Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 28: Surviving to Thriving ft. Charlamagne Tha God

Transcript

EP 28: Surviving to Thriving ft. Charlamagne Tha God · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Learn the Hard Way. My name is Q Gaines.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: We talk about purpose.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: We talk about pressure.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: We talk about what it actually takes to become a full,
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: comprehensive man.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: You don't got to get the clear coat.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I don't want my shit shiny, though. I want my
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: joint matte.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: But if you wouldn't get in the clear coat, that's shiny. No.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe I'm saying it wrong. The joint I get
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: is like, uh, like it looks just like.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Polished. No, it's not polished. It's not polished. It's definitely
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: not polished. It's not polished. They put my little fingers
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: in the oven and shit. It's not polished. That is polished.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: They say gel.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Gel polish.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Everybody, everybody a goddamn expert now. All right, I'm about
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: to intro this podcast. Matter of fact, I didn't keep that.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: What's up, y'all? Welcome to it. It's not polished.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: It's definitely polished. It's not polished. It is 100% polished.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: There's nothing wrong with it. I know people that are
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: getting full designs now. I know men that get full
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: designs now.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: And that's fine if that's what they want to do.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: That's just me.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: That ain't bad. That's not my thing either.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: So we're going to break this a little bit differently. Today,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: my guest is Charlemagne.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: He's already, my guest is Charlemagne the God. And we already,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: my producer said that we was partying before we were partying.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: But let me recollect and start this thing for y'all.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: What's up, y'all?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Learn the Hard Way podcast.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I am your host, Kier Gaines. I am a husband.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: I am a father. I am, I'm an author. I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: am New York Times bestselling author. Come on now.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Love it when they don't let me forget that I'm
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: a New York Times bestselling author and I am a
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: person who is very visible now. I lived a life
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: where I worked in education for a long time and
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: I worked in the community and I was visible only
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: to the people that I work with. But last month,
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: about 89 million people viewed all of my social media channels.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: There's more people in the world that know me than
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: But today, because I want to talk about thriving and
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: I want to talk about surviving and I see the
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: way my career is going and I really need to
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: speak to somebody who's already there and also drop some
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: jewels of wisdom about what it takes because this person
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: does a lot.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Can I introduce you and all your stuff real quick?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So listen, y'all. Charlemagne the God has built an empire
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: being unbothered.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, don't do all that. Don't read that. They sent
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: you that? Yeah, let me get it over with. Oh, God,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I hate that. Yo, it's so uncomfortable when people do this.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I hate it every time. They be doing it before
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I hop on stage. I'm like, please, God. All right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: No, I'm doing this. Leave me alone.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: So he built an empire on being unbothered.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: The Breakfast Club, the Black Effect Podcast Network, a New
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: York Times bestseller.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: A Radio Hall of Fame plaque. You got the Radio
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame? Radio Hall of Fame, yeah. That was
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: a couple years ago, right? That was 2020. Yep. Yeah, 2020.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Congratulations, Bobby.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Ooh, they adding more stuff as I talk. A Hollywood star.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, I haven't received it yet. I guess I have.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I'm getting it. The ceremony's not until next year, though.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Next September. Congratulations.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you feel all the accomplishments, man? Like,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: it's a lot. Do they still feel like, oh, this
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: is special? Is it like another thing?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You know what it is?
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: When other people feel special about it. Because I think
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: I'm too nonchalant about everything. Because at the end of
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: the day, all of that stuff is great and I
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: am appreciative of it. But, you know, I'm just, I
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: don't know, man. My mind is just always someplace else.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: Like I said, I'm appreciative of it and I'm grateful
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: for it. But I feel validated already. Once I got
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: to that place of worthy in my life, You know
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: what I mean? Like where God makes me feel like
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: I'm worthy. Well, I can look in the mirror and say, man,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: you know what? I'm doing what God wants me to do.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: I was validated from that moment.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Man, I feel the same way.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: People make me feel crazy sometimes because they'll say things like.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Like, no, you really need to sit in this moment.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: And it's like, I get it for you. But like,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: but this happens every day. Like, you need to be
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: appreciated and celebrated. I'm overly appreciated. I'm overly celebrated and
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: validated every day. It's cool. I appreciate this, but it
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: just don't stick on me the way people would think
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: it would.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: You should sit in the moment, though.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying I don't sit in a moment, but
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: I can only sit in it for so long because
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: I'm still a father.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I still got.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I'm still a husband.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: I'm still got other things that require my attention.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But I can't sit in it for as long as
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: people expect. Man, I'm trying to finish your joint, your resume.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: He has a black privilege book imprint with Simon and Schuster.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: That is true. That is very true. That's crazy.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: We got Little John's book coming out October 20th. Since
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: this is a New York Times, since I'm on a
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: podcast with somebody who's a New York Times bestseller, I
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: need to promote some books. Little John's book comes out
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: October 20th. It's called I Only Shout So You Can
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Hear Me.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: That's what it's called. Dead serious? Dead serious.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: And it's actually, man, it's funny because, you know, people
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: think it's going to be, it's a memoir and people
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: think it's going to be largely about music.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It's really just a book about mindfulness. I can see that.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: The way he is moving now. That's right. Like post-music career.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: That's what I would expect. And that's actually what I
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: want to hear from him. But yeah, Charlamagne Tha God
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: is my guest. Brother, thank you so much for hopping
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: on the pod.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: As busy as you are, you are one of the
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: fastest return texters I've ever met in my life.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: I don't see why. If I don't return your text
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: passes because I really don't want to talk to you.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Like seriously, like it's like there's no reason not to
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: return a text pass unless you just unless you miss
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: it or don't see it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I might miss a text. Right.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: And I'd be like, oh, shoot, let me hit that
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: person back. I might see it and mean to respond,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: but I might be driving.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: Or in the middle of something. So I can't text
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: right back with my, you know, clear mind. Like sometimes
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: somebody will text you and you want to actually give
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: them a text. intentional response, right? Like a thoughtful response.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: But if I'm not able to do that, then I'll
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: wait until I'm, you know, a more clear mind before.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I do it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: But other than that, it's just like, yo, the phone
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: is right by you at all times for the most part.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, why am I not texting back? God bless you, brother.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I just don't feel like responding in the moment.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I'm with you.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I get it. I can't believe that you text back
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: that fast. That's like the most surprising thing. But yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: it's so many things I want to talk to you about.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: I know I'm running out of time before I get
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: the opportunity.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: To let's chat, man.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: But it's, it's like you, who.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You are now.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: There's so many people who know you. Like, I feel
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: like your, your name and your personality is a brand
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: to itself. Like it walks in a room before you do.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Want to kind of talk to like, go back, like
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: who you were early in your life, how you started,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: because it was your mom, a teacher.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: English teacher. Yes, sir. She was the English teacher.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: And, uh, the Bert started in the Charleston County school system.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: Cause she used to teach at, uh, Courtney Middle School
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: in downtown Charleston. So I used to go to school
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: in downtown Charleston as well. I used to go to
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: Memoji Elementary in like first grade. And then we moved
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: to Monk's Corner in my second grade year. And that's
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: when my mother started teaching. I think she might have
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: been at St. Stephen at the time. But we were
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: more in the country at that point. But yes, she
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: was definitely an English teacher.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: That's a South Carolina deep cut.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Charleston, by the way, has an underrated food culture, man.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Underrated? Underrated.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I don't think it gets celebrated enough.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: You know what? You might be right because we right
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: up there with New Orleans, but people don't talk about it. No, no,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you're right. You might be right. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: But I know as a kid, I don't know what
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: you originally wanted to do, but did you see any
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: of this for yourself?
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, because I can remember doing things like standing in
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: my grandmother's yard and pretending I was on a stage.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Like, that would be my thing to do. Oh, man,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I was young because, you know, I'm one of them
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: latchkey kids.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, I grew up in the era where
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: we would get dropped off on the bus, second, third grade.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: I would walk down the dirt road to my grandmother's
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: house and wait for my grandmother to come home because
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: my grandmother was the lunch lady. You know, God bless
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: the day. She was the lunch lady in Moscow, South
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Carolina at R.A. Ready Intermediate.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So she would get home before, you know, my mother
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and everybody else.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: And so I would get dropped off there and I'd
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: be in the yard, literally, because she had like, it
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: was like my grandmother's house. And then it was like
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: a big field that separated my grandmother's house and my
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: cousin Gloria's house. And I would be standing at the
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: edge of that field pretending it was a stage. So
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: I always had visions of being on a stage, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: I guess entertaining people, you know, because it would go from,
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Pretending to be in a rock band and pretending to
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: be a rapper and pretending to just give speeches and
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: like talk to people like, you know.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: My fellow Americans, like, you know, I mean, things like that.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: Like, so I always knew that I would be on
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: stage talking to people in some way, shape or form.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: And the materializing of this.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, listen, I used to want to rap. Right.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So I was nice with it. I thought I was.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: You've been you've been critical of of Bama's rap skills.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I thought I was.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: But then, you know, when you don't realize you're dealing
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: with high anxiety. and then you got to get in
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: front of people and actually perform.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, okay. It don't hit the same, right?
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: So when I'm sitting in my room just writing and
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: reciting it to myself, yeah, but then when I got
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: to actually get in front of a microphone or actually
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: go into a studio and try to record something, it never,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: you know, quite sounded right. But that's why you got
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: to have great people in your life, great mentors, like
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: my man, Dr. Robert Evans, who literally told me, look,
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: you suck as a rapper, but You got a great
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: eye for talent.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And he said, and you can write. And he said,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: you're really good at radio.
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: He said, focus on those three things and you could
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: be one of the best to ever do it in
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: that radio business. And he was he had him and
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: his son, my man, DJ Bless. They had a record
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: label called Never So Deep Records. And so I was
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: an A & R for, you know, Never.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: So Deep Records.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: And we at the time, we put out an artist
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: from South Carolina named Infinity the Ghetto Child. And he
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: was signed to MCA. There used to be a label
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: called MCA. So we had a major label deal. I
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: remember MCA from back when they did the box, the video.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: So we had a major label deal back in, oh,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: this was 99, 98, 99, maybe 2000.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: I've been outside for a long time.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: So, damn. What's funny is I used to work in education.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I used to work at the school for kids that
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: got kicked out of public schools. And everybody wanted a hoop.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Everybody thought that they were going to the NBA. Nobody
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: was above five foot seven. And they were coming to
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: the office like, Gaines, man, I'm going to the league.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: I don't need to worry about no SAT, Bob. I said,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you're not. And this isn't to diminish you, bro. It's
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: just to be honest with you so you can know
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: what your prospects realistically are. You're not that good. You're
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: not that guy at basketball like that. You know, this
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: is after we established love and rapport and all that.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: But you know what you're really good at? You're really
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: good at public speaking. You know what you're really good at?
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: You can count really well, man. Let's lean into some
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: of them other skills because I don't think Georgetown going
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: to pick you up at 5'6.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: You know what you did? Shooting 30 from beyond the arch.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I have a principle.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I wrote about it in my first book, Black Privilege
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: Opportunity Comes to Those Who Create It, right?
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: And it's called Fuck Your Dreams. That's the name of
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the chapter.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Fuck Your Dreams. But- The full title is Fuck Your
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: Dreams If It's Not Your Dream. Because a lot of
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: times we see things, you know, if you're a black
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: man growing up in a certain environment, like the people
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: that we see are successful, they're usually in some form
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: of entertainment or sports.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Your rhymes is hot.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: You got a wicked jump shot.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: So we gravitate towards either one of those fields because
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: we're just all trying to be successful. So it's like
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: when the people that you see who look like you
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: are successful and they're all in these two industries, You
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: run towards either one of those industries, but guess what?
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: That's not really your dream. You just see something working
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: for somebody else.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: You got a narrow aperture. Like, that's all you see,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: so you don't even know what the other possibilities are.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: That's right. You don't know who you are.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: You don't know what God instilled in you to do
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: because you are so focused on those two things because
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: that's all you've seen. That's why, man, transcending your circumstances
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: is important. I don't think people realize how important it
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: is to take people— And, you know, bring them to
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: an environment or show them things that they're not used
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: to seeing because all it does is plant seeds.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: And when those other seeds are planted, when those new
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: seeds are planted, new crops will grow, man.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: You can't be what you can't see and you can't
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: flee what you can't see. Like you can't. When I
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: grew up in my neighborhood, everybody who had money was,
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: you know, was a drug dealer. So I was like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: all right, let me try my hand at that.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Terrible.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I wasn't any good at it either. Horrible drug dealer.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: You come to me on a Friday like, man, I
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: need this extra money. I mean, I need, dog, let
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: me just get a little bit more treat. I had
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: a rough day. Your week was bad. Let me slide
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: you something. Making negative money out there. But you talk
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: about like boyhood. And when I talk about black boyhood,
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: there is this, like this concept of self-protection and being tough.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And I can't speak for your experience.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Maybe yours is different.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: But there was a certain age where I realized, like,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: my mama can't save me from the neighborhood. I appreciate
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: all the love you've given me. But once I'm outside, like,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: it's wolves outside. And you telling me to turn the
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: other cheek, that don't work for me. And you telling
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: me that I'm better than that and to rise above it,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: you can't rise above getting punched in the face. Like
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: at some time, at some point you got to retaliate
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: or you got to not not retaliate. I don't know
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: if that's the right message, but at some point you
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: have to figure out how to better protect yourself when
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: the care for you just just isn't around. Do you
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: have like an early memory of having to protect yourself?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. We was always fighting. That was almost like
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a rite of passage. You know what I mean?
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: But the fighting was different back then, though, because I
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: feel like we was scrapped, and then we'd be cool afterwards.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Nobody was going to go get the strap out to Trump.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: But, boy, you had some people that beat the dog
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: shit out of you. I remember the first time I
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: got the dog shit beat out of me. I'm talking
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: about beat. I mean, beat.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Like, God damn. What happened? Did you stop already? You
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Mr. Clean Magic erased the phone. Man, man.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: I was still in school. Yeah, I was still in school.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: And I was going to my homeboy house.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And I was high.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: And I had been running my mouth on the phone
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: to one of my homegirls. And about this other dude.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: And I ain't even say nothing crazy. I was just like,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: oh man, he think he hard.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That's just how we used
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to talk back in the day, right? Oh, you think
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: he hard.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: I didn't even, it was one of those things that was,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: it was such a throwaway statement. I don't even remember
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: saying it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: And so I'm, my homeboy wasn't home. So I'm just like,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: I'm going back home. So I'm walking back home. So,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: you know, at the top of my dirt road, it's
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: a highway. So, you know, you're driving, you can be
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: driving down the highway or turn off on these little
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: dirt roads. You know how it is in the country.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: So I'm at the top of my dirt road. This
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: person's on the highway. They swing the car around. They
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: swing the car around, pull up, pull on the dirt road.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: Dude jumps out. He's like, yo, you said such and such.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, huh? Mind you, I'm high. I'm like,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: why would I say something about him? But I did
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: not even recall. And he was like, nah, you said
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: such and such. And I'm like, oh, shit, I did
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: say that. And he was like, yo, we got to
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: get it on. And he threw a punch at me
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: and I maneuvered out of the way. and hit him
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: back and it had no effect on this human. Oh,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: that's the worst. And he went and picked me up
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: and boom, in a ditch and then just proceeded to
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: go crazy. I mean, just blow after blow after blow
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: after blow to the point that the people he was
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: with had to pull him off me.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: That's why I got this, you see this scar right there? Yeah.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: That's from that. Damn.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: That scar. Because, man, all of this was so swollen.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: And when it went down, it was just a knot.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: Like that was just sitting there. It was just like
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: a knot. Like literally just a knot. And I forgot
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: what it was. I think it was like cartilage or
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: something that never went down. So I had to go
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: get it surgically removed. And mind you, this was the 90s.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: And I still got the scar from it. And I
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: remember after he beat me up and I finally got
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: to my feet, he had me in a chokehold. And
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: that's when they broke it up. It was like, oh,
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: you're going to choke him out. And what's crazy is
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: that same guy ended up going to prison for choking
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: somebody and breaking their neck.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Bro just had it in him. Like, you just so
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: happened to be on the venue that day.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: He was one of them ones. Yeah. No, no, no.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: He was one of them ones.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: But, like, what message does that send you?
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? When you young. I'm guessing
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you were high school roundabout? Yeah, I was definitely in
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: high school. Because I remember after I didn't even... After
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I got beat up, I went to....
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: I went to my mom's house, but the trailer we
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: I grew up in was still in the back because
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: I grew up in a single wide trailer. But then
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: my dad had built my mom like this ranch style house.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: So I was I went to go sit in the
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: single wide trailer and just lay in my old bed
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: that I grew up in as a kid. And I
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: was just sitting there like, God. damn, what was that? Like,
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean? That was my first time
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: ever getting my ass, like, whipped, like, mollywhopped. Man, when
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: you get cooked like that, man, you were hooked.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: No, no, you don't understand. You don't get it. Like,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: stir fry. Well, no, I've had my ass whipped. Like,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: that was a different type of cooking.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Nah, I've had my ass whipped, but I never had
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: nothing surgically removed, man.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Is that, how does that, like, how do you move
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: after that?
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Because you come across now with this very cavalier nonchalant
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: nothing bothers me never let him see you sweat type
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: of guy even if it's just the way you move
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: topically on the surface I can't imagine a version of you.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: That like came into school the next day with his
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: head down.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't go. That's my point.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: Like I sat there in that, I sat there in
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: that trailer and I didn't even put no ice on it.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know what to do. Like, cause I'd
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: never been in that situation.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: And so I told my mom and dad that I
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: got hit by a door or something. My dad was
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: like hit by a door, huh? He knew that was
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: like hit by a door. So I didn't, I didn't
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: go to school. And you got to think this is
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: before social media or anything else.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: So everybody's like, Man, I already got his ass kicked.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: But it was only two people or three people that
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: saw it because it was the dude that did it.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: And then it was the two people that was with him. Right.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But I didn't go to school. So all I had
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to do was avoid folks.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like that impacted you at all throughout
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: your life?
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it impacted me in the way that, you know,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: I understand the consequences of my words.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like I tell people all
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the time, free speech is not free.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Man, we've talked about that in this book, too.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Free speech is not free. You are entitled to say
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: whatever you want. But also.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: But you got to deal with the consequences of it
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: in some way, shape or form.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Man, every time somebody say something crazy to me on
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: the Internet, I don't respond back because it's just not
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: worth it. But sometimes I just think to myself, like,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: I think people forgot that you can get punched in
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: your face in real life.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, man.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm telling you, I be saying it's funny
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: because there's people that I love and I'll say to
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: them sometimes, like, man, it might need to be a
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: little violence.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Like, just a little. Yeah.
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Like, nothing to make us lose everything that we got.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: But boy, man.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Just a scoach of violence in there.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: I want people to get raised the way that I
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: was raised. You know what I'm saying? Adults, not kids.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're talking about raised up as adults through that dance?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, adults, adults.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: If you're an adult person talking a certain way, you
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: got to deal with the consequences of it. Like when
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: I got punched in the face, you know, going inside
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: the radio station back in the day.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know nothing about that.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was walking into the radio station, some dudes
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: punched me in the back of the head, had it
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: on camera, and everything.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: That's all over online, right?
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: But what can I do? I know what I was saying.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to sit here and act obtuse like
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what I was saying about people, right?
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: This is a good word, by the way. So somebody
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: going to pull up on you. Somebody going to pull
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: up on you and somebody going to want to see
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: about you. So I'm the type of person, when I
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: see people talking crazy I want you to have to
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: deal with some consequences.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Straight up. I need you to deal with some consequences.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And you got me thinking.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: So on Facebook years ago, man, this this this guy
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I know was making jokes about this other guy.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And I thought it was hilarious. I was laughing.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: This was a long time ago, maybe a decade plus ago.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: And I was in a grocery store about four months ago.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: And this dude big, man. And he rolled up on me.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: He tapped me on my shoulder. He said, yeah, man,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: what's up, dog? I was like, what's up? And he
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: was like, yeah, you remember me? I said, nah, who you?
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: And I realized he was closing too much distance on me.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: So I backed up a little bit.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I said, what's up, bro?
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, you was talking all that shit on Facebook, right?
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: I was talking shit about you on Facebook. I couldn't
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: remember this dude's name or face.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And then it clicked.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: I went to high school with him. And I was like, oh,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: it's like, yeah. He said his name. I'm like, oh, yeah,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I remember you now. He said, yeah, all that shit
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: you was talking on Facebook.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, dog? I said, what's up with what, bro?
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: And the more he talked, the more I realized that
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: something happened and I wasn't where he was. Come to
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: find out it was somebody else who said something he
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: don't like that I added on like a laugh to it.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Back in the day, it just we would have been scrapping.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: It's not a problem. Are you bigger than me? This
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: is what's about to happen.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: You ain't about to get all up on me like that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: You know what I did? I apologized to bro. I said, bro,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I said, but clearly it struck
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: a nerve with you. I said, I'm so sorry, bro.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: I really didn't mean to hurt your feelings. And he
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: didn't even back off on the hurt feelings thing, but
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: it softened him a little bit.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: And he was like, nah, man, because you don't talk
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: about people like that. I said, yeah, I agree.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: He said, I don't remember, but clearly it was important.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I was like, that wasn't right, man. That ain't no problem.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I was like, no, it is a problem. And it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: okay that it's a problem. But I'm really sorry about.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: That, man.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: That was big in my manhood journey.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: But you're dealing with a healed, you got a healed ego. Like,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: you're not dealing with a wounded ego. You know what
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: I'm saying? If you're dealing with a wounded ego and
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: somebody approach you like that, you'll feel like you have
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: something to prove.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know?
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: But if you're dealing with a healed ego, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: you're going to apologize, especially if you knew you were wrong.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Especially if it's a part of your character. or was
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: a part of your character at one time that doesn't
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: exist anymore. You just got to be open about that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: But I want to ask you a question, man, because
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: when we just talking about talking and biting tongues and
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: saying what you want to say, when I think about you,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: I think about a person who says whatever they want
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: to say. And you had an interview with Stephen Colbert,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: which is crazy to say out loud, by the way,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: but you had an interview with Stephen Colbert. You said
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: you pivoted away from the bite my tongue for no
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: one mantra. And you take people's healing process into consideration
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: with interviewing them. When that changed for you?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Because you just never know what people are dealing with.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but at what point in your career did you
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: realize that's the way I'm about to start moving?
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: It's going to sound crazy, but when you realize that
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: people are human beings just like you are, I think
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of times when you're on the outside looking in,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: you see it a lot now, right? That's why I
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: can always recognize it in other so-called media personalities, right?
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Because the reality is they can, they look at other
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: people and they say to themselves, that person is not
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: even a real person to them. Like that's just a
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: rapper or that's just a, you know, that's just a
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: restaurant owner. Like, so we don't even treat people like people.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: We treat them like product. And we feel like we
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: can just talk about product any old kind of way.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: And by the way, you're entitled to your opinion, but
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: I think that we all know there's a difference between
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: constructive criticism and just the slander that we see a
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: lot of times on social media. And man, and this
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: is something I would even give you as a piece
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: of advice. I realized that when people would come in
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: for interviews, there was a period where I was making
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: it about me. I wasn't interested in what that person said.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: was saying, like, my intention was, I'm going to get
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: these jokes off, you know.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to make people laugh. Make a moment.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Because make a moment, you know what I'm saying? Because
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: when people go online, when I go online later, I
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: want them to be talking about what I said to
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: such and such or what I did to such and such. And,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: you know, it was coming from a real place, right?
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: Because it wasn't like I was making stuff up.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Like, it was like, yo....
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: This happened to this person or that happened to this person.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: Like I'm going to ask them about it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: That's like, this is the most obvious thing. Like, why
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: are we ignoring the elephant in the room? And so
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: that was my approach to things. But then two things happened.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Number one, you realize most of this shit ain't true.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: That you hear about people. So it's like, why even
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: entertain it? And then number two, people are human. And man,
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: you talking about that dude who approached you and, and
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: he remembered something that happened on Facebook way, way back
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: in the day. Yo, these people, they're humans. They're the
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: same way. They're going to remember that joke you made
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: that hurt their feelings, that really hurt their soul, whether
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you said it to them, whether you said it about
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: them on social media. And there's people out there that
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: might never, ever want to deal with me in any way,
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: shape or form because of something I said, you know,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: 15 years ago.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I got to deal with that. They're not wrong. They're
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: not wrong.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: So you just like accept it. Like, hey, you got
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: the right to feel that way.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I totally get it. I know the headspace that
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I was in, you know, back then. And I'm aware
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: of what, you know, I may have said, you know.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: And if I did say it, hey, I get it.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: You have every right to. to feel the way that
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: you feel. But like, I'm just like you. If I
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: hear something that I feel like I probably should apologize for,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: I don't have no problem doing that. Or if you
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: tell me, man, man, that offended me, that hurt my feelings. Like, yo,
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: I've been thinking about this for such and such years.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: I don't want nobody to feel like that, though. When
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: you start going to therapy, man, and you start doing
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: the work on yourself and you start understanding what boundaries
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: and protecting your peace feel like, You don't want to
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: disturb nobody else's.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Peace, man. Man. At all. So I don't want nobody
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: to wake up.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: In the morning, come to Breakfast Club, sit down, have
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: a conversation, and leave because their peace is, leave with
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: their peace disturbed.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: It's a part of me that wonders, man, now that
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: you in this place and you have so.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Much recorded content.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Too much.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous how much time it takes.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I've been on the radio 28 years.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: You can't even remember everything that you said.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: It's impossible.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: When you go back and you look at some of
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: the old things and you may have said something or
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: made a comment that isn't aligned with who you are
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: right now at this big age, this place in your life,
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: all that, do.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You feel anything?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Do you feel any type of regret or have you
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: made peace with it?
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Or both? I've made peace with it for a lot
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: of reasons, right?
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: Number one, I don't think you should ever judge nobody
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: for what they was going through when they was in
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: survival mode.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: And when I first got on Breakfast Club, I was 100%
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: in survival mode. I literally had just gotten, you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: I had gotten fired for the fourth time from radio.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: I was living with my mom for, you know, a year,
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: collecting unemployment checks.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I had a three-year-old at the house.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: Like, when I got back on that radio in New York,
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: it was anybody could get it. The stomach was grumbling. Yo, no,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: I'm not going back to that, right? So anybody could
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: get it in that moment. And I just feel like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: why should I be ashamed for what I didn't know?
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: I think we do that to ourselves too much, Kia. Like,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: I think that we shame ourselves for things that we
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: didn't know. We were doing the best we had with
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: the knowledge and the wisdom that we had at the time.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Muhammad Ali said it, the person who thinks that 50,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: the same way they thought at 20, wasted 30 years
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: of their life. So if I can go back and
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: look at 20 and be like, man, I don't, Jesus Christ,
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: I don't even believe that now, right?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That's a good thing.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: The person you should be concerned about is the person
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: at 50 that looks at something they said at 20
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: and was like, yeah, I'm still on that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Like, nah. The wallpaper ain't changed, man. That's always indicative
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of a bigger issue.
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: So I can't have too much regret for it. And also,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: I really do truly feel like I was the person
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: that God wanted me to be in those moments. You
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: know what I mean? Because I sit back and I look,
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: I love the way my life has gone. I love
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: the trajectory of my life because I can be used
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: as an example of evolution.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And growing up, what I gravitated towards was all of
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: those examples of evolution. First book my dad ever gave
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: me was the autobiography of Malcolm X.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: And when you read that book and you see how,
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: you know, Malcolm Little evolved into Malcolm X and how
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: he evolved into Malcolm X, and then you're introduced to
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, and you see
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was able to do with
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: the worst, the worst of us, how he was able
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: to help those brothers and sisters evolve to become the
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: best versions of themselves.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Like, that's what it's all about to me.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: That's why I love where we're at in hip-hop right now.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I love looking at the maturation of human beings.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: I love to see Jay-Z go from Reasonable Doubt to 4-4-4.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: I love to see Kendrick Lamar go from Good Kid,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Mad City to Mr. Morale and the Big Step. I
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: love the maturation of hip-hop. It's a beautiful thing to witness.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: It's something also about seeing rappers grow old. And seeing,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: it's something about watching black men grow old that feels
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: really special to me.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: We supposed to grow old. Yeah.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: Luther Young Dolph and his team, you know, Young Dolph's wife,
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: that's her whole foundation.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Black men are supposed to grow old. Yeah, man.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And I was a huge Dolph fan. I still am.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: But yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's something about, uh, he got this line
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: playing high and go seek in the mansion with my
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: little girl.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: He says, Aria.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's in one of his songs and it,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: it hits me every time. Because, like, man, that man
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: had a vision for the type of dad he wanted
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: to be in life, had other plans. Sometimes you can't
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: outrun your past. You know what I'm saying?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one, man. That is,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: those are the ones that keep me up at night.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: It's funny, I was out last night. We were recording
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: this on a Monday, but I was out last night.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: And the reason I didn't mind being out late last
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: night is because, like, it's hard for me to sleep
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: on Sundays. And the reason it's hard for me to
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: sleep on Sundays is because The Nipsey Hussle got killed
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: on a Sunday.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: And I remember receiving.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: That news and how traumatizing that was, right?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And that had me disturbed. Still disturbing me to my
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: spirit right now. Same, same.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: Because I never wanted to watch the video. I don't
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: like that, what I call it, that... The gore stuff?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't want to call it hood porn, but
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: it's just like... Oh, trauma porn. Trauma porn, right? I
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: don't like the trauma porn. You know what I mean?
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: And it's like, Somebody sent me the video and I
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: didn't know what it was. And so I ended up
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: seeing it and I saw him get shot. And then
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: I saw when dude kicked him. And it's that kick
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: that disturbs me every time.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: That's the dehumanizing part, man.
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: And it made me, for the first time ever in
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: my life, have empathy for the actual killer.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Because I was like, that dude right there is hurting me.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: In a way that I don't ever want to hurt.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: That dude right there is experiencing pain.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: In a way that I don't ever want to feel
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: it because to project that onto somebody else, you already
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: shot this man, but to shoot him and then kick him.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. And then the other traumatic thing that
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: happened on a Sunday, Kobe Bryant.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: That still don't feel real to me. I remember looking
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: at my phone and just blinking. And I felt like
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: the more I blink, maybe I was seeing it wrong.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: And I remember one of my homies called me and
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: me and him were just on the phone for 15 minutes.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: We didn't say a word.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: I was at my daughter's cheerleading competition. So in my mind,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: so think about where you go as a black man, right?
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: And I think Kobe was, I think we were on
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: the same age. I think he was born in 77
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: to 78. But think about where you are as a
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: black man. I'm at my daughter's cheerleading competition. So I'm
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: doing the same. I woke up and did the same
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: thing he did that morning. going to participate in the
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: extracurricular activity with one of your children, one of your daughters.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: He got up taking his daughter out to basketball practice
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: on a Sunday morning. I'm at a cheerleading competition on
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: a Sunday morning with my daughter. And then, like, you're
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: just not here.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: It's gone just like that.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no way as black men you can look
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: at either one of those situations and them situations didn't
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: hit you.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: In your soul. So it's like, it's hard for me
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to sleep on Sundays.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: So last night I was out and it's weird because
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I was happy to be out because I was like, yeah,
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: I'd be home tossing and turning in the bed, trying
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: to read a book, doom scrolling, you know what I mean?
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Binge watching something like, so I had no problem being
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: out just because of those.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: You know, traumatic experiences that I experienced on those Sundays
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: that keep me up.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Reminds you is just how finite life is, man, and
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: how you got to do something with it. I say
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: this because there's a lot more that I want to
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: ask you. And I hate.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Having good conversations on this pod because they always end
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: too soon.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: But one thing that bothered me about the Kobe death
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: that I never got off is the fantasy making of
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: black men being emotional. They couldn't keep the camera off.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Out of those basketball players faces. Oh, hey, I about
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: to cry. Let's see if we can finally watch black
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: men be emotional. And that bothered me, man. There's something
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: deeply dehumanizing about that to me, because I think that
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: folks don't see it very often. So it's maybe they
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: think it doesn't exist or perhaps they get access to
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: something special and sacred. But it's like the men couldn't
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: even have a moment to be sad without the camera
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: two inches away from their nostrils.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: That disturbed me.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: I never thought about that being dehumanizing because, and I'm
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: not saying that it's not.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: It's just never a thought that I thought about.
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: Because in a way, I look at it as like
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: such a teachable moment, right?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: And there's nothing to say that it can't be both.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, those guys are superstars who usually get put
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: on camera anyway. But now they're being asked about something
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: that really hit them in a different way, right?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Like that was a lot of those guys' hero.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: So for them to cry about that, it just makes
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: sense because they're human.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe that was what was shocking to people in that moment.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Like, God dang, these big six foot tall individuals who
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: are these super freakish athletes, they're actually just, they're actually
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: just human.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I get that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a perspective, too, that probably evaded
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: me because maybe this is a particular personal bugaboo of mine.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: But I feel like it was informing.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: But at the expense of these men, it kind of
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: reminds me of the black people don't feel pain type thing.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, you actually do cry sometimes. What did you think
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I do when I get sad?
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Just like this unrelenting, never ending narrative of.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: The super patriarchal black man who doesn't feel feelings or
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: have emotions or experience remorse.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: That's why I think it's good when they cry. Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's, I think it's good.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Anytime you see black men, especially showing real emotion other
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: than violence, because don't get it fucked up. Violence is
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: an emotion too. Like you're projecting pain. You're projecting hurt, right?
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: You're transferring trauma. onto another individual because of what you're
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: dealing with. You know, you see it, you see it
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: all the time. Like nine times out of 10, when
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: a guy does something that is, that is violent, it's because.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: They're transferring pain. Yeah. I see violence.
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: Or, or, or, or somebody was running their mouth too goddamn.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: They needed to get some discipline.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Violence. Yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I see violence as more of an action than emotion,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: but I'll, I'll take, I'll try to put on that perspective.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: And try to see that in another way. You don't
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: think it could be an emotion? Violence?
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, violence isn't an emotion. It's an action. Just
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: like feeling disrespected isn't really an emotion. Violence, what propels
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: you and motivates the violence is undergirded by an emotion.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah. No, I don't just, yeah, I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: want to hear more. Teach, teacher, what you mean? Man,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I got like 30 questions I want to ask.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: You, man, because I want to learn how to enjoy it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: It's like if I decide to start shooting because I
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: feel like there's no way out, the violence isn't the emotion.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: The hopelessness is the emotion. And the hopelessness is what
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: pushes me to the act of violence. Violence is the act.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: emotion is kind of like the carrier.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Emotion is the, the emotion is the bridge and there's
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: multiple things, especially for men that don't see emotions in
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: themselves or try to rebrand and shit.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Like, nah, I'm not scared. I'm just concerned. You scared.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: And it's okay.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: When you don't, when you're doing all this work to
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: rebrand the way you really.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Feel, it turns into something different.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: And now you don't got the right definition on the
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: right thing.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: You don't see it coming.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: You can't manage it when it's on top of you.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: You can't handle it after it leaves. You can't see it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: You can't see when it's about to arrive.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: What you said is very true because that's doubling down
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: on fear. When I say, I'm not scared, I'm just concerned. No,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: you're doubling down on fear because you're scared to even
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: tell me that you're scared.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: Scared of whatever you were scared of. Now you're scared.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: You're doubly scared to tell me you just scared.
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: Man, hopefully this ain't going too far, but I watched
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: this Andrew Tate video where he was being interviewed by
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: a psychologist. And it was so fascinating. I walked away
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: from that video like, wow, that man is terrified of
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: his own feelings. And there are men who are afraid
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: and then there are men who are afraid to be afraid.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: And that just drives you in another way.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: I wonder if guys like that are terrified of their
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: own feelings or he's just... terrified to put a chink
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: in this brand that he's created.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would 1000% think that it's both.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Like I used to think that men were impenetrable when
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: it came to being manipulated in that way, like telling
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: men what they want to hear and have them just
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: follow along. But the way things have been going for
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: the last couple of years and just looking at the
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: way the red pill universe works, they selling candy in
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: these men's ears and they're not questioning anything. They just
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: going with it. If I can agree with enough of
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: it to make me feel validated, then I'll just agree
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: with all of it. It's like, oh, you eating the candy,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: but you eating the poison too. Hey, hold on, y'all.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Real quick. My very first book, It All Starts When
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: You Do, is available right now. If this podcast has
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: ever helped you, I think this book will too. I
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: want you to just search It All Starts when you
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: do by care games wherever you get your books i
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: want to move the conversation forward because you charlamagne would
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: you agree that you troll a lot bro yeah absolutely
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: with a straight face uh and i'll do and i
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: know uh I don't troll, but I'm a dark humor
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: kind of guy.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: And I know that dark humor. Yeah.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: That's, that's a part of what you do.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: And like, I know for me sometimes because of the
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: way you tell jokes, it could be hard to tell
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: if you're joking or if you're serious.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Cause see this face you giving right now? Like that's the,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: That's your that's like the middle ground.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether it's going to be a compliment
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: or whether you're about to say some crazy shit.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't know what's coming next.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Do you feel like like deeply because you talked about
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: how you change and like being on survival mode or anything.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I wonder what part of that do you do you think.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Is like a coping mechanism in a way? If if
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: because not trying to lead the witness, if.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: It is at all. A coping mechanism for... The dark
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: humor for something.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Like comedians sometimes have really messed up pasts.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the humor kind of softens the reality of
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: what they're dealing with a little bit.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's interesting. I don't know if that's...
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: That might be conditioning.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: And the reason I say that might be conditioning is
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: because literally my whole life I was around people that
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: were like that.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: My dad was like that. You know what I'm saying?
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I got cousins... that were like that.
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: Like I've heard some of the most inappropriate jokes I've
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: ever heard growing up. Like, and even now when I'm
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: around family and friends, we're all making a whole bunch
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: of inappropriate jokes. So for me, I think it might
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: be conditioning, but also that's what we find entertaining.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Like, I don't think there's a problem with dark humor
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: if nobody is being hurt by it.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? If we're all making jokes amongst.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Each other, right? I think it's perfectly fine. And there's
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of people out there with dark humor. Honestly,
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: I think all really good humor is probably dark.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Has a tinge of darkness to it. Come on, man.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: We grew up making jokes. Now, that might have been
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: a coping mechanism. We grew up making jokes about each
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: other's problems.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Jess talked about the same thing.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Jess said, because I had her on the pod, Jess
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: said that the jokes made the reality a little different. Like, hey,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: we still going to be in this dirty apartment, but
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I can laugh at my aunt bad wig. I can
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: find some joy and I can make everybody laugh and
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: change the temperature.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, we laugh about your aunt having a dirty apartment.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like we would laugh in hindsight.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: That probably wasn't the best thing, but it's, you know,
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: we would laugh at.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: People's parents, drug addiction. We would laugh at people getting,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: you know, evicted, right? Like, like stuff that people could
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: not control.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: We would, We probably shouldn't have been laughing at that,
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: but we were. So that probably was, you know, a
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: coping mechanism. We was laughing at each other's pain and
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: laughing at others' pain in the hopes that when it
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: is our turn, because it will always be your turn
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: when you grow up in that environment, in the hopes
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: that it's your turn, that laughter might soften, you know,
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: some of that blow.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: I'm from D.C., and D.C. is a city where we
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: call it Jonah. Some people call it Planet of Dozens.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: It's different.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: It's different.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Language for but like that's a culture talking about somebody
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: so bad that they want to physically fight you like
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: that's it's a culture and actually like this side of
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: life where everything is wellness oriented is still a little
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: strange to me because.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I grew up in that culture.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: You said wellness oriented?
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like the wellness oriented, the way we speak about everything,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: everything is trying to get toward being a better you.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: But we're a new generation. But you know what's so funny?
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: I think wellness culture always existed. Nation of Islam was
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: wellness culture.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It literally was. Going to church to get saved
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: was wellness culture. I think wellness culture always existed. We
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: just didn't have the, I guess, holistic, psychological... language for.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: It and we can also package it up and sell
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: it now so when you can commodify anything it changes
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: people's relationship with.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: It uh i mean oprah that's that oprah oprah did
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: that the best and she still is doing it she
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: was doing it from a genuine place though right like
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: i was i was watching her interview with kiki palm
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: and she.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: That guy was excellent oh my god excellent phenomenal.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Kiki has been lining up some insane and.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: Phenomenal phenomenal conversation but when she spoke about How she
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: even chose to pivot because of a couple, I think,
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: I forgot, I think it was, she said somebody from
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: the KKK and some other interview she did, somebody who
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: got caught cheating and didn't know that they had, they
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: didn't know that that was what was going to happen
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: on the show.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: And she told her staff, like, this is not going
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: to work.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: You know, essentially saying like, this ain't sitting right with
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: me and my spirit. We got to be more intentional
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: about what it is that we're doing on our show.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: And I think any great radio personality or TV personality,
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: just media personality period gets to that point where they
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: realize what Malcolm X said, the person who controls the
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: media controls the minds of the masses. And at some point,
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: if you want to have some real longevity, if you
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: really want to, you know, make a real impact in
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: this space, You're going to come to that realization.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And pivot.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I'm arriving at the magnitude of that now, even where
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: I am in my career.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Uh-oh. But you already there.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Like, you came into the space doing something intentional. Like,
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: we know you because, you know, you were online showing
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: your vulnerability as a black man. And then you were
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: able to take that and turn that into this beautiful book,
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: It All Starts When You Do, and this beautiful podcast.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you, brother. Yeah, like, you've always been intentional. That's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: your space.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: It's just different when it's happening to you versus it's
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: different when it's your life happening in real time versus...
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: like something you can observe. I can't feel it the
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: same way other people see it. So I guess it
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: dawns on me differently.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I may wake up in 20 years and it all
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: hits me at once.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: But as I.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Was preparing for this podcast, I was telling a lot
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: of my homies, it's like, I'm going to have Charlamagne
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: on the pod. What would you like for me to
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: ask him? You want to know what the overwhelming response was? What?
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: What's up with the gay shit, bro?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know. this is the thing, man.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Like, your humor, I think you get a kick out
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: of this.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I think, I think it's the funniest thing in the world, man.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: There's a YouTube video with Baal Got to be like
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: 20 minutes like a Barry Sanders highlight video, bro, with
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: you saying things that will make most men go, Ayo, balls.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: They're supposed to say, Ayo, balls. What is that? Do
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you genuinely enjoy that?
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: I feel like you're trolling everybody in one fell swoop, man.
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: Because I feel like people, why you get so uncomfortable
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: about that? Like, why does that even make you uncomfortable? Like,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: growing up, you saw... So many white people do those
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: kind of jokes. It was in their movies. It was
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: in their TV shows. They did it on stage. It
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: was nothing to them.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: Which was a crazy culture shock for me coming from
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: the hood when I heard them do that in person.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: But the funny thing is we say that, but growing up,
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: black guys did it too. Think about House Party when
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: Kid was in jail. And them dudes was drawing straws
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: on who going to try to fuck him first.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: And he did though. I never saw Housemarque. But okay,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: think about Martin. When Martin was dressed as Shanaynay. Yeah.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And he was trying to seduce kid. Once again, kid.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Or like you'd watch In Living Color and you'd see
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: men on film.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: And they was two snaps in a circle. Two snaps
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: in a circle, yeah. Like nobody ever said, oh, that's
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: gay back in the day. Like no, that never was
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: a thing.
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: Like you would see, you know, Prince on stage, or
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: Rick James, all of these dudes that were androgynous, right? Like,
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: but they were getting more women than anybody. Like, it
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: never was a thing, at least to me, until I saw,
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: until we got old. And then everything was paused, this, paused, that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: And I just thought it was funny to, you know,
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: make those kind of jokes.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: You look like you're holding back a laugh right now, man. Like, No,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: I just thought it was funny to make those kind
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: of jokes and make these so-called super masculine men uncomfortable.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: Because if you're really comfortable in your sexuality, those jokes
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: wouldn't bother you in no way, shape, or form.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that to be true for me. Like,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's hilarious.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: It's something about the discomfort of watching you say something
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: that I know would make other men I know super uncomfortable.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: But, like, even.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: In life, I don't really do the pause thing.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: There was a point, we used to say 20 seconds
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: or whatever.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: I don't do that anymore.
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: Like, bro, I'm not going to cut a hot dog
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: in half, bro, at a cookout.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Like, what are we doing, man?
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: Pause is hilarious, though, because it's like, why would you
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: want to pause it? Why do you want to stop
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: right here? And when you pause something, it's because you
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: want to see it, right? Like, that's really what they're saying.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: They're like, pause.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Let's stay here for a moment. Because you should say
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: fast forward. They say time. You should either say fast
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: forward or turn it off.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: You should say time out, pause on the play, man.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Time out is better, you know what I mean? But pause?
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: Nah, you want me to pause right here and stop
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: it so you can get a good look.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: See, like you're doing it. But when they say what's
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: up with the gay shit, what do they mean?
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: I think what they mean is like things that will
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: make people question your sexuality. Like anything you say that
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: will make people go, hmm.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: That's fun. Yeah, I know you don't care. That's cool.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: But I had to ask the question because I never
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: heard you like addresses straight up before.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: But every time you do it, I'm like, man, he's
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: getting a rise out of y'all. Like y'all are giving
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: him what he want. Like, look at it. If you don't,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: if you're not watching the video, this man laughing so hard,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: his eyes are closed. His eyeballs have left the building.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I just, I just find it funny.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: It ain't no stopping in sight, is it? You going
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: to keep hitting them over the head with it?
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, because I don't even do it. Like, it's
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: not like I'm not, like, sitting around, like, okay, I'm
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: about to make it right now. It's just sometimes people
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: be saying some crazy stuff, and you just.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Got to, you know, call it out. The opportunity is
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: right there. Shout out to Carla. Oh, producer chiming in.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Say it again, Carla. You walk in somewhere, a scene
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: where you're like, I have a joke in mind, and
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I have to. He walk in with one in the mag. Rampage. Rampage. Like,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: you see him shaking. Like, I got to let... It depends. Yeah,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: you might... If I walk in the room and I
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: see something, I'm observing something. Yeah, it might... Yeah, it
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: might happen. I might observe it. And if the opportunity
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: comes up, you know, I'll bring it to the forefront.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you said, what they mean by gay shit? Like,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: what you mean what they mean?
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: No, no, I just wanted to know, like, do they mean, like,
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: I just make too many gay jokes or do they
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: think I'm gay?
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: That's what I was getting at. I don't know. I
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: think it's a mix.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I think, there's this piece of content right now that
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: I cannot stop watching.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: It's this young man who goes, what's wrong with you, man?
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: You all right? You good? But that's what I'm saying.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: If you can't stop watching it, you just want to
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: see it.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Nah, that's not what I mean at all.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Please allow me. No pauses. Nah, there's no pauses. There's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: no reason to do that. We good.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: He walks around, he asks dudes, are you straight or
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: are you gay? And the dude will say, I'm straight.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: And they say, all right, do you think anybody can tell?
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: And the dude say, yeah, everybody can tell. He takes
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: a picture of the dude. He walks to another dude
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: and say, you think this dude straight away gay? And
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: it's never like the men be like, oh, he might
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: be gay. They always, man, he's super gay, bro. And
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: the reason why it's so stupid, look at his shirt.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: They got a collar on it. What kind of man
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: wear a shirt with a collar on?
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: But that's the leading question, though.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Listen, we live in a world where everybody's making content
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: and they're fully aware that everybody's making content. I can
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: go outside right now and it's somebody with a phone
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: who thinks I'm an extra in their reality show. So
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: if I walk up on you and I say, yo,
• 51:55
  Speaker 4: do you think this person is gay or straight? You're
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: not ready. You're not really giving me a real answer.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: You're in performance mode. So of course you're going to
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: say gay because you think that's the answer that I want.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Or do you think that's the most entertaining answer?
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: It's just true. And then they be drunk all the time. Man,
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: shout out to the gay community, man. I just realized.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: two cis cis hetero black men talking about homosexuality let's
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: clear the air this is nowhere in the monochrome.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: No we weren't talking about homosexuality you were asking me
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: if I was gay I never asked you if you
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: were gay that's that's not that's not what I asked
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: you why you see you try to get me canceled
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: You just had me about the book.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Nah, I don't do the pause stuff. I'll say this
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: once and then we'll do it again. I'm in a
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: group chat with some of my frat brothers, and sometimes
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: I'll say something.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: They be like, pause.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: I'm like, nah, I meant that as gaily as possible. Like,
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: what's plausible about me saying I'm about to crack this
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: book open?
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Yo, bro, yo. What book is it? All right, dog.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: What book is it? Nah, we done. I'm not. Because
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with you, man? What's wrong with you? Oh, man.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: What difference does it make?
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, man. Humor is good. Laughter is medicine.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: But how can you tell the difference between when humor
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: is helping you process something versus it.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Being in the way, like it being a barrier?
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: How can you tell when humor is allowing the cries.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: To go down a little bit easier? When the other
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: person is laughing with you. You know what I'm saying?
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: Like if you and a group of people or you
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: and an individual are in a setting and you're making jokes,
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: but you can tell this person ain't laughing, this person
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: is not finding it funny, then it's in the way.
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: Like you probably need to put the humor to the
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: side and, you know, pull something else out of your toolbox.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: Like to have that conversation that that person is really
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: wanting to have.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: That's what I think. I think that's when it's in
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: It's in the way when, you know, the subject of
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: your jokes or the subject of your laughter is not
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: laughing with you. When everybody's laughing together, then you know
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: that you're, you have a conversation that can move forward.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: And you can see it, right?
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: Like sometimes somebody can talk to you about some real
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: serious stuff and you can have a conversation and there
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: really might be room for like a real joke. Or
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: you might not even be making a joke. You might
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: be telling this person the truth. But for whatever reason,
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: this person finds it funny and y'all have a good laugh, man.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: You can feel the conversation starting to move forward from
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: that point, because a lot of times when people come
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: to you with, you know, issues, they're coming to you
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: with issues.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Because they're sad about it. Right.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: Or they might be depressed. They're in a bad space. So, man,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: that that that bit of laughter. you know, brings them joy.
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: And now they're, now they're.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Really able to have a real honest conversation.
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: And then that's, that's how I feel like you, you
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: move the conversation forward and get to a place to heal.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: Nah, that's, that's a good point, man. I, what I
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: started doing, especially since becoming a therapist and seeing black
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: men in my practice, especially with men, if you not laughing,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: I'll pull you to the side and say, bro, I
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: hope I didn't offend you. And sometimes a lot of
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: men like to play it off.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: Now I'm good.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: It's like, nah, I just want to make sure, because
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't mean to.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: I hope that didn't offend you.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: I even do things, if you're sitting too close to me,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: or if we're sitting close, and I like to put
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: my arm over the chap, I'm like, oh, I'm not
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: in your space. I'm invading your space, am I, bro?
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Because a lot of men don't get asked that question.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: No, because nobody cares about our space. No.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: It's very hard for black men to create safe spaces
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: for each other.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: The barbershop has always historically been a safe space.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Until it's not, right?
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: And usually when it's not, it's because there's somebody in
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: there that violated a boundary and they crossed the line
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: and said something that they had no business saying. They
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: might have been words exchanged. Now you don't feel so
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: safe in this space anymore. Like, I don't know too many,
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: you know, real safe spaces for black men right now
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: in 2026.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: It's hard to curate because black men have such a
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: diverse group of needs, but also... The biggest issue with
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: black men getting safe space is the fact that black
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: men are still men. And we are in a place
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: in our society where, like, you know how you drive.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: A shopping cart?
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Like, if you pull in a shopping cart behind you
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: and they got a whole bunch of.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Groceries, even when you stop, the shopping cart still, like,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: hits the back of your leg, smacks your ankle. I
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: think all the stuff that men have done throughout time
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: is just kind of, like, crashing in all at once.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah. Yeah.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: But even though men have all this institutional power, individually,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: men don't feel very powerful.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: And once you get outside of men who can see
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: that and understand that, to anybody else in society, nobody
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: want to hear that shit.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I agree with that 100%. Yeah.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: That's frustrating, but I still keep chopping with these groups
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: of stuff that I'm doing.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: So if you're hearing this, create space.
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: Don't wait for it to come to you. You're creating it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: This is a safe space. It should be, right? I
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: think that there's... There is certain platforms people can go,
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: but I'm just talking about for everyday, you know, working
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: class people, especially black men that aren't in therapy yet.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Right. That don't have, you know, counselors who where can
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: they go?
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: That's just a straight safe space where they can like
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: really get it off their chest.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not talking about like the bar. You know
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: I'm not talking about going to grab a beer and
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: sitting up under the tree, rolling up a blunt and
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: having a conversation. I'm talking about like, where can a
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: person just go, you know, to create a safe space?
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I know the answer for that.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Even for myself, especially as I grow in this field, man,
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: and trying to find spaces that I don't necessarily curate myself.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: And the bigger I grow, the harder it seems to
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: be able to find that for me. You know what
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: I'm saying?
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Like, when you're always making a space, who going to
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: make a space for you, bruh?
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Eventually, you know, you got to ask yourself, who
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: does the go-to guy go to? That's what I say
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: And there's not a good answer for that. I have
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: my community, but it still sometimes feels like there needs
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: to be more.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: And, like, as I get bigger, as my career advance,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: I don't even want you to look at it like that.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: You're not supposed to look at it like that. What
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: you mean I'm not supposed to look at it like that?
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: You should be looking at it as my territory gets bigger,
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: as God expands my territory to continue to be of
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: service to society, to people.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: You should just hope to stay in alignment. I do.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: With your purpose. I do.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: I don't think that the way that I said it
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: the first time is in replacement of that. I think
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: it's in addition to, and I feel all of those
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: good things. And I feel like there's some type of
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: assignment for me And I'm a vessel and I'm doing
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: the thing.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: You on assignment. But man, I feel it. No, no, no.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: You're on assignment.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: Like I said, I don't want you to think the
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: books and the podcast are for anything else other than
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: you are on assignment.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: But assignment is still a thing that I hold. I
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: don't want to always hold shit. I want to be
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: in a space where I can drop shit. You know
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying? So that's what I'm saying. It's like
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: those two worlds exist together. at the same time and
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: trying to make space for them. And sometimes I do
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: better than others, man. And right now is a space
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: where I'm struggling with that more. And I'm, I'm really
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: open to admitting that.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: What are you struggling with right now? Yeah. The scale
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: that everything is moving.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: When my book hit New York times bestseller, Mel Robbins
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: called me salute to Mel.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: Mel, Mel, a real one, man. And Mel said, Hey,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: First off, she said, I told you. She said, I
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: told you that was going to happen. But she said,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: right now, you're on a rocket. I will never forget this.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: She said, right now, you're on a rocket ship. And
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: that rocket ship is moving at a million miles per hour.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Your goal and your job is not to worry about
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: how fast it's moving. It's to sit in the captain's chair,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: drink your coffee, watch the world pass by, and center yourself.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Because when it gets crazy, it's going to get bad shit.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: You need to make sure that you can remain you.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: And that is exactly what Mel told you is 100% right.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: You have to remain you because this is when the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: devil going to try you the hardest. I was watching
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: one of my favorite movies that I haven't watched in
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: a while. One of my favorite things to do nowadays
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: is like watch things that inspired me growing up with
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: like younger people around me. So I was with my
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: girl Nyla. That's my play niece, right? And so she
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: was at the house and I let her watch Devil's Advocate.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: We were watching Devil's Advocate. And I was like, yo,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: I got so much from re-watching it, right? Because what
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: you see in that movie is that the whole movie
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: is rooted in vanity, right? Like all of these people,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: the sin that the devil tempted them all with the
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: most was vanity. That's why at the end of the movie,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: that very end of the movie, if you've never seen it,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna tell you what happened, but the very
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: end of the movie, the devil goes, vanity, that's my
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: favorite sin. And he's able to tempt you with vanity,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: whether you choose to do the wrong thing, Are the
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: right thing. Like there's a lot of people out there
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: who think that they're doing the right thing.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Right. Like you see it all the time. You see
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: it with pastors or you see.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: It with, you know, I don't want to call them self-righteous,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: but it's like these self-righteous individuals who like to do
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: all of this virtue signaling. And then especially in this
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: era that we're in. They start growing their platforms because
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: of it.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: And that's when the devil is really trying them and
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: they don't even realize it.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Like the devil has... The.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: Devil will tempt you with what you actually love and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: feel like you're supposed to be doing. So if your love...
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: Your love could actually be helping the people. You know,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: your love could actually be, you know, pouring in to others, right?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: That could be your actual love and you could.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: really have the best intentions, but the devil will still say,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: but I can still make you famous.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Can still, you know, give you all the money in
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: the world. I can still do all of that through
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: what it is you love. And that's why you always
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: got to remember your purpose. The movie's 100 years old.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: I can tell you. It's called The Devil's Advocate. It's
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: called The Devil's Advocate.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: But there's just a part at the end where the guy,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: they show you what happens when the guy makes the
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: wrong decision.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: At the end, he makes the right decision. And he's
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: making the right decision.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: There's a reporter who you find out later is also
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: still the devil. And he's telling them like, man, he's
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: he's like, yo, a lawyer with a conscience.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Wow. That's something that's something new, man.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: And he was like, man, you know, you shouldn't turn
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: down all this press. You know, you could you basically
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: you could be famous. And the guy, the lawyer is like,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: all right, man, call me tomorrow. And the devil goes, vanity,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: that's my favorite sin. Even though the lawyer was still
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: doing the right thing, the devil can still come to
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: you and dangle certain things in front of you. And
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: you will still be using the so-called right thing, but not.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Even realizing you're doing what the devil wants you to do.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I see what you're saying.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: And even as I move through this space of high
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: visibility and You walk in the room and everybody know you.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: I even told a story. I met your wife at
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: the event, and she knew who I was, and I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: was so surprised.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: Like, you know who I am?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: I see how people go crazy, and I see how
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: people use this as an opportunity to self-destruct because there's
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: something unnatural about this amount of attention, this amount of,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: did I even say opportunity? Like, there's some people who
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: never get a yes, and I'm at a point where
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I rarely get a no.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. That's scary. It can be. That's scary.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: But, like, all of this stuff, I'm very grateful for.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. But this shit don't make me broke.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: Like, it doesn't.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: I don't even take myself that serious. One of the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: questions I want to ask you is, like, you not
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: tired of seeing your face and hearing your voice?
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: I am tired of me. I'm tired of me.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: You not tired of hearing your voice and seeing your
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: own face yet? Um... Well, there's a way to look
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: at that.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: I am at the point where I do feel like
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: I know as an individual, there's nothing else I want
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: to do individually.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Everything I want to do is about institution building.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: I've been saying for years, you know, if what I
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: build only benefits me, it's not big enough.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: That's why if you looked.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: At any move I've made- Any move I've made over
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: the last six, seven years has always been, you know,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: the better move. more than just me. But that's always
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: been my mindset. I've always said, I'd rather lead the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: league in assists than point score.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: But I think that's how you get here because I'm
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: the same way. I'm just a vessel. That's it. I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: told my publisher when we first did the book, I
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: hope that it does well, but I really hope that
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: people can connect with it in a way that's meaningful.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: I'm here just to give you something to think differently about.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: So you can improve your life. Everything else is everything else.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: And that was such an interesting question you asked me
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: because I literally, that's, God has always put that on
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: my heart. But in the last couple of weeks, that's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: something that I've been intentional about saying to like people
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: on my team. Like, you know, because like I turn
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: down a lot of these. There's a time I do so,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: I'll do so many podcasts.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you do. TV appearances and all that.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: But I turn them down now because I'm like, yo,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: if I'm coming on just to talk about my commentary.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: About something, nah.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: But if I'm coming on to talk about you know,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: one of these institutions that we're building, whether it's the
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: book imprint with black privilege publishing, whether it's, you know,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: the company, me and Kevin Hart got with the audio scripted,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: whether it's, you know, the black effect podcast network, that,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: that makes sense. If I'm coming on to have a
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: healthy conversation about black men and how we can grow
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: and evolve and heal, I'm always down for a good,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: you know, conversation about mindfulness. But if it's just about
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: cultural commentary, it's like, yo, I know y'all get enough
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: of that for me.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: I'm on breakfast club every morning. You know, 6 a.m.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: to 10 a.m. I got the Brilliant Idiots every week.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 4: We're on Netflix now all the time. You see us
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: on YouTube, social media. You listen to the Breakfast Club
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: as a podcast. I'm sure we're maxed out on cultural commentary.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Nah, you big on a substantive value there.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: And even when you talk about all the teams, I'm
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: looking at all your accomplishments right now. I got them
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: all in one place. You built teams across radio, all
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: the different businesses. Selfish question, man. Like, looking at all
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: this stuff, good Lord, man. When did you, like, how
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: did you know what you needed and, like, to stop
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: doing it yourself? Because clearly you know how to build teams, man. Like,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: clearly that's something that you're doing, teams and infrastructure. How
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: did you know when you needed to stop doing everything
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: yourself and start to delegate and hire out?
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Because that's where I'm at now.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: Well, when it comes to building teams, I am good
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: at finding who can lead. And a lot of times
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: either I find who can lead or those people find me.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: So I got people in my life like, you know,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: my girl. I don't want to say her name. She
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: don't even like her name out there like that.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? But she she is my
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: business partner.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: And she reached out to me back in like 2015,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: like literally just a straight cold call and was just
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: pouring into me, telling me what she saw for me
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: and what she saw. for my future. And she was
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: asking me, you know, what it is that I wanted
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: to do. And I was like, well, right now in
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: this moment, you know, I really want to write a book.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: And I had a book deal that was on the table,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: but I hadn't signed it yet. Cause to your point,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: I didn't know if this was even a good book deal.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: I didn't have the proper people around me to say, Hey,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: this is a good book deal. This is not a
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: good book deal. And she just asked me to send
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: it to her. And I sent it to her and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: she was like, you didn't sign this yet.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 4: And I was like, no, she was like, do not
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: sign this. This is a horrible book deal, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: She was like, give me a week. And within a week,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: she had me meeting with every single major publisher. there
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: was at the time and these people were ecstatic to
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: see me because you gotta think I just had my
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: head down doing radio from 2010 to 2015 I wasn't
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: you know, going outside anymore. I had been told myself,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to the clubs. Cause I always say
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: anything you want to be doing five years from now,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: you got to start doing now. So I had already
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: removed myself from hosting parties and things of that nature.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: I knew what I wanted to do. I was like,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: I want to write this book. And you know, any
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: extra money I make will be from speaking engagements, right?
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: Like going to speak in these colleges and stuff like that.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: And she took me to all of these different book publishers.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: And there was out the deal that I had initially was,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: The deal I ultimately signed was like six times.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: More than that deal.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: So that was a person who just showed and proved
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: what they could do for me. Me and her still
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: have never signed any contracts or anything to this day.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: It's just all been on.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: Like the love and we and we and we built these,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: you know, great institutions together and I'm a loyal person. So,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm never going anywhere like, you know, that's
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: and that's she's the same way. And so you take
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: you have somebody like her who can handle so much
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: of your day to day operations. And then like with
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: the Black Effect Podcast Network, Dolly Bishop, you know, that's
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: that's that's my good sister. She was my family before
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: we ever met. you know, decided to do any type
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: of business together. But I just knew her because I've
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: been watching her for years. I remember when she was
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: a manager with Nick Cannon. I would go sit with
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: her in the edit bay at MTV for hours while
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: she was editing Wild N' Out when she was a
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: producer on there. So I just knew that she was
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: a great leader and she was a great, you know,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: manager of talent.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Like she knows how to deal with talent.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: So when it came time for me to launch the
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: Black Effect Podcast Network, First thing I said was, like,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: I want Dolly to be the president of this network.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: And I remember calling her during COVID and asking her, yo,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: I want you to be the president of this podcast network.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: She was like, what a podcast. You got to put
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: me on to what podcasts are. And it was one
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: phone conversation, and we were off to the races. And
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: now Variety says we're one of the top 500 entertainment
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: companies in the world.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bro. You know, so, yeah. And also watching people, man. Like,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I study....
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: The great institutions and infrastructures that are out here now.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: I have a big reverence for Roc Nation, right? Because
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: I love their infrastructure. You go up there, you see
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: all of these black and brown people, ran by a woman, right? Like, like,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: like Desiree Perez. And she holds it down across every
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: facet of that institution. So that's what I want. Like,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: I look at that and I'm like, oh, okay, this
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: is what this is supposed to look like. Like that's,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: that's what, what I'm building is supposed to look like.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: So that was always stuff like that are always my
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: blueprint when it comes to what, what it is that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: I'm building.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: And we are, we're there, we're there. Yeah. So I
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: hope I answered your question. You did. Okay. It actually
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: went beyond.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: That's really helpful for me because I'm trying to figure
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: out not necessarily what's next. Like I'm just trying to
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: move on to the next thing. But it's when you
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: have almost limitless options, it can be scarier sometimes than
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: being cornered with minimal options.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Because if you can do anything, it's easier to make
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: the wrong decision.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Or it's easier to not pick the right person or
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: not really feel your way around a person to see
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: if they are the right person to give an opportunity to, man.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: But that's what I said. Sometimes you pick people. Sometimes
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: people pick you.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: And the thing that I didn't add about all those
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: two individuals that I named, they're able to be a
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: good team.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: They know how to build good teams.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 4: So once you start with the head and you got
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: that great leader, that person can build out, you know,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: your system. Like, I got to give props to my girl,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: Rachel Edwards, too. Rachel Edwards, you know, she's somebody who, man,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: Rachel was with me– For every single MTV show I
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: ever did, Rachel was a producer on like every single
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: talk show. She was either like a consultant producer, something
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: like some. She was there.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Right. And I've watched her grow over the years.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: And when I got my opportunity to do my late
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: night show on Comedy Central.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Right. Like this is the big boy joint.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: This is the multimillion dollar produced show that got the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: big Comedy Central budget. Like, yo, Rachel is going to
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: be the showrunner for this show. She had never been
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: a showrunner before. You know, had never been a showrunner
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: in her life, but I knew that she was equipped
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: to do it. And every single person that came on
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: our show for those two seasons that we had it
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: raved about our staff.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Raved about our system.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: It's such a compliment as a leader when people rave
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: about your staff, man.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: And it was her.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: Only two people I hired was, I said, yo, I
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: want to go get Rachel Edwards and go get my
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: girl Bianca.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Bianca B. You know, smooth to Bianca. She just had
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: a baby as well. And Bianca.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: had a lot of experience in television. Rachel got a
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: lot of experience in television. Once I had those two,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 4: they were off to the races, filling in the blanks.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: Even now, Rachel is the showrunner for The Breakfast Club
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: show on Netflix every day because she's a great leader.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: So that leads me to another question because sometimes as
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: a leader or as a man or as a black
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: person or as a black man or as a black
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: man who is a leader, it feels like there's an
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: expectation that you got to take everybody with you. When
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: you make it, you got to take everybody with you.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: My white counterparts, when they make it, no one's ever saying,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: what has he ever done for the white community? When
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: you black, there's always an expectation that you got to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: go back for your people, which I'm not mad at.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: I think that that does a lot for us, but
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: also it could be a lot of pressure. How can
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: you tell when this isn't a person that, that you
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: can take with you. Like, God bless you. Thank you
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 3: so much. But I don't think you're going to be
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: a good fit for this.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, most of the times they do that on
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: their own. What you mean?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: Because they'll start exhibiting behavior and start doing things that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: make it very cut and dry.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because, you know,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: Allow anybody to ruin what I have, you know, you know, built.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: The ship that you built by hand.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: No, not when I'm out here doing what I'm supposed
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 4: to be doing and I'm doing the work on myself
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: to make sure that I'm not a person that self-destructs.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: I'm a person that constantly, you got to keep your
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: ego in check. One of my favorite books is Ryan Holiday,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: Ego is the Enemy. You know what I mean?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: Somebody just posted about that book like a week ago.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. I read that book at least once
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: a year. That's the Daily Stoic guy, right? Daily Stoic. Yeah.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: That's my guy, Ryan.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: I actually met him before.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Great person. Super chill. Great dude. Stoicism. Yeah. He ain't bullshit.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Great person. Super chill.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: But it's just like, yo, I'm not going to be
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: out here doing the work on myself and, you know,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: you haven't grown and you haven't evolved.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: And then it's like when things happen that are like really,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: like they're detrimental, like they're detrimental not just to... you know,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: what it is that we're building, but, you know, just
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: detrimental to everything.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Like, it's like, oh, no, no, no.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: And then sometimes they give you this thing like, oh,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: so what, you better than me now? And for me,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: it's like, no, I'm not. I don't think I'm better
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: than you. First off, you think I'm better than you.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: That's a projection.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: But what if you are better than that person? Maybe,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: but that's not my determination. What if your behavior is better? Maybe.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: What if the choices you make are better? Perhaps. Perhaps.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is whether that's existent
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: And it's dynamic or not, you don't even have.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: The skills to do what it is that I need
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: you to do.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Like, even if like a lot of the people that
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: you talked about, the woman who never been a showrunner,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: the person who said, Hey, I don't, sister said, I
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: don't even know what a podcast is. They still demonstrated
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: the capability to have some type of transferable skills. bro,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: like I love you so much, but you've never demonstrated
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: any skill that's going to help me progress this thing further.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: And because I love you, that loyalty does not mean
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: that I need, I have to bring you on and
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: give you an opportunity to send.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: You up the field and send me up the field subsequently. Yeah.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: I'm, I'm, I'm bad. I'm bad at that. I'm good
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: at that and bad at that. Cause you know, there's
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: been times early, early on in my career where I
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: was like, yo, my mind state was, I gotta, I
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: gotta put South Carolina on. When I first, when I
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: first got with Wendy, That was my whole mindset. Like,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: I got to put South Carolina on. I got to
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: put South Carolina on. I got to put South Carolina on.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: And I wasn't even in position yet. So how can
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: I put somebody on when I'm not really in position?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Moving too quick.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: So I remember when I first got on Breakfast Club,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: I told my boy DJ Frosty, I said, Frost, I'm
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: going to do something that you never heard me say before.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: And he said, what? I said, I'm going to be
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: all about me.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: I said, I got to put myself in position in
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: order to be able to put other people in position.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 4: And that's what I did. Like, literally from 2010, like, 2015.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: I say, no, 2010 to 2016. Just like, yo, I
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: was grinding, grinding. I had to put myself in a
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 4: real solid position to be able to, you know, help
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: other people.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: And it worked so far. But then I'm also bad
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: because it don't take me....
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: Long to cut people off once I know what's going on.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: But I can be so into what I got going
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 4: on that I'm not paying attention to what.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Everybody else really, really, really got going on.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: And then people will come to you and be like, hey,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: you know such and such is doing this.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: And you're like, what? You know what I mean? What
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: do you do with that when that happens? Is there...
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: like I can't bang with your character.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: Oh no I'm straight I'm straight communication yeah like I
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: don't I don't do that and that's why I don't
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: like people who don't know how to communicate Like.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: You got to come communicate with me. That's a lot
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: of people you don't like. Oh, no, that's a fact. Like,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: you got to come talk to me.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: I don't like when somebody got a problem with you
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: and you don't know that they got a problem with you,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: you know, and they're telling everybody but you, which makes
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: me feel like you don't really have a problem with me.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 4: You just like the attention that you get by saying
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: you have a problem with me.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Because if you had a... Especially we.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: supposed to be people like we family like we're supposed
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: to be friends come holler at me come holler at
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 4: me like come come tell me what's going on but
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: most of the time they don't want to tell you
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 4: what's going on because if they told you the truth
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: it would reveal a lot about them.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah and they probably feel stupid because the basis of
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: that reality isn't really steeped in anything that actually happens
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: that's right it's steeped from big feelings that they have
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: for something that's right that they have a tough time
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: managing that's right and that's fine but like Or they
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: trying to conceal their bullshit.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: That's what I find. That too.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: Or, yeah, sometimes they feel dumb for being mad about
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: that thing. Or they feel dumb for feeling the way.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: They feel immature. A lot of men say, man, I
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: feel like a female. What do you mean you feel
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: like a female because you're feeling big feelings, bro?
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: I would love if more men felt like females.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Pause. No. No. But that's not. Oh, I heard it. Yeah.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, but I would like. I ain't even.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 4: Because, yo, this is just my personal opinion. And people
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: will get mad at this, especially men. women just be
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 4: way more thorough, man, in a lot of situations, man. Like,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: I love having women in leadership roles because I've seen it. Like,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: they like to say women are emotional. Yo, men, we're humans.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: Humans are emotional. Humans are emotional, but it's what you
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: do with that emotion. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: I don't like to hear that.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: Like, women, man, these women are emotional.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: Like, bro, men are way more emotional in a lot
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: of ways, but We also confuse emotion and emotional expression.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: Women are just more comfortable expressing them.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: But the absence of the expression isn't the absence of
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: the feeling.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: You're just suppressing it, bro.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: And most of the women I know, when they get
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: in their feelings and they have emotions they want to express,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: it comes with a plan. Because that's how they're going
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: to express it. Okay, this is what we're going to do.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is how we're going to do it. Oh, okay.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Now we're talking.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: Like, if you're just emotional for the sake of being
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: emotional and you just want to go wreck some shit,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 4: I don't want no parts of that.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: No, that's not constructive. No.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: It has to be something to it that does something progressive. But, like,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: even my whole team is women. I actually just realized that.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: I don't have a single dude on my entire team.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, okay.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: We do have dudes on the team. But it's not
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of them, actually.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. But that's my life. Like, my whole
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: life I've been like that. Like, I was always... The
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: little boy up under my sisters and my female first cousin. Like, always.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: So yours is deliberate.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: Mine just so happens to be, we going to get
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: the best person for the job.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: I don't even know if mine is deliberate. I'm just
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: saying that's just the way God always ordained my life. Like,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: I'm in a house full of women right now. I
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: got four daughters and a beautiful wife.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: Four daughters? Four daughters. I got four daughters and a
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: beautiful wife. And it's just like. You got four daughters?
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: Four daughters. I got two. I'm getting cooked. Damn. You
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: was a hoe? In a past life?
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: So this is Learn the Hard Way, Charlemagne. Where can
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: they find you?
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: How you end up with two daughters? You got to
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: ask God that, bro. I was not. Define hoe.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: I just use that word because that's the word that
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: people use. I don't really believe in people being hoes.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: You know what? I don't either, man.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: I just think some people are more sexually forward than others.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: Damn. Say what? Carlos has spoken like true hoes.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not a. I've never. That's.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: My wife tried to play me like I was, like
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: I was a 304. How long you been with your wife?
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: Been with her all together about 12 years married.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been married for 28 years.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 3: Of course, you know, I just don't like the characterization
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: because it was. I left a lot on the table. Like,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 3: I didn't shoot at everything that popped up.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Damn.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's whole behavior, man.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: All right, listen.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: Therapist, head off. I'm just a boy right now. I
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: feel like that's whole behavior. When you go in the club, man,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: I'm leaving here with something, bro.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: That's whole behavior, bro. You got to calm down.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: You never did that?
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: I'm leaving here with something? If something passed by... And
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: it's cool.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you just put your pole in the water, and
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: if something bite, it bite. And then sometimes you got
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: a 100 by 2,000 foot net, and you dragging it
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: across the seafloor, catching everything.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: I've never been a catch everything kind of guy.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: No, I've never been a catch everything type of person. No, no.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: That's just not my ministry. No.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's a good way to move through
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: our life.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: You know, you might catch a grouper. You know what's
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: so funny about that?
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: That is a great point because most of my most
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: meaningful relationships that I have in my life are women, right?
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: And it's women that I've known for years. And it's
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: because it never was that. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: Like some guys think every relationship with a woman has
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: to turn into something.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: That's the best way to cook your opportunities, to cook
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: your trust, to cook your credibility.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: Look at the public.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: How many powerful men go down for being inappropriate around women?
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: That's right. Absolutely right. It happens all the time. Absolutely right.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. It does not have to go there.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: That does not have to be the foundation of your
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: relationships with women.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: And you lose out on great friendships. Great friendships.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: I didn't even realize. We was out last night, and
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm the only dude. That was one of
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: my other young homeboys.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: But he was with Nyla, right?
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: But everybody else in my whole team was women. And
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: that's literally how I like the role. You're not going
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: to see me out with, you know, 10 guys.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: You're going to see me out. Why? Just it's not
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: my makeup.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: I need a balance, though, man. I need a balance
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: because I'm the only dude in the house. And sometimes, like,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: I can only watch so many cheer routines.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Your daughter's cheer, too? Yeah. Mine, too. Competitive cheerleading. Word up.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: It's no joke. My oldest does competitive cheerleading.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: My oldest is a flyer now.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know what my oldest is. I think she
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: does flying and bass at different points.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that cheerleading is its own language. She was like, yeah, Dad,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: I'm a back spot.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: And I did a transpose, double back twirl.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: You do all the traveling? You go to all the
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: cheer competitions and everything?
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: As many as I can.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I go to all of them.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I go to, because they be all over the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: country and I travel a lot right now.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Got you.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: Like in this part of my career, I'm moving a lot.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: So I don't miss a lot of school stuff. PTA
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: meetings and all that.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: I make all those.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: But the travel stuff sometimes, if I just got off
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: the road, I did like five cities. I ain't trying
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: to go to El Paso, Texas and watch nine-year-olds do
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: the same routine for the past six months.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: No, you got to.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 4: Remember what you said? You told me earlier, you said
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: that you didn't want to go so hard. Like you said,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: you wanted to slow down. And I was like, no,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 4: go hard until the holidays. But when it comes to
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: that type of stuff, be there for your daughter, man.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: Because she's never going to forget that. I've been to
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 4: every hole in the wall town in New Jersey.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: Like, because the cheer competitions ain't never nowhere fly. Like,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: the flyers you're going to get is, like, Nashville. You
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: might get a Myrtle Beach. I didn't even get that.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. You get Orlando every year if you go
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: to Worlds. We're not there yet. She just got in the...
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know the, like... She different. Like, they actually
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: throwing them up in the air now. So it's that level.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: But they be in the... They don't be... They're never
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: in any place you want them. Now, you're never going
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: to get to LA. You know?
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: But, man, make the most of that. Like, don't... I've
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: had some of the best experiences with my wife in
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: those towns, right? Because it's just us. And we're trying
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 4: to find something to do. We might just go get
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 4: some food and then sit up in the hotel and
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: eat and laugh and cool out all night.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: But just the fact.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: That my daughter for the last decade sees me show
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 4: up at every single cheer competition.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you're making it seem like I don't go
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: to none of them.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. I only miss two of them, maybe
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: two or three a year. You shouldn't. Oh, you tripping.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: Because it's on weekends. Most of the time it's on weekends.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: There's really nothing. They do be on weekends. Yeah, there's
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: really nothing more important.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: I promise you, if that's one piece of advice I
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 4: can give you, there's nothing more important than that.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: Even you saying that, I'm kind of realizing that.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: I know we're in two different spaces in our careers,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: so I'd like to borrow your perspective and your genius
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: if I can, bro.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: I'm in like this overwhelm.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: Part of my career where everything is asking a lot
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: out of me all the time and I'll deliver I'll
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 3: show up I'll do the damn thing I'll do a
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 3: great job it'll be a great experience but it's sometimes
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: it takes more from me than I think it would
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: just having a hard time managing what's for the world
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 3: and what's for me and you seem to have a
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 3: good handle on that like how did you get there
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 3: or give me some advice or something.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: Realizing what's important, you know, and I refuse to take
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 4: a lot of time away from my family because we
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: don't that's time is the only commodity that we don't
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: get back. Was it always like that, though, or is
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 4: this like a recent revelation for you?
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: That's an interesting question because it's all. it's changed so much, right?
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Because I've had one daughter, two daughters, three daughters, four daughters.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like when I was my
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: first daughter, no, I was outside. But I was in
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: a completely different headspace. Like I was literally all about me. And,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: you know, not only was I trying to make it right.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: Like trying to get to that level where I'm like, yo,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 4: I'm not going back to Moscow and South Carolina.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I'm going to make this work.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: I was also like, my ego was getting the best
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: of me in a lot of those, a lot of
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 4: those spaces.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: So I wasn't even really thinking about home the way
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 4: that I should have been.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: But once I got, you know, really, really, really clear,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: I refuse to let work overshadow work. Family. Yeah. I
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: got to find a way to do both. Yeah. You
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? That's why you see me with
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: my wife. That's why my wife travels with me, you know, everywhere.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 4: And things like the cheerleading competition, like my wife knows
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 4: right now, the scheduling, she'll hit my assistant and be like,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: all right, This is this school thing. This is this
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: cheerleading thing. This is, you know, we got a daughter
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: in college now. Like this is, this is, yeah, this is.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: How old is your youngest?
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: Four. My youngest is four, about to be five, actually
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 4: five in a couple of weeks. And my oldest is
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: just turned 18 in June.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 4: So it's just like, all of that is already on
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: the calendar. So my team and everybody knows, this is
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: not happening. This is not happening.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: Things like working out, working out, going to therapy, non-negotiables. Yeah. Non-negotiables.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: Like, yo, something's during the day, can't be on Monday, Wednesday.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: It's my workout schedule for the week, y'all. You know,
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 4: work around that. You got to, you know, always make
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 4: time for what's important. And what's important is you and
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: your family.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 4: Everything else, I promise you it'll be there. It's not
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: going anywhere.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: Nah, that gives me hope that I'll slide into that
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: frame of mind with more infrastructure because before I came here,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 3: Even coming up here, I wash both of the girls' clothes,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: wash all their clothes, put them in the space tomorrow. Like, hey,
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: they can put their own clothes away in the drawer.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: Don't let them smoke you. I ordered dinner for them
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 3: on the train ride up here on the Amtrak.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: Ordered dinner.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: Like, you don't got to think about it. It's enough
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: dinner for two days. I'll be back day after tomorrow.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: And just this don't stop what it takes to be
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 3: a family man. But God damn, man, they both are
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: such demanding things.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: You working.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: And you got to figure out where you are in
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: both spaces. When you traveling, you go back. Now everybody
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: panties in a different drawer.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? You working. Everything different. I
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: get it. You got to work. Because there is no
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: such thing as work-life balance. No, that's not a thing.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: I hate when people ask me about work-life balance. It's
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: the biggest myth in the world. Especially if you're trying
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: to be great. Nope. Especially, and Obama said that, especially
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to be great, there's no work-life balance.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: That's right. Something is going to suffer.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: Something is going to suffer, whether it's your family or
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 4: your work.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: And for me, at.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: This point in my life, it's going to probably always
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: be the work.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: That's surprising coming from you.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't guess that.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: But I got a team. Like I said, I got
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: a team. I got infrastructure.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 4: That's what we all want to get. We want to
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 4: get to that point where, you know, you're making that
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: horizontal money, right? Horizontal money is when you're making that
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: money when you sleep, when you don't got to be
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 4: on your feet, you know, grinding all the time. And
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 4: you asked me something earlier that made me think about
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: this just now. Like, I don't want to be, I
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 4: don't want me to always have to be a part
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: of something in order for that.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: But that's where I am right now. I'm the CEO,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: I'm the product, I'm the voice, but that's why I'm
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: building the infrastructure now so that one day I'm not
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: shaking ass for money the same way.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: You were shaking ass for money? What club you was at? See,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: that was crazy. And see, now if I make a
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: gay joke there, then I'm wrong, okay?
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: I never said you were wrong.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: I just want to know what club you was at.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: What club did you used to be at? That's not
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: too far to you. You said you were shaking ass
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: for money.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: That's a figure of speech, like dancing for dollars.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: I heard that one from a guy.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: First time for everything, man. Charlamagne, I can talk to
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: you for hours, brother. And I'll say this to you,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: and I'll say this one. You're the same person on
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: camera as you are off camera, which I don't know. Well,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 3: you probably know this during the Breakfast Club all these years,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: but that's rare, man. Some people get in on camera,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: and they switch up. They become something different. This camera's
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: going to shut off, and this man is going to
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: be the same person he's been for the last hour
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: plus we've been talking. And that's something that I really
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: appreciate about you, man. I appreciate your voice. I feel
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: like you've embraced me from the first time we met.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: It's been nothing but love. It's been nothing but like, hey, man,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: if there's an opportunity for me to help, let me know.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: I remember that video that you.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: Did when you went viral when you was walking with
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: your daughter.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, the first one that went crazy.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 4: That was so powerful because I understood exactly where you
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: were at. I think something happened that one day, you know,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 4: we may realize, but from like, I think from like
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 4: 2016 and now over the past decade, there was some
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: type of shift that happened in a lot of, a
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 4: lot of, a lot of brothers, you know what I mean? And,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 4: and I heard the conversation start to be different. And
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: I heard, you know, all of us seeking more. And
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 4: when you did that video, man, you just put more
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: fuel on that fire. And so to see you go
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: from that, to become a licensed, uh, Right. To do
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 4: what you're doing now. You know, it all starts when
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: you do. And, you know, this this podcast and like
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: just to see you growing because you answered the call
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: of service. That's what you did. You answered the call
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: of service. That's why I don't want you to get
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 4: caught up in any other calls that you're receiving right now.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 4: Because if the calls aren't about you being of service,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: I promise you it's not worth picking up. Because that's
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 4: what's going to continue to help you to grow. And
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 4: you know, you're going to be at my mental health expert. Yes,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 4: we already got everything figured out.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: I'm there. That's right.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 4: October 10th at the Joelle and Diane Bloom Wellness and
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 4: Events Center in Newark, New Jersey. I'm glad to have
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 4: you a part this year because this year we're really
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: just focusing on solutions.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: Action. We talked about that when I did Breakfast Club.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: It's okay to not be okay. We've been doing that
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 3: for a decade.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: A decade. What's next?
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: We've had all the conversations about eradicating the stigma.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: We did that.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: And I think those conversations should still continue. But there's
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 4: people that are ready to take that next step. And
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 4: that next step is solutions and pathways to healing. So
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: I'm glad you're going to be there on October 10th,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 4: World Mental Health Day.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Nah, thanks.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: Thanks for inviting me. And shout out to my girl,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: Debbie Brown.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Debbie Brown.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 4: That's my good sister, man. I've known Debbie for 20
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: plus years.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: Crazy life into me, man.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: I love talking to her. Me and Debbie used to
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: sleep on each other's couches, literally. Not a figure of speech. Like, yo, Deb,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: I'm in LA. I don't got no money for no hotel.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: What's up?
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: Got a crash on your couch? When she had roommates
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: and everything, like, you know, same thing. Shaw, I'm in
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: New York. I don't got no place to stay. What's up?
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: Crashing on the couch. Like, that's, I got bulletproof love
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: I'm about to say, that builds a different type of
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: bond when the blood is thick like that, man.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: Come on, man. Where can they find you? They're like,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: is that a thing with you, man? Yeah. No, listen.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's do the thing. What do they find you?
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: I'm on Breakfast Club every morning, 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: We come on on Netflix, 6 a.m. to 9, 15 a.m. live.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: It's live on Netflix. So you can just tune into
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: Netflix and watch us live. And yeah, download the Breakfast
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: Club podcast, Brilliant Idiots podcast, all of that good stuff, man.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: When Charlemagne hits billionaire status, just remember he was on
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: the Learn the Hard Way pod.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: At this rate. It ain't going to take long.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Now, thank you. Thank you for coming, bro.
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: You're right. Yeah. Oh, I know I'm right. I know
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm right. That's not a goal, but you're right. I mean,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: it don't have to be. It's a trajectory. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: I see it. Yeah. You see a bill? I see
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: companies that have valuations of billions of dollars.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: That is such a smart way.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Not personal.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: That's how you know somebody about to hit a bill
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: when they answer the question like that.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: It is the truth. That's just not the perspective of
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. I see companies that have valuations
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: of billions of dollars. Nah, bro. I'm going to be
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: cheering for you all the way, man.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: And if you are a listener of this podcast, Yeah,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: I think I speak for Charlamagne when I say, man,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: we cheering for you too.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: If there was anything in this podcast that you heard
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 3: that has inspired you or made you think or force
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: you to believe or just made you reorient your thinking
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit, man, tell us about it.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: Don't keep it to yourself. We trying to build this community.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: Brick by Brick.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: Brick and the only way we're going to do that
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: is if we have a conversation that we keep going
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 3: so make sure you go to learnthehardwaypod.com make sure that
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: you leave us a message and we will answer some
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: of the messages live on the well it's not live
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: it's we're going to answer the joints on the pod
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 3: alright that's how we're going to do it but yeah
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: great conversation today I got a lot to think about
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you do too and until the next episode
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: y'all be well Take care.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Job well done. Peace.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: Learn the Hard Way is a production of iHeart Podcast.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: I'm your host, Keir Gaines. We're produced by Courtney Deans
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: and Kacen Alexander.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Ashley J.
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: Hobbs is our senior producer. Our executive producers are Will Packer, Dr.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: Joy Harden-Bradford, Alex Baldwin, and Carla Wilmaris.