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Turning Point Ep4. "Losing Your Tribe" · Murders to Music: Crime Scene to Music Scene (Streamline Events and Entertainment)

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to a Murders to Music Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Aaron.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, and thank you guys so much for coming back.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is episode number four of the Turning Point series.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: This series is going to focus on losing the tribe.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: That means, you know, we all get involved in these circles in life, in friends and family, and work and relationships that become our unity, our community, our tribe, if you will.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, because sometimes, because of circumstances outside of our control, those tribes disappear.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: We lose the job, we lose our identity, whatever that we have to suddenly move for work, whatever it is, but the tribe that we knew is now gone.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we find ourselves alone on an island, isolated, not knowing where to turn, feeling like we have no friends, no family.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever feel like, man, I just don't have any true friends?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have somebody that I can call.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: That feeling feels dark and desolate and isolating and alone and lonely.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're going to talk about today.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: But we're not going to emphasize and focus on the negative.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, we have to tell the story.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: In all these turning point series, we tell the story that gets us to the turning point.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, that tide is washing up on the beach.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: It gets as high as it's going to go, and then it starts to fade back out and the ocean starts to go away.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is what we're going to talk about today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: That turning point is oftentimes when people find a new life, a new lease, and a new hope for the future.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is what we're going to focus on.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to talk about the learning lessons that occurred between A and B, and maybe it'll help a listener.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: On today's show, we have a stage four cancer survivor.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: This gentleman is the first responder that served in during 9-11, responded to the scene, and as a result, picked up cancer along the way.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's a police officer, worked the East Coast, and before you know it, he ended his career very suddenly after a tragic accident.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And he lost his tribe.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to talk about that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to talk about the rebuilding and what he's up to today.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So without any further ado, welcome to the show, Tommy.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And just I would love to hear about your story.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first I want to say uh Aaron, thank you so much for having me on.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's it's my honor to be on your uh your show, and I was super excited when I got the uh invite.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for having me on.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, brother.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, man, you're totally welcome.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here, taking the time.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so real quick, just a little bit about me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, like I was telling you earlier, my mom and dad are uh my whole family is off the boat from Italy.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um straight off, you know, they came in the uh in the in the 50s.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm first generation Italian American.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was born in uh Brooklyn, New York, Bensonhurst, in uh 1975.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Brooklyn for a couple of years, and then my parents wanted to move out to Long Island.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to say a better way of living, but a slower, you know, safer, safer life out here on Long Island, you know, in the burbs.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm an only child.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: My parents couldn't, they didn't have any more children after me.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had a lot of cousins growing up.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was one of eight.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: She had eight brothers, eight siblings, eight brothers and sisters.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um my dad had four.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a lot of cousins growing up.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them were like siblings, you know, best friends, siblings.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had the best parents.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: My my parents are still around, thank God.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um just totally my mother is just so selfless, and everything she did, everything was for me, you know, and I was given every opportunity to succeed.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, just in one generation, my parents came to this country and they had nothing.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: They had nothing, literally.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: They they weren't rich people, they were actually poor people.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they just worked so hard, they went to school, they worked, and uh, you know, super proud of them because you come to America with nothing, and you have a house in Long Island, they have a house in Myrtle Beach, they have a little place upstate, they invested their money, they did right.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: They I never wanted for anything, you know, like they always I was never like that spoiled, spoiled kid.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like my parents never had money coming out of their nose, you know, but I never wanted for anything.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess it could have been very easy for me to how do I say it?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I guess to be spoiled and and not and not understand what they went through, what they did, what they sacrificed to give me.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I was very intelligent and I saw what they did and I understood.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, you know, my way of giving back is to be positive, to make something out of myself, you know.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to college, I went to graduate school, you know, now I'm in law school, and uh I guess that's kind of my way of giving back to my parents and saying thank you.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I'm a mix of a Long Island suburb guy and a city guy.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went to uh college in the city, John Jay, College of Criminal Justice, uh City University, New York for undergrad, you know, so I spent a lot of time in the city, Manhattan, back and forth from Brooklyn and of course Long Island.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that was my upbringing, you know, uh high school, college, graduate school in Long Island, and uh the New York area, the downstate area.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um after that, I moved to uh I moved to Maryland.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had uh a ton of loans to pay back for school, for college, graduate school, and I couldn't wait to uh get a job back here in Long Island.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Long Island is like one of the most affluent police departments, Nassau County, Suffolk County, Port Authority, you know, some of the most highest paying police departments in the country.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of uh a lot of you know uh who you know and luck and whatever, whatever it is.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it it's it's difficult to get in.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, listen, I knew somebody down in Baltimore, a friend of mine was down there.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: They were doing a three-day processing, um, three-day weekend.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I went on a Friday, I believe.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I did the whole uh I did the whole background.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: When I was processing for Baltimore, it was at the time, I I I think it still is, the most violent, you know, deadly city per capita, big city, um, most violent big city in the country.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, every year it was like one or two or three.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I went in, I did my three-day processing.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: They sent me home with a big packet, background investigation packet.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And literally within two months, they did everything.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember getting the call, I was so excited.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, serious?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're done already?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of other agencies like NYPD could take two, three, four years.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're waiting on a list.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was it.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Mom, dad, I'm out, you know.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I just took off.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: I left.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I literally got an apartment in no time.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember just sleeping on the floor with no furniture, nothing, literally nothing.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh starting uh pre-hire, what they called pre-hire the next day.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was working at headquarters for a month, you know, basically doing paperwork until the academy started.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: They call it pre-hire, and uh that was the start to uh working in Baltimore.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was a great experience, great time.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Youth, man, what I'd give to be uh 20-something again.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was a kid, I always had there was an attraction to law enforcement, you know, like just Friday night watching Miami Vice and Hunter, that was a great cop show, too.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just always liked it.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it was when you're a kid, you see things in black and white, you don't really know what life is about.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: You think there's good, the cops are good, and the bad guys are bad, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's black and white, and you don't realize that there's different levels of gray and shadiness in between that, you know.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I always wanted to work in a law enforcement capacity somehow.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I mean, ever since I can remember, that's that's basically how you know it all started for me.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: How long were you in Baltimore?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't there that long.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did about two years, and then I transferred out a lateral to uh Montgomery County, Maryland.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I loved the fast pace of you know Baltimore at the time.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was in my 20s, mid-20s, and I was just super aggressive.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not, I don't, for our listeners, I don't want that to come out the wrong way.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not aggressive like uh some people may think.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't yoking people up, beating people up, but I was an aggressive cop.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was a stat getter, I was a you know, a numbers guy.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the job.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh, you know, it was super hard and difficult to leave because so many great experiences, especially at that age, you know.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I remember working 3 to 11 and then just literally right I because I was lucky enough to work in the central district for a while, and uh 3 to 11 was prime time, you're right in the middle, downtown.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I got the opportunity, I met a couple people that worked in Montgomery County, and they were telling me, you know, you might want to think about it, they're hiring laterals, and I was like, nah, man, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not leaving, I'm not like I'm not going anywhere, I'm not lateral.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but then they showed me, you know, the pay was better, the benefits were better, the days off were better, you got a take-home car, this and that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to think, you know, I'm 25 now, but if I gotta do this for 20 years, I I don't know if I'm gonna want to be running around the streets of Baltimore at that point.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I decided to leave.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was a tough decision.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I left and uh lateraled out to Montgomery County, and uh I I gotta be honest with you, it life is like such a paradox.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's always a give and take.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: It worked out in the end, it worked out great.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I got my pension, like we spoke about, I retired due to an injury, I was hurt at work, I retired early.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't even, I don't even know how to articulate.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I went from just big city, crazy, every night, you know, like 30 calls a night, you know, serious, serious jobs, serious jobs coming out every minute, and just adrenaline dumps and excitement to you know, writing a ticket book.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Your sergeant wants you to write a ticket book in Montgomery County, and if you if you raise your voice even slightly to one of the rich community members, you're getting uh a courtesy complaint and they're putting a letter in your file, and you know, you're going to internal affairs for for BS.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was really uh a culture, a police shock for me, like switching departments like that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was really like going from night to day.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I retired early, and we'll we'll get into that whole thing later.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, similar situation to yours, like we were talking about.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the good thing about my contract over there at uh Montgomery County, at the time I was grandfathered in, they revamped everything.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: But as long as you if you retired on a service connected disability retirement injury retirement, if you retired that way, like I believe you did and I did, um as long as you didn't, I'm trying to think about the contract, it's been so long, but they basically didn't have a salary cap.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: There was no salary cap.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The union was really strong back then, they were good um when they made this contract.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have a salary cap.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as you didn't work as a governmental police police for a governmental police department or as a governmental police officer again, you were basically good.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was able, I had friends that worked, uh, they retired from NYPD, and they went to work for it's called Seagate Police Department, Seagate uh Association, all the way at the end of Coney Island.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you take Surf Avenue all the way down, you get off to Belt Parkway, Cropsy Avenue, take Surf Avenue all the way down, you go through Coney Island, you see Nathan's, you see the uh Cyclone, you know, just all the stuff you see on television.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all the way down, you hit West 37th, and there's a gate, and you see Seagate Police.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's basically, they've been around since 1899.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're basically a private law enforcement agency with full arrest authority, New York State Peace Officer status, and uh yeah, it it's very few and far between.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're the only one in all of New York City that has a police charter like that.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: When I was at Seagate, I was a supervisor, I was a uh I did a lot of stuff really.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I was a sergeant at Seagate, I was in charge of all their training.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was a New York State uh Department of Criminal Justice Services, General Topics, and firearms instructor.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I worked plain clothes over there too when there was details going on, you know, if there was burglaries or robberies or whatever, something something was going on.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I did a little bit of everything.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not so much the like you did.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: You did straight investigations for a long time.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't so much do that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was more of a street guy, you know.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know how that is.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You were a cop.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I really believe that the backbone to law enforcement is patrol.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: It really is, you know, patrol, plain clothes.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're out there and you see it all, you know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um detective work is so super important.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a fine mix, you know.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: You need both.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need both.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need the proactive policing, you need to be out there and be seen.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's also stuff, listen, we're not Superman, we're not God.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Things are gonna get get past us.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna see everything.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the detectives have to come in and they have to follow up, and they gotta, you know, pick up the slack and investigate all the stuff that's going on.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So so uh a lot of the guys retired NYPD, and uh it was great because I retired young and uh that hurt me, you know.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: That I was I was super young at the time, but uh I sustained the neck injury in a car accident at work, and uh I was out, you know, they got my records and they put me out.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Being a police officer, working in the police department, is like being in a tribe.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a I mean that that that's perfect.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect verbiage, like a tribe, 100%.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it works out good and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it works out bad.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Going into the police department, I thought that it was just gonna be a big brotherhood camaraderie everywhere, and it really wasn't.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You there was a lot of salty, untrustworthy men and women, a lot of jealous people that really didn't want it, they didn't want the new guy in.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't accept you, definitely not right away, definitely not right away.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the city I had to prove myself speak.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I got my group, but I don't know if you feel the same way.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't as wide open as I thought it was gonna be.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: There was like little clicks here, little groups there.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these three would go out to dinner, these four would meet at 7-Eleven, these two would talk, you know, it wasn't like everybody together.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if you had that in your police department.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I had my group of people.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found my group, we loved each other, we backed each other up to the end.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I learned then it wasn't always what I thought it was, it wasn't always that camaraderie, that tightness.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was more clicky, so to speak.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a snowy day.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I remember we were uh in Montgomery County as well.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: We were generally speaking, one-man cars, always on our own.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: But that day we were we were teamed up, we had two in the car, and I was driving, and I I don't remember what the call was, but a job came out, and we were going lights and sirens, and a snowplow contracted by the county, was backing up on the wrong side.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: This guy was ridiculous, backing up on the wrong side.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: So he was literally going the wrong way on the shoulder, and when I was making a left turn with my lights and sirens on, he backed into me.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh have herniated discs and you know, spondlesis and all kind of neck injury from it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's where it started, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: The car accident.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and after that, it was like I have to tell you, it's just so disheartening because uh, like I said, you know, I I thought it was a certain way.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Growing up, I thought it was a certain way.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have delusions of grandeur, you have visions in your mind, but you don't know.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're a kid, you don't really know how it works.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um as soon as I got hurt, I was worthless.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I I remember I had to take a couple days off, and my sergeant flipped out, and he's like, You're telling me now?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what and I'm like, what do you mean I'm telling you now?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have a doctor's note.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: My I have to give this to you.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: What when am I supposed to tell you?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember he like took offense to it.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, What what are you what's what are you talking about?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it started this whole big, this whole big thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they were demanding my medical information, they were asking me what medications I was on.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can't take painkillers when you're on duty, this and that.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, listen, listen, listen.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: That stuff goes through HR, that goes through the county.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're not getting my medical information.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is there's HIPAA laws, like, this is ridiculous.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hurt, you got a doctor's note, that's all you need to know right now.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I remember they literally after that, they were I'm getting notices to show up in internal affairs for bullshit, courtesy complaint, this and that.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how am I getting internal affairs complaints when I'm sitting at the station on light duty?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this a joke?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they were really, really making my life miserable towards the end.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, like, I was so sick of it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was so disheartened.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is what the police department is like.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is what they do to their own.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that, I realized it way before that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: But at that moment, it was like an epiphany, like a light, a shining light in front of me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I knew the game completely at that point.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, if you don't have a rabbi in your corner, if you don't have a huge hook, if you don't have the right people, you're screwed.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And which most most of us don't, you know, you're expendable.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: They'll throw you out, they'll throw you out like trash.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and especially if you get hurt, they don't want to pay you.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to have to pay for, you know, a pension and pay you for the rest of your life.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll look for any excuse to get rid of you.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to my attorney, I spoke to him, and he's like, Tom, listen.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Get them off your back.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you do.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Put in for your retirement, put in your disability papers, show them that you're that your injury is legit, that it's real.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna get all the records.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can't fake the records, then they're gonna get off your back.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I did.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was good for about six months.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So at this point, it was like turmoil, inner turmoil.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I felt isolated, I felt alone, I felt hurt, I felt literally like losing that tribe you were talking about.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you're going from every night working with your crew of guys and girls, five, six, seven people on your shift.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to 7-Eleven, you're hanging out when it's slow, you're joking, you're having fun, going to jobs together, getting each other's back.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I'm working the desk.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working the desk and I'm like an outcast.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed, I'm not allowed to do anything because I'm a liability.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's it's night and day.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just the blink of an eye, you're going from high-speed working patrol to sitting behind a desk and taking shit from the bosses, you know, breaking your chops because whatever they think, you're malingering, or I get the call, and I think it was a lieutenant from uh headquarters, and he's like, congratulations.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, congratulations, what?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, your retirement went through, your papers went through.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Meet me down at uh quartermaster supply, turn in your shield and ID.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna give you a retired shield, and uh you're retired, and I'm like, what?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, huh?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was just so bizarre to me.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: You you go from being a police officer, which is so much of your life, especially at that at that age, like it was the majority of my life, like it meant so much at that point, you know?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I just that was it, just like that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was over, and you have to learn now in seconds, it's over in seconds.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: The phone call.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you get the phone call, it's over.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You turn in your stuff, it's done.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to learn to adjust, you have to learn to live with this, you know, psychologically, emotionally, physically, like, you know, I I went from working from the police at the police department, now I'm sitting on my couch.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was tough.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely tough at first, and it was uh, like I said, it was very hurtful and aggravating.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also never gonna forget some of the people, some of the friends, some of the guys, some of the girls that you know you went to war with, you you you battled with, you know.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it sounds like losing your tribe hurt more than you losing your job.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when did your tribe disappear from you?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: So my tribe really I can't say all of them.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still friends with some of them today, to this day.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but really it changed when when I got hurt.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: It really did, you know.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't out there with them, they weren't in the station with me.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's really when things changed, you know, when uh when you go out, you know, when when when you're not on full full duty.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally understand, man.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And how did the isolation affect you?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was difficult.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was difficult.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult to uh I mean uh I would think in any in any career, any profession, any anything you're doing for a long time, anything you love, just imagine, you know, imagine being uh a pro football player, a pro-boxer.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a a lifelong martial artist.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: If I was to stop doing something I loved, whether it was the police department, whether it's jujitsu, whether it's fishing, whatever the hell it is you love to do, that it's very traumatizing.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a piece of you is missing, you know, like you're losing something.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's tough, you know.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime you go through something like that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find that isolation caused any depression or anything like that in your world?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Isolation always causes depression.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I always.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if people tell you it doesn't, they're either lying or they don't know.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't realize it.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: People react differently to stressors and and situations, but I don't think anybody would be able to go through something like that and not feel anything, not be depressed.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to be a robot, you have to be dead not to feel something, you know what I mean?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: What helped you survive that period of your life?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it was tough for the first year.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was tough, but then you know, I I found things, uh, you know, whether it was working out, you know, I I I was never gonna be who I was before, but because of health issues, but you know, you I found things that I liked.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta do things, you gotta really focus on what makes you happy.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not always gonna be happy, but you gotta find things that do make you the happiest you can be, you know.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: So what whatever that is, whatever your thing is, you know, like I said, is that is it jujitsu?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, going fishing?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love fishing.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um is it writing a book, being a book author?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, uh whatever the hell it may be, going to see a movie.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big, I'm a big movie guy.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I love Hollywood, not the politics, I love movies.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you gotta find things and immerse yourself in it.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I I think you're gonna be in big trouble.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen people really go down.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um because it happens so fast, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you when you when you retire, do you get hurt, you're out.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Next thing you know, your whole life changes.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have things, if you don't have a support system, if you don't have family, if you don't have kids, if you don't have whatever it is, uh hobbies, you I think you're gonna get really, really messed up.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you completely, man.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one day you have identity belonging, a tribe, people around you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can look at somebody and you know what they're thinking, right?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're going through that door with somebody, you give somebody a look, you know there's all this nonverbal communication.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next day, all that is gone.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And not only is it gone, you have to get escorted into the building, and your time is limited.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Where you used to sit behind your desk for hours, now you walk in and they have five minutes because the the wheels keep turning in their world, and you're just you know a visitor when you step into that department.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that was a really hard thing to uh understand, first of all, and to accept, because yesterday I was a hero with them, and today, you know, I'm on the outside looking in, and that was really tough for me.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this: when did belonging return?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when did you finally feel like, okay, I have a new life ahead of me?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it consists of this, and I am somebody again.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: When did that happen for you?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was retired.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was never gonna be a you know, governmental law enforcement officer, a police officer again, so to speak.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I did have the opportunity, I was able to work at Seagate, and I was a New York State Peace Officer, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: That did help me.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: That did help me.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it wasn't the same as working in Baltimore or even in Montgomery County, but it still gave me a great feeling.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was still able to help the public, and you know, I was still young at the time, and I was still able to work in a law enforcement capacity, so to speak, you know.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, all the other things that I entertain in my life, like I said, book writing, martial arts, you know, teaching martial arts to kids, to family members, to the community, um just all the things that I love, my hobbies, you know, spending time with family and friends, those are all things that helped me.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what I will tell you is this there are certain things that happen in life.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Certain things happen to you, and I do believe it's true what they say.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: What does not kill you?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I believe I believe for me it always makes me stronger, but there's a nuance to that, it makes you stronger in some ways, but you're also broken in others.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're never gonna be the same.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a stage four cancer survivor.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have herniated discs, I have this, that, the next.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never gonna be that 25-year-old guy again running the streets of Baltimore, getting the craziest high from you know, natural high from you know, making it a crazy sick gun arrest.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna happen.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those days are long gone.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 50, I'm not 25.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: But part of you yearns for that.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're always gonna, part of you says, man, I'm done with that BS.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God I'm out of it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want nothing to do with it no more.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then sometimes you sit around and you yearn for that, you yearn for that youth, you yearn for that jovial, you know, spirit, and you're never gonna have that again.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hear you.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you hear you and and you have to you have to just be okay with that because sooner or later, no matter what profession you're in, no matter what job you're in, we all have an aspiration.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta give it up, man.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you gotta find you gotta find things that you like.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's it has to be somebody else's turn, and you have to have a new life and rebuild a new world in a new life.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about the you mentioned your stage four cancer survivor.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about that, and then we're gonna talk about kind of that rebuilding, the things you've mentioned, the authoring, the uh martial arts, the stuff you're doing today that is maybe more advanced than what it was, say, figuratively speaking, yesterday.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: But tell me about that cancer.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on there?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that was pretty bad.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm I'm underestimating, I'm I'm playing it down.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was a nightmare.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, cancer is always bad.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Stage four lymphoma cancer.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: It spread throughout my body, it spread to my T5 vertebrae, it was breaking, breaking my back.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was torture.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And how did you get the cancer?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do we ever really know how we get cancer, where where it comes from?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're never really gonna know for sure, you know.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I was down, I volunteered at uh, you know, 9-11.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm covered by the the World Trade Center Health Commission.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's attributed to that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do we do we really know?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're never really gonna know, but it's attributed to that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um all they know is it was awful, and it was a year and a half more of just absolute brutal torture treatment, you know, spinal taps, bone punctures, chemo, heavy, heavy duty chemo, heavy duty radiation, you know, minor surgeries, catheters being cut open, um, 23 straight days in the hospital with uh this treatment called CAR T cell therapy, sick as a dog, lost 30 pounds.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was worse for me, it was worse than the chemo.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just to be here at this point is a gift from God.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't be here, you know.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I said, I'm stronger from my journey.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm super strong physically, I'm super strong mentally, but I'm also broken in ways, you know.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no way you can go through certain things in life like this and not be busted up emotionally, mentally, physically, like, you know, you did the job, you know, you you you come out of it, and especially, you know, you're dealing with a law enforcement life, you're dealing with you know things like cancer.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: You did guys leave the job, guys and girls alike, they leave the job every day, man, with PTSD, anxiety, depression, this, that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's it's a tough life, man.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really tough life.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can give it all for them and give it all for your agency, your department, your people.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, you know, um, they don't have your back, and that's really a hard thing to swallow.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this: what role, you've mentioned it a couple of times now, what role uh did faith have in your healing?
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, like I said, I have issues, man.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: We all have issues.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: No one is walking around perfect.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: I realize at this age, if you're 50 years old and you lived a life like we did, you're gonna have scars, bro.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have scars physically, you're gonna have scars mentally, you're gonna have scars emotionally.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not I'm not perfect.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: I got I got issues just like the next guy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: But without God, I wouldn't be here right now.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way I am.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: What what I don't believe people can believe whatever they want.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I believe.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't make it through certain things without the help of the man above, you know, God without divine intervention.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who the hell is Tom Kharkeiti?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: How am I getting through backbreaking cancer?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: How am I it's not happening?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: How how do you how am I beating stage four cancer?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm a bad, I'm a I'm a bad MF.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but that's one percent.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's one percent.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Without God's help, I'm I'm done, bro.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm done.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome, man.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you this.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is different now?
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about your life now on the other side of all this, and since it's behind you.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a glutton for punishment.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm just finishing up my fourth year of law school.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to graduate, you know.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as I took some time off of law school because I was sick, obviously.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I was on remission, I went back and I'm trying to finish up.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna finish up.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm finishing up my last year, my fourth year.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, it's brutal.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And not only do you have to be smart, you have to be determined.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you're you can have a 180, you know, whatever.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care what your IQ is.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can have a 160 IQ, 170 IQ.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not determined, if you're not getting up, just like let's be honest, like a police officer.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a shooting, God forbid, you gotta get in it, man.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta stay in it.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta, if you're in a street fight as a cop, you can't give up.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta, you gotta stay in it.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta be in it to win it, man.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with law school.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not in it to win it, if you're not gonna give it 100%, if you're not gonna be studying five, 10 hours a day, forget it.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Don't even do it, don't waste your time because you're not gonna pass.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna pass the bar exam.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: What was the exact moment in your journey that the tide began to turn for you and things started to turn around?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the biggest thrills I have in a long time is this law school journey.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think, I think for me, that's huge because uh it's something I always wanted to do, and I didn't have time when I was younger.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I wanted something different, something better for me at this point.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've worked so hard at it, you know, through my cancer law school while I had cancer, while I was sick.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I literally have, I can't believe I have one year left.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like that I come I yeah, I completed three years, and it's it doesn't seem like it it's gonna end.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: It really doesn't, and never I guess kind of like the police academy.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: It when you're in it, it seems like it's never gonna end, and then one day it just ends.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm starting to see the light.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to see like, wait, I really did finish three years.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have one year left past law school, then I can sit for the bar, and uh that's a huge accomplishment for me, man.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't, I think that is a big bright spot for me.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a person, man.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where it turned.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's way cool.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what uh tell me about your book.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is the book you've written and where can people find it?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you literally can just Google my name, Tommy Thomas Carquiti.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can Google my book, A Life in Law Enforcement, a Police Memoir, The Good, the Bad, the Corrupt.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's on Amazon, it's on Book Baby, my uh self-publishing book company.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, just go online, look it up.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh really interesting read.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's exactly what it the title, exactly what the title says the good, the bad, the corrupt.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So much good, and then there's that gray area, and there's that bad.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think for people that don't understand law enforcement, like you and I, we lived it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So to us, it's second nature.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: But 99.9% of people don't ever work in a sworn law enforcement capacity, they don't know what it's like, you know.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's it's a treat for them.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, I hate to say it, it's almost like a train wreck, a car crash.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like people don't want to see it, but they can't stop watching it.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's what law enforcement's like for people, for the public, right?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think you'll find it very interesting, uh, my stories.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, it gives you such an understanding of how government law enforcement works and what really goes on behind closed doors.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's eye-opening for people that don't work in, you know, law enforcement.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Copy that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything, any message that you would want to give?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so th this whole episode is about losing your tribe.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we have spoken about your journey coming into law enforcement, working through the ranks, working through patrol, different agencies.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Finding points where you're rejected by your peers, and then finally finding times when essentially you're in love with your peers, the five, six, seven people you work with, you rely on each other, and then all of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, because of a situation that was outside of your control, your career is suddenly over and you find yourself on the ouch.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: You find yourself being isolated.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you went from belonging to isolation through the cancer and then in the rebuilding.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're in this journey of your law school becoming a lawyer.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is such an awesome, awesome journey.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you would say to people out there who might be facing some of the same troubles or trials or tribulations that you had?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Any message you want to give them?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think my father told me this.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: My mom and dad told me this when I was a kid, and I never believed them.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: You always think you know more than your parents, you know more than the next guy when you're a kid.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't know jack shit.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know anything.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: My father used to tell me you're lucky and blessed if you have five people that you can literally count on, depend on in your life.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he wasn't talking about acquaintances, he was talking about real wider dying people.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: So don't be so eager to try to please everybody.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Always stay true to yourself.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I did.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was always true to myself.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Either you love me or you hate me.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't care if you hate me because I got the people that love me.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Stay true to yourself, be honest, upright, forthright, you know, trustworthy.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have two, three, four, five, six, seven people.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're blessed.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on to them and treat them well.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Always support the people, especially in law enforcement, that support you.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that don't shake it off.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Walk away.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Don't, don't, don't let it bother you.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Be true to yourself.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about everybody liking you and love the ones that love you.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dude, I just want to say thank you for coming on the show and sharing your story and uh walking through the whole journey, walking through cancer, and then life on the other side, becoming a lawyer was super cool.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been great to get to know you.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you and I spoke the other night on the phone temporarily, and um, we have a lot of the same story.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we could sit here and have a complaint fest for hours and and relate to each other.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh our departments treated us the same.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, that's not what it's about.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about focusing on the trauma or the drama or the negative.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's about those turning points in life where things start to turn up.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when you make the decision to take the gun out of your mouth and put it in, you put that energy into something else.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: For you, the lawyer, for me, a whole new life, rebuilding my family.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: That is really what life is all about.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: God gives us those second chances.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: You and I had plenty of moments God could have plucked us from this earth and taken us home.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: He chose to let us live.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that is pretty amazing.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being on the show today.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for taking the time to tell your story, share with our listeners, somebody out there will get something from what we spoke about today, because I guarantee you, with as many listeners as we have on this podcast, somebody is experiencing something similar today.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, ladies and gentlemen, thank you guys so much for listening.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Please come back next week for another episode of the Turning Point series where we're going to look at marriage, we're going to look at trials and tribulation and rebuilding marriage after times of trauma, crisis, and quite frankly, the brink of divorce.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, we love you.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is a merge to music podcast.