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State Lines · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you. You guys, I don't even know how to tell you how hard the last six months have been. You understand. I know you understand.
• 1:11
  You've listened to us talk about it. So much has happened. So much is going on. But obviously, the biggest thing as far as what has to do with this podcast has been the changing of the therapist. And it has been a nightmare.
• 1:25
  First of all, the levels of grief and challenges with that transition has been absolutely the hardest thing of, like, modern recollection. It was so hard. And then, just like all of us already know, finding a new therapist has been a nightmare. We talked about the challenges with family therapists that we have to focus on the kids, so it's difficult to focus on our own stuff, even though she's very good and we love and adore her, and she's absolutely a safe person still in our corner. We shared about trying to find different therapists, and then finally, we found the new lady and even shared the podcast episodes about what that was like meeting her officially transferring with the transfer call from the therapist to the new lady and even having EMDR for the first time, which for us in that context, in that very limited learning how to do it kind of way, it was a really positive experience.
• 2:32
  So all of that was good, and all of that felt great. Right? Except no. Because, of course, not. Why would things be that easy?
• 2:45
  I don't know. Our life, you guys, you have no idea. Oh, wait. You do. Because we can't stop talking about it.
• 2:52
  Okay. So here's what happened. The Reader's Digest version is things did not work out in her office. The therapist is amazing. We love and adore her, and also, in fact, even miss her a little bit, even though we only got to see her five or six times because she was amazing and she was really helpful.
• 3:12
  She's the one who talked to the therapist, and so it felt like a good transition and everything was going to be okay. But her office in which she works, things did not work out there. There's all kinds of drama with paperwork and insurance and state lines and this and that. So no, it didn't work. And so ultimately, what it came back down to is that we need to see a therapist where we live and who can take our insurance because that's all we have.
• 3:43
  We have no resources, especially now with quarantine and everything being shut down. We are really struggling just like everyone else is struggling, so we need to be able to pay for therapy with our insurance. So we need someone who can take our Medicaid. And then we need someone who obviously can help with trauma. And so that's like three things.
• 4:05
  We need someone in Kansas who takes Medicaid and can help with trauma. And finding all three of those things in one office that is not creepy and that feels safe has been so hard. It has taken six months. We never ever would have stopped seeing the therapist if we knew this was going to take six months to find a new one. We really thought we had everything lined out and that we had done it correctly, and it has just been a disaster and absolutely the hardest thing.
• 4:37
  I I can't even, I can't even. So when we could not go see the new lady, just interviewing more people, we sent out a bunch of emails. So again, for the third time, we emailed everyone listed on the Kansas side of Kansas City who listed trauma as a specialty, who said they can take can care, and it was once again, like, 35 emails or something like that. Like, that's pretty vulnerable or foolish. You guys, like, we are sincerely and authentically trying.
• 5:13
  And only three people emailed us back. No. Four did, but one of those was near the office space where we may be opening our own private practice again in an office. And so we couldn't see her just because it was too close to our new office, like convenient but awkward. So that was not gonna work.
• 5:35
  So that left us with three choices. And the first one, we went to and she had a therapy dog, which I am not a dog hater. You all know that some of us especially really love dogs. We are not a dog hater. But this dog bit us and was not really a therapy dog.
• 5:58
  It was one of those kinds where they said it was a therapy dog, but it meant we just keep our dog at the office, which is not the same as a therapy dog. So we did not go back there because that's actually not a thing. And then the second one also said they had a therapy dog, and we're like, nope. Been there, done that. We don't wanna get bit again, and we're finished, which I know is really sad.
• 6:21
  You guys, please understand. I am not dissing therapy dogs. This was just a bad experience. They went poorly. But also, because of our daughter's airway issues, we cannot do dogs right now even when they think they're hypoallergenic.
• 6:34
  There's just extra stuff involved that makes it too difficult for our daughter's airway. So without any disrespect to all the dog fans, which left us literally with one final option. I mean, like, we have been therapy shopping for two years and intensely for six months. Here's the news though, guys. I think we have a new new lady.
• 7:08
  So the new new lady, we're not gonna call her that the whole time. We'll just go back to the new lady. But I want you to understand that it's different than the first new lady who was amazing but we couldn't keep going to. This new lady also seems amazing, fits the primary criteria of in the same city where we live, takes our insurance, and knows about DID. So these are three bonuses just to get us in the door.
• 7:35
  But also, as it turns out, not impossibly far away from our house. So again, close enough to be accessible or, you know, online if everyone is in quarantine for eighteen months. And then also pulling into her office, there's, like, grass, and it is beautiful, and I'm sure it helped that the sun was out for the first time in two weeks. But I gave credit to the therapist. Like, I pulled into her parking lot and nature all around me said, here is the sunshine.
• 8:09
  This is your new therapist. It was very musical like, and so the husband would approve of the moment and the sentiment behind the moment. So we went in, except not really. We always sent Emily in, and the therapist has called us out on this in the past, but we've not responded to it. But I want to finally respond to it because I think we didn't know.
• 8:33
  I think it was something so automatic and so default that we weren't aware of it happening. And so when the therapist called us out on it, it was really uncomfortable, but also we didn't really have a response because she's not wrong. But also looking at why and what that means brings up, you know, the whole avoidance thing of, okay, so maybe we're dissociative and maybe it's, you know, trauma and stuff we need to talk about. Here's the thing though, We can throw Emily out front whether she likes it or not and send her because she literally doesn't know anything. And so it's very safe because we can check out the environment, and we can check out the new new lady, henceforth known as the other new lady.
• 9:24
  I mean, just the new lady. And we'll just call her the therapist, and you'll know we are referring to the new new therapist. So the new therapist, ta da, done. The new therapist, we can watch her, we can check out the office, we can see what's going on because we're getting better at this co consciousness, right? And so trying to be aware, but also we can't just all come out at once and talk to her.
• 9:52
  And so throwing Emily out front, whether she likes it or not, like, she can manage enough she's not a walking panic attack anymore. Right? We've made progress. But that way, we can still filter, like, what are we gonna answer and what are we not gonna answer. Except you guys, we talked.
• 10:10
  We talked like nobody's business. I think I think we seriously maybe said more to this new therapist than we said in three years. And we have a podcast, so that's a lot of talking. No. It just felt good.
• 10:30
  Seriously, it just felt good. She asked questions in very safe, nonintrusive ways. The session mostly went through the intake form where she could kind of go deeper and kind of push a little bit, but not so much that it was overwhelming. But also, we seriously, consciously, intentionally want to do this work. So even though it is scary and even though it is hard, we need to talk about these things.
• 11:00
  So are the parents divorced? Yes. Are they dead? Oh, yeah. That too.
• 11:05
  And also, was that bad because of why? Oh, this and this and this. And do you have siblings? That's a really tricksy question. Let me explain why that's tricksy.
• 11:16
  And what else? Oh my goodness. So many things. I don't I don't I don't even know. So many things.
• 11:23
  So in the past, it would take it would take, like, one session to answer doctor e questions and one session to answer, like, home life questions from Em and Emily. So, maybe two or three sessions for that. Just, like, general information, not even hard things. Much less, are we ever gonna talk about stuff from the past? No, because that was gross and awful, so why would we wanna talk about it?
• 11:49
  Except today, working together, being aware and paying attention, we totally talked about it, and it was amazing. So whether we were able to do that because of our own hard work or whether we were able to do that because we were so consciously and intently and working together prepared to go in there and get to work because we're not messing around anymore, or whether it's because EMDR with the new lady actually helped us that much and calmed us down so much that we were able to get started when we went in for this session, or whether it was some combination for all of it. I don't know. But you guys, we stinking pulled it off, and I'm stinking proud of us. And it was amazing.
• 12:42
  I mean, also highly unpleasant, but it was amazing. It was so, so good. I can't even tell you. Except that, here's the thing, as of the time I'm recording this, we are still in quarantine. So we have permission to go to this appointment, but here is why.
• 13:03
  We have, number one, passed the required seven days of quarantine. We are doing the full fourteen days just to be sure because of our daughter, but we'll talk about that in a minute. Number two, we brought sanitizer with us and didn't touch anything. We did sit down, but then when we got back, we changed our clothes and took a shower. But we didn't touch anything other than the clipboard, but we brought sanitizer with us and used sanitizer after doing the forms with the pen and the clipboard.
• 13:38
  Also, the other thing is she had the office shut down. She has two people in her office, and one of them is seeing people at night, and one of them is seeing people at day. And they're not letting anyone even sit down in the waiting room, and they're cleaning up in between people. And so I got permission for those reasons, and in that way, and it all went fine. That doesn't mean that that won't change, where we can't even go.
• 14:06
  So she is working on setting up telehealth, but we were able to get all the forms signed and get everything set up so that we can continue seeing her even if our city goes on lockdown, which we are pretty close to being because they've even canceled school for the rest of the year. It's crazy. So the husband is at home with all six children who they themselves are in quarantine because we were already in quarantine for our daughter, and we're in quarantine separately from them, except now we've passed the day, and we will get to go home soon. Unfortunately, part of why we get to go home soon is kind of bad news, and I don't really know how to share this other than just saying it. But, really, what's happened is hospital called yesterday and said that because of the coronavirus, the hospitals here are actually already full.
• 15:04
  And not only are they full, but they're already out of respirators and they are already out of personal protective equipment, which is like the gowns and the gloves and the masks. There's not enough. They're out of them. And because of these reasons and because the hospital's already full, they have gone ahead and officially moved our daughter to the there's nothing we can do about it list. And her surgery has been canceled, and she's one of those cases that is the hard decisions they've had to make because they can't help everyone.
• 15:38
  And her condition will always be this condition. And because that is her quality of life and to have surgeries after surgeries, that is not the same as other people they could help who would still have a healthy life if they get better. And so they've canceled her surgery and said that there's nothing else they can do for her and that she's in God's hands with their deepest apologies. That's how they said it. I'll never forget it.
• 16:08
  There's two times. This obviously is a trigger for when the mother was killed and we went to the hospital to see her before she died, except they sent us to the wrong hospital. I don't know if we've ever told you this. So her car accident was on the interstate right next to a small town, and she was supposed to be life flighted to a hospital in Tulsa in the big city. Right?
• 16:30
  And so they told us to go to the hospital in the city, but that was actually where the driver of the Jeep was sent, not our mother. So they sent us accidentally to the wrong hospital where the guy who killed our mother was. So there was all kinds of drama. There was plenty of trauma drama that day, but that's a whole different story. The point is that when the doctor came out and said, she's expired.
• 16:59
  And we were like, like milk? Like, what do you mean she's expired? It reminds me of that. Like, there's no easy way. And, like, we have worked as a chaplain.
• 17:11
  Okay? So we get that these are difficult conversations that happen in the lives of doctors every day. But there's just no way to not make it hard, no matter how good the doctor is, no matter how right they say everything. You can't undo the horror of the moment of having to give that kind of news, right? And so this was kind of those moments.
• 17:33
  And I'm not making fun. I'm dissociating. Like, it's not my problem. It has to stay over there because it's too overwhelming and it hurts too much to talk about. But this was one of those moments where you could feel the dissociating happen.
• 17:45
  Like you start to pull out of your body and everything gets blurry. Like, oh, it was a hard thing, but that's what they said, that she's in God's hands with their deepest apologies, and we're like, why are you apologizing for her being in God's hands? That's exactly where she should be. You know, the real God, not fake people misrepresenting a bad God. So, anyway, that's the news, and I'm not making light about it.
• 18:11
  It just hurts so much, and I can't podcast and function and feel all of that at the same time. So I'm just informing you, and we will process it later. The other thing just to let you know is that so far, we're feeling fine. I want you to know that we're okay as of the recording of this podcast. We'll continue to give updates just so that everyone knows.
• 18:32
  I know that feeling connected has been helping in some ways so that everyone feels a little less isolated. Again, remember that the social distancing is not social disconnecting. We need to remain connected to each other even if we are getting creative in how we do that. Right? So make sure that you're reaching out to people and connecting with friends in the way that you're able to as you can, when you can.
• 19:03
  We are hoping to head home soon, and we'll be pretty overwhelmed with all the children home all day forever. It's like when we had to homeschool for two years when our youngest daughter was a baby and couldn't be exposed to anything. So our family knows quarantine. We have the drill down, but it's exhausting and pretty intense. But you know what?
• 19:25
  That's part of why our family is so close. And lots of people comment to us pretty often of, your family is so close, your children are so together, and our children are crazy and are as difficult as raising any other children really, except that there's a whole crowd of them. So we have our own normal family problems, but the closeness that people notice in our family is because we spend time together. We don't have a TV in our house, we've had tons of experiences on quarantine, and we've been through really hard things as a family. And so, it's actually really that simple.
• 20:04
  We just spend a lot of time together, and so that's why our family is close. That being said, I know that there are lots of other kids out there and lots of other families out there where that is an exact recipe for danger and disaster for domestic violence situations, for kids and families who don't have enough food or resources. And so I know it's a scary time for a lot of people, but I want you to know that we are still here. And I hope you can hear our voice now. And you're welcome to write into us if that helps.
• 20:41
  Connect with other people online. Do what it takes to find ways to be connected to people even while we're separated. And it's also a pretty crazy thing that this whole coronavirus thing that's now such a global well, now officially a pandemic, that even recording this now, in two weeks when you hear it or in three weeks or four weeks, whenever we post it, if it even makes it up onto the podcast by that time, it gets almost obsolete when you're trying to talk about it because I know so much is coming out so fast and we're learning so much so quickly because we knew nothing. And so I know the news is changing all the time and that there's so much going on and I know that it's hard. But remember that you're not alone in it.
• 21:29
  And in some ways, there's some level of comfort that everyone is going through this together. Like, I don't want people to get sick, and I don't want people to hurt, and I don't want people to grieve the many, many lives that have been lost to it already. I just mean that there's something special about us turning off all of these distractions and taking down all of these barriers from ways that we're so good at distracting ourselves and hiding from each other and having to really just be present and appreciate the connections that we do have in the ways that we can. It's a challenge being present with yourself and others inside, very similar to the way it is a challenge to be present with others on the outside when you're used to having so many ways to avoid that or escape that or not even notice that. So welcome to quarantine, the entire world.
• 22:34
  We are in this together. But as I was thinking about that, being more present with ourselves or co conscious internally, I was thinking about one of the things that makes that hard really is the shame of it. And I don't mean that you all should be ashamed of yourselves for dissociating, but I was just reflecting and being aware and noticing why we would feel some shame because everyone tells you, like, every therapist well, almost every therapist, you know what I mean, will say, it's not your fault. And if you were helping a friend who had been abused, your heart would go out to them, and you would have compassion for them because you would know that it wasn't their fault that they got hurt. And yet, when we consider ourselves and our own stigma and shame about DID that we even internalize within ourself, it's a pretty cruel thing because we would never do that to another person.
• 23:35
  Right? And so the more I learn about DID, the more I think about this, and the more we've sort of come out in some ways and try to do that safely as best we could, navigating that always comes back to shame for us. And we've been trying to figure out why is there a shame piece involved, and where does that come from? Like, what is the trigger that's setting it off if I know in my head that it's not really our fault or something we did on purpose in a bad way, but just something that kept us alive until we could get help now? So now that we are finally getting help again with a new therapist, I wanted to figure out what is the shame piece so that we can resolve it.
• 24:23
  And I feel like we've been talking about shame for over a year, and we've learned so much about shame and wanting to explore that. And I finally realized that I think one of the pieces is because it feels like we failed. And I don't know exactly even how that feeling comes about because we didn't fail to survive. We're still here. And we didn't fail in doing something wrong when we did something that kept us alive.
• 24:58
  But I think where it gets messy, if we're being super, super honest with ourselves, I mean brutally raw honest, is that it feels like it's a fail because it didn't entirely work. I'm just gonna let that settle for a minute. Because I'm not saying that people with DID are bad, and I'm not saying that our alters are bad, I'm not saying that any of that is a failure, please, please, please understand that. Some of the latest research proposes this structural dissociation theory, right, That everyone is born multiple and part of development is integrating those into one identity. And trauma prevents that integration so that the multiple identities develop more and more distinctly, right?
• 25:52
  So there's that piece. There's also systems like when you hear the internal family systems interview, he says everybody is multiple, period, which includes the endogenic group that identify as plural but have no trauma identified because he said everybody, period. And then there's also the relational trauma that can cause parts almost in an OSDD kind of way, but is not as distinct as DID. There are those theories kind of based on the structure of things, but there are also other theories besides structural dissociation that talk about the splitting, that there's a core and that because of trauma and stressors, parts split off from that center. But really, the more and more I talk to different survivors and more and more I talk to different clinicians and read more of the research, it's really like we kind of don't quite have it figured out yet.
• 26:56
  And the closest thing is that there's kind of both are true and that everyone kind of is born multiple, there really is this structural development that can fail, so to speak, when development is interrupted by trauma and when relationships are developed by trauma. But then ACEs and baby ACEs that we study has told us that that can even start before a person is born. So someone's trauma may not even just be something that they don't remember. It could be in a relationship. So it's not physical or sexual or emotional, but it's relational trauma.
• 27:34
  Or it can even be in utero before they were born. And now, with that research, it could even be generations ago. So that genetically, it's actually a thing, but the person doesn't know why, and it has to do with it being passed down that way. There's so much science and so much research, but the point is for healing. And when there are stressors, we dissociate, which is the separating of or from the stressor.
• 28:08
  So whether you call it compartmentalizing or whether you call it that separation or whether it happens in a big way so that there's a splitting or some people would say creating a new alter or whatever phrasing you want to use, all these different perspectives, all kinds of different language of talking about similar experiences that are different for everyone. I think for us personally, there is some layer of frustration with failure to get it right. Meaning that the shame that we are exploring and have looked at over the last year, part of it is we can't even get DID right. Do you see what I'm saying? Because if we had been able, as a system, to create or split off or utilize or whatever is the appropriate language, someone for a specific thing who could do it well and manage it without being overwhelmed, we wouldn't have also needed this one and this one and this one.
• 29:21
  Does that make sense? So fundamentally, there's this layer of feeling like you're not good enough even at DID, which makes it feel like a really daunting process to get better. And I think we came very close to that happening with the podcast and with transitioning therapists, because in that time, so much has happened. And I think that if we didn't hold onto it, like the way you hold onto a person about to get sucked out of an airplane, like that's how strong it felt. If we literally did not hold ourselves together, I think that would have happened.
• 30:03
  I think we would have had someone new. And maybe in a way we kind of do. But focusing that, even when we couldn't stop all of the external circumstances, what we could do was manage our response to those circumstances. If you think about a map, if you're going to draw a map, not a map of a specific system where this person is here and that person is there and these are together and those are together, I don't mean that. But I mean a map of how DID works.
• 30:38
  And you drew and you drew a box or a circle or something with all the dividing lines inside. I think what we decided was I mean, it wasn't a conscious thing, but in a way it kind of was the more I think about it. Instead of making a new box, so to speak, instead, let's reinforce this circle around the outside, and let's give that circle a voice. So that it's a not a new space quarantined, see what I did there, from all the other stuff going on inside, but rather represents everyone inside. So some systems have talked about having some sort of control room system, so to speak.
• 31:48
  We make jokes about the TARDIS because it's bigger on the inside, right, when our kids watch Doctor Who. Other systems talk about a control room like on Star Trek or something where everyone can watch what's happening. We talked about kind of the window in the attic that we had that people could see out of, that kind of sin. Instead of making a new person, I think what's happened is sort of giving voice to that outside circle gave life in a new way to the system as a whole contained in this one body. And that somehow feels like progress in a way that I don't understand.
• 32:44
  But also at the same time, I'm very aware that it would be very easy to have her, so to speak, to have her split off as someone new. And there's no shame in that happening, and there's nothing wrong with that happening. But if we as a system, I'm not saying for everybody, I am not saying what is right or wrong for everyone out there. I'm not saying for everybody. I'm saying for us, where we are with the level of safety and support that we have, we don't need someone new.
• 33:25
  And that can be a decision made collectively as a group, as a system, and it's possible because we have the resources internally and externally to figure things out and to meet our needs and to cope with things. It doesn't mean it's easy and it doesn't make all the hard things of life go away, but it means I'm really proud of us in a way for coming to a place where we are strong enough internally, together enough as a system, and connected enough to other safe people on the outside that we even had the choice to not create someone new. Because it was there, there was enough stressor, and there was enough stuff going wrong, and there was enough stuff that was hard that I think we came very, very close. Not intentionally, but you can feel it happening. And I think we were there, are there.
• 34:47
  But I also think that because this time, in now time, we are not alone, and we have support, and we have connection and we're learning to talk about things and because we choose to get better and choose healing that we also have choices for what that healing looks like for us. And for us, what is most important is staying together. And what is next most important is tackling this really, really hard work in therapy. So it's hard to jump into phase two with a new therapist but I really think we're ready and I really think we can do it and meeting her already I know that it's going to happen. We finally have a new therapist and it's time to do this part of the work.
• 35:53
  It takes swallowing our pride though a little bit, being okay in this way. We have fought for so hard and been so independent and so fierce to survive on our own that it's hard to trust those connections on the outside and it's hard to even trust the people on the inside that we really are in agreement on this and that we really can choose this and that we even have the choice because of all of those circumstances we have created for ourselves but that also come with the privilege of at least we have insurance and at least we had choices in therapists and at least we have a husband who is kind and at least we have friends who understand DID but are safe with that knowledge and that we have the support that we do. Those are amazing amazing things and gifts to our life and part of it comes from you and from this podcast and from having a venue where we could be so raw and authentic that it was safe enough to let some things out for real or having notebooks and computers that we could type into and let words flow out of so that we didn't have to carry around so much inside and some of it we could let go without losing anyone And really, it's not even some noble decision that we've made in this moment where I know we could have created someone new and didn't.
• 37:42
  It's that we're tired and things are already complicated and we already have all of us here. We don't need more to deal with or to start over again. Sometimes having new alters is something that happens and always what a system needs for itself whether it's conscious or not or intentional or not it's just trying to protect itself we know that we're not judging other people or new alters anywhere sometimes alters are new because we're just now meeting them so in that way we'll have new alters because we still have to get to know everyone and I'm not saying that people split off alters on purpose or that we are bad when we find new alters we haven't met yet it's not because we're wrong and I don't mean that in our case the trauma that's happened is our fault but I do mean that maybe the therapists maybe they're right when they tell us that being a system is what kept us alive. And maybe they're right when they tell us that we need connection present and to the present to be healthy and well in now time. And I think it requires some kind of humility to accept this and to reach out to others and to recognize that all of this, all of me, is me.
• 39:29
  But that means that the more awareness I gain, the more shame I feel intrinsically for having tried so hard at all the wrong things and for pushing away parts of myself because I didn't want to be me and didn't want the bad stuff to be mine and didn't want to stay there where things were so hard and gross and dangerous and harmful and awful. And while I can cognitively understand that those things were not my fault, it is very difficult to offer myself the same grace and mercy and compassion that I would offer to someone else. It is difficult to accept those pieces as part of me, as part of us, as me as part of them, all of us as part of one story. Especially when the story is raw and painful and uncomfortable. No wonder I didn't always know who I was when I was working that hard to not be me.
• 40:42
  And no wonder I was so exhausted from working that hard at not feeling anything. And no wonder I was so anxious when I couldn't really make my feelings go away because all of it was a part of me and all of those feelings were mine I don't know what's gonna happen in the world or with the virus or how bad it's going to get or when it will be over. I only know that the clouds cleared today and the sun came out. And I don't know how hard therapy is going to be now that we're really ready to start talking together as a system, cooperating and collaborating and communicating compassionately with ourselves and each other while staying connected with those who love us on the outside But I know that we finally, finally have a new therapist where we live who takes our insurance and says she can help. I don't know what will happen with our daughter or how long she will live or not.
• 42:12
  But I know that I have a safe family and that most of the time I'm a really good mom And then I have a husband who's kind and good and thinks he's funny. And new friends who don't lose me or leave me or shame me, and sometimes even celebrate me which teaches me a lot about how to treat myself and also my family That's what it feels like when you finally find a safe family even if you have to create it yourself like I did. And that's what it's like when you finally have friends who are good and safe and kind and real. It's like when you've been stuck in quarantine for two weeks, and it's been raining the whole time, And you finally get to go outside on a walk, and the sun comes out. So I don't think life is ever perfect.
• 43:41
  I don't think life ever gets easy for anyone. But I do think that we don't have to do it alone and I do think we have it in us to get through and I do think that even in really hard circumstances there's lots of good to find and maybe the more good we find the brighter it gets. So today, we started a new life, but not with a new altar, just as a system on the same page, speaking in therapy with a new therapist who says she can help. Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this.
• 45:08
  Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community at www.systemsspeak.com. We'll see you there.