Latest / Skin Anarchy / Jenna Rosenstein, Beauty Director at BAZAAR.com

Transcript

Jenna Rosenstein, Beauty Director at BAZAAR.com · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so right before the episode, I wanted to pop in and give a huge shout out to Anissa Beauty.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Their skincare brushline is something that I literally cannot live without at this point.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I use it for almost every step in my skincare routine, and it's actually made a huge difference in the way that I'm using skincare as a treatment and really looking for the results I want with the amount of product that I want to use.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a way for me to not only use the products in a more efficient way, but also kind of take note of the doses of each of the serum or moisturizer or more importantly, SPF that I'm utilizing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: The brushes are absolutely luxurious and they feel amazing on your skin.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So go check it out, Anissa Beauty Skincare Brushes, and stay tuned for this episode.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks guys.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ekta, and I have another amazing editorial guest for you guys today.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm super, super excited because I have been a die-hard fan of this magazine and publication for so many years.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's such an honor to be hosting their beauty director.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Jenna Rosenstein, who is the beauty director for Bizarre.com.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Jenna.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for making the time for this.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love that, you know, I'm able to connect with you because I, like I said, I'm a huge fan of Harper's Bazaar.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always have been.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to hear like um everything that led to this for you and you know, um, your whole journey in editorial.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love for you to tell us everything.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, same.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up um reading Harper's Bazaar um every single month.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when they started their website, I was always, you know, logged on back when it was like kind of a blog.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and now to be, and now to be, you know, in charge of the entire beauty vertical for all digital content is just, it's a dream job.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I can imagine.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when you first wanted to do editorial, when did you know that you wanted to go into journalism and editorial and all that good stuff?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was a little bit of an odd child in the sense that I knew what I wanted to do from a very young age, like around, I'd say like six or seven, maybe was the first time that I realized um I wanted to move to New York and I wanted to, you know, do something in fashion.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, my mom tells a story of one of the times where we visited New York City and I asked what all those purple flags were on all those buildings downtown, and she said, Oh, that's a college.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's NYU.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, Oh, well, I'm gonna go there.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, sure enough, I I did.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just so obsessed with getting to New York, leaving Florida where I grew up, and getting into the fashion industry somehow.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um Noah, you're from Florida.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just actually moved to New York from Florida.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where in Florida for you?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Delray Beach.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was living in Delray Beach.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not too far from me.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm from Weston, Florida originally, represent Weston.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Woo woo.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um but no, so I I, you know, always had a passion for writing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think by the time I was maybe, you know, 13 or 14, I was, you know, writing, creating my own magazines for school projects and just really obsessed with, you know, journalism, you know, winning, you know, going into the high school newspaper.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was an editor of a high school newspaper, um, you know, writing essays and just like being really, really obsessed with journalism.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of knew all throughout high school that I wanted to go to NYU and major in some kind of journalism profession.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought the way into that industry was through fashion because it never in a million years occurred to me that beauty editors existed.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know why.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was just so, you know, so much of pop culture at the time.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you're talking about like Deborah War's Prada and all of that, like you didn't really see the beauty editors in that.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was with like runway shows and fashion editors, and um, you know, there's uh another funny story I tell is that in high school I was on uh briefly, like not a star of it, but on an MTV reality show.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it was called The Paper, and it was about high school newspaper, um, about my high school newspaper, and it ran for one season.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, I was a junior at the time they were filming, so I was kind of like a background cast member.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And on the first episode, if anyone finds it online, but in the first episode, there's a clip of me saying, like, I want to be the next on a wind tour.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow!
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is like find that clip.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: You have to.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's so, so funny um to look back at that now.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I always knew that this is what I wanted to go into, but it took me um many years and many internships later to realize that beauty was my path.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that being said, I was obsessed with beauty, um, kind of simultaneous to, you know, my my discovery of my love for journalism was my mom had gotten a job as um a regional merchandising manager um at a department store where she would all of a sudden get to come home from business trips with suitcases full of beauty products.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was the coolest job ever.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was like 15 when she started, and she would come home after like a week away and just you know, wake me up early in the morning and dump out a suitcase full of like La Prairie and La Mer and Shenoka and Best job ever.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Best job ever.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we were losing our minds because growing up prior to that point, like we were, you know, saving up Mac lipsticks to trade them in for one free lipstick at the department store counter.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we were into makeup and beauty, but never in this extravagant, over-the-top way, and then all of a sudden, all of this free product started to come with her job, and so I very quickly became like a very snobby 15-year-old using only like law prairie skincare.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um you had the best skin in the store.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought that was like normal.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for like all my friends' birthday parties, I'd gift them like Hermes fragrance and like just thought Oh my gosh.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm I was like, this is normal, right?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just cool, it's a it was a cool coincidence, you know, that my mom's job, you know, gifted her all this stuff.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and that was really foreshadowing of uh what the beauty industry was like.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so then, you know, it took it took a a while.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I didn't realize I wanted to be a beauty editor until I was maybe 20.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but yeah, I've always I've I feel like I've always I've been destined to be on this path, I guess.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean you said it right when you were a kid.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you have been manifesting this for a long time.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's true, it really is true.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I love that you have such an organic journey with beauty too, because I think um, especially as women, like we we all have our own, you know, like story and like what really led us down this path.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's interesting when you um brought up Devil Wears Prada, that's honestly what I thought the beauty industry was like before I even started this podcast.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started it, I was like, okay, wait a minute, there are tears.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me figure out like editor and beauty director.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I just, you know, I didn't know there were so many roles.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, I completely understand what you meant by that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to I want to actually ask you though about Bazaar.com specifically, because I know that right now, you know, um there's a lot more push for digital media and digital coverage, you know, and I know a lot of magazines, you know, have had to make the shift.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: So like when you like when did you come into Bazaar.com?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Were you like from the beginning of the shift happening or like how was that?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's a it's a good question.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and honestly, the answer is it's constantly shifting.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I started almost five years ago now, which is crazy to me because it feels like it's been the blink of an eye and it's been five years.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: But when I started um five years ago, I left my previous job um at, I don't know, five o'clock.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, bye guys, I'm starting a new job.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Got on the subway and started covering the Tom Ford show for Fashion Week for Bizarre.com.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And like hadn't even gotten my ID picture taken yet for the Hearst Tower.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I started, I had a subway ride distance between my two jobs.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I knew that this was the job I was I always wanted.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I interned at Bazaar um in gosh, what year was it?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: 2012 maybe.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just fell in love with the magazine and the culture and the staff and just their entire, you know, yeah, it dynamics just everything about Bazaar I thought was magical.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just really loved how they brought the fun to fashion, um, which having had so many internships at different places, that's definitely not always the case.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just love that there's always this like just whimsical, fun element um that that Bazaar just manages to tap into while also you know looking into bigger issues um and women's issues and in health and wellness.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just fell in love with that.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But um, anyways, like five years ago when I started, I mean, we didn't have a video team.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a very like um rudimentary, like, you know, a couple of people at Hearst.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: There was no video team, even social media wasn't as big.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we had, we were able to just kind of like log on to the Instagram account whenever we wanted and take it over.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was no like plan or rules, and we were really just figuring it out.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that was a really fun environment to walk into because the changes that I've seen in the last five years, you know, to go from not having a video team to, you know, our incredible video team now led by Catherine and Isabel and Lauren and Rob and all these incredible people who work on it, um, to work with them and to create, you know, I've been able to create my entire own video series on YouTube that lived um you know for a couple of years.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just and what's it called?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's your what's it called?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we had we have a couple.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um the one that is probably the most viral that I've I've helped work on, but the video team now really has just let it, it's become its own beast and they've grown it into this amazing um you know video series is go to bed with me, which is our skincare series.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um people like go and they show us their nighttime skincare routine.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I had one called Beauty Stash, where I would go to all kinds of makeup artists and hairstylists' homes or um storage units and see like their incredible collection of makeup.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really fun to be able to do those interviews.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and then just to see the evolution, you know, being able to grow our Instagram to however gosh, I don't even know how many it is now, it's like probably like four million or something.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: How our Instagram has grown, how our YouTube presence has grown, and to then see how our e-commerce and our our traffic has just exploded has been so exciting because I feel like you know, I've really been a part of something big.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and to now like see it really be this like monster player in the you know digital fashion and beauty space has been um just really an honor to work with the team that I've you know worked with the last five years.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just really, really proud of everything we've done.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, and she and you should be.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think like just to add as a consumer's perspective, you know, for me, Harper's Bazaar has always been this like, um, you know, we all have ways that we perceive magazines.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm a magazine girl through and through, you know, so I love all of them.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, Harper's Bazaar was always this very sophisticated, but very down-to-earth, like did, you know what I mean?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like just this publication that I felt like I could grow with, you know, and grow into as I reached my 20s and now in my 30s.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's just this beautiful, sophisticated place where like, you know, I see things or like I'll notice products or you know, articles that I just really genuinely connect with as a woman in her 30s, you know what I mean?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like that as I've grown through my professional career.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like, you know, the magazine itself has this like aura of just complete professionalism, but like cutting barriers and you know what I mean, like still like showing you fashion and beauty in a very exciting way that makes that that really makes you think.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for me, like after this podcast, like I want to actually ask your opinion because you know, being in the beauty world, um, you know, I know that you get so surrounded by like all the tangible stuff, right?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, we talked about the PR and I'm physically surrounded by it right now in my office at home.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know exactly, yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we get so surrounded by that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I want to ask you, like, you know, as a journalist and from that, you know, perspective, how do you approach things that are not so tangible?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're working on a piece that's it's more, you know, like you you get to write about things that are more than just you know beauty products, like how do you approach that?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you, you know, keep that balance in your like you know, professional life journalism between writing about beauty, you know, and not making it, yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say um I always considered myself like I've always loved beauty, but an advice advice I often give, you know, young women or men who want to um, you know, come into a position like mine is more than anything, it's about the writing and the voice than it is about your obsession or love for beauty.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Plenty of people love beauty, but it's can you write about it in a way that's interesting or funny or different or relatable?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so for me, I've always considered myself a journalist first and a beauty editor second.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've gotten to really play with that, you know, in the course of my career too.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And some things I'm really proud of.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when I was at Allure magazine, I was there for three and a half years, and I often say that I felt like I grew up there.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I started as a beauty assistant um when Linda Wells was still the editor-in-chief, and just was able to learn from all of these incredible editors and women, and um just got like the ultimate masterclass in being a journalist and a beauty editor from all of those, you know, women who were at Bazaar at the time, or sorry, at um Allure at the time.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, they gave me the opportunity to pursue two really, really cool features.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one was um about the rise of skin cancer among younger women, and the second one was about um tanning beds on college campuses, and um the second one won a um Skin Cancer Foundation Media Award.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just really proud of that because it was um it really pushed me out of my comfort zone.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think I must have been like, I don't know, 24 years old at the time, and they trusted me to fly to Arizona and go on the ground and talk to students and do be a real investigative reporter, um, which you know they put a lot of trust in me, but it was that kind of I knew the story was really important and it, you know, was related to beauty, but it was related really to health.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the um, you know, in the last five, six, whatever years, we've really learned that beauty and health are are so intertwined.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think, yeah, and I think that has been um, you know, really exciting to me is that of course beauty can be, you know, the stuff that I do day to day with my eyes closed that I could do with my hands tied behind my back, which is like the 10 best lipsticks for, you know, the best fragrances for that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also these really important stories like um, you know, why are why are you know tanning beds free on college campuses, or one that's in our current issue of Bazaar that I wrote alongside um my print counterpart Jess Matlin is, you know, you know, let's talk about periods again and how important our periods are and all the new products that are out there for um, you know, your wellness and you know, you know, uh just about a period menstrual health in general.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just think that it really touches such a wide variety of topics.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that to me is what's so great about beauty is that it's it's not just playing with lipsticks all day, although I do that as well.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, that's exactly the point that I wanted to discuss with you because I think, you know, I have definitely as you know, a complete outsider gained that appreciation, even more so now, you know, after having had this opportunity to speak to, you know, individuals like you, because you know, growing up, of course, I always looked at magazines as, you know, a place to find my favorite new product or you know, something I really wanted, but I love the articles, you know what I mean?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love the quizzes and I love the articles, and I love the journalism.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, you know, that part of it that was in print.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I've always been curious how that translates over in terms of like the experience.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And because, you know, I'm sure from a writing perspective, you also have to change the way you write, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because like yeah, um, that was and so I've now that I'm writing for print again, and we've like, you know, merged teams so that print and digital are now one team, which has been really exciting.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a new development that's happened over the last year or so.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now able to print and or to pitch and write for print as well as my regular job on digital.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it was it felt a little bit like riding a bike.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, like, you know, you can't um write exactly the same way you would digitally.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: You it's a there's a lot of overlap, there's a lot of similarities, and I do try and still bring an element of like whimsy or fun or like a joke where I can.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, it's it is a little bit of a different writing style, and it's always really fun to be able to tap into that because um I think writing is so fun.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when I write a great story, I feel so proud of myself, but I also just feel like I gave birth because it takes so much out of me and it's so exhausting.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And nine times out of ten, I hate my writing, but then other people tell me that they think it's good.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, great, I'm so glad you thought it was good, but like, God, I hated it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think a lot of people who write, yeah, I think people feel that way.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's you know, it's been really fun to be able to flex that muscle and uh you know, write for print again.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit more like highbrow, elevated.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's exactly what I was wondering because I was like, you know, yeah, print has that like almost legacy feeling to it.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh this is prestigious.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so yeah, that's very cool.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're you know able to like really um understand that there is that difference.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, for me, I'm still transitioning digital.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I love everything about magazines, but you know, it's different, it's a different experience for sure.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I think there's a tendency for people, and I I see this a lot with freelancers that I work with, or you know, etc.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's a tendency for people to think, well, if it's digital, then you should just write like, you know, the way kids speak on TikTok, or you know, like as if you were writing a tweet.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not not necessarily the case.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I think there you can still have a sophisticated voice um on digital, and not everything has to be written in shorthand with emojis and like um and I think that that's been um something I'm proud of, especially especially something that's fun about working at the Czar, is that that's not our our brand.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our brand won't, you know, we use emojis sparingly, but we use them won't.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Use sophisticated emojis.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, honestly, I want to ask you though, one question because this is something that I've really tried to kind of compartmentalize, like in in the sense of like kind of put things, the puzzle together, is you know, right now I know everyone out there like on social media has their own blog, they have their own, like, you know, YouTube series, and then it's like, you know, they have a lot of followers or whatever.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So how does that play into like um the audience that you know, from a digital perspective that you guys generate?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does that how's that changed with this new age of like social media and everyone's an influencer and you know what I mean?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's an expert kind of thing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have you seen like a shift like in the demographic and stuff?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: We definitely not a shift necessarily in the demographic, um, but we definitely have seen a shift in um, you know, the the amount of knowledge that the consumer knows.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, maybe 10 years ago, if we were writing an article about retinol, we'd have to like really explain what retinol was.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, you know about retinol, and we don't have to explain it to you, but do you know about retinol's cousin?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's always because now it's like we, you know, everyone is an expert, as you said.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has follows dermatologists on YouTube and on Instagram, and skincare really is our bread and butter.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is where I think our audience really cares, it's like what our audience really cares about.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they trust us for skincare recommendations because we really have a reputation for speaking to women of all ages, um, talking about products that really work.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's something I take really seriously.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that people still come to us and still trust us, even though you know there are a million places you could go to for recommendations.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think they know that at the end of the day, I try everything.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'm not trying it, somebody I trust is trying it and letting me know, or I'm sending it to a dermatologist, or I'm talking to a dermatologist, or a facialist, or you know, whatever it may be, is like we really do our homework and our research, and we're not just trying to um influence you in the way that you might find on social media.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also been fun.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like as I said, we speak to women of all ages.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've always been a magazine that, you know, I think we had a fabulous at every age franchise that spoke to, you know, your 2040s.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 20, 30, 40, 50, 60s, 70 plus.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've always spoken to women in every stage of their life.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what's been really fun and interesting about the last five years I've been at Bazaar is seeing how, you know, we have a really popular Snapchat channel that the audience is, you know, between like 13 and 20 something years old.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, our YouTube audience skews kind of young.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so even our social media audience is now reaching women who are younger than we've ever spoken to, but they're still resonating with our content.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's because there's always that element of educational fun.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um that is doesn't matter if you're 13 or or 75.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you come to us because uh we know what we're talking about.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's the key, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is that I think right now, the way I see it, at least people are searching for knowledge and they're searching for facts.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the biggest problem I've found is that, you know, even if you have like a favorite influencer on TikTok or Snapchat or YouTube, anywhere, um, you know, they might know factual information, right?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I can go on to PubMed right now and type in, um, for example, you know, uh I don't know, sunscreen, right?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can pull out five facts and then I can put that up on Instagram and it's five facts.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the ability to connect pieces together, I think requires a much more, you know, practiced, you know, like it's experience.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's where the writer comes in, right?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it you have to be able to connect the pieces.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about like spewing out the science, you know, it's really about connecting why it means what it means, you know, why this matters.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's one of the biggest problems I've seen right now in this industry is that, you know, there's a lot of people that have a lot of facts, but unfortunately, there's no one out there that's piecing that together.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for example, like I I'll just say this, you know, I say it almost every episode, but like, you know, I'm a huge research person.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love medical research.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, if we let some, like, for example, PhDs, you know, talk about some of the skincare stuff, like it would make a lot more sense.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as a writer, um, the one follow-up question I have for you is, you know, as a journalist, like, how do you approach, like when you're writing something about, say, a skincare piece or one of your team members is like what kind of people do you have that you go to for your resources?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's like, you know, dermatologists and whatever, but how do you approach that?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, figuring out who to go to?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it starts for me, a story always starts with my own research.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I start gathering, um, you know, I start looking at what else has been written about this topic out there, what were they linking to and what were the sources they were linking to.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So then I go find the original sources.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I gather all that I can and I make some initial calls on where I think that the topic is going um or the story is going.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then I, but you know, I might have interpreted something wrong, as you said.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: So then that's when I take all of the information that I've gathered, gathered, and I start talking to dermatologists, if it's skincare.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think dermatologists are always the place to start.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to go to ones that are really experts in that particular topic that I'm speaking to.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's like an acne story, I would talk to Dr.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Joshua Zeichner because he is like the top acne doctor in New York City.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: If it's you know a skin cancer story, I might go to um, you know, you know, Ellen Marmer, um, Dr.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ellen Marmor.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: If it's, you know, a story on um, you know, uh, you know, skin issues that maybe women with darker skin could face, I'm going to speak to a black doctor, black dermatologist, because they can really speak both from their patients and from firsthand experience in a way that, you know, another dermatologist might not be.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I really go to like the best source for that particular topic of dermatology.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's a million dermatologists out there that we speak to all the time, but it's about finding the the ones who are the uh experts in that particular um topic.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you'll start to get either consensus among them or you'll start to hear um some like interesting, differing opinions.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if I've if it's a topic that, you know, dermatologists are are going one way, but I know facialists will go another way, um, you know, I want to hear from facialists.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So then you start talking to facialists.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you really just need to cover for me, it's about um, you know, covering the topic from all sides and all angles, but ultimately not leaving the reader confused as to how to feel.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that that comes from just, you know, my inherent knowledge in the industry at this point.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've, you know, I've been in the beauty industry for about a decade.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And God, I feel like I don't know everything, but I've seen a lot.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have like the trends just keep repeating themselves, the questions just keep repeating themselves.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: To be honest, there's very little groundbreaking innovation um in beauty.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's why I'm saying honestly, Jenna, this is why I said what I said, because you hit it right on the head.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is why we can't just have this, like, you know, it's frustrating for everybody, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you have a perspective of just clinical medicine that we're calling, you know what I mean, like our hub of information, which is very good.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's definitely a starting place, but like there are just so many different angles that we can approach beauty from, like you said.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, I think that, you know, there needs to be more space at this table, you know, for not only like, you know, from the beauty end in terms of like, you know, journalists and and editors, but also from the science end, you know, like I would love to see somebody who is maybe like, you know, um our top researcher in the field of skin cancer and they are working on, like, for example, some strain exposure, you know what I mean?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we definitely, and I've definitely had, you know, I think that's a great place to start.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: If there was an amazing study that came out, you should always speak to the leads or the authors on that study because they can tell you about maybe things that didn't get in the study that like you should still keep your eye on, or you know what I mean?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: They can always provide more information.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's also important, and we also talk to like cosmetic formulators all the time.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think they are a great resource um to talk to you about why products are the way that they are, um, and why, you know, sort of the limitations, I guess, of products as well.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also think it's important to know that everyone is an expert in their own field, and not everyone can be an expert on everything, like a general expert.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, a lot of times we see studies come out where it's like uh, you know, something might be considered, you know, dangerous in uh in a mice study, but then dermatologists are like, but that was in mice and it's fine.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: But then you're like, well, we never actually studied this in humans, so how would we know?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like there's all there's all exactly more questions, I think, than answers.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that if my job is to just boil down um the topic and leave the reader feeling like they they got all the information and they can make a call one way or the other um on how they feel about it by the time they they finish my article.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, I'm not gonna lie, as a reader, I wouldn't mind if, you know, you wrote an article with a bunch of questions in it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because honestly, that's what we have right now in skincare.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a lot of questions and it's uh everything you said, you know, it applies.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I really wouldn't even mind seeing like, you know, like a publication like Harper's Bazaar or anyone, you know, or Allure or anyone do like a piece where it's like someone like you, you know, it like an editor or a journalist is like, okay, well, here are a lot of questions that came up after my research, you know, that there are no answers to.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that in itself and the ability to say like we don't know is really like in this industry, from what I'm observing, is the next step, you know, because I think everyone wants to be like, yes, vitamin C does this.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have like 10 people that are like, no, absolutely not.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's no literature.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, well, then you know right.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is I think people are scared to say we don't know.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the answer for a lot of this is we we don't know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's a lot of like polarization happening.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I see this discussion online.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, one of my favorite topics to talk about in beauty is clean beauty.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really interesting.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's been really like co-opted, I think, by you know, the greenwashing and green marketing.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other end, we're seeing this like like harsh reaction against it.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the answer is actually somewhere in the middle and it's getting lost um in this like polarizing like argument that's happening.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I I'm a little bit uh wary of the backlash I'm seeing against Clean Beauty, where people are like, no, products are all safe, everything is safe, everything is fine for you.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, that's I don't know if if that's the answer.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the answer is a great area.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer to me is I don't really know, but I want to give you the tools um to leave that open-ended and to make that decision for yourself by giving you all of the research and and um you know the thoughts out there.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the building blocks.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I completely I think that's good journalism, that's good reporting, and that's how it should be.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know clean beauty.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't even get me started.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's like that title needs to go.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: It there's no such thing as clean beauty.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if I put aloe vera on my face and I happen to be allergic to aloe vera and I have a terrible skin reaction, what am I gonna say?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Blame the company and say you're not really clean, you know what I mean?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so there's too many, like there's too many like question marks around that title.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I and so yeah, it's very frustrating.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure, and there are a lot of things like that, you know, in this industry.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of words and titles and buzzwords, and you know, but yeah, you know, going back to our point, you know, a lot of it is we don't know, you know, and and to be able to ask those questions, I think that's where I really admire editorial and I admire um true journalism because I think when it comes to questioning things and it comes to like pushing barriers, like we have to leave it to professional writers, you know what I mean, to get that out there.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's why, like when I look at an Instagram account of some random person like reviewing a brand, I'm like, dude, I don't even know who you are.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I don't think 99% of your followers know who you are.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not even it's it's just I don't know, oversaturation, I guess.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yep, I hear you.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but I you know, I I do want to shift focus a little bit and um lighten up the conversation because I want you to give some advice to everyone listening out there.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a lot of interest, you know, um in the college community of you know, people wanting to go into editorial and especially with beauty and you know, magazines.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So any advice you have for our listeners or anyone listening out there that wants to go into this career path.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I um I do have advice.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, you know, I said this earlier, but it really to me starts with having a voice, um a perspective, and really strong writing.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you showed me writing that was really strong, but wasn't even about beauty, was about like, gosh, I don't know, the 10 best grills you need for summer.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, like something random, but the writing was really strong and you made me interested in that topic, um then I know you can write about beauty.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, um skincare, makeup, hair care is something we all touch.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that touches all of our lives.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we all wake up every day and use at least one thing that would be considered beauty.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hopefully toothpaste is the one, but you know, whatever it may be.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're all I think that an interest in beauty is great, but a voice and a perspective and and strong writing is key.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I always say, you know, turn make your Instagram public.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very annoying to me when you know, young people have it all private.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see your personality.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see um that you can, you know, create good content, um, funny captions, and um, you know, have some, you know, ability to maybe shoot photos or video, whatever it may be, because that's part of the job now as well.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um make your Instagram public, make your Twitter public.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think Twitter, a lot of young people are kind of anti-Twitter, but Twitter is an amazing place, especially in the journalism community.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can really, I don't care.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my Twitter account is nothing special.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think this morning I tweeted, like, is it fall yet?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even like it's not even anything, but I just think that it's a way for you to practice writing, practice your voice.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um it'll show me um if I was hiring somebody, it would show me that you have an interesting voice, can make funny jokes, what you're interested in, um connecting with people in the industry.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I think having any kind of writing sample, uh, at this point, I think when I first started, it was harder.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people maybe had blog spots or blogs of some kind on WordPress.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now I think it's a lot easier to just like start up a website and just host a couple of writing samples on there that you've just done yourself that didn't even need to be published anywhere else but your you know website.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that just gives me you know something to look at.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a digital portfolio.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little portfolio.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, a way for me just to get to know you because I think there's a lot of people, a lot of young kids who are really interested in beauty, but don't exactly understand the day-to-day demands of the job.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is a lot of writing and writing quickly.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what scares a lot of people about digital as well.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that scared me when I made the shift from print to digital is you know, oh my God, I'm gonna have to write.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I went from writing a feature that took me a month and a half to report and write to writing on my phone an article while standing in the middle of like a Parisian flea market during fashion week and had to publish it there without any other person reading it, no fact-checking, no research, no copy editor.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you really have to be, you know, a standalone one-woman band of content production.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's it's demanding, but it's um, and I think that a lot of times, you know, we're also seeing this really interesting overlap, which is something that I am also thinking about a lot too, is that a lot of times people can, if you have all these skills, you know, you not might not necessarily even need to be an editorial anymore to be successful.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um because of the rise of the influencer on social media.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're like a really good writer, content producer, you know, photo editor, all you can do it all.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, people are making amazing careers out of doing this on their own personal pages.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's been really interesting to see as well.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think we're seeing a shift of, you know, a lot of editors that I've worked with have left editorial recently to go do that, um, which I also think is really interesting.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the industry is shifting and the demands of what we do, uh, you know, the job is a lot more demanding these days.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um but at the end of the day, I think that um if you're just really curious, if you're a curious person and um can really write about beauty in a way that maybe makes me chuckle or um laugh because beauty can be so repetitive.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know how many lipsticks I've had to write about?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like a story with 2000.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, I cannot even imagine.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're all the same thing.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you really it's it's a it's a fun, horrible game that you have to play of how can I make this not only interesting to read, but interesting to write, because I can't do this anymore.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would much rather as a reader also read like the evolution of the red lip, you know what I mean?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And like read about history, about like, you know, of like all that rather than just like these are the 10 best red lipsticks right now.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know, but it's all a hundred percent.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I agree with you, but a lot of times like the way that the industry is shifting, it's like we need to sell red lipsticks.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's you know, people don't people don't read as much as I would like them to, I'll say that.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it has been like yeah, I know, but I hope that if they are reading, that occasionally they'll catch one of my jokes and be like, oh, that Jenna, she's silly.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I Jenna, you're so like such a ray of light, and I'm so thankful that you made the time for this.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And before we go, I really have to ask you because I'm very curious, and I know everyone out there is curious, some of your favorite skincare products right now.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you loving?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, it's such a hard question to answer because it changes all the time.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but let me just think about what is on my vanity right now.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I have, and I never know how to pronounce this correctly, but August Augustinus Bodder.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Augustine, yeah, yeah, Augustine's Butter.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's from Dr.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Butter.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have I'm obsessed with everything that they make.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I currently have the rich cream on my vanity, and I will be very sad when it runs out because it's probably my third bottle in the last couple of years, and I just ugh, I just love it so much.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have the dew skin um serum from Dewskin on my Vanity that I've been using, and I actually really like it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I find it very soothing.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I have um fresh uh the black tea eye cream um that feels like oh I love that eye cream so good.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I forgot, I haven't used it in years, and it just feels like it's really it's so moisturizing and coddling and just makes your eyes look better right away, which I appreciate.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: All of their black tea products I feel like are like that too.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had like a mask, I think.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like there was like there was a mask and it was like phenomenal.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know what I agree, no, I 100% agree.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I'm currently using Clay depot face wash, which is very fancy of me.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I do love like if I'm gonna have a fancy product, it's just there's something so glamorous about using like a Chanel face wash or something.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're always like scented and so foamy, and I don't know, they just make me feel like I'm at a spa or something.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have that in my shower currently.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um gosh, what else?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: What else?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um all the plethora of PR she's surrounded by.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I really am.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm currently I'm currently sitting, I we bought a house, and so we're out in Jersey now.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I haven't unpacked my office yet, and it's just boxes and boxes of beauty products that are just surrounding my desk.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think I think that's like the it's like everyone looks at that and it's like, oh, I want that.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like once you have it, it's like, oh my god, I need a big house, bigger house.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone wants to trade me beauty products for some furniture, uh, that would be so great.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: That would be so great if you can barter and like yeah, I need like a whole IKEA like built-in system.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone uh has one of those, I love that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone will come up come up with that and then I can interview them.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So funny.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jenna, this has been amazing.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: You are amazing.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have loved all the insight, and I would love to have you back anytime your schedule is open.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So of course.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love, you know, this is what I do.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's my passion.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm happy to talk about it anytime.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, thank you for having such a great podcast platform.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening out there, definitely go check out bazaar.com and all the amazing articles.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I I I don't need to say much about Harper's Bazaar.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, on its own.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, it stands, the name stands for itself.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, check it out and check out some of uh Jenna's articles and you know, let us know what you thought of this episode.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have any questions for me or Jenna, I'll definitely pass them along.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much for listening, and I'll be back next time.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 42:23
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• 42:28
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• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.