Latest / No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women / Hard Hats and High Heels: One Woman's Journey

Transcript

Hard Hats and High Heels: One Woman's Journey · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hey, violets, welcome to the show.
• 0:42
  Mary: My dad was a pretty great dad.
• 0:43
  Mary: I was the first girl after three boys and he for sure doted on me.
• 0:48
  Mary: He was a doer.
• 0:50
  Mary: He built much of our house.
• 0:51
  Mary: He could fix nearly anything and he was a master of making do with whatever was at hand, kind of like a first-gen MacGyver.
• 0:59
  Mary: He also made the best dippy eggs Look that up if you're not from central Pennsylvania, usa.
• 1:05
  Mary: And he not my mom was the one that used the sewing machine.
• 1:09
  Mary: He almost always made me feel like I could do anything handy.
• 1:12
  Mary: He showed me how to paint a room and how to do simple carpentry.
• 1:16
  Mary: But one day, when I asked if I could learn how to change the oil in the car something back in the day most people did themselves he said that's too dirty for a girl.
• 1:27
  Mary: Um what?
• 1:27
  Mary: I was?
• 1:28
  Mary: A tomboy.
• 1:29
  Mary: I was often found climbing trees, running through the woods or repeatedly doing skin the cats on the swing set or, more likely, jumping off the swings, which led to a broken elbow, but that's a story for a different day.
• 1:41
  Mary: Anyway, the fact that I still remember my dad telling me, probably 40 years ago, that a standard task was too dirty for a girl means it made quite the impact.
• 1:51
  Mary: To this day, I haven't learned much about a car I never even changed a tire but I have painted rooms, I've installed a tile floor, changed a mower blade and figured out most of the simple issues that come with owning my own home.
• 2:04
  Mary: I think it was a combination of my dad encouraging me to learn those household fix-it skills and his opinion that there were actually some things that were too dirty for a girl to do.
• 2:15
  Mary: That fueled part of my fascination with the gender roles and career choices.
• 2:20
  Mary: For most of my life I've worked with young people either embarking on job training or navigating areas of interest in college majors.
• 2:26
  Mary: I can count on one hand how many of my high school girls chose vocational technical courses in the trades and in the college world, there were maybe 10 females for every 100 guys in STEM majors science, technology, engineering and math.
• 2:42
  Mary: I myself wish I had pursued a degree in biology instead of English, but there was no one that encouraged me in that direction, even though my grades in math and science were just as strong as English.
• 2:52
  Mary: Of the girls in STEM majors, I talked with many of them who felt like they never quite fit.
• 2:58
  Mary: They were keenly aware of being the one female in a class of 25 or 30 men, and they would tell stories of staying quiet or being overlooked during question and answer portions of the class, even when they knew they knew the answers.
• 3:13
  Mary: My guest today has navigated a career that includes jobs at totally opposite ends of the career spectrum.
• 3:19
  Mary: She has been both a model and a tradesperson, a union carpenter to be exact.
• 3:24
  Mary: In fact, I think it's a safe bet that there are more male models than there are female carpenters.
• 3:30
  Mary: But having experience in both of these areas has led to her current venture creating clothing specifically designed for women in the trades.
• 3:38
  Mary: I can tell you as a gardener, there are tools specifically created for females, but they're not easy to find, which in itself is fascinating because, on average, at least in the United States, there are probably more female home gardeners than male.
• 3:56
  Mary: Okay, before I go too much farther down the gender-specific career-role rabbit hole, let me introduce my guest so we can hear about her experiences in the world of work and how she came to focus on creating clothing specifically for women in the trades.
• 4:06
  Mary: Brenda she goes by Maxx Cumbie McGee is founder and owner of Gott Street Blues.
• 4:12
  Mary: She is a lifelong fashion model and union carpenter who began her journey when she was 10, both playing dress-up in her mom's clothes and also creating a construction site in her mother's garden with a red Tonka truck, which I love that that image.
• 4:28
  Mary: One of her biggest challenges as a woman in the trades was having properly fitting and functional work clothing.
• 4:34
  Mary: Maxx has brilliantly paired her experience in both industries to create a line of clothing for working women where the focus is fit.
• 4:42
  Mary: Launching in 2025 is the Pant, which does look pretty cool.
• 4:46
  Mary: It was designed with women's bodies in mind, showcasing features and functionality for women on the job.
• 4:52
  Mary: Welcome to no Shrinking Violets, Maxx.
• 4:55
  Maxx: Hi, thank you so much.
• 4:57
  Maxx: Thank you, I am excited to be here.
• 5:01
  Mary: Okay.
• 5:01
  Mary: So, as I commented in my intro, I am first struck that you were drawn to both dress up and playing or making a construction site in your mom's garden.
• 5:14
  Mary: So do you feel like you were really supported in doing whatever you wanted when you were a kid?
• 5:20
  Maxx: Yes, my mother wanted us to be able to make our own choices and I always thought that was, you know, kind of strange, because my girlfriends didn't have that right.
• 5:31
  Maxx: It was kind of a structured oh, this is the way you go.
• 5:34
  Maxx: And I was surprised that even happened, because I remember when my brother got that red dump truck I'm sitting there, it was Christmas time I got a baby in a buggy and this metal kitchen set and I'm like I don't want that, I don't want that, I want that truck.
• 5:57
  Maxx: So I remember my grandfather's like oh, but it's such a nice baby down below, I'm like man, I didn't want that thing.
• 6:01
  Maxx: I had my eye on that truck.
• 6:03
  Maxx: So my brother was a lot smaller than me growing up he's not now, but at that time.
• 6:09
  Maxx: So I would beat him up and just take it and give him the truck, you know, and I'd do my thing with this truck.
• 6:15
  Maxx: Because if you knew back then, those trucks were metal, they moved all kinds of great stuff, and so there was that part of me that I was this big tomboy, because my brother and I are a year and three months apart.
• 6:30
  Maxx: So that was my guy, that was my playmate.
• 6:31
  Maxx: We did everything together.
• 6:33
  Maxx: I remember running around the house, outside, in the yard, no shirts.
• 6:38
  Maxx: And I remember the day my mother said oh, you got to put a shirt on.
• 6:41
  Maxx: Why, johnny doesn't have a shirt on, why do?
• 6:45
  Maxx: I got to put a shirt on.
• 6:46
  Maxx: It was a fight.
• 6:47
  Maxx: We got in a fight.
• 6:48
  Maxx: She put it on me and took it off.
• 6:50
  Maxx: We were going back and forth and she explained you're a girl.
• 6:53
  Maxx: That's the first time I ever heard you're a girl, yeah, okay.
• 6:59
  Maxx: So she made me keep the shirt on.
• 7:01
  Maxx: I was not happy, right.
• 7:02
  Maxx: I had to be about four and a half going on five, I was getting ready to start school and she's probably afraid to take her shirt off at school.
• 7:10
  Maxx: And so it it just.
• 7:16
  Maxx: It was kind of natural for me to do both, because I liked pretty things as well and I, my mother, was that woman.
• 7:24
  Maxx: When she did dress up, she had the matching shoes, the gloves, she'd throw a scarf around her neck and you know, everything was just and I was like man, I like that, I want to look like that, right.
• 7:36
  Maxx: And when I tell you she had a brocade dress and the shoes were the same brocade fabric, it was like I want that, wow, right.
• 7:45
  Maxx: And it was orange and that was even better because it was gorgeous color and it was like, okay, so, playing around in her closet, she had her special closet in the guest room and I would sneak in there and throw those shoes on and my little heels in the middle of her shoes.
• 8:00
  Maxx: I thought she was going to, you know, like break my heels and throwing on these dresses, the hats, the gloves.
• 8:03
  Maxx: I going to you know, like freak my heels and throwing on these dresses, the hats, the gloves.
• 8:07
  Maxx: I was just, you know, I was just in wonderland.
• 8:10
  Maxx: But then there was this part of me that just wanted to go beat up everybody with my brother let's go play football, let's go play basketball, let's, you know, and I was extremely good at sports.
• 8:19
  Maxx: So he actually helped me hone my basketball skills and I I played Saturday morning basketball with only boys.
• 8:26
  Maxx: There was no other girls.
• 8:27
  Maxx: I played on the basketball team in junior high school.
• 8:31
  Maxx: I played on the.
• 8:34
  Maxx: By this time we had girls, so it was the women's.
• 8:38
  Maxx: You know, the girls basketball team in high school Played softball.
• 8:41
  Maxx: During the summer we would play touch football with, you know, all the guys in the neighborhood and stuff, and sometimes it ended up being tackle because you got me on something.
• 8:52
  Maxx: So that tomboy in me actually kind of led to that whole the garden construction site right.
• 8:57
  Maxx: But I did find in junior high school I don't know if they do aptitude tests anymore the only thing I scored 100 on was mechanical.
• 9:07
  Mary: Wow.
• 9:08
  Maxx: And that made the counselors and the vice principals say oh wait a minute, this girl's got something here, let's talk about it.
• 9:15
  Maxx: And I was terrible at algebra, didn't understand it.
• 9:19
  Maxx: What do you mean?
• 9:20
  Maxx: Y equals Z.
• 9:21
  Maxx: Yeah, that Didn't care't care.
• 9:23
  Maxx: Geometry I was the only person with their hand up.
• 9:26
  Maxx: Oh yeah, got it understood it.
• 9:28
  Maxx: Those circles, those diameters, the radius, this and understood it.
• 9:32
  Maxx: Nobody else understood it.
• 9:33
  Maxx: My teacher's like this is kind of interesting that you suck at algebra.
• 9:37
  Maxx: He was also my algebra teacher.
• 9:39
  Maxx: He said but you really understand geometry.
• 9:43
  Maxx: So they started gearing, you know, steering me towards architecture stuff, anything that was mechanical.
• 9:51
  Maxx: They were pushing me that way, which wasn't a bad thing, and I remember Mr Turner had me in the hallway.
• 9:57
  Maxx: He said you really need to consider being an architect.
• 9:59
  Maxx: He said I really think you have something here.
• 10:02
  Maxx: And so in high school we had an entire wing that had the motor shop in it.
• 10:09
  Maxx: The guys actually were rebuilding cars.
• 10:12
  Maxx: It was a huge, huge shop.
• 10:13
  Maxx: Then you had metal shop there.
• 10:16
  Maxx: The architecture drawing was there.
• 10:19
  Maxx: You had the art studios there.
• 10:21
  Maxx: So that was like this creative wing where you could actually work with your hands right.
• 10:25
  Maxx: I stayed in that wing.
• 10:26
  Maxx: I think I had two other classes outside of that wing, but I was in that wing and I did metal shop, loved making a metal toolbox and I learned how to weld.
• 10:36
  Maxx: I was on the stick weld and then the TIG weld and it was like I loved it.
• 10:42
  Maxx: I didn't like smelling smoky because, you know, I still wanted to be a girl and I just I love the architectural drawing.
• 10:50
  Maxx: I was really good at that.
• 10:51
  Maxx: I really enjoyed that and found out I actually got that from my father.
• 10:55
  Maxx: He did some architectural drawings that I didn't know about.
• 10:58
  Maxx: So my grandmother said, no, you didn't get this from your mom, you got this from your dad.
• 11:03
  Maxx: So I was like, okay.
• 11:04
  Maxx: And so growing up in the house, mom did everything Stripped floors, re-sanded them, she refinished, she did woodwork, she painted, she patched plaster.
• 11:15
  Maxx: There was no drywall, so my mother could I mean she would master it at patching up some plaster.
• 11:21
  Maxx: And so we learned all that.
• 11:23
  Maxx: All of us, all us kids, learned that from my mom.
• 11:26
  Maxx: And then she was an avid gardener.
• 11:28
  Maxx: We had the most beautiful just the most beautiful yard on the block and we couldn't play in it because if we kicked the ball in one of her gardens she'd be kill my plants and we're like, yeah, okay, we got to go.
• 11:40
  Maxx: But she allowed me to have a construction site, an inside garden, which was kind of cool and I would be there for hours and she would come check on me.
• 11:52
  Maxx: And this all kind of started when I got a conveyor belt for going to the grocery store with her.
• 11:56
  Maxx: She would take one of us every week because we were the runner Okay, this is down this aisle, get this this.
• 12:03
  Maxx: And she's up front.
• 12:04
  Maxx: You know we're bringing everything back to the curb.
• 12:06
  Maxx: It's a game, but we knew we got a gift at the end.
• 12:09
  Maxx: So you get to go to the toy section.
• 12:11
  Maxx: What do you want to buy?
• 12:11
  Maxx: Because there was actual toy sections in our grocery stores back in the day.
• 12:15
  Maxx: And I got this conveyor belt and she's looking at me like that's what you want?
• 12:20
  Maxx: You really want that, yes.
• 12:26
  Maxx: So I took that conveyor belt, I took that dump truck and I made a site.
• 12:28
  Maxx: I was moving bulbs, dirt, everything from one end of that garden to the other end of that garden and she would come out periodically and check on me to see if I was still there because I was so intent on getting this site running right.
• 12:41
  Maxx: So she was like okay, so that was you know something.
• 12:47
  Maxx: But it all kind of parlayed when I thought I wanted to go to college, didn't want to, and then realized and I realized at 12, I wanted to be a model.
• 12:56
  Maxx: So at 19, I told my mom, I said, you know, I really want to model.
• 13:02
  Maxx: And she said, yeah, well, I really want you to go take some finishing classes because you walk like a you know Tomboy.
• 13:09
  Maxx: She wasn't that quite that.
• 13:12
  Maxx: I mean, I walked heavy and she talked like a herd of cattle going across the stairs and she's like, oh my God, are you stomping?
• 13:21
  Maxx: No, I'm just walking, mom.
• 13:22
  Maxx: And so she's like you need to take finishing courses.
• 13:25
  Maxx: So I ended up at Austin's modeling and finishing school.
• 13:29
  Maxx: I don't even know if they had finishing schools anymore, but I ended up there for a year and a half graduated and I did.
• 13:38
  Maxx: I walked with books on top of my head to get my posture together and then I started my modeling career.
• 13:43
  Maxx: So I was around Detroit for until 23.
• 13:49
  Maxx: And then I moved here to Chicago and I've been here ever since and did okay as what they call straight size models, that's all skinny chicks.
• 13:58
  Maxx: But honey, when I became a plus size model it was on, I could eat, they fed us on the jobs and everything and I worked all the time and I was quite happy.
• 14:09
  Maxx: And I was older, so I was 34, still working.
• 14:17
  Maxx: And then I had started doing trade show modeling and I met a gentleman named Larry Cooper on the Anheuser-Busch booth and we became fast friends, just chatting, blah blah, blah.
• 14:31
  Maxx: One day I just told him how the booth was put together and he's looking at me, like how do you know that I'm looking at it, this one here, blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah.
• 14:35
  Maxx: And he's like okay.
• 14:37
  Maxx: So ended up having some female issues that I had to have surgery.
• 14:41
  Maxx: And if anybody knows, modeling is great, it looks fun, it's like this, but you know you get paid for that job, there is no insurance, there is no retirement, so you better figure it out, which is why most of us end up marrying rich men.
• 14:56
  Maxx: We like the nice things, we just don't have the money.
• 15:00
  Maxx: So I ended up having to take out a loan to get this surgery.
• 15:03
  Maxx: Oh, wow, money.
• 15:04
  Maxx: So I ended up having to take out a loan to get this surgery and my mom came up to take care of me.
• 15:06
  Maxx: I had a one bedroom apartment and she's sitting at my desk.
• 15:10
  Maxx: I'm laying on the couch and the phone rings and she answers the phone because I was going to get up and get it.
• 15:15
  Maxx: She said no, no, no, I got it.
• 15:16
  Maxx: She answers the phone and she's on the phone for about 10 minutes and she's yes, in this, yep, she can do that, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
• 15:24
  Maxx: Now, mind you, I'm 34 years old and she gets off of the phone.
• 15:29
  Maxx: I said well, who was that?
• 15:30
  Maxx: She said oh, that was your friend, larry Cooper.
• 15:33
  Maxx: I said okay, and she said, oh, by the way, you're going to be a carpenter.
• 15:36
  Maxx: I turned into that 12 year old girl.
• 15:41
  Maxx: Okay, mom, how do you, how do you tell your mother you're going to do what she just told you you're going to do?
• 15:46
  Maxx: So, okay, mom.
• 15:48
  Maxx: So it ended up once I got through my recovery time, larry had set up with a gentleman named Scott who owned a display house, because I they were in the trade show industry, so he takes me over to the union.
• 16:01
  Maxx: You could either do apprenticeship or somebody can help you get your card, long as you were working with a company and they were willing to train you.
• 16:10
  Maxx: So that's how I got in and did all my paperwork and everything First day on the job.
• 16:19
  Maxx: It was a big food show FMI or restaurant and I walk in, it's April of 1994.
• 16:25
  Maxx: And I'm in a pair of cute overalls just fashion overalls, jean overalls, little white shirt, had a red bandana tied around my head, my hair was curly and stuff, and had on a pair of gym shoes with a teeny, tiny pink toolbox and I had Tinker toys inside compared to what these guys were carrying.
• 16:44
  Maxx: So I didn't know what I was doing, but I became the, I became the show.
• 16:50
  Maxx: That day I must've had 20 guys passing by to see who's the chick on the booth.
• 16:57
  Maxx: I'm the only chick in the building Right.
• 17:02
  Mary: Yep, and you look fabulous, probably right.
• 17:05
  Maxx: I thought I was lovely.
• 17:06
  Maxx: And I'm sitting here and, mind you, I was probably about 40 pounds lighter, so nice shape and everything, and it's like okay.
• 17:18
  Maxx: So all these guys are looking at me and all this stuff around here and exactly what am I doing?
• 17:23
  Maxx: And next thing, I know it got a bit much for Larry and Larry stopped the whole booth and had a long conversation with these guys about who I was, what I was doing there and what wasn't going to happen.
• 17:33
  Maxx: So everything kind of settled down.
• 17:35
  Maxx: So over the years I learned quickly about what union did what.
• 17:41
  Maxx: There's five different unions down there.
• 17:44
  Maxx: I'm a carpenter.
• 17:45
  Maxx: I was only supposed to do carpenter work.
• 17:46
  Maxx: There were big arguments about carpenters doing electrician's work, electricians fussing at the carpenters or the plumbers or whatever.
• 17:54
  Maxx: It was just a big thing.
• 17:55
  Maxx: So you're standing down there with 99.9% men and you have to figure out one, how do you present yourself to these guys?
• 18:05
  Maxx: Two, how do you protect yourself from these guys?
• 18:09
  Maxx: And three, do you react to their behaviors or do you ignore their behaviors?
• 18:18
  Maxx: And so it was this learning process.
• 18:21
  Maxx: That was quick.
• 18:22
  Maxx: And the one thing I did know you never let anybody see you cry.
• 18:25
  Maxx: And I'm telling you there were things said to me that just brought.
• 18:28
  Maxx: I mean, I was just petrified and wanted to just ball and I would have to go in the women's bathroom and let it out and then get it together and come back out, or I could use this trash, foul mouth that I have.
• 18:42
  Maxx: My mother taught me, but she had a mouth on her and I realized real quickly if I defended myself with this mouth and let some of the things just fly out of it, it would make them back up.
• 18:57
  Maxx: So that became my defense mechanism, because you either had guys who really liked the fact that you were there and you were trying to make a living or you had the ones that just absolutely hated you.
• 19:08
  Maxx: They didn't want you there.
• 19:10
  Maxx: You invaded their space and I get that this is a male dominated space.
• 19:15
  Maxx: I get it and I'm not going to come in and try and change what you guys do and say, but I'm not going to let you attack me either.
• 19:24
  Maxx: Yeah, right, so if you want to tell your dirty jokes, I would just kind of ignore it because I hate to say it, but some of them were kind of funny, but they for the most part weren't bad.
• 19:37
  Maxx: There was just, you know, one or two that would just step over that line and then you'd have to go there.
• 19:43
  Maxx: So being the only woman was tough at times because you really had to find an ally in one of the guys you were working with.
• 19:50
  Maxx: And I knew when I was working with Larry I had nothing to worry about because he was there.
• 19:55
  Maxx: He was going to stop anything that happened.
• 19:57
  Maxx: But when I started working jobs where Larry wasn't there, it was like I got to find, you know, that guy that will stick up for me.
• 20:05
  Maxx: And I worked as hard as the guys did.
• 20:06
  Maxx: I did not slack.
• 20:07
  Maxx: I did not say, oh, I can't lift this or I can't do that.
• 20:12
  Maxx: You know I worked like they did and so there was a lot of respect that I did that and I had no problem with hard work.
• 20:19
  Maxx: That wasn't an issue.
• 20:21
  Maxx: My issue was don't treat me poorly because you just don't think I should be in your space.
• 20:28
  Maxx: Like you know, it belongs to you.
• 20:30
  Maxx: So that part of the trade thing was a little difficult and the other problem for a lot of guys I was moving up really fast.
• 20:38
  Maxx: So I got offered hey, you want to come work in the building?
• 20:42
  Maxx: So McCormick Place being, you know, one of the oldest and biggest convention centers.
• 20:47
  Maxx: We had two buildings at the time and the third building was starting to be built and they said do you want to come work in the shop?
• 20:54
  Maxx: Well, I found out that's a coveted thing and a lot of guys aspire to doing that, but they couldn't get in, for whatever reason.
• 21:03
  Maxx: And then they you know of course it became oh, she's sleeping with somebody.
• 21:06
  Mary: Oh yeah.
• 21:07
  Maxx: You know, here's my thing.
• 21:08
  Maxx: I'm not sleeping with anybody because that's a job.
• 21:11
  Maxx: I already got a job.
• 21:14
  Maxx: I'm not doing two jobs, right, I'm not doing two jobs.
• 21:17
  Maxx: So I was like, yeah, okay guys.
• 21:19
  Maxx: So I got to work in the building.
• 21:20
  Maxx: So I was like, yeah, okay guys.
• 21:21
  Maxx: So I got to work in the building.
• 21:22
  Maxx: I learned how to build cabinets I am the laminate queen, I can laminate anything and learned how to do counters, learned how to work with these tools.
• 21:31
  Maxx: I'll never forget the D-handled router.
• 21:36
  Maxx: The guy was showing me how to use it.
• 21:37
  Maxx: We were actually trimming out maple, which is a very hard wood, and when it has that, you know that curl, and it's been.
• 21:45
  Maxx: I forget what they call it, but I hit it.
• 21:47
  Mary: Oh yeah.
• 21:48
  Maxx: And it just it's like oh my God, what was that?
• 21:51
  Maxx: It's like just don't move, that happens, right.
• 21:56
  Maxx: So it hits that knot.
• 21:57
  Maxx: And so this one time I hit a knot, I was cool and everything, and then I got to the end but my arms were exhausted because that machine itself was heavy and I took it and swung it back with one hand.
• 22:09
  Maxx: I thought it looked cool when I did that Right, yes, you can hold it with one hand.
• 22:14
  Maxx: But I hit the cord while it was still spinning and the whole thing went.
• 22:17
  Maxx: It hurt the cord and it was like, yeah, you just ruined this tool for the next week and I was like it can't.
• 22:25
  Maxx: So found out, yeah, it looks cool, but don't let the router go.
• 22:28
  Maxx: So it was fun working in the shop, but what I found I didn't like.
• 22:33
  Maxx: Nine to five you go in at eight o'clock, you got off at four, so it was like a nine to five.
• 22:37
  Maxx: I didn't like that because the show floor gave you this freedom.
• 22:40
  Maxx: Because the show floor gave you this freedom, you put a show in it.
• 22:47
  Maxx: Depending on how big it was, it could take you seven days.
• 22:48
  Maxx: So you're I mean you're cranking out hours left and right, but then you got the time off that the show was running, so that could have been anywhere from three to four days, right.
• 22:54
  Maxx: Then you would come back in, usually late afternoon, early evening, and start taking the show out afternoon, early evening and start taking the show out, and you usually had to have the show out within two to three days, sometimes just, you know, day and a half, whatever, depending on what was coming in next.
• 23:11
  Maxx: So you made a lot of money, you got a lot of hours towards your insurance.
• 23:18
  Maxx: You had to, you know, always keep track of that and I just liked that freedom of not having to always be there.
• 23:24
  Maxx: And so at the same time I was still doing some modeling.
• 23:26
  Maxx: On those days I wasn't at McCormick, I was out modeling.
• 23:31
  Maxx: So it was fun.
• 23:32
  Maxx: And sometimes I would come to work with makeup on at the break of a show and they're like what did you do today?
• 23:36
  Maxx: I had a photo shoot.
• 23:38
  Maxx: Oh, it was, you know, it was kind of funny, but that went on for four and a half years.
• 23:44
  Maxx: And then all of a sudden I get a call from my local president, frank Libby, and he says hey, do you want to try being a steward?
• 23:53
  Maxx: Well, if you thought the job in the shop was coveted.
• 23:56
  Maxx: Oh my God, the steward position was like creme de la creme of any job down there and it was like these guys made tons of money because they were always at work, you know, they were rolling the clock half the time and they had scooters that they got to ride around on all day and they had their names on them and stuff.
• 24:17
  Maxx: And I'm like, oh yeah, I can do that, I get my name on a scooter.
• 24:19
  Maxx: So I started doing that and boy did I catch it.
• 24:28
  Maxx: The guys were just pissed.
• 24:28
  Maxx: They were just pissed because that was a spot that they felt I did not deserve because I hadn't been there long enough, right.
• 24:35
  Maxx: But I understood what was going on.
• 24:36
  Maxx: They were killing two birds with one stone.
• 24:39
  Maxx: I was a woman and I was a black woman and it was like they never had a black person in that position, definitely never had a woman.
• 24:48
  Maxx: So let's just, you know, let's see she works hard, let's see if she can handle this.
• 24:52
  Maxx: You got a woman who has underlying anger issues, who has a trashy mouth.
• 24:59
  Maxx: You bet I can do that job.
• 25:01
  Maxx: You bet Because you know I'm going to confront you.
• 25:05
  Maxx: So it was a very confrontational job and it was to stop exhibitors at the time from doing any of our work.
• 25:13
  Maxx: All the jobs down there at the time had to be done by union employees.
• 25:18
  Maxx: So if you were caught doing a booth setup and you didn't have a union person in there, we had to stop that job.
• 25:26
  Maxx: That meant to shut it down temporarily, take them to the desk, get union labor and then have the labor come in and do the job.
• 25:34
  Maxx: So it could get really at times.
• 25:37
  Maxx: You know the exhibitors didn't like that and so it was very strict and my dear co-worker, george Suzanne at the time God rest his soul he was like okay, I'm training you.
• 25:51
  Maxx: So I'm telling me you know, this is what happens.
• 25:54
  Maxx: You got to be careful and you know they'll do our work.
• 25:57
  Maxx: And as he's saying work, I'm off the scooter, going into a booth and I'm like hey, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 26:02
  Maxx: He's sitting there like okay.
• 26:05
  Maxx: So when Frank called, hey, how's she doing?
• 26:07
  Maxx: He said I ain't, that's a trainer, do anything.
• 26:09
  Maxx: Pretty good at it.
• 26:10
  Maxx: So I ended up being a steward for 21 years Wow, I was only there 26, but I was a steward for 21.
• 26:18
  Maxx: And it was.
• 26:21
  Maxx: It was a great job, but it had its challenges.
• 26:24
  Maxx: I would run into, of course, union people that didn't want me there.
• 26:30
  Maxx: But I also ran into exhibitors, male exhibitors, that didn't want me there.
• 26:35
  Maxx: How dare I tell them?
• 26:37
  Maxx: They had to do something.
• 26:38
  Maxx: So I remember this one guy and he was Middle Eastern and I'm sure it was part of his culture as well as the whole misogyny thing.
• 26:46
  Maxx: He told me to get away from his booth and go do my job.
• 26:50
  Maxx: I said, excuse me.
• 26:51
  Maxx: So I went and got my chief steward.
• 26:54
  Maxx: I said I want you to hear this.
• 26:55
  Maxx: I said say to him what you just said.
• 26:57
  Maxx: I told her to get away from here and go do her job.
• 27:00
  Maxx: He said she, she is doing her job.
• 27:01
  Maxx: That's her job to tell you to stop Now.
• 27:04
  Maxx: I'm telling you to stop Now.
• 27:05
  Maxx: What do you want to say?
• 27:05
  Maxx: So it became a big thing.
• 27:07
  Maxx: So we realized, hey, let's tag team.
• 27:10
  Maxx: So when he ran into issues because women started coming in as exhibitors and what they do to him, they'd start crying.
• 27:18
  Maxx: Oh, I told myself.
• 27:20
  Maxx: I said I understand the tear thing, but I would walk over to him and say you can't do that.
• 27:26
  Maxx: I'm sorry.
• 27:28
  Maxx: I know you're trying to get him to back off.
• 27:30
  Maxx: I said but you can't do that.
• 27:31
  Maxx: So I need you to take a breath and understand this is what you have to do.
• 27:35
  Maxx: So that was fine, then I can get the stubborn man and he'd come over right.
• 27:40
  Maxx: So he had these guys one time that were.
• 27:41
  Maxx: So they were just young, they were, you know, that energy, that young buck energy kind of thing, and he had prematurely grayed.
• 27:49
  Maxx: So I guess they just figured out this old dude right, and I'm laughing.
• 27:53
  Maxx: It's like I can't get these guys to do anything.
• 27:57
  Maxx: So I did, I used my sexuality, I unbuttoned the button on my shirt, went to the bottom of the ladder, looked up hey guys, you really got to get labor.
• 28:08
  Maxx: They were like, oh, hey, hi.
• 28:11
  Maxx: I said yeah, you got to go get some labor.
• 28:14
  Maxx: We got to put some labor on this boot.
• 28:15
  Maxx: He said really.
• 28:16
  Maxx: I said yeah.
• 28:17
  Maxx: He said well, how many?
• 28:18
  Maxx: I said four.
• 28:19
  Maxx: I just said it to see if I could get away with four.
• 28:23
  Maxx: Then went and got four guys and my chief steward is like, oh my God, how'd you do that?
• 28:29
  Maxx: I said breasts, they work.
• 28:30
  Maxx: So you know, I used it, I used what I had.
• 28:35
  Maxx: So you know, sometimes you know you have to realize sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it was.
• 28:43
  Maxx: But it was this kind of give or take on the job and just so people know, it wasn't always fun and games.
• 28:49
  Maxx: I have gotten in situations where I was threatened that I could not work on a job unless I went back to an exhibitor's hotel.
• 28:57
  Maxx: I had that happen a couple of times.
• 29:00
  Maxx: One guy was so egregious with his behavior that I went and got the foreman.
• 29:06
  Maxx: Then I went and got the general foreman.
• 29:09
  Maxx: Then he went and got the company that we were working for and got their supervisor, and they all came to the booth and told him you can't do that, you cannot do this to her and you're threatening her and we're not going to have.
• 29:25
  Maxx: And they put him out.
• 29:25
  Maxx: He couldn't come back into the trade show.
• 29:27
  Maxx: So the thing was now he had to tell his company why he couldn't come back in.
• 29:33
  Maxx: Yeah, so there were times that I had these allies.
• 29:36
  Maxx: But I mean there were guys.
• 29:38
  Maxx: I had a guy smack me on my butt so hard it stunned me.
• 29:41
  Maxx: Oh wow, in the middle of a break at the auto show I'm working on this booth and I was bending over getting something out of my lunchbox and I mean he just bolloped me with this.
• 29:53
  Maxx: But what stopped me was the look in his eye, because I was getting ready to go there.
• 30:00
  Maxx: It was the look in his eyes that told he almost had this crazy look.
• 30:06
  Maxx: Yeah, I did that and I'm like, yeah, this is the guy you don't mess with because you don't know what he's capable of, right.
• 30:12
  Mary: Yeah.
• 30:13
  Maxx: But because I was friends with the people on that booth for years and had worked that booth that he was never allowed to come back, worked that booth that he was never allowed to come back.
• 30:23
  Maxx: Once he was gone, he was gone.
• 30:24
  Maxx: Yeah, so I know something was said, but it's when stuff like that happens that stuns you into silence.
• 30:34
  Maxx: Don't feel guilty about it, Because I did for a while and I really had to realize it's not you that just really caught me off guard that he would do that in front of everybody and be so open.
• 30:45
  Maxx: And so as more women started coming down, the electricians actually had a few women, but then there was a lot of women starting to come down, so there was a little bit more.
• 30:55
  Maxx: You know somebody you could go talk to right.
• 30:59
  Maxx: Something happened, I learned.
• 31:01
  Maxx: You know you have to speak up.
• 31:03
  Maxx: You cannot let harassment go on.
• 31:06
  Maxx: You cannot settle it by yourself.
• 31:08
  Maxx: You have to tell, and tell loudly if you need to.
• 31:13
  Maxx: So I mean, I think it was fresno in 20, 2017.
• 31:20
  Maxx: There was a, a female carpenter, killed on the job because this guy did not want her there.
• 31:27
  Maxx: He had been harassing her, harassing her, harassing her, and she didn't tell anybody.
• 31:31
  Maxx: She told her family members, but she said I'm not going to let him run me off the job.
• 31:35
  Maxx: But she never told a foreman or a supervisor, nothing or nothing.
• 31:44
  Maxx: And the day she died he ran up behind her and hit her over the head with a pipe and continued to hit her until everybody just ran from the site and jumped him to stop.
• 31:52
  Maxx: But they said she actually died with that first blow.
• 31:55
  Maxx: That's how angry he was.
• 31:57
  Maxx: And so I tell that story to younger women that I don't care who it is, you tell.
• 32:04
  Maxx: You tell someone Whether they help you or not, but you make sure you told.
• 32:10
  Maxx: I just interviewed my girlfriend's mother, who was 81 years old.
• 32:15
  Maxx: She was the first woman engineer at the water department I shouldn't say the first woman, but she was the first Black woman and she told me about all her harassment and she said all I can offer you is you tell everybody, because if you tell everybody they're going to stop.
• 32:33
  Maxx: She said I don't care how mad they get, because if something happens to you now, they're going to go to that person.
• 32:38
  Maxx: So you tell everybody.
• 32:40
  Maxx: You never keep that to yourself.
• 32:42
  Maxx: And I think that's the best advice you can give any young girl who goes into the trades right or any job where you are.
• 32:49
  Maxx: You know the minority on the job, gender-wise.
• 32:53
  Maxx: Don't let them do that to you Tell.
• 32:57
  Maxx: And so I learned to use my voice and just be loud.
• 33:00
  Maxx: I actually come from the original loud family.
• 33:03
  Maxx: I think Saturday Night Live got it from us because we all talk loud, so my voice is so loud I could.
• 33:11
  Maxx: Just you would hear me across the show floor and that was no small space.
• 33:15
  Maxx: I mean I could literally stop that place with my voice.
• 33:18
  Maxx: And I had one guy one day.
• 33:20
  Maxx: He just decided to grab my arm, yeah, and I screamed at him to never, ever touch me again.
• 33:26
  Maxx: I mean it got silent and it was like holy, he's like I didn't touch her.
• 33:32
  Maxx: I just I just poked her with my finger.
• 33:34
  Maxx: I said you grabbed my arm.
• 33:37
  Maxx: I said you're lying.
• 33:39
  Maxx: You grabbed my arm.
• 33:40
  Maxx: I said there's enough cameras around here that we can go rolling back.
• 33:43
  Maxx: So protect yourself as a woman on a job site when you're dealing with mostly men.
• 33:49
  Maxx: And so, with all that I'm saying, I just you know, I did it for 26 years.
• 33:56
  Maxx: I loved my job, I enjoyed doing it.
• 34:00
  Maxx: Then the pandemic hits and it was kind of funny because I remember telling my boss.
• 34:04
  Maxx: I said, hey, you know, we got the housework coming in and there was a lot of Asian exhibitors right and I had been reading about this goings on, this virus in China.
• 34:15
  Maxx: I said what are we going to do about that?
• 34:16
  Maxx: And I remember the chief steward was like you're worried about that.
• 34:19
  Maxx: I said we should all be worried about that.
• 34:21
  Maxx: I said I understand, I read other papers that you guys don't read.
• 34:25
  Maxx: I'm telling you it's coming and so, sure enough, just got the auto show out.
• 34:31
  Maxx: I was finishing up another show and I got a call that hey, we're shutting everything down.
• 34:37
  Maxx: I said what do you mean?
• 34:38
  Maxx: He said there's no housewares, there's no, nothing.
• 34:40
  Maxx: Everything is shut down.
• 34:41
  Maxx: So that was March of 2020.
• 34:44
  Maxx: And I had turned 60, march 7th, and that also allowed me to have full benefits if I wanted to retire early.
• 34:53
  Maxx: I could retire at 60.
• 34:54
  Maxx: So, of course, I was in the same position as everybody else, right?
• 34:59
  Maxx: Nobody knew what was going on, nobody knew how long we were all going to be in the house I'm trying to figure out how to pay bills Just got a new puppy, so I got this pandemic puppy and it's like I can't even take him out for a walk.
• 35:10
  Maxx: That's the big guy you saw walking around and it's like what do you do?
• 35:15
  Maxx: So I realized you need to go ahead and retire, so you can, you know, keep your house.
• 35:25
  Maxx: For, for christ's sake, how many guys lost their houses, I can't even tell you.
• 35:27
  Maxx: So it ended up I, I filled out the papers and my husband decided I'm gonna go ahead and mail them forward.
• 35:32
  Maxx: I was like you know that part of you that's just not ready, yeah, to drop them in the mailbox.
• 35:39
  Maxx: And so I looked at him.
• 35:40
  Maxx: I said, well, what am I gonna do?
• 35:41
  Maxx: He said you're gonna start that company you've been talking about for 20 years.
• 35:48
  Maxx: And the funny thing about it, I knew I needed clothes that first year because I was wearing men's stuff, trying to find boots, trying to find everything.
• 35:58
  Maxx: I wore men's work boots because there were no women's work boots.
• 36:02
  Maxx: So you know, I'm a size 10, so a size 8 would fit me in men's, but they were too wide so I had to double up my sweat socks.
• 36:09
  Maxx: That is the most uncomfortable feeling all day long, walking, going up and down ladders and everything because your feet start shifting.
• 36:16
  Maxx: It's just horrible.
• 36:17
  Maxx: So your feet start hurting.
• 36:20
  Maxx: Then the clothes I had on, a pair of coveralls with a jacket, took the jacket off because I had on all these layers.
• 36:28
  Maxx: It was cold outside, it was cold inside and I'm up on a 16-foot ladder.
• 36:33
  Maxx: Well, mind you, the crotch is at my knees because these things are so ill-fitting.
• 36:39
  Maxx: The pants are under my feet.
• 36:41
  Maxx: I got them rolled but apparently they came undone because as I'm coming down I step on the pants.
• 36:47
  Maxx: It's dangerous, right, yeah, I start going backwards, grab at the ladder, then of course, the ladder kind of lifts up and then I'm just like a cat because I'm going down and trying to hold on, broke up my nails, whatever, and I'm like, oh my God, this is dangerous.
• 37:04
  Maxx: Yeah, these clothes are dangerous.
• 37:07
  Maxx: And so I knew then I need clothes to fit.
• 37:10
  Maxx: And if you wore men's pants, if they fit your waist, they're not going to, you're not even going to get them up on your hip.
• 37:15
  Maxx: If they fit your hip, then you had a mile wide gap in the back from your butt to your waist and it's like, okay, so this isn't working.
• 37:24
  Maxx: Then I tried plus size women's shirts.
• 37:25
  Maxx: I don't know who they were making those for.
• 37:27
  Maxx: They fit my shoulder somewhat, but then the arm stopped mid forearm and I'm like, okay, what would be big, short arm people, right.
• 37:38
  Maxx: And then of course all the shirts opened up at the bus line so that gave the guy something that he can talk about on the job.
• 37:45
  Maxx: And it was like just ill-fitting clothes.
• 37:48
  Maxx: So I literally sat down and started designing clothes and how I would make them and what I would have on them and all these things.
• 37:55
  Maxx: And so that was late 94, early 95.
• 37:59
  Maxx: Yeah, came up with a name.
• 38:02
  Maxx: My best friend from back home, we called it.
• 38:05
  Maxx: She called it God Street because that's the street she lived on.
• 38:07
  Maxx: We had in blue for blue collar, blue jeans, right, had all the paperwork done back then, and then I got so busy at work I just didn't have time.
• 38:16
  Maxx: Oh yeah, and I enjoyed my job and I needed the benefits right, so I ended up putting it on the back burner.
• 38:24
  Maxx: It did not come back about until 2020.
• 38:27
  Maxx: Again, did all the paperwork, legal work, had a cousin to the logo and then I sat there because one I couldn't go outside.
• 38:37
  Mary: Yeah.
• 38:39
  Maxx: We really didn't go out, I think until like later 2021, where they started to open up everything and people.
• 38:46
  Maxx: I was nervous.
• 38:47
  Maxx: I had a dear friend pass away from COVID, so I was very nervous about going out and during the time of COVID I started trading stocks.
• 38:57
  Mary: Oh yeah.
• 38:58
  Maxx: And I met this young lady and now this is that boomer thing in me, skeptical.
• 39:04
  Maxx: She messages me through the trading site and she's like hey, if you need anything, I'm here, blah, blah, blah, I'll help you out.
• 39:13
  Maxx: I'm like, who is this girl?
• 39:15
  Maxx: Why is she trying to contact me?
• 39:17
  Maxx: You know, that's the skeptical boomer thing.
• 39:19
  Maxx: And she was a lot younger than me and her name was Shima Strickland and she's a, a wonderful trader, taught me a lot of things about trading and we have not met to this day but we still talk every.
• 39:32
  Maxx: Okay, I know her kids, I talk with her kids, I'm Auntie Max and all that stuff and but I found out she said what's going on with your business?
• 39:41
  Maxx: She just casually asked one day.
• 39:41
  Maxx: I said, well, nothing, it's just like well, why is that?
• 39:42
  Maxx: Because I don't know what else, I don't know what to do, I don't know with your business.
• 39:44
  Maxx: She just casually asked one day.
• 39:45
  Maxx: I said, well, nothing, she's like well, why?
• 39:46
  Maxx: I said because I don't know what else, I don't know what to do, I don't know how to start.
• 39:49
  Maxx: And she's like she said okay.
• 39:51
  Maxx: I said, well, I got drawings of what I want to make.
• 39:54
  Maxx: She said okay.
• 39:54
  Maxx: She said you need a pattern maker.
• 39:56
  Maxx: I need a who.
• 39:57
  Maxx: She said can you make patterns?
• 40:00
  Maxx: I said no, I can't make patterns.
• 40:01
  Maxx: She said then you need a pattern maker.
• 40:02
  Maxx: She said you know, I have a degree in fashion.
• 40:05
  Maxx: I wanted to be a fashion designer and then I realized I didn't.
• 40:13
  Mary: I was like okay.
• 40:13
  Maxx: So you know, it's kind of funny how the universe works right Together with somebody and you really don't know the reason.
• 40:16
  Maxx: And then you find out this reason and so we had just been great friends and she's been extremely supportive.
• 40:23
  Maxx: So I started looking up pattern makers and found Social Herrera Shear.
• 40:28
  Maxx: She's called the Chicago Pattern Maker.
• 40:30
  Maxx: We have been working together since summer of 2022.
• 40:35
  Maxx: And we came up with this design.
• 40:39
  Maxx: We've had to do revisions, all this stuff.
• 40:42
  Maxx: She got me a manufacturer.
• 40:43
  Maxx: The prototype looked amazing, samples not so much, and it was like what happened?
• 40:52
  Maxx: Something's off.
• 40:53
  Maxx: I found out he didn't follow the pattern, right?
• 40:54
  Maxx: I was like, yeah, because he made denim.
• 40:55
  Maxx: So I guess he just figured I can just make them anyway, she'll accept it.
• 40:58
  Maxx: No, she won't, right?
• 40:59
  Maxx: So then he ghosted me.
• 41:03
  Maxx: Eight months of being ghosted, he ghosted me, he ghosted her.
• 41:08
  Maxx: He would not call anybody.
• 41:10
  Maxx: It was like he had a lot of stuff going on.
• 41:12
  Maxx: My thing is just tell me you can't do it.
• 41:15
  Maxx: Yeah, let me come pick up all my fabric and notions and what have you?
• 41:19
  Maxx: So in this process I'm learning.
• 41:22
  Maxx: Okay, there's a lot of things you don't know.
• 41:25
  Maxx: You think you know right.
• 41:27
  Maxx: So I didn't want to source out of the country.
• 41:29
  Maxx: I am a union girl from childhood.
• 41:32
  Maxx: My dad was UAW.
• 41:34
  Maxx: I'm union.
• 41:35
  Maxx: I'm not trying to go out of the country and go to China, indonesia, wherever they're doing stuff right, stuff right.
• 41:48
  Maxx: And I said I know they don't have union apparel makers here, but you can have it made in America at least.
• 41:50
  Maxx: And the unions understood that If it's made in America they don't have any qualms about something right.
• 41:57
  Maxx: And there is no work clothes really that's made here 100%.
• 42:01
  Maxx: A lot of them will ship it out and they do partial stuff or they do most of it, and then they bring it in and they stick a label in it.
• 42:09
  Maxx: They'll put the label in here and then they'll say made in America or finished in America.
• 42:13
  Maxx: Right, it's like come on, guys, and then they'll say, oh, it's globally sourced for the fabrics, the notions, all that stuff.
• 42:21
  Maxx: So I'm trying to do it here and I'm finding it to be challenging to find a manufacturer that actually can work in this denim.
• 42:30
  Maxx: So it's a 12 ounce denim, it's a little heavy and the pockets are.
• 42:37
  Maxx: I mean, they're there, they're in spots that you know are running over seams and the depth of the pockets are running into another pocket, running into the knee pad pocket and there's a lot of components on these pants and the people who said they could make them actually cannot.
• 42:53
  Maxx: So I am now on my third manufacturer.
• 42:56
  Mary: Oh my gosh.
• 42:57
  Maxx: Yes, it's dragging out and I'm saying to myself I got to get these.
• 43:01
  Maxx: You know something on the market.
• 43:03
  Maxx: So I am now.
• 43:05
  Maxx: I found a younger guy.
• 43:07
  Maxx: He worked for Levi's for years and he's like I can do these pants.
• 43:12
  Maxx: He said we might have to tweak some stuff.
• 43:13
  Maxx: He's also a pattern maker of 40 years, so never been to Portland.
• 43:18
  Maxx: I mean, you know, I'm going to go up that way.
• 43:21
  Maxx: And I told him I said I know it's serial killer country, I get it, you know.
• 43:24
  Maxx: I said I know it's serial killer country, I get it.
• 43:25
  Maxx: You know, I watch enough criminal minds to know they like to go up in the Northwest.
• 43:29
  Mary: He's like okay whatever I have a feeling you can take care of yourself, Max, I think you can.
• 43:36
  Maxx: I don't take something with me, At least it's going to be a big fight before anything happens.
• 43:40
  Maxx: So it's like this find your tribe.
• 43:43
  Maxx: I was told that by a gentleman in New York when I went to this convention.
• 43:47
  Maxx: He said you got to find your tribe, you got to find who does what you do.
• 43:51
  Maxx: So with the whole, oh my God, I don't have anything.
• 43:57
  Maxx: I don't have a product on the market I am finding.
• 44:00
  Maxx: Talking to there's some wonderful women out here who have been in apparel all their life, Right.
• 44:06
  Maxx: Talking to there's some wonderful women out here who have been in apparel all their life, right, and they're saying it's okay, because you don't want to put another piece of crap on the market.
• 44:11
  Maxx: Can I ask you this how many sizes do you have in your closet?
• 44:16
  Maxx: You're asking me, I'm asking you when it comes to your how many different sizes do?
• 44:22
  Mary: you have oh, I probably right now have three different sizes.
• 44:25
  Maxx: Okay, in the 80s they started what they call vanity sizing.
• 44:29
  Maxx: Yes, there used to be standard size guy right.
• 44:34
  Maxx: And then in the 80s they decided to make rich women feel better about themselves by putting a smaller size in a larger size girl so say it's a 12, 12, they made it a 10 or an 8.
• 44:46
  Maxx: Yep, these women are ecstatic, they're gonna buy it.
• 44:50
  Maxx: Oh, my god, I'm a size 8.
• 44:51
  Maxx: You ain't been an 8 since you were 16.
• 44:54
  Maxx: They, they made you feel that way.
• 44:58
  Maxx: So then that's what happened the standard sizing guy got blown apart.
• 45:02
  Maxx: So all these companies have their own size guides, right.
• 45:05
  Maxx: So when it came time for me to make mine, it was like what fit me the best, that's what the pattern maker, social, said, what fits you the best, and let's work with that.
• 45:15
  Maxx: So I had an hourglass figure when I was coming up not perfect Barbie, but close.
• 45:21
  Maxx: So I picked all these designers that five designers that worked for me, and then we kind of worked God Street size guide to go with that.
• 45:32
  Maxx: And so it was interesting when I did my first run of samples and I had my coworkers come over because we had a big fit party man, they were not happy that they were in a 16 or higher and I'm like don't worry about it, it is just my sample size, don't worry about it.
• 45:53
  Maxx: Right, and I know why.
• 45:55
  Maxx: They were upset because of the vanity sizing for years and then stretching your work pants.
• 46:01
  Maxx: Stretching denim is really not a good thing, not for work.
• 46:04
  Maxx: Whatever you want it for fashion, that's fine, but when you're working one, it wears out faster because the minute you start wearing stretch it starts to break down.
• 46:14
  Maxx: It breaks down when it's getting washed.
• 46:16
  Maxx: It wears In the friction areas.
• 46:18
  Maxx: It wears away faster.
• 46:20
  Maxx: You can see it just peeling by day one.
• 46:22
  Maxx: You can see little peels, and so I try and explain to them.
• 46:28
  Maxx: If you buy a quality, 100% cotton pant, you won't have to buy 10 of those stretch pants.
• 46:34
  Mary: Well, that's what Levi's used to be right.
• 46:36
  Mary: That's why I still have a pair of the button fly 100% cotton.
• 46:40
  Mary: They don't fit me anymore, but I have hope.
• 46:42
  Mary: But that's why they lasted for decades, because they were made of that tough cotton denim.
• 46:49
  Maxx: Yes, let me ask you this Mary, do you remember breaking a man?
• 46:51
  Maxx: Oh yeah, do you remember what it felt like when you were broken in and you were like this is my favorite thing about my whole eternity, you know?
• 47:00
  Maxx: And it's like women don't know that now?
• 47:03
  Maxx: No, because we don't have 100% cotton.
• 47:07
  Maxx: So when I started making these samples and they're like man, these are kind of stiff I said yeah, because they're rigid denim.
• 47:13
  Maxx: First of all, I said you need to wash them.
• 47:14
  Maxx: I said then you got to go back old school, turn them inside out, throw them in the washer two or three times before you wore them, so they softened up.
• 47:23
  Maxx: I, before you wore them, so they softened up.
• 47:23
  Maxx: I said but it takes you at least was it good, six weeks, three months to break me in?
• 47:28
  Maxx: Good, but I mean that was wearing them all the time.
• 47:31
  Maxx: There's just nothing like a pair of good broken in.
• 47:33
  Maxx: So I'm trying to get back to that, trying to make sure the fit is correct.
• 47:40
  Maxx: One of my slogans is the focus is the fit, because I know what it's like to buy something online.
• 47:46
  Maxx: You get it.
• 47:47
  Maxx: I'm sorry, when did I wear a 7X?
• 47:55
  Maxx: Because I'm wearing a 4X or a 3X and I can't even get my arm in it.
• 47:58
  Maxx: So I needed a 7X.
• 47:59
  Maxx: And then I realized you have Asian sizing, uk sizing and then you have US sizing and sometimes they blend them all together.
• 48:12
  Maxx: I was sent on a job for a fit model for a union uniform company and she said they can't find anybody.
• 48:22
  Maxx: Could you please go?
• 48:22
  Maxx: Your measurements look like they should fit Okay, so I go.
• 48:26
  Maxx: Pants they were just slightly big, but they worked.
• 48:30
  Maxx: They were happy.
• 48:31
  Maxx: The waist was just slightly big.
• 48:33
  Maxx: They were like we can live with this.
• 48:35
  Maxx: It was the shirt, mary.
• 48:36
  Maxx: I put on this shirt, honey.
• 48:38
  Maxx: I thought I was in a straight jacket.
• 48:39
  Maxx: It was white and I'm standing there, I couldn't move and it was killing my boobs and if somebody had poked that button it would have shot your eye out.
• 48:50
  Maxx: That's how tight it was.
• 48:51
  Maxx: And so the head person comes in.
• 48:52
  Maxx: She's like oh, that's not going to work.
• 48:54
  Maxx: I said this ain't going to work on nobody.
• 48:55
  Maxx: I'm in my mid 60s at this point.
• 48:57
  Maxx: I don't care, hire me, hire me, I don't care.
• 49:00
  Maxx: You know, models used to have to take everything.
• 49:01
  Maxx: Oh yeah.
• 49:02
  Maxx: So I said ain't nobody going to wear this?
• 49:05
  Maxx: I said who designed this nightmare?
• 49:07
  Maxx: I said this is like a straitjacket, so it's tight in my bust, the shoulders and the arms, and then it's boxy down at the bottom in the waist area.
• 49:17
  Maxx: I'm like who did this?
• 49:18
  Maxx: So the woman said well, you know, that's a size guy that's been around for 30 years.
• 49:22
  Maxx: I said well, you know that's a size guide that's been around for 30 years.
• 49:24
  Maxx: I said no, ma'am.
• 49:25
  Maxx: No, ma'am, it hasn't.
• 49:27
  Maxx: I said you're a little younger than me.
• 49:29
  Maxx: I said, and I know better.
• 49:29
  Maxx: I said this was not a size guide that's been around 30 years.
• 49:32
  Maxx: I said this is Asian, european and US sizing all put in one thing.
• 49:41
  Maxx: I said, and this is what's confusing women it's poor fit, because now they're telling us our bodies, there's something wrong with our bodies.
• 49:46
  Mary: Yep, that's the first thought when something doesn't fit I'm, this is me, it's not.
• 49:51
  Maxx: Yeah, and it's not us, and that's why we have this body dysmorphia thing going.
• 49:55
  Maxx: Because clothes are so poorly made.
• 49:58
  Maxx: Fast fashion is not a woman's friend right?
• 50:02
  Maxx: So you buy this stuff online.
• 50:04
  Maxx: Woman's friend right?
• 50:07
  Maxx: So you buy this stuff online.
• 50:08
  Maxx: You find out the 3X that you wear in American sizes is a 7X in Asian sizing.
• 50:10
  Maxx: So you've got to figure all that out.
• 50:12
  Maxx: And then you find out that those clothes last you one season because they're so poorly made right, they look good coming out the bag, if you can stand the chemical smell that's coming out.
• 50:24
  Maxx: That's a whole other issue to get into.
• 50:26
  Maxx: But it's like women have had psychological warfare played on them from the fashion industry since the 80s when they started this whole vanity sizing.
• 50:38
  Maxx: I'm trying to change that.
• 50:40
  Maxx: I'm trying to change the apparel industry and I have found people who also want to change it.
• 50:46
  Maxx: So there's a call to action believe it or not, that we're doing to say, hey, this needs to change Because it's unfair to us women.
• 50:54
  Maxx: We already get the pressure of you know, do you have kids?
• 50:57
  Maxx: Do you not have kids?
• 50:59
  Maxx: You stay at home, mom, you're a working mom, you know it all falls on us, right?
• 51:04
  Maxx: We're not supposed to be in this industry.
• 51:07
  Maxx: Oh well, you can't do this industry because you got kids and you may have to go home when they're sick.
• 51:14
  Maxx: Just a bunch of stuff.
• 51:15
  Maxx: We have enough stuff going on that we should not have to worry about what size clothes we wear.
• 51:19
  Maxx: So, ladies listening, vanity sizing killed the market.
• 51:25
  Maxx: Everybody's got their own size.
• 51:27
  Maxx: Guys, it is not you that's not fitting the clothes.
• 51:32
  Maxx: The clothes aren't fitting anybody.
• 51:36
  Mary: Yeah, yeah and it you know it's a good point about the jeans because with all the stretch in them in the and they're getting worse, because even a good name pair, I just ripped the ass out of them like two months ago and I had them for less than a year.
• 51:50
  Mary: I'm like what is going on?
• 51:52
  Mary: And I think you can think, oh, my ass is getting bigger.
• 51:55
  Mary: No, it's not, it's the materials getting cheaper.
• 51:59
  Mary: It's the quality of the garment.
• 52:02
  Maxx: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 52:03
  Maxx: So.
• 52:03
  Maxx: It's not women, it's not anything that we're doing in our clothes, it's they're poorly made and I and, like I said, I think it's unfortunate there's a lot of young women that really don't know what quality jeans like.
• 52:17
  Mary: No, and I think too when you find a pair of like full cotton jeans that fit you well.
• 52:23
  Mary: I think we like the stretch because you know it either makes our butt look good or you know it accommodates more.
• 52:30
  Mary: But when you get a good pair of 100% cotton jeans that fit right, you look fabulous in those jeans.
• 52:38
  Mary: You just can't find them anymore.
• 52:41
  Maxx: Levi's and Lee.
• 52:42
  Mary: Yeah, oh, I was Levi's girl, for sure.
• 52:46
  Maxx: I love my a hundred percent cotton.
• 52:48
  Maxx: I was so upset when I just, you know, I don't know if I ate myself out of it or menopause me out of it, I don't know which one it was, but it was just disheartening Cause it's like man don't find these jeans, yeah, yeah, girdles and everything else, and she said it just hurts.
• 53:22
  Maxx: She said, you know, some women want to be comfortable.
• 53:25
  Maxx: And I get, why stretch, yeah, but it just doesn't last.
• 53:29
  Maxx: And then I'm reading a book called To Die For D-Y-E.
• 53:33
  Maxx: It scared me so bad I was like, do I even want to be in this business?
• 53:37
  Maxx: Chemicals they're putting in the back and stretch, as I listened to some of these doctors on YouTube.
• 53:45
  Maxx: And stretch, as I listened to some of these doctors on YouTube, they're finding microplastics in our organs, our brains, when they're doing autopsies.
• 53:53
  Maxx: And stuff and I'm like oh my God, you know, between the plastic bottles, between the you know synthetic fibers that we're wearing and everything.
• 54:01
  Maxx: And let's not talk about the dyes that get us.
• 54:03
  Maxx: I don't know if you remember everything.
• 54:05
  Maxx: And let's not talk about the dyes that get us.
• 54:07
  Maxx: I don't know if you remember there was a span of time that the dye would come off on your jeans.
• 54:15
  Maxx: It would be on your car seat, your furniture at home, it would be on you and I'm like what is this?
• 54:19
  Maxx: So that's when things, you know, we noticed things were starting to change.
• 54:22
  Maxx: Yeah, if they weren't like they were when we first started, you know buying our own stuff, so it's.
• 54:29
  Maxx: It's one of those things that I just want women to understand.
• 54:32
  Maxx: That it's not you again.
• 54:35
  Maxx: No, we get.
• 54:36
  Maxx: We get a bad rap for a lot of stuff.
• 54:38
  Maxx: Oh, you're not.
• 54:39
  Maxx: You know, it's the way you're shaped.
• 54:40
  Maxx: No, it's not because they're not making stuff for us.
• 54:44
  Maxx: They're taking men's sizes.
• 54:45
  Maxx: This is what they did in the beginning, and some of them still do.
• 54:50
  Maxx: In women's work clothes.
• 54:52
  Maxx: They just took the men's pattern and threw women's numbers in it.
• 54:55
  Mary: Yeah, I'm sure it's still not going to fit?
• 54:58
  Mary: I'm sure, and you have the perfect background, you know, with coming from the world of fashion and knowing how good clothes fit and how I mean I think the thing we really didn't touch on and we're, you know, we got to wrap it up, but I, you know, this has been so fun to talk to you.
• 55:15
  Mary: But the thing we didn't talk about is when a woman goes to work.
• 55:18
  Mary: I know, for me, I feel good in certain clothes, Absolutely.
• 55:22
  Maxx: Right.
• 55:23
  Mary: So you go to work as a trades person without something that makes you feel, you know, just good in your.
• 55:31
  Mary: You're fighting it.
• 55:32
  Mary: It sounds like you had to fight the pants and you had to fight the shirts, and you know you're also fighting the people on the job.
• 55:39
  Mary: Exactly, right, right and yeah.
• 55:43
  Mary: So I think it doesn't matter what your work is, you should feel good in what you're wearing.
• 55:50
  Maxx: And I say that in my advertising.
• 55:52
  Maxx: You know we just want women to feel professional.
• 55:55
  Maxx: Yeah, feel good and look good.
• 55:58
  Maxx: You're going to perform so much better.
• 56:00
  Maxx: Right and psychological.
• 56:02
  Maxx: I don't care what job it is.
• 56:04
  Maxx: I don't care what job it is, it can be out on the job site, it can be in an office.
• 56:09
  Maxx: If you feel good in your clothes, you are going to have a well performing day.
• 56:16
  Maxx: Right.
• 56:17
  Maxx: So, it's really important.
• 56:19
  Mary: Yeah, and I always said there's two things people care about at work where they get to park and what they get to wear.
• 56:24
  Mary: And I agree, I'd agree, I can't wait till your pants are all done and on your website, cause I will totally buy them to wear, cause the what?
• 56:36
  Maxx: you're doing a big pivot and I realized these pants with all the bells and whistles on them.
• 56:41
  Maxx: Yeah, it's going to take some time to do some revisions, so let me just make a basic pant.
• 56:46
  Maxx: Just making a basic pant, and guess what?
• 56:49
  Maxx: You're not going to have a two-inch pocket in the front.
• 56:53
  Mary: Thank you, because Levi's had a normal pocket which men still get to have.
• 56:59
  Maxx: And we don't.
• 56:59
  Maxx: You can put a plastic in in the morning and I guarantee you it will squeeze its way out of that two-inch pocket by the end of two inch pocket and you don't have that anymore.
• 57:07
  Maxx: So we're going to do a basic pamphlet with exactly what women want.
• 57:16
  Mary: Good, and I'm going to also say that I want everybody to check out your website because you have a lot on there already.
• 57:22
  Mary: You have some.
• 57:23
  Mary: I'm a t-shirt girl, so I love like funky, fun t-shirts and you have some, and she gave me permission to buy something, even though I am not a trades person, but I'm a do-it-yourselfer.
• 57:34
  Mary: So there's hats and really cool sweatshirts and t-shirts, so can you tell people where to find you, max?
• 57:44
  Maxx: Yes, you find me at gotstreetbluescom, and that's G-O-T-T-S-T-R-E-E-T bluescom.
• 57:53
  Mary: And I will put a link in the show notes.
• 57:55
  Mary: Thank you so much for being here.
• 57:58
  Mary: This has been just it's been such a fun conversation.
• 58:03
  Mary: You're a great storyteller and you have such cool experiences to combine because we didn't really get to talk about, you know, even intersection of identities and how that impacted you in both those fields.
• 58:16
  Mary: But you know you had a lot, I think, different challenges in both of those different careers to contend with as a woman.
• 58:24
  Mary: Yes, in both of those different careers to contend with as a woman.
• 58:28
  Mary: You mean the focus very much on being a woman and what that means and what you look like and how people treat you, and I just think you know to pull that all together and now do something that is for specifically women.
• 58:38
  Mary: I just love that.
• 58:40
  Mary: That's so cool.
• 58:40
  Maxx: My biggest thing is to make women feel liberated in who they are.
• 58:44
  Maxx: Let's get back to normal, right?
• 58:47
  Maxx: We've been out of normal for so long.
• 58:51
  Maxx: Women come in different sizes, colors, shapes, and let's get back to what's just normal.
• 58:56
  Maxx: Yep, right.
• 58:58
  Maxx: Yeah, it's not us.
• 58:59
  Maxx: It's everything around us trying to tell us who we are and what we should look like.
• 59:05
  Maxx: Let's get back to us, just being us.
• 59:09
  Mary: Agree.
• 59:09
  Mary: So thanks again, Maxx, and thank you everyone for listening.
• 59:13
  Mary: If you enjoyed today's show, please do a quick review by clicking the stars, at least on Apple Podcasts, or leave a review, and it helps other people find me and gives me a little boost, because I do love investing my time in my podcast.
• 59:26
  Mary: It's one of my favorite things.
• 59:28
  Mary: So until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant Violet that you are.
• 59:46
  Mary: Thank you.