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From Performing to Being | The Three's Wholehearted Coaching Journey with Kendri · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when I discovered that I had mistyped myself for many years, really understanding myself in a different way through a different lens, some things really began to click into place in a way that I had not experienced.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Rightly.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like you want your kids to behave well, right?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to make good choices.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I took that and internalized it to self-reliance, work hard, strive, prove, perfect.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also very tender and exposes that softness within that we try to cover over with confidence, with assertiveness, with charisma.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: With grace comes healing, and with healing comes freedom.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it starts with the grace of God and he begins to do that healing work in us.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as that begins to develop, more freedom happens.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here we are.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're a couple weeks into the Enneagram 3 world, the drive, the image, and all the longing beneath the doing.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So today we're gonna get a little bit more maybe practical, would be the word.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I am bringing an Enneagram coach, a wholehearted coach who knows this personality type from the inside because she is a three.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Kendri is a coach at WICO Coaching, something that she has started that I'm so proud to boast and share about and celebrate.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: But she's also someone that I'm grateful to call a neighbor and a friend.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: But Kendri's story has a fun twist in it, and we'll start there because Kendri thought she was a one for years, almost a couple decades before the three became the theme.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So Kendrick, welcome.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so thrilled that you invited me.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, every month we I invite one of my wholehearted coaches to unpack the victim villain hero guide story arc, not only from their personality type, but also in their experience of working with others through this.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But before we dive into that story arc, how about you?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what did it feel like?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: What was that experience like where wait a minute, I'm not a one, I think I'm a three.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, it was pretty disorienting.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had lived with that, I don't want to call it a label necessary, necessarily, but just like understanding of myself for a long time.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And many things about the one feel very comfortable for me, the inner critic, the want to get it right, noticing how things could be better.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Those all really deeply resonate with me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: But when I discovered that I had mistyped myself for many years, really understanding myself in a different way and through a different lens, some things really began to click into place in a way that I had not experienced before.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was disorienting, but also in some ways, like, oh, you know, a little bit just like that exhale.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when you found out that you were a three, had you started noticing things that weren't fitting a one?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Where was the maybe the push to investigate a little bit more?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is on the surface, it's easy enough to just go with what you know, especially if it's been 18 years.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was quite a significant period of time.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I am somebody who loves new ideas and new insights.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So while I am a person of pretty strong convictions, I'm also willing for my assumptions to be challenged in a lot of ways.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was from another coach who she's an eight.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes she says things very directly.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she always says things very directly, but sometimes she just blurts things out without necessarily thinking it through.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think she would be, she would apologize at all for this conversation, nor would I do, because it was so helpful to me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But we were um we were having a conversation, and I had told her my top five or top 10 Clifton strengths, my Enneagram type, just a little bit about myself.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And she was just kind of interviewing me, and she's like, So, you know, as an Enneagram won, you like have this deep desire to be good.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I mean, I'm a Christian, I want to be a good person, but that's not like front and center for me.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, You're not a one.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was that direct.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I don't know what you are, but you are not a one.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, really?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, are you open to considering that you might be a different Enneagram type?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, I'm open to considering anything at this point.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so she began kind of asking more questions.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And her initial thought was that I might be a seven or a five.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm for sure not a five.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of heady strengths in my strengths finder, but and I like to think deeply, but that's more my four-wing than it is anything related to like the observation piece of the five.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be competent, but not in that way.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's a three thing as well, right?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: The competency rings true for a few of the types.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course I reached out to you and I was like, Amy, what do I do with this information?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because we were friends.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I scheduled a session with you, and we had to go through quite a bit of like, what about this?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: What about that?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was not an easy land after that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a try-on session.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love to just share this concept anytime I can because I want the typing process to not feel pressured or that we're trying to fit you into some kind of specific size hole, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like there is such a uniqueness to it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is going to the store with a stylist and the stylist who maybe has some different thoughts or approaches and perspectives, going, hey, how about try this on?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And in that, trying on things maybe you didn't ever think you would have tried on before, would ever considered or think would fit, and going, oh, actually this aspect does and this aspect doesn't.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say, when you took the assessment that I have created online, the four was what came up as tops, which for me, I felt like while I experienced some of the four-ness element, I had experienced you more as an assertive type.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, that that helped orient the conversation.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And in time, especially spending the last over a year together, I've really gotten to see the three shine, the character traits are wow, front and center.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that four piece is super fun and definitely shades in such a beautiful way.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was there one or two things off the top of your head that you remember thinking, oh, the three way better catches or explains or narrates what's really been going on here in a way the one never could properly explain?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are a couple things that are just really obvious once you are looking through a different lens.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say one of those is kind of some of the confusion was around like, I want to do a really good job and I want to get it right.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of sounds like a one.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the motivation piece, I have a high need for significance.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to prove that I belong here or that I deserve to be in this room or you know, whatever, yeah, versus just wanting to be black and white thinking and have the right or wrong, like that kind of piece.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that was much more resonant for me.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started realizing the background noise of you're such a failure through my whole, as far back as I can remember, that really was the kind of the linchpin of saying, okay, that is very much three.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is so true.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that narrative right there just makes my heart sink because we can reason in a way, we know all the cliche, cute sayings out there around that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if that is a driving push or lie or story and framework, even that we're living into or is pushing us into everything, that creates so much exhaustion, especially for three.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So exhausting.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I just never realized that wasn't everybody's background noise.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is why Enneagram is helpful.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not the only thing, not the whole thing.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the label is just the orientation, the starting point, and being able to have language around that background noise, the low hum that has been there for a lot of decades.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's a big deal.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: When we talk about victim villain hero guide, I always like to give a moment where a friend who's listening, maybe to the first time because they know you, Kendry, or they're a three and they finally are going, Oh, I'm gonna take a moment, listen to a podcast just for me.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because you threes are busy usually producing your own thing.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard to stop and enjoy something for you.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I did a series, Victim Villain, Hero Guide, sometimes sidekick, back in February of 2026.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you can always go back there and listen.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I do really hard to try to remember to link it in the show notes.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: But we talked through these different characters and roles that we've played and also who are in our story.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But for today, we're gonna unpack how it looks to play those roles as an Enneagram 3, what that might look like, the story behind the story, maybe the lies, all the different elements.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: But with the victim, it's important for me to start the conversation here is that there are two elements about the victim role.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: One is we are all victims of things on this side of heaven between Edens that are hard and not as God intended, not what he desired when he set us up and created us, not what he wanted for the human race.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But here we are.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have things that have been done to us that might be harmful, uh, definitely because of sin.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so we need to take time to acknowledge those wounds.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then we might get to the point if we don't acknowledge those wounds and we're not caring for ourselves, that we slip into a victim mentality.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And these two elements are important to not only delineate here, but also be processing in our unique story to see how that is showing up in our life.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, in particular, really from this false story, even that belief that you have to earn your worth or that your failure, the constant take or tape, failure, failure, failure.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like from the inside?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then as a coach, what might it look like from the outside?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it showed up for me fairly early on.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of those things where with the best of intentions, with the most loving heart, you can see where the things you receive from your parents get interpreted through a lens that is gonna give you a story.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's what we're talking about here.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So my parents are first generation Christians, they both had kind of nominally nominal faith in their families of origin, but they did were not followers of Jesus until I was about three.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so they had to learn and reorient like what does it mean to have Christian values in our home?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And pretty quickly, my dad was called into full-time ministry, and so he went to seminary in his 30s.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so you know, I was five, my sister was two.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that environment, they were doing the best they could to instill Jesus in us, but they didn't really have any role models from their growing up experience.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm realizing this much later in adulthood that the message that I was receiving was measure up.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not because they spoke those words to me, but because they were trying their best to create this beautiful, different path for our family.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so there were more, especially early on, outward markers of holiness and faith.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know that I would go back and and have them do it differently necessarily, but as a firstborn daughter of a firstborn daughter, I just innately have kind of those tendencies to be a good role model and also very high expectations at home.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a big piece of that shaping of like perform for approval, perform for approval.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: You get a lot of and very rightly like you want your kids to behave well, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to make good choices for sure.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I I took that and internalized it to self-reliance, work hard, strive, prove, perfect, those kinds of things.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's always so amazing how it is truly our lens that interprets the experiences, so unique to us.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that based on the message our heart longs to hear, core desires, fears, longings, all of that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sure as you've processed your story and your experience of your parents finding faith and figuring out what does it look like to live in relationship with Christ, your sister has a totally different experience based on her lens, which I think is always, you know, just a helpful way, even if you can, if you're interpreting your story, if you have siblings, to kind of process and go, hey, how did you experience that?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And in it from a place of curiosity, not judgment or that it should have been a certain way, but it can be helpful as we unpack our own story.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that is good.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how about what if you've seen from the outside, those that you've maybe even just begun the journey with, but you've seen from that Enneagram 3 perspective where they even get stuck in the false story?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think what's been so heartbreaking to some extent, and also I have such deep compassion because I experienced this as well, is just the fear of vulnerability that I see pretty regularly.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And for a couple of reasons.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: For one, it is terribly inefficient, and we got stuff to get done.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so great.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also very tender and exposes that softness within that we try to cover over with confidence, with assertiveness, with charisma, with like being who we you need me to be, so you will like me.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that can just end up being such a mask.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um people a little bit at an arm's length because we don't want to see that brokenness.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you even frame that because that fear of vulnerability might be experienced from an eight perspective as well, but two very different underlying reasons, which is the fear of being betrayed for an eight, harmed, controlled, but for the three, exposed, found out, inefficient, ineffective, all those are two different stories that we tell ourselves, but related to a similar word.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that's I love that you use the just that you use that phrase.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was perfect because then we're stepping into the villain role.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now we do have those who have harmed us in our story, sometimes intentionally, most of the time, very unintentionally.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we think about our parents.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: They did the best they could with what they had.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we can tend to blame others, but that's the victim mentality.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Over time, though, if we don't tend to the broken parts of our story and give God those pieces so he can mend and tend and bring us to a place of wholeheartedness, not because of efforts.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: We end up doing harm to ourselves and others in a way that a villain would.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that can really complicate relationships with people, a lot of times the environments that we're in, our work performance.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So give us some insight.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us some of your story and how that's played out, which that's asking some vulnerability here.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't take that ask lightly, except for I know you've had a little time to prepare and pray.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: It did.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I am hopeful that me expressing some vulnerability gives other people permission to do the same because I think it is such a beautiful gift to someone when you experience their vulnerability and you can go, oh my gosh, me too.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: That has been one of my favorite experiences.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I often experience vulnerability hangover, but at the end of the day, it is worth it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: To speak into that, I would say one of the things I didn't know for a long time is that my need to present a beautiful, perfected, successful persona made other people feel like they weren't enough when they were around me.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Inside, I'm feeling inferior, not enough.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't measure up to any of these other people.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: But how that has been received, I've been told in the past, is that either I I think I'm too good for someone, I'm like, oh heavens.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would never want to express that, but you know, some people receive that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or just like, I can't measure up to your standards.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: And one time a coach told me when your inner self-talk is very loud and critical, which is again one of those Enneagram one things that I really relate to, but when the inner critic is really loud, everyone around you feels like they're not enough.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was that just was like a trigger in my heart.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I never want other people to feel that way.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's tough.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: One, I I applaud those who have been willing to be honest and express what some of that feeling that they have received and allow that opportunity for you to just even process.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: What does that what does that look like then to show up in greater freedom and the fullness of my worth without apologizing or dismissing the beauty I have to offer in this moment while also coming in with so much grace that people are receiving that and experiencing that?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does it look like to help a three move past shame or the blame without dismissing the pain of it that maybe have happened has happened through or the wounds and hopes that they experience the wholeness and freedom I think we all long for.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm really passionate about freedom because it has been so much of a journey for me.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to see other people walking in freedom as well.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a process, it's not a one and done, it's not a oh, I'm now free.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, as wonderful as that would be, that will be a heaven experience as well.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think freedom for the three looks like maybe this is for every type, but truly relaxing into the presence of God.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: That phrase to me is so near and dear to my heart, and I don't know it very well.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: But when I can remember That the belovedness of God is specifically for me.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: God doesn't just love me in a general sense, like he loves all the world, and I am in the world and I am a person.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So surely God loves me, but that he clearly and specifically designed all the intricate parts of what I was going to experience, what my heart longs to hear, the fears that I was going to deal with, the obstacles that were going to be in my path, all of those things, knowing my tendency to perform for approval.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that piece of it is the twisted part of it, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how God wants us to relate to him.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But he knew I would struggle with it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And he knew that I would need extra experiences and reminders of my specific belovedness that has nothing to do with what I have accomplished.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, beautifully said, which is it, this is great.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It sets us up for what does it look like?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And this is my favorite part of the story to wake up to the truth the moment that growth begins to happen.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And because something shifts, realizing and receiving the belovedness, the hero moment, like you said, isn't just one and done.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about the same idea, concept with the guide.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And all the ultimate hero is Jesus Christ.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And because of his great heroic act for us on the cross, we can have a hero moment again and again.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's that moment where it's no longer depending on yourself, right?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or depending on the output or putting all the hope in the matric or the outcome.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: So give us one of those stories where it began to shift and you realized, oh, I'm doing this differently in a way that is continuing to create growth from the freedom.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: One of those moments happened, it must have been 10 or 15 years ago.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have to look up the date of when the shack was published.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's an oldie but gitty.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a kind of I think it was 15 years ago because, or 16 even because I was pregnant with my youngest.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that gives good content.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember reading that book, and there may be some things that I would take issue with theologically, but the story got past my know-it-all tendencies.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't like to admit that I tend to be a know-it-all.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't feel great to admit, but I'm definitely that person.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I do, I love knowing things, I love learning things.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have a lot of Bible knowledge and I have a lot of theological knowledge.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what my college degree is in.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that being said, I'm super grateful for that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I love all of that stuff, but it kind of snuck past my defenses.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the phrase in the book that is used towards Mac is, I'm especially fond of you.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's such a tender word.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't do it very often.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a an acquaintance who every year on for everybody's birthday on on Facebook, he'll say, Happy birthday.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: God is especially fond of Amy, or you know, whoever it is.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so that was really impactful for me.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: See God in a different light, the way the Holy Spirit is portrayed, the idea of the garden and what God is developing in us that needs to take root.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could go on and on about just things that really got deep into my heart that I had to start continuing to live out.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that was a sparking point for me.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love this.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that ties in right to the beloved message that you had talked about before because it is a word used.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I put it in the subtitle of my new book.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about it frequently.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have a tattoo in my wrist that I talked about at the summit this year.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a word used a lot, but what does that really mean for us uniquely?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you pinpointed that for some people, using that term fond.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I am fond of you.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is beautifully profound.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when we can receive that, right, and that's typically that missing piece.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: We, especially as responsible firstborn pastor kid women, we jump from love to guide others or love others or serve Him or do the right thing.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that receiving piece, that truly receiving our belovedness, believing that He is fond of us, that is the agent of change where we we move.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: We might be doing all the right things, but we we shift to the receiving and the beloved belovedness and where it's coming out of the overflow instead of the exhausting.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Keep trying harder and doing better.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Try harder is not always the wrong thing, but it is an overused tool in my toolbox.
• 27:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you're familiar with picking up and offering to others, even and using again and again, but it gets worn out fast.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So time for different tools, which I think you've even alluded to it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: The the competency of the three, the storehouse of knowledge, the excellence.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have found again and again, a lot of the coaches in my life tend to be threes because they are doing things in such a way where it's big, it's remarkable, it's done with excellence.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm pretty sure they did it faster than I did or a lot more laser focused.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So these are all compliments to a three.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they make a great coach or a boss and someone who is, when they're healthy, championing others to go along with them.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, what has it been like for you to let God shift some of what you are really great at and to be coming from a place of a guide rather than an evaluator or even a taskmaster?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because at some point we that's being done internally.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's easily comes out externally.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: One of my little uh it sometimes comes out externally as well.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: But is well if you would just then if you would just do it this way, then you would be getting the result that you want, you know, in a bit of an exasperated tone.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or this could be with my kids or in many different settings, but certainly it comes out a little more strongly at home.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I would say that God is continuing to teach me that to pause and listen to the person, of course, whether it's a client or somebody I'm just having a conversation with and caring for, to listen, of course.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also listening for what the Holy Spirit is speaking to me for that person.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't get it right 100% of the time.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody does.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: No one does, yep.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: All being human.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hold that loosely.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think God is saying this to you, to me for you.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: I could be wrong, but this is what I'm hearing or whatever.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe that has been such a journey of releasing my need to get it right and to be useful.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want so badly to be useful.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's probably the two-wing, but you know, I I want to give people the benefit of my experience and save them from making mistakes that I've already made.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this shows up quite a bit in parenting.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: As I'm sure that's never been case for you.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: But oh, never at all.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Said some very sarcastically.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let the hearer understand.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been so that's also produced a lot of freedom in my relationships, too.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's I and I think I've seen you in action.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're an excellent guide.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And probably the slowing for all of us assertive types is the first step.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what it looks like to step into that guide role.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Slowing to also check, are we bringing in a victim mindset in this conversation?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have we had a hero moment here?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are we intending, is there any part of us that would accidentally inflict harm in this situation, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Going through pausing and going through the roles and what is ours to answer here?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where how do we show up in this moment?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested to hear for you just a few more details because as the guide, we keep doing work.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've said that again and again, but I think it's important.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's a promise I ask my wholehearted coaches to commit to after they've spent a year going through the promise.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're going to continue to use the material and showcase themselves as a wholehearted coach, I want them to continue doing the work and saying yes to the work.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that talks about uh taking that time to be seen by God and pausing performance.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting in the word of God regularly.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: So scripture is what's narrating the story and not the lies.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: But so tell me what it's looked like in practice to really walk that out in prayer, community, daily, daily life for God to be enough and his delight to orient your next steps and what kind of energy you put forth.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many thoughts around that.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know you do.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I have I have lots of lots of things in place that I feel like help me to stay grounded and continuing to experience healing and freedom.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that sounds like lots of things.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: But in in particular, I have a really wonderful therapist that I see relatively regularly who will reorient my default narrative and ask me really good questions.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I also have a small group of three other women entrepreneurs who I literally can say anything to and be my most vulnerable self with.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about our insecurities and we talk about where we feel like God is challenging us.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: We can challenge one another, and they are really good at truth telling in such a beautiful way.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that has been absolutely priceless to me in just such a small setting of this is not for the world, but this is for me to say, I don't know what I'm doing, or God is asking this of me and I don't know how to do it, or those kinds of things.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been truly life-giving.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that is beautiful.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And help, I'd like to preface or or address that this isn't prescriptive.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: This is uh suggestive.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: And this is how what Kendry has put in place in just growing and continuing her wholehearted journey, even as a guide.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to hear as well for maybe the Enneagram 3 woman who maybe she doesn't have uh those things in place quite yet, or she's been thinking about coaching or therapy or a small group or some of these things that you hinted at.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot, there's a lot that um we can all put into practice or engage in that keeps us in this place of receiving belovedness and continuing to work through our hero moments and offering guidance to those that the Lord puts in our life.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: But what is something that maybe a three could begin to interrupt some of the performance behaviors so she can really receive the truth of how the Lord is fond of her?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think everyone is so different, even within any given Enneagram type.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: I often say, you know, there are nine Enneagram types, and then of course you bring in all the subtypes and all of that.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: But there are nine Enneagram types, but there are eight billion ways that those show up in the world because there are eight billion people.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's right.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: People are identical.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love about knowing other people who share your Enneagram type is it gives you so much, so much of a sense of common language, some common experiences, those sorts of things.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it can be really challenging for threes in friendship and in really authentically showing up as themselves.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you don't have that right now, that is not because there's something wrong with you.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let me speak that so clearly.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is not because there's something wrong with you or people don't want to know you.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is because it can be such adult friendship, let's just be honest, could be hard.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: No matter who you are.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it does take time and effort.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I would encourage my fellow Enneagram3s to ask the Lord for some of those people in their lives and maybe ask some trusted people if there is somebody that might coach or mentor them, or that they could give some suggestions.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think too, a lot of times just finding some of those resources.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: People are the best.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're struggling, finding some of those resources that are going to speak to your heart and your lens.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would be remiss if I did not mention my actual very favorite book.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this was another turning point for me about three years ago.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Living Fearless.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know you know this one.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is about exchanging the lies of the enemy for the truth of God's identity about you and not just his general identity that we all share with what he specifically calls you.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be a starting place for some people as well.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that resource is written by Jamie Winship, and he and his wife do a lot of different speaking engagements.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: If I remember, I'll put it in the show notes.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, we've given you enough information for Google to find what you're needing.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, uh, that is so good, Kendrick.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, two things.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to have a moment to brag.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is, I didn't preface this, but brag about what makes you a great guide as a three.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: What about your giftings, your experience, your point of view that people will really benefit from getting to work with you?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then any last thing that you didn't get to say yet, because I know you have a lot to share.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm giving you a little window of time to share it in.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So those two things here as we wrap up.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so kind of you.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, it's so easy to think of all of our insufficiencies, but um, you know, one of the things that I feel like I really bring to the table is I have really good discernment.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I may struggle to see my own blind spots because that's why they're called blind spots.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am so God has gifted me to be able to go, oh, okay, there's the message, there's the false narrative, there's the false identity coming in.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go there.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And to I see potential in all people, uh, which has a you know bit of a double-edged sword there.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I am always going to see what's beautiful about you and the potential that you have to reflect God's character and to live out your purpose.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just have such deep optimism that God can do anything and that he can heal any story and that he has beautiful freedom for every single person.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that positivity, as well as just a lot of deep learning and thinking, really brings a lot of diversity to the conversation.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I love to just I like to connect the dots.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I think that is one of the things that coaches are are good at doing, helping to see the things that you can't see from inside.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's just no way we can.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think in every season we need a coach, maybe for different facets of our lives or focuses, but there's always there, there's just gaps that we have and things that we cannot see ourselves.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's good.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I you do a beautiful job of coaching.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've been a business owner for over 20 years.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is not new to you, the coaching environment.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: You and now you have another tool among many in your tool belt using Enneagram and your own work.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Again, as we wrap up here, is there anything specific that you would want our friend listening today to carry with her from this conversation?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I have one last thing that I would love to share.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I believe God gave me a couple of years ago now, and I just keep carrying it with me into all the different things that I'm that I'm doing.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is with grace comes healing, and with healing comes freedom.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it starts with the grace of God and he begins to do that healing work in us.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as that begins to develop, more freedom happens, and then freedom and growth are really linked.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things about growth is it's the opposite of what the enemy wants to do.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Lord has given me this beautiful picture of undoing the work of the enemy.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And not me doing it, clearly, the Holy Spirit doing it, but being a conduit to undo the work of the enemy in the lives of the people that I get to um speak into.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I could not be more grateful.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a beautiful thing to watch.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Kendry.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing some of your story and helping us just get a better glimpse of what these roles could look like in our life.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like you said, there's eight billion different ways that these Enneagram types show up, but maybe you heard some snippets that felt familiar or similar and threads that you're going, oh, that is sort of like this type, but she's defining it as a three and it's hitting uniquely in this moment.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I just pray.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would, I would say to those who are listening, my friend who's listening, just pay attention.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let that sit there for a little bit, explore, practice curiosity around it and see what the Lord might say or what other stories come to mind to help you unpack it.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Kendrick, for sharing vulnerably, for coming authentically and giving us a beautiful representation of what it looks like to do the work.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuff point.