Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 9) (5/12/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 9) (5/12/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
• 0:06
  back in to the interview with the R and D
• 0:09
  officer from MCC with the OIG inspectors. Question, I have
• 0:17
  a few more questions, a few more, but we can
• 0:19
  come back. Some of the questions are going to be
• 0:21
  redundant because we asked the questions, so I just got
• 0:25
  to cover it. So dno why Reyes was removed from
• 0:29
  the MCC. Answer? Is that the guy that went out
• 0:32
  to court? Question? Yeah, answer, I would only know that
• 0:35
  because he went to court. But looking at the document,
• 0:38
  off the top of my head, I wouldn't be able
• 0:40
  to recall off the top of my head why he
• 0:42
  was removed. But I just know that he went out
• 0:44
  to court. Question were you ever instructed on what actions
• 0:48
  to take? The other investigator jumps in, Well, let's follow
• 0:52
  up with that. Looking at the lieutenant's log? Does that
• 0:55
  tell you something different? With the lieutenant's log and the
• 0:57
  BP thirty eight answer? I mean the PP thirty eight question?
• 1:02
  Is it PP? Answer? Uh? Huh? Question? All right? I
• 1:06
  thought it was like the Bureau of Prisons like PP.
• 1:09
  So it's PP PP thirty eight. What does the PP
• 1:12
  stand for? Answer it's a century function. I don't know.
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  Can you repeat your question again? Answer so, looking at
• 1:20
  it where it says that mister rayis left at A
• 1:23
  thirty eight and then as well as with the document
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  the R and D uses to keep people out the
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  PP thirty eight, Does that tell you why you would
• 1:31
  have left? Answer no, because this does not necessarily tell you.
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  It just tells you that he was removed out of
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  the institution. Question okay, answer so, I mean you just
• 1:43
  know that he's gone. You don't know why he's gone.
• 1:45
  You just know that he left. And the same thing
• 1:47
  with that, you just you don't know why. You just
• 1:49
  know he left. Question Okay, you're talking about the PP
• 1:53
  thirty eight right? Answer yeah. Question how would the institution
• 1:57
  know if Reyes was coming back from court? Answer? R
• 2:01
  and D would know because he would come back with
• 2:03
  the marshals and we would key him back in and
• 2:06
  we would send him back to his unit. Question now
• 2:09
  if he wasn't now that he wasn't coming back, is
• 2:12
  there any other notification that comes up throughout the day
• 2:15
  through R and D that he's not coming back? Answer
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  it would be just whatever dispositions that the marshals give us.
• 2:22
  Provide us with question when does that disposition come? Answer
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  that just depends. Sometimes we get it right away. Sometimes
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  they forget and we got to pre remove the inmate
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  out because we don't have nothing and we know that
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  he went with the marshals. But sometimes we get it
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  as soon as possible, and sometimes we don't get it
• 2:42
  until the next day. Question so there's a disposition form
• 2:46
  that comes in afterward? Answer? Uh huh. Question what is it?
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  What does the form look like? What does it state
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  on it? Answer, it's just the United States Marshals form,
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  and it'll say disposition of It'll be time, sir. Maybe
• 3:00
  the judge released somebody on recognissance, just whatever the judge
• 3:04
  just might the judge might have dismissed the case. Just
• 3:07
  whatever happened at court is what will be. It might
• 3:11
  be a bellbond, might be a release to probation. Question
• 3:16
  and where's that form kept? Answer it would be in
• 3:19
  the inmates folder. Question do you recall seeing any forms
• 3:22
  for disposition forms for inmate rais? Answer? I don't remember.
• 3:26
  Question And what's done with that information once it's received?
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  Answer we retain it in the inmates folder and we
• 3:33
  keep the inmate out she gets cut off by the investigator.
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  Or is the information disseminated throughout or no? Answer? Do
• 3:44
  we give control those No, we don't give control a copy.
• 3:47
  I don't think we give control a copy of the
• 3:48
  disposition form because we don't give them a copy of it. Question.
• 3:53
  So this circles back to what we talked about before.
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  So once you find out an inmate is definitively not
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  coming back, you do not contact anyone to say this
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  guy didn't come back. Answer. We key them out, and
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  normally the control officer, if you have a good count
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  an assignment officer and he's paying attention, he'll say, oh,
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  you guys keyed one out. We'll say, yeah, he's not
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  coming back. He got time served or the marshals took
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  him and he's not coming back. Question the r and
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  D doesn't proactively provide that information. Answer no, because they're
• 4:24
  supposed to automatically be checking the computer like a checks
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  and balance. So it's something that's automatic. When we have
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  inmates going out to court, we have a receipt that
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  we give to the marshal and a copy also goes
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  downstairs to the control center as well. So the control
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  has a copy of every move we do an R
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  and D, so they got a copy of that. Question.
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  Can you recall any situation where an inmate leaves for
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  court an R and D is notified, Hey listen, the
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  inmate's not coming back. Where R and D actually called
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  the unit to let them know, hey, he's not coming back. Answer, yeah,
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  we have we have question. Is that because they requested
• 5:02
  to be notified or is it because that's something that
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  R and D normally does? Answer? No, we might have.
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  It might have been the inmate had property upstairs and
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  we might need him to secure the inmates property and
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  bring it down. So that's normally sometimes why we might
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  notify the unit officer because sometimes the inmate they'll call
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  back to the gel and say, oh, they released me,
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  I got my property upstairs, and will call upstairs to
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  the unit officer and say, hey, inmates so and so
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  is not coming back, can you secure his property? Question? Okay,
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  before he left for the day on August ninth, do
• 5:36
  you recall talking to Necos about reyis leaving? Answer? I
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  don't recall that, No, question. I know we covered this
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  as part of previous conversation. So I'm going to go
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  through it quick. On August tenth, when you came on shift,
• 5:50
  which counts were you involved in? Answer? I didn't take
• 5:53
  the counts. I was number one in control center, so
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  my number two person takes the counts. Question number two?
• 6:00
  Who was the number two? Do you recall? Answer? Was
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  it redacted? Question? You can just look at the form
• 6:06
  for the daily assignment. Just look at the tenth. It's
• 6:10
  going to be the tenth redacted? Answer? He was in
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  control center with me. Question okay, And do you recall
• 6:18
  redacted taking the midnight count? Answer? I believe she came
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  and took the midnight count. Question were you present for it? Answer?
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  I was in control center, but I wasn't focused on
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  them taking the count. I was focused on getting my
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  equipment account for my equipment. Question. Do you recall any
• 6:36
  issues with the count? Answer? Not that I know of,
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  Not that I recall. Question And do you recall who
• 6:41
  called in the count from the shoe Answer? Not that
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  I recall. Question what about the three am and the
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  five am? Answer? I know one of them called the
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  count in because that's the only way we can clear account.
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  Question okay, answer, so I don't remember who called, but
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  I know somebody did call in the count. Question do
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  you recall during the middle of the count where dacted
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  calling the shoe having conversations with the co in there. Answer?
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  I don't know, because a lot of times they'll call
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  downstairs when they're calling in the count, and she'll have
• 7:12
  a short conversation with the officers, So I can't say
• 7:14
  whether she called them or they called her. I don't know.
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  Question do you recall if there was a second count
• 7:20
  slip sent up for the shoe for the midnight count? Answer? No,
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  I can't recall. I don't know. Question can CEOs just
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  call in the previous number or do they have to
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  physically do the count? Answer? They have to do the count.
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  Question why answer you're counting for living, breathing bodies. Question
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  Once the counts are done, do the CEOs have to
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  notify you? Answer They're supposed to call the control center
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  and call in their count. They call the control two,
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  which is six four sixty eight, and they call it in
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  their count. Question did the CEOs fill out any paperwork
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  for the count? Answer? Account slip, account slip question I
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  think we pretty much, which covered a lot of the
• 8:00
  other questions. Do you have anything on that topic. The
• 8:03
  other investigator jumps in. Who all has access to the
• 8:06
  update the E one document? Answer? Who all has access
• 8:10
  to updateate the control center officers? Question when you say officer,
• 8:15
  just the control center officers is what you mean? Answer?
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  Whoever works in control. But a lot of the time
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  most of the officers were shifted around work in control.
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  So primarily if you work the control center, as counts
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  an assignment's officer, you had access to printing out the
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  E one All the lieutenants have access, R and D
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  have access, But we don't have access to that no more.
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  Question But at that point did you guys have access?
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  Answer yeah, because you have to prepare this for the
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  count So yeah, but we don't have access anymore. Question
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  so control officers, lieutenants, anyone else? Answer R and D. Question,
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  and that anyone who has worked in control at that
• 8:55
  time at least they maintained the access for a certain
• 8:57
  amount of period afterward. Answer yeah. Question do you know
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  how long that period of time was at that point? Answer?
• 9:04
  I don't think. If you had access to it, you
• 9:07
  just add access to it. Question so given access once
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  you got it until they were revoked? Answer right? Question okay,
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  answer I don't think it was. Yeah, it was no
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  time frame that I know of. Question you have any
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  other questions on that? When you were in are you
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  aware that there were cameras inside the MCC on August
• 9:28
  ninth and tenth? Answer? Uh huh. Question when you were
• 9:31
  in control, did you have access to see the cameras? Answer? Yeah,
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  the camera in the it's like a little TV screen
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  with little individual boxes of different areas of the institution.
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  Question could you see the shoe in there? Answer? No,
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  you could only see over a balcony looking down to
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  the MP and it was like far off. So it's
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  like the camera is up on a balcony and just
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  looking all the way down over there. You don't really
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  you can't really see nothing. Question was a clear answer No,
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  It's like if you see you might have seen a
• 10:03
  body move here and there, but you can't really tell.
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  You couldn't really tell. It wasn't clear. No. Question did
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  you ever hear that the cameras are not working offline
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  or not recording? Answer all the time? Question was their
• 10:17
  complaints filed told to anybody specific the captain the lieutenant? Answer?
• 10:22
  I believe notifications were made, like especially if we're in
• 10:26
  the control center. We would call the contact and say, hey,
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  this camera might have went out. So yeah, notifications were made.
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  Question and did they fix it immediately? Answer? At this time, No,
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  things weren't getting fixed immediately. Question do you recall seeing
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  Michael Thomas indiscernible on camera on the night on the
• 10:45
  Morning Watch of August the tenth? Answer? You can't really
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  see from the camera that I had access to. You
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  can't really see. You barely could see, because it's like
• 10:54
  I don't know if you've ever seen or been in
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  our shoe. Have you ever been in the shoe? Question? No,
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  we have pictures, but no, we have never been there. Answer,
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  so you can't really see. Question I'm showing you a picture.
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  Is this the view? Answer? Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah, that's it.
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  So like if there were in a black hoodie or something,
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  you can't see nobody over there, if their back is
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  turned and the chairs are you can't really see. You
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  might see a body you walk across, or you might
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  see a body you walk down, but you can't really see.
• 11:26
  It's not a real good copy. But yeah, that's exactly
• 11:28
  what I'm talking about. Question do you have anything else
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  on the cameras the other investigator. No, just when you're
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  in the control center, does it is there any indication
• 11:40
  saying that if a camera's working but not recording. No,
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  there's no way for you to know if a camera
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  is recording or not. Answer yeah. Question just if it
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  was actually live or not? Question uh huh. You would
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  just know that the camera's up, you know, I wouldn't
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  have been able to tell you that. I don't know.
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  Question Okay, and did you see prior to six thirty
• 12:02
  three when a body alarm was set off? Did you
• 12:04
  notice anything unusual happening in the institution on any camera specifically,
• 12:09
  I guess the shoe one that you couldn't see that
• 12:12
  well anyway? Answer no, question No, okay, there was no
• 12:17
  other angle from the shoe you could see. Answer No,
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  this is all that's all you could see. Question anything
• 12:24
  else on that the other investigator? No question. Now, just
• 12:29
  a few other questions. Do you recall anyone going into
• 12:33
  the shoe that night on August tenth? Answer August tenth,
• 12:37
  that's the Saturday. Question that Saturday overnight, the morning that
• 12:42
  Epstein was found dead. Answer going in the morning he
• 12:45
  was found or the night prior to him being found?
• 12:48
  Question both is fine. Answer, well, I know the lieutenant
• 12:51
  made rounds. Question Lieutenant who answer redacted. She made the
• 12:55
  rounds because they have to call the door, so we
• 12:57
  have to pop her in. Question So when he says night,
• 13:01
  he's talking about midnight at six thirty. Answer, so, Lieutenant,
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  she made rounds on the unit because the shoe staff
• 13:09
  called the door for her to pop, for us to
• 13:10
  pop her into the shoe. And when they called the door,
• 13:13
  when you hit the door, a visual of the door
• 13:16
  who's standing in front of the door pops up in
• 13:18
  the control center, so you know who's going into the shoe.
• 13:21
  During the body alarm our, usual staff just responds to
• 13:25
  a body alarm, so you know, they say, hey, we
• 13:27
  have a medical emergency in shoe or whoever they call.
• 13:30
  You got the shoe crew calling the door so staff
• 13:33
  can run and assist. So whoever ran in, I couldn't
• 13:36
  tell you, but whoever was on shift at that time,
• 13:39
  responded question. So the only one overnight would be at
• 13:43
  that before his body was found would be a lieutenant redacted?
• 13:47
  Answer Lieutenant redacted internal? If he had she gets cut
• 13:52
  off by the investigator who's internal answer redacted? Question do
• 13:57
  you recall redacted requesting to go into the shoe. Answer,
• 14:00
  he would he don't really, he wouldn't have any reason
• 14:03
  to go into the shoe, not unless they're calling for
• 14:05
  you to come in and do something, or he's going in,
• 14:08
  you know, because normally the two officers will count, they'll
• 14:11
  put their count slip on the door, and the internal
• 14:13
  officer he'll pick up the count slip on his rounds
• 14:16
  while he's counting the other units. So if he doesn't
• 14:19
  have a reason to go in the shoe, he won't
• 14:21
  go in the shoe. Question Okay, do you know if
• 14:24
  there's any other way that anyone can get through that
• 14:26
  outer door of the shoe without control buzzing them in? Answer? No,
• 14:32
  question is the he gets cut off by the guard.
• 14:36
  You would need an emergency key that you would have
• 14:38
  to get from control center, but no one gets those keys,
• 14:41
  and especially on the morning watch, when there's no need
• 14:44
  for us to give out those keys. Staffer calling the door.
• 14:47
  So no, there's no other way to get in the unit.
• 14:50
  Question Are those kept open or is it just it's
• 14:53
  locked up? Answer? It's behind the door in the bathroom
• 14:57
  in the control center. Question and that would get you
• 15:00
  through the first door. Do you know that there's a
• 15:03
  second set of keys for the internal door for the
• 15:05
  shoe kept in the control center. Answer. We have keys
• 15:09
  for most of the doors. Yeah, but those doors, the
• 15:11
  inner door, the unit officer would have the inner door.
• 15:14
  He has access to that, so the unit officers have
• 15:17
  those keys. Question. So we're just asking you to clarify
• 15:22
  if you do know if anyone checked out the keys
• 15:24
  for the inner door or the outer door out of
• 15:27
  the control center that night. Answer the outer door, those
• 15:30
  keys never get checked out, but the inner door, that
• 15:33
  key is pretty much like you can have a put
• 15:36
  a chit on the control center question, put a what
• 15:40
  answer a chit question? What's that answer? So it's like
• 15:44
  a chit system. I have a pair of keys. In
• 15:46
  order for me to get these keys from control, I
• 15:48
  have to turn it into chit question. So it's basically,
• 15:52
  he gets cut off by the guard with my name. Yeah,
• 15:55
  you have to turn it in a chit question a
• 15:59
  keychain with your name on it. Answer, Yeah, it's a
• 16:02
  chit uh huh. And it's like what is it? What
• 16:05
  would you call it? Accountability question? Okay, so you put
• 16:08
  the chit on it. You give the person a key
• 16:11
  in order to get the chit back. You got to
• 16:13
  give them the key back, then you get the chit back.
• 16:17
  Do you recall if anyone did that for the shoe
• 16:19
  that night? Answer I don't recall, but I don't recall that.
• 16:23
  No question, Okay, I've got nothing else. Is there any
• 16:27
  question that you think that we didn't ask you about
• 16:29
  that you feel that we should have asked you about?
• 16:31
  Answer no question. In regards to the Epstein investigation, answer
• 16:36
  no question. Do you believe Epstein took his own life? Answer?
• 16:39
  I believe so. Question Do you have any reason to
• 16:42
  believe that anyone took Epstein's life aside from him? Answer
• 16:45
  no question. Do you have any knowledge of anyone assisting
• 16:49
  Epstein with taking his life? Answer no question. Okay, answer,
• 16:54
  I believe he had a lot on his plate, and
• 16:56
  this environment has a culture shocked to him. I think
• 16:59
  that he's took his own life. Question now, the fact
• 17:02
  that we don't have the camera from that tier, I
• 17:04
  wanted to circle back with you. So we're understanding from
• 17:07
  that camera technician and everyone else, is that there was
• 17:10
  actually at that time cameras down each range. They just
• 17:14
  weren't recording. Do you know anything about that? Answer no question.
• 17:18
  Do you have any reason to believe that someone knocked
• 17:20
  those cameras offline intentionally so that they stop recording. Answer No,
• 17:25
  I don't believe that. No. No question, all right, and
• 17:27
  you don't know anything about that. Answer No, that's a
• 17:30
  good one. Question. Well, it's just there's a lot of
• 17:33
  coincidences in this one. Answer yeah, it's unfortunate. You know,
• 17:37
  this building is still deteriorating as we speak, so it
• 17:41
  just a lot of repairs and maintenance that needs to
• 17:43
  be done in this institution. Question well, thank you for
• 17:47
  taking the time to talk to us. Answer, you're welcome.
• 17:50
  You're welcome. Question This is special Agent redacted. The time
• 17:54
  is six twelve pm on Thursday July fifteenth, twenty twenty one.
• 17:58
  We're ending the interview and turning off the recorder, and
• 18:01
  that of course means we've come to the end of
• 18:03
  the deposition. But have no fear. There's plenty more where
• 18:08
  this came from, and you already know we're going to
• 18:10
  get them added to the catalog. All the information that
• 18:14
  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.