Latest / The Scene Projects / Sandy Grewal on Authenticity, Storytelling, and Empowerment

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Sandy Grewal on Authenticity, Storytelling, and Empowerment · The Scene Projects

• 0:12
  Welcome in to another exciting episode of Real Biz.
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  I am your host Bubba Starts, and with me today is the founder of Sandy Gray Consulting, Sandy
• 0:20
  Graywall.
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  Sandy, welcome to the show.
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  Thank you so much for having me.
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  I am absolutely thrilled to have you here and honored.
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  I know that you have an inspiring story to share, and I know that you're working on a lot
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  of big things with a lot of big names in the entertainment world and otherwise.
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  But, before we get into all of that, we'd love to just give you the floor here for a little
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  bit off the top.
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  And, have you give us a little bit of your backstory?
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  Of course.
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  So I was born in Montreal, Canada.
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  I know they always say they want the short version, so I'll try to keep it as short as
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  possible.
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  You take your time.
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  Too long.
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  Came to LA at 12 years old.
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  You know, the family had moved, at that time for business opportunities.
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  As they say, LA is always the place to come when you're too big for your hometown.
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  So everyone was in that entertainment world and that, you know, the celebrity world, which we
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  all grew up in.
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  I, you know, got a MBA, then I got another master's.
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  I went to USC to pursue my double master's in communications, and I had met someone that
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  portrayed themselves as, you know, a friend, got to know everything about me.
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  This was way before Tinder Swindler or anything we ever knew about that, and just continued to
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  use me over a decade.
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  And I think the biggest life lesson I learned was to alchemize everything that's happened to
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  you and really step into that positivity in life.
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  We're all here for a reason.
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  We're not just here to live and die.
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  And I use now my story to inspire others and to really help, especially minority owned
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  businesses, women owned businesses to show them what's what you're capable of.
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  You know, you don't need branding for 18,000 a month and PR for 10,000 a month, retainers of
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  doing nothing.
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  You know, you can do it yourself.
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  And these are the ways and the tools and the methods that I learned that I hope I can pass
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  down to you and just show them different ways of doing things and not getting stuck.
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  You know?
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  So if it's COVID, now we're pivoting and we're using that time to build and not break.
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  And so it's been a really eye opening experience, you know, to come full circle of
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  life.
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  No.
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  And I and I love your comeback story, and I love how you're turning that into an
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  inspiration for others to be able to turn, their own lives or or businesses around.
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  And exactly what you've said about the public relations side, I think a lot of people get
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  trapped into thinking that, you need someone in this field maybe to help you get onto the news
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  or in the papers or or some of those things.
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  What they don't understand is that those outlets are just as hungry for content as as
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  you are hungry to get on them.
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  And once you know the avenues to kind of approach that in now, you know, a good PR
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  person can get you into some places that you couldn't get yourself.
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  But Yeah.
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  You know, I was very fortunate to kinda learn the game a little bit and to get myself onto
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  local TV news and in the papers
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  and on
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  the radio and to to do a lot of that stuff all all on my own.
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  So understanding that it's possible, I think, is that first step.
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  Now whether people want to do the work to get there, it's there.
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  But you don't need to go and spend this exorbitant amount of money, you know, in the 5
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  figures just to get a retainer to, you know, just to have an opportunity to talk to someone
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  about it.
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  Like, that that's not I I don't think that's necessary.
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  And in this day and age of of just, like, the overwhelm of content that's out there, there's
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  people out there that would love to talk to you and let you tell your story.
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  Yes.
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  And I think it all boils down, you know, working with HSN and QVC, I've really learned
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  that their model works over time and transcends time because it's all about authenticity and
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  storytelling.
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  It's not about the material.
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  It's not about what you gain.
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  It's genuinely helping people.
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  And if the money comes, great.
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  And if it doesn't, great.
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  You know, you move on.
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  But, you know, there's so many stories of, I think, when people always try to keep me small.
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  I was featured in the newspaper.
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  I had a mustache, of course, little girls, you know, in sixth grade, and I was featured in the
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  newspaper.
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  I was so embarrassed, but I think God was giving me moments of, you know, this is your
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  story, but I never believed in it.
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  So I think when I had met this girl that I considered someone very close, I gave
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  everything.
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  I wanted that love.
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  I wanted that freedom.
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  I didn't want an arranged marriage.
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  And I think I poured all my energies into believing in people.
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  And, you know, the world wears masks, you know, and now we're finally in a time of when the
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  masks are unveiling and coming off, and you're seeing people for who they are and what they
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  bring.
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  And it's not a money pitch or anything.
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  It's genuinely, here's a product.
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  If it fits you, great.
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  If it doesn't, great.
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  We're moving on.
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  You know?
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  And I do feel like you said, calling people.
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  No one's gonna have the hunger and drive that you did to be on the news channel.
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  It's so impressive and to highlight people because I think people underestimate what it
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  takes to have a thousand nose and the door slammed in your face.
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  But, you know, being Punjabi, an Indian, I was always born into a world where I was brown
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  skinned, you know, the Indians, the Punjabis are all about fair skin, and now they've
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  evolved.
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  But that was beauty growing up, so I was never that mold.
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  And I'm like, gosh, after trying to fit in the mold, you know, you get so depressed.
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  Why not just break the mold and make it your own?
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  And I think that's what I teach people how to break out of that matrix and what people think
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  you should be because half of the fear is all, being rejected from people or what they're
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  gonna think.
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  And, you know, I think it feels great to be rejected because you're growing and evolving.
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  So I think if we start looking at life in a different lens and see why are we here, what
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  have we learned, how are we moving forward versus if you've noticed, you still stay stuck
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  in the same lessons.
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  You know?
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  And even with PR, they'll put it on a celebrity, but that celebrity doesn't know your
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  name.
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  She doesn't know anything about you.
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  You know?
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  I was so grateful.
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  I think over maybe this is over a decade ago.
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  My one of my first celebrities I worked with was Emmanuel Shariki.
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  And she was the kindest, most amazing down to earth girl.
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  And I used to love watching her on Entourage as Sloane.
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  And, you know, she was working with What
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  What a great character.
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  She's beautiful inside out.
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  Like, her inner energy just radiates, and we hit it off because we're both Canadian.
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  And she was just so kind, you know, she could have been like, oh, brown girl or whatever.
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  Like, you know, I'm gonna be with my team of people, but she just kept gravitating because
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  she understood what I was pulling was not about the brand or what they're paying me to put on
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  her.
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  And, you know, they actually weren't even paying me.
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  They you know, I was putting it on because I genuinely love everything I do and touch and
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  turn it into gold.
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  And that's, I think, the message she took from it.
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  And she was just such a beautiful soul and just so radiant and that's I think why she just
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  keeps moving on in life, and you just see her doing great things.
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  I just watched a movie of her.
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  I think it was on Hulu or Netflix.
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  Not Netflix.
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  One of the Christmas movies, and she's just so hard touching.
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  And she really is who she is on and off camera.
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  And I think that's really important to get to those bare bones of, like, who people are, and
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  I love what you're doing of understanding not only the product or anything, but the people
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  behind it.
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  Because anyone can present themselves of I do a, b, and c, but who's really behind the
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  scenes?
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  It's like the Wizard of Oz.
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  You know?
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  I'm doing a, b, c, and you pull off the veil and they know nothing about nothing.
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  But I've learned, you know, you should step to the forefront.
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  You should inspire people, and I think that's why photographers with models, like, you know,
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  now they're the models are becoming on the behind the scenes because they wanna understand
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  the full scope, and they really wanna understand the industry and blends and
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  perception and angles.
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  And I think those are the kind of people even I'm targeting to work with, the visionaries of,
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  like, what's next and how can we move forward, not the ones that are stuck, you know, or, you
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  know, we're at this title or that title.
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  COVID taught us we're all the same.
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  You know, the grocery store worker is just as important as a doctor, and that's what my
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  father taught me.
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  He was a cab driver, and he built the subway franchise with family, you know, with obviously
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  Fred DeLuca, and they have thousands of stores, and they've just been so inspirational.
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  So what I thought was, you know, they're suppressing me.
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  Now it's like, The freedom of, what they've built and how hard they work, like, anything is
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  possible.
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  And I think that's, you know, born and bred in me, but I just was following people's dreams,
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  not my own.
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  And I think consulting has really taught me too, like, you know, they're not on the same
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  page sometimes.
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  You're on page 10, and they can't even see the vision of page one.
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  So now it's like, great.
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  We could do that on the side, but let's table that and keep moving.
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  Yeah.
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  Some people, it's very hard to get past the cover.
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  And especially with business owners that are, you know, maybe very good operators of their
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  business and have something, they're not necessarily good storytellers.
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  And I think that's kind of why I like my show and I like my position kind of in media right
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  now is I'm a little bit of your public relations, bit.
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  Right?
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  Like, not just hosting you on here, but helping you kinda pull at that story a little bit, to
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  pull at those threads.
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  And that's why I always like to start off with a little bit of someone's backstory and
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  allowing them to just share and having that freedom.
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  And that may be the best part about doing this over the Internet and on StreamYard like we are
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  here today is that people are always somewhere where they're very comfortable.
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  They're not coming into a studio space or somewhere that they've never been before.
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  They are in their private areas often, their office or a bedroom or or somewhere in their
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  house, and they are more at ease with the conversation then.
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  And my job is to really just give them the space to share that story and maybe tug out a
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  few things that they don't find interesting about themselves or that story that myself and
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  from my lived experience find fascinating.
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  Oh, totally.
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  And I I totally agree.
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  And I think it's so fascinating you were on the news channels of the music story.
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  I'd love to learn more about that.
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  You know, I think it's so fascinating too.
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  My friend William taught me this.
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  He was with the NFL, and he did all the Victoria's Secret shows and the event planning
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  and whatnot, and he was just brilliant, you know, and he we had a dinner one time, like a
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  business dinner, and he said, I'm inviting people from all different backgrounds.
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  One's gonna be a doctor.
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  One will be a, you know, a club guy at the door, and one's gonna be a jeweler.
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  And it's he kind of mixed up because as you've seen, like, even on the Real Housewives or
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  reality shows, they put who you belong within a corner and you're, like, ganged up and you feel
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  safe and comfort.
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  But he broke all the boundaries and he was placing everyone on different things.
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  So now I'm talking to a lawyer that's doing, you know, water power supply that I have no
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  idea what she's saying and she has no idea about my world and it was just so fascinating.
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  That was one of the most amazing conversations I've ever had, like, I think ever of a woman
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  just in her power of, you know, what she does and not understanding it, but igniting
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  something within of, like, wanting to learn more and maybe the world is bigger than just
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  what the news is showing us.
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  Like, let's learn about people's actual backgrounds and not so AI generated and I'm
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  victim to that too.
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  You wanna reword things, but you have to make it your own where they feel that energy coming
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  through because then you just all sound like robots.
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  You know, someone will say it's a great day today and they write a paragraph.
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  The day is great because a something, you know.
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  It's like, let's get back to and again, this takes me back to HSN QVC.
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  They have it down right.
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  They, you know, they've evolved with the time and they're really telling stories, and that's
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  I think where Amazon differs a little.
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  They brought in all the influencers and the product lines and but that story is not really
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  there.
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  You're just looking at the product.
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  But QVC, HSN, they're sharing the story and the product line and moving it through.
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  And I think it's so important as even a life lesson of when you talk to people, you don't
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  just, you know okay.
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  I have a little confession to make.
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  So my full name, Indian given name is Sandeep, and I was so embarrassed by it that I actually,
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  when I became naturalized citizen, I changed it to Sandy, my nickname.
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  And it kind of makes me rethink now, you know, I am very deep and I was like, I should have
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  kept my name.
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  So how do I get my name back?
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  You know?
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  And I think that's what America teaches us.
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  Like, the immigrants, like, it's all about the immigrants.
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  You're building America.
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  But guess what?
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  Now you're all being kicked out and under these circumstances.
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  So you have to see illusion and messaging and reality.
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  And my now basis of my messaging messaging has become reality.
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  No like, no fluff, no like, you know, let's have an honest conversation.
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  Even buyers, you know, they sometimes they'll ghost you obviously or a 100 calls will lead to
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  one golden call, But I've been so blessed at this time after going through that ringer that
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  they actually pick up the phone and they'll just have an honest conversation.
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  You're you know, this product is not doing it for us.
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  Okay.
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  Thank you very much.
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  I really appreciate your time.
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  That's it.
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  Rather than not answering your call and then the person's extending energy, and now you're
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  blocking them, and they're expanding energy.
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  Now you both are in a cluster mind fuck, and you're just like, I'm going here.
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  You're going like, it's just why?
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  Why?
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  It's just I think people are learning about energy and containment, and it's so important,
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  And don't waste it, and just put it into things that matter.
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  So I love what you're doing too, you know, with your podcast.
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  And, you know, even with me and my personal story, it's crazy.
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  No one would ever believe it.
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  It's like the movies.
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  Even I don't believe it.
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  It just I was filled with illusion.
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  And, you know, I don't lead with that.
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  I lead with what did I learn?
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  Where are we now?
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  Where are we going?
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  And I think it's just so important what you're doing and how many people you're helping on a
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  day to day basis from all backgrounds coming from music.
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  And, again, I'm a jewel.
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  Like, how, you know, the world's mix and how you all come together.
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  Yeah.
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  And it really just comes from a passion for getting to know people, wanting to have
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  intriguing, inspiring conversations, and that's why I kinda lead with that, you know, with my
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  pitch a lot on LinkedIn now because I'm looking to expand our horizons and and to connect with
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  people outside of the music world because I found ways to connect with more musicians.
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  I don't have to do as much one to one now being a part of several different award shows, having
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  those pools while there's already people here.
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  So I can get a lot of I can be more efficient with the energy that I do have, which frees me
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  up to do other things.
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  It doesn't free me up to relax.
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  I don't even know, the meaning of the word anymore, if I'm being perfectly honest.
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  But, it it frees me up to go and to have more conversations, to meet inspiring individuals
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  such as yourself, Sandy, and everything that you've been through to be now, you know, kinda
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  back on top of the world.
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  It would have been very easy for you to just float through life and to be the Indian
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  princess that you could have been.
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  Right?
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  It would have been very easy for you to choose that path.
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  And instead, you chose to go get a double masters, and I don't think a lot of people
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  would assume you're so well educated being this beautiful woman that I see before me that, you
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  know, you have more degrees on your wall than 95% of the population.
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  My wife is a very well educated woman herself.
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  She had already had a degree and then got into teaching and took not just one major but two
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  and picked up a minor along the way.
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  And not that, you know, the certificates on the wall are an end all be all, but the work that
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  she's doing being a special educator has brought out this side of my wife that I I
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  didn't know was even in there.
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  Right?
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  And I think to some degree, she didn't either.
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  And and and much the same way that you didn't know this person that sits before me now was
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  inside of, you know, a a very impressionable 20.
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  Oh, exactly.
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  And, you know, I think well, now that we're talking about it.
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  Well, first off, I think your wife is amazing for teaching, and it's such a selfless act to
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  be in that realm.
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  You know?
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  I think it's so important to have people like that and women like that with the hearts
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  because I think America shows you how to kind of close off and don't show emotion and you're
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  in a business meeting and don't do this, don't do that.
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  But my, you know, I learned from my family growing up that you always treat everyone the
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  same.
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  A janitor or a president, you would never know and you're right.
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  I could have easily, who couldn't have?
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  Like at 18 or 20 married the doctor, the lawyer had to mention the cars, but I always knew
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  there's something greater for me.
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  And I think when I had met this person in college who portrayed to be a good friend and,
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  you know, they knew the freedom and the love I wanted and that takes you full circle because
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  it I mean, I I call myself dumb sometimes because I was so blinded by, you know, but, you
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  know, different things come into play because I think when you know the whole story for
• 18:12
  instance, you know, there was a psychic that was a clairvoyant that I actually believe that
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  if you don't leave home tonight, you're gonna die.
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  So I left home.
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  And these kind of components and factors that I found out only later that it was her the whole
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  time creating fake accounts on social media, finding out things and friends and cutting you
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  off and isolating.
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  And I think, you know, going through that, it was just always giving your power away.
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  And then every time I moved city to city, now I'm living with these people that are strangers
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  virtually, you know, getting a room and most of the women, if not all, were being paid to date
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  and asked me, hey, you have a rich look.
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  I'm like a rich look.
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  You don't know what I've been through.
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  You know, why don't you date ABC?
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  And I said never.
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  I will never.
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  That's my integrity.
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  And I I think the whole see the full circle of life was that if I didn't go through all those
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  people, I wasn't learning the lesson that's why I kept repeating.
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  The lesson was if you don't leave and have your own power, it's kind of like even if it was a
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  girl, it's kinda like a pimp, you know, kinda giving your power away and being vulnerable.
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  So I think I'm teaching women, and I'm actually glad I went through everything in life because
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  I've been helping shape so many lives in, like, the back end that I don't even talk about kind
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  of like the, you know, just what I do on a day to day basis of helping these girls and being
• 19:39
  the bad guy or the fall guy.
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  I don't care.
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  You know, they always wanna ruin your character because you're speaking the truth.
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  And I've learned now to step on the forefront.
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  That doesn't matter to me.
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  I don't care.
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  You can say I'm ABC as long as I'm helping you not be in the situation you're in.
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  And if I could get out of something, you can get out of it.
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  And I had no car for twenty five years.
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  I was driving a friend's car that had control over me.
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  So you physically can't leave.
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  It's like a bad housewife, you know, of having the control of that.
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  So I think I left home wanting freedom little to know I'm back into a cage, and now it's that
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  real freedom of doing everything on your own, making your own decisions.
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  And living in America with freedom, I think we take it for granted of these small little
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  rights we have.
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  And against the world now, even with Iran, I think we're learning, you know, just how to
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  kind of not build against politics alone, but go beyond that, you know, and go beyond just a
• 20:40
  regime and, like, think more western and, you know, you don't wanna be stuck in time.
• 20:44
  You wanna evolve, you know, and I think that's really important.
• 20:49
  And, again, I lost my chance to have kids and people will say, no, you didn't, but I'm gonna
• 20:55
  be 47 years old, you know.
• 20:58
  And it's tough because I was in that situation that I gave up those kind of things that you
• 21:02
  don't realize until later in life.
• 21:04
  Like, God, like, unless it's adoption or fostering, but then God gave me that story now
• 21:09
  because, obviously, I can use that to further maybe another child's life and save them.
• 21:15
  And I actually just saw this, you know, this father was smoking in this baby's face.
• 21:20
  She's a toddler.
• 21:21
  And my heart went out to her and I'm like, you know, I sometimes can't help myself.
• 21:25
  I told myself, don't get in any more situations.
• 21:28
  It's not your business unless they ask you, but I just cannot help myself.
• 21:31
  I was compelled to he's a young father smoking in the toddler's face and he has her right in
• 21:38
  front of a smoke shop that they're going in and out of his friend's smoke shop.
• 21:41
  And I don't wanna call the police because I don't wanna get them involved with CBS and I
• 21:45
  don't wanna be a tattletale and lose her connection with the father, but, you know, I
• 21:51
  had to go confront him.
• 21:52
  And these are like gangster looking guys.
• 21:53
  You know, there's like a group of them.
• 21:55
  And I knew maybe they could pull a gun on me or do ABC, but I think God gave me that voice
• 22:00
  because you have to step up and share your voice, and I think not get hardened by your
• 22:07
  situation.
• 22:08
  Everything I think if we start changing our perspective of why things happen the way they
• 22:14
  do, we can really evolve to new heights and help each other because that's all we have.
• 22:19
  At the end of the day, we're all equal and we're all here just to help each other.
• 22:23
  You know, we're not here to one up each other.
• 22:25
  There's enough stars in the sky.
• 22:27
  I make it my daily mission.
• 22:29
  I'll just call someone and say, how can I help you today?
• 22:31
  And even a vision they can't see, I'll give them and they're like, Like, you know, and
• 22:36
  let's get this rolling for you.
• 22:38
  Use my contact.
• 22:39
  Use my network.
• 22:40
  Like, I grew up in Montreal.
• 22:42
  We were going to the neighbor's houses not even knowing who they were knocking saying, hey.
• 22:46
  We don't have a pool.
• 22:47
  Can we come to yours?
• 22:48
  You know?
• 22:49
  And, like, where is that?
• 22:50
  Let's build community, not AI communities, you know, of, like, robotic and everyone's becoming
• 22:56
  about one-minded, like, you know, busyness.
• 22:59
  It's like, let's break away.
• 23:00
  Who were we before the Internet?
• 23:02
  Let's go back to wholesomeness and kindness and just love.
• 23:06
  And I think that's a long, long, long lesson I've learned, but very grateful I did.
• 23:14
  No.
• 23:14
  And, you know, kind of alluding to the story that you shared.
• 23:17
  I mean, this young situation probably doesn't have a lot of positive didn't have a lot of
• 23:22
  positive role models in his life, didn't have anyone to tell him, hey.
• 23:26
  Don't smoke in front of the baby.
• 23:28
  Right?
• 23:28
  Like, maybe this isn't great for for your young child, and it's not fair to put her in that
• 23:33
  position.
• 23:34
  And, you know, it's something that I grew up.
• 23:36
  I was born in the eighties, so they all smoked cigarettes around us and in the car with us
• 23:41
  and, you know, a different a different world, but now we know better.
• 23:45
  So when you know better, do better.
• 23:47
  And and I think that that's a great lesson that people can take away and that people can glean
• 23:52
  from two individuals like us that have lived, you know, harder lives than some, still very
• 23:58
  blessed lives, I would add, for for each of us, but that we're very open about sharing our our
• 24:05
  hardships and to let the lessons be gleaned from that and do don't do as I have done.
• 24:13
  Right?
• 24:14
  Not don't do as I do.
• 24:15
  Right?
• 24:16
  I'm trying to do better, and I'm trying to get better every day the same as you are.
• 24:19
  And if I can share some piece of that with you, whether it be on the business side or a
• 24:24
  personal life or your health, then it it's my duty to do that.
• 24:29
  As a fellow human being that wants to see our entire human race evolve, not just a, you know,
• 24:36
  a a small regional you know, a local community, a regional community, a nation, As as a human
• 24:43
  race, I want to see us all get better.
• 24:46
  Yes.
• 24:47
  And, you know, it's funny because you'll usually hear, like, people making their way up
• 24:50
  in life but not going backwards in life.
• 24:52
  Like, god gave you everything, and then you're like, oh, no.
• 24:55
  Thanks.
• 24:55
  I'll go like Buddha, you know, and I really I'm not saying I'm Buddha by any means.
• 25:00
  Don't get it wrong.
• 25:00
  But I'm just saying that mindset of like, I'm gonna go climb up the walls and go see what's
• 25:05
  out in the real world, and you see sickness and prostitution and drugs and deals and
• 25:10
  everything, and you're just like, wow.
• 25:13
  And I think it just comes full circle of the blessings that you do have, but then the
• 25:18
  materialism is ripped away because you just see how the real world lives, you know.
• 25:22
  And going back to this little girl I saw, I'm just like, god, you could have had such a
• 25:26
  promising life, the hand you're dealt with.
• 25:29
  And, you know, when I talked to the father, he's probably, like, 20.
• 25:32
  He has no idea, you know, what he's doing.
• 25:35
  He thinks, like, the mom is ABC, and I'm taking care of her, and I'm watching her, but they're
• 25:40
  not thinking the next, you know, like, secondhand smoke or a toddler.
• 25:45
  And, you know, and I think a normal person would have probably just called the cops, but
• 25:50
  to have compassion to go talk to them.
• 25:52
  Now if you see it again after you talk to them, then that's a situation you have to handle, you
• 25:57
  know.
• 25:58
  But I think too many people are afraid to speak up and you have to just be confident.
• 26:04
  They strip you away of all your freed everything, you know, and I think that's
• 26:08
  something I've really learned is to step into your power and be unapologetically yourself.
• 26:14
  And usually, people will know the masses or they're gonna know that one person that knows
• 26:19
  the masses.
• 26:19
  I've always been that popular loner.
• 26:22
  You know?
• 26:23
  I had all the people around, but I just wanted to go in my little shell.
• 26:26
  And I think, you know, living that kind of a life, it's like you connect with everyone, but
• 26:33
  who's really gonna be there for you in times of hardships and need?
• 26:36
  And you really have your circle be so small and intimate that, you know, the energy is just
• 26:43
  always percolating and things are happening and great things are happening because you're not
• 26:47
  letting that, like, any other energy poke in.
• 26:50
  And I think it's yeah.
• 26:52
  We're just in this energy defining era of leaving with your frequency, not your degrees
• 26:57
  or what you've done.
• 26:58
  Like, who are you now?
• 27:00
  What have you learned?
• 27:01
  What do you bring to the table?
• 27:03
  And how are we gonna make this work?
• 27:05
  And I think, you know, I just I want more realness from this world.
• 27:09
  You know, life is so short.
• 27:10
  It's like, let's go back to the bare basics.
• 27:13
  Like, how come our grandmothers were wearing these long nighties having, like, six kids, and
• 27:17
  now everyone's like, I wanna be in the bad beer and, you know yeah.
• 27:21
  But all these women like Beyonce singing single ladies and hyping you up as married with kids.
• 27:27
  Like, let's start reality and messaging.
• 27:29
  Let's in alignment.
• 27:30
  You know?
• 27:30
  Let's get alignment with who we are, what we're saying, what we're preaching, and I think
• 27:36
  that's what's gonna attract the right people and tribe to us.
• 27:40
  No doubt.
• 27:41
  Well, Sandy, what a lovely conversation.
• 27:43
  Thank you for spending some time with me today.
• 27:46
  I absolutely appreciate it.
• 27:47
  Go ahead and share one more time, the website and everything else, where people can find you
• 27:53
  and have a chance to work with you.
• 27:55
  Thank you so much.
• 27:56
  I really appreciate it.
• 27:57
  Sandy grey consulting dot com.
• 28:01
  Fantastic.
• 28:02
  Well, Sandy, I just appreciate you.
• 28:04
  It's been lovely getting to know you over our past few conversations.
• 28:08
  I hope that we have a chance to meet in person someday if I ever make it out West again.
• 28:14
  It's been a while, but absolutely lovely to share another another conversation with you.
• 28:21
  And thank you for being part of the scene.
• 28:23
  Thank you so much, and thank your wife, please, for doing the amazing work she's doing with
• 28:28
  special ed.
• 28:28
  It takes a lot of patience, and I think in this microwavable popcorn society, you have no
• 28:36
  patience, and I'm guilty of it till you just want things right here right now.
• 28:39
  I think it takes a really special soul to you know?
• 28:43
  And I hope we see her on the podcast soon.
• 28:46
  Me too, Sandy.
• 28:47
  Have a great day, and we'll chat soon.
• 28:49
  You too.
• 28:50
  Take care.
• 28:51
  Bye.