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From Employee To Owner: How She Bought The Magazine She Worked For · Making Cents

• 0:00
  Ever wanted to turn to your boss and say, I could run this place better and you should let me.
• 0:05
  In reality, you probably want to phrase it a little more diplomatically than that, but it is possible because Sarah Murray did a version of it.
• 0:14
  She was working at Fashion Quarterly and.
• 0:17
  Had ideas about what it could be.
• 0:19
  If only she had the freedom to bring those ideas to life.
• 0:23
  So she called the boss and said, you should let me buy this magazine off.
• 0:27
  You took a little bit of wrangling, but now Sarah is the editor in chief, publisher, and owner of Fashion Quarterly, one of New Zealand's biggest fashion titles.
• 0:39
  Feels like my whole career was leading up to that point.
• 0:42
  It was quite a bizarre feeling when I finally, you know, was the owner of Fashion Quarterly.
• 0:46
  And it felt like I was like, yeah, like every single job I had got me to that point.
• 0:50
  And her vision has turned it into a huge operation with events, websites, social media, a whole lot of people depending on her for their salaries and keeping their lives running.
• 1:02
  He was like, you'll regret this if you don't do it.
• 1:04
  And I was like, oh, no business plan, no finance solutions?
• 1:09
  Like, I was like, okay, I better.
• 1:11
  I guess I can talk to the bank.
• 1:12
  Like, I had no idea what I was doing.
• 1:14
  And while you might love your job, being responsible for the business of it, the payroll, the tax, the future direction of the company, well, that's a big change.
• 1:25
  And it is a really hard position to be the editor and the owner.
• 1:29
  This is like the bane of my life is balancing those two things.
• 1:34
  So.
• 1:34
  Welcome to Making Sense.
• 1:35
  It's the podcast people who want financial freedom without giving up their coffee.
• 1:40
  I'm Frances Cook, a financial journalist and fellow financial freedom seeker who makes money simple for you.
• 1:46
  Today, she had ideas for how to run the company she worked at, so she bought it as you do.
• 1:53
  This episode of Making Sense is brought to you in partnership with Odoo, the all in one business management platform that brings everything you need to run your business into one place, fully integrated and actually affordable.
• 2:06
  Go to odoo.com that's o-double o.com for more.
• 2:10
  I want to help as many people as possible build a better life for themselves by understanding and taking control of their money.
• 2:18
  You can be part of how that happens.
• 2:20
  First, make sure you're subscribed wherever you like to listen, whether it's YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.
• 2:26
  And then send your favorite episode to a mate.
• 2:29
  Then we can all level up with money together.
• 2:31
  The show grows, and I can keep bringing you the money info that actually Moves the dial hi, Sarah, welcome in.
• 2:38
  Look, you are in one of those areas I think a lot of people look at and think, it's so fun, it's so glamorous and yet actually quite a lot of hard work and quite hard to break into.
• 2:51
  Start me at the beginning of your career, what piqued your interest in fashion and beauty and how did you first start breaking into that industry?
• 3:01
  I think my interest in magazines was always.
• 3:04
  Probably came from my mum.
• 3:05
  She always had magazines and she'd always, like, bring them out and be like, what would you choose here?
• 3:09
  And would, you know, be.
• 3:12
  This is when I was very young, so then by the time I was a teen, I just became obsessed with them and I loved them.
• 3:17
  I just loved the smell, the touch, the feel, the look of them, everything.
• 3:21
  So I'd always be getting them cutting, you know, which now if you know, and cut out a magazine, I'm like, oh, God.
• 3:26
  Like, dagger to the heart.
• 3:26
  But I'd be cutting out, you know, inspiration pictures from it, models, outfits, and I guess it just sort of came from there.
• 3:34
  I just loved writing, so I always knew I wanted to be a writer and it was sort of, I guess, a good merge of the two.
• 3:40
  That's really cool.
• 3:41
  So what was your first step into the industry?
• 3:44
  When you've got all this beautiful inspo in front of you, you're like, I'm actually.
• 3:48
  I'm gonna do this.
• 3:48
  How'd you break in?
• 3:50
  I basically was obsessed with the industry and I started interning for a fashion stylist who was the fashion editor of Clio at the time.
• 4:00
  And so I basically was her assistant.
• 4:01
  That's Marina Dydovic, she's a very famous stylist now and she lives in Australia.
• 4:06
  And.
• 4:06
  And I would be taping the shoes on set, you know, because you couldn't scuff them, and steaming clothes, picking up, dropping off, just doing whatever was needed, getting lunches.
• 4:16
  So after I was interning, I was doing history and politics at uni and then I finished and moved to London and I just couldn't understand why no one would give me a job in journalism, which now makes me
• 4:28
  laugh so much.
• 4:29
  And I was obsessed with getting a job in journalism, but everyone's like, where's your journalism qualification?
• 4:34
  And I was like, oh, I don't have one, but I've got this.
• 4:35
  And they were like, okay, thank you, Goodbye.
• 4:38
  So I sort of got into fashion PR and that was interesting.
• 4:43
  I think I was working in a real small boutique agency, so it was tiny, you know, and just you know, practically squalor, I'd go so far to say.
• 4:52
  And then applying for every journalism job I could get.
• 4:54
  Couldn't get one.
• 4:55
  So then finally applied to my postgrad in journalism and came back to do that at automatic.
• 5:00
  And once I did that, I feel like it was much easier.
• 5:03
  And I got a job at Sunday magazine.
• 5:05
  Started as the editorial assistant, and it all went from there.
• 5:09
  That first move, I went to ACP Media, which was the old Bower Media.
• 5:13
  And I remember walking in and they had this yellow lino lino road.
• 5:19
  And the editorial assistant at the time for Claire was like, this is the yellow brick road.
• 5:23
  And I was like, oh, yeah.
• 5:25
  Like, I was like, here I am.
• 5:26
  And it was just all these, like, beautiful, glamorous woman, but also, like, really intelligent woman.
• 5:31
  You could tell they all were passionate about what they did, and they were all like, really smart, you know, like, working woman.
• 5:37
  And I was like, oh, I've arrived.
• 5:39
  Like, this is where I should be.
• 5:40
  But it took me a long time to actually get to that point.
• 5:44
  Is there anything that you look back from those early sort of scrappy years and the unglamorous work that you had to do that you still use now a lesson that you learned or a thing that you did?
• 5:56
  I think it's just always do that little bit extra, and I've always taken that on board.
• 6:01
  I remember when I was interning back at Clio and she magazine was around, and for some reason, they desperately needed someone to do something.
• 6:08
  And it was about the man drought in New Zealand.
• 6:10
  And I was probably, like, 18, no idea what this was about, but I, like, threw myself into it.
• 6:15
  And they're like, can you go interview eight women about it?
• 6:18
  And so I went out, like, went and did it all around the country, and then interviewed 20.
• 6:22
  And when I came back, the editor was like, wow, you did 20?
• 6:24
  And I was like, yeah, I just thought I'd do some more for you.
• 6:27
  And she still talks about.
• 6:28
  I've seen it at an event before, and she still talks about it to this day, how I, like, went that extra mile.
• 6:33
  And I think that is something, you know, like, also as an editor now, like, if someone's like, oh, I've done this sidebar for that column, or I've, you know, I've given you this, or I've got some more images
• 6:41
  you could use on social.
• 6:42
  I'm like, yes, like, great.
• 6:44
  You know.
• 6:45
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:45
  Just when you're in those really competitive moments, just taking that little bit of initiative to be like, you know what I Thought you might like this.
• 6:53
  Maybe they use it, maybe they don't.
• 6:54
  But it makes an impression that you're trying, you're putting in the effort.
• 6:58
  And actually I've very few times seen that extra effort not be used.
• 7:02
  It can usually go somewhere.
• 7:04
  I agree.
• 7:04
  There's always a place for it.
• 7:05
  Especially now when you've got print, digital, social, you know, there's always a place for it, 100%.
• 7:11
  So as you were climbing the ladder, at least from my perspective, at least, there might be other sort of moments that were heart stopping for you.
• 7:17
  But I look at your sort of climb through the ranks and there's a couple of real pivotal ones.
• 7:23
  The Zooma Doom and then having a difficult conversation with your boss.
• 7:29
  You were part of Fashion Quarterly sort of when they had a huge change.
• 7:39
  Walk me through what happened, because this was Covid era, wasn't it?
• 7:43
  Yeah, no, I'd been at the, at Bauer previously at Fashion Quarterly.
• 7:47
  So then when Covid happened, they had the Zoom or Doom, which is essentially like they called everyone to a Zoom conference and said, that's a company's gone, goodbye.
• 7:58
  And I luckily was freelancing at that time, but a lot of my friends were in that meeting, you know, it was massive, you know, like just like, okay, we're closing down every single magazine, like all these people's careers
• 8:09
  and the whole industry.
• 8:11
  So that was like a big moment that for me it kind of worked out fortunately because then Fashion Quarterly got sold to via media and then that's when they had an editor for a little while.
• 8:23
  But when my youngest child was six months old, they actually approached me to come on as the editor and I was, it was like my dream job.
• 8:30
  I was absolutely thrilled.
• 8:32
  I love that though.
• 8:33
  Like there are, there are so many women that I've talked to that have these big life changing moments when their kids are quite little.
• 8:43
  Because frankly, life, I'm sure, is not overwhelming enough at that point.
• 8:48
  And it's hard because often you have kids at this stage in your life when your career is also taking off and you've built up a bunch of skills that are now coming to fruition.
• 9:01
  And you have to balance getting these big opportunities plus your life that you don't really want to miss out on either.
• 9:10
  So what was that like when they said, hey, dream job, what do you reckon?
• 9:14
  I mean, immediately I was like, I want this job.
• 9:16
  You know, I knew I wanted it, but I had three kids under five and I was like, God, this is just the worst time, especially with a 6 month old.
• 9:24
  I was like, if he was a year, you know, maybe if he was a year, I could, I'd be fine.
• 9:29
  But then my husband said to me, he was like, you'll regret this if you don't do it.
• 9:33
  And I was like, oh, I know, I know, you're right.
• 9:35
  And so I said yes.
• 9:37
  And I just, I started on three days a week, you know, real minimum.
• 9:40
  But of course did five anyway, you know, as you do.
• 9:43
  Yeah, the classic, the classic mom trap classic.
• 9:46
  The classic of, oh, I'll just work part time and then you end up working for part time pay with full time hours.
• 9:50
  But it is funny because it's like if I didn't, if I hadn't, if I had said, okay, no, I'm gonna stay at home with the kids for a bit longer, then that whole opportunity might have gone.
• 9:59
  It might not have.
• 10:00
  I could have ended up somewhere else.
• 10:02
  But I had this real pulled Fashion Quarterly and I always had.
• 10:05
  And I, you know, even when I was in my bower days, it was like that was where I wanted to go.
• 10:10
  I was to be the editor.
• 10:11
  And back then it was quite.
• 10:13
  Not hierarchical, but it was hard to get an editor's job, you know, because people didn't move out of them that often.
• 10:18
  And you had to sort of be in the right position to get there.
• 10:21
  Yeah, 100%.
• 10:23
  What was it about Fashion Quarterly that really made you fall in love and say, I just need to make this work.
• 10:31
  However we make it work.
• 10:32
  The fashion element, like I loved, you know, I did history and politics and I loved that side of journalism, you know, like the real gritty stories and more investigative pieces.
• 10:42
  But I also loved the fashion side.
• 10:44
  And I feel like growing up in that industry, I was really torn between which side I liked best.
• 10:50
  And then one day I was kind of like, I don't know why I'm like, fashion was always such a passion for me and it was like I was just trying to write, you know, the big cover stories.
• 10:58
  But actually I was probably more suited to fashion journalism.
• 11:02
  Yeah.
• 11:02
  And it's like, I didn't want to admit it because a lot of people see fashion as, you know, frivolous and not important, which I was obviously, you know, thought it was important.
• 11:10
  And, you know, there's so much more to it.
• 11:12
  It's about how people identify themselves and how we present ourselves to the world.
• 11:16
  And I think I finally like gave myself permission to like, really get into it and, you know, show how much I love it, show how much I love New Zealand designers and then, you know, put my Heart and
• 11:28
  Soul into a publication.
• 11:29
  Must have been interesting taking on that role though, right?
• 11:32
  Because the new owners weren't your typical fashion magazine owners.
• 11:37
  So walk me through how that went.
• 11:40
  So the owners, when it was via media, they had a big car kind of portfolio and very masculine.
• 11:45
  All the titles are very masculine.
• 11:47
  And they bought Home and Fashion Quarterly.
• 11:49
  So I think for them, that was them stepping into the premium magazine market.
• 11:54
  But when I came on, it was just.
• 11:57
  I just felt like we were sort of at odds sometimes, you know, like I was in it, but I had all these ideas of where I wanted it to go, and they obviously had ideas of what they wanted.
• 12:05
  So I could see us going down different paths.
• 12:08
  Was there anything in particular that brought it to a head for you that you were like, we really need to figure out these divergent paths?
• 12:18
  There wasn't one particular moment.
• 12:20
  It was more that we were going in these different paths.
• 12:23
  And then I was so frustrated.
• 12:25
  You know, when you just get so frustrated, my husband said to me, why don't you just ask if you can buy it?
• 12:29
  And I just, like, laughed at him because, like, I had always wanted to have my own magazine.
• 12:34
  But honestly, it seemed like such a far away dream.
• 12:37
  I didn't think it was possible.
• 12:38
  I didn't even think I'd be able to, you know, own a magazine.
• 12:42
  Like, I couldn't quite get that through my head.
• 12:45
  So I thought about that for a couple of months and then I was like, no, I'm gonna do it.
• 12:49
  I'm gonna do it.
• 12:50
  And I had to, like, get the courage up to ask my boss if he would sell me the magazine.
• 12:56
  And I finally did it.
• 12:57
  There's probably, honestly four or five months of thinking about it.
• 13:00
  Later asked him, he said, no, right?
• 13:05
  And then I was like, okay, cool.
• 13:06
  Like, if you change your mind, let me know.
• 13:08
  And I was sort of thinking, God, is he gonna fire me now?
• 13:11
  Like, that I've asked this.
• 13:12
  But then he came back to me a week later and said, okay, I will sell it to you.
• 13:17
  Wow.
• 13:17
  And it all went from there.
• 13:18
  And so I had, at that point, no business plan, no finance solutions.
• 13:22
  Like, I was like, okay, I better.
• 13:24
  I guess I can talk to the bank.
• 13:25
  Like, I had no idea what I was doing.
• 13:27
  How do you research?
• 13:29
  I don't know how much you can say about this.
• 13:31
  Some of this might be commercially sensitive, so just tell me what you can.
• 13:34
  But how do you research, you know, how much you should pay them for it?
• 13:39
  And then like, what did you do?
• 13:40
  Did you go to the bank and say, Want to add to my mortgage.
• 13:44
  Like, how do you figure out those sorts of nitty gritty but important details?
• 13:48
  Well, luckily my husband has a medical device.
• 13:51
  Startup companies, he's an engineer.
• 13:53
  So he was so good in like, showing me what to do because I was completely out of my depth.
• 13:58
  But basically we valued it.
• 14:00
  I can't say exactly how, but it was valued using the financials from via media.
• 14:05
  And then we went to the bank and we put a business plan together and they did say it was the best business plan they've ever read, which I was like, oh, it's because, you know, we're journalists.
• 14:14
  And that was that.
• 14:16
  I love that.
• 14:16
  So basically just got stuck in, did a bunch of research.
• 14:20
  But I also want to give a shout out because there's a little bit of a through line here of you having the most amazingly supportive partner who was totally fine with you making these big, big risky swings and
• 14:30
  being like, yep, nope, here we go.
• 14:32
  Like you.
• 14:32
  You've got it, babe.
• 14:34
  And it's.
• 14:35
  It's a classic thing that they say, who you choose in life, like, love, very important.
• 14:41
  But being on the same page and having someone who supports you and believes in you and you push towards goals together.
• 14:49
  Who you choose in life is also a very much financial decision.
• 14:55
  How important has it been having someone who is at home on your team and getting stuck in with you?
• 15:01
  Yeah, I mean, I always say, like, he obviously drives me crazy, like any husband would, but he honestly had that business kind of Nelson, I didn't even have in my, you know, like, any experience with.
• 15:13
  And he every day, like, just teaches me.
• 15:15
  Like, I feel like I was mentor.
• 15:17
  I always joke because he just teaches me so much and I think a lot of people could get really frustrated.
• 15:22
  And I do get very frustrated with him sometimes.
• 15:25
  I'll show him the covers, I'm like, what do you think?
• 15:26
  And he'll like.
• 15:27
  He's like, that one.
• 15:27
  And I'm like, oh, no, it's that one.
• 15:29
  But incorrect opinion, my love.
• 15:31
  Sorry, that was wrong.
• 15:32
  That was absolutely wrong.
• 15:33
  Fashion and art is subjective.
• 15:35
  But not this time.
• 15:35
  You're wrong.
• 15:37
  But when it comes to sort of business, I do listen to him and I do learn a lot.
• 15:40
  And it is really nice having someone in your corner, like, backing you and also just owning a business, having someone who's not within it.
• 15:47
  Like, he's sort of our managing director, but not, you know, helicoptering us over us.
• 15:53
  It's more in him, more me and him have those conversations.
• 15:56
  But it's nice to be able to talk to someone out of the business about what's happening because, you know, you've got employees and you don't want to be like, oh God, this has happened and scare everyone, or, you
• 16:05
  know, like, you've got to be quite careful of how you talk to everyone.
• 16:09
  Whereas with him it's, you know, I can go home and really get into like what we need and where we're going in the vision.
• 16:16
  Yeah, yeah.
• 16:17
  How important to have it.
• 16:18
  Because like you said, it's a really interesting position, I imagine that you find yourself in as someone who was a journalist, now a business owner, but also as an editor and then also an owner.
• 16:31
  Those, those are two quite different roles as well.
• 16:34
  And you've got to be able to lead the team in a way that, that I imagine was quite different from how it was when you were working alongside everyone.
• 16:45
  Like, what was that transition like as you went from coworker to editor to business owner?
• 16:52
  Yeah, I think how I handle myself is probably the difference.
• 16:55
  I don't think I can ask them all, but I don't think I change too much to the team because for them it's like, I'm still the editor and it is a really hard position to be the editor and
• 17:05
  the owner.
• 17:06
  Like, I say that all the time because it's just conflicts with each other.
• 17:09
  You know, as the editor, I know certain things I need to do and then as the owner I know certain things.
• 17:14
  But as far as the team's concerned, like I sit with them.
• 17:16
  We are like one team and I feel like it would be doing them a disservice if then I'm like, right now I'm like going to sit in this corner and be the owner and not sort of have that
• 17:26
  relationship with them.
• 17:27
  And then also the day to day things of being a business owner, you know, you're not just writing articles and things I imagine, you know, payroll and funding and the direction, the strategy.
• 17:42
  What's that been like to sort of zoom out, take that bird's eye view rather than getting your hands dirty every day?
• 17:47
  I mean, it is hard.
• 17:48
  Like, I definitely think owning a business is one of the hardest things I've ever done and I think it's rewarding as well.
• 17:54
  You know, like, you get so much more reward from it than I ever would of when I was just an editor.
• 18:00
  But yeah, you do have to think I feel like I'm just constantly working, which again, probably not a great thing to say, but, you know, my mind's always ticking even when I'm not working.
• 18:08
  If I'M going for a walk.
• 18:09
  I'm still thinking about things and thinking about how we can grow things or what we need to do or how we can reach these people and it just, you know, ticks along.
• 18:17
  Yeah.
• 18:17
  Oh, I so identify.
• 18:19
  I've had to put a hard ban on myself.
• 18:20
  I'm not supposed to bring up work things at 9pm or 6am it's funny.
• 18:25
  You should say that because sometimes my husband will like bring something up when I'm cooking dinner, you know, like.
• 18:30
  And I'm like, can you just schedule a meeting with me during working hours?
• 18:33
  Because I just don't want to talk about it right now.
• 18:35
  Like, great, happy to talk about it.
• 18:38
  But now I just want to cook dinner and like be at home and, you know.
• 18:41
  But I'm sure you're the same that you have these ideas.
• 18:44
  You just want to like get them out.
• 18:45
  Yeah, I literally.
• 18:47
  It's so funny.
• 18:47
  Literally two days ago, on the way into the kids weekend soccer, my husband started talking to me about like one of the more sort of stressful aspects of the business.
• 18:57
  And I was like, can we just like, yes, this is an important conversation.
• 19:01
  Can we put a pin in it?
• 19:02
  Can we make a note for talking.
• 19:04
  About this on Monday morning, schedule a meeting in.
• 19:08
  Because right now I want to be in the zone of going to see a bunch of five year olds play soccer really badly.
• 19:13
  Yeah.
• 19:14
  Because you guys work quite closely too, don't we?
• 19:16
  We do, yeah.
• 19:16
  My husband runs it with me too.
• 19:17
  And it is really interesting, isn't it?
• 19:19
  Navigating that dynamic between having important business conversations and I don't think when you own a business, you, you don't so switch off from it.
• 19:28
  It's not nine to five hours and it shouldn't be.
• 19:30
  Like you should care about it.
• 19:32
  But at the same time you do have to have those mental breaks, especially on some of those trickier bits.
• 19:37
  Right.
• 19:37
  You have to be able to switch off.
• 19:38
  Otherwise.
• 19:38
  Do you ever worry about.
• 19:39
  How long have you been doing this now?
• 19:41
  Three years.
• 19:42
  Yeah.
• 19:42
  So do you have to worry about, you know, burnout and all that stuff, preserving your energy?
• 19:48
  Not really.
• 19:48
  Because I feel like I don't know what's wrong with me.
• 19:50
  Maybe it's because my dad was like, he's an Irish immigrant and so my sister and I just feel like we've got this like crazy work ethic which we can only say comes from him and my mum.
• 19:59
  Like they were just hard workers.
• 20:01
  So we.
• 20:01
  I feel like I can just work and work and work, which is a game be crazy I just keep going.
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• 21:22
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• 21:28
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• 21:31
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• 21:36
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• 21:39
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• 21:44
  All right, back to it.
• 21:47
  What's been the biggest thing that you have learned as you leveled up into the business owner aspect that has helped you take on those responsibilities?
• 21:57
  One of the biggest lessons, I always say, is being comfortable with being uncomfortable.
• 22:02
  Because you're going to have so many uncomfortable conversations.
• 22:06
  You know, whether it's like, internally or externally, it's always things happening, you know, with the economy, things you can't change.
• 22:12
  And you just have to be able to ride it out and not get stressed.
• 22:15
  Like, if you're going to get like very, very stress, you're going to lead to burnout.
• 22:19
  But you just have to kind of be like, okay, this is maybe just a blimp.
• 22:23
  Like, let's just relax and keep going and then see what tomorrow brings.
• 22:27
  100%.
• 22:28
  Yeah, roll with the punches a bit.
• 22:29
  Like, care about the details, care about the business, but maybe taking the emotional aspect out of it.
• 22:35
  Yes, I think really helps.
• 22:36
  Yeah.
• 22:37
  Okay.
• 22:37
  So I think as well, there's a lot of people who will love this idea that you saw the direction that the company was going and when.
• 22:46
  I have other thoughts on where we could take this.
• 22:49
  Buy the business, what a boss move, and then take things the direction you want to go.
• 22:54
  So what were the differences and how you wanted to run the place and did it pan out in reality?
• 23:00
  Yeah, I think it did.
• 23:01
  I mean, for me, I wanted to make it this real 360 model.
• 23:05
  You know, it was always print.
• 23:06
  And by the time I came on board, there was digital and social, but I knew we could do so much more.
• 23:11
  And I also wanted to bring events into it.
• 23:14
  We'd started doing one or two events, but I could see that was a real place for people to go.
• 23:18
  And I always say we like to meet our audience where they are.
• 23:21
  So there are print readers.
• 23:23
  You know, people love print and they're still.
• 23:24
  They're always gonna love print.
• 23:25
  They're always gonna love that tactile nature of it.
• 23:28
  But then there's always people who just want to reach you on social media, like that's the only way they want to engage with you.
• 23:34
  And then it's the same with events.
• 23:36
  Like, I found, like, people really want to come to events.
• 23:38
  They want to meet the team, they want to listen to a good conversation or be involved somehow just by being there.
• 23:44
  So that was sort of one direction and the other, I guess, other element was like, I really just wanted to like, push hard on the creative side and make every shoot look absolutely incredible and, you know, use lots
• 23:56
  of freelancers.
• 23:57
  And, you know, we did do all that, but I just wanted to like it up a notch.
• 24:00
  I love that.
• 24:01
  And it's, it's funny, right?
• 24:03
  Because, you know, also as someone who's in the independent media business, like, I look at the media world and there's, there's a lot to be worried about.
• 24:11
  There are some big concerns out there.
• 24:13
  Concerns, yes, it's not the easiest of businesses.
• 24:18
  And yet at the same time, I do think there's more opportunity than sometimes we talk about there being.
• 24:25
  I think there can be a lot of pessimism and gloom and a lot of ignoring the opportunities are there.
• 24:29
  And I look at what you've created there with this ecosystem where it all feeds back into each other.
• 24:35
  It's all very on brand for.
• 24:37
  For what you are giving people.
• 24:38
  You're giving people a similar thing, but in different places and in different ways, and they all feed into and reinforce each other.
• 24:46
  And I'm like, that, to me, is the future of media.
• 24:49
  The idea of just putting out a magazine and calling it a day, that must have been lovely.
• 24:54
  But unfortunately a thing of the past.
• 24:56
  And to create this ecosystem that you've built, to me, that's the future.
• 24:59
  I mean, do you see any other areas where you're like, okay, we've got this and we're going to continue to evolve sort of this or that direction?
• 25:08
  Yeah.
• 25:08
  I mean, I feel like I'm constantly doing that and I have to stop myself, you know, and just focus on one thing at a time.
• 25:14
  Like, at the beginning or end of last year, we launched FQ Insider, which is our membership platform.
• 25:19
  And.
• 25:20
  And that is for those really highly engaged fashion people who just want a bit more, you know, they want to have more exclusive interviews with people, they want discounts, they want to come to the preview sales.
• 25:31
  It's sort of like being like a member of fq, I would say, on a bigger scale.
• 25:36
  And so we do, like, little events for them and a lot to, like, sort of bring them in that step closer.
• 25:42
  And that, to me, was something we'd thought about for ages.
• 25:44
  So that was sort of like the biggest project for the year.
• 25:47
  But I honestly have so many things that I want to do that it's more than how many can I commit to in a year.
• 25:53
  I love that.
• 25:54
  And it's.
• 25:54
  It's such a different way to connect with people because I think, you know, we all got really into social media.
• 25:59
  It's great.
• 25:59
  It's not going anywhere.
• 26:02
  But the idea of seeing people in person as well, I mean, that is a huge area that not enough people are playing in, I think.
• 26:10
  Big commitment, though, right, to make an event go well.
• 26:13
  Yes.
• 26:13
  Yeah.
• 26:13
  There's a lot of.
• 26:14
  Of elements.
• 26:15
  Our biggest event of the year is our FQ Fashion Awards.
• 26:18
  So that was the first thing, the first big event we started when we took over and just to, like, champion and lift up the industry.
• 26:26
  And it seems so, you know, small, but I feel like it's made a really big impact.
• 26:30
  And it is sort of.
• 26:32
  It was our third year this year, you know, people expect that it's going to be every July.
• 26:36
  And, you know, we have 200 people there and we have partners on board to help sponsor it.
• 26:41
  And then it really is just a night to, like, lift up all the creatives and not just the fashion designers, but everyone in that creative ecosystem.
• 26:48
  So the photographers, the stylists, makeup artists, writers, people who just love fashion and in that industry, you know, need to be acknowledged.
• 26:56
  Yeah.
• 26:57
  What do you think is the key these days for running a successful media business?
• 27:02
  Do you think it's that there's a nimbleness with being a smaller operation?
• 27:08
  Definitely.
• 27:08
  But I think the biggest thing is just passion.
• 27:10
  Like I am just so passionate about the industry and the publication that I think, and I feel, I always said, as you say, that with a lot of the home magazines because they're all independently owned.
• 27:20
  And I think it's because people who own them now really are on board of what they're trying to put out there.
• 27:26
  And it's not just some, you know, huge company.
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  It's.
• 27:31
  It's not entirely the money making operation.
• 27:34
  Yes.
• 27:34
  It's a business, but it's also that passion and love for it that keeps it going.
• 27:39
  Yes.
• 27:40
  And they care, you can see they genuinely care for them and, you know, want to keep these titles going.
• 27:44
  The flip side of it as well, you're in a really interesting hybrid of spaces because fashion, as well, as you've just talked about, has also been having its own troubles.
• 27:53
  Tough time.
• 27:54
  Right.
• 27:54
  Even in the last few months, there's been some labels, clothes that I thought were in the too big to fail category.
• 28:00
  Wynn Hamlin.
• 28:01
  Right.
• 28:02
  And naive for me probably to think that they were safe.
• 28:06
  But I was really surprised when you're looking at that.
• 28:09
  I mean, you've, you've got two crunchy industries that you're combining here.
• 28:15
  What about the future of fashion?
• 28:16
  I mean, are there areas where you think the industry might have to change or do things differently?
• 28:21
  Or is there anything that can be done to make things a bit more sustainable and stop losing some of these amazing people?
• 28:28
  Well, one thing I noticed from New Zealand Fashion Week was that all the designers really honed into their brand DNA, which I think was really smart.
• 28:37
  Like, I don't think they're chasing trends or trying to do this or that.
• 28:41
  You know, every brand, you know, you.
• 28:43
  I mean, I know them very, you know, very well, but you could look at them, you're like, that is classic you, you know, and I think that's because they know their audience so well and their customer who comes
• 28:53
  in for a very specific look, you know, and so that's probably working for them, like just like knowing the customer intimately and designing what they're good at and sort of doubling down on that.
• 29:04
  I love that.
• 29:05
  So when we're in a space that isn't purely about the use you get out of it, it's really leaning into those things that do make it unique and do speak to people, because that's really, at the end of
• 29:20
  the day, what you're selling, right?
• 29:21
  A feeling.
• 29:22
  And also, like, brands like Ruby, they have such a presence on social media.
• 29:26
  Like, they have the.
• 29:27
  I don't know if it's called Club Ruby or what it's called, but, like, there's just people who, you know, love what they do, and then, you know, you can see they've got a real community.
• 29:35
  And I think that is what it is like building your own community.
• 29:38
  And that's what, you know, FQ is trying to do as well.
• 29:41
  So that's, you know, yes, it's hard on both sides, but I think if you, like, really lean into your community, that's where you're going to find success.
• 29:49
  Smart.
• 29:50
  One of the things that you mentioned just before as well, when you were saying about, you know, these, the lifestyle magazines and the, you know, the Home and Garden or the fashion, whatever, run by people who really care.
• 30:02
  And I agree.
• 30:03
  I also think that can make it quite hard sometimes.
• 30:06
  Have you ever had a moment where you've got a bit of a conflict between best business decision, maybe, versus best creative decision?
• 30:17
  Walk me through some of these moments.
• 30:19
  And what did you do?
• 30:20
  I mean, I always.
• 30:21
  This is like the bane of my life, is balancing those two things.
• 30:26
  But to be honest, like, for instance, with the FQ Awards, we could do that a lot more affordably than how we do it.
• 30:33
  But I know it needs to look as good as possible to really celebrate the industry and to, like, show them we're, like, investing in them and putting this on for them.
• 30:42
  So there are certain things, like a particular ice sculpture we had recently sounds very bougie, like you don't necessarily need a nice sculpture, but I knew it would look really, really good.
• 30:53
  And it really, you know, there's an activation we did around it, and it really just made it shine.
• 30:59
  So I wanted to make it as good as we possibly could.
• 31:01
  And I feel like I have situations and decisions like that constantly.
• 31:05
  And probably not the good side of business for me is that I do lean towards the creative side constantly.
• 31:12
  Do you know what, though?
• 31:13
  Like, that there is like, obviously you have to be realistic and you can't, you know, spend too much.
• 31:17
  But there is also the argument that there are certain intangibles, especially in your business.
• 31:24
  But I actually think for many businesses there are certain intangibles when you're working with people.
• 31:30
  And I even think about this when I'm working with some of the sponsors who support this show.
• 31:35
  You know, I really try to make sure that they know it's not just a business relationship.
• 31:39
  I do only work with companies that I really believe in.
• 31:42
  And so I am happy to go above and beyond sometimes and sort of that feeling of, we're all in this together and this is a real partnership, you know, and it's a similar sort of idea where what you've
• 31:54
  got, where you're like, this isn't just about, oh, we've got an awards show, and blah, blah, blah.
• 31:59
  This is a feeling.
• 32:00
  This is a bunch of creative people.
• 32:01
  They want to feel their souls be nourished a little bit.
• 32:04
  And if you're not going to do this, there is the argument of why do it at all?
• 32:08
  Right.
• 32:09
  That maybe doing it badly would be worse than not doing it.
• 32:14
  Do you ever feel like there's that sort of feedback into the business, the intangibles?
• 32:18
  Yep, definitely.
• 32:19
  And I think I'm the same as you.
• 32:20
  Like, we like to partner with people that we can work with in that beautiful partnership way where it's sort of like ebb and flow.
• 32:28
  And I feel like we do that quite well with our shoots.
• 32:30
  Like, if we have a shoot that's a sponsored shoot, it has to have the FQ look and feel about it.
• 32:35
  Like, we can't just throw something on these pages that's not with our brand DNA because then it's just never gonna work.
• 32:42
  And then it sticks out.
• 32:43
  We're really lucky to work with people that get, you know, what we're trying to do and are happy to be part of it.
• 32:50
  Yeah.
• 32:50
  And I think as well, when you find those people who do care a lot and then they.
• 32:55
  They do get that sort of.
• 32:57
  That feedback of, you know, feeling like they're part of something important.
• 33:01
  I mean, it's the classic thing of when you look after your employees.
• 33:06
  Um, people can.
• 33:08
  What does it work to rule?
• 33:09
  You can follow the strict instructions of your job description.
• 33:12
  And for a lot of people, that means not doing that much.
• 33:16
  It might be doing 70% of what a person who feels really invested and feels really happy.
• 33:20
  And I think that applies to all of business.
• 33:22
  Right.
• 33:22
  You, if you really just want to be a bit cynical about it, you often get more back.
• 33:28
  So when you look at it now and you're thinking about how you push the business forward, what are your plans for the future?
• 33:37
  Actually, lots of confidential plans.
• 33:40
  What can you hint at?
• 33:42
  Yeah, all I can say is we'll keep doing the same as what we're doing and then hopefully just expand outwards from there.
• 33:49
  But, I mean, generally, the publication, the magazine is always going to be at the heart of everything, like that really is the heart of everything we do.
• 33:57
  So it's really important to get that right.
• 33:58
  And I know that lots of people wouldn't want to invest as much as you would into a publication, but I think it's very, very, very important.
• 34:06
  If you were talking to someone else, might be in a similar industry, might be totally different, who is feeling like they're working in a company that they would love to do what you did, go and talk to the
• 34:17
  boss and say, in the most diplomatic way possible, I could do this better.
• 34:21
  Can I take it on?
• 34:23
  Would you have any sort of tips, tricks, things for them to think about?
• 34:27
  Probably just to do your research into something before you do.
• 34:31
  Like, I'd worked in magazines for years and years and years and I knew the editor side so well.
• 34:36
  You know, I knew how the magazine ran on that side, which was great.
• 34:39
  But if I hadn't had my husband on the business side, I would have been quite lost in how to make it work.
• 34:44
  I feel like I would have figured it out.
• 34:46
  Like, I'm constantly like someone who would just keep learning and learning and learning, and I would have figured out, but I got there a lot quicker with him helping me.
• 34:52
  So maybe find a mentor.
• 34:53
  Yes.
• 34:54
  Yeah, mentor would be a great, great, great tip.
• 34:57
  Yeah, there's.
• 34:58
  What is it?
• 34:58
  The MB business, mentors, Very cheap way to do it.
• 35:01
  Or find someone in the industry that's brilliant.
• 35:04
  What about.
• 35:04
  In terms of having that conversation and trying to make a good pitch, what do you think is a good way to approach it?
• 35:14
  I know I joked before about, hey, I could run this place better than you.
• 35:17
  Probably don't do that.
• 35:18
  Absolutely not.
• 35:19
  I don't think it would go down very well at all, actually.
• 35:21
  Yes, exactly.
• 35:22
  How would you approach it?
• 35:24
  Whether or not that's how you did it yourself?
• 35:26
  I think, again, it's just being passionate about it.
• 35:28
  Like, if someone can see how passionate you are and also being authentic.
• 35:31
  Like, if you're passionate and you're authentic and they can see you genuinely want this and can do it, you know, they might back you, they might surprise you and be like, yep, you're right.
• 35:41
  So I think that kind of speaks volumes.
• 35:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:44
  If you had your time over, is there anything you would have done differently in this process?
• 35:50
  Probably not.
• 35:50
  I mean, honestly, it all happened so fast that it was just boom, boom, boom.
• 35:55
  But I do think, like, for me, it feels like my whole career was leading up to that point, and it's quite.
• 36:00
  It was quite a bizarre feeling when I finally you know, was the owner of Fashion Quarterly and it felt like I was like, yeah, like if every single job I had got me to that point, like I learned
• 36:10
  something everywhere along the way and then here I was and could do it.
• 36:14
  And, you know, it just felt like meant to be.
• 36:18
  It's really classic and I understand why these stories are popular over the sort of like 20 year old proteges and stuff.
• 36:25
  And it's fantastic and I love those people and good for them, but I suspect that's not how the majority of people do it.
• 36:32
  I feel for a lot of people, there's that tipping point in 30s, 40s, sometimes even 50s, where you take all the experience that you've gathered up and tap it and turn it into something bigger.
• 36:43
  Right.
• 36:43
  Like I look at what I've started now.
• 36:45
  I couldn't have started it before I did.
• 36:46
  You look at what you've done.
• 36:48
  You probably couldn't have done it before you did, right?
• 36:50
  No, definitely not.
• 36:52
  It's the same thing.
• 36:53
  Like if you didn't learn all these life lessons on the way, like I had some, like, as you would have known, like horrendous times, you know, as you go through and you.
• 37:00
  And it just does make you stronger and then you, it makes you more resilient and you sort of sometimes gives you a bit more direction of where you truly need to go or want to go.
• 37:10
  Yeah, I love that so much.
• 37:12
  What a beautiful note to leave things on.
• 37:13
  Thank you so much, Sarah Murray, editor and owner of Fashion Quarterly.
• 37:17
  I can't wait to see where you take it next and how all these Secret Squirrel plans go.
• 37:22
  Thank you, Frances.
• 37:23
  It'll be brilliant.
• 37:24
  All right, now, if you have enjoyed this podcast, send it on to a friend so we can all level up with our money together.
• 37:29
  Until next time, have a great day.
• 37:33
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• 37:38
  It's not individual financial advice.
• 37:40
  If you're after that, a financial advisor is always the best bet.