Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #40 - Living With Lymes & Changing Lives | Leonie Shanahan

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#40 - Living With Lymes & Changing Lives | Leonie Shanahan · The Shed Organics Show

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Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shed
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Organic Show. Today on the episode we are
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joined by a wonderful woman by the name of Leonie Shanahan.
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And if you're not familiar with Leonie, I'm sure you're going to
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absolutely fall in love with her by the end of the episode.
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I had the absolute pleasure of meeting her at the Queensland
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Garden Show this year. And I was struck immediately by
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not only her passion for what she's doing in terms of helping
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the kids with these community gardens and things in the in the
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school garden program. Talking about the soil and and
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cover crop and green manure and the health of our soil, which is
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something that we really connected on as obviously that's
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something that I promote quite heavily, but also her struggle
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with Lyme disease. And now we touch on this a
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little bit today, briefly scratching the surface of such a
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deep topic, but Leonie's got a couple of wonderful books on
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these topics, and I highly recommend that you go and check
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them out. The link will be on in the
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description or the show notes below, so you can go and check
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those out from her website. But we're going to dive into
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school programs, school gardens and Lyme disease and the health
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of our nutritional food and how we can best look after our
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bodies, our communities, and obviously the planet as a whole.
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O so much to touch on in this conversation, and I've
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absolutely no doubt that you'll enjoy it.
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O Here is the absolutely wonderful Leone Shanahan.
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Do you mind running me through the initial concept of thinking
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about why so why starting school garden programs?
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I I mean, now it seems fairly obvious as to why we would, but
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what was that spark of interest that said, yeah, I'm going to go
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and down this pathway? Well, at that stage I had two
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daughters, one was six and one was 10.
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And I'd been doing a little bit of gardening at the very sad.
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Well, they called it a permaculture garden, but it was
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really just sand and a few plants on there.
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Anyway, so I'm having morning tea with my youngest daughter
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and her little friends, all these little 6 year olds sweet
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and and and they they open their lunch boxes and I'm like.
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No. Oh.
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My God, like where is the nutrition in these lunch boxes?
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Like some might have had fruit, but you know, there'd be lots of
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colour. We know about the rainbow diet.
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Yeah lots of colour, but it's all artificial.
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Yes, in pre like in plastic, some bit of micro plastics to
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add to that as well. I'm fine.
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Hey, I didn't want my kids to look like freaks with all their
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healthy food. It's like, where is the
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nutrition for these children to have their birthright of being
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healthy and their true potential to be unleashed because they're
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healthy and, you know, where's it going to be their brain
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capacity and, you know, all those different umbrellas that
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came under health. I thought, OK, you have studied
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permaculture organics, horticulture, how about you do
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something about it, do something with it?
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Because I started starting off and this happens to a lot of
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women. They have their first baby and
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then go actually where am I heading with my life?
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And that was one of those changes.
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I wanted to do something that made a difference.
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So I decided to study horticulture, thinking that I'd
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go and work in Cambodia and, and, and because they had that
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generation that was wiped out of all the farmers.
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So I thought, oh, I'll go over and I'll and I'll teach them.
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That was the thought. I've never even got there.
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But, and I was the longest part time horticulture student they
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ever had. I do one or two subjects at
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once. So going back to, you know,
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realising that, OK, stop complaining and do something
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about it. So I went in, so that's about
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2000 and four 2005. So I went and looked at the
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current models that were successful.
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So I went down to Melbourne and looked at cultivating community.
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They were running good programs down there and I went to North
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East St. City Farm in Brisbane and I went
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and spent the day with them visiting schools.
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And then I came home and I wrote my own 12 month program.
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Wow. And then and everything was to
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be about empowering them, not me just telling them what to do,
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right? So and then so obviously the
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universe went love that idea. I'm going to I'm going to make
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sure it works. So I'd go on to this community.
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I don't know what it was now, but I remember saying in this
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group, oh, I want to start this school garden program.
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And this woman across the other side just puts a hand out and
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said our school needs that. We'll make it happen and.
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That was a. Harmwood State School and they
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were amazing. Like we went to see the
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principal, she was Yep, we'll make it happen.
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We didn't get funding, but the school so believed in it.
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They said nut we'll make it happen.
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And we just combed the shops, the local, it's a little town.
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It's it's grown a lot these days.
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But and businesses were fantastic in donating.
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And so anyway, so I went into this school and taught several
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classes. At that stage I was focusing on
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Year 5 and sixes and I taught them about permaculture and
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design. And the idea was they came up
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with their own design because it's their school.
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It's not my school, it's their school.
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So. And of course, if I remember the
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first time I got up in front of them and I'm suddenly like, oh,
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oh, you've got 30 designs in front of you and that's just one
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class. How are you going to do this
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anyway? Well, thankfully my mind went
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very quickly. Break them into groups, work out
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the main thing they liked. And, and so at the end of the
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day, with a little bit of persuasion and me coming up with
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the final design, every person in that school or the classes I
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had felt like it was their their design.
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That's amazing. Yeah.
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So that they had ownership. So that was the first important
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thing. And then one of the most
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important days that the kids will always remember there was
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true. There's that and there's Harvest
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Day was the setup day where, where and it's a shame they
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didn't record it on TV because they set up things I did.
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Ours was much better and was more real.
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So all the students came together and we asked parents to
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come and help. And that first school being the
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first one's more memorable because this.
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Is. You know, we had 79 people turn
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up to help. That's amazing.
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And thankfully I had the forethought to write up all the
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different steps on butcher's paper and have like step one,
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Step 2, Step 3, because we were doing Herb smiles, we're doing
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no dig gardens. I'd put the shape out earlier in
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the day, so the shape was there. We had so many activities going
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at once. And so they come up and say, oh,
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we've just done this. And I go, that group's just done
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what you're up to, go and speak. And I was just doing this all
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day. Go and speak to that.
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Go and speak to that one. Do that.
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Do that. There's that list.
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And then the day it was done. That's amazing.
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That's such a really cool thing to see your vision come
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together, but also having the support of everybody, right,
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bringing everyone together. And oh, there's already so many
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things I want to click on in terms of what you've spoken
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about, but one of them primarily being at the start that you
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mentioned the nutritional quality right, of the food.
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So just kind of catch up to through where we at.
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The the biggest thing that I've heard from from my mom, for
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example, my mom's a teacher. She works with the young kids
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and she's noticed, I mean, like, you know, sorry to throw my mom
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under the bus, but I did have some fairly colorful plastic
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food when I was younger as well, even though she did make us some
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wonderful sandwiches and things like this.
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But the, the nutritional quality leads to, for the teacher, for
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example, not having kids that are able to pay attention, not
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able to engage, not have the energy to last them through the
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whole, the whole school day. And you know, school in itself
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is hard enough to pay attention and sit there and, and do what
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you're told, etcetera. And, and if you're not filled
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with the right energy, then they're just going to struggle.
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And our teachers are seeing this impact as behavioral issues, as
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you know, concentration issues, et cetera, et cetera.
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So that's one thing. So I know that you're, you know,
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well versed on that and you know exactly what that means.
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But then taking the design and trying to think about how to get
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kids engaged and have their own autonomy and have that
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ownership, like you just said, seems to me like a very
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challenging task for very for lots of different learners.
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And, and maybe someone that's not a teacher or worked with
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kids before is. Can you tell me about any of
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that experience in setting up that program and getting them to
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be engaged and thinking about that coming from someone who
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might not have worked in schools or with kids?
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You did have daughters, but you know.
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And I, I wasn't a teacher. Yeah, I come.
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I'd come from a back to background of optics and office
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manager and secretary so. Well, maybe management skills
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were very high up there though. Maybe sort of thing.
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But yeah, definitely the engagement now one of the.
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So ownership was the first thing, OK, it's their garden.
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And the next scene was it had to be fun, yes.
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So we often started off I I had a huge amount of games that just
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came out of my head or I had a friend that was a teacher and
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she, she was my mentor because she did a lot of this work first
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and then and, and it was a great way to get things done in the
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garden, get them to behave because we have this game at the
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start and I go, oh, am I going to play this other game at the
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end? But you know, these things have
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to be done and and it it just helped with the behaviour thing.
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Didn't mean they always behaved definitely.
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Not. But and I always had multiple
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activities going yeah, at at once.
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And you? Don't want too many children
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standing around doing nothing. They'll find something to do,
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whether it's helpful or not. There was even.
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I mean, I mean, it's going to be so easy to digress with them
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with stories. But you know, these boys are
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really playing up one day and I said, right, you're gonna go
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over to the compost. And I think they were to empty
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the compost anyway, They got so excited about the cockroaches in
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the compost because the chickens were next door.
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And so they'd given to the chickens.
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The chickens were so excited. So then the other kids got
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annoyed that these boys were having the most fun getting the
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cockroaches out and feeding to the chickens.
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I know you you wanna almost punish them, but then you've
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given them something really fun. There was a perfect activity for
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them. Yeah, so good.
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So yeah, but. The thing is we, we, you know,
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we made fun and they had their journals and, you know, some
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people didn't like the journals, but they had their journals from
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day one. And it was particularly good
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when, you know, different schools embrace the program more
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than others. But the one thing for sure is
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they had to invite me into the school.
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I didn't go to them so that they had to want it.
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That was the first thing. But when when a school embraced
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the journal, and so in times that I wasn't there, they would
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use that garden for reading or doing maths, they realized that
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a permaculture garden or a school garden has lots of
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different maths you can do. So it was fantastic when a
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school really just went all in. Yeah.
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And kids were proud of their journals.
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I'm sure they were because that like how much of that was in
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your forethought in setting up that 12 month program?
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Because yes, there's an element of writing the content, for
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example, like designs thinking about, OK, how am I going to
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teach these kids and and what elements do I need to teach
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them? But are you thinking about those
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other aspects that, you know, yeah, when you come into a
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school, they become very real. Or is that you're sort of
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thinking on your feet the first few times and then you can
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implement some of those moving forward?
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Even over the whole time I did the program and all the
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different schools, I'm still always thinking on my feet of.
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Course, yeah. Every school's different.
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Children are different, teachers are different.
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You're always thinking on your feet now.
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Initially it was just about the program and, and often teachers,
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they gave me the idea about the journal because they wanted to
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go all in and stuff like that. And then it's like, Oh yeah,
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this journal's fantastic. And yeah, they they did.
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And they want me to write the whole curriculum.
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And what teacher was going to work with me?
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And her husband was a teacher. And I said, that's not my job,
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I'm busy enough. I'm not, I'm not running the
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curriculum as well. No, no, no, that's very
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difficult. You're just trying to come in
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and provide something for them to be a part of and learn about
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the healthy food. Yeah, so.
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Great. So initially you started off
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with these schools back in sort of 2000 and four, 2005.
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Tell me about the journey of how quickly that sort of spread and
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what was it like in terms of approaching different schools or
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having schools approach you in, in terms of the differences of
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any challenges you found trying to to contact and get these
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programs set up versus some schools that are like open arms
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come we need this. We've been waiting for this
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opportunity. Like I said, I never approached
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a school. They had to come to me.
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That's amazing because especially back in the start,
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I'm competing with computers, you know, true, that's how long
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ago it was. And so people didn't want to
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direct money to the garden. And that was another reason the
15:13
way I set them up, it was probably it was going to be that
15:16
anyway, but I knew they had to be successful from the start.
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And that's why we did the no dig gardens.
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And for a start, we always had, I mean, where are you going to
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find good soil on on a school ground with thousands of kids
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having run over it? You had to make sure within
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weeks of me setting that up, you had this magnificent produce
15:35
that people would go, oh. Very true, but.
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She did and the kids had something to talk about.
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So, but like, I was pretty nervous that like Palmers was
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fantastic. You know, I had volunteers.
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I had, it was really the dream one to start with and another
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school which I might mention, I would go to the classroom and
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the teacher would completely ignore me and just let me do my
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thing. And then it came to set up today
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and only a couple of people turned up and, you know, and I,
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I didn't have enough experience to back then to go into the
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principal and say, sorry, I'm not having this class.
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I want a different class. But it was but the students
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wanted it, but the teacher didn't even remind them that
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there was set up day coming because that was on a that one
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was on a weekend. Most of them are during the
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week. But yeah, that was just like,
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there's a lot of learning lessons for me along the way.
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How do I tweak this? But but as a rule, schools were
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fantastic because there was obviously already a group of
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people that really wanted it. Now when the principal didn't
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support it, it wasn't as successful.
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It was a lot harder because he didn't give as much freedom.
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When you had it from the top down, it was magnificent.
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The other ones you always, not always, but more times than not,
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the groundsman did not appreciate you being on the
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ground. That's amazing.
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I would have thought that was like, that's the opposite.
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I would have thought that the groundsmen are cheering these
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types of things, but. No.
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Maybe not. Maybe they're thinking more
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things for me to clean up. And it's not, you know, you're
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just taking over a space. They actually don't have to have
17:21
anything to do with it. When they do support you is
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heaven is heaven, but I don't expect that.
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But when they do it, it is wonderful.
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So the groundsmen were the most challenging and I hope that's
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changed these days. Now that's become now that it's
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common for to have a school garden, thankfully, Yeah,
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hopefully that's changed. Yeah, you're right about that
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top down approach. And I think that's really
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poignant in terms of what we need to do to make systemic
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change is to have it from the top down so that it is
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implemented and necessary to implement and almost motivated
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to or incentivized. So that schools that the school
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itself, not necessarily just the kids and the families that the
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school itself wants to do it. Because there's an incentive to
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put that in the school and include it in the curriculum and
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all these types of things. One question I did have about
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that setting up the garden, I found it very interesting that
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you said you needed to have it productive and have some results
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to show for you, for yourself. And I think that's quite a
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common pressure that's put on gardeners, landscapers, all
18:30
these people that are setting something up.
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And I've had conversations with various different people in
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residential areas that have had landscape done or landscaping
18:40
and gardens done. And they will sort of come in
18:44
and say, this is what, you know, this is what the space is.
18:50
And the the client will give them, I want this.
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And they'll sort of come in and go, OK, put it all in and just
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leave and never come back. And that obviously, if you're
18:59
just listening to what the client wants, they don't have an
19:02
understanding of how the soil and the environment works and
19:06
they're just kind of doing what they've been told to do.
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But not thinking about the longevity, not thinking about
19:12
how this is going to look in two years, how the maintenance is
19:15
going to be, how the water flow is going to be, etcetera,
19:17
etcetera. So for you coming in and really
19:21
wanting to make this impact and showing kids, hey, look, we can
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actually have something and get them excited.
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And then they go and reinforce that by telling everybody and
19:30
saying, look what we can do. How did you manage that?
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How what was all the thinking in terms of, I know there's a lot
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of individual circumstances for schools, but can you give me
19:40
anything on that initial setup and what were the crucial things
19:44
that helped it become successful for those kids early on?
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Well, it was new. You know what a lot of kids
19:52
crave? Being outside.
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Yeah, yeah, true. Doing something outside, I think
19:59
that it was just different. I've seen a lot of kids, even
20:02
I'm I'm on the Sunshine Coast, in Queensland, even a lot of
20:06
kids don't have backyards. Right.
20:08
You know. Because they're they're building
20:11
more and more houses, especially the last five years, they're
20:14
really stacking them together and there's no backyard oil.
20:18
Yeah. So run that question by me
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again. That's OK.
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The what I'm, what I'm kind of looking for is what was it?
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What was it that you set up in the garden?
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So for example, you get to a school, they've got an area that
20:35
they're gonna use for this garden and you're looking at it
20:39
first and foremost. Are you then having to go and
20:42
like you said, bring soil in, set up garden beds, planting
20:47
things and fertilizing and clearing and all of this?
20:50
What are what are the things that were the the number 123
20:55
that you were tackling? All right, so first we found the
20:59
site that we were could you? So we had to make sure that it
21:02
was an appropriate site. You know, if that was an area
21:05
where kids played all the time, well, it's not fair that we take
21:07
that away. So we had to find a space where
21:12
it wasn't being used a lot and also a space that the school
21:16
wasn't likely to take back. Again.
21:19
I just didn't take into consideration that Julia Gillard
21:22
years further on would give all this money for halls.
21:26
So where do you think they put in put most of them?
21:29
Right on the gardens. Yeah, so, and yes, we had to
21:33
definitely bring in lots of lots of bags of compost and worm
21:38
castings and loosen hay and hay and maybe rocks, you know, and,
21:44
and I still wanted to make them feel like the kids were part of
21:49
it. So I'd say to them, anything you
21:51
can bring from home or something, even if it's just one
21:54
rock, just bring that rock in, you know, because we try to
21:58
recycle as much as possible and if we could get try and keep it
22:03
local as much as possible. So yeah, try to keep that
22:07
empowering. What can we recycle like get the
22:09
bath for the worm farm and you know what, what can we use that
22:14
still the safety, you know, safe to use and things like that.
22:17
So yeah, we bought a lot in and it all happened on one day and.
22:22
Wow. And then that that's where all
22:24
these volunteers come in and the community who are donating
22:28
things. I really love how you keep
22:30
bringing it back to empowering the kids and giving them their
22:33
input because I feel like that would be one of the key stones
22:38
to making it successful. Because if you didn't, if you
22:41
kind of came in and sort of went, hey, like this is my idea,
22:45
this is what would work and pushed it on them that you'd get
22:49
a lot of resistance. Yeah, well, it's boring, isn't
22:52
it? Yeah, yeah, you want it to be
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part of your idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And, you know, just imagine that you've turned up to school for
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this setup day. Like, yeah, this this this girl
23:05
that's turned up has shown you that.
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Yeah, yeah, this is what we're going to be doing.
23:08
What does that mean? And then suddenly starting to
23:10
see it happening. And like the kids are all doing
23:12
it. The Karen, the rocks for Herb
23:14
spiral. And, you know, they're doing all
23:16
this thing and they're watching it happen and evolve.
23:19
And, you know, they can muck around on that day.
23:21
And I've got this great picture of his kid because we're laying
23:24
down the newspaper, you know, we, we've wetted and molasses
23:28
and water, laying it down to suppress the weeds.
23:30
And the kids picked up one of the newspapers and started
23:33
reading it. And it's so funny.
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It was like, well, that's what you want to do right now.
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You can. That's it.
23:39
That's all working with kids, isn't it?
23:41
It's the unpredictability. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:43
So you know, you know and that you know, that's only the first
23:47
few weeks we've got up to that stage.
23:48
We've still got this whole 12 month program that where they're
23:52
learning everything. That's so true.
23:54
OK, So then in that 12 month program, what are some of the
23:59
things that you're touching on with the kids?
24:01
Like what in terms of topics you mentioned like a worm farm and,
24:05
and working with that sort of thing and composting and what's
24:08
the 12 months look like once you've put that garden in?
24:13
So we have to let it rest for a couple of weeks because it's hot
24:17
after setting up the no dig garden.
24:19
But then they're learning about, OK, what are we going to plant?
24:22
What's in what, what's the seasons we're planting?
24:25
How are we going to plant these seeds?
24:27
Which ones are going to go and direct?
24:28
Which ones are we going to pre soak 1st and why do we pre soak
24:36
it? And, and how big's that plant
24:38
going to grow the seeds only this big, but the plant gets
24:41
bigger than that. How big's the zucchini going to
24:43
grow? How much?
24:44
What's the space going to look like?
24:46
And so they start to work out well, what what do they want to
24:49
eat? How Long's that going to take to
24:51
grow? And you know, and it's very hard
24:55
for them to gauge that an apple tree, not that we'd grow apples.
24:59
Well, you could, but you know, it's this big thing, it just
25:03
doesn't grow straight away and it takes time.
25:06
So yeah, there's there's all of that.
25:09
And what's the best food for us to go, what with a tuck shop?
25:12
Like, you know, that's more further down the track when we
25:17
start getting a lot of food, just every single subject, you
25:22
know, then you're going on to seed saving further on down the
25:24
track and and. That's brilliant.
25:27
How old are these kids? Just curious.
25:29
No, preferably not prep yeah, initially it was for for Year 5
25:35
and sixes, right. But depending on how big the
25:38
school was, whether you did the whole school, if it's just a
25:41
little school or a bigger school, you, you try to do that.
25:44
But at at Our Lady of the Rosary in Caloundra, it started off
25:50
small. I just had probably just the
25:52
bigger classes, but they didn't let me go.
25:57
So I'm still there after five years and they got roughly 500
26:01
children. Actually to go back to the we
26:04
talked about how I got the programs up and going.
26:08
Yes, it was the parents and a couple of teachers that really
26:11
wanted that program. So I had a meeting with them
26:14
all, and I have a meeting with them beforehand to let them know
26:17
these are your responsibilities. It's not just me.
26:20
You know, I, I start to lay, lay, lay down the ground rules
26:23
because I want successful projects.
26:25
Yeah. My name's against these.
26:27
Yeah. Yeah.
26:28
Anyway, after the first year, I'm in the staff room and he
26:32
comes up and starts messaging me and he goes, I need to apologize
26:37
to you. I go, why?
26:39
What's what happened? Because I never thought this
26:43
program would be successful, I wasn't keen for it said You have
26:47
changed this community, you have brought them together.
26:50
The kids love it, the whole school loves it.
26:53
So I want to thank you. Oh.
26:54
That's beautiful. That was so nice.
26:57
It's like you haven't tried it down.
26:59
And yeah, so that's that's that's.
27:03
Really. Good.
27:03
Like, it's the kids, like, just run, you know?
27:07
And oh, I'll tell you about the harvest day.
27:10
I'll particularly tell you about Our Lady of the Rosary because
27:13
by this stage, coming up to my fifth harvest day, the principal
27:18
goes, oh, the whole school wants to be involved.
27:21
I'm like, our garden's not that big, he says.
27:25
I know, but they all want to be involved.
27:26
They don't want to look out the window and watch everyone else
27:28
having fun. I said OK, as long as you can
27:32
promise me that. Every single teacher and and
27:37
parents and they had a brilliant parent group will support the
27:41
day because I can't manage this much.
27:44
I said, yeah, not a problem. Now they didn't have a kitchen.
27:48
They had one in the staff room, but there's no kitchen, no home.
27:51
Home economics. Yeah, right.
27:52
Every every single classroom turned into a kitchen.
27:56
Oh, wow. The parents bought in the
27:57
kitchen whatever they needed to cook food and they all had their
28:03
different recipes that they worked out And every because
28:07
this is harvest days big, we normally get a celebrity chef in
28:11
maybe celebrities. Goodness, Jeffrey, we didn't get
28:14
it for that because it was just too big.
28:15
Yeah, celebrity chef. So we had Costa come up for that
28:19
one. And there has has to be
28:22
entertainment and like it's it's huge.
28:25
It's a it's a festival. It's a festival about we are so
28:29
blessed to be able to grow food. We are so blessed to be in a
28:33
free country and and be around it and the community.
28:37
So every classroom is a kitchen. And so that's all going on.
28:44
We were harvesting all the food, working at which classroom wants
28:47
what, what food and they had to buy in a lot of food as well.
28:51
And then the whole Oval turns into this, this festival, so on.
28:59
So I'm at the top looking down as I'll keep running up to check
29:03
out what how everything's cooking running down there.
29:06
They've got a maypole dance going.
29:08
Then then they've got a harvest dance going and they've made-up
29:12
a harvest song as well. They've got a tractor.
29:17
Most, most these kids haven't seen a tractor.
29:21
I wouldn't have even thought of that because I grew up in the
29:23
country and they've, they've got the baby farm animals as well.
29:28
And then they've got the the thong.
29:30
We were on our feet. Yeah.
29:32
They had thong throwing competition.
29:35
They had punk and rolling competition.
29:38
Oh, my goodness. And no disposables.
29:42
I'm very strict on no disposables.
29:44
And so I said to the teachers, OK, well my harvest kit is not
29:51
good enough forks for 500 children, so you have to all go
29:55
out. We're going to see who can get
29:56
the cheapest forks. Just made it competition.
29:59
You know who could get like 2 for $0.05.
30:02
So that's. Great.
30:04
And so, and we ate off arrowroot leaves and Mulberry leaves
30:10
because it was the end of the year, so they were big.
30:12
And then they went to the chooks and the goats.
30:15
Oh, that's great. And this school's got next to no
30:19
space. And the principal who's getting
30:21
right into all this, then then has goats in the school.
30:25
It's like, where you gonna put the goats anyway?
30:29
And and oh, we played MasterChef.
30:31
So Costa, myself and the principal, we were the
30:34
MasterChef. Judges brilliant and.
30:37
That was just cruel for the children because I just wanted
30:39
to eat. They wanted what she tasted and
30:43
they got. Cool, because they weren't
30:45
interested in US trying the food and and then.
30:47
So all the tables were set up like a big flower and then every
30:52
classroom would come down and they'd have a plate for each
30:56
table. So every table had every single
30:58
classrooms food on it and I remember one parent standing
31:02
beside me going my child won't eat fat because you watch.
31:07
Wait, yeah. You watch and it did and and it
31:13
was just a brilliant day. It was just, and I remember
31:17
standing up the top and went, this school has got it like this
31:21
is the community, like the community, the environment, the
31:25
food, the nutrition, the joy. And it's, it's like, and we'll
31:32
talk about this later, but I didn't realize at that moment
31:34
that that would be my last harvest day.
31:36
And I was just like up there going perfect.
31:39
This is finally, after all these years, this is exactly what I've
31:44
been trying to say to everyone. That's such a beautiful story.
31:48
I I feel very heartwarmed by that because for for one, I
31:55
mean, it takes somebody special like yourself to have this
31:58
initial spark of inspiration and dedication to make it happen,
32:03
right? But then the ability to awaken
32:06
that in all of these other people and to have them then
32:10
reciprocate that same level of passion and enthusiasm and kind
32:15
of run with their and to seeing that must have been a real kind
32:18
of goosebumps moment. Looking at it and just going,
32:20
wow, this is really special to see.
32:23
Absolutely. And look, and I had loads of
32:25
special moments and, and I still get them.
32:28
Like I was at the Conscious Life festival earlier this year and
32:33
I'm just standing waiting to talk to a friend who's got a
32:36
stall and a big Conscious Life festival.
32:39
We all chat to each other. So this lady starts talking to
32:42
me and she says she's from Calandra.
32:44
I said I used to work in a school in Calandra.
32:46
She goes, she goes, what did you do there?
32:49
I said, oh, you know, I used to do school gardens.
32:52
And she just stared at me. She goes, which one?
32:55
And I said, a lady of the rosary and she started crying and she
32:59
just hugged me. And she said, you saved my son.
33:04
And because my mind's going, what accidents happened at
33:07
school? And like Vania had had one with
33:09
some boys who were beaten when he had a different school and
33:12
and my mind's just racing going what happened?
33:14
What is it? And she goes because of you, my
33:18
son, who be an adult now, he suffers terribly from depression
33:24
and he knows to go out in the garden and and I don't teach.
33:30
I don't teach that not not not to school children's and do to
33:34
adults, but not to school children.
33:36
And is like oh. That's incredible.
33:39
And all those years later, I suppose too, you know, to.
33:42
Yeah, they were primary school. Wow, you know, that's so
33:47
special. I'm so, yeah, I'm, I'm humbled
33:49
by that myself. And I wasn't even involved.
33:51
But I think like the just to feel the, the power of something
33:56
that you can do to help impact somebody's life in that way by
34:00
sharing, just sharing stuff that's like already out there,
34:04
but making it accessible and more passionate for people.
34:07
Because like I, I say, you know, nature's work is not my work.
34:10
We're just I'm observing, learning, and then trying to
34:15
repackage and help you get inspired and motivated from it
34:18
as well. But then you're you're just
34:21
shining the light on it in a different perspective that helps
34:24
them understand and make something click for them that
34:26
obviously then can go and change their life.
34:29
That's so special. That's very, very special.
34:32
Hey guys, really quickly jumping in.
34:34
I just want to remind you if you are not subscribed to this show,
34:37
that is the number one thing that you can do to show me your
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support. So if you're finding value from
34:42
this conversation and you're deeply engaged, I would love you
34:45
to hit the follow or subscribe button.
34:47
All right, back to the show. Can can we talk about then after
34:52
successful, whoa, what 7-8 years maybe of school gardens and
34:59
things, you then you then ran into one of your biggest
35:05
challenges. So something that I'm relatively
35:11
new to, I know only a couple of people that are in the same
35:14
boat. Can you share with us a little
35:16
bit about your journey finding out about limes, but then also
35:23
what it is and what we can do in terms of management and and
35:30
recognition of this type of disease and then spread a little
35:35
bit of awareness. So I know there's a lot to
35:36
unpack with this, but go for it. Yeah.
35:42
So in 2013 I suddenly got sick. And it was and it was sudden
35:48
and, and God, God bless Our Lady of the Rosary school because I,
35:54
I spoke to one of the teachers, said I can't do it anymore.
35:57
I said I have no energy. I said I, I have a sleep when I
36:02
get to school before I get out of the car.
36:04
I said I just can't function. I just, she's going, oh, we'll
36:08
make it easy because I didn't want to let me go.
36:10
We'll make it easy. So, so I had to, I just had to
36:14
stop all my work with school gardens.
36:17
And so the doctors were just because, at least back then,
36:22
just doctors didn't know what Lyme was or they weren't allowed
36:26
to recognise it, they weren't allowed to treat you.
36:30
Weren't allowed. To they weren't they weren't.
36:32
No, sorry, hang on. I've got that wrong.
36:35
The they. There was no standard.
36:39
They weren't allowed to know about it.
36:40
They weren't allowed to know about it.
36:42
They had to like, no, no, nothing, no, nothing, no
36:43
nothing. And so most of them did know
36:45
nothing. So for the first two years,
36:48
they're just saying, oh, you've got chronic fatigue.
36:51
And Yep, sure did have chronic fatigue because I was in bed
36:54
most of the time. And then luckily I've been going
36:57
to this amazing kinesiologist who was saying chronic fatigue
37:00
as well. And then one day he goes,
37:02
there's got to be something else because you are doing everything
37:05
possible naturally and you're just getting sicker and sicker
37:10
and sicker. And so he tested me on this
37:14
thing he had and he said, this way, I say, ignorance is bliss.
37:20
He goes, oh, you've got Lyme disease.
37:23
And all I can think of is a Lyme in a tree and and I go, oh,
37:27
what's that like? I wouldn't have that reaction
37:30
now. And he explained it and, and
37:33
didn't mean a lot. So I told my doctor and she's
37:36
like, no, no, no. And then a few months later, I
37:39
had an emergency appointment with her and I said, I'm so
37:43
sick, I couldn't even go to a friend's funeral today.
37:46
And she goes, I think you've got Lyme disease, honestly, I want
37:50
to slap her. And then she gives me a book
37:53
that she's got and said, look at that and tell me what's if
37:56
there's anything in there, the symptoms?
37:59
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
38:04
And now I think how could you not have known?
38:06
I didn't have it because my besides a chronic fatigue, it
38:09
felt like I had thousands of bugs crawling under my skin and
38:13
so I'd be punching myself all the time. 1 of many, many
38:17
things. So we you can get one test for
38:21
one Lyme's up here. So I sorry, I'll backtrack a
38:24
bit. I got mine for a from a tick
38:27
bite. That's where most people get it
38:29
from ticks. I'd had that bite 10, 12 years
38:34
previously, but because I'd always been healthy and had a
38:38
strong immunity, it couldn't, couldn't get me, but still sits
38:42
there waiting. And I went through a whole lot
38:45
of stress all at once, different things.
38:48
And it went in. It's like quick, quick, quick,
38:51
quick get up, where's everyone want to go.
38:53
And that's what happens it that's why Lyme is so hard to
38:56
treat because so Lyme's up here, but then it pumps in all these
39:02
Co infections and they're the ones that make you really sick.
39:06
And everyone has different ones. So in in Australia, we can only
39:10
be tested for Rickettsia. So I had that tested and the
39:15
doctor goes, I know why aren't you sick?
39:17
You've got 5 different types of Ricketts.
39:19
Yeah. Wow.
39:21
And then we sent my blood to America, which I don't recommend
39:25
people do now because there's I would recommend you go to a buy
39:29
a resonance person where they have the programs and they pick
39:32
up the frequency of the chicken much more efficient.
39:35
So my I've paid nearly 2 grand to send my blood to America to
39:39
get tested. And they don't even necessarily
39:42
hang out in the blood. Sort of a bit of a slide to go
39:45
to the next place in your body, But it came back with multiple
39:50
positives and seeing it's hard to get positive.
39:53
It wasn't what you wanted to get.
39:54
No. So then became the journey of
39:58
you really are on your own to work it out because the doctor
40:02
is stuck in a medical system. That is an old tick bite.
40:06
So if I just got that bite, go straight on antibiotics if you
40:10
get a rash or a rash is only for line people.
40:15
So 28% people get that. Yep, that's definitely line.
40:19
Or if you get and I won't go into all the different symptoms.
40:22
But yeah, that's OK. Weird, weird.
40:25
After a tick bite, just go straddling antibiotics because
40:29
it's not worth the risk of being sick for years.
40:35
So then I was on that journey I had to make because I was still
40:37
really sick at that stage. So I had to make that decision.
40:41
Do I give up or do I keep going? So.
40:46
Oh, it's all so fresh. Oh, Leon, I know it's such AII
40:51
really appreciate you opening this up for us because your your
40:54
book is your book as well. Your book as well.
40:57
I think people should go and check out because it does go
40:59
into this in a little bit more detail.
41:01
Yeah, but I'm so appreciative of you for there you go.
41:05
Look, sorry I didn't do that. There, there it is.
41:07
I'm sucks and it very much, very much does.
41:11
I'll let you keep going, but I just want to know.
41:14
I appreciate you going into this.
41:15
This is very, very important for so many people.
41:18
Thank. You and and it and it is so I
41:21
decided to make it a project. It's like, OK, you're good at
41:27
projects, just make it a project.
41:29
Don't look at it as an illness, just make it a project.
41:33
So and it's like try and make connections with people overseas
41:37
because they're treating them everywhere else in the world.
41:40
It's just Australia has these like no, no, no, no, no, they're
41:43
not here. They're not here.
41:44
They are, you know, there's roughly and how could we get the
41:47
real numbers, but there's roughly 24,000 people with
41:50
Lyme's disease here. And you know, and now it's even
41:54
worse because now doctors are not allowed to treat you and now
41:58
it can be struck off for treating you.
42:00
So. I I feel like that could be a
42:02
whole different conversation but.
42:03
Oh, yeah, yeah. Don't go down that rabbit hole.
42:05
That's something that just shows the.
42:09
Yeah, exactly. Things aren't natural.
42:13
Yeah. So I, I happened to bump into
42:18
some girls I knew separately and they had Lyme disease as well.
42:22
So. And I knew them and we all knew
42:24
each other, you know, in our life of being vibrant and stuff.
42:28
And so I went, oh, start a line group.
42:32
So I started this line group and it was so good.
42:35
Like if you saw us together, there were seven of us.
42:37
Sometimes there was 2 blokes that came as well.
42:41
We just look like, because you don't really look sick unless
42:45
people really know you, we just look like a bunch of women all
42:49
grouped together just, you know, sitting around just drinking,
42:52
you know, tea all day. But we knew who was really
42:56
struggling. And the beauty of this group was
42:59
a couple of them were brilliant researchers.
43:01
Me, I just throw myself into everything like I've heard this
43:05
is good. I just go into it wasn't always
43:07
a good idea but have. You got to try.
43:10
Yeah, well, I was so different, desperate to get to get.
43:14
Well, you know, it was I'd gone from.
43:19
I had edible school gardens, so I probably had three schools
43:22
going at once. Then I was president of
43:25
Permaculture Noosa. I was running kids around my
43:30
kids and I had my property. I finally got on my own property
43:36
in 2011. So I was teaching from there as
43:40
well and making this dream come true of having a permaculture
43:44
property. So I and I had like I published
43:49
that in 2010. Yes, eat your.
43:52
Garden garning book I think that was 2011 where a film crew
43:57
followed the. DVD, Yes.
43:59
That's, Yep, that's one of those things.
44:00
Just slot into a machine. Yeah, that comes out on the TV.
44:03
For the kids listening. Bad timing for the film group
44:06
because I got. Yeah, yeah.
44:08
So, you know, I was busy doing talks with that.
44:12
I was living the dream. Like I was so happy.
44:16
But you know, it's it kind of it forces a pivot.
44:20
You're in this lane of just finding your stride in all of
44:24
these. I know things that you're really
44:26
passionate about and finding some success.
44:28
And it felt like the the world had other plans for you.
44:32
But I feel like maybe in hindsight, I don't want to speak
44:36
for you, but I feel. Like.
44:39
Of course, of course. I feel like though, that you're
44:44
the way that it pulled you off to then somebody who's, like you
44:48
said yourself loves a project who could then package what
44:53
you're learning and the experiences from all these other
44:56
people and then give people a resource and a person to look to
45:01
in order to help other people. And I don't, I don't like, I
45:05
don't know necessarily like I don't want to put too much
45:08
together, but I feel like having someone like yourself that is
45:13
able to communicate and share these ideas is the, you know,
45:17
it's the catalyst for then other people to to be able to benefit
45:21
and sort out their their lines as well.
45:24
But you said it's so different for each person.
45:27
And is that because of these secondary things that are coming
45:30
in that are infecting that they bring the tick bite brings in?
45:35
Yeah, and it could be a mozzie or a sand fly or a cat flea
45:40
also, but most people seem to get a tick and each bite has a
45:45
diff, different ingredients. And and they they're like,
45:51
they're the perfect community really.
45:53
They get together and go, OK, where do you all want to go?
45:57
Oh, you want to go the brain. OK, get your team.
45:59
Off you go. Where do you?
46:00
Want to go I want to go the joints.
46:02
OK, off you go. Where do you go?
46:03
I want to go the heart OK, off you go.
46:05
And they all just the merry way and, and it and it moves around
46:11
as as well. And I think one of those like
46:14
there's many scary parts about it.
46:15
I think one of the scariest parts when I realized I was, I
46:18
was, I was losing my memory. And the simplest thing I, and
46:23
this is when I knew I had to stop talking as well because
46:26
people had asked me a question or I started to think something
46:28
was wrong. People had asked me a question
46:31
and I knew I knew the answer, but there was nothing there.
46:34
Oh my, you couldn't grasp the thought.
46:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So, yeah. And and you know, even in our
46:41
group we come back and who's tried blot and and we all found
46:46
different things like there's very few things that we all went
46:49
yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's really good.
46:52
The neighbors chipping. I hope you can't hear.
46:53
It no, no, can't hear it sounds good.
46:55
Good. Yeah.
46:58
And it's just so complicated. And the beauty is like, there's,
47:04
there's more technology out there now, you know, can treat
47:10
with frequency and light and sound and gosh, that.
47:15
Sounds so exciting. Yeah, Yeah.
47:18
So we still got a long way to go because it is so complicated and
47:21
you're and you're on your own. Yeah, you really are in this
47:25
country. You're definitely on your own.
47:28
I, I, I have heard that it can be an extremely frustrating
47:31
thing to figure out how to, that you have it for one and then to
47:35
that, as you say, it's almost impossible to find a specialist
47:41
or somebody that knows it really well and can help you.
47:45
So can you tell me about because obviously you're doing
47:49
fantastically well now, so. What?
47:52
Were the keys to your recovery bearing in mind, with a caveat,
47:57
that this, as we said, it can be fairly personalized?
48:00
So what? What did you do that has helped
48:02
you bounce back to such a brilliant place?
48:05
OK, well the first thing I had to do to get well was I had to
48:09
sell my home because I needed the money.
48:12
I was already, my sister was funding me up to this stage
48:16
going you just pay me back when you can.
48:18
But the debt was getting too high already and I just went,
48:22
you know what, all my friends are having to garden for me
48:25
every week. I can't do it.
48:27
I can't see when I'm going to do it.
48:29
So that was heartbreaking to sell.
48:30
That's. A huge decision.
48:31
Oh yeah, but I just couldn't see when I could ever garden again.
48:36
So you really need money to get well because it's so multi
48:41
layered. Even just to take the pressure
48:45
off, like not having to work to to get the money like that.
48:48
Yeah, well, it couldn't work. Exactly, because you're almost
48:52
24/7 focused on recovery and you don't have the capacity for
48:56
other things. Yeah.
48:58
And most of that time is sleeping.
49:00
So I buy buy all the different frequency machines.
49:06
They are so good, so good. I've heard of the, the Rife
49:09
machine, the there's like there's certain things that
49:13
would say I I honestly believe sound and frequency are the keys
49:17
to healing in our future world personally.
49:20
But I mean, there's not a huge amount of scientific evidence to
49:23
back that up just yet. That doesn't we're getting Yeah,
49:26
well, exactly right. That's that.
49:27
We're dealing with something they won't recognise.
49:29
I wouldn't have to worry about any scientific evidence that's
49:32
true. Yeah, there's the Saira and the
49:35
the by by residents and you just got to make sure that the person
49:39
who's running that they've got knowledge like that, that, you
49:42
know, their background in naturopath or something like
49:44
that. Took a massive amount of
49:46
supplements like this pyramid I'd have on the on the kitchen
49:50
table, which is honestly I'd surprise they didn't rattle
49:56
being in my garden help. I just lie there in the garden.
49:59
That was a huge help. I just watch clouds watch leaves
50:02
full. You know, you're in such slow
50:04
motion and you have to detox a lot.
50:10
So ionic foot baths, saunas, the ho cat, a lot of these I still
50:16
do every week to maintain it because I I'm always, I'm, I'm,
50:22
I'm still trying to get stronger and stronger.
50:23
And then people have the cheek to say to me, yeah, but Leonie,
50:26
you know, you're 10 years older now.
50:28
Go. No, no, you've got it wrong.
50:31
I've got 10 years to make up for.
50:33
You've got it all wrong. I love that.
50:36
Well done. Oh yeah.
50:38
And, and you, you just have to leave this really healthy
50:42
lifestyle. Like there's so many different
50:45
things, like I've got pages and pages at the back of all the
50:48
things I believe you need to do. And a lot of them you just, you
50:53
know, you do from home. And it's, it's really
50:56
frustrating that so many of things that could fix us much
50:59
faster are not available in this country, you know, like ozone.
51:03
And you know, and honestly, if someone was sick with chronic
51:08
lime now and had the money, I'd say head to Mexico, head to
51:12
Greece. Just get out of this country.
51:15
It'll save you lots of money. Do you know what somewhere?
51:18
Else that's, and it's not limited to Lymes as well, I
51:22
fear. I find there is so many of these
51:24
neurodegenerative diseases. Like I, I work with a, a guy
51:27
with Parkinson's disease every week and as part of my
51:30
disability support and just trying to access some of the
51:33
things that help him is just unbelievably difficult.
51:38
Yeah. So, so if people want to go and
51:42
look into more specific things, I want to really point them
51:46
towards your book because I think that's just such a, a
51:48
great resource. And I don't want to go too much
51:51
down the, the practicalities of different things like this.
51:53
But one question I do want to to bring this back to is, is diet
51:57
and nutrition. How much, how much of that was
52:01
important in your recovery? And what are some pointers that
52:04
you might say in terms of diet? Absolutely non negotiable and,
52:10
and actually you become so sensitive to so much food.
52:13
It, it actually became really frustrating for me for food that
52:18
I saw as healthy. But my body now goes na, na, na.
52:23
And medical people say, no, you can't eat all those.
52:26
You can't eat tomatoes anymore or any of that family can't have
52:29
that and you can't have this. And, and it was someone who
52:31
likes a lot of colour on their plate and very restrictive, you
52:34
know, cherry tomatoes. You're like, yeah, so actually
52:40
it it food became so hard because what I knew of going out
52:44
everyday and picking so much variety and eating fresh whilst
52:49
I ate fresh. But no matter where I am, I'll
52:51
find fresh. But it you know, it has to be
52:55
organic. It's non negotiable.
52:56
We can't have any more glycophate in our body that
52:59
already is. So I just had to, at one stage
53:03
they, I was so restricted. They were taking so much out of
53:07
my diet. I actually got too scared to eat
53:11
and I got so thin. Obviously that's changed and,
53:15
and I actually went off and I went, I need, I need someone to
53:18
care for me. I've got to, I've got to a stage
53:21
now where I'm actually too scared to do stuff.
53:24
So I went off to the Hari Krishnas.
53:27
I just needed to be nurtured. They're down in northern NSW and
53:32
I ended up going three times. The first time I was there for
53:35
six days and I didn't want to leave and she told me the next
53:38
visit she goes, we were so worried about you when you
53:44
arrived. We could see you were really
53:45
sick and we just had people checking on you all the time and
53:50
oh, they were just wonderful. They were just so beautiful.
53:54
And the next time I turned up, she said, OK, each morning you
53:59
ought to go in and see the chef and make sure that they've got
54:02
food there you can eat. I said, oh, they will because
54:04
they come out with all these big bowls of food, like 6 different
54:07
types of food. There'll be something I can eat.
54:10
And she's no, there's got to be more than one thing.
54:13
You go in there and you that was.
54:15
So beautiful. That's so.
54:17
They were so nurturing and because I cry every time I left
54:20
think. About.
54:21
Yeah, yeah, I know. You know.
54:24
Some beautiful things, but food is just, you know, and just to
54:28
go into a garden, it's just so important.
54:32
If it's a Botanical Garden or community garden, you know, I
54:35
just feed your soul in other ways.
54:38
And, and I just ate. No, my smoothie has, you know,
54:42
because you've got a like coriander and parsley and all
54:45
those detoxing things are so important.
54:47
I have turmeric and ginger and, you know, packed into it all
54:51
that. Yeah, it's about setting your
54:53
body up to be in the most optimum place to to combat all
54:57
of this. Right.
54:58
And can you talk to me about how much now, for example, how much
55:04
of your symptoms are you battling week to week and what
55:09
are flare ups like for you now? Yeah, unfortunately it never
55:14
leaves your body. Yeah, that's something that's
55:16
crazy in itself. But sorry, keep going.
55:19
And if and this is where I try to avoid stress, yes.
55:23
And of course, my, my actual life is quite structured, like
55:26
for example, the the Queensland Garden Expo where I met you,
55:30
yes, and we haven't even talked about green venue yet, but but
55:36
that that is very controlled. I do a deal with my body
55:39
beforehand and say, OK, you know, I love the Garden Expo.
55:45
The next three days I'm going to be pushing you.
55:47
But I promise you these are the rewards you're going to get.
55:50
The following week we'll have a massage.
55:52
We'll do the Hokat and I do this deal with my body.
55:55
But every time after I give a talk, so I'm giving 2 talks a
55:58
day, I go back to my car because that's the quietest spot.
56:01
The green room's not the quiet spot.
56:04
And I, my esky is full of food. So I have a main meal after
56:08
every talk and I go and have a sleep in my car.
56:10
Yeah. And then I come out again, all
56:12
fresh, ready to go. I must admit, you always looked
56:16
fresh across those days anyway, regardless of whether you're
56:19
talking or not, so whatever you're doing is working.
56:22
Yeah, So it's so I, my life is very balanced.
56:26
I've actually backed off from the strictness of, you know, we
56:30
have it. We used to have a spreadsheet,
56:33
the girls in the group as well. At what time he has to take all
56:35
these tablets? And you would wake up several
56:37
times during the night to take tablets.
56:39
And it took me a couple of years to realize that was ridiculous
56:42
because sleep is the most important thing.
56:45
So I, I'm not as stressed out of like if I go out for lunch, I
56:50
now pretend to be a normal person.
56:52
I don't sit there going, Oh, I can't have that, I can't have
56:56
that. Oh, what?
56:57
I just go, OK, what would you like to eat?
57:00
Because you're not going to react to in this in here.
57:03
I don't have grains, I don't have dairy.
57:04
That's a non negotiable and everything else.
57:06
Like you'll be OK to have that. Just enjoy it and bless it.
57:10
So really strict with food. Very conscious of the people I'm
57:16
around. You know you can't have negative
57:19
people. And the conversations.
57:24
I need my quiet time. I need like every now and again.
57:29
I know, I know when my body needs another Ivi used to get
57:32
them every at least. I don't get them every week
57:34
anymore. Yeah, wow.
57:36
That's what I was one stage, you know, it's and I and I listen to
57:40
my body too. It's like, oh, oh, I know
57:43
exactly when something's trying to take me down.
57:45
It's like 00 and I love the. You're much more in tune, OK.
57:50
Oh, absolutely. In tune and.
57:52
And yeah. Look, I I think.
57:57
Lots of detoxing. Yeah, I I think the how you how
58:02
you phrase the garden show where you're making a deal with your
58:05
body. You're, you're working together
58:09
with your body's capacity and being aware of it, which I think
58:15
so many of us, obviously, you know, like not dealing with
58:19
something like lions. But so many of us in our
58:22
everyday lives are so out of tune and out of touch with how
58:25
our body feels and what certain things putting in has a reaction
58:30
to feel. And it takes something
58:32
unfortunately, like a disease of some kind to exacerbate symptoms
58:37
when you have things that are out of line with what your body
58:41
needs and, and wants. But, but also not just with the
58:44
nutrition, like you said, with the environment that you're in
58:47
that surrounds the people, the being in the garden and feeling
58:51
at peace and having that connection and, and limiting
58:54
that stress. You're not getting up in the
58:56
middle of the night to, to supposedly give something to
59:00
your body, but you're actually taking away the sleep at the
59:02
same time. So you're sort of giving with
59:03
one hand and taking with the other.
59:06
And, and you're learning these, these ways and, and this kind of
59:11
thing. So moving forward, I guess then
59:15
in your journey with limes, with gardening, with speaking
59:20
workshops and things like this, what is it that you hope to
59:26
bring to attention with with limes in particular?
59:29
First and foremost, what is it that you think that we're
59:33
missing as a culture? I'm talking about people that
59:36
don't have limes. So understanding.
59:41
I want to try and make this a little bit more tangible for you
59:44
to give a better answer. Sometimes I can give some really
59:47
vague questions, but I want to know what is it that you really
59:51
hope to leave as a legacy for Lymes?
59:54
Because not just the fact that you can have this better
59:58
relationship with your body, you can have a better understanding
1:00:01
of the nutrition and the things that go into your body.
1:00:04
But what is it about the living with a disease that doesn't
1:00:10
leave your body and that requires constant management?
1:00:14
What is it that's something that people should be aware of?
1:00:17
If they either have it or they don't, does anything come to
1:00:20
mind in that for you? OK, the main, the main reason
1:00:27
for the book, the message for the line people is you can get
1:00:32
better. I like that.
1:00:34
Because that is the scariest part.
1:00:37
And there's lots of things that I mentioned that you can do at
1:00:39
home that we all should be doing at home.
1:00:41
Like, you know, there's so much, so much we can do.
1:00:47
That was the most important message to the line people
1:00:49
because you you're so frightened, you haven't got the
1:00:51
support around you. You get terrible comments from
1:00:54
government agencies that are meant to be there to support
1:00:57
you. And you know, you can get nasty
1:01:00
comments from medics. You know, doctors can kick you
1:01:03
out because you say the word line like get out because
1:01:06
they're, they're worried about losing their license.
1:01:10
OK, that's unbelievable. I can't hear anything, by the
1:01:12
way. OK, I don't.
1:01:14
Know these things come off everywhere living in the
1:01:17
country. So look, that's the main thing
1:01:21
with Lyme for other people. You know, most people actually
1:01:25
do know what Lyme is in Australia.
1:01:26
Cool. It's only the medical and the
1:01:28
government that refused to acknowledge it.
1:01:30
Most it is crazy because when I give a talk, you know, I
1:01:33
mentioned that I've had Lyme disease and I say who who knows
1:01:36
what Lyme is? Most people will put their hand
1:01:38
up Great. But what I well, actually, what
1:01:41
I would really say if you meet someone that says they got Lyme
1:01:45
disease, could you please not say as if you're the only person
1:01:50
that's ever said it to them? Oh, but it's not in this
1:01:52
country. We know that we don't need to be
1:01:56
told it. We'd like the sort of compassion
1:01:59
you would get if, if and I and I'm never going to have cancer
1:02:04
because I don't do it. But if I said I had cancer, what
1:02:08
would people say to me? Yeah, I know.
1:02:12
Can I do something for you? Can I make you some food?
1:02:15
What can I do? We don't get any of that
1:02:17
compassion, ever. It's a shame.
1:02:20
That's such a shame. It doesn't really make sense to
1:02:23
me. It's such a weird thing because
1:02:24
they're like, oh, but it's not here and you've got it because
1:02:26
it's here, isn't it? And like, and it just scrolls on
1:02:29
that conversation. It's like, yeah, I'm already
1:02:32
tired and you're just confusing me even more.
1:02:34
Yeah, yeah. As I'm looking for a little bit
1:02:36
of understanding, compassion. Yeah.
1:02:39
Look, Leonie, let's, let's finish with something that's
1:02:42
that's exciting for you. What's on the top of your mind
1:02:44
at the moment that's exciting you in terms of any kind of
1:02:47
topic to what to do with gardening, permaculture?
1:02:50
What's at the forefront of your mind now that you're interested
1:02:52
or passionate about? I'm most passionate about
1:02:58
people. They've got to get their
1:02:59
nutrition from food. It's got to and, and I'm really
1:03:03
passionate, excited now that people are understanding that
1:03:06
soil is the most important thing to get our health from the soil,
1:03:10
not from the food, that food gets it from the soil.
1:03:13
So that is most exciting. And I just want to tell you a
1:03:17
quick story because I gave a talk at the Men's Club last
1:03:19
week. Sorry, the men's Shed yes, and
1:03:22
that's about 100 or so guys in there.
1:03:24
Really wow that all be retired. And when I came in, it was so
1:03:28
funny because they were going there's a woman like I'd gone,
1:03:31
you know, I'm in the men's zone and I got up and the first line
1:03:34
I said was I just want to answer your first question.
1:03:37
You've got, yes, I am a woman. But you know, here was this, you
1:03:43
know, they were active. They were active minds in these
1:03:46
retired bodies and they were doing so much.
1:03:48
They had gardens there. They were producing some food to
1:03:52
go to Urban Angels, which cook up food to give to families that
1:03:57
can't afford food that are living raffled, not even got it.
1:04:00
Like so many people up here haven't got a roof over their
1:04:03
head and they're living in their cars.
1:04:05
It's appalling. And anyway, it just felt so good
1:04:09
because then you've got teens take control, you've got Danny
1:04:12
out there on a farm with all these teenagers that don't fit
1:04:15
in school, but my goodness, do they fit into the farm and
1:04:18
they're producing huge amount of food for Urban Angels once
1:04:22
again. So here's this little trio that
1:04:25
I've got to meet all of them and and it just makes my heart sing.
1:04:29
You know there's. People doing amazing things.
1:04:33
The government's not looking after all these people that are
1:04:36
living rough, but here's all these people and, and it's and
1:04:40
it's good food. It's not too many noodles
1:04:42
they're giving them. It's food with nutrition.
1:04:46
That's grown with care and and all sorts, isn't it?
1:04:48
Yeah. We've got to go back to
1:04:50
community. It's so important.
1:04:51
More than ever we've got to go back to community.
1:04:54
And the men shared at Marita Door.
1:04:56
They they look out for each other.
1:04:58
If someone hasn't turned up for three meetings, which is 3
1:05:00
weeks, they ring them. If they don't answer, they go
1:05:03
around and see if they're OK, and if, say, a spouse dies or
1:05:08
something, they are constantly making sure that person's all
1:05:11
right. I love that.
1:05:12
I love that. They was, it was just brilliant
1:05:15
and we we all need to do that, look out for each other and and
1:05:19
you never know what you never know what anyone is going
1:05:22
through. It's very true.
1:05:24
That's a very. There we have it, ladies and
1:05:42
gentlemen, I hope that you've made it this far in the
1:05:45
conversation and that you were just as hooked as I was going
1:05:49
through this. I'm so grateful to Leone to
1:05:51
share her story, coming through obviously with this fabulous
1:05:55
school garden program and then going through the absolutely
1:05:59
impossible task of learning how to deal with Lyme's disease and
1:06:03
then turning that into such a successful project in terms of
1:06:07
helping bring awareness, make people feel like they're not
1:06:10
alone in this, and then making a book a resource that people can
1:06:14
then go and share and spread around.
1:06:16
So all of those resources will be in the description.
1:06:20
And I really encourage you please go and check them out.
1:06:22
Or if you know somebody that's struggling with this or
1:06:25
seemingly might have a couple of symptoms that we mentioned
1:06:27
today, send them the book or send them some information to
1:06:31
this conversation and let them know they're not alone and there
1:06:34
are other people out there that can really, really help you if
1:06:37
you know where to look. So thank you very much for
1:06:41
listening. Thank you so, so much to Leone.
1:06:43
I'm really, really grateful to her for her time and the passion
1:06:46
and energy and what she shared today.
1:06:48
So go and check out her links. And if you enjoyed the episode,
1:06:51
share it around to your friends, Leave a review, any kind of
1:06:55
thoughtful comments, any form of stars, hopefully five stars
1:07:00
would absolutely mean the world to me.
1:07:01
That's the number one thing you can do to help me support this
1:07:04
show and spread it to more people.
1:07:07
So that's it. Thank you so much for another
1:07:08
episode. That was episode 40.
1:07:10
We're absolutely ticking through.
1:07:11
We're nearly finished our first year.
1:07:13
So I look forward to the next episode.
1:07:15
Take care and see you next time. Bye for now.