Latest / Full Spectrum Cycling / Full Spectrum Cycling #59 – A Chat With Chris Wiggins from The Psychic Derailleur Bike Shop

Transcript

Full Spectrum Cycling #59 – A Chat With Chris Wiggins from The Psychic Derailleur Bike Shop · Full Spectrum Cycling

• 0:00
  [rock music] Good day.
• 0:20
  Day. Good, good evening. Oh. Good will. Good will to everyone. Good. Good will. It's good. Yes, Dimitri. Hunting. Dimitri- Hunting. It's good to be good. Good. Good will- It's good... coming through the phone...
• 0:32
  very good. Hey, Full Spectrum Cycling Show number 59. There goes handsome Bob walking by the shop. Hey. Hey. Hey, Bob. Hey, Bob. Hey, it's handsome Bob rolling by. Just heard his band last night on the Mighty 91.
• 0:42
  I, I saw your reference to- Getting out our shift... Narlin Sm- Smurf. Smurf. Coming out of- Smurf... Mr. Bungle into Narlanskif. Just a nice little move. I liked it. Mr. Bungle. I called to compliment.
• 0:53
  I'm like, "Thank you. Just thank you." Hey, how about a heck of a weekend, hey? Hell yeah. Ooh. I still got the little suns burnt on my personage. It was, it was a little, uh, toasty.
• 1:03
  You know, it's kinda funny to, to actually break a sweat riding my bike. I'm like, "Oh, whoa. I don't know what's up." Yeah, I put my sweatband like- Like, "Oh, wow"... right before I left.
• 1:10
  I was like, "Yes, this is- Diggety do... time of the season." Do you have a sweatband forehead now? No. No, no, no. That's this thing. Oh, right on. Durag. The gator. The d- durag rag. The worn out gator and it...
• 1:24
  Trusty, trusty. Yeah. So yeah, Fr- there was a lot of riding around this weekend. Oh, yeah. I, uh, did some, but I mainly, uh, well, fought with my bike to get that rack on, and then, uh,
• 1:34
  did some, uh, activities with the family as well. I think I... Was it Saturday or Sunday? I stopped in and Tony... The bike was on top of Tony, wrestling him to the ground. Almost. [laughs] Like, come on. Really?
• 1:46
  It was, it was, it was... You know, the struggle is real. But it all got together, it rides nice, and now for part two. Part two. Part two. The electrification. Electrification. No, along with bars and stuff.
• 2:00
  [imitates electricity buzzing] Rims are on the way from Velocity. [laughs] Hubs are here. Little sparkles from your fingers. 'Merica. Fancy, fancy, uh, electrical stuffs came in. Sitting over there- Some of that stuff...
• 2:09
  looking at her. Oh, that's, you know, pretty cute. We should get a picture of that for the podcast. Oh, you should see the- Our Friends Electric... the big chimney thing. Oh, you got the tester in, too.
• 2:17
  It's over there, yeah. Yeah, this is all battery stuff. It's all for testing batteries. Batteries. Batteries. Batteries. You know, you know, for electric bikes. Yeah. All right, sparkles.
• 2:30
  [laughs] [imitates electric buzzing] I'm still, I- [laughs] I sent you a link to that police, custom-built police electric bikes. I did. I, I saw the link. I honestly haven't looked at it yet.
• 2:42
  It's- I was in- They're, uh, 50 miles an hour, and due to how they have stuffed the amount of batteries in them, they can do like 128 miles- Wow... on a charge.
• 2:52
  I mean, so a day's worth of police riding- I'd like to see them do the-... in a city... 'cause I...
• 2:56
  Down at the lakefront, or at least when there's no, uh, stay-at-home business, uh, they do their, like, practicing, taking people down and stuff right at the end of the Brady Street bridge. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:06
  And they, they kinda go around in a, like a duck, duck, goose circle. And then somebody breaks away and they try and run up that hill that goes up the grass. It's like a 45-degree angle. That's- It's pretty steep.
• 3:17
  Yeah, that's- And so the guys on the bikes try to ride up there, and then they can't, and they have to throw them on the ground and then foot pursue the guy that's the bad guy running away. Oh, wow.
• 3:25
  It's quite, it's quite entertaining, but- Yeah... think on a 50 mile an hour electric bike, they could probably chase that guy right up that hill. [laughs] Probably. Well, it's got like 5.6 horsepower. Holy sh- holy.
• 3:36
  Yeah, it's, for an electric bike- It's not really a bike... for an electric- It's more of a motorcycle at that point. It, they... It is pretty close, yes.
• 3:42
  Except for, you know, an electric motorcycle usually tops speed about twice that, but anyway. Yeah, welcome to the all electric version- Yeah, I guess. We've just started-... of the Full Spectrum Cycling...
• 3:50
  as we've gone down that rabbit hole, I guess. So you've seen the Mate electric bike before, [laughs] right? The what? Lord, Lord. The Mate. The Mate? Yes. Yes.
• 3:57
  So there's a new version now, and they have some star BMX guy on it, on- It's, it's not the baby Mate, is it?... on the snow.
• 4:03
  No, it's, he's in, like, Valparaiso, Chile or somewhere, riding on the mountain on this thing that is now 1,000 watt, blah, blah, blah. Wow. All right. It looks pretty cool.
• 4:13
  You gonna put that in the link n- in the notes, too? Maybe. All right, cool. Cool. Anyway. So anyway- Anyway... that's the electric portion of the show. Yeah. Now on to the acoustic version. [laughs] Or to you.
• 4:24
  Um, this weekend was, uh- Playing guitar... this weekend was National Camp In, the Boy Scouts of America. 'Merica. Oh, yeah. Uh, the Scouts of America.
• 4:31
  I don't know if they're gonna drop the boy portion of it, because there are now lady or girl Boy Scouts. Or other. Scouts. Yeah. Or others, or thems, or theys, or- They... they. The They Scouts. I am... Yes.
• 4:43
  I am he who is called I Am. [laughs] You know, Stan Yule Brenner style. [laughs] Right? So, um, I loaded up the bike packing rig at the shop and rode the three miles home and set- [laughs]... set camp up in the backyard.
• 4:56
  That was a lot of fun. Yeah. Got a little, uh, precursor to doing some real trips, but, uh- It's city camping... the boy, the boy set up his tent. Yeah, it was Saturday night, so it was- It was gorgeous...
• 5:07
  quite noisy outside. [laughs] Oh. That was the first really beautiful night out, so. Holy freaking frack, there was a lot of noise. Motorcycles on the freeway, little pop, pop, pops from across the- Oh.
• 5:17
  Other side of the river there. Fireworks. Yeah, probably. Sure. I'm sure they were fireworks. [laughs] Well, for sure. There were. The RW. There were fireworks. There were.
• 5:24
  Well, there were fireworks as well, though, too. [laughs] So yeah, lots of fireworks. Yosemite Sam and- It was a pretty- "Woo-hoo, this is great out. Wee-hoo."
• 5:31
  It was a pretty cool thing for, for people that are housebound. They had a, uh, like eight hours worth of stuff on, um... I don't know. If it wasn't Zoom, it was probably Facebook Live was probably what it was.
• 5:42
  But it was cool. That was good stuff. Got to test out my, uh, my this season's gear, which I haven't really gotten out and used yet, so that was fun. Hey, how about this? Hey? Big Sexy's on the road again. Yes.
• 5:56
  [laughs] COVID free. I, I guess. He left N'Awlins, where there's apparently- It's huge... it's probably a good, a good reason to leave New Orleans. [laughs] Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, maybe we'll have him on the show next week.
• 6:07
  That might be something fun. Right on. He, he called in, um, and left a, a message, but it sort of cut off at the end. Otherwise, I'd have cued it up and we could hear his dulcet tones and-
• 6:19
  Get reacquainted with, uh, Jason Beckhouse Sessy Big Sessy Sessy Yeah, man. So that's, uh, that's something maybe for next week. You know, for this week though,
• 6:34
  we're gonna call up, uh, Chris from Psychic Derailleur down there in Indianapolis, and while I punch these digits, why don't you guys, uh, ramble on about [laughs] Right now. Anything. Ramble on.
• 6:45
  Anything that might make sense to ramble [laughs] Oh. Yeah, our Sunday ride was- Pretty nice... pretty nice, 'cause I mean- Little windy, but- It was a little bit. I was...
• 6:56
  I just didn't think of it It gusted though, right? Yeah So it didn't like stay. It just did a couple of big blows and then kinda... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:02
  Yeah, we're r- right down by the lake, and yeah, there was a little bit of aggravation on that one, but- Cool. I'm pushing the button As far as you can do it- I'm, I'm-... you just do it... pushing the button right now.
• 7:13
  Let's see what happens. Let's see how this thing works. I'm not sure how it works. It's gotta work somehow. [laughs] Beep, boop, boop. Beep, boop, boop. Web interface. Hello? Hello. Is that Chris? Hello. Hello. Yeah.
• 7:30
  Why is my, uh... Hang on. Technology Figure out why my... Ah, there you are. There he is. There he is. Hello. Hello. Hey. Hello. Technology's- Hello... a wonderful thing. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. So, so- [laughs]...
• 7:47
  uh, listener audience, uh, we've got Chris from Psychic Derailleur on the line. Uh, Chris, you have- Oh, we're, we're just hopping right into it, all right. No foreplay or anything. [laughs] No, no. No. [laughs] Heck no.
• 7:59
  We're just kinda winging it here. You got, uh, you got Sven, JK, and Tony here in the, uh, River West Studio at the old Everyday Cycles, uh, bike shop- Nice... and podcasting emporium. Welcome, sir. Outstanding. Yeah.
• 8:13
  [laughs] So anyway, um, we talked a couple weeks ago, and I just thought it would be fun to have you on the program.
• 8:20
  And maybe we could start out by just, uh, maybe introducing yourself and giving people just a little history of you in the bike business, because we're kinda getting to where you are now, but, uh, it kinda requires maybe riding a little of the past history too.
• 8:36
  Sure. Well, we'll, we'll see if you still feel the same way when this is all over. [laughs] Um, um, boy, what do I say? You know, I've been
• 8:49
  selling bikes in one form or another for about, well, I don't know, since 1988. And, you know, like a lot of people that end up owning stores, y- you get to the point where you've really kind of
• 9:07
  topped out. You don't... There's, there's nothing else to do. I mean, it's, you're either gonna continue, you know, doing what y- you've always done, you're gonna go and get a quote "real job,"
• 9:23
  or you're gonna, you know, buy something and try to do something on your own. And in 2003, I was working for a guy that at one point he owned, you know, eight stores. Oh, wow.
• 9:41
  And, um, kind of slowly the stores kinda started getting chipped off. And, you know, while I was able to do some things working for him that I found, uh,
• 9:59
  you know, fulfilling for a lack of a better word, I got to... I was buying advertising for three or four markets. I was writing radio ads. I was, you know, doing web content, very early web content. Um,
• 10:16
  you know, I started to see some signs that maybe things weren't, [sighs] you know, going swimmingly. And I said, "Well, I mean, what am I gonna do? I'm, uh, you know, I can either ride this thing into the ground, um,
• 10:34
  or I can do something on my own." And, uh, in 2003, I, I ended up buying a store
• 10:46
  on the west side of Indianapolis that had been in business since, you know, 1967 at least. I don't know that we ever got a definitive date. Um- Was, was it a Schwinn shop to start out with? Uh, initially. Yeah.
• 11:01
  They, they kind of, they stopped doing Schwinn when, you know, kinda when a lot of people stopped doing Schwinn. You know, when the, when Schwinn got sold to,
• 11:15
  to Pacific, and, and they started doing, uh, you know, big box store stuff. Um, but they were a Trek dealer for a long time, and so, you know, I, I
• 11:31
  bought the store in 2003, and I owned it, you know, two months shy of 16 years. That's quite a run. And, [clears throat] yeah, it was, uh,
• 11:46
  uh, you know, one minute it felt like it had been forever, and the other minute it felt like it was just the blink of an eye. But, um, but I saw some things happening in the, in the bike business that, you know, I wasn't
• 12:03
  particularly crazy about. M- meaning, you know, the bikes were getting more and more complicated unnecessarily so I thought. Um, they... Y- you know, and the, the business model seemed to be
• 12:21
  we're gonna try to sell a new $5,000 bike to the same 50-year-old dentist every year. And they seemed to be forgetting about really 98.8% of the, of the buying public.
• 12:35
  There was no marketing that I could see that was, that was geared towards those people.
• 12:39
  They paid a lot of lip, lip service to, uh, advocacy and getting people on bikes and getting people to use bikes, but, but I didn't see a lot of real world applications into that.
• 12:54
  And my breaking point was kind of, I think, the 2004 or six, I don't remember what year it was exactly, Interbike when it was whatever year the cyclocross bike was gonna save the bike business. [laughs] Um, you know,
• 13:11
  you can kind of gauge your, your timeline on what is gonna save the bike business this year. [laughs] Um, but that year it was the cyclocross bike, and they weren't...
• 13:23
  I, I guess, you know, it, it shouldn't have been a surprise, but they weren't talking about the versatility of a cyclocross bike, about the fact that you could use a bike like a s- the Croscheck, for example,
• 13:35
  as a commuter, as a light touring bike, as, as really a, an all-road a- all-rounder. But they only seemed like- I bet you could even use one as a gravel bike, by gosh. [laughs] No. Right.
• 13:50
  Um, they just wanted to talk about, you know, $3,000 race bikes. And at that point I'd kind of had my fill and,
• 13:59
  you know, we were still a Trek dealer and we fulfilled our end of the deal as best we could with regards to that. But I started focusing more on Surly and what I thought were, you know, more versatile bikes. And,
• 14:14
  you know, some things happened on the side of town that the, my store was on, you know, w- was located, and then just the kind of slow decline, uh, of the bike business in general.
• 14:30
  Uh, it just became untenable to, to own a 9,000 square foot store. So
• 14:36
  I closed that store at the very tail end of 2018 and moved whatever things that I wanted to, to continue to do into 900 square feet inside the, uh, the building that a local coffee roaster, uh, owned or owns.
• 14:58
  And, uh, yeah, that's... I just do Surly and Rivendell- Nice... um, Sacle bags when I can get them, Swift Industries, Oveja Negra Bikepacking. Good stuff. Um, Sim Works Nitto racks. Yeah. That's...
• 15:16
  I decided that, um, you know, I was either gonna do this, if I was gonna continue working in the bike business I was only gon- I was either gonna do essentially what I'm doing now, or,
• 15:29
  you know, Walmart always needs greeters. [laughs] I mean, that was, that was really the, that was the point. So. Yeah. So you are a one man show, is that correct? Correct. That's, uh- Yeah.
• 15:44
  I've been forced into a very uncomfortable position, which is, you know, um, mechanic. I, you know, I... That's the one thing that, uh, was never on my resume.
• 15:56
  Uh, it was, it was something that I never, uh, was hired to do, something that I was never required to do. Oh. Uh, and thankfully, uh, a couple of guys that,
• 16:07
  uh, worked for me, um, who are both great mechanics, both when I expressed my concern, they both looked at me and said, "You know, there's a lot of stuff you can do. You just choose not to."
• 16:20
  [laughs] I feel you there, for sure. Um, so your, your business works, does it work only by appointment or are you actually have, uh, uh, hours where you're open to the public at large?
• 16:33
  Well, not right now maybe 'cause of the bullshittery that's going on out there, but, uh... Well, um, yeah, so March through October, I am open three days a week.
• 16:49
  Um, and that was r- really, one, because I didn't know how my- [laughs]
• 17:02
  You know, I was lucky enough that I had kind of a, a, a customer base that was kind of baked into the cake, and I didn't know how they would
• 17:11
  respond to having to make an appointment just to come in and, you know, buy a $40 bag, for example. And also, um, quality,
• 17:28
  and not to, so that I don't get too inside baseball here. [laughs] Quality Bicycle, uh, Parts is the, the parent company that owns
• 17:40
  Surly and Salsa and All-City and, and, uh, you know, we, we don't have enough time to list all the brands that they own. But that's a- They, they are not, uh,
• 17:53
  they're not, uh, really too keen on selling to a s- to a store that doesn't have posted hours. So that was kinda my way to kinda get around that.
• 18:10
  Even though that I wasn't open all the time, I, I could o- be open three days a week, and that seemed to placate them. Right. So how do you think they're thinking about that now?
• 18:20
  Because things have certainly changed since you opened your shop, and you... I- I mean, I opened my shop in, uh, the summer of 2018, so we're not that far off when we opened, and I, you know, I deal with Q as well and-
• 18:34
  Um, I came from a little bit different angle into the business, but am, am running a similar model to you except I was open the first year a lot, like 60 hours a week.
• 18:45
  And now I kinda ran across you by, um, talking, I think, to Aaron Domeier, and said, "You should talk to Chris." Yeah. "He's got a really cool model down there where he's doing this by appointment thing."
• 18:56
  And lo and behold, here the last, uh, two and a half months or two months or whatever it's been, uh, I've been by appointment only because we've been forced into it, and by cracky, I like it [laughs].
• 19:09
  Yeah, I think it's, it's beneficial in a couple of ways. Um, so to answer your first question, you know, who knows? I mean, with a company that's that big, um, it's, it's really hard to predict. Um,
• 19:27
  you know, I never thought that I'd be able to ship a Surly, and w- that's happened recently. Um, there's a whole host of hoops you have to jump through to do that. Um, but,
• 19:42
  you know, and I don't know if it's gonna, you know, continue. It was kind of a trial balloon that they threw up. Um, so I never thought that that would happen. So maybe, uh, maybe it will. I, you know, and I don't know.
• 19:59
  Even if they said, you know, "You can go to appointment only and you don't have to have, you know, any open store hours," I still don't know that I would do it. Um, but I don't know.
• 20:11
  I haven't really thought about it that much. It is... Y- you know, the advantages from a, from, I think from a customer service standpoint, you know, I had a guy call me on the phone last week, order a Disc Trucker.
• 20:29
  I emailed him an invoice. He paid for it. He drove an hour and a half to come to the shop today to pick up the bike. Hmm.
• 20:41
  And because of the way the, the store is set up, I mean, you know, I spent two or two and a half hours with him, and, you know, you could never do that in a traditional retail environment. Mm-hmm. Yep, exactly.
• 20:59
  Um, and so I think there's... I hope the perception is, from the customer's standpoint, that there's a lot of value there. Um, but, you know, you never know.
• 21:13
  I, I think for the people that, that take advantage of it, um, there certainly is. I had a lot of people reach out to me, um,
• 21:25
  after I started this and started kinda talking about it, and they all kind of in hushed tones said, "If I was opening a bike shop right now, this is exactly what I would be doing." That's good praise there.
• 21:43
  Yeah. And my, well, my response was always, "Well [laughs], you know, from your lips to God's ears. We'll see," you know? [laughs] Yeah.
• 21:51
  [laughs] So some of the stuff that you do, uh, to, I don't, it's, to promote the shop or maybe just 'cause you have to do it because it's your personality, you've got, uh, a podcast that you do, and you've got, uh, some videos that you do pretty regularly, which I find a lot of good knowledge in some of them.
• 22:08
  You have, like, different, uh,
• 22:10
  different versions of, um, what I learned from this about that or, you know, uh, how's that, is that, like, a part of your strategy or is that just something that y- you feel like you gotta get the knowledge out of your brain?
• 22:23
  N- no. I mean, I, I did radio when I was in college, and the la- the last thing in the world I wanted to do was sit in front of a camera. Um, and
• 22:39
  m- my first YouTube video was, um... I was... [cat meows] Yeah, I know, buddy. [laughs] I got this cat that's just- [laughs] Yeah.
• 22:54
  He was quiet for so long, and I thought, "Well, maybe he could just stay that way for- Uh-huh... just another hour." Um,
• 23:03
  uh, my first YouTube video was, was honestly probably four years after I knew that I needed to start doing video. Hmm. And it took me that long to actually get the gumption up to do it. And so,
• 23:21
  yeah, I mean, especially when you have a, you know, when part of your business is web-based, that's the way to reach people. And,
• 23:32
  you know, I've s- you know, I've had people buy stuff from me on the website, you know, both big things and small things, because they watched my YouTube videos, and they, and they've enjoyed and appreciated the content.
• 23:45
  And that's, you know, that's about all I can ask for. So if somebody wants to check out your, uh, growing library of good knowledge and video- What do we do?... stuff, what, uh, what's, what are you on YouTube as?
• 24:01
  The Psychic Derailer. Ps- psychic- Derailer. The Psychic Derailer, right. I, I watched quite a few of them. Yeah. I, I'm, I, I find you entertaining, gosh darn it [laughs]. Oh, thanks [laughs].
• 24:12
  Um, we kinda have a tradition here at the, uh, at the show. I don't know if, if you're currently, uh, imbibing, but it is- Top of the hill... top of, the top of the hill, and, uh,
• 24:23
  that just means we're gonna stop this ride for a second and take a sip of our show beer, which, uh- Oh, dear... which this week is Dogfish Head American Beauty Hazy Ripple IPA with, uh, requisite Grateful Dead- Yeah...
• 24:39
  bear on the side of it. It's a collaboration with the Grateful Dead, or what's left of them. Yeah, and the Steal Your Face. Out of, uh, Dogfish from, uh, Delaware. And so, uh, we're just gonna- Well-...
• 24:49
  have a little quaff right here real quick. [laughs] Well, I, I will take a, a metaphorical or, you know, a kind of a, a, you know, what do you wanna call it? Metaphorical will work. I'll take a sip of my fizzy water.
• 25:02
  I'll be completely honest with you, I was imbibing, and then I all of a sudden realized, oh, crap, this thing is coming up. [laughs] I gotta kinda- Well, this is just a thing, though, Chris.
• 25:15
  Yeah You know, if you're worried about that. I gotta- We only have a, we only have around 1,000 listeners. I gotta- It's not that big a deal. [laughs] Well, I gotta- No breathalyzers are involved here... but, you know,
• 25:23
  I gotta straighten up a little bit so I don't embarrass myself. [laughs] Yeah. Well, that's kinda what we were hoping for because that's what we do every week. That's what we do every week. So yeah, pretty much.
• 25:31
  [laughs] Oh, well, you know, again, be careful what you wish for. [laughs] So, um, yeah, this American Beauty, it's really tasty. Um- Yeah... it's an unfiltered pale ale brewed with
• 25:43
  s- spite and ancient heirloom grain that combines natural haze, and that's dosed with, uh- Does it smell like-... a special yeast and hop aromatics... does it smell like rich Corinthian leather?
• 25:53
  [laughs] Ricardo Montalban is not here. [laughs] The beer. No. The beer. The beer. It's mas, it's the beer. Mas, it's the beer. Yeah, so you, uh- Smells of the, uh, the w- little, uh- It doesn't have a lot of bouquet.
• 26:06
  No. That's the weird thing on it. It's got good flavor, though. Oh, it's fantastic. And it's 7% on the alcohol-hoozy scale. Dogfish Head really doesn't make a bad beer. I mean, they're, they, they're spot on.
• 26:15
  Well, I, I had, uh, I had a little Bulleit Rye before you called. Oh. So I got the beat on the, on the alcohol by volume. Good stuff. Good stuff. That's a fantastic beer. Tom, Tom Bulleit does a good job on just- Yeah...
• 26:26
  about anything he touches. Um, so, uh, th- this tie-in with Grateful Dead leads me to another thing about your, uh, the knowledge that I have about you is you, you're a music fan. How does that tie into- Yeah...
• 26:41
  to the daily, the daily life of the bike shop? Um, I play a lot of jug band music in the store. [laughs] Nice.
• 26:50
  Is that with, with- And, uh- With, uh, with, uh, the b- what's the bass, the wash tub bass and the, and jugs and whatnot? Well, no, the bass is the, is the jug. Oh, it is the jug. Yeah. Okay. The jug is the jug. Gotcha.
• 27:01
  Yeah. Right on. I, shows what I know. I got, I, I got bluegrass albums over there from my dad. I, I don't know, I don't know jug band from washtub band from, uh, washboard band. Gosh darn it.
• 27:12
  Um- There was a Muppet one, the Uncle Otter's, uh, or something like that. Jug... Oh, it's gonna drive me nuts. [laughs] It was like a Muppet, a Muppet offshoot.
• 27:21
  Yeah, Mike's usually the color guy with the, with the vast advanced knowledge of everything, so. [laughs] Got one foot off the merry-go-round. Well, jug bands could've, you know, comprised...
• 27:33
  There were a lot of different instruments that there could've been.
• 27:36
  Um, a lot of tenor banjos and ukuleles and, and wash tub basses and jugs and kazoos and harm- It was really, you know, whatever they could get their hands on. Um, but it all kinda sprang out of,
• 27:55
  you know, if you look at it like, you know, I don't know how you wanna say it started, but the minstrelsy, for lack of a better term, and then, you know, from that you got
• 28:11
  blues and, and jazz, and then you gotta take, you know, g- the, the spirituals, the gospel music came in, too, and it all kinda muddled together and, you know, you get this, this gumbo. And, uh,
• 28:29
  you know, one of the best purchases I ever made and the m- some of the best time I ever spent was watching the Ken Burns 10-part documentary on jazz. It was, you know, it's really...
• 28:43
  I don't know how many times I've watched it all the way through, but it's, uh,
• 28:48
  that's the, the, the kind of the birth of, you know, what we can call American music, and it's, and it's got its roots and its fingers in kind of everything. But, um,
• 29:02
  the jug band stuff just was a, a way, I think, in a lot of ways for people that, you know, some people that were very accomplished and other people that may not have been to, to get together and make music back in a time when that was enter- that was how we entertained ourselves and each other, and how we told stories, you know?
• 29:23
  And I think when it, when it comes right down to it, that's what I'm the most interested in, is storytelling. That's why I talk about things like, you know, the Clone Wars animated series and why I was so, uh, taken with
• 29:40
  TV shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Oh. It was, it was not the content so much, although that was great, but it was also the storytelling. Absolutely. And the fact that, um,
• 29:54
  you know, you, it, it can just suck you in and... Good. So we just- I was rewatching, I was rewatching Rebels right before you called. Oh. [laughs] Since the Clone Wars, since the Clone Wars ended the other day.
• 30:13
  Yeah, I've been caught up on, on the Clone War. I had a good, I had the mighty, uh, uh, May the Fourth Star Wars Day.
• 30:23
  Started it all off, I was gonna get into the- The la- In- into the, uh, into the Clone Wars, but I had a, a steady diet of Rogue One through the original, uh, trilogy, into the sequel trilogy
• 30:37
  While playing the prequel trilogy sound, film scores in the background. So I was able to get all nine, all nine films addressed [laughs] In an eight- In, in, yeah, about- In an eight-hour span...
• 30:48
  uh, uh, twe- uh, 10 10-hour span About 10 hours. Nice. [laughs] That was... Or wait, no. The last- 14, 14 hours. That was it. Geez. It was a long day.
• 30:57
  The last four episodes of the, the last four episodes of The Clone Wars may be the best Star Wars, period. Right on. Yeah, I'm pretty excited to check all that out. Yeah, me too.
• 31:09
  I, I just got Disney+, so I started, I started at the beginning, again, just so I can- Yeah... make sure that I haven't missed anything along the way. So it'll be a little bit before I get to the end, but I'm on my way.
• 31:22
  I don't know what to do.
• 31:23
  And there will be, you know, there will be people, too, that tell you that, you know, you can watch those four episodes standalone, and I think you can, but if you really wanna get the depth of the characters, one character in particular, um, I think you gotta kinda power through it from the beginning.
• 31:41
  Can you, can I binge-watch it, or do I have to space it out one day at a time? No, now you can, now you can just sit down and, and just plug away. Well, I, I know I can, but should I? [laughs] Oh, absolutely.
• 31:57
  Are you kidding me? Oh, right on. Cool. Well, good. I got, then I got my next couple days planned out. Emmett Otter's Jug-Band Christmas. That was gonna drive me nuts. Oh, there you go.
• 32:07
  That, that's the name of the- [laughs] That's the name of the Muppet band? Yes. Right on. Yes. It was gonna drive me insane if I didn't get- Short trip... that addressed. Uh, Chris- [laughs]...
• 32:14
  may- maybe you could, uh, when we're done with the show or tomorrow or something, email me
• 32:19
  f- five jug band bands that you think somebody that's just gonna start listening to this stuff might, might, uh, put on their Apple Music or their Spotify list and give it a listen. Yeah.
• 32:33
  Is- Yeah, I mean, I can give you two right off the bat, which is, uh, the Memphis Jug Band and Gus Cannon. Yeah. And then there's one other that's not coming to... Oh, the Mississippi Sheiks. Very cool.
• 32:48
  That name sounds familiar. Some- The, you know, the, the problem, the problem with a lot of that stuff is that the, because it was recorded in, like, the '20s, um, finding a recording that
• 33:02
  isn't just all hisses and pops- [laughs] Mm-hmm... is the, sometimes the issue. Well. Well, I just got a new turntable over there. Maybe we can find some, uh, vinyl floating out there in the ether- [laughs]...
• 33:14
  that's still good enough. Just start, start scrounging for some old 78s. Yeah. Yep. Hear you say it. Yep. A crazy story about how there used to be a bunch of vinyl pressed in West Bend,
• 33:27
  and if they weren't, uh, that's Wisconsin for Chris in case you didn't know. Um, and if they didn't sell or something like that, they just threw them in the lake.
• 33:37
  So supposedly there's like a- Was, oh, that was, uh, Paramount. Was that Paramount Records? I, I don't know. It was- 'Cause they are, they're up by Port Washington there. Oh, maybe. Yeah, but it was,
• 33:46
  apparently there's, like, a stockpile under the water. They're probably still totally preserved. Probably, except for the sleeves and the album covers. No, it was just the vinyl. Oh, there you go. Huh.
• 33:55
  We should find those. Huh. That'd be cool. It's always good finding old- But you gotta... Well, yeah, you'd, so if you gotta go into the lake. [laughs] True that.
• 34:05
  It's a nice lake, although it was, it, the breeze was chilly last Friday, and then it kinda switched around and it was- Oh, lovely... a beautiful weekend up here. Yes, yes. Now,
• 34:16
  w- so that I don't, uh, you know, one, I'm gonna make myself sound geographically kind of ignorant, but, so that, and I could also just pull it up on Google. But which lake? Uh, Lake Michigan. Michigan.
• 34:28
  We're in Milwaukee here. Okay, then. Just north of Chicago. That's kinda what I was gonna- We're a, we're a bedroom community of Chicago, 90 miles north or so. That's- [laughs]...
• 34:36
  not what I was thinking, but- Yeah, West, oh, yeah, West Bend is also, though, on, on Lake Michigan. No, it's not. Or it's near. Okay. It's near M- Lake Michigan. It's a stone's throw, as they say.
• 34:45
  Hey, as an aside, my sister was born in Indianapolis, by the way. Ah. God rest her soul. She recently passed, actually. Oh. Didn't even think about that- Well, I wa-... except that she was born...
• 34:57
  I wa- [laughs] And I wasn't, so. [laughs] Well, my dad got sucked- I ended- He got sucked into, he was a CBS camera guy, and he got sucked into Indy to do the Indianapolis 500 in 1963 or 4 or somewhere in there.
• 35:12
  And I'd just been born in California, and he uprooted everybody and went to Indy, and then my sister was born.
• 35:17
  We were there for about a year or two, and then he went, moved to Milwaukee, and we've been stuck here for the most of the last 40-plus years. Boy. So, yeah. That's, uh, California to Indy to Milwaukee. Right?
• 35:29
  And I've, I've escaped from Milwaukee and actually gone to California for eight years, and I came back, 'cause I do like the Midwest, and I like, uh, I like how relatively inexpensive it is to live. Yep.
• 35:38
  And I don't have to, you know... Uh, they say the Midwest work ethic is really good, which- Yep... if you're in California, it is. Yes, absolutely. But I don't have to work that hard here, really, [laughs] so. Right.
• 35:47
  In, in, in reality comparison, yes, that is very true. Yeah. When we moved out to Colorado, I did the same thing. I'm like, "Oh, all right. I wanna go back home." Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know. [laughs] Home is home.
• 35:57
  I guess that's what they say. Well, yeah. Yeah. It's got a lot of good things going for it. Exactly. So lots of, see, lots of not bike talk, which is- We did it. We did... the kind of talk I actually like the most.
• 36:06
  [laughs] What's your, uh, Chris, let's, let's throw out a, a subject that may either have you reach through the interwebs and kill me, or maybe you're indifferent to, but talk to me about your opinion on electric bikes.
• 36:21
  Well, it's changed. Um, I think I had, uh, and I've written about this, um, but, you know, in the, in the beginning, I think my,
• 36:36
  my take was not too different from a lot of people that worked in bike shops, which was You know, just, just ride your damn bike. What's the problem? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And, uh,
• 36:54
  I think that the other thing, you know, the other concern that I had was, um, taking people that m- maybe didn't have the,
• 37:09
  the riding ability that maybe they should have, and then sticking a bike underneath them and s- and, and having them go out on mountain bike trails with the ability to, to go a lot faster than- Yeah...
• 37:23
  than they really should. Um, I didn't know what that was gonna look like from a liability standpoint. But, you know, the, uh, a, a rep told me a story, um, that kinda changed my thinking, which was,
• 37:42
  um, he lives in Michigan, and
• 37:46
  there was a guy that was in his kind of little circle there in Michigan who was, you know, an older guy, he was a veteran, he had some health problems due to that, but he was also very instrumental in ha- in getting a lot of the mountain bike trails in, in that area built.
• 38:06
  And he just got to the point where he was getting dropped every ride. Mm-hmm. And the guys that worked at the shop said, "Why don't you let us order you an e-bike? Why don't you let us order you an e-bike?"
• 38:20
  And his answer was always, "No, no, no." [laughs] And they, they went out on a ride, another ride, and he got dropped again,
• 38:32
  and then he got back to the shop and put his credit card on the counter and said, "Get me the bike." [laughs] And, you know, for him, that bike is allowing him to still participate- Right...
• 38:45
  at the level that he wants to. Um, and when I really started to think about my position, you know, these bikes are not inexpensive. Mm. You know, it, uh, you know, a, what is a, a mid-level Trek,
• 39:04
  you know, full suspension e-bike's- Yeah... gonna run you- Five, six grand... 4,000- Yeah... 4,500. Yeah. And then, and then you can spend 8,000 without even breaking a sweat. Oh, yeah.
• 39:15
  So how many, how many, you know, yobbos are gonna be out there on bikes like that? Uh, you know, if I'm, if I'm honest, probably not that many.
• 39:28
  And then you, you look at the applications with regards to a bike like the Big Easy. Yeah. You know, a, a, a long tail cargo bike that, you know, can legitimately give someone- [laughs]...
• 39:44
  can, can po- can, can, can potentially replace a car for somebody. Yeah, absolutely. Or, yeah. Just, just or at least, you know, one car.
• 39:52
  Just, uh, just so you know, that, that particular bike, that specific bike has managed to have Greg take me to about 22 miles an hour on the back of it one day at about 22 degrees [laughs] in Wisconsin. Yeah.
• 40:06
  We demoed that thing, and it is an incredible bicycle. [laughs] Yeah, so you know, I, I spent the, the better part of the winter, um, expanding. Um,
• 40:23
  and I haven't ridden my bike a whole lot, and I decided that last week was gonna be the week that, you know, I was gonna get off my duff and, you know, ride to the shop and... But I was realistic in, in my, uh, planning.
• 40:41
  So, um, I rode, I've got a old Raleigh mountain bike with a crushed Clydesdale fork on it, and I rode that to the shop,
• 40:53
  and I had a appointment in the morning, and I met the customer for the appointment, and I boxed up a couple orders to, to go to the post office, and then I got on the Big Easy to ride home. Mm-hmm.
• 41:03
  And the, the moderate tailwind that I had coming in had turned into a full-blown, you know, what felt like gale force headwind- [laughs] Going home... going home. And
• 41:21
  you know, I was, even with the, the assist, I was still pretty knackered when I got home. [laughs] And if it hadn't been for the, and if it hadn't been for the motor, I would've just been wrecked.
• 41:36
  I would've been worthless for the rest of the day. Um, so, uh, you know, I think they definitely have a place, and I think this... You know, it isn't any different. The problem in the bike business is this...
• 41:53
  Can I swear? Yeah, totally. Absolutely. We're explicit on Apple iTunes. [laughs] You know, goddamn effete snobbery. Look, I was in the bike business in the '90s, and
• 42:08
  when you work in any kinda service business, you know, you have a responsibility. And in the '90s, as a 20-something-year-old guy that was, you know,
• 42:20
  one of the few people in this town riding, we did not take that responsibility as seriously as we should have. And it led to,
• 42:32
  in large part, the reputation that bike shops have to this day, and yet it still continues, this whole idea that, you know, you're gonna look down your nose at somebody that wants to ride
• 42:49
  a bla- blaming, blanking bike- And, you know, they just need a little help. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I, I, I don't think the attitude is as widespread.
• 43:03
  I think that, you know, the, the fact that it's, the, the going has been, the going has been relatively tough for a lot of shops over the last six or eight years, um, has led to some softening.
• 43:20
  But, you know, whenever I see somebody still kind of, you know, crinkle up their nose and talk about cheating, it's just like, you know, who cares? Tony and I are gonna be cheaters. [laughs] Very soon. Yeah.
• 43:34
  Well, you know, Milwaukee, uh, does not have a shop that does e-bikes very well.
• 43:38
  We have, we have a big chain that has now just made a superstore for e-bikes, but it, I think it's only because they see it as a profit center. Right. Totally. And it isn't really that they're, they're going...
• 43:49
  You know, for certain people, just a little assist might make their, m- might make them get out on their bikes, you know, 80% more of the time than they would have if they didn't have that assist.
• 43:59
  It takes away a barrier that people- Yeah... are afraid of. I don't wanna ride out there 10 miles and not be able to get home. I, I'm a f- you know, it, I'm, I'm trying to get back in shape, but I'm not in shape.
• 44:09
  So maybe, maybe this would help people, um, have a crutch, so to speak. But, you know, that's just one part of it.
• 44:17
  There's people around our little area here that are using them as car replacements and are on them- Yep... 365 days a year. So I, I'm, I'm- Yeah, I think... Go ahead.
• 44:28
  Well, I was just gonna say, I'm, I'm, I'm sold on the idea of using them appropriately, but now I don't wanna be the traffic cop that says, [laughs] "You're not using your e-bike right." Right.
• 44:38
  And, um, I just, I, it, for me, part of it is I'm a tinkerer and a builder, and I love... Now it's something new to play with. I can build bikes. I like that. That's great.
• 44:47
  But now I have a new, a new element that makes building an electric bike for somebody and, and meeting their purpose kind of fun.
• 44:55
  So I don't know, maybe it, maybe it's just selfish on my part, but I do like playing with them 'cause they're interesting things, and the electronics and the electric side of it is actually something that's u- up my alley anyway.
• 45:07
  So I, I, I dig dealing with them. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't thrilled about the fact that I had to buy a Windows laptop, you know- [laughs]... to, just to plug the damn thing in.
• 45:18
  You know, I was at the Bosch training, and I first raised my hand, and my very first question was, "Is this software Mac compatible?" Sure. And they said no. You just use Parallels. And I said- It's no problem.
• 45:28
  [laughs] Well, I was like, "You gotta be kidding me."
• 45:33
  Um, you know, I, you know, I think the, the problem or, you know, what I perceive as a potential problem is the same as the everything in the bike business, which is, you know, they start out with these recreational bikes, but then as soon as they have the opportunity, what do they do?
• 45:53
  They push it into, you know, really high-end, really specific stuff that is, you know, pretty prohibitive for most people. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And the, the kinda recreational stuff is then just kind of an afterthought.
• 46:10
  Um, and, you know, maybe I'm wrong, I, 'cause I'm not, you know, I'm not, uh... I don't have my fingers in it like I used to.
• 46:20
  I mean, I'm just doing the stuff that I do, and I'm, and I'm pretty much ignored by everybody, which is, which is fine. Um, you know, um, and Surly's got their bike, which is great, and, uh,
• 46:36
  there may or may not be another one, uh, coming at the end of the year. I, you know, I, who knows? Uh, but I, I, you know, I think the, the, the cost is obviously
• 46:54
  always gonna be p- a potential barrier.
• 46:56
  Uh, the reason that I bought a Big Easy and brought it into the store was because I, one, I wanted to see if there was any interest in, you know, cargo bikes in this town, and two, I thought, y- you know, I, I can't imagine somebody plunking down five grand for one of these things and not even being able to see it.
• 47:18
  Mm-hmm. So- No doubt... um- So what do you think? So, uh, we're kind of taking a slightly different tact. I'd love to have a Big Easy in my shop.
• 47:27
  It would probably almost go from one end of the store to the other, though. Mm-hmm. Not really. Yeah. You know, and I did ride the one that Aaron brought through, and I am, I'm sold on it. It's a great bike.
• 47:36
  But like you, I think, uh, people need to see it, and I'm not sure that that's exactly where we are right now. But where I think- Right...
• 47:43
  where I think we're gonna be is somebody that has an existing bike that they really like, and they maybe are getting a little bit older, like you had mentioned before, and they want to just be able to be out and not feel like they're tired every time they get home, and it's gonna take something inexpensive-ish, like 700, 800 bucks, to take their existing bike and make it something that they wanna ride more often.
• 48:10
  So... And then we'll see how it works. It just might- Yeah, there's been-... it's our angle. [laughs] There's been, um, you know, obviously a number of those kind of retro kits that have...
• 48:25
  You know, BionX was the big one that was around for a while and, and, uh, the, uh, there's that, I don't even know if they're still around, but that Copenhagen Wheel. Yeah, a little bit. Um- Sure, yep.
• 48:39
  The, you know, the, the problem with that Copenhagen Wheel, for example, at least the problem that I saw, was that, you know, the range wasn't that great, and the battery being Built into the wheel.
• 48:57
  I mean, you have, there's no ability to replace the battery. You gotta send it back to them. And then for me, at the time that I was looking at them, which was, you know, honestly years ago, there was no 650B option.
• 49:11
  Right... which kinda took me out of the game because, you know, I think at this point all of my bikes, I gotta think,
• 49:26
  you know, a very high percentage of the bikes that I have are all 650B, and a lot of them- Mm... that I sell are 650B, so. Yeah. I think this, so here's, here's what we're doing.
• 49:36
  Um, and I, I don't know, maybe it's something that you could look into for your own shop. We're, we're working with open source stuff. We're not working with proprietary things.
• 49:44
  We're not working with BionX that goes out of business or Copenhagen that you can't service. We're working with things that are readily available.
• 49:52
  But I'm, I'm working with a company out of Canada called Grin, and I think any bike shop out there that's in a, in a place where they wanna work with electric, uh, stuff should look at this place, ebikes.ca.
• 50:04
  Um, these guys have it going on since 2003, and e- everything is pretty turnkey, and they're, and the parts are
• 50:13
  readily replaceable and very open source, which you're, it's, I think it's a really, it's the only way I- Mm-hmm... I'm gonna do it. I, I, I like the Bosch thing.
• 50:23
  I like how integrated it is, but I don't like how proprietary it is. Right. So. Just so you know, Chris, it runs on Windows, it runs on Mac, it runs on Linux.
• 50:32
  [laughs] Yes, all, all of your major, major operating systems in- including Linux.
• 50:38
  Yes, all the, 'cause they, they write their own software for all the testing equipment and everything, and the programming for their, what they call the cycle analyst, which is your dashboard, that actually is your controller now.
• 50:49
  So that's really cool. I don't know. Anyway. We're, we- So... we talked more about e-bikes on this show than any show in the past that we've ever done.
• 50:54
  [laughs] But check out Grin 'cause you can do- Well, it's a- You can build your own 650 wheel set. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You're just buying a hub and you're building a wheel. It's super simple.
• 51:06
  It, you know, it's a, it's still a, a polarizing, uh, subject, I think- Absolutely... in a lot of places. I mean- Absolutely. And I think, you know, again,
• 51:22
  from an industry standpoint, and I'm, you know, I guess I'm in the industry, but barely, um, it's just the latest thing in a long list of things that's gonna save the bike business.
• 51:39
  And as sick as it sounds, it seems like, you know, the talk here in the last couple weeks is, you know, is COVID-19 gonna save the bike business? Oh, for crying out loud. [laughs] And I, that's, you know, that's,
• 51:54
  that's a real interesting, uh, discussion to have. Right. Because apparently, you know, things are going gangbusters. I'm talking to reps who are saying, you know, when this all started, you guys, meaning the shops,
• 52:12
  weren't buying anything. And now apparently we, finger quotes, we are buying everything. I mean, try to buy a hybrid bike from Trek, Specialized, Giant, I mean, even Civia. Gone. They're gone.
• 52:30
  Well, here, here's one for- There are no bikes... here's one for you. Here's how busy the bike industry is.
• 52:34
  Not necessarily at my shop, 'cause I think we're just doing what we do, but I tried to get some degreaser from QBP today. Guess what they're out of? Degreaser. Degreaser. Yeah. For Christ's sake. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.
• 52:46
  Well, and I think it's because, you know, all these people that have been cooped up for, you know, the last two months, uh- Gotta get out... yeah. And, you know, they're, they're maybe not buying new bikes.
• 53:03
  They're pulling that bike out that they bought 10 years ago and never rode. Oh, for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, you know, they're, you know, you're having to replace tires, tubes, cables, uh- That's good profit...
• 53:16
  you know, just to get it out on the street. And my question is, you know, if I, if the Pollyanna in me takes over, it'd be great to think that, you know, that's gonna then stick. But I'm also not gonna- Some percentage.
• 53:33
  Some percentage will. Not a high enough one, but some percentage- Oh, yeah... will stick. Right. Yeah. The old, the old man on the porch in me knows that people have really short memories. Yep.
• 53:47
  And as soon as things even look like they're back to normal, you know, hell, traffic's already crazy again out here. Yep. And gas is cheap, so everyone's buying SUVs again. [laughs] Not anymore.
• 54:00
  Gas was a buck 99 out there in Grafton today. It's back up again. Ooh, buck 99. $24 a barrel. Can you believe it? Ooh, $1.99. For West Texas crude. I mean, Jesus Christ. How old are you? $1.99 is expensive?
• 54:12
  Compared to $1.14 I paid last week, you betcha. 95 at the, at the Cost Co. Oh, oh. About a week ago. Oh, boy. Well, you know, it's 'cause it's that, 'cause it's that summer blend, you know? Yeah.
• 54:24
  [laughs] They gotta charge more for that summer. Yeah. Absolutely. My gasoline shit. Holy mackerel. Chris, it's been awesome, awesome, awesome talking to you. Um, I, we should probably do this again.
• 54:34
  I, there's a lot, lot more you've got in your brain and, and that I'd like to pick out of there, but, uh, uh, we probably ought to let our one listener go to sleep now and, uh- [laughs]...
• 54:44
  may- maybe you could, maybe you could take us out with the way you sign off a lot of your, uh, your videos because I think it's awesome. Okay. I'd be glad to. Thanks for having me on. Um- Appreciate it...
• 54:57
  the psychetrailer.com And then, you know, so when I named the store, first of all, it's, you know, I didn't really think that, that much about it or I would've never probably named it this- [laughs]...
• 55:10
  'cause it's a hell of a lot to say, and it's, and it's harder t- to type. I was gonna say, the spelling's damn. [laughs] But it... Yeah. Right. And but it's a line out of a Shins song. Oh.
• 55:23
  So there's a, there's a Shins song called Bait and Switch, and there's a line in there about the psychic derailer. And I thought, "Well, that's great."
• 55:32
  And, and so when I kind of rejuvenated my blog, I named it The Psychic Derailer. [laughs] And then when I started the podcast, I thought, "Well, you know, that's obviously The Psychic Derailer."
• 55:43
  And then when I switched the store- It's The Psychic Derailer... um, somebody, you know, they said, "Well, are you gonna keep the name the same?" And I said, "No."
• 55:53
  I said, "You know, A1 Cyclery is, was a thing, and this is not gonna be that thing." "Well, what are you gonna call it?" And I said, "Well, The Psychic Derailer." [laughs] Um, but when I have to go
• 56:07
  P-S-Y-C-H-I-C D-E-R-A-I-L-E-R every time, [laughs] 'Cause I say The Psychic Derailer and they say, "Cool. Huh?"
• 56:20
  [laughs] So but if you just look for The Psychic Derailer on all the si- on all the socials, uh, and then on YouTube, that's where you can find me. And as I say at the end of, uh, all of my videos, until next time,
• 56:38
  be nice, work hard, ride bikes, play music when you can. I'll talk to you soon. All right, Chris. Right on. Thank you. Thanks for being on the show, man. I really appreciate it. We'll talk to you again, I hope.
• 56:48
  My pleasure. Thanks. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Man. Ride on, ride on, ride on. Another podcast that was actually informative and entertaining at the same time. Right? When you get somebody that's gonna talk- [laughs]...
• 57:00
  almost all the time, that's, that's the way you gotta do it. I was, I'm glad it- Because, [laughs] because otherwise it's just us. [laughs] Yeah. But there is us to love as well. Yeah, right. I know. Yeah. But yes.
• 57:14
  So thanks again, everyone, for listening. Uh- We appreciate it... hopefully we'll have Jason Beckhouse on next week, 'cause by cracky, he's out on the road again. Sassy. Big Sassy. Big Sassy. Um, yeah.
• 57:28
  I guess here's the thing. [upbeat music] Bye. Dun, dun, dun.
• 57:35
  [upbeat music]