 1: now that goes away. So now this will be permanently
9:20
Speaker 1: rapized at llion dollars. And not only are we getting
9:23
Speaker 1: the land of Water controversial Fund, but we're also getting
9:26
Speaker 1: two billion dollars to billion dollars with the B for
9:32
Speaker 1: backlog maintenance on our public lands. And so that's national parks,
9:35
Speaker 1: that's your espicial life service, that's for service, that's growth
9:38
Speaker 1: land management like that will happen for five years and
9:41
Speaker 1: so that it won't address all the backlog maintenance needs
9:44
Speaker 1: that we have out there, but it will definitely make
9:47
Speaker 1: a big dent in that. And so that when you
9:49
Speaker 1: go to your public lands, you have the facilities, you
9:52
Speaker 1: have the roads that will make your experience and you know,
9:55
Speaker 1: a great one. And and so this is I mean,
9:57
Speaker 1: this is I can't emphasis enough how awesome this is.
10:01
Speaker 1: And none of this costs US tax players any money
10:03
Speaker 1: which comes off of oil and gas re suits, which
10:05
Speaker 1: I think was pretty rap. So so the Great American
10:10
Speaker 1: Outdoors AFT covers the the permanent funding all the l
10:15
Speaker 1: w CF, and last year the Dangle Johnson Natural Resources Act,
10:20
Speaker 1: you know, permanently established l w CF. Now we've got
10:23
Speaker 1: the permanent funding, and as you just said, now we've
10:26
Speaker 1: got funding for all this public land maintenance stuff like
10:29
Speaker 1: trail work, roadwork, facilities, etcetera, etcetera. All the stuff happening
10:33
Speaker 1: is it's it's amazing, but it's also a little bit
10:37
Speaker 1: head scratching in that just a year and a half
10:41
Speaker 1: ago or so, in the fall of two thousand and eighteen,
10:43
Speaker 1: we're worried that l w CF was gonna be gone.
10:46
Speaker 1: Right it expired, we couldn't get people to rally around,
10:49
Speaker 1: or at least we couldn't get politicians to extend it
10:51
Speaker 1: and keep it going. That happened when we saw the
10:54
Speaker 1: current administration put out their budget just a few weeks
10:57
Speaker 1: ago they proposed slashing Land Water Conservation Funds funding bent
11:03
Speaker 1: So just like a month ago they came out and
11:05
Speaker 1: said they wanted to cut the funding, and then this
11:10
Speaker 1: week or a couple of days ago, last week, Now
11:12
Speaker 1: they did, Now we want to fund it. How do
11:16
Speaker 1: you make sense of this huge turnaround, I mean, crazy
11:20
Speaker 1: flip of of events. How do you make sense of this?
11:24
Speaker 1: I think? I mean, I'll start with kind of like
11:27
Speaker 1: the sunset, which you talked about, that happened a year
11:29
Speaker 1: and a half ago, where kind of this this funding
11:33
Speaker 1: mechanism went away, and I think the angst that was
11:36
Speaker 1: felt by the people, Um, you know, I think there's
11:39
Speaker 1: been a huge education effort by back counts and anglers,
11:42
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of other organizations around man
11:44
Speaker 1: A water contribution funds And when that sunset, people understood
11:48
Speaker 1: what that meant and and so they're you know, the
11:51
Speaker 1: the ire that they shared with their elected officials. It
11:56
Speaker 1: was pretty extreme. Um you know, there was the whole
11:58
Speaker 1: shutdown that happens last year, and this current authorization happened
12:04
Speaker 1: pretty much right when they got back. And that was
12:07
Speaker 1: because when they were at home when it was during
12:09
Speaker 1: the shutdown, people were talking to them about this. They
12:12
Speaker 1: were picking up the phone, they were sending emails, and
12:15
Speaker 1: so that public pressure I think really made that happened
12:19
Speaker 1: last year with the with the Dingle Act, I would
12:22
Speaker 1: say that you describe it well. The administration, you know,
12:28
Speaker 1: came out with their budget, and you know, I would say, yes,
12:30
Speaker 1: it was, but it was basically zero outland and water
12:33
Speaker 1: conservation phone. And you know, there's this thing called big
12:37
Speaker 1: P politics, right, and I think that we should all
12:41
Speaker 1: be aware of that and how important that is sometimes
12:45
Speaker 1: to move certain pieces of legislation. And so what happened
12:48
Speaker 1: is that Senator Gardner from Colorado, UH, Senator Danes from Montana.
12:54
Speaker 1: They went to the White House and they said, we
12:56
Speaker 1: are in very tough senate races. We need a win
13:01
Speaker 1: really bad and what do we need. We need the
13:04
Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservations Fund. Now they don't go ask
13:07
Speaker 1: about the Land and Water Conservations one. I will talk
13:08
Speaker 1: about Mr Dane's particular Mr Dane's five years ago round numbers.
13:13
Speaker 1: I was talking about dismantling the way that Land Water
13:16
Speaker 1: Conservation Fund is actually done. And we, as well as
13:20
Speaker 1: others in Montana, we found them pretty hard about that
13:23
Speaker 1: and said we want to keep it the way it is.
13:25
Speaker 1: And so he came around and and and really listen
13:28
Speaker 1: to the people, which is what they're supposed to do,
13:30
Speaker 1: and he said, Okay, let's keep it the same now
13:34
Speaker 1: he is going to the President of the United States
13:38
Speaker 1: and asking for this to happen. And you know, it's
13:42
Speaker 1: a it's such an awesome case of the people's voice
13:45
Speaker 1: actually matters, and so they go to the president. You know,
13:48
Speaker 1: the President comes out with a tweet last week. I mean,
13:51
Speaker 1: think about how he tweets about a lot of stuff,
13:55
Speaker 1: but he tweets about the Land and Water Conservation Fund says,
13:58
Speaker 1: you know, Congress, bring me a bill and I'll sign up.
14:02
Speaker 1: And and that is like, I mean, it's it's just
14:04
Speaker 1: mind boggling how awesome it is and how powerful that is,
14:08
Speaker 1: especially juxtaposition when you just as you described and I
14:11
Speaker 1: just said, like they just zeroed this program out for
14:14
Speaker 1: political reasons. This is happening and I think, you know
14:17
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen in the vacuum. The people have made
14:19
Speaker 1: that happen. And so you know, Mr Gardner, I think
14:22
Speaker 1: he's down by eleven points right now. So hicken Looper
14:25
Speaker 1: in that race in Colorado. Uh, you know, Governor Bullock
14:30
Speaker 1: just joined the Senate race in Montana, and so you
14:33
Speaker 1: know Mr Danes is nervous about that piece. And because
14:37
Speaker 1: of that deadness happens and now, you know, I think
14:40
Speaker 1: there's has talked to Julia. People's are Government Affairs UM
14:47
Speaker 1: staffer out in d C right before this call. And
14:50
Speaker 1: we're at fifty eight co sponsors already, and you have
14:55
Speaker 1: to basically get to sixty to make this a done deal.
14:57
Speaker 1: And so I'm feeling super confident this piece, and you
15:01
Speaker 1: know it again is introduced on late Monday night and
15:06
Speaker 1: we have fifty eight close sponsors already. Like people understand
15:08
Speaker 1: how important this is and how important it is to
15:12
Speaker 1: their constituents. And the only reason they understand that is
15:15
Speaker 1: because we the people demanded it. And I you know,
15:19
Speaker 1: you asked kind of earlier about you know, what does
15:23
Speaker 1: this mean for other things? And and to me, it's
15:27
Speaker 1: you know, this momentum that we have right now that
15:30
Speaker 1: we enjoyed, you know about a year ago when we
15:32
Speaker 1: passed you know, land of Water Contribution Fund permanently and
15:36
Speaker 1: that you know a bunch of other land kind of
15:38
Speaker 1: a public land um provisions within that bill that was passed,
15:42
Speaker 1: Like this is a follow up to that, and I
15:44
Speaker 1: think people should really take stock and that their voice
15:49
Speaker 1: actually matters, Like this is not happened because you know,
15:52
Speaker 1: Congress got together and they said, man, you know, we should,
15:55
Speaker 1: we should, we should do this good thing. It was
15:57
Speaker 1: because the people demanded it, and you know, uh in
16:02
Speaker 1: that is that our voice still matters. It's kind of funny. Um.
16:06
Speaker 1: Sometimes I find or I think a lot of us
16:08
Speaker 1: find ourselves getting frustrated with public lands or conservation or
16:13
Speaker 1: protecting the environment becoming political. Like we we we express
16:17
Speaker 1: anger or angst over the fact that these topics are
16:20
Speaker 1: um political football's at times or so part of partisan.
16:25
Speaker 1: But this is a situation where it's actually I think
16:29
Speaker 1: the political nature of the issue, Like you said, we've
16:32
Speaker 1: made it so it's become a political issue so that
16:36
Speaker 1: they have to do what we say simply because they
16:38
Speaker 1: need the support across across the country in various different ways,
16:42
Speaker 1: and we are forcing the issue. So in this case,
16:44
Speaker 1: like yeah, you can look at this and say, oh,
16:47
Speaker 1: it's it's a political move. But I don't think we
16:50
Speaker 1: want to look a gift horse in the mouth. I
16:52
Speaker 1: think we should say, hey, we we forced a political
16:54
Speaker 1: move the benefited public lands and conservation. That's a great thing.
16:57
Speaker 1: Like you said, this probably wasn't like a change of
16:59
Speaker 1: heart for some people maybe, but it was a yeah,
17:02
Speaker 1: we better do this because people are demanding it. And
17:04
Speaker 1: in this case, we're making our representatives work for us,
17:08
Speaker 1: which is what we're supposed to do, right, absolutely, you know,
17:11
Speaker 1: and I think that you know, again, like when you know,
17:16
Speaker 1: Senator days, the Cenator Garter could have gone to the
17:19
Speaker 1: President and talked about any issue, right, whatever that issue
17:22
Speaker 1: is in this country, is that healthcare is a you know,
17:25
Speaker 1: immigration is an economy, whatever they were going to go
17:29
Speaker 1: say to the president, But they chose to talk about
17:32
Speaker 1: an issue that matters to all of us. And having
17:35
Speaker 1: our issues elevated as a top tier issue, you know,
17:38
Speaker 1: I think that you know, Montana, I think it's been
17:40
Speaker 1: like that for probably a decade now. And you know,
17:44
Speaker 1: that's that's my recent history. Maybe that was a part
17:47
Speaker 1: of us you know, maybe like public lands and kind
17:49
Speaker 1: of conservation was part of a history before that. But
17:51
Speaker 1: I think in my time that it's become a top
17:54
Speaker 1: tier issue in Montana, and it's becoming a top tier
17:57
Speaker 1: issue in Colorado. And and so know, the more that
18:01
Speaker 1: this is something that we raise to that level, the better,
18:05
Speaker 1: right And and and I think you're right, like I
18:09
Speaker 1: think that those political footballs, you know, I think about
18:12
Speaker 1: back to the monument review that happened on our national monuments.
18:16
Speaker 1: And now I'm really worried that you know, one president
18:19
Speaker 1: is gonna say monuments are awesome, and then president gonna
18:21
Speaker 1: say monuments are bad. We're gonna have this like football
18:24
Speaker 1: that gets passed back and forth that you're talking about
18:26
Speaker 1: um and that frustrates me. But this case, it is
18:31
Speaker 1: absolutely awesome. I think we should all revel in the
18:33
Speaker 1: idea that the president is talking about this and that
18:35
Speaker 1: two senators went to the President and said this is
18:37
Speaker 1: our top tier priorities. Like I like that is that's
18:40
Speaker 1: huge for us. And as I think of community and
18:44
Speaker 1: that bipartisan nature, you know, the you know of Republicans
18:48
Speaker 1: and Democrats getting together like like Mark tell me, I
18:52
Speaker 1: mean I don't I don't know another issue where they're
18:55
Speaker 1: coming together around this, maybe around the maybe beyond this
18:58
Speaker 1: virus exactly right now, right, like like they came together there, right,
19:01
Speaker 1: they got something done very quickly. But other than that,
19:05
Speaker 1: now they're not really coming together. And so what do
19:07
Speaker 1: they come together? And they coming together on public lands
19:09
Speaker 1: and why are they doing that is because of the
19:11
Speaker 1: you know, public lands don't care if you're a Democrat Republican, independent, libertarian.
19:17
Speaker 1: They don't care and we all use them, right, So
19:20
Speaker 1: it's like it's this universal kind of American thing and
19:24
Speaker 1: they got to listen to us. So I'm I mean,
19:26
Speaker 1: this is the president that this is setting. I think, Um,
19:30
Speaker 1: I'm knocking on wood. I'm sitting in a hotel and Omaha, Nebraska,
19:35
Speaker 1: I'm knocking on wood. But I think that the president
19:37
Speaker 1: that this sends it means nothing but good things for
19:41
Speaker 1: conservation is to move forward. And you make a great
19:43
Speaker 1: point about how this is pretty rare across the rest
19:47
Speaker 1: of our political world, across that's the country and a
19:50
Speaker 1: lot of issues. It's it's actually I just a couple
19:53
Speaker 1: of months ago wrote an op ed about this for
19:55
Speaker 1: The Hill and pointed to the fact that what we've
19:57
Speaker 1: seen over the last couple of years with public lands
20:00
Speaker 1: perfect example of how Americans can come together on things
20:05
Speaker 1: that matter by putting aside political labels and our team
20:08
Speaker 1: colors and roversus urban or ari i versus cabell as.
20:11
Speaker 1: We can set those things aside and work together and
20:14
Speaker 1: this radical idea of civility and compromise leading to good things.
20:18
Speaker 1: And and then this thing comes along and just perfectly
20:21
Speaker 1: puts the like a shining light on on the example
20:26
Speaker 1: of that that we can point to for now decades.
20:28
Speaker 1: I think, Um, But to your point, now, we need
20:33
Speaker 1: to get it past the finish lines. So before I
20:35
Speaker 1: ask you about anything else other than calling our senators,
20:38
Speaker 1: is there anything else we should do to make sure
20:40
Speaker 1: that the Great American Outdoors Act is past any any
20:43
Speaker 1: other recommendations, any other things we need to be thinking
20:46
Speaker 1: about keeping in mind, um or taking action on sure.
20:51
Speaker 1: So I think that that so the Senate is the
20:54
Speaker 1: first piece, um. And I think calling your senators is
20:58
Speaker 1: absolutely important. I think talking about this on social media
21:01
Speaker 1: mark is a super important thing. Um. And I think
21:04
Speaker 1: that you know, we all have our we all have
21:07
Speaker 1: our basis. I mean, this podcast is gonna, know, be
21:09
Speaker 1: listened to by thousands of people. And I think that like,
21:12
Speaker 1: we all have our networks after that, right, And so
21:15
Speaker 1: you know, if you're getting your teeth cleaning at the
21:16
Speaker 1: dentist that or if you're getting your haircut where at
21:19
Speaker 1: the barbershop, whatever you're doing. And I think talking about
21:21
Speaker 1: this piece and how awesome it is, I think it's
21:23
Speaker 1: a moment that we need to seize upon. Uh. And
21:26
Speaker 1: I think there's you Besides the immediate kind of piece
21:29
Speaker 1: of that I'm trying to get this legislation passes, there's
21:31
Speaker 1: this education moment as well, and and so there's that piece.
21:35
Speaker 1: Now the House is talking, their House leadership is talking
21:39
Speaker 1: right now is the Senate. And I think we're gonna
21:41
Speaker 1: have uh companion legislation that let's exactly like what happens
21:46
Speaker 1: in the Senate. And so I have very you know,
21:48
Speaker 1: a lot of confidence at the House will do the
21:50
Speaker 1: exactly the same thing that the Senator is doing. But
21:52
Speaker 1: don't think that, you know, once the Senate passes this,
21:56
Speaker 1: which I think will happen within the next two weeks,
21:59
Speaker 1: are they going tests next week? I think it'll be
22:02
Speaker 1: one of the first things that they do when they return.
22:05
Speaker 1: And Mr Danes has done a procedural thing where it
22:07
Speaker 1: doesn't have to go through committee. It just goes straight
22:10
Speaker 1: to the floor for a vote. But then we have
22:13
Speaker 1: the House, and I think, you know, while I I
22:16
Speaker 1: think the House will be supportive, I think that's another
22:18
Speaker 1: opportunity for us all to get engaged UM and and
22:22
Speaker 1: really can call our people UM that represent us. And
22:25
Speaker 1: then you know, it goes to the President. And what
22:26
Speaker 1: I would love is to have just these overwhelming majorities.
22:30
Speaker 1: I mean the President already you know in his tweet
22:32
Speaker 1: he said send me something, I will sign it, a
22:35
Speaker 1: full confidence that he's going to sign it. But I
22:37
Speaker 1: would love for that to go to him from the
22:39
Speaker 1: Senate and the House, just overwhelming majorities and that we
22:43
Speaker 1: can all kind of sit back and celebrate. So that's
22:45
Speaker 1: kind of like I feel like the I think the
22:48
Speaker 1: calling piece is super important. Um, you know, we have
22:51
Speaker 1: an email. I think we've sent almost ten thousand emails
22:56
Speaker 1: through our system right now at b h ah. There's
22:59
Speaker 1: that's such another opportunities to send emails. But I think
23:02
Speaker 1: that piece about talking about this to your friends and
23:06
Speaker 1: family and acquaintances, it's such an important deal. And I
23:10
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of people probably that don't know
23:12
Speaker 1: what the Land of Water Controvation Fund is. Um, there's
23:15
Speaker 1: a lot of people that probably think their voice doesn't count.
23:17
Speaker 1: And like, you start talking about this, that's this like
23:20
Speaker 1: momentum that we get and not only they get educated
23:24
Speaker 1: about what this is, but then they're like WHOA, Like
23:27
Speaker 1: our actual government is working for me, And I think
23:30
Speaker 1: that's what they're supposed to do. But I think there's
23:32
Speaker 1: a lot of disenfranchise with that right now. And and
23:35
Speaker 1: so I think the more we talk about this and
23:37
Speaker 1: then we get a big win, let's celebrate like it's
23:39
Speaker 1: like right, it's like it's a it's a big one. Yeah,
23:46
Speaker 1: there's something we said about revel reveling in that a
23:48
Speaker 1: little bit. And and like you said, again, seeing our
23:52
Speaker 1: voice does matter. And I think that's that's something I've
23:56
Speaker 1: been thinking a lot about. Is I do think that
23:58
Speaker 1: this is probably one of us things that when you
24:01
Speaker 1: read a book about the history of public lands and
24:04
Speaker 1: you're reading it in they'll be writing about this. They'll
24:07
Speaker 1: be writing about the late teens, in the early twenties
24:10
Speaker 1: and this movement, this moment um. What do you think?
24:15
Speaker 1: Tell me two things. Number one, what do you think
24:18
Speaker 1: that we've been doing well over the past few years
24:21
Speaker 1: that have led to this? And what are a few
24:23
Speaker 1: things that you think that we haven't been doing so
24:25
Speaker 1: well that if we want to keep the momentum, we've
24:27
Speaker 1: got to change anything that you can point to, Because
24:31
Speaker 1: we went from this point, you know, ten years ago,
24:35
Speaker 1: six seven years ago, where we were really concerned about
24:38
Speaker 1: our public lands in some cases being transferred just sold away,
24:42
Speaker 1: we have this serious rise of concern around it, and
24:44
Speaker 1: now here we are in with landmark positive public land progress. Um,
24:51
Speaker 1: what do we do well? What aren't we doing well? Enough? Great? First,
24:58
Speaker 1: I will read that book when you write like, I'm
25:03
Speaker 1: gonna hold you to that. Please do that. Um, But
25:07
Speaker 1: I think you know back to like what we're doing well?
25:09
Speaker 1: I think it's education then. And you know, I I
25:13
Speaker 1: get up at these pint nights or conferences or wherever
25:16
Speaker 1: I'm speaking, and you know, for the last seven years,
25:20
Speaker 1: I've you know, I've talked about this issue other land
25:23
Speaker 1: of Water Controversation fund, and that's you know, ten years
25:25
Speaker 1: or seven years ago. Let's say when I first started
25:27
Speaker 1: the vh A and a group of people, if I said, hell,
25:30
Speaker 1: how many people know about the land and water controversations?
25:32
Speaker 1: Raise your hand? There might be ten percent of the
25:35
Speaker 1: people in that room that raise their hand. Um, they
25:37
Speaker 1: did not know about this. And if I you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: I've I've got a event tonight here in Omaha. Um,
25:44
Speaker 1: and I'll ask that question. I almost guarantee you that
25:47
Speaker 1: like the people gonna raise their hand and they know
25:50
Speaker 1: about this issue. So what are we doing well? I
25:54
Speaker 1: think we're educating and I say that from back country
25:58
Speaker 1: owners anglers. I say that from Mark Kenyon. I said
26:01
Speaker 1: that's from meat eater. I feel like that's been like
26:03
Speaker 1: a uh a universal effort by our community is to
26:07
Speaker 1: educate all of us and the masses on what the
26:11
Speaker 1: Land of Water Conservation Fund is, on what public lands are,
26:15
Speaker 1: and what they mean to us, how they came about.
26:17
Speaker 1: You know, my my mentor Jim pause with which his
26:21
Speaker 1: eighty five birthday this last weekend and something he's always
26:24
Speaker 1: counted into me is like they got to know the story,
26:27
Speaker 1: they got another story. And once once people find out
26:30
Speaker 1: about how we got our public lands and that you know,
26:33
Speaker 1: it hasn't happened by accident, and they understand they gotta
26:36
Speaker 1: be a part of it. And so I think, what
26:37
Speaker 1: have we done well? I think education, Um, what have
26:42
Speaker 1: we done that hasn't worked so well? I think that it.
26:48
Speaker 1: I think we could always do better at the education, right.
26:50
Speaker 1: I think that that's you know, I don't I don't
26:54
Speaker 1: some of that, um, you don't want to pound in
26:57
Speaker 1: the people's heads that like they turned off. Like I
26:58
Speaker 1: think the education is like a thing that you get
27:02
Speaker 1: in doses, and it's more almost like osmosis. And it
27:05
Speaker 1: is like you shall learn this. Um. So I think
27:07
Speaker 1: we could be doing better there. Um. I think that
27:12
Speaker 1: that's a great question on what we could do better.
27:14
Speaker 1: I feel like the sportsman's community as a whole, like
27:20
Speaker 1: we could be just better advocates. And what I mean
27:23
Speaker 1: by that is that it's not enough to buy, you know,
27:26
Speaker 1: your license. It's not enough to like, you know, buy
27:29
Speaker 1: your guns and ammunition and all that money that you
27:33
Speaker 1: spend on your licenses and then a portion of those
27:35
Speaker 1: you know, proceeds from your guns and from your from
27:39
Speaker 1: your ammunition goes back to conservation. Like that's not enough.
27:43
Speaker 1: And I feel like like we need to be to
27:46
Speaker 1: do a better job about that piece. And the second
27:51
Speaker 1: piece I would say is that I don't think I
27:52
Speaker 1: think we're on the cost of it, um. But you know,
27:56
Speaker 1: I think we can do a better job reaching out
27:58
Speaker 1: to people that don't hunt and fish. And as our
28:02
Speaker 1: our numbers dwindle in this country as far as overall
28:05
Speaker 1: percentage of hunters and anglers compared to the you know,
28:08
Speaker 1: the overall population, like, we're never gonna We're never gonna
28:12
Speaker 1: you know, increase that necessarily. If we might, you know,
28:15
Speaker 1: we might get new hunters and anglers, but as far
28:17
Speaker 1: as the overall percentage is going to continue to go down.
28:20
Speaker 1: And so I think one thing we're doing way better
28:22
Speaker 1: is really working with folks that don't pull the trigger
28:26
Speaker 1: ripped lips, and and if we do that, then they
28:31
Speaker 1: understand like more about us and hunters and anglers and
28:35
Speaker 1: what we care about conservation, and then we get to
28:38
Speaker 1: know them better. And you know, if they're not just
28:40
Speaker 1: mountain bikers or climbers, they just want to kind of
28:44
Speaker 1: use the outdoors and don't really care if there's animals
28:46
Speaker 1: out there, don't really care about conservation. I think that
28:49
Speaker 1: shared understanding and that shared yes ethos, It's something I
28:56
Speaker 1: think we're missing a little bit right now, and so
28:58
Speaker 1: I think we could do a way better job there
29:00
Speaker 1: that That definitely seems from everything I've seen and learned
29:05
Speaker 1: over the years that we have to have that coalition approach.
29:09
Speaker 1: We can't tackle this thing on our own. We need
29:11
Speaker 1: the whole outdoor community. Whether you do our thing or
29:14
Speaker 1: do something else, we gotta find ways to come together. Um,
29:18
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's important. I'm curious about another thing
29:22
Speaker 1: going on here. Yeah, there's this is this is a
29:27
Speaker 1: huge win if it, if it gets past, we're riding
29:31
Speaker 1: on a high right now. But at the same time,
29:33
Speaker 1: if you look over the last handful of years, you
29:36
Speaker 1: can also point to a whole lot of slashes and cuts.
29:40
Speaker 1: And this place is open up to more drilling, and
29:43
Speaker 1: this place is going to be opened up to more logging,
29:45
Speaker 1: and this place is going to be cut out, and
29:47
Speaker 1: this place is gonna get roads. And it's this whole
29:49
Speaker 1: death by a thousand cuts thing that has been going on,
29:54
Speaker 1: and then you have a big win like this. Are
29:57
Speaker 1: you Are you still worried about the death by thousand
30:00
Speaker 1: cuts type of issues or do you feel like we're
30:04
Speaker 1: getting enough momentum that those things are going to come
30:07
Speaker 1: to halt as well? Or let me rephrase the question, um,
30:13
Speaker 1: are you word at all that we will be blinded
30:15
Speaker 1: by our happiness with this wind and forget about all
30:19
Speaker 1: these other smaller things that are happening more locally, um?
30:24
Speaker 1: Or I don't know makes sense of any of that?
30:25
Speaker 1: As you can now, I think I really enjoy the question. Um.
30:33
Speaker 1: Access is easy, right, like land and water controvation. Fond
30:36
Speaker 1: is all about, like access and growing this public estate
30:39
Speaker 1: and EASi people to rally around. I think the backlog
30:44
Speaker 1: maintenance piece that you know, Mr I'm referring to Mexico
30:47
Speaker 1: really pushed and that's why it's in the bill. Like
30:50
Speaker 1: like that's pretty easy stuff. It's it's really easy to like, Okay,
30:54
Speaker 1: we want that. And I what I hope mark is
30:58
Speaker 1: it's like a gateway drug, you know. I like, like
31:01
Speaker 1: we get we get a little bit of this juice, right,
31:04
Speaker 1: and I get excited, and like we get a win,
31:07
Speaker 1: and then we pivot that into you know, places like
31:09
Speaker 1: the Arctic National Wildife Refuge that's under threat, or the
31:12
Speaker 1: Boundary Waters is under threat, or the Clean Water Act
31:16
Speaker 1: they just got rolled back puts that risk. You know,
31:19
Speaker 1: Prairie a Postholes in particular, which is a duck factory
31:21
Speaker 1: of the world. Like I like those ones. I mean,
31:24
Speaker 1: I think those landscapes of Boundary Waters and the Arctic
31:26
Speaker 1: are probably pretty iconic. But when you get into like
31:29
Speaker 1: funding for our public lands, or when you get into
31:33
Speaker 1: like grazing kind of rules, or you get into like
31:36
Speaker 1: a Clean Water Act, like people just aren't as fired
31:38
Speaker 1: up about that stuff. And what I hope happens out
31:42
Speaker 1: of this is that that that we celebrate, right, I
31:45
Speaker 1: think it's super important for us to throw a huge
31:48
Speaker 1: party once this all gets done, um, and just revel
31:51
Speaker 1: in that piece that you know, you and I and
31:53
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully everybody listening to this was a part of.
31:57
Speaker 1: But then let's take that momentum and look at other issues,
31:59
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say that,
32:02
Speaker 1: you know, the Clean Water Act is going to rise
32:04
Speaker 1: necessarily to the importance um that Land and Water Conservation Fund,
32:08
Speaker 1: But damn well should you know? Like that that's stuff
32:11
Speaker 1: that we should be doing and the people should be demanding.
32:14
Speaker 1: I mean, like clean water, Like why does that so
32:16
Speaker 1: hard to AVO came for? That should be a no brainer.
32:19
Speaker 1: And and so I Mark, I, you know, glass is
32:23
Speaker 1: always has full with me, and I have a lot
32:26
Speaker 1: of hope that the momentum that we're you know, creating,
32:29
Speaker 1: and I think from I think it started back with
32:31
Speaker 1: the push against Shape. That's when he, you know, Congressman
32:35
Speaker 1: Shape that'z may tried to sell three million acres. You know,
32:38
Speaker 1: was that three or four years ago? Like the sportsman's
32:40
Speaker 1: community rose up and they said hell no, and then
32:43
Speaker 1: he pulled it back and we were like WHOA, Like
32:46
Speaker 1: our voices actually do better, and then you know you
32:48
Speaker 1: have the vote. Last year, you know, the Permian authorized
32:50
Speaker 1: we had a water conservation phone, and then you know
32:52
Speaker 1: there are seven pages of that bill had a bunch
32:54
Speaker 1: of public lands protections in there, you know, like I
32:56
Speaker 1: think they they did mineral withdrawals on a site outside
33:01
Speaker 1: of Yellowstone and the mono drawls in the Metzu Valley
33:04
Speaker 1: and Washington and so like that momentum that we're having
33:08
Speaker 1: and that we have right now, like let's revel in it.
33:11
Speaker 1: But like let's like we can't sit on the couch
33:14
Speaker 1: or sit on the porch and clink our beers and
33:17
Speaker 1: then talk about this for the next three years. That
33:19
Speaker 1: we got a lot more stuff to do. And and
33:22
Speaker 1: this this whole thing is like it's a it's and
33:26
Speaker 1: if you look at history, and I think that's why
33:28
Speaker 1: Jim Pozzle's kind of that into me. This is that
33:30
Speaker 1: like it's not like we get to like get something
33:32
Speaker 1: done and then we just get to like, you know,
33:35
Speaker 1: wash our hands and we're done. Like this is a
33:37
Speaker 1: thing that constantly has to happen and we have to
33:41
Speaker 1: be engaged. And and to me, I'm hoping that's what
33:44
Speaker 1: comes out of this whole thing. Do you find there's
33:47
Speaker 1: this One of the things I learned through the process
33:49
Speaker 1: of writing my book was the fact that you kind
33:51
Speaker 1: of see that I can't remember where I heard this
33:53
Speaker 1: or where I read this. Someone I got this somewhere.
33:55
Speaker 1: They point out the fact that when it comes to
33:58
Speaker 1: protecting public lands or kind servation, Um, we have to
34:03
Speaker 1: if we win a fight, we have to keep on
34:06
Speaker 1: defending it. So if we protect a landscape or something,
34:08
Speaker 1: we have to keep on protecting, keep on protecting, keep
34:10
Speaker 1: on fighting, because there's constantly gonna be a tax on
34:12
Speaker 1: constant it's gonna it's never gonna end. On the flip side,
34:15
Speaker 1: if the anti public land are the folks that want
34:19
Speaker 1: to develop a piece of ground or something, they win,
34:21
Speaker 1: They win just once and there's nothing we can really
34:23
Speaker 1: do about it. They've they've we've lost that piece of
34:25
Speaker 1: ground or we've lost its pristine wilderness nature or whatever
34:28
Speaker 1: it might be. Um, we've got to keep going and
34:31
Speaker 1: going and going. It's like you said, it's a never
34:32
Speaker 1: ending fight. Do you find that depressing or invigorating? And
34:38
Speaker 1: like that's the kick in the ass that gets you
34:40
Speaker 1: up in the morning. How do you look at that
34:42
Speaker 1: kind of thing? Uh? Depends on the day, right, I think.
34:47
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you know, like myself personally, I feel
34:50
Speaker 1: overwhelmed and I feel like we're losing and I feel depressed. Um,
34:56
Speaker 1: there's other days where I feel that you and I
35:01
Speaker 1: are part of this like conservation movement that's you know,
35:05
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty forty years old in this country,
35:09
Speaker 1: and how lucky are we to try to carry on
35:12
Speaker 1: that legacy and in this case that we're talking about today,
35:15
Speaker 1: actually build on it, Like how lucky are we? And
35:18
Speaker 1: so I have ebbs and flows there for sure. Um.
35:24
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, again, like I'm one of
35:25
Speaker 1: a glass aft full, and you know, I started looking
35:29
Speaker 1: at my you know, my young kids, you know, Sydney's eleven,
35:32
Speaker 1: Collins eight, and like, you know, all our job is
35:37
Speaker 1: right now is to pass. But we've inherited on in
35:41
Speaker 1: either the same way or better to them, so they
35:46
Speaker 1: have something to fight for, you know, And and it's
35:48
Speaker 1: it does seem daunting, it seems exhausting. Um, but man,
35:54
Speaker 1: you mean you wouldn't even be having this conversations. Those
35:56
Speaker 1: people had to come before us, right, and so we
35:59
Speaker 1: are key if we're doing what we're doing, and you know,
36:03
Speaker 1: it's it's it's about us find out who's next, you know,
36:06
Speaker 1: is that who's that next leader? Who's that you know?
36:09
Speaker 1: And again like no matter where you are on that
36:13
Speaker 1: spoke of kind of like this wheel that is spinning right,
36:16
Speaker 1: whether you are in the center of it as you know,
36:19
Speaker 1: a senator or whoever, or on the on the edges
36:22
Speaker 1: on somebody just made a phone call or send an email,
36:24
Speaker 1: Like you're part of this conservation kind of process, and
36:28
Speaker 1: it's important for us all to be a part of that.
36:30
Speaker 1: And so I have I have great hope, um ah,
36:35
Speaker 1: and I get interepiration from things like that we're talking
36:37
Speaker 1: about today that like actually we're gonna be okay. But
36:39
Speaker 1: I will say it, there's some days that I feel
36:42
Speaker 1: beat down, and um I think there's others that feel
36:45
Speaker 1: beat down to and I think that's natural. But like, man,
36:48
Speaker 1: we're we're in the fight, like right, like we're in
36:50
Speaker 1: the arena, and I think that's pretty awesome. Yeah, yeah,
36:53
Speaker 1: I kind of go back and forth on it, just
36:55
Speaker 1: like you. Um there's that Leopold line where he said
36:58
Speaker 1: the curse of an ecological education is that you live
37:01
Speaker 1: in a world of wounds. So the point being that
37:03
Speaker 1: if you once you start paying attention to this stuff,
37:05
Speaker 1: you notice all of the depressing things, the daunting things. Um.
37:10
Speaker 1: But then, to quote another more current person, uh Von
37:14
Speaker 1: Schnard always says, the best care for depression is action.
37:18
Speaker 1: And that's what I always am trying to remind myself,
37:20
Speaker 1: like whenever I'm upset about something or depressed about something
37:23
Speaker 1: when it comes to these things, just just do something.
37:26
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a phone call, maybe it's just a tweet,
37:28
Speaker 1: maybe it's talked to a friend. But that little bit
37:31
Speaker 1: of action I think is the best way to, uh
37:33
Speaker 1: to keep this stuff going. And you mentioned your kids.
37:37
Speaker 1: That's been the thing that I think lit a fire
37:38
Speaker 1: under my ass more than anything was having kids. I
37:42
Speaker 1: have a two year old now and then now four
37:44
Speaker 1: week old, so I have two boys and just totally
37:47
Speaker 1: changes your perspective. Um. I don't know. I don't want
37:51
Speaker 1: to get to wishy wishy about stuff, but it's it's
37:55
Speaker 1: really changed how I think about all this because it's
37:58
Speaker 1: not just about you know me any more. It's not
38:01
Speaker 1: about you, It's it's about the next generation in a
38:03
Speaker 1: really tangible way. Yeah, I think that perspective is really
38:08
Speaker 1: important and we're both fathers And congratulations by the way, Um,
38:12
Speaker 1: that is awesome. I hope you're sleeping so sounds a
38:15
Speaker 1: personalherent that's good. Um, But even people that don't have kids,
38:20
Speaker 1: man like like like, just realize again this story, but
38:27
Speaker 1: how we got our public lands and you haven't really,
38:29
Speaker 1: I mean, I think your book definitely go right in
38:32
Speaker 1: the middle of that, is it, like, let's know the
38:34
Speaker 1: story and then like how lucky are we to be
38:37
Speaker 1: able to carry that on? You know, and whether you
38:39
Speaker 1: have kids or not, you know, I think that, Um,
38:42
Speaker 1: it's pretty exciting that you that you that we are.
38:45
Speaker 1: You know, what we have here in the United States,
38:47
Speaker 1: when we have in North america's super unique and it
38:51
Speaker 1: didn't happen by accident and it's not gonna be caring
38:53
Speaker 1: for bactment either. And how lucky are we that we
38:56
Speaker 1: the people can dictate how that happens. And you know,
39:00
Speaker 1: if we don't, if we we you know, sit back
39:03
Speaker 1: on that porch and you know, drink that beer and
39:06
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, we're done now, Like we will lose
39:09
Speaker 1: it all, you know, we will lose it all. And um,
39:12
Speaker 1: we have to stay engaged. And I think that's actually
39:15
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an exciting thing. Um that we actually
39:18
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to do that. Right, there's many other
39:20
Speaker 1: countries in this world that don't enjoy the embarrassment of
39:24
Speaker 1: riches that we have, and and even if they have them, like,
39:29
Speaker 1: they don't have the ability to have a voice on
39:33
Speaker 1: how they're managed or what happens with those. Uh. Well
39:36
Speaker 1: that's public qualify for our public lands and public waters.
39:39
Speaker 1: And so I think about how luck you are and
39:41
Speaker 1: then stay engaged. That's that's my big message I guess
39:44
Speaker 1: for people. Yeah, we we do. Uh, we do have
39:46
Speaker 1: a pretty good speaking of opportunities. There's something I should
39:50
Speaker 1: have mentioned earlier. I want to get your perspective on
39:53
Speaker 1: what's the story on the Map Land Act. That's another
39:56
Speaker 1: piece that was just recently introduced, a related public lands. Um,
40:00
Speaker 1: can you give us a scoop on that. Yeah, So
40:03
Speaker 1: there's a lot of inaccessible public lands in the United States,
40:06
Speaker 1: you know, whether that's if you look at the map
40:09
Speaker 1: in Montana. You know, the when the railroads came through,
40:12
Speaker 1: they got every other section and so and they sold
40:15
Speaker 1: that privately, and so now you have you know, public land,
40:18
Speaker 1: private land, public land, private lands. You have situations like
40:21
Speaker 1: that already have situations where you have a piece of
40:25
Speaker 1: public land, um that is donated by private land and
40:30
Speaker 1: you know, and so you have you think about that
40:32
Speaker 1: in the map, that's that that that square that has
40:35
Speaker 1: nothing but private land all the way around it. And
40:37
Speaker 1: so we have these inaccessible public lands in the United States,
40:39
Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, we're trying to figure
40:42
Speaker 1: out like where these things are and then figuring out
40:45
Speaker 1: like how do we get to them. And I think
40:47
Speaker 1: the Map Act does that. And you know, things like
40:49
Speaker 1: the Land of Water Controverations one that we're talking about earlier,
40:52
Speaker 1: or flip flu which is like the worst acronym in
40:55
Speaker 1: the world, the Federal Land Transaction Facilitation Act, UM, like
41:00
Speaker 1: they help us get to these places, but we don't,
41:02
Speaker 1: like we're trying to identify where those things are. And
41:05
Speaker 1: so I think that this helps us do that in
41:07
Speaker 1: a much better way. Um. And you know, on our
41:10
Speaker 1: public lands that belong to all of us. And I
41:12
Speaker 1: think there's cases and you're gonna hear me say this,
41:14
Speaker 1: and um, I hope people hear this strongly, but like
41:18
Speaker 1: there may be same places that you know, we want
41:19
Speaker 1: to divest. There may be some public land that doesn't
41:21
Speaker 1: make sense for us, the people to own. But let's
41:25
Speaker 1: figure out what those places are and let's figure out
41:27
Speaker 1: those places that actually really matter to us. And and
41:30
Speaker 1: I think you know that's that's part of this process
41:32
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. Do you worry it all about
41:37
Speaker 1: the slippery slope argument to that where if we start
41:41
Speaker 1: saying we're okay with some of that divester in in
41:44
Speaker 1: there in the right places, in the right ways, that
41:46
Speaker 1: folks will take that inch and make it a mile
41:49
Speaker 1: when we're not looking. I think, do I worry about that? Yes? Um?
41:57
Speaker 1: But am I confident in the people? Absolutely? And so
42:00
Speaker 1: you know I think that again, I mean it comes
42:02
Speaker 1: back to the basic for the crux of this whole conversation.
42:05
Speaker 1: So we have to stay engaged and we have to
42:07
Speaker 1: be educated on what's going on. And so if that
42:11
Speaker 1: stuff that is happening, you know, on the dark of night, Yeah,
42:13
Speaker 1: it makes me really freaked out if that's happening in
42:16
Speaker 1: a public process again, where we're deciding kind of you know,
42:20
Speaker 1: what's important or what is something that doesn't that doesn't
42:24
Speaker 1: necessarily make sense for us to have in public ownership, Like,
42:27
Speaker 1: as long as that's happen in a public way and
42:29
Speaker 1: we're engaged. I am totally comfortable with that. And so
42:32
Speaker 1: I think what we have to stay vigilant about is,
42:33
Speaker 1: you know, things like you know, when Mr Schaefitz, you,
42:36
Speaker 1: Mr Schaefitz, we introduced that bill to sell three million acres.
42:40
Speaker 1: He had done that before, UM, but nobody really get attention, right,
42:46
Speaker 1: he hadn't had the pushback like he got. And so
42:49
Speaker 1: when that actually happened, and you know, Joe Rogan and
42:53
Speaker 1: Steve's like, pick this up. I changed the game, man,
42:58
Speaker 1: And it's because people are paying attention. So to me,
43:00
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's just we have to stay
43:03
Speaker 1: vigimin um and so I don't I don't mind the
43:05
Speaker 1: process at all. I think that again, it's a good
43:08
Speaker 1: conversation to have, and we're willing to have that conversation,
43:10
Speaker 1: you know from back on Jenner's angers. I'm willing, you know,
43:13
Speaker 1: as the CEO, to have that conversation. Let's do that
43:17
Speaker 1: in a public way versus kind of like these um
43:20
Speaker 1: potential like kind of backroom, backroom, backroom deals. And if
43:24
Speaker 1: we if we do that, I'm I'm confident we'll be fine. Yeah.
43:28
Speaker 1: So so then tell me this, what's we're we're going
43:32
Speaker 1: to rally the troops. We're going to get our Senators
43:35
Speaker 1: to pass this, We're going to get the House to
43:37
Speaker 1: pass their version. President is going to fall through on
43:40
Speaker 1: his word, and this is gonna become a law. It's
43:42
Speaker 1: gonna be a huge win. What do you anticipate being
43:47
Speaker 1: the next rallying point we we we said we talked
43:50
Speaker 1: to you mentioned possibly the the issue around the Clean
43:54
Speaker 1: Water Act. There's everything going on with the Boundary Waters.
43:56
Speaker 1: There's the art of National Wildlife Refuge getting opened up.
43:59
Speaker 1: There's risk the Bay continue to be at risk of
44:01
Speaker 1: the mind, there's the Tongus National Forest with the role
44:04
Speaker 1: less rule. There's the whole Bears Ears thing that's been
44:07
Speaker 1: going on for years now. If you had to point
44:09
Speaker 1: out what you think might be our next major rallying point,
44:14
Speaker 1: what do you think that would be? What should we
44:17
Speaker 1: turn our because we're kicking ass, we're kicking ass and
44:19
Speaker 1: taking the names these last couple of years. Where where
44:21
Speaker 1: should we turn our attention to next? I think it's
44:25
Speaker 1: a great question, mark, and I think I think the
44:28
Speaker 1: iconic landscapes that you just described are absolutely what we
44:32
Speaker 1: need to turn our attention to. And you know, the
44:36
Speaker 1: there as many things that we could talk about right
44:38
Speaker 1: now kind of still that are happening at the federal level.
44:40
Speaker 1: And well that's like what the the next farm bill
44:44
Speaker 1: and conservational reserve program or you know againting clean water.
44:48
Speaker 1: I think those are major major issues. But as you
44:53
Speaker 1: said earlier, like we only have to lose once, right,
44:56
Speaker 1: like the Boundary Waters that mine goes in, right that
45:01
Speaker 1: changes that landscape forever. Bristol Bay, you know that mine
45:05
Speaker 1: goes in up there, like that changes that landscape forever,
45:08
Speaker 1: like we don't ever get that back. And so I think,
45:11
Speaker 1: you know, I think for me personally, I think our organization,
45:15
Speaker 1: and then folks listen to this. I think about those
45:18
Speaker 1: landscapes that are important to you and and really I
45:21
Speaker 1: think these iconic places like the boundary waters like Bristol Bay,
45:25
Speaker 1: like Congus, like the Arctic National wal Life Preftage. And
45:30
Speaker 1: I've never been to the Arctic National Life Prefuge, but
45:32
Speaker 1: holy cow, do I want to protect this because it's
45:34
Speaker 1: like this, it's like this dream of mine to go
45:38
Speaker 1: up there, right Like, I just like this this special
45:40
Speaker 1: place that belongs to you and I and everybody on
45:42
Speaker 1: this you know, let's listening to this and we may
45:45
Speaker 1: never go there. I may never go there. The Holy Cow?
45:48
Speaker 1: Is that? Like what a what a special thing that
45:50
Speaker 1: we have and and why would we try to defile that?
45:53
Speaker 1: And so I think, like I think turning our attention
45:56
Speaker 1: to these iconic landscapes. You know, I have been in
45:59
Speaker 1: the underwaters. Um, it's just this amazing, amazing, amazing play
46:04
Speaker 1: is the number one visited wilderness in the in the country. Um,
46:09
Speaker 1: it's I'm taking my kids there in August this year.
46:12
Speaker 1: Like that place, dude, is like and if we all
46:16
Speaker 1: turn our attention to that, like we did on this
46:18
Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservation Fund, like we protect that place
46:22
Speaker 1: for all future generations. Like all we have to do
46:25
Speaker 1: is like get that minimal withdrawal you know is south
46:29
Speaker 1: of there. That's all we have to do, and then
46:32
Speaker 1: let's protected forever. Like we have to worry. We can
46:34
Speaker 1: put that one aside. And I think like that, you know,
46:36
Speaker 1: and I think Bristol Bay. I mean we again we
46:39
Speaker 1: talked about these landscapes. I think finding those landscapes that
46:42
Speaker 1: are important to you, and you know I talked about
46:44
Speaker 1: earlier with the public lands package that was passed last year,
46:48
Speaker 1: like the minimals draw off and the Mentel Valley, the
46:51
Speaker 1: minimal draw outside of Yellowstone. I find those places that
46:54
Speaker 1: are key to you and turn your attention to that
46:56
Speaker 1: and be like a dog on a bone and like,
46:58
Speaker 1: don't let that thing go and um use your voice.
47:01
Speaker 1: And I think you know that I would, Saul. I
47:05
Speaker 1: suggest to anybody that's listening to this that I'm gonna
47:07
Speaker 1: suggest to like my North American board and the staff,
47:10
Speaker 1: that we really pivot into and really take this woementum
47:14
Speaker 1: and look at these you know, special landscapes um, because
47:18
Speaker 1: if they're defiled, we don't ever get that back. And
47:20
Speaker 1: you know, if land a water conservation fund didn't pass,
47:24
Speaker 1: will that be horrible in a lot of ways? Yes,
47:26
Speaker 1: But is that going to be you know, we're really
47:29
Speaker 1: gonna lose something in a lot of ways. You know,
47:31
Speaker 1: like this is a huge opportunity with that. But these landscapes, man,
47:35
Speaker 1: if if you if you lose these special places, you
47:38
Speaker 1: never ever get it back. And I don't I don't
47:40
Speaker 1: ever want to be you know, on a phone with
47:44
Speaker 1: you or in person talking about Man, remember that thing
47:48
Speaker 1: we tried to do on that landscape and it didn't
47:50
Speaker 1: work out, And now there's like this huge problem. Like
47:52
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to have that conversation, you know,
47:54
Speaker 1: I really don't. And so I think that's there's a
47:58
Speaker 1: long way to say, and like let's turn our into
48:00
Speaker 1: those special places. Yeah, I'm right there with you. And
48:03
Speaker 1: the Boundary Waters is a great a great example of
48:06
Speaker 1: a place that needs are our love intention After getting
48:09
Speaker 1: to see it last year, I'm I'm smitten just like
48:11
Speaker 1: you are. That place is special. So I love that word.
48:14
Speaker 1: By the way, smitten is one of my favorite words.
48:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. So so maybe you already
48:20
Speaker 1: answered my last question, but we got to revel a
48:24
Speaker 1: little bit in these places we love so much. What
48:27
Speaker 1: public land adventure of your own coming up in are
48:31
Speaker 1: you the most excited about? You know, I think I
48:35
Speaker 1: did just mention that I think the Boundary Waters and
48:37
Speaker 1: it's not for me, it's for my kids and my wife. Um,
48:41
Speaker 1: you know I I we just got back from Mexico
48:45
Speaker 1: and everybody listener is gonna think that all I do
48:46
Speaker 1: is just go travel and I'm gonna be awesome places,
48:48
Speaker 1: which was not the case at all. I mean, I
48:51
Speaker 1: got cell phone here and uh in typewriter hands. Um,
48:55
Speaker 1: but we're going to go into the Boundary Waters in August,
48:59
Speaker 1: and you know what I'm excited about is like, you know,
49:02
Speaker 1: showing the landscape to them that they heard me talk
49:05
Speaker 1: about a lot. But I can't wait for that first fish,
49:09
Speaker 1: for calling, or for Sitney to catch like like that
49:12
Speaker 1: that excitement that they feel when they do that, Like
49:16
Speaker 1: I'm living vicariously through them, like I'm a little kid again,
49:18
Speaker 1: and I just so I'm I'm man that trip. I'm
49:22
Speaker 1: like just chomping at the bit around. We just put
49:26
Speaker 1: it on the calendar, you know, in our lives, like
49:28
Speaker 1: if something goes on the calendar actually going to happen.
49:30
Speaker 1: You know, there's so much important soccer and school and
49:34
Speaker 1: like whatever. You know, there's all in my travel, there's
49:36
Speaker 1: all these things. But once we bought it out on
49:38
Speaker 1: the calendar, we're gonna do it. So that's what I'm
49:40
Speaker 1: most excited about, is going up to the Bounderwater. That's awesome.
49:43
Speaker 1: That's definitely on my list. Once the boys get old enough,
49:47
Speaker 1: I definitely want to take them out there too. That
49:48
Speaker 1: was the one of the first things me and my
49:49
Speaker 1: buddies were talking about while we were there last fall, was, oh,
49:53
Speaker 1: we gotta get back with the family some day, so
49:56
Speaker 1: pretty special place. Well, can you do me one more favorite,
49:59
Speaker 1: can give us that phone number one last time for
50:02
Speaker 1: how people can call their senators to make the g
50:06
Speaker 1: A O Act, the Great American Outdoors Act Reality. What
50:09
Speaker 1: was that? Absolutely So it's two oh two to two
50:14
Speaker 1: four three one two one, and then you're gonna get
50:17
Speaker 1: a switchboard and all you need to do it just
50:19
Speaker 1: tell them where you're from and then ask them to
50:21
Speaker 1: connect you to your senator. And you'll have to make
50:24
Speaker 1: two phone calls because you can't just you can't just
50:26
Speaker 1: pass them through on both. But like that's all you
50:29
Speaker 1: have to do, ask them, uh, you know, to pass
50:33
Speaker 1: this bill as soon as possible. Perfect, all right, Land, Well,
50:36
Speaker 1: thank you for keeping us informed, thanks for helping us
50:38
Speaker 1: stay engaged, and uh, I'm gonna keep on pulling you
50:41
Speaker 1: on here once a year for good news. Okay, Well,
50:45
Speaker 1: let's uh let's make a point that like like again
50:47
Speaker 1: that we're getting that done right, So I would love
50:49
Speaker 1: if you and I are getting on the phone once
50:51
Speaker 1: a year to celebrate. That's a pretty cool thing, but
50:53
Speaker 1: I think we should do it, alright. Thank you for
50:56
Speaker 1: the time. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Mark,
50:59
Speaker 1: and that's gonna do it for us today. Thanks for
51:02
Speaker 1: joining in, thanks for listening. Make sure you call, you email,
51:07
Speaker 1: you tweet, you Facebook, you go knock on the doors
51:10
Speaker 1: of your senators, and make the Great American Outdoors Act
51:13
Speaker 1: a reality. We've got the power, we've got their ear.
51:17
Speaker 1: Let's just make it happen. So until next time, thank you,
51:22
Speaker 1: and stay wired to hunt.