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Reel Talk with Rich: Tim Brando · Reel Talk with Rich: Stories in Sportscasting

• Rich: Welcome to the latest edition of Reel Talk with Rich Stories in Sportscasting. And I stress the word stories for this particular episode because this guest has more than just about anybody in our business. I'm talking about the living legend, Tim Brando. My conversation with him was a couple of years in the making. He and I first met when we were on the same flight to Cincinnati. He was covering Xavier basketball. I was covering Cincinnati basketball. I saw him on the plane when we got off the plane. I introduced myself, and that was a couple of years ago, and we've built a friendship since then. But I'm honored that he would come on this podcast and share his story, which is four decades in the making. But his story really begins as a child in Louisiana. He's a family man through and through. And you'll hear him talk about his wife. You'll hear him talk about. His dad, who was a major influence on his career. But the stories that Tim could tell could fill an entire sports casting encyclopedia. He's worked with the best. He's had multiple career paths, or as he calls them, reinventions. And he's got great stories and pearls of wisdom along the way. Can't wait for you to hear this episode with Tim. So without further ado, here's Reel talk. With Tim Brando. Tim Brando, or as now I get to affectionately refer to you as Timmy B, is in the house. Great to see you, my friend. tim: Good to be with you, Rich. And to see you not in an airport is also Rich: Yeah. tim: a real also a real perk. Rich: That's right. That's right. I I told that story as I was introducing you, how we first tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: came to meet face to face. But it goes without saying I'm not gonna sit here and embarrass you with platitudes, but I've been a fan of yours for decades now. You're one of the voices of my sports casting life. So it it's a real treat to spend some quality time digging into something that you and I both have such a deep affection for. So Let's start with not necessarily the end because I know you've got a lot tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: more holes to play like I do, but how tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: does someone like you survive and thrive as long as you have in sports casting, Tim? tim: You have to I I really believe you need to convey it's a great cr question, Rich, because there aren't many guys that are my age that are still doing this, and it's something that I am I'm really grateful for and thank the Lord above every day. I joked with Brad Nestler a few years ago. We ran into each other when I was putting Raycom Sports off the air at the 2019 ACC tournament. Brad was invited back along with all the older the other veterans of Of ACC tournaments with Raycom. But I was joking with Brad. I said, Well, it looks like we're the new old guys. And that's true. It's kind of a new old thing. And I think it's really Brad that's the only one that's my age that's still doing it at this level, at the network level. And I think we were tutored a little bit by them about how you have to embrace it. You know, Raft is also a guy that we can turn to as a sounding board because he's he's 12 years older than everybody. And yet, you know, Rich: Ha ha ha. tim: you wouldn't know it. Raft, I think, is 82 now. so It's it's something I'm really grateful for, but I think that the to answer your question specifically, you have to love it and you have to convey to those that are deciding who gets to do it how much you really do love it. I don't think that ever changes. when you're young, you have to outwork people. No matter how talented you are, you have to outwork people to to get where you want to go. And I think I did that. But when you get a little bit older and you've proven yourself some. You can't relax. You have to let people know that you know you're only as good as your last show. And that the reason you're working as hard as you are is because you want to make sure that those people, and it's only a precious few that determine who works and who doesn't. you know, these things can go wild with people, you know, criticizing, but it really doesn't matter what any of them say. It matters what a handful of people at the company you're working for. believe and that determines whether you get to work or not. as long as they know that you love this business, not just the sports you're calling, not just the job, but that that you really love the business. And the business doesn't always love you back. Sometimes it's hard to love the business because the business part is what sucks many, many times. And you have to get past that mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I've probably gone through at least three major reinventions to my career that that are noteworthy. And each time I think that I was able to get over the hump because I checked so many different boxes that they weren't gonna let me go a year without working. when I was in the second phase of my contract at ESPN. I left on my own accord because I wanted to bring my family to we to Louisiana. the great Kurt Gowdy, he said, Hey Tim, you know, you love this, you wanna have it all, right? You want to have a picket fence, kids, all that. He said, You when you when you the opportunity presents itself and you've got a chance to to move her where she's happy, do it because the more successful you become, you know, the more gone you're gonna be. So while you're gone, she needs to be happy. You know, she needs to be you're coming home for laundry. So make sure she's with the people that love her and she loves back. So that's what I did. And I never looked back. But each time that I made those moves, I did it and I moved up in my own mind. I was getting better. I was not stagnant, I was improving. And my goal was to get to a three letter network, to get to ABC, CBS, or NBC before I was 40. And lo and behold, in 96, there I was calling my first NCAA tournament. and so I got there before I was before I was 40, after starting a ESPN and at 29 before I was 30. So you know, early on I hit all the goals that I had in mind, but I probably was in too big of a hurry a few times. I probably cost myself some, but in my mind It was what I needed to do to have the the whole thing, to have the domicile and the career. I I needed Rich: Mm-hmm. tim: both. I wasn't a guy that could sell himself solely to the business. I needed to have a life at home. And I wanted a a wife and kids and all of that, all that comes with that. And not everybody takes that route, you know. So That I think that was the key for me was to have the people that I worked with and for realize how much I really did love what I do. And I and I think that it because it can't be it's like preparation time. Richie, I'm sure you get this. How much time do you spend on this? How much time Rich: Right. tim: do you spend on that I tell these young broadcasters that I mentor, it's a way of life. You can't just start cramming for a telecast without having lived it. You need to be in touch with everything that is going on with college basketball, college football, the NFL, MLB, whatever it is you're covering. And I I think it's been a a career well well lived and and worked. And I think now at this stage of my career, I'm able to just be grateful and enjoy the craft for what the craft is. I'm there, I'm done, that's the last deal, and I'm chasing grandbabies and golf balls for four and Rich: Man. tim: a half months. And and that recharges my battery so that when Toe meets leather to start the college football season, I am fired up. Rich: you are your story is sports casting history. You you dropped so many names just conversationally that people would only dream of. But there's one name that I want to go back to, and you touched on it briefly, tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: and I know it means the world to you because you've already tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: communicated so eloquently how much family means to you. And that name tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: is a name that maybe not a lot of listeners would be. as familiar with as the Keith Jacksons tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: and the Dick Enbergs of the world. But that name's Hub Brando. Tell us what tim: Yeah. Rich: Hub Brando means to you. tim: Well, the most talented man I ever knew. He just happened to be my dad. and he i in a lot of ways my path was going to be scattered because his was. Okay. He could do a lot of different things on television. he had three live television shows on the air in the fifties. And sixties. And I was not born until fifty-six. So I didn't know about a lot of it until I was about four or five years old. He also had a band, It was dancing, it was comedy, it was doing bits with Rich: And you played drums for him, didn't you? tim: I played the drums and I sang with my dad, wearing a tuxedo, and following him around, singing Me and My Shadow and You're Too Old to Cut the Mustard anymore. And you know, he he made my older sister and I be a part of it. He wanted everybody in the family to be involved, connected. But he was all over the place and running an ad advertising agency. And doing these shows after he'd helped put the first television station on the air in Shreveport, where I'm from. And so I grew up watching him, you know, in the mornings, you know, shaving, putting some old spice on, throwing a little makeup around him because he had to go in and and do his TV show, which was a morning kitty show called Tops for Toys. so I watched him do that, and then I watched him do the Brando show. On Sunday evenings, which was a variety show with a band with music, Hub Brando and the Dreamers. The name of the group was Hub Brando and the Dreamers. And when Axe would come into town for the Louisiana Hayride in those days, which was still around. He was sort of like the local Dick Clark on bandstand. Okay. So I watched him do all this stuff. And but he was while he was when he came but came back from World War Two, he was also a sports writer. So he was into sports too. He had his hand in everything. Wrote, produced, performed, and he called himself old hub, and he only lived a to be fifty eight. So he never really got old. But yeah, I yeah. Rich: Hmm. A jack of all trades, and and it sounds like he was a master of a number of them as well. tim: Yeah, he was. So long story short, I maintained a great relationship with him. And as time wore on, he he sort of lived vicariously through me. And he knew, but he knew, he told me, you know, specificity is going to be the key with you, Tim. And an old radio buddy of his owned a station and he lost his play by play guy for high school football. This was in the fall of nineteen seventy one. I was fourteen. and he came to my dad's hotel and he said, Hub, are you in town during the fall? Are you going to be around? And he said, Yeah, yeah. Well I just lost my play by play guy for Neville High School football. You know, they're a powerhouse in the state. They won a bunch of state championships. And we if you could help me out, I'd really appreciate it. My dad said, I'd be happy to if you let me pick my second banana, if you let me bring my Rich: Ha ha. tim: my my color guy. He said, Okay, he had no idea it was going to be his 14-year-old son. So every Friday at school, I stopped playing football in the eighth grade, because in the ninth grade I had a chance to do high school football with my dad on the radio in Monroe. So each Friday he came and talked to my principal. During the fall, I would check out of school at noon. My mom would drop me off at the Continental Trailways bus stop station and I would take the bus to Monroe to meet my dad to go call a football game on Friday nights. And that's how this really all started. So I had the ultimate head start because of him. and I've still got, you know, some of the cassette tapes from it and The promo was I'm old hub and I'm young Tim. We're calling Neville Football, nineteen seventy one. And that's how that's how it all started for me. Rich: I read an article, Tim, when you decided what you wanted to do, as you just told us, one of tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: your dad's pieces of advice was get the south out of your mouth. Is that true? tim: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, that went on constantly in my home. While he was there, if I said if I said turn can we can can we turn the light on? He'd say, Son, you don't own that light. So I don't know what you're talking about. Now, do you want me to turn it on? I thought, well, that's what I mean. He said, well, well, then say what you mean. Own is not on. And he said, let me tell you something. He said, you want to be like Kirk Gowdy, right? And I was like, yeah, I sure do. He said, well, you can't sound like a hick and be on national television. Now I'm proud of the South. And he was very proud of the South. But but he admitted readily that in order to be successful as a speaker, as a leader, just in regardless of what business you're in, you need to be able to communicate and be understood by everyone. And he said, and especially if you're planning on working outside the South, if you want to be seen by people in the Midwest and the Northeast. He if I said I don't get it, he would like, get what get what? It's Rich: Ha ha ha. tim: it's get, you know, so and fur for four. If I said f for what? He'd say fur, what's that? That's a tree. We get that at Christmas. It was just Rich: Ha. tim: it it was on it was never ending. It was never ending. So he was bullish on phonetics before I even knew what you know phonics was. I I mean he just Rich: Yeah. tim: was bullish on it. And so I I followed that all the way through. And as as it related to voice control, that really came through radio. And he said, now listen, if you get an opportunity to be a disc jockey, you get the a chance to be a rock and roll disc jockey. Remember when you're talking over the song, the lip of the song, before you hit a post and the vocal begins, Rich: Mm-hmm. tim: that your vo your voice needs to be at a decibel level. That is heard just over the song. You don't want to be shouting and cause the meter to peg into the red. You want it to be just one level above the the pounding sounds of that drum and percussion. It's a little bit like singing, Tim. And I was a singer, so I could identify with that. and that really helped me a lot. You know, don't yell, don't scream, but just take it up a level. And if you start down here, hi again, everybody, I'm Tim Brando. If you start here and you begin to get nervous because you're calling a game for the first time, your voice is naturally going to go higher. So get your register as low as you can get it before it takes off. Those were things that, you know, at places like Syracuse and and Missouri and Tennessee, great broadcast journalism schools across the country. I was getting that kind of an education at home, you know, about the things that you need to do to sound the way you need to sound so that people will accept you all across the board. But I think voice inflection, voice control, understanding octaves and and and how to be on top of a game like your voice goes up with a call. It comes back down when you're coming out of the break. And you begin that register when you start back up by lowering that register and then let it go up as the play and the crowd lets it lets it go. I think that's the The biggest key. No one wants to be shouted at. Rich: I could relate in just a small way because my first job in television was in Great Falls, Montana. I didn't even know there was a tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: Great Falls, Montana. But my first sports cast, I was sitting next to a lifelong Great Falls native who was the weatherman there for a hundred years. And after I finished, he said, Kid, you're gonna go far in this business, but just one piece of advice. It's tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: tournament, not tournament. And I never tim: Tournament, not tournament, yeah. Rich: forgot that. I've never said tournament ever since then. tim: You'll get a kick out of it. You'll get a guy you'll get a kick out of this. Rich: Yeah. tim: I never said tournament either until I got to the Big East. Okay? Rich: Right. tim: I did say tournament when I got to the Big East. And I and Rich: There you could get away with it. I I asked this question of everyone who I have a conversation with about this, but with you in particular, I am as excited as I've been to hear your answer to this because you tim: Okay. Rich: have as wide a bandwidth to choose from as anyone I've spoken to. Tim Brando, tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: what is your most memorable event? That you've ever called. tim: The most memorable event that I've ever called was the 98 regional finals with Al Maguire. Rich: Mm. tim: Al, you know, I'd worked with Vital, I'd worked with Packer. But when I got the assignment for the NCAAs in '98, I was again the c the calendar was very good to me. Now you're you gotta remember. to do a regional final, meaning there's only four of you still working, Rich: Right. tim: and I'm 42 at this time in my prime, and I'm thinking. You know, I'm still wondering if I'm ever gonna have an assignment where I think, okay, I've made it. I have made it. And that was probably the one And I got the I got the hosting role that same that same year for College football. We had these two unbelievable games, great matchups. Valparaiso had never made it to the Sweet Sixteen. Homer Drew's team had that shot that everybody sees with Rich: Against Ole Miss tim: his son. His son hit against Ole Miss in the second round, in the first round, and then they went and beat Florida State in second. Valparaiso in the Sweet 16 playing Rhode Island, a ninth seed with Jim Harrick coaching. And Kentucky and UCLA are on the air. Now, in those days, there was no Turner, so all the games weren't, you know, it was regionalized. So we're going to only about 20% of the country for this regional final. Kentucky and UCLA is going to like 80%. Packers on the air with Nantz right? And their game is a blowout. so right as we're about to come on the air, Al's with me, and my producer Jim Ricoff, who's still doing the NFL on CBS to this day, Jim says, Brando, this is what New York wants. They want you to ask Al. What it would mean if a 13 seed like Valpo could make it to the Elite Eight. This has never happened. It would be the first time a 13 seed ever got to the final eight. So I said, okay. So Al, here's this. They hit me on all call. So Al's like, hmm, it was like he was in a seance. He's doing Rich: Ha ha. tim: this. And he always did this with his hands. And now he's he he begins to stand up, okay? Everybody on press row is looking at him like, what is going on? Is Al having a a breakdown? What's going on here? I finally sit him down next to me And like Tim Brando, Al Maguire, coach. America wants to know, that's joined us here at halftime. What would it mean if Valpro were able to make it to the Elite Eight tonight? And Al paused and he said, Timmy D, it would be a Norman Rockwell painting. Now, who the hell else would come up with that? Who else would Rich: Amazing. tim: come up with that? It would be perfect. But if Valpo were able to do it, it would be perfect. It would be the essence. You couldn't go to the Sistine Chapel and find a better art form than this art form Rich: Ha ha. tim: that Valpo's. Jeez, it was just unreal. And I was as my face kind of set it all as I was watching him. But then I thought to myself, listen, this is gonna be great. And the game did come down to the wire. And then we had an unbelievable six-point lead for Rhode Island. They Rhode Island won it. The regional final comes up, and we've got a standalone game. The winner goes to the Final Four. Stanford comes from six down to win the game on a steal by Arthur Lee. gets the ball to Mark Madsen. The mad dog slams it down, gives it one of these, and they come from behind to win it. And the next thing I know, Greg Gumble is throwing it to me. The late great Greg Gumble and Al is dancing with the Stanford tree and the team at midcourt in front of me. And I'm like, okay, this is heaven. This is Rich: Yeah. tim: absolute heaven. This is everything I ever wanted when I got into this business, that this was this was hit. I've been in other situations that are incredibly memorable, like a tornado hitting the dome in Georgia in 2008, which was unreal. Rich: Yeah. tim: But the the most memorable for me has got to be with Al. You know, they're Rich: Yeah. tim: making a movie about him. This is the 50th anniversary. This basketball season is the 50th anniversary of his national championship. in nineteen seventy seven in a feature film. Rich: Seventy seven, right? tim: they're making a feature film about it and I've met the producers and it's gonna be pretty cool. Rich: I knew your story was going to be good. It exceeded expectations, Timmy B one thing that I've always found fascinating about your career, you talk about reinventions. I I talk about versatility. you had a long-standing tim: Yeah. Yeah. Rich: radio show. You've done studio work at the highest levels, now continuing to do play-by-play at network level. and tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: yet. It doesn't seem, at least to me, that it was tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: until your later years of sports casting that you felt, I don't know if incomfortable is the right word, maybe empowered is the right word, to be outspoken. So many people are afraid to voice their opinion and be outspoken for fear of retribution, whatever that may be. Where does that come from for you? tim: Well, part of that now I think probably is age, okay, that there's a l certain level of wisdom. I I I I pick my spots now. I don't just arbitrarily say things. I think I was always more opinionated than the average play-by-play guy would be. sometimes it was, in my opinion, forced on me if I happen to be working with an analyst. That was not going to be as critical as I felt the broadcast needed it to be. And through the years, when you're working with different guys, you know, they want to survive too. And sometimes they're going to, you know, be a little wishy-washy about, well, i it could have been a foul, it might not have been a foul. No, no, no. We need to sp in broadcasting. This is one of the things that I learned very early on. from some of the people that came before us when it came to particular issues, for instance, in a game. Okay. I will always remember Gowdy saying to me, don't ever say maybe or could go this way or could. Speak in absolute. Say what you see. Above all else, say what you see. And if what you see is wrong, you gotta say it. I think that's important to do. And an experienced play-by-play guy that knows that is gonna say it. Now if he doesn't say it and the experienced analyst sees it and believe me I've worked with Packer and I've worked with Al and you can't do that. So sometimes you might be working with a younger guy that doesn't want to go there. So it's the onus is on you to do it. And I've always felt that that's the job of the play by play guy because ultimately the producer is in charge of the totality of the broadcast. But in terms of the presentation of the game, the play by play guy is the anchor of the show. You're supposed to make the analyst better. but if the analyst is not capable or doesn't feel comfortable speaking in absolutes that something's wrong, then you gotta do it. And you're not showing him up by doing it. You're simply saying what you saw. That's all you're doing. You're saying what you saw. And there's a way to do that without being obnoxious. but I think because I did all those radio shows, these opinion based shows, I I've I felt comfortable being somewhat opinionated. on my play by play calls as a result of that. But you can't overdo it. You g the game's gotta breathe some. You know, the game needs to breathe. You can't have constant dialogue in a game. I think what we' what we're seeing happening now, and you work with a lot of young people, what we're seeing is I wanna be, instead of the next Curt Gowdy that I wanted to be, we're seeing I want to be the next Pat McAfee. I want to be the next Stephen A. Smith. And man, man, is that limiting yourself, in my view. But I just think that the craft itself of play-by-play has been really de-emphasized and dissed nationally. I I really believe that. And watered down to some extent also by an industry that decided, well, We spend all these money, all this money on rights fees. So just to put the games on the air, we're gonna give them minimal cameras, minimal videotape machines, and those guys will just have to make it work. They'll just have to find a way to make it work. While they're watch while while two or three million people are watching. Yet we will spend gazillions of dollars for three cameramen and maybe four. For on camera people on talent. Because we're not paying a rights fee, we can pour all of these amenities into those shows. And hardly anyone's watching. And I believe the only reason they do it is because the networks now want to get this. They want to get hits on social media. This is about attracting attention and getting clickbaits. And I think that our industry now is is a a little bit polluted with knowing the difference between the two. You Rich: Mm. tim: know? Call me old school on that if you want. but that's the way I feel. And I and I I hate to see I hate to see young people Rich: I I call you old school and I mean it as a compliment. I I am the same way. tim: I hate to see young people thinking, I can go do that, as opposed to what does it take to be really good Rich: Well, let's let's finish on this note. I was going to ask you what your best advice is to young sportscasters, but that feels a little hollow. Instead, hearing tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: all these amazing stories, Tim, I would love to tim: Mm-hmm. Rich: know one pearl of wisdom that Curt Gowdy shared with you that is still relevant today that you would share with the next generation. tim: yeah, yeah, that's great. nice on your part there. He was telling me at that time something that would be an evergreen pearl of wisdom that can be used by every young sportscaster today, He said, He said, Whatever you do, don't. Take a job in a bigger market to do local sports. Don't go to Louisville. Don't leave Baton Rouge for Boston, even Boston or Detroit or New York. Don't do it because they wouldn't give you a contract that would allow you to call games and do the six and 10 or the 6 and 11. So you're getting all the preparatory work that you need to get a major network job in cable. Where you can do both. That's what you need to do. That was his advice to me you can be a young, talented broadcaster. But sometimes with the volume of people ahead of you, you're thinking, Damn, how much long I mean, sometimes you gotta break away, do something on your own to create more buzz around your career outside of just working at ESPN. Just to say you're doing a game, no nothing listen, it's the it's an unbelievable place. I wouldn't be where I am today without ESPN. I certainly honor my history there. I do. But that's That's not the only, the only golden goose to a career. I mean, Rich: Mm-hmm. tim: there's other ways of getting there. You gotta make sure that you're looking at different avenues 90% of what ends the careers of broadcasters is not what happens on the air. It's what goes on in the business off the air. How well do you handle and navigate your way through all of that? Rich: Mm-hmm. tim: And at times I've I've gotten in my own way. I've been my own worst enemy, but I've also learned from those mistakes. Okay. I've learned from those mistakes. And in many ways, my Most recent reinvention when I suddenly to a lot of people left CBS and went to Fox. That was about eight or nine months of total purgatory for me, not knowing what might happen. I wanted to work at Fox. And finally at the 11th hour, the call came and And you'll get a kick out of this. One last thing, I'll close with this. The question came to me from the executive producer. So, Tim, where do you see yourself in 10 years? This is in Rich: What? tim: 2000. This is in 2014, right? And I said, I said, Well, honestly, I said I've I've worked with so many great people through the years. The guy that I think I learned the most from was Vern Lundquist because Vern was never the number one guy. Verne handled every piece of bad news he ever got with aplomb He always handled it beautifully, like old man river. He just kept Rich: Mm-hmm. tim: on rolling, you know. And I didn't always handle bad news well. Anyway, after that nine month period of not knowing, the hook came when the question was asked, Tim, where do you see yourself in 10 years? And I said, I learned more from Vern than anyone. And I said, I'm looking around here. I see Joe Buck. I see this young youngster, Joe Davis, you just brought in, Gus Johnson, who I helped w when he got started. But what you don't have for your college portfolio is a guy with 30 years experience that can do as many things as I can do, and I can help as many young analysts and young producers and directors. And I'm at that stage of my career. So I just want to be able to do what I love and help other people. So I feel like that's what Vern did for me. And I guess what I'm saying is, let me be your Vern. So that's kind of the theme to my existence now there. So You know, whenever they need the old left-hander to come out of the bullpen and help out, you know, I'm there Rich: Right. tim: because I love because I love it. And the role is it's it's not about the role I have or the stature or status in the business. It's about it's about being grateful to see the red light come on and to think of my father's spirit. When I see that red light, old hub is watching me and I and I visualize that red light as being, you know, the the ghost of old hub. Who got Tim Brando rolling in this crazy ass business? So I want to do that for as long as I can and to help others. Rich: Well, couldn't think of a better way to end this conversation. I tim: Yeah. Rich: am proud to call you a friend and a colleague now, Tim. Hopefully the next time we meet, it's not just passing by in an airport. tim: You got it. You got it, buddy. Thank you, Rich. Rich: All right. Thanks for the time, Tim. Man, how do you wrap up concisely a conversation with someone like that? I mean, he has worked with some of the best because he is one of the best. He is a lifer in the most complimentary way of any sportscaster I've ever come across. 40 years and still so relevant in the business. You can catch Tim every weekend calling college football on Fox Sports and then. Into the college basketball season as well. But my three biggest takeaways from my real talk with Tim Brando, number one, longevity equals reinvention. He used the word reinvention a couple of times in the conversation, talking about his career. Again, nationally, he started at ESPN, moved to CBS, and now at the third act of his career, he's with Fox Sports. So One thing I learned from Tim is you have to embrace those changes. You have to embrace the opportunities that come your way because it's not always going to work for you. You have to make it work for you. And instead of looking at them as roadblocks, you look at them as opportunities. In sports casting. At least Tim was able to do that. Biggest takeaway number two from my conversation with Tim Brando family is a focus with him, and it should be with you. I always talk about this with young sportscasters who I mentor. This is a career that is fraught with sacrifice. And a lot of those sacrifices fall on your family. You're making sacrifices by missing out on. Birthdays and holidays and nights and weekends, but there are other people who are going through that along with you. There's spouses and girlfriends and boyfriends and children who wish you were there just like you wish you were with them. But if you focus on family as as much as you focus on your career, you're gonna find that that sacrifice that's so baked into our industry really. Comes from a strong support system that allows you to make those sacrifices. And when you have that support, It's going to allow you to survive and thrive. And Tim certainly has thrived. the third biggest takeaway that I had with my conversation with Tim Brando go against the grain. Tim has now become really outspoken, and he's not afraid to share his opinion. Does that sound familiar? Tim Brando was hot takes on TV. Before there were hot takes on TV. And he's not afraid to share his opinion on social media, just like he wasn't afraid to share his opinion when he was hosting a national radio show. And you have to bet on yourself and go in a different direction. Tim Brando has made a 40-year career about going against the grain. And he has succeeded every stop along the way. And it's a great inspiration to all of us that sometimes the most popular decisions and the most popular opinions aren't always the right ones for us. Trust yourself and go with your gut when you go against the grain. Those were my three biggest takeaways from my conversation with Tim Brando. As always, I am glad that you tuned in and listened to this one. subscribe to this podcast and tell your friends to do the same thing. Give us a five-star review so people know that they should check it out. And also write a review if you have some time too. Let us know what you think, whether it's good, bad, or indifferent. Don't forget. We have a YouTube channel as well for this podcast. It's YouTube.com slash Rich Hollenberg B I B T. Thank you so much again for being part of the Reel Talk with Rich Stories and Sportscasting Podcast Experience. We'll see you next time.