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Let's Talk: Charity With Bryson · The Wesley Word

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, we're starting this episode with another cold open.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: This time I'm with Bryson after we've recorded this episode talking about mission work and charity and our own personal experiences.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Before you dive into this episode, we wanted to let y'all know that this conversation is just us sharing our own experiences and our own opinions.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: We are not by any means experts, but this is a topic that is near and dear to both of our hearts and something that we have personal experience with.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we wanted to come on here and have this conversation today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: These are also not the official Wesley opinions or stances.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we are just speaking from our own hearts and our own opinions.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: We are simply just adding another perspective to what can sometimes be a pretty one-sided discussion.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we hope this episode can add to the narrative and be something that you can learn from.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wesley Word.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to be the second guest on Let's Talk, Lauren.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, let's there's been much deliberation.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just let's just let's talk.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be taken over next year by someone else.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Possibly.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you're interested, hit me up.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Consider this my application.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So as Lauren said, I'm Bryson.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a junior food science and human nutrition major.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I plan to go to PA school after I graduate.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be applying this summer.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Super crazy.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I will be graduating next December, though, but I'll be sticking around for all of next year.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Very excited about that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I love to run and I live into my major.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I love to cook and try new recipes and stuff like that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I have been in Wesley for a very long time.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: If y'all don't know, I have an older brother and an older sister.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: My brother is six years older than me, so I have been around Wesley since he was in college, which was about eight years ago.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty hefty amount of time.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: You I feel like I heard from older students that they knew who you were, like from the time that you were in middle school, just because you were in and out all the time.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Bailey, I met Bailey when he was actually still in high school.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he says that I have changed a lot.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: She he said that I used to be like a I don't know what word he used.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to ask Bailey how he's seen me grow into the person I am.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as if you're as if you're supposed to be the same person you were when you were in high school.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Come on.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh on the previous episode we both gave some fun facts about ourselves.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything you've gave that you like to run, and that's super cool.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you have not, um to anyone who's listening, I highly recommend that you follow Bryson's running Instagram.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan, even though I am not a fan of running.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, your content is very great.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's also a food Instagram.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's right.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, all of the above.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Big fan.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um anything interesting?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any party tricks?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Any random quirks?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I am very good at hula hooping.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was in elementary school, I was recruited by the church whenever we had like some type of fundraising talent show.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I we had this what we called the Valentine's Dinner, and so it was seniors in our senior citizens in our church had a nice sit-down dinner, and they had a talent show in the middle.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, most people sang or played the piano.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, they put 10-year-old Bryson up on stage hula hoopin', and I was referred to the as the hula hoop girl for a solid like five years after that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And people kept asking when I was gonna come back.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, what a talent, what a story.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: That should put on like put that on your resume.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's hula hooping is like I could do it as a kid, but now that's so Can you still hula hoop?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, I'm impressed.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I can.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do a lot of tricks.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I still can do all the tricks.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also like a hula hoop connoisseur as a result.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want the hula hoop with the beats in it.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I need water in my hula hoop.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I that like took me back.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I had a I had one with water in it and I could like hear it sloshing around as he told that story.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's so funny.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So now that Bryson has introduced herself to us and we've learned a bit more about her, I feel like I've learned so much about Bryson in the last two minutes that I did not know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I already knew her pretty well.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's super cool.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget the hula hoop thing.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: You've your perception of my perception of you has uh been changed forever.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you're uh thank you for that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive into the topic of this episode, we kind of want to touch on why we're talking about this in particular.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive in, I want to say a couple things that um, you know, we recognize that the issue of mission work and charity is something that is at the forefront of most Christians' minds, especially at the age we're at now.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being in college, a lot of us are going on mission trips.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: We do it a lot in high school.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wesley goes on plenty of mission trips, other campus ministries do as well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big thing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: We are at a young age where we have the ability to go and travel and help people.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're in good physical shape.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, construction work, mission trips, and things like that happen a lot at this age.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we hear a lot, we hear about that a lot, but something that isn't necessarily talked about too much is um the potential uh negative consequences and other opinions and perspectives that aren't necessarily heard about in these conversations that happen in church.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we recognize that this is not an issue that is necessarily talked about too much.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if you as the listener are not familiar, it might not be something that you've ever considered.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's okay.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this can be totally unfamiliar to you, and that's fine.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: We're just here to have a conversation between friends.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're not speaking on behalf of any, we're not here to speak on behalf of Wesley or anything like that.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're just having a little chat, sharing our own perspectives and our own stories.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: We're not condemning mission work as a whole at all, or we're not, we are definitely not writing it all off as wrong.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: But we just want to provide that other perspective and encourage, you know, some critical thinking when it comes to the charity that we do as Christians and the impact that it has on people.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's very clear from the conversations that I've had with other people in Wesley in particular.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have so many people here that are very passionate about mission work and serving others.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a wonderful, wonderful thing.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: We are not at all trying to disparage you for that.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: But we as Christians and as people in general should be able to reflect and analyze the things that we're passionate about, especially when it comes to how they affect other people.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we should be able to analyze the work that we do and whether or not it has the positive impact on people that we're hoping that it has.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: If we want to live into our call as Christians, we need to be able to have that reflection.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that is all that we are here to do, provide another perspective that you might you might not be familiar with.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: So don't uh don't worry if this is new to you.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: So now that uh we've talked a little bit about no, that's not a good segue, but after you're after you're definitely, I'll say something.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta think about my question.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't type out a question.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'm at the bullet says direct question at Bryson about why she's passionate.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a reason that this conversation is being had.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking about how that's gonna transition from you're saying definitely.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm walking this back.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: You cut off it definitely.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a reason that this episode is with Bryson Parler.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you, Bryson, if you could share a little bit about why you are so passionate and interested in charity work, especially in how we do it as Christians.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to share a little bit more about that.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so as Lauren mentioned, I think a lot of people have not thought about the perspective that I hold.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's a perspective that is continuing to change and is definitely malleable.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I recently read a book called Toxic Charities, How Churches and Charities Hurt Those They Help.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And before I even read this book, I had a feeling that the things that I felt were good and the missions and charities that I was encouraged to be a part of may not have had the impact that I thought they would.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I always had that inkling, and that inkling continued to grow as I went throughout high school and then transitioning to college.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It grew even stronger, and then reading this book, it definitely put words to feelings that I had had, and it made interesting points and had interesting anecdotes that I would like to share with you all.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for sharing.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate that perspective, and I'm really excited for what you have to share from this book that you've read and your other experiences.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think you um have done a lot of really interesting mission work and you have a lot of uh perspective to share on that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Something you said about the trips and things that you were encouraged to participate in when you were younger, that was a really interesting point because when you know, when you grow up in a church, grow up in a youth group, they encourage you to do these things and sign up on all these mission trips and other charity events, and you do them because your friends are and the your leadership is encouraging you to do it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there's not much room to think about why or think about the effects it'll have beyond what they tell you.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes the leaders don't really fully know the impact depending on what the event is.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's not really anyone's fault for not understanding, and it's not um, you know, it's okay that you only began to question it sort of after the fact or as you got older, as you gained the ability to think more quickly about it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's, you know, if you don't have those resources, that's just kind of how it ends up happening.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think also that the type of charity and mission work that we know now has not been a l around for that long.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we really did not know the effects and the toxic quote unquote effects of charity and mission work until just a few decades ago.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because the type of mission and charity work that we do now is very different than it used to be.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good point.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So before we go further, I want to give a little disclaimer to just let people know where I'm coming from and where I'm at.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote this out so that I could say it as eloquently as possible.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I hope to make apparent throughout the podcast, I am not at all condemning the people who do charitable work.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not critiquing the rightly motivated reasons that you do charitable work.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I rather want to discuss the unintended consequences that happen as a result of unexamined charitable work.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Know that I personally have participated in mission trips and charity both domestically and internationally.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I may talk about organizations that you have been a part of.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these are organizations that I have been a part of, and I don't regret that.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Know that my critiques are not calling out the organization or you that participate in them.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just bringing up points that you may not have considered.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to provide a new perspective for you moving forward.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, if at any point you're like, Bryson, you are ticking me off.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hear this.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: By all means, please pause it, come back to it later, or just never come back to it.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to stay pals after this podcast.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And lastly, I want everyone to know that if you have participated in charity, that I think you're an amazing person and you have an amazing heart for wanting to serve others.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for sharing.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, Bryson, my question for you is in your experience, why do why do people in general participate in charity?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: What is the motivator?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that for the most part, people participate in charity for good reasons.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I said earlier that the reasons for participating in charity are rightfully motivated most of the time.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: The book says this quote that I think is really beautiful.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It says the desire being to participate in charity echoes the imprint of the Creator on our lives.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's part of the way that God made us.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And do you have any examples from scripture that you think illustrate this point?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in Acts three, verses one through eleven, it talks about a lame beggar who asked Peter and John for money.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Peter and John could have given this beggar what they were asking for money, but instead they gave something better.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: They healed this man.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Helping others is important, but it's really important to help them into a space where they're self-sufficient and empowered.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: They could have given this lame beggar money, but instead they healed him so that he could go out.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I see I see the point.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really interesting how many examples of healing there are in scripture and how we gloss over it as like, look at this, they um they heal people.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Look at this miraculous occurrence, but it's also um almost empowering for these people.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the people who receive this healing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's a story in Mark.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: I you and I were discussing it earlier a little bit with the blind beggar that Jesus heals.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have the scripture in front of me at the moment, so I'm paraphrasing, but he asks Jesus, like he sees Jesus passing, and he says, like, Lord, heal me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then people around him tell him to be quiet.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then he asks again, even louder, like, please help me.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus says to him, like, your faith has made you well and heals him.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the important part is he in that story asks Jesus for help.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: He has the agency.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: He is the one declaring his own need and asking for that specific help directly.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus recognizes the man's faith and like he sees them as actions that he has taken to improve his own well-being, or at least that's how, that's how I read it, as like Jesus commends his faith as a way of him, you know, again taking agency in his own life and recognizing his own need.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And not only that, but of course recognizing, you know, Jesus as Lord.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the important part as well.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: But taking um, you know, being independent and making his own call for the for the help that he needed is also very important there.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I will also go into further it's important to make sure that you are meeting the needs of the people you're serving.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so by that that blind man asking for healing, he was making his needs known.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't that Jesus was going out here healing people that don't didn't want to be healed.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, that would be amazing, but this person was asking for healing and and Jesus fulfilled that need.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which is, I think, what we are ultimately called to do as Christians.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very easy to be taught stories like this and not read them critically.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you and again, that's no one's fault.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: We sort of talked about that earlier.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in an environment where you are not given the tools to think critically about the scripture you're consuming or the experiences that you're taught about, you're not going to be able to read it in another light.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: You're only going to interpret it in the way that you were taught to interpret it.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not going to, you know, it's very easy to misconstrue, misconstrue scripture in a way to, you know, intentionally or unintentionally fit your own belief or ideal or interpretation about the world.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if you aren't given the tools to make your own decisions about scripture, it's very easy to miss an important lesson.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a very important lesson in these stories is that these people are asking for help.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Another scripture that I think is probably I won't say never, but is rarely interpreted in the light of charity is the verse from Micah, Micah 6, 8, seek justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So justice and mercy are married to one another.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Justice without mercy is cold and impersonal, but mercy without justice can lead to dependency and entitlement.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and mercy with justice is providing aid with a future plan.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're you're proving justice when you have plans to continue and empower this community.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost unjust to give aid and then completely walk away.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's it's taking steps towards development.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's having an emotional response, but also an engaged mind.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's having this emotional mercy, which comes from the heart, but also having this justice that takes a certain amount of intellectual engagement.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that I think sort of ties into the concept of loving your neighbor, the golden rule that we are taught, you know, like we want to be treated with justice and mercy simultaneously, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: The golden rule.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Think about it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's loving your neighbor as yourself.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: But how would you feel if people were constantly doing things for you rather than helping you do things for yourself?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't feel good to be constantly dependent upon others.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, God calls us to be in community with one another and support one another, but we should lift people out of poverty and out of these situations that require them to need ministry and charity.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: We should be lifting them out of that rather than supporting them in it.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So throughout that conversation about scripture and the stories in the Bible that demonstrate how to act charitably, Bryson, you have sort of mentioned uh you've touched on some stories that you have of your own mission experience and how you have seen these things that you're talking about.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have, you know, a particularly formative experience that began to shape your perspective on this?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about charity and the things that I've been a part of, the majority of it has been home improvement.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And believe it or not, I am not a carpenter.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So thinking about that um makes me kind of uncomfortable.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what what led me to feel like I had the skills to really help and support someone in this, in this way?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I took part in some home improvement, just weekend projects.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And week-long projects as a part of my church at home, as well as I participate in Sawkahashi, which a lot of y'all may be familiar with and may have participated with.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I also went on a about a 10-day trip to Bolivia.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Bolivia is in South America to do a medical mission trip.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really where I began to question the way in which the mission work I had done was affecting those that I was serving.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So my mission trip to Bolivia, I saw things that I thought were really positive and also things that I questioned and wondered if we were doing correctly.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I could not tell you what the bill to go to Bolivia was, but I wonder if the money could have been used to provide more care to more people.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: The trip was looking back, a medical screening trip.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: There was a patient that we had that had a heart issue.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so once we came back to the States, we met with our church and we decided that this was a person that we wanted to support and to send to the capital of Bolivia to have that surgery.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I also wonder if that medical screening could not have been done by someone that was local, or maybe we could have sent fewer people to do that.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you have raised all that money and you have the funds to send people, you know, maybe the money could go to like people in Bolivia?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is that like what you're talking about?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I am going on a medical mission trip this summer, and I'm hoping it will be slightly different.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: It from my understanding is an organization that partners with providers in that country.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if we had providers from America that went to Bolivia and said, hey, you know, this is how you listen to someone's heart.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is, you know, the range, this is the pulse you take, this type of stuff, then we could have spent more money on medications.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I felt really awkward when I was giving patients a seven-day prescription of vitamins.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, uh I'm I'm a nutrition major now.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know that if you have vitamin deficiency, you are not gonna fix it in seven days.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's that must be odd to be literally on the trip and then realize is this actually helping this person in the long term at all?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was very weird.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It I felt like a fraud, honestly, being on the trip and then coming back because people were like, oh my gosh, Bryson, you're so awesome.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you went to Blimbia, you went on this medical mission trip.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, well, I don't I don't feel great about it.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that must be really hard.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And in the church, you know, I can't fault anyone for this because we as Christians are taught to encourage each other in serving others and hold each other accountable.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And rightfully so.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: We should be uplifting each other in that way and encouraging each other to help our neighbor, love our neighbor.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't feel like you did that and people were still uplifting you in that way, oh, that must have been hard.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you sharing that perspective about Bolivia and traveling abroad to do mission work because you know, I haven't shared much about my mission experience yet, my charity work, but I've never traveled abroad.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've done plenty of mission trips in the United States and done, like you mentioned earlier, I've done construction work and I've done city, like inner city-based mission work as well, but I've never traveled abroad.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, that perspective that you shared, and also the stories in the book that you're about to share as well, they don't happen in the United States, but you know, the the lessons and what Bryson will say about them can be applied to both domestic mission trips and ones happening internationally.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, whatever mission experience you may have as a listener, if you're wondering what lessons you can glean from it, what we say here can be applied pretty broadly, I think.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: The lessons to be learned apply to most scenarios, I would say.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that trip to Bolivia, is that what inspired you to do more research?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the way you were feeling afterward, interacting with people, thinking about the work you had done and reflecting on that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what made you want to look into this?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not at first.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Coming back from Bolivia, it was hard to process that maybe the 14-day trip that I had just gone on was not the best thing for that community.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I went on this trip after my senior year in high school.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I came to Clemson in the fall, and that distance from the trip, but also from the people that were congratulating me for the trip that I had just gone on, gave me the ability to begin to research and question what I was doing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I began to read blogs and watch YouTube videos.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if y'all are familiar with Hiram, Skincare by Hiram, but I became TikTok.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, what guy?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I discovered him, I think on YouTube when in March of 2020, I watched all his videos.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to him for my skincare routine now.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're glowing.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Hiram.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Hiram also, beyond getting me an incredible skincare routine, continue to encourage me in this journey of kind of deconstructing what I knew about charity.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: He made a second YouTube channel.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he has kept up with it, but it he talks a little bit about the charity work that he has done and maybe the things that he wishes had gone differently or things that he noticed in hindsight.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: That is super interesting.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that he had that second channel.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to check that out.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, in addition to watching YouTube videos and all this stuff, where did you find this book that you want to talk about?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: When did you first encounter that?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: I discovered it early last summer.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't know how I stumbled across it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I started reading it on the beach last summer.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I quickly realized that it was not a light beach read.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I thought that I could just read it while I was suntanning, but I realized that I needed to devote the time to comb through the book and kind of take notes and really dive into it.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that this past fall.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I so I've just recently finished this book.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so having just finished this book recently, what were some of your biggest takeaways and lessons that you learned from it?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the biggest things was just making sure that you don't do for people what they could do for themselves.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So those that have the capacity to do for themselves, when you do things for them rather than with them, you disempower them.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's really interesting to think about because I mean, I think that happens sort of inadvertently in mission work.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we go in with good intentions, but we don't realize that, you know, some it's possible that some of the work that we're doing is something that they could accomplish themselves.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that does not apply in every scenario, but you know, we don't always stop and think about what we could be equipping them with instead of just providing them with and not thinking critically about how it's going to affect them.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: The book does a really great job of providing two examples that are very similar, but were went about in a very different way.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they talk about a church that went to Honduras that they noticed needed a well.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the church had connections to engineers and money to cover the cost to install the well.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so they installed the well, and the community was really grateful.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the next year, the same church group came back and they noticed that the well was not working, and so the women were still walking miles to carry the water as they had done before the mission team ever showed up.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: The pump on the well had stopped working.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the mission trip knew what they needed to do.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: They needed to fix the pump.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: The mission group returned the following year, and the same thing had happened.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: The pump had broken and the cycle repeated.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So this community was relying on I outsiders to fix their well.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Outsiders coming from, I assume, thousands of miles away, when we could just teach the people in the village to fix the well themselves, right?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like that metaphor: teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.
• 31:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Same deal.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's another story that the book talks about that is really similar to the previous one.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: So a church went to Nicaragua and they noticed that the community needed a well.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: But instead of the building the well for them, like the previous example, they partnered with the community.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: The mission group assisted the residents in creating a business plan, formulating the budget, and creating a plan to implement the well.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: The money for the well was lent to the community with investments from the community.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they got money from the people in the community so that they had a vested interest in making this well.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it ended up after the well was made, that there was a system of collecting water bills to help pay back the loan from the church mission trip.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And they hired a local engineer to design the well, and they also hired men in the village to do the labor.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really empowering the community, not through only them having a well now, but also through employment.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So unlike the previous example, the community was not only thankful for this well, but they were prideful of this well because they were able to take part in the building of it and they knew how to sustain it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big difference.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that makes that is totally going to affect the long-term, you know, consequences of the of the work that you're doing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: If the community has a vested interest in it and they feel like they participated as well, that I'd be I'd be very interested to see how these two communities feel.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh after I don't know how far in the past these stories were, but I'm very curious to know what they look like now and how they see these wells.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it that I feel like wells, like building a well is like the epitome of an international mission trip?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's all I hear about, which is just very interesting.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or painting.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or painting.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: An orphanage.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Painting a school.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not to say that any trip you take abroad where you happen to paint a school or participate in building a well is having negative consequences, but this just goes to show that, you know, if you are just one person who happens to be participating in this trip, whether you're going to another state or another country to build or paint or do whatever you're doing, it's hard to know exactly what is going to happen and the exact details of the community unless someone has done that research for you, especially if you're a teenager.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be expected to know the nuance of the community you're walking into.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in high school, even if you're in college, that shouldn't be your responsibility.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: So again, if you're listening and you're like, oh my gosh, I've done that.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Am I a terrible person?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, we are not at the point, any of us as college students, really, I don't, I don't think, to unless you were the one fully planning the mission trip for some reason, like, I don't think the responsibility fell on you to um have all that nuance.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you were the one fully planning it, when you are a child or a teenager, you don't have the capacity to look that far into the future and think that critically about the effect that could have.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: The book also does a good job of kind of discussing emergency charity versus non-emergency charity and the way that you should approach both and the way that you should bridge the gap between those two.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I talked about how you don't want to do four communities, but that's when you're in a non-emergency situation.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: When you have a disaster, I think it is perfectly fine and it's necessary to jump in, not expecting people to put their own money and have a vested interest.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the church and the US as a whole does a good job of emergency giving and charity.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think we do a poor job of moving from that into development.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I like your your distinction there because as a I don't know, I grew up Methodist, and if you are a member of Wesley who also grew up Methodist, not all of us did, you might be familiar with Umcor and you've heard about the things.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know too much about what they do, but whenever there's a there's a disaster, an Umcor team is there, like on the ground as soon as possible.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: And when it comes to emergency work, like they just want bodies.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're doing work, right?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that there is nothing wrong.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see anything wrong with that personally.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just want to go help.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: They aren't gonna turn you away.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's about, you know, like you said, Bryson, after the emergency has died down and the essential emergency work is out of the way, how do we transition to being self-sufficient and helping these people be self-sufficient again?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's where the issue and the growth is.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think because the US and churches in the US have not figured out a way to bridge the gap between emergency to non-emergency care.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think we keep people unnecessarily in this cycle of emergency care.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when relief does not transition to development in a timely manner, the compassion becomes toxic.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Your compassion is what's keeping them from developing.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Making uh becoming a self-sufficient community again.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is very true that uh if we don't help people develop in, like you said, a timely manner, then our compassion is going to be what's holding them back.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously, not all charity work is uh working in this model, you know, they don't all follow that same exact uh line.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: So how, Bryson, have you seen, you know, charity work uh uh affect a community positively?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have anything to say about that?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I just mentioned, the the partnering with Nicaragua to create this well, I think that's key.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just partnering and being part of that community.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mentioned, I'm gonna be going to Costa Rica this summer with Vita Volunteer.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And fingers crossed, we're partnering with providers in that country.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just really key that the charities and mission trips that you participate in partner with.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Partners in Health is a ministry that helps to get healthcare to those in developing countries by partnering with the governments and establishing and running hospitals and clinics.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is run by locals.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this is definitely a model that is bryson-approved.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, the type of thing that I will be participating in this summer in Costa Rica.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know a little bit about this, don't you, Lauren?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can speak a little bit to Partners in Help.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're, they are an organization that I have supported financially in the past.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of everything that John and Hank Green do, all the content that they make.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they are big proponents of charity and fundraisers.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: They just had their biggest, they have an annual fundraiser every year called the Project for Awesome.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it just, it just happened very recently.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: And one of their biggest charities that they support is Partners in Health.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: And specifically, they support the there's a maternal health clinic in Sierra Leone, which is a country with a very high maternal uh death rate, like in childbirth.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Partners in Health is working very specifically with the needs of Sierra Leone and with people who live there and know the community and who are members of the community and can speak to the needs personally.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes all the difference.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: The work that I've seen and looked into that they do there is really just incredible.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and not only is it incredible the way that they're partnering and empowering this community, but it's really awesome that they're creating something that is sustainable.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing the book talks about is food co-ops.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know what they were before, but they're an alternative to food pantries.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And unlike food pantries, where you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit, food co-ops are grocery stores that are owned and operated by the people who shop there.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the members get to decide what foods and products are stocked on the shelves, where those items are purchased from, um, what the quality standards of the products are, and what the vendors have to do to meet these quality standards.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was driving down the road one time, and I noticed off the corner of my eye while I was driving through Six Mile something that said upstate food co-op.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Whoa, what?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Upstate food co-op.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to look it up, and yes, I am really excited and pleasantly surprised that Six Mile has a food co-op.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I'm kind of hesitant to call food co-ops a charity, though, because charity has an implication of one-sidedness.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And though the the food distributors and retailers are probably not making huge bucks off of food co-ops like they would with Walmart or other large retailers, it's definitely not one-sided.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: It still is a business deal.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would call food co-ops a ministry.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're self-sufficient and it really promotes community while maintaining dignity.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's a really cool idea.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd never heard of food co-ops either until you started talking about that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I like your calling them self-sufficient and referring to it as a ministry because I think that's true.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you said that you were hesitant to call it a charity, which, you know, is valid.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I wonder, you know, if you have this desire to help people and you're afraid of um, you know, I'm not saying you have to go out and start a food co-op yourself, but it's the same idea of like you know what the community needs, you address that need.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: If they don't have the resources or any idea of how to start, you know, it could be a food co-op or something similar.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: You give them the tools to work with them and help them get started, and then you back away.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's self-sufficient, and they are the ones in control of their own needs.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a really great model.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and that's exactly what Wesley has done with Eleuthra.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all may not be familiar, but Wesley used to go to Eleuthra, which is in the Bahamas.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we talked with Steve and he mentioned that they went to Eleuthra to meet Eleuthra's needs, but he soon realized that they were no longer needed.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so he he took a step back.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's exactly how it should be.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's what's really important is the people in leadership being able to recognize, you know, being able to see the signs in the community, like, hey, maybe we were needed at one point and we did help and work with the community, and that's great, but now they don't need us anymore.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no point in us coming back.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to waste their time or their resources now that they are self-sufficient and they don't need our help anymore.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's definitely one thing that Wesley does well, I think.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Our leadership is very our students and you know, Steve and other uh people that make big decisions are very aware of things like that.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, something else I think Wesley does well is our work with Habitat for Humanity.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you want to speak on Habitat for Humanity a little?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a little bit more research on Habitat for Humanity just to make sure that what I thought was true was true.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it is.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is price and approved.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the homeowner actually usually helps build their house, and they also help build other people's houses as well.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: So to qualify for a habitat house beyond a need for a more suitable home, you also have to participate in 14 hours of volunteer work.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to contribute 14 hours of working on, I think.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Someone else's home in addition to working on your own home.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I didn't know that.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you also have to take classes such as personal finance and home maintenance and other relevant topics.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they really are setting up these future new homeowners for success rather than just giving them a home and being like, well, I hope you know what to do with it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um have fun.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Another unique thing that I didn't realize was that the new homeowners actually have to make quote unquote mortgage payments.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I did not know this.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: So Habitat for Hummunity is a charitable organization, but it gets some of its funding from these quote unquote mortgage payments.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're not an act, they're not a large sum of money.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're an amount that someone could, with these new personal finance skills, could afford to pay.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so the money that they get on these mortgage payments goes back to the organization, back to Habitat for Humanity, allowing them to build even more homes.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the cycle continues, which I think is really cool.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's really awesome.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I did not know.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I knew I'd heard good things about Habitat and I knew that they interacted with the community in a positive way, but I did not know about all that stuff, which is really cool.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: We've had plenty of Wesley students in the past be very heavily involved with Habitat for Humanity.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Every uh fall, we camp out during the homecoming the night before homecoming, we camp out in the house.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's always super fun.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's obviously a very small way that we contribute as a ministry.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are looking to get involved, if you have a passion, a heart for construction ministry, that might be a good place to look.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And sort of along those same lines of Wesley's involvement with Habitat, something I think Wesley does very well is having a local missions team and a focus on mission work and charity work that has a tangible positive effect on the Clemson community, where we don't have to spend a bunch of money to go elsewhere, but instead we can use our time and sometimes even our money to benefit the community around us that's supporting us as students, since we, you know, we live here and so we are impacting this community.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's great that we can still give back in that positive way, in addition to taking the mission trips that we do take.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: And when we do travel, we almost always have a personal connection with the community, or we spend time finding organizations that are pre-existing and doing good work.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the research is put in to find places where we will be making a positive impact.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I can't speak for every mission trip.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: I COVID has impacted a lot.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't been on a mission trip since I was a freshman.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm sure we haven't always been perfect, but I think we do a good job of making sure the work that we do is positive.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: So if you as a listener to this episode were at any point a little off-put, or if there's something that we said that you had trouble digesting, or there was something that we brought up that you were maybe unfamiliar with, I'm wondering, Bryson, a question for you, if there are any recommendations that you have for people who might be a little, you know, uncertain about what to do next?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think more than anything, you just need to listen.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: You need to listen to the community that you're serving because they can best tell you what they need.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to assume what they need.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as we talked about earlier, like in the Bible, most times these people are asking for healing.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone asks for something, definitely try to meet their needs, but continue to listen to them as you are meeting their needs.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then another thing is be fiscally responsible.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to think critically about the money that you're spending on mission trips.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kind of ask yourself could this money be used to do better work in a different way?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's said that a lot of charity can be done by locals in less time for less money.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that would stimulate the local economy.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you also want to get community members to invest their money, kind of how I talked about with the well in Nicaragua.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: If the community members don't want to invest their money, that shows that either the model that you're using they don't have faith in, or it just shows that that's not something that their community cares about.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe you should be putting your money as well as their money into something that is really important to that community.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing is you need to just kind of analyze why you are participating in charity.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think charity should be truly free, but I think a lot of times charity comes with guilt and shame and debt from the person that you are serving.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times people serve out of this desire to be in a position of superiority.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they expect gratitude in exchange for their gifts, which is really not giving.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, because you're expecting something in return.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I just hold the door for someone and they just walk straight through it and don't say thank you, I'm like, excuse me, that was a charitable act.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you do how dare you not thank me.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I mean you sometimes we get upset when someone doesn't thank us for holding the door.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so of course, I think it's it's human nature to be upset when you build a roof for someone at Sakachi and they don't thank you.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: But that yeah, I think I think it's valid to be if that is something that you have experienced and you were like, well, what the heck?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could you could have at least said thank you.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if, you know, you were in a position, not just Sakahatchie, but anything in general where you serve someone and they did not seem grateful, I've been there and it kind of stings in the moment.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, being able to look back and you know, something that I've sort of realized in thinking about this is that people are able to feel more than one thing at one time about a situation.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the people that you are interacting with and serving in some way, they can at the same time feel gratitude, but also be dissatisfied with whatever the service is.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: If it didn't, you know, if they had some idea of what they wanted to be and it wasn't that, or you know, people are complicated.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be anything you can explain in English.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you just feel more than one thing.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can be grateful and also upset at the same time.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes when we get upset for people being quote unquote ungrateful, it's because we see them in a position of inferiority.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like, what position do you hold where you're allowed to be upset?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: The Bible even touches on this idea of giving and expecting gratitude in return.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: In 2 Corinthians, it says, each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what I glean from this is that we need to give because giving is what we should get from it.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it it the cliche is that it feels good to give, and that is the love of Christ, and that's how we should express that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's what I read.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Matthew 6, too, reiterates this and and says it really clearly.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thus, when you give to the needy, sound their trump trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: Truly I say to you, what they received their reward.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: So of course you want to be thanked, but it should never be expected.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's not where your glory is gonna be.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, like I said earlier, it's possible for people to feel two things at once.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's possible.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we are people too.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: We as the people who should be re-examining our care our charity work, we can feel that that little like pang of wishing that someone had been grateful, but also recognizing that it's not about us.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can feel those two things at once.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: People are nuanced.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: We were created with the ability to have nuanced feelings and think critically.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have that for a reason.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so we should be able to, with the free will and knowledge that has been bestowed upon us by our creator, we should be able to use that and think about the effects that we're having.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, just think about the language that you use.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, in my opinion, I think for a lot of mission trips, they should be rebranded or renamed.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that short-term mission trips to exotic places should be rebranded as insight trips or quote unquote study abroads type thing.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because God created this world to be explored, and I think there should be no shame or guilt in wanting to explore it.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't think that we should try and package something that is for us to explore God's creation as us serving others.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a true if it's a mission trip, you're not going to be comfortable and having a good time the whole time.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And before we move on, there's something I wanted to sort of touch on as well.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have been saying through the whole episode that we should be able to think critically.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I did talk about a little earlier, you know, we were created with this ability to think critically.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: And we have, we were given nuance.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think a habit that we have as Christians is to put Christian experiences and things that we associate with God and the actions of God into, you know, boxes, black and white.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we were given, again, free will and the ability to think with nuance.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so if we can be nuanced, then um, you know, scripture can also be nuanced, and the way that we read it doesn't have to be the way that we were taught to read it, you know.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sort of going back to the conversation from earlier about the golden rule, you know, in loving your neighbor, you're also loving God.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's an important thing to remember.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we should be helping people out of their circumstances and uplifting them in that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that's that's the way that we can serve God and love him by helping people because we are all image bearers, if we're gonna use that language.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a good that's a good thing to remember.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: So throughout this episode, this conversation that Bryson and I have had, we have talked about some things that might have left you as the listener with some questions or things that you want to learn more about.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you can always come talk to me at Bryson about this.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: We would love to have this conversation with you.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: But also, we have some recommendations we'd like to give for some further reading and learning if you do have questions.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think the links to these things will also be in the description if you would like to learn more.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: Some things that I found, there's a website called ethicalmissions trips.org, and they are a resource for both organizations and individuals.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: If you have an interest in traveling abroad and you want to do it correctly, then you can look there and they give you some resources and tips to figure out what is ethical and how to go about that in a way that is thinking critically.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing I found, if you're looking for a more academic source, is a paper published discussing the effects of mission trips and uh traveling internationally, specifically about medical trips, but this this um information could be applied pretty generally, I think.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's definitely worth looking into if you want a more academic source that does some pretty hard-hitting research.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing that I found is a blog in which one woman is sharing her experience after reflecting on a trip that she took abroad to, I believe, the Dominican Republic and the things that she gathered from that and realizing how that trip was really only benefiting her and the people that were traveling with her instead of the community that they were going to serve.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you are in a similar boat, I think that would be a great thing to read.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: She gives some pointers how she grew and other resources that she used.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing that I've grown from a lot personally is following this group called No White Saviors.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: I follow their Instagram and their Facebook, very great resource.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're a group of women based in Uganda, and they focus on education and advocacy about many things, including mission trips and how they negatively impact communities and countries in Africa.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: Their work is about combating anti-racism and anti-colonization.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: And through that lens and following them, I've learned a lot about the consequences that Christian mission work has in Africa and ways to learn and grow from that.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: They do a lot of really great work.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: Their Instagram will probably be linked in the description as well.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: When I was doing research, I could really only find articles and websites that applied to international mission trips specifically.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: I looked far and wide and could not find anything about traveling to another state.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that I think that just goes to show that this conversation is not necessarily being had enough.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's still a lot more to learn and uncover about the effects that traveling within the United States can have.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and some resources that I will plug.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of independent websites that grade different charities on certain criteria.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: One of them is Charity Navigator.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's also Charity Watch.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then givewell.org is an independent website that shows you how many lives per dollar that charity helps to impact, which I think is interesting.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Get the most bang for your buck per se.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, the book that I have continued to reference throughout this podcast, Toxic Charity, how churches and charities hurt those they help and how to reverse it.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: This book is by Robert D.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_01: Lupton.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that I I enjoyed reading this book, but I think it could have stopped at how churches and charities hurt those they help because there was little about how to reverse it, which I found very frustrating.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully I gave you some helpful and applicable tips on changes that you can make moving forward in your charity work.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, mission trips and charitable work is hard.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to navigate.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And creating this relationship with the community is a lot harder and it takes a lot longer.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in many cases, it requires a relationship and it's it's long term.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna get that fast satisfaction of making an impact, you know, in an instant.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: And before we conclude, there's one more thing I want to say.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to reiterate that we are not experts.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: We are just two friends having a conversation about something that we have been impacted by and experienced personally and what we have learned from our experiences.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you are curious, in addition to the recommendations that I and Bryson have recommended, I would highly encourage you to do your own research and seek out that expertise and learn from people who have been in communities impacted by mission work, positively and negatively, and learn directly from them.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess that being said, I think that's all we wanted to talk about today.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you have made it to the end of the episode, I hope we still are pals.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: We can all still be friends after this.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to have a conversation with you.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Bryson, thank you so much for joining me on this second episode of Let's Talk.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited that uh you were willing to talk about this with me.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a privilege.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, we will see y'all later.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: The Wesley Word is a production of the Clemson Wesley Foundation.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: For more information about Clemson Wesley, check out our website or follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, get out there and love your neighbor.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: Should I rap Love the Way You Lie?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Should you what?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: Should I rap Love the Way You Lie?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you what it really is.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can only tell you what it feels like.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: And right now it's a steel knife in my windpipe.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can't breathe, but still fight while I can't fight.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: As long as the wrong feels right, it's like I'm in flight.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: I have a love, drunk up a hate.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm huffing paint.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it the more I suffer.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: I suffocate.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like before I'm about to drown, she resuscitates me.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: She brick I hates me, love it.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, where are you going?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm leaving you.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, you ain't.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: I snap.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who's that dude?
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know his name.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: I laid hands on her.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: I never stoop so low again.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: And guess I don't know my own strength.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just gonna stand there.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was so impressed.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: That should have been a fun fact.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do not disrespect the hula hoop game.