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Pattern Recognition: How Observing, Listening & Adapting Can Make You a More Powerful Leader · Serious Lady Business

• LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (00:00) Hey there, I'm Leslie Youngblood and this is Serious Lady Business, the podcast where we get real about what it takes to build a business as a woman today. From late night Google searches and client curveballs to the wins that make it all worth it, I'm talking about the stuff no one puts in the highlight reel. Each week, I'm bringing you honest conversations, lessons learned and stories from women who are out here doing the work. Messy, meaningful and unapologetically bold. Whether you're just dreaming about starting a business or deep in the grind, this podcast is your space to feel seen, supported, and fired up. Because let's be honest, this journey is hard, hilarious, and absolutely worth it. So let's dive in. Leslie Youngblood (00:42) Welcome to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist, and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing media and content agency. Now I want you to meet Margaret Brower, founder of Rainmaker Sales and Marketing Group and sought after coach for catering and venue sales teams across the country. Known for her high energy style, real world strategies, and obsession with helping others succeed. Margaret turns sales therapy into tangible results. She works with the top caterers and venues who create unimaginably creative events, speaks on major stages like TEDx and cater source, and believes that when you lean into your genius and lead with empathy, you can make it rain. Margaret, welcome to Serious Lady Business. Margaret Brower (01:24) Leslie, thank you so much for having me today. I'm such a huge fan of yours. I'm thrilled to be here. Leslie Youngblood (01:29) Well, we are thrilled to have you here and to talk to you about pattern recognition and how observing, listening, and adapting can make you a more powerful leader. So I know you have all these major accomplishments. You recognize patterns. We talked about that. But I want to start at the beginning, Margaret, because when we previously spoke, you said you never knew what you wanted to be when you grew up. So can you walk us how you followed that intuitive path into sales and consulting? Margaret Brower (01:56) love to. So I grew up feeling the pressure to pick a nurse, a teacher, an accountant, a ballerina, right? But none of those sounded like me, nor was I as talented to be the ballerina that I wanted to be. So I was an English communications major at Siena College. And as we got closer to graduation, I felt more and more pressure to pick. And one day, I was on an Amtrak train coming from Albany to Long Island. Leslie Youngblood (02:00) Mmm. moving. Margaret Brower (02:23) And a man I was chatting with said, what are you going to do after graduation? I told him, like fended to him. I don't know. And I feel stressed about it. So he casually said, what are you good at? What do you love? And I instantly knew the answer, Leslie. I said, I'm a really great waitress. I was a waitress at Applebee's at the time. And he told me, great. Leslie Youngblood (02:39) It's done. Oh my god, it's adorable. Margaret Brower (02:47) Be the best waitress, be the best waitress in your restaurants, in New York, in the country. Money will always find you if you follow that. And I think I stuck to that advice. It stuck to me. And I followed that love for hospitality through restaurant management, which led to a wedding venue, sales and catering. And I discovered in that path that like sales was not very different from being a great waitress. It was about. Leslie Youngblood (02:58) Yeah. Margaret Brower (03:13) reading people and anticipating needs and making someone feel seen and cared for. And over time, I moved into leadership and became a sales director. And now I do the same thing on a larger scale as with my own national consulting business. Leslie Youngblood (03:18) Mm-hmm. some minutes. That's amazing. Was this a stranger that you just started talking to on the stream? So total stranger. I just love that so much because one conversation can truly change a life, right? Like even with a stranger and an interaction with anybody, whether you know them, whether it's a stranger has the potential to really be profoundly meaningful. And I just love that so much. Did you ever keep in touch with that person or like that one? Margaret Brower (03:34) Yes. It was just a random person. I think I got that from my mom of just like talking to people while you're sitting next to them. And now, honestly, every person that I coach, they know that that to work with me, that's a non-negotiable, is that they have to talk to strangers. ⁓ Because it is a workout for sales connection on how fast can I build a connection with a complete stranger in finding commonalities. So yeah, I guess it's something that is just innate in me, but also... Leslie Youngblood (04:09) Yes! Yes, sure. I'm here now. I'm here now. Margaret Brower (04:24) something that led to something wonderful. Leslie Youngblood (04:25) Yeah, and I also find too that people want to be talked to. Like most people are too afraid or feel like they're, you know, we have, we've grown up in the age of earbuds, right? And now like screens and phones and stuff. But like most people are just waiting for others to make the move, which sometimes I find maddening because it's like, okay, you know, why do I have to raise my hand? Why do I have to be the one? But it's like, well, of course I should be the one because I have no shame or I'm just like talking to people or connecting with new people. And it's such an important skill in business specifically too, which you you had innately as a young adult and now has just like led you to this fantastic endeavor that you're leading for organizations across the country. So I just think that's so cool. ⁓ And so I know there's like a difference between when we're in the corporate, in our corporate professions and becoming a business owner. Margaret Brower (05:09) Thanks. Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (05:18) Tell me about the moment that you were pushed to consider that and even like make that leap, Margaret. Margaret Brower (05:27) So I maybe was pushed rather than stepped. In 2020, the hospitality industry was rocked like so many other industries during the pandemic. And I canceled 660 weddings for couples that I really loved and made a lot of promises to, right? And that year I broke so many hearts and Leslie Youngblood (05:44) police. ⁓ Ugh. Mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (05:54) really challenging for the career, but it gave me something invaluable. Deep experience in crisis management and a true walk of an empathy. And so once I rebuilt my old own sales team within my organization, I realized I think there's something bigger out there for me. During that time, I started working with other sales directors and catering and venue owners, and I learned quickly that I'm pretty good in a crisis. Leslie Youngblood (06:20) Yeah. Margaret Brower (06:20) at developing systems and creating strategies and helping people find clarity when they don't have much control and they want control. So as a director of sales, you don't usually have a peer in a certain level of an organization. You are the director of sales. are, and you're not exactly the owner or the CEO or, and you're not one of the team members. So having a peer group for myself, reaching out to other sales directors during that time, Leslie Youngblood (06:28) sure. Thanks. here. right. Margaret Brower (06:47) made me see a gap in our industry that there is no dedicated support for sales directors. Most of them are women in catering and venue roles. And that's when I could see my company in my head. First thing I did was put up wallpaper and got a sign before I did anything else because I'm a visual learner. So I needed to see it. And yeah, yeah. And so I could take Leslie Youngblood (06:56) Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah, makes me feel... Yeah, feeling it. Margaret Brower (07:14) the patterns I was seeing across the market and use my human centered approach to support salespeople and directors at a much larger scale and helping them grow their teams and their businesses while also feeling less alone at work. Leslie Youngblood (07:16) No. Yeah, sure. Were you ever nervous to officially like step into business owner role? Because to go from business, to go from director to business owner, I found like even like personally, like, ⁓ yeah, I'm in charge or I make the rules or I can do this. Like tell me a little bit about that transition for you. Was it easy? Was it like natural or was it difficult in some ways? Yeah. Always scary. Margaret Brower (07:51) Yeah, yeah, it was scary. It was very scary. And I have the good fortune of having a really wonderful husband who, when I told him my idea, he said, I will bet on you every single time. That's a direct quote. And then I started feeling like, what am I doing? I have two kids. I should just get a job. And Leslie Youngblood (08:08) Good man. Mmm. Margaret Brower (08:16) then he said, I will have three jobs before you take on one job. Like you're going to do this. And so when I felt the doubt, I had a voice saying, you should do it. You can do it. and then I, most of the time, like that was in my times of doubt, but most of the time I'm a foot on the gas person. And I got a very great piece of advice from ⁓ Paul Newman, who owns a catering company in New York city. Leslie Youngblood (08:36) Yeah. Margaret Brower (08:42) And he said, my wife is a therapist and she always tells her clients leap and the net will find you. And so I hope I got that quote right. And then every time I like, imagine that net, was like, I'm gonna be okay. So I just kind of kept doing it. Leslie Youngblood (08:48) Mmm. Ugh. I love it. I just got goosebumps. That's so incredible. So simple and so true. The net leap in the net will find you. I love that. So you mentioned patterns, Margaret, that you're good at finding those patterns. What does that mean? Like in your day to day work with clients that you find patterns, you're a pattern finder. Margaret Brower (09:15) So I think naturally I practice extreme self-awareness. And so when I was a brand new wedding sales person, I noticed that I had a client sweet spot, right? Italian, Jewish, Greek families on a Saturday night with an amazing gregarious, affectionate mother and everybody loved dessert. like, I started realizing that I was seeing the law of similarity in action. People like people like themselves, right? Leslie Youngblood (09:40) Mm. Mm, mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (09:43) And so then I thought, wait a minute, I'm being the truest version of myself. So I am getting this win through people who are most like me. So then I thought, well, we're not gonna sell out like that. So what else do I have to do to find my own gaps? Like how do I pivot a little bit? What other patterns can I find of people who are... So I started becoming students of my salespeople who are successful in other areas. Leslie Youngblood (09:52) Mmm. Yeah. Margaret Brower (10:09) And so I was like, what are they doing? And so once I identified patterns in my own wins and in my staff, we could dissect it and we're seeing like, why are we closing these people and why are we losing these people? And the same applies to anyone who's listening right now. Like if you think about it, you probably have patterns that you could recognize in your life, like who will you gravitate towards at work or at your kid's school? Which moms do you choose as friends, right? Leslie Youngblood (10:22) Mm-hmm. sure. Mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (10:35) And so with Leslie Youngblood (10:35) ⁓ Margaret Brower (10:35) my clients, I look for the same patterns and there's usually a repeatable thread in both their success and their missed opportunity. So my process starts with listening and observing first, right? I always enter as that. And then I help them magnify the patterns of the wins. And then more importantly, we identify the patterns of the losses. And once we see it clearly, then you can make an action item list on what you want to change, right? So those patterns tell the truth about Leslie Youngblood (10:44) Yeah. Yeah. Margaret Brower (11:03) our what we're doing and once you see them you could choose whether you want to magnify them or change them. Leslie Youngblood (11:09) Yeah, I love that. It's so simple, yet so important and impactful and can truly change the trajectory of a business or a life. And I think that the fact that you were able to recognize that is incredible. And I find that so many women in particular maybe overlook their repeatable brilliance or their unique, you know, the... true uniqueness or what they bring. Why do you think that is? Like, why do we overlook these things that we have innately that can lead to business brilliance, Margaret? Margaret Brower (11:43) That's such a great question. I think so many women overlook the brilliance that's like repeatable because it comes so naturally to them, right? That they stop recognizing it as valuable. And we're sought, taught to see that extraordinary is something far away, right? It's like this big leap, this rare talent. When in reality, it's often the thing that we do almost on autopilot because it's our magic, right? Leslie Youngblood (11:56) Mmm. GANNERS! Margaret Brower (12:11) And then you add that to the fact that women are often rewarded for being adaptable and selfless, right? And you get this culture where we minimize our own consistent wins a bit. And we chalk them up to just doing my job instead of realizing like, no, this is my signature move. This is the thing that I can build on. I'm really good at it. And when I work with clients, I make them slow down and name those wins. So like my first project with any new sales director that I work with, I tell them, Leslie Youngblood (12:21) us. Right. Yeah. Thanks Yeah. Margaret Brower (12:40) I want you to write down the five things that you're the best at. Like, what are you amazing at? And then I go, there's your first five sales lessons. Those are your first five sales meetings, right? Because you can teach that without even thinking it. It's your brilliance, right? And if you can identify the moves that work for you over and over again, you could turn them into a framework and then a playbook and a strength that you can lead with. Leslie Youngblood (12:45) Mm-hmm. literally. Maybe. Mmm! my gosh. Yeah. And then it's like, then you're teaching others to do what you do, build your business. And you're not, and you know, something that's so common is we bottleneck our businesses, right? Because it's our brilliance. It's in our brain. But I love that so much that anybody listening can sit down and do that today is write down those five things that they're the best at. Right. And then like take that and use it, which it's anybody can do that. Anybody can post it on your notes on your phone. Like I'm challenging everybody listening right now to to do that. What Margaret just said, because that is Margaret Brower (13:06) Yes! Yes. Yes. Leslie Youngblood (13:32) like truly trajectory changing and it's so simple. And so tell us too about you work with the people, you work with the sales directors, you work with people in those in-between roles Margaret, you're maybe not quite the executive but you're holding everything together. What unique pressures do they face that people don't see? Margaret Brower (13:51) I love the people in the middle. I really do. I love them because they are the connective tissue of the business, right? And they don't always have the authority to set the vision, but they carry the weight of making things happen. And so they're managing up and managing down and oftentimes they're managing sideways all at once. And the pressure comes from having to hit the results without always having the resources or the authority or the full contact that the executives had in a meeting. Leslie Youngblood (13:59) Mmm. Yeah. sure. I will be like you. Margaret Brower (14:19) So it's this kind of tightrope walk. And because they do it so well, their work can quietly double without anyone noticing. Because they're the make it happen people, they're the in between. And it often goes really noticed when it's not working and very rarely and sadly rarely not notice when it is working. Leslie Youngblood (14:26) with him. huh. Sure. Mm-hmm. Sure, especially I feel like in the hospitality space because like as somebody that was in a hospitality organization, I'm like, you're shaking my head like, yeah, you are making magic happen all the time. And then something, a little hiccup and suddenly it's a disaster when it's like, well, I've been doing all this other amazing stuff and like, and how are you not seeing it? Do you have any tips or do you have any suggestions? Like, how do you advocate if anybody listening right now is in that role? to advocate for themselves or to make it known or to leave and start your own business or no, I don't know. Tell me a little bit about how you advise them. Margaret Brower (15:18) think that you have to really know what your priority is. Like, if you are thinking about the next step more than you're thinking about the step that you're in, it's probably a signal that something is there and that you're maybe putting it on the back burner. And so I would really say that you should concentrate on what's something that keeps coming up in your mind. Leslie Youngblood (15:36) Yeah. Margaret Brower (15:47) that like, this is a need, this is something like that, and don't ignore it and absolutely write it down. There's Dr. Gail Matthews that is from the Dominican University of California, and she did a study and that at 42 % of people are more likely to accomplish their goals if they write them down. And so if we know that's true, I wanna be in the 42%, right? Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (16:06) Right. Right? Get those odds in our favor however we can, for sure. I love that. I love that. It's one of the things that you talk about, Margaret, is entering the room as an observer first. Why do you think that's such a powerful leadership skill? Margaret Brower (16:17) Yeah, yeah! When you walk into a room as an observer, you give yourself the gift of information before you spend any energy, right? You read the room, the tone, who's leading the conversation, notice who's quiet but influential, kind of body language do people have in the room, and it's like a quick clock the details, right? I practice this in any room that I walk into. I think it's from when I was young, I changed schools. Leslie Youngblood (16:48) Mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (16:54) seven times in 11 years. And every school was like in a different district or a different hierarchy. And so I would have to really quickly assess like, okay, who is the decision maker here? Who's the influencer? who do I? And I realized that trying to be part of the group all at once is almost impossible, right? I realized that it's more about one-on-one relationships. Leslie Youngblood (16:56) Wow. Mmm. Margaret Brower (17:17) So observation sharpens your intuition and it like lets you decide how to show up in these individual interactions with intention. So observation is free intelligence. It tells you how to enter the room in a way that lands and it's powerful in leadership because the way you enter often sets the tone for the way that you're received by everyone else. Leslie Youngblood (17:17) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 100%. I love that you just said observation sharpens intuition. I think that's so profound. Like write that on like a embroider that on a pillow, right? I mean, that's simple. And because I think too, especially is whether you're going to a big event or you're starting an organization or you're interviewing somebody coming in and you feel like that pressure, like I have to make an impression. I have to connect with these people. And so coming in from the observer mindset first, Margaret Brower (17:49) Y- Leslie Youngblood (18:08) I feel relieved so much of that pressure, especially for women. And I think also too, the best disruptors. but not that you're going to come in a room, disrupt it. But now I'm talking like from like a business perspective are the ones that are not on the inside. Like you're outside, right? Because you're seeing that there's like a problem and like everybody inside doesn't see this, but I see this. And then you see that there's a problem. And so I think that's such a skill, that observer skill. And to lean into that, too, no matter where you are in your life or your professional journey is to just kind of like lead with that curiosity and that desire. Margaret Brower (18:37) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (18:45) to observe first. Margaret Brower (18:47) And I had hundreds and hundreds of case studies of this with giving tours at venues because weddings are such, I mean, they're so fun because it is a study in the human dynamic, right? You're dealing with families, you're dealing with friends, high pressure, a lot of emotions. So that moment that they enter into a lobby, right? I always coach about what's happening. Leslie Youngblood (18:51) Mm. Ooh, I've got observing people. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Margaret Brower (19:14) like plant yourself in the lobby and don't move until you've assessed. Someone will announce themselves, right? When you walk over, the person who thinks, even if they're not, thinks that they're in charge will step forward, right? They'll take one step forward. And like, then I always look for when a question is asked, especially a financial question, who does everyone look towards? Even if that's not the person who answers, who do they look to to speak first, right? When you say like, Leslie Youngblood (19:21) you right? Mmm. Margaret Brower (19:41) What do we think about XYZ? If it's tied to something financial, they'll do a quick like look or even a glance, right? Or reading the body language of even a simple question like, tell me how wedding planning is going. The body will give you the answer, right? They'll either go like, okay. Or like one will look at the other one because that's the person who's actually planning and the other one is not, right? They're the bystander. Or when, or. Leslie Youngblood (20:02) Ramon. Right? Margaret Brower (20:05) They're like, everything's great, right? Or someone has their arms folded. Like they feel protective. So all of those things about observing the nonverbal conversation first and then the verbal second is all part of, like you should be doing that in anything that you do. Leslie Youngblood (20:10) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness, I think immediately like if you're going to a business meeting or you're like pitching a new client and you're making a presentation and most of the time there is going to be at least two people in the room, right? Let alone a whole table of people or a job interview. If you're going to applying for a job interview and there's multiple people and like bringing in this like observer's perspective of like who's kind of leading the charge and like who do they look to when budget talks come up? Who do they look to when timeline comes up? Margaret Brower (20:28) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. EXIST! Leslie Youngblood (20:53) that is so applicable across industries and positions. And it's so, and everybody can do it today. And we're probably not doing it, not that we don't want to do it, but we're not actively coming in with, it's like a strategy. I mean, it's an authentic strategy, but it's a strategy nonetheless to lead to success. Margaret Brower (20:57) anything. Yeah. And Leslie, talk to the about to graduate and class, like the students who are about to graduate at the Culinary Institute of America. And I realized this is the topic that they are most interested in because they haven't done the reps. They haven't done the interpersonal exchanges going into the workforce enough to feel confident in like body language. So for them. Leslie Youngblood (21:30) Mmm. Margaret Brower (21:35) whether they're gonna go into the back of the house, they're gonna have to know how to navigate with their executive chef or their sous chef or the dishwashers, right? And the prep cooks, if they're going in the front of the house, like not only client facing that body language tells, but also like, you're gonna have a manager. How do you want them to perceive you? And what story do you wanna tell about how intuitive you are? Like, how can you pick up those cues? Leslie Youngblood (21:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, and I think also to... you taking the lead and you that's like empowering for you to lead how they see you instead of those people deciding from their perspective how they see you. Like you're owning yourself. You're owning like your power. You're owning how you want to be seen and what you stand for versus them deciding for you. And I think for young people and people, middle-aged people, right? Like we weren't taught this and you really should be because it's and I love that you teach it because it's totally fascinating and something that Margaret Brower (22:15) Yes. Leslie Youngblood (22:30) what you know, again, whether you're a business owner in a professional workspace, like you should be doing. And I think something, and I would love to get your take on this, is I know a lot of maybe women in particular feel like, well, I don't feel confident, but I want to project conference. It feels fake to me or phony or like I'm performing. What do you tell people when they, about the difference between like adapting and performing, Margaret? Margaret Brower (22:53) Yeah, that is such a great question. So I think the first misconception is that adaptability means fake. And adaptability, like great adaptability, doesn't mean changing who you are. It means choosing which part of yourself you're bringing forward in that moment. So as women, we are really complex. And there's a lot of sides to us. So think about the different versions, Leslie, that you are with your family, with your college girlfriends, in a networking group. Leslie Youngblood (23:21) I'm all over it. Margaret Brower (23:23) There's like different versions and they're all real. They're all you, right? So women are especially good at reading the room because sometimes we overcorrect and try to think about who we need to be in that room. But adaptability isn't about become someone else. It's about like, how am I going to show up in this space, right? And maybe changing based upon the different facets of who you are and what you want to show. Leslie Youngblood (23:27) Yeah. Margaret Brower (23:49) I think the difference is how you can tell if it's fake or not, is how you feel when you leave the room. Okay? Do this test. If you've adapted, you might feel a little tired, but you still feel like yourself. If you performed, you walk away feeling drained, disconnected, maybe resentful. You got the ick, right? Because you were wearing someone else's skin. And so one of the best ways to build your adaptability muscle without Leslie Youngblood (23:55) Mmm. ⁓ Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Eww. Margaret Brower (24:15) crossing into like performance is to practice true connection. And that means finding a commonality quickly. So for my sales clients, I was talking about talking to strangers, right? My girls, they laugh at me every single day about this. So I kind of, I love it. So not too long ago, we're driving into a Wendy's drive-through after school to get some frosties. And there's two windows, one that you pay and one that... you get your frosty at. So the first one, as I pull up, I see this gal like leaning out the window. And I said, that sunshine, I gave her my money. And I'm just like, that sunshine probably feels good. And she said, it's freezing in here with the air conditioning. I said, are you someone who wears a sweater in the summer? And she said, actually I'm anemic, so I'm always cold. And I said, my mom's anemic. It doesn't matter what she does, she's still cold. I said, Do you eat meat? And she said, I'm Puerto Rican. eat pork and chicken and steak. It doesn't help. And I said, ⁓ well, I hope the sunshine really works for you and you can avoid that air conditioning. And we exchanged the change and we pulled to the next window. And one of my daughters from the backseat go, well, that's due. Now they're giving you their medical records. So it could be that quick, right? And it's about like good question asking. Like how, if you are more interested than being interesting, ⁓ that's real talk. Leslie Youngblood (25:27) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mmm. ⁓ And then you become interesting by being interested because people want people that are curious about them. Like it's this grand, like it's the trick, right? I love it. That's so cool. I love it. And so tell us too, Margaret, when you're drained or you're go-go-going and there's times in life that we're going to, in business, that we're going to be busier than others. Tell us a bit like how... Margaret Brower (25:42) Yes! Yeah? Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (26:05) what those evolutions teach us about ourselves because, right, like when we spoke before, I think we talked about, you you went from go, go, go to gardening and walks on your vision board. And so tell us about how, when you know it's time to change, to make some modifications to that vision board, or you know that it's time to maybe ramp up in your life in business. I'd love to hear that. Margaret Brower (26:15) Yeah. Yeah. So I think, well, my vision boards of the past were all pretty similar, right? Foot on the gas, microphones, go, go, go energy, like you said. I say a word every year with intention and my word consistently probably for 10 years was insatiable because I was never satisfied with where I was. And then every New Year's Day, my ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (26:45) ⁓ Margaret Brower (26:52) girls and my husband and I sit at our dining room table, stacks of magazines, and we create our vision boards and we, honestly, we eat caviar. It's like the one time of year we do that. And then we, but then we have to present the board to our family, right? And like explain why. And so this New Year's, my board looked very different. I actually knew we were gonna talk about this, so I'm gonna show it to you, right? And on it has so many different things. It says like, Leslie Youngblood (26:58) Cool. ⁓ wow, love a sheep. Thank you. you fall. Margaret Brower (27:19) easy weeknights and like beginning your own tradition and kindness and one meeting at a time. And that was, I wasn't planning on that. It was just what was speaking to me for the year. And I really think that that shift didn't mean I was losing ambition. It meant that all of a sudden I felt like a little bit of a redefined version of what success meant. And Leslie Youngblood (27:21) Mmm. Margaret Brower (27:42) It was organic and they were speaking to me and I had just listened to Ina Garten's memoir. And she said that over 10 years, like over time, she never had a 10 year plan, never. She always tried to do whatever she was doing to the fullest at that moment. And I was like, oh, that feels so right to me right now. So my word this year is presence, right? See what I mean, like pendulum swing from insatiable to presence. And Leslie Youngblood (27:53) Mmm. Yeah, huge thing. Margaret Brower (28:11) I think that like the lesson that I learned about is that seasons change and if you don't update your vision to reflect your current life, you'll end up chasing a version of happiness that doesn't fit you anymore. And that's kind of like, you gotta tune into that. Leslie Youngblood (28:23) Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you know, I would love to hear your take on, because I've talked with fellow women before and... We are nervous or, what is it, like not nervous or maybe there's shame in changing our minds or changing what we want or we're embarrassed to want to pull back or embarrassed to want to like lean forward or embarrassed to want to change your hair or get Botox or whatever, right? And like, I'm always like, who cares? Change your mind, like change your brand, change your mind. It's like, like who cares? But I think a lot of women out there are afraid to do that. And like, why do you think that is? Margaret Brower (28:53) Yes. because there's kind of this rumor going around that if you change your mind, it means that you're flaky or ungrateful, right? And then when really in reality, it's a sign of growth and like men can change and be strategic. But in you just said something so important in 2025, who cares? Whatever we want to do, I want to be talking about that consistently, right? And we see women pivot everywhere. I mean, like in my own life, Leslie Youngblood (29:06) Mmm. Yeah. Who cares? Mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (29:27) My mom was stay at home mom with five kids until she was 40. And then when my little sister was going into kindergarten, she took one college course and she said to my dad, like, I always wanted to be a teacher. I think I want to go. And so she was retired with two master's degrees as an elementary school principal. ⁓ She's like the most unbelievable person in the world. Leslie Youngblood (29:48) Wow. Love that. Margaret Brower (29:52) My favorite Aunt Jeannie opened a card store, a cards and gifts store in the 1970s where like there were very few business owners that were women. And the men who would come in from Hallmark and things to sell her the cards, they would say, look, can I speak with your husband? And she would say, I'm the decision maker here. And right before she passed, I was going to start Rainmaker and she was like, nothing is holding you back from greatness. Right. And so like women in my family that I'm surrounded by, Leslie Youngblood (30:14) amazing. Margaret Brower (30:19) have that mindset, but also we're surrounded by men who cheer them on. And that's so true for me. So if you're feeling like you can't change your mind, I would rather that you change the people around you rather than change your vision. Leslie Youngblood (30:23) Yeah. That is so important. And I know, you we hear all the time, you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with, right? And especially as a business owner, it can be difficult because... Margaret Brower (30:38) Yes! Yes! Leslie Youngblood (30:43) Who else? If you have fellow business owner friends and family members, it makes it so much easier because they understand. if there's people around you that just don't get it, it can be really difficult to try to explain to them. And so to go out and not saying, well, divorce your husband if he doesn't get it. But it's like go out and seek, you know, entrepreneur groups or online communities. You know, there are others around that can help you feel empowered and help you give into that. nudge that won't go away to pivot, right? Because I feel like we always know it's time, right? Are you, the more we ignore it, the more it forces itself upon you, or at least that's been my experience, right? And so if you're feeling that desire to pivot or change your mind, Margaret Brower (31:21) Yes! Yes! Yes! Leslie Youngblood (31:28) do it now because you're just gonna lose the time. But I know it's easier said than done, like of course. And so I do think that it's important to seek out those in your life that can be your cheerleaders and or sounding boards and get it and don't make you feel bad for pivoting because it makes me crazy too. Margaret Brower (31:43) Yes, Leslie, know you Leslie, I know you are a Swifty also. And if we have learned anything from Taylor, it's that you can have many different errors in your life. And it's totally, and that I feel like that's the change of like people more and more young women are not okay with just staying in the bucket. They're not. And so they're showing like younger women that young girls Leslie Youngblood (31:49) Yes. Are you? What? so many. Yeah. Yeah. Margaret Brower (32:10) that you don't have to be one thing, right? You could be many things and that life is not linear. It has a lot of curves to it and you don't need permission to choose a new path. And if it feels too big to say out loud, like you need to start with one action in the direction of what's pulling you, right? So that could mean calling someone who's already doing it or signing up for a class. Leslie Youngblood (32:15) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Margaret Brower (32:35) or tell one trusted friend what you're, like I see some messaging out there that says, like, keep things to yourself, you don't need to share everything. And that probably can work for a lot of people. It doesn't work for me because I am a sharer. And I think that like, when you say it out loud, you speak it into existence, right? My sign in my office says the words you speak become the house you live in. And that's like a ⁓ Persian poet. Leslie Youngblood (32:45) Hmm. Yes. Great. Mmm. Margaret Brower (33:02) wrote that and I think that it's so true that if you say it and it's negative, right, that becomes your reality. If you say it and it's positive, that also becomes where your mind lives. So I think that that is something that like surround yourself with as many people as you can who say yes often because who you believe you want to be is possible and my friends, my Leslie Youngblood (33:05) Yeah. True. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I that... Yes. Margaret Brower (33:28) Family were yes people. I don't hang out with any devil's advocates because I like there's nothing like a buzz kill like a devil's advocate. ⁓ I know, I know. Leslie Youngblood (33:31) Ha ha ha ha! Yeah. Buzz kills a real plumber. ⁓ it is, know, like, Dululu is the Sulu-lu, right? And it can be difficult, even when you are surrounded by yes people, to see that vision that only you see. But that's why it's yours. Like other people aren't going to get it. that's OK. Other people aren't going to get it. And you have to realize that's OK. They're probably not going to get it because you're doing what is in your mind, in your vision, what you want to cast forward. And so let go of trying to get people to get it. Margaret Brower (34:01) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (34:06) And that's what I think Taylor Swift does so well, right? Like, and I love so much that even though she's had all these errors and these like pivots, she's still herself. You know, Taylor Swift, like she is, you know, this still this like one person. And I think that is such a great lesson. There's so many great lessons we can take from Taylor Swift, but that is such a great lesson too. Like when it comes to business pivot, you're still going to be you. The core view is still you. Like don't be afraid to embrace errors, to try something different, to try a different sound, to try a different, you know, product or service, right? And you're only going to get better and learn. And those tough points are also going to like if something doesn't work. this is also to like failures, not final failures, not final. It's just another it's just another pivot, especially when it comes to business. And yes, we need to make money. We need to pay our bills. We need to keep our lights on and all that those things. But my goodness, like just keep going. Right. Like you just keep going. Margaret Brower (34:46) Yes. Yep. Yep. Right, Leslie, feel like the way in those pivot moments, the way that you talk to yourself is really important and that is a discipline. The way that you speak to yourself, like I try and practice gratitude as much as I can and I'm not saying this to be this kind of like woo woo practicing gratitude, but I'll tell you, I just started doing yoga. I feel like, you know what? I'm mid forties and I feel like I'm losing some. muscle strength. So I started my first class. I almost cried in the class because I kept thinking. I was like, my God, I'm so bad at this. And I kept saying to myself, I am shocked how weak you are. Like I was saying that in my mind. Like I can't believe I was watching these other women as what I thought were going to be inspirational of doing. It was like a beginner class too. Of that, we're going to be inspirational. And I felt like Leslie Youngblood (35:26) Mm. You're a star. It's wild. No Margaret Brower (35:52) ⁓ I'm weak right now. And then I got out of the class and I was like, this is the discipline. I changed it to, I am getting stronger. That's what I changed it to. So my second class, I made it my mantra. Like even though it wasn't great at it, I'm only on four classes. So I'll tune in with you, know, update you on how it's going. But that's what I keep saying every time. Like I am getting stronger. Is it, can another truth be real? Sure. But that's not what I'm going to keep saying. Leslie Youngblood (36:07) Yeah, yeah, keep us posted. Mm-hmm. Margaret Brower (36:19) because then Leslie Youngblood (36:19) Right. Margaret Brower (36:21) I'm just gonna keep on thinking that I'm weak and I'm not. I'm doing something for myself. Leslie Youngblood (36:23) Right, right, right. And if everybody thought that we wouldn't have anything or right, like I always like say like athletes make good. business people because you're used to losing. You're used to like struggling to get better. And in your mind, you have to trick yourself like when you're down by three with two seconds left on the clock. Like you have to believe that you can still win. And guess what? A lot of times they'll still win and you find a way to win. And that's the same thing though. Where you talk to yourself like, I'm learning, I'm getting stronger. I'm becoming a better business owner. I'm becoming better at sales. I'm, you know, a beginner at this. It's going to take time, right? And like also too, I look at Olympic athletes like they also Olympic athletes and not just wake up one day and decide I'm going to be an Olympic athlete they put years behind becoming to that place right like so what and business owners you know you hear about you know like Sarah Blakely with Spanx right like and she got so many no's and she kept going and she just you know figured out and in her and she talks a lot about the mental toughness you know with you know and all the things that would kept her focused in Margaret Brower (37:09) Yes. Yes. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (37:30) delusional to know that she was going to make it work. And she did. And it's very difficult. I think like the mental toughness that comes from entrepreneurship is, you you hear it's going to be hard and you're like, yeah, I'm tough. can I'm tough. I'm tough. And then you're like, OK, yeah, this is this is hard. Like, and you have to, you know, give yourself that grace and be kind to yourself mentally and come at it from that growth mindset, because. It's just, it's hard either way. Why not make it a little easier on yourself through there and know that you, yeah. Yes. Margaret Brower (38:00) You brought up athletes and I think it's two other groups. It's athletes, drama kids and beauty queens. That's where I think it is. I always find that if someone that I coach is one of those three things, then they are not deterred by the no and the fail. They, right, I didn't get the part, I'm gonna go for the next one. Or I'm gonna be in the cast, the ensemble. Or I'm gonna be an assistant stage manager and learn from this experience, but I'm gonna try out for the next play. Leslie Youngblood (38:07) ⁓ Yeah, fascinating. bright. Yes. Yes. Wow! Margaret Brower (38:28) Right? Beauty queens, they have to go up there. They didn't probably get to be queen on their first go at it, right? They went at it again and again and again. And once they win, they usually go up a level and keep on striving. So I think that those, though, maybe that'll be the title of my book, right? Athlete Trauma Kids and Beauty Queens. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (38:35) That's good. Bye. Yeah, that's a good one, Margaret. I love it. Yes, for sure. Right. Perfect. I love that. That's incredible. And yeah, have that tenacity to keep going and take that L if you have to and pivot, right? Like all the things that we're saying and take that chance. Now, as we wrap up, Margaret, I would love to know if you could help more women master just one platform or practice in their leadership journey, what would it be? Margaret Brower (39:01) Mm-hmm. One thing, if I think if I could teach one practice to women, it would be the habit of naming your wins, big and small. In real time, write them down. Patterns are not only in the problems, they're in the magic. And so find the pattern of what you're good at and what you love and say them out loud and write them down. Because the more that you could recognize your repeatable brilliance, Leslie Youngblood (39:24) Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Margaret Brower (39:40) the easier it becomes to build on. Leslie Youngblood (39:42) I love that. That's fantastic. Thank you so much. Now, before we let you go, tell everybody where they can continue to follow up with you and connect with you outside of this podcast, Margaret. Margaret Brower (39:52) So you could follow me on Instagram on at Rainmaker sales marketing. And also I send out a newsletter, which is like my passion project. So you can go to rainmaker sales marketing.com and you can sign up for my newsletter. And then I send information on sales and connection and mindset. Those, those two ways are the best ways. Leslie Youngblood (40:14) Awesome. I love that. Perfect. And we'll drop those in the show notes as well. Well, thank you so much, Margaret. It was such a pleasure to talk with you today about patterns, pivoting, all the things. I wish you continued success and have a fantastic day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Margaret Brower (40:29) Thank you so much for having me. It's been such a pleasure and so easy to talk to you. You are marvelous. So thank you. Leslie Youngblood (40:36) likewise. Cheers. Bye, Margaret. Margaret Brower (40:38) Bye. Leslie Youngblood (40:40) Thanks for tuning in to Serious Lady Business. If you loved this episode, be sure to follow or subscribe so you never miss a moment of the real, raw, and really wonderful sides of female entrepreneurship. And hey, please leave a review if you're feeling generous. It helps more amazing women find us and join the conversation. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at at Serious Lady Business and get all of the updates at SeriousLadyBusiness.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, and keep being your seriously amazing self.