Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / Boxing Podcast: Declan Warrington Talks O’Shaquie Foster, Bobby Benton & Dalton Smith vs. Alberto Puello

Transcript

Boxing Podcast: Declan Warrington Talks O’Shaquie Foster, Bobby Benton & Dalton Smith vs. Alberto Puello · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's your guy, Lukie.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm back with the Midweek Podcast,
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I'm back with one of my favorite people from my time at Boxing Scene,
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Declan Warrington.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Decl, how are you doing?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to catch up with you.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Good, Lukie.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's very much my mate.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hanging in there, but I'm with Dex, so you're going to guide me through this.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: You wrote this wonderful story on Oshaki Foster and the team, Bobby Benton.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really great piece that I recommend people checking out.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you paint the picture for this fight with what you're seeing and kind
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: of allude to that story that you wrote?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, thank you for those very kind words.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd argue they're excessive, but I'll take them all the same.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've been paying attention to Bobby from afar to start with for a while now.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I loved Regis Progre at his peak.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thought he was a terrific fighter.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't think he necessarily got the credit he deserved.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I say that with the benefit of hindsight
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: because it's hindsight that's increasingly shown what a terrific trainer Bobby is.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because look, when trainers are less proven, it could be down to the fighter and Progre.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Really good talent, let's face it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Spent time around him for the first time in the lead up to Progre's title defence
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: in New Orleans when he didn't look great that night,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: but it was a bad opponent,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Danielito Zaria,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: you may remember,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: who made no desire to win,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: stayed on the back foot all night,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: and that's the worst kind of opponent Progre could ever hope for.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Spent more time around them again later that year when Progre fought Devin Haney.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'll interrupt my,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: admiration of Bobby to talk about the extent to which I want him to progray at
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: that fight,
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is fed into hell to the extent to which I've come to admire Bobby anyway.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what I remember around that fight was
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: that Haney's doing their very best to bully Regis.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're in San Francisco on Haney's home turf.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: The Haneys are on their way up anyway.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: He had, in his past fight,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: had that brilliant victory over Vasily Lomachenko as
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: the honest lightweight champion.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of the hottest properties in boxing.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: The Haneys are very much calling the shots in a way they never had to quite
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: that extent previously.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: They got this lucrative deal with Matchroom.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And on stage at the weigh-in, I remember being sat with you, actually, or sat very near you.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Was pro-grade by himself,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: stood there,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: chest out,
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: chin up,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: refusing to be intimidated by the Haneys and their very many security guards,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: despite their attempts to get under his skin.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember thinking, what a fighter.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, having that kind of attitude doesn't mean you fights, as we saw the following night.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: He got beaten convincingly because Haney was a horrible matchup for him,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: but style-wise, I mean, but...
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I say that just, again,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: that refusal to be intimidated is difficult to be so fearless
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: in those circumstances.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And he was fearless.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I also say that because Bobby was nowhere to be seen.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that in admiration of Bobby, again,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: because he's the polar opposite to Bill,
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: who wants to be seen and heard at every possible opportunity.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But that wasn't Bobby shying away from...
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Supporting his man.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's Bobby not needing to be the center of attention in any way, shape or form.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's Bobby also recognizing who Regis was as a personality.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: That ProGrey could be up there and be perfectly relaxed.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And probably it's a good way for ProGrey to get into the zone for a fight like that as well.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that was...
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Program and reflection was already declining that night,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: but that really was the beginning of the end for him, let's face it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Since when Oshaki Foster's career has really gone into gear and we've all come to,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: well actually I say we haven't all,
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: he's still not getting the credit he deserves,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: which is partly why I wrote that story.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: But Foster has proven himself one of the best fighters in the world,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: had a succession of very good wins against the odds,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: and is a vastly different fighter to pro great,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: which I think demonstrates Bobby's abilities as a trainer.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can...
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can often see trainers fight, train fighters in the same way.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can often see trainers try to turn fighters into another one.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think the very best trainers recognize the raw talents they've got and enhance those.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you can see that in both instances.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you speak to Bobby about Foster,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: he endlessly praises him,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: but endlessly praises him for his natural abilities and says that Foster's the one
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: who works his stuff out.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't Bobby trying to take any kind of credit.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ahead of a fight, I hope will establish him as the best in his weight division.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: When I say hope, I'm a risk now sounding like I'm both of their biggest fans.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me for that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope because I enjoy watching Foster fight.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are a number of very good matchups he could be involved in,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: potentially above his weight division as well if he wins.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Navarrete,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know he's popular,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: and I know he's capable of being entertaining,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: and he's certainly a committed fighter, but I've always found him awkward.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've found him quite ugly in the past,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: and I just think it would be a shame for the sport overall were he to win
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: because my personal belief is even if he wins this fight,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: his glass ceiling has been reached.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you bring up some great points.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Navarrete,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't look past the fact that Denis Baranchek,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: who we haven't really seen go to that next level outside of a fight here and there,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: he beat Navarrete moving up to lightweight,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: so I have some questions about is Navarrete at 130
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: because he doesn't feel comfortable at lightweight,
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: but he experimented moving up in weight.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: His last two opponents, yes, Nunez and Oscar Valdez, they're come-forward opponents.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of are tailor-made against Hobson Casaisao.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: That was a tricky fight when he didn't drop him.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Liam Wilson was a tricky fight.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Casaisao was an ugly fight as well.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't fun.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to be sitting here talking about, we need to re-watch that one for sure.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I say all that to say, I think Shock Foster is like the eighth best fighter in the world.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like if you were to say that to someone,
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: you're probably going to get more pushback than you should.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: excuse me,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just in the process of starting to answer this,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: realize I didn't do a good job at all of answering your question about what
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: the story is about.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: The story is...
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: A little about the rise of Shaki Foster,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: but really it's about the rise of Bobby Benton and who he's worked with in the past
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: because not that many people know that because Bobby's not one to shout about.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: He spent time in the gym around the likes of Manny Stewart and Angelo Dundee
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: and I had to push him to speak about them because he wanted to talk
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: about his other influences,
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: quite rightly because they probably were bigger influences on him,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: but The easy thing to do is to talk about Manny Stewart,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: to talk about Dundee,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: to talk about,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: grab the headlines that come with figures like that and kind of ride their coattails
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: to an extent.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that was never his desire.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: But as you say...
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Foster's not getting his credit.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I really liked about Progray and I also really like
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: about Foster is the extent to which they're blue-collar fighters.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Progray was never groomed for greatness and had a terrific career.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I would add, by the way, at the point at which Progray started to change his team.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of physical climbers are coming because Progray was an athletic fighter.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Fighters like that don't last well into their 30s.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the point at which he started to tweak his team and Benson's influence started
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: to decline also, I think, accelerated ProGate's decline.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: The tactics for that Haney fight, for example, were wrong.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bobby wasn't speaking to me about this on record,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't think he'd have too much of a problem with me saying it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Those weren't the tactics Bobby wanted for that fight.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I could have said it was a bad idea to march forward and try to walk Haney down.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing into Haney's hands.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: I could have said that also in the studio pro grade based on the fight he'd had
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: before that against Zaria.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Foster, to a point, was this...
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Prodigy as a team.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you're seeing that now in terms of it is a natural talent above all else,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: which is probably delivering the success he's now getting nowadays,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: but he took time to mature physically.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: there was a point at which the powers that be,
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I guess, were tempted to grooming for greatness, as I've just described it.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But That didn't go to plan and boxing being boxing got impatient and he was at risk
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: of not being on the scrap heap, but at risk of missing a boat certainly.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so he has had to come up the hard way,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: not being led by any of the top promoters until we reached world level really.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And Even those promos don't appear to favour him.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, I'm not convinced Top Rank are desperate for him to win the fight this weekend.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think they'd be quite happy to see Navarrete win because they see the value
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: in Navarrete's appeal as a message and so on and so forth
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: and market they've historically done well in.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So Foster and Bobby with Foster and indeed
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: with Progray are achieving what they're achieving against the odds.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I wanted to write about.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to give Bobby a platform to talk about Talk about those influences
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: so people know where he's come from because Texas isn't necessarily the hotbed
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: of boxing that the East Coast is, the West Coast is.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: It gets overlooked, and I don't think they deserve to be overlooked.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the other thing about,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: and you make great points,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: is with Bobby,
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: kind of him and Aaron Navarro,
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: the cut man,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: the genius of Bobby to me is he can take almost any guy that turns pro and make him
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: a TV-quality fighter.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just comes down to if you get that athletic fighter that can do things
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: that you get a shock foster who's got those X things, but.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: You look at all of his guys and their television quality fighters,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: you look at other people, they might get managers to send them fighters.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's getting guys from the local Texas community.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And getting the most out of their ability and taking them to pro levels.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've gotten to a place where everyone's like,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: oh, how many world champions do you have?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But like every fighter he has gets to a level of contention basically.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And to me,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: that just speaks to how good he is because him and Aaron are
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: the most blue collar trainers.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: They don't, they don't really ask for help.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: They don't look for help.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: They just build guys up and take real fights.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was fortunate again, as recently as May, to be in Houston for the Foster Ford fight.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that was a matter in promotion,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: so there's no reason that shouldn't feel like the cards are stacked
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: in Ford's favour.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's what a good promoter does, ultimately.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it felt like it was interesting to cover from a narrative perspective,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: certainly because they were both Texas-based fighters.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it was also interesting close up because of the extent to which it was all about Ford.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't necessarily feel like there was a mantle for Foster to assume in Texas,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: even if Foster did, as he did, win that night.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was very fortunate that Bobby invited me down to the gym that week
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: to spend some time there and I spent a bit of time with him going to and
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: from his gym and I believe the weigh-in if memory serves but it was
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: the following week he was on his way to Ghana to Now,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: you wouldn't hear anything about that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And let's face it,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: for a man based in Texas,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's not necessarily the most appealing or lucrative of trips.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: But to the points you were just making,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: you can be certain that as long as he is working with him,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: he will continue to give him everything he can and give him every chance
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: of succeeding at the highest level,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: which I don't think he's capable of succeeding at the highest level,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: but I do think he's capable of Succeeding at a high level.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he's getting Milan to a level, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think a lot of guys wouldn't get him there.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And ironically, didn't he just fight last week and he was in a fight of the year?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: And Bobby told me,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: he was thinking about Shock's interview where he's like,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be in a fight of the year.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he found himself cornering Milan Pratt in like a fight of the year,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: knockdown, drag out fight.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think is the heading into the last moments before this fight?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: What's the tone and tenor for you of this fight when you look at the two fighters?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Every time Foster's in one of these world title fights,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: it seems, there are judges desperate not to do him any favours.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: We saw that again in May when he beat Ford very convincingly.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So convincingly, he made Ford look like he didn't have a plan B.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: He made Ford and Ford's team look complacent, I thought.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I did make Foster the favourite for that fight,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: but I did see a fight in which Ford was capable of winning.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was just down to who forced...
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But Foster forced it into his fight far more easily and more convincingly
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: than I think all but a few,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Benton and a few others around him, gave him a chance to do it.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even then, one of the judges was pretty kind to Ford.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And look,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: maybe I'm being paranoid here on their behalf,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: not that it's my place to be,
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: but I can't help but think against a Mexican fighter that,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: again, I think top rank are pretty invested in.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: The judges won't be kind to me.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen this in the past.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I happen to think Navarrete is sufficiently awkward, rangy,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: so on and so forth,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: that Foster might,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: even some of Foster's intelligence might take longer than normal to figure him out.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it can work out that the most intelligent and textbook
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: of fighters can struggle all night,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: not necessarily to the extent they lose,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: but struggle all night against these unorthodox fighters because
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: the way they fight is just so alien.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the way Navarrete fights is certainly alien.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: But...
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of talent,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: unless Foster's underprepared for some reason,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: unless Foster started declining in a way that we haven't anticipated,
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Navarrete's capable of making it the physical contest
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: that would suit him.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think his dimensions mean
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: that Foster might end up looking pretty special if he...
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: If he succeeds in eluding him and negating him in the way that I'd like to think he's capable.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be a convincing win on my scorecards.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not ready to say for the judges, but I do make him a strong favorite.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an outlier here.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think Schock's going to stop him in eight to ten rounds.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's fought a guy that's like Navarrete in Ray Vargas.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Ray Vargas has a lot of the similar traits.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's just not as reckless.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: And Schock did well against that style.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that You know,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: not to sing the praises of Bobby or Shock,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: but it feels like every hard fight Shock goes into, people question Shock.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: He never goes into these fights as when he fought Stephen Fulton, oh, it's a 50-50 fight.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is Shock ready?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: He fights Ray Vargas.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is he ready?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: He has two losses, beat Shawn Fernandez.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is he ready?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's always about what Shock doesn't bring to the table, and I think that maybe...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's going to try to stop,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: to be perfectly honest,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: because Navarrete is a guy who we know has had weight issues in the past.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's talked about not having the conditioning, knowing a bit about Shaq from interviewing him.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think he takes that to heart,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: that people pick a guy that doesn't have the same physical conditioning
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: and commitment to the sport.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm kind of thinking he's going to stop him.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really interested.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've got some questions for you.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, How much of a risk do you think it is to attempt to stop Navarrete?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a risk, but the fight I'm seeing is he's going to be dominating with his jab.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I just see him when he's pivoting out, he's going to hit to the body of Navarrete.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing I noticed on film study is Navarrete's kind of got bully tendencies.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's really good going downhill,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: but when you start hitting him, he starts reacting a little funny.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: We saw it in the Liam Wilson fight,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: but we've seen it in other fights where he He loves going downhill,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: but when he gets hit, he kind of stays outside.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are going to be surprised that Shock is actually going to push
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: towards Navarrete at points in this fight.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have to say,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: if he does stop him,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a good shot for Foster to be the fighter of the year.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I say that in a year in which boxing has,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: for the most part, been desperately disappointing, but...
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Foster and his career hasn't been, at least so far.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can I ask also what you said there about people aren't desperate to give him credit?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that certainly has been the case.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's partly what made me want to write that feature.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that started to change at all throughout the course of the Ford fight,
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: which again,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: the odds are very much stacked in Ford's favour and also Justin being closer
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: to Shakur Stevenson and Stevenson back into the extent he is and Stevenson being
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: the fighter he is and the attention that comes with it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that would change,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: regardless of how you feel about that,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: do you think that would change further this weekend if he wins as you expect?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's a Regis Progre guy where it's like the world just decides like you
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: and me appreciate him,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: but there's like certain fighters have to do 50 million things
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: to get people's respect.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then some guys can just knock out one guy and they're like, he's really cool.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think the thing with Foster that hurts him and it sucks is he's a true outsider.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't really fit in anywhere outside of boxing.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he's not inherently the cool guy.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's just good at fighting.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that people always find ways to go, well, he's fighting this guy that I really like.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's why he's never been like,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: like he is a superstar in terms of talent,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: but the way he conducts himself isn't all.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's very humble, modest, blue collar.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to some people, Now it's all about pageantry and show more than talent in the ring.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's been overlooked because it's not really about the bull crap with him.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's been about pageantry and show,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: as you put it,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: more than about the ring for a long time now,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: which hasn't necessarily done a sport a disservice from a promotional perspective,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: but overall it can regularly do a sport a disservice.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: To come full circle to what you were asking and what we were talking about at the start,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: In May, again,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: after that brilliant performance,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bobby Benton was nowhere to be seen at Foster's post-fight press conference.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just stayed away,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: didn't want the limelight,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: didn't want the praise that arguably deserved that night as well.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Happy for Foster to get that praise, which of course Foster absolutely deserved.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it would do them favours,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: in the context that we're talking about,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: if Bobby were to be alongside Foster a bit more,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: to be more of a consistent figure in public, and also...
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: I guess draw the criticism that hopefully comes with it and maybe even do
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: that promotional thing,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: which I don't like when trainers do,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: but trainers are often there setting their fighters like they're the promoter
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: as well.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just being that voice that I guess consistently at least has been lacked
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: in Foster's career from a promotional perspective.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know Bobby and I know Bobby, man.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to be eating at the diner five minutes after the decision and
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: the minute he can leave.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bobby's never going to be sitting next to Shaq talking about his stuff.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's a real fight guy.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: He'll talk fights with you.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: He'll be eating steak and eggs, but you can't ask somebody to not be who they are.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And Bobby's never going to be about the attention and he's never going
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: to be pretentious or anything.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just who he is.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's one of the best trainers of this generation,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: but he's definitely not going to be waving a flag saying, look at me.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But would it help?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it could,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: but I kind of appreciate in this era of everyone being like,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather take a million followers than a million dollars because you need
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: the strength of your brand and people doing all these infomercials.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of like a guy that just shows up with a backwards trucker hat and can teach
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: the guy how to fight and goes and just eats breakfast somewhere and doesn't need
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: to tell everybody that he was a TV fighter's head coach, you know?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: It could help.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: But for me personally,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate like the realness of he treats being a boxing coach like someone treats
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: a job as opposed to trying to get a celebrity status out of it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hence, wanting to write that piece, by the way.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So let's shift gears because the other.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, you said something that I wanted to revisit.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go for it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And sorry, indeed, listener.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You said he's one of the best coaches of his generation.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite a claim.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of bracket are you putting him in?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who are the other names?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's below the Robert Garcia because Robert Garcia is tried and true.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: he's had now two pretty solid world champions that competed for a long period
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: of time, I believe at least seven or eight years.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he's had...
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Multiple runs of guys,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: and he could arguably have the best fighter of this era,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: and he's consistently running a gym that's got more people.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'd put him in the category,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: this will make people laugh, but maybe like the Ben Davison, you got Bobby Benton.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's above Ben Davison,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: but Ben Davison had some high profile wins and got that big notoriety.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion, the guys of the best generation coaches to me are like Dan Birmingham.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Bobby Benton,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: that's kind of the spot where he fits,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: where it's just these fight guys that show up and when you see them in a corner,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: you're like, gosh darn it, that guy means business.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And Bobby,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the other things is I can't wait for the scale tomorrow
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: because you know he's going to be like Matlock.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to look at those gloves and if anything's off with the gloves,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: he's going to tell them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if that scale is not to zero, Bobby's going to be pissed.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think, who would you put him in the realm of?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your tier of coach that Bob's in?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't wish to be at all disrespectful to Ben Davison,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: certainly at a time when he's getting criticism,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought that comparison was incredibly flattering.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Ben has earned yet anyway being put in the same category as Bobby,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm with you.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think, um, I mean, it's kind of, it's the old cliche, isn't it?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: About how fighters make trainers.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And Bobby has probably been held back a little
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Through not getting all those fighters that,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: for example, will go to someone like Robert Garcia now.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I struggle to argue with that from this generation.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got the so-called A-listers,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: the likes of Robert Garcia,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: who will get those fighters come to them and deserve them and justify that with
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: the success they have in them, then he's in that category just below them.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: as talented a coach,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: potentially capable in joining them, but needs the track record.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's partly why I say Ben isn't up there as well.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Needs the track record consistently at that highest level to,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, to justify his inclusion there, really.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: You using Robert Garcia is particularly interesting because,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: excuse me, his name is escaping me right now.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bo Zienis has come back to me.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bo Zienis was going through this phase of getting a lot of praise and deservedly
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: because his fight has been doing terrifically,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: but very much in favour of the month and came head to head with Garcia
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: in what looked like a 50-50 fight.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I still,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: with the benefit of hindsight,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: think Andy Cruz was capable of winning that fight against Raymond Murataya and
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: yet...
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It ended up being Muratai's night.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a reminder to me when I fancied Cruz that night of the success
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: of Garcia's gym and the success of Garcia as a trainer.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think the very best trainers,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: despite us all saying,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: rightly,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: because it's true that fighters make trainers,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the very,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: very best trainers can sometimes lead fighters
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: to victories you don't think they're going to get.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Give them an extra 5% there somewhere.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Garcia is one of those fighters.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Benson has a way to go to get there, but there's no shame in that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now I'm going to switch over.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Another person in Fighter of the Year running that no one's talking about,
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: at least in the US, is Dalton Smith.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's taking on Albert Puello, and I hate this fight for Dalton Smith.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is the worst matchup for him in a hometown defense.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a guy that's going to try to play tag with him, frustrate him, and all this stuff.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming off the big win.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's the British guy who gets a win in America.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: He has an injury.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like people are now forgetting that big win that happened in January.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Break this down.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: In some respects, I'm going to contradict a lot of what we've just been talking about.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: In some respects, it's going to be a continuation.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I guess in a lot of ways,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Dalton Smith is kind of a blue-collar fighter,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: not necessarily obviously fancied by the biggest-name promoters,
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: certainly not given the best of platforms.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: He had that terrific win.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Beating Super Matias to win a title and won it convincingly, explosively.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't like, you know, close on the scorecards by any stretch.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I say this with the benefit of hindsight,
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Matthias was in decline, and I think that may have been overlooked a little bit.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't say this with the benefit of hindsight.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I always thought at the highest level, Matthias was overrated.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: But that doesn't stop that being a terrific win for Smith.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, immediately after that fight, he deserved...
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: More credit, I think, than he got for it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's been undermined by this fight with Puello being delayed because,
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know, you can have that loss of momentum.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something else that has undermined him is just...
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: To the extent to which it's been on ice this year, he should have fall.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this should be his third fight potentially of the year.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's an injury as well as contributing to that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't feel like the forces would have been there in the spool for that
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: to happen if he'd fall back when they were supposed to.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't necessarily sound like he'd be in the ring now.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's also a promotional thing.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think Matt Schoen have had their eye off the ball with him, so to speak, or been complacent.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Matt Schoen can be really positive for him in the long term, don't get me wrong.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: But for example,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: one of the reasons Smith, and this won't, it's not just in the US, you'll detect it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: In the UK,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: his profile hasn't been enhanced in the way that he deserves off the back of
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: that success.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Partly because the narratives that have been so
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: The extent to which the heavyweight scene has been dominant in the UK again.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a bad thing necessarily because we do,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: even though it's in decline, have a very good heavyweight scene right now.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: But again, that
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I mention that is partly because
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: of what I think is Matrim being distracted,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: distracted by the kind of Ben,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: let's call it a saga because that's what it feels like right now.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And also Fury-Joshua and the negotiations for that and the extent to
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: which Joshua remains such a priority for them.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But Smith needs a convincing victory here.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Matrim, I think, needs Smith to really deliver for them here because...
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: The fight in December against Fiori could be Joshua's last fighter.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's not, Joshua is definitely declining.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And Madstream still has some very good fighters.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: They've just announced a contract extension with Jaron Ennis, haven't they?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: He could be one of the jewels in the crown.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: But they're about to lose the jewel in the crown in the UK in Joshua.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And at least I suspect they are.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: And they need some longer term replacements for that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Smith has the qualities to be pretty influential for them in the UK.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that mantle hasn't been seized.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But to come back to you, yeah, this fight concerns me for him.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I...
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's some cynicism going into this because judging in the UK doesn't appear
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: to be showing any signs of improving and I find it difficult to think that one
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: of our few champions in his hometown in his first title defence will have
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: the judges too strongly against him and if nothing else Smith will be busy
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: and aggressive and Judges find that quite easy to reward.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Puello isn't a kind match-up for him.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Smith would be better against someone willing to trade with him,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: wanting to stand toe-to-toe to him like Matias.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Puello's capable of being cagey.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And even if on my scorecard,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: on your scorecard,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Smith deserves a victory on work rate,
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he will be as convincing as he was against Matias.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think he will be relieved to kind of get an awkward night out of the way.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which doesn't mean,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's not unthinkable that Puello on my scorecard,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: your scorecard certainly ends up winning the fight.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think it will work that way, at least for the judges.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Last one, Dubois, Wardley 2.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: What was it like being there?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Give me the insight.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of strange actually,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: they say the O2 had sold out,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: it looked like it had sold out, but the crowd didn't really feel that invested.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's partly it being an unremarkable undercard,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: partly maybe just a change in culture that we're witnessing in a lot of places
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: in 2026.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: The rise of Instagram and influencers kind of making big fight nights things
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: to be seen, to be attending, as opposed to things to be truly invested in.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's also...
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: An oversimplified answer because the O2 Arena is in Greenwich,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: where I actually happen to live in London,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: by the way, and Daniel Dubois is from Greenwich.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: But Daniel Dubois doesn't really have a recognised fan base.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was still a pro Fabio Wardley crowd.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of shame that Dubois doesn't have that actually because he's
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: a consistently entertaining fighter and he has that erratic streak
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: which means you can't necessarily rely on him to be at his best
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: but there's even something unpredictable and entertaining about that.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was an appealing matchup,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: even if,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: like me,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: you didn't think it should be happening anywhere near as quickly as it was after
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: the first fight.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that first fight was a very appealing matchup and
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: in its own way would have contributed to the appeal for this.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But my worst, my biggest fears unfolded on the night.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I hoped Audley could improve on that first fight.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was concerned that his punch resistance,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: previously so impressive,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Too impressive,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: frankly,
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: in that first fight would be gone after the back of all the punishment he took in
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: that first fight.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was concerned that Dubois would put it on him immediately and
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: the punch resistance wouldn't be there.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Confidently think that would be the case that early on in the fight.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it would come soon,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: but I knew Wardley would come to win and Wardley is still capable
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: of being dangerous early if he can land because he can still punch.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt about that.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe his punch resistance wouldn't be as bad as I feared it would be.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And again, Dubois can be unpredictable.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: But Woodley looked good when we first spoke to him when the fight was announced.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Woodley looked himself, looked good during fight week when we spoke to him.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought Woodley looked good on fight night on his way to the ring.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that there was always a risk that,
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know, almost like PTSD, he'd be in the ring with Dubois and suddenly fold.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he folded psychologically, I think.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Dubois still think his power is underrated, by the way.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think as soon as Dubois started to learn with any kind of malice,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wally just wasn't capable of taking it anymore.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it showed that Wally is not a well-leveled fighter anymore.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Showed how wonderful his achievements before,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: up to and including the two Dubois fights actually, have been.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the money he's made has been.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it also showed that In the way that those around him didn't necessarily look
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: after him in the way that he ought to have done during that first fight
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: and didn't necessarily look after him in the way that he ought to have done
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: for this fight for it happening so soon.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a counter argument for that because Wardley hadn't earned millions
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: upon millions in his career and it was another pay-per-view fight.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, let's cash in while we can.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I see the logic in that being in his long-term financial future.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: But Wardley spoke afterwards about Coming back better,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Wardley is capable of coming back better.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's certainly not capable of reinventing himself.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if he's declining physically and can't reinvent himself,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: then he shouldn't be put in fights where he can get hurt.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he is now,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: we are now talking about his long-term health because of the nature of
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: that first fight and previous fights like the one he had with Fraser Clarke as well.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, he lost a lot of fights, but his power bailed him out.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: He was losing a lot of fights.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people overlook that because of the story with Wardley.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And those were terrific wins.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think Hooney will go on to have a pretty good career and will continue
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: to give Wally praise for winning that night.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: The Parker win was very,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: very impressive and likely to be the one we continue to remember as the best
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: of Wally's career.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And of course,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: those had plenty to do with why he was kept in the ring for as long as he was during
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: that first fight with Dubois.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the dice kept getting rolled.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: He kept defying the odds.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can only do that so many times and you certainly shouldn't do
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: that too many times in a sport like the one he's involved in.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, kept you a little long.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's Declan Warrington.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Declan, where can people support you and follow all your great work?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Freelance nowadays,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: so whoever is willing to pay me most recently did the Bois-Woodley fights for
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: the Times and Sunday Times.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: The Bobby Benton feature was in Boxing News.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I expect to continue writing for both.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: But as we speak,
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: as you know,
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in Bali and I'm on my way to Australia where I'm hoping
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: to cover some fights out there again in the coming months.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Probably Twitter's the best place.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not necessarily as active on Twitter as I should be,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: but if I'm responding to something,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: it's probably because I'm at least vaguely invested in it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm vaguely invested in it,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: it's probably because I'm attempting to cover it in some way, shape or form.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've been a great podcast guest and thank you.