Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Episode 291 The Power of Perception in Leadership featuring Sylvie di Giusto

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Episode 291 The Power of Perception in Leadership featuring Sylvie di Giusto · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

• 0:01
  Intro: Welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more. Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Davina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Davina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams.
• 0:47
  Now here's Davina.
• 0:50
  Davina: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. I'm your host, Divina Frederick, and my guest today is Sylvie Digisto. Sylvie is an international keynote speaker who brings decades of corporate expertise and experience from Europe to her award winning presentations. A former management consultant for Fortune 100 companies, head of a management academy, and chief of staff at Europe's largest retail and tourism group, she has a deep understanding of leadership, strategy, and performance. As the world's first three d immersive keynote speaker, Sylvie helps organizations enhance leadership, drive sales success, and elevate brand reputation.
• 1:32
  She is the author of a 10 part series called The Image of Leadership and Discover Your Fair Advantage, and she empowers professionals to lead better, sell faster, and persuade instantly one intentional choice at a time. So please join me in welcoming Sylvie to the wealthy woman lawyer podcast. Hi, Sylvie. Welcome. I'm so glad you're here today on the wealthy woman lawyer podcast.
• 1:56
  Sylvie: Davina, thank you very much for having me. I'm so excited to be with you. Thank you for inviting me to your wonderful group and community.
• 2:04
  Davina: Oh, wonderful. I we are happy to have someone who's kind of an international star on the speaker stage. So, you're gonna bring a lot of interesting flavor to our conversation today, I think. So why don't you tell us I discussed in your bio kind of your background, but why don't you tell us how you work with clients and what you how what you help them do?
• 2:27
  Sylvie: Mhmm. So I, myself, I have a long corporate career. I was in the inside walls of corporations for more than twenty years. And, even if you are a business owner, you might understand or have observed the frustration that I had for twenty years. Very often, we hired people for vacant positions in those organizations.
• 2:51
  And during the interviews, they said all the right things. They behaved exactly the way we wanted them to behave. They even looked the way we wanted them to look. And then years later, due to a total lack of performance, for example, we had to fire them and let them go. And so I was always frustrated, between or about the gap between how we perceived people and how they actually turned out.
• 3:15
  And then on the other hand, we had so many young and ambitious and, you know, passionate professionals in that organization. And I wondered why didn't they stand out to us as potential candidates. Why didn't we hire them for those positions? And I figured, well, they didn't position themselves and present themselves to us as decision makers, as potential candidates as well. And so out of that frustration and learning on the both sides, when my lifelong dream came true to move to The United States, I left behind my corporate career, changed the sides, and went on the speaking side and thought that I share not just what I have learned about leadership, perception, decision making, customer interaction, sales during my corporate career, but also what I, until then and till today, have studied about decision making process, perception, unconscious biases, how we are influenced by first and lasting present perceptions, and impressions.
• 4:22
  And that is what I am so fortunate to do, to speak at conferences and conventions and share insights with leaders and professionals and business owners about how they are perceived by the world and what impact that perception has on a decision making process of others.
• 4:43
  Davina: That's so fascinating because we don't often think of how we we know who we are in our own mind and what our what our heart is and what we think we're here for and what we but often, we don't think about how we're being perceived by others in certain environments. Right? So we may know how we're perceived by others that we know well. But when we're going into work environment, we not we we may not be intentionally saying, how can I intentionally be perceived the way that I want to be perceived? Right?
• 5:18
  Is that what you're talking about?
• 5:19
  Sylvie: Absolutely. I'm just thinking you could give my keynote because I talk all about intention by intentionally crafting the way that you are perceived. But truth to be told is, first, it's always starting with you because we are all unique. Right? Davina, you would like to be perceived in a way that I wouldn't like to be perceived and vice versa, and that is good.
• 5:44
  So so I always encourage business owners and professionals to first define how they would like to perceive themselves and what imprint they actually would like to make on others. And you know there are lawyers out there who wants to imprint on others that they are trustworthy, but there are also lawyers who want to imprint on others that they are innovative and others creative and others maybe funny. Right? Right. And all those lawyers appear and behave and communicate differently.
• 6:19
  And so you have already tools available that you can shape your perception. But, and here's the but that many forget, your customers and clients, they have expectations. And you also must analyze those expectations because, yes, the funny lawyer, it is great that they are authentically funny. But if that is not the expectation of that one client you are interacting with that in that moment, then it has an impact on the decision making process. And I have asked, in my own research around 24,000 people during the last years about random professions.
• 7:04
  I asked them, what is your expectation for the picture perfect teacher? What is your expectation for the picture perfect police officer? What is your expectation? Different professions. And I let you guess now what is the number one word that comes to mind when the 24,000 people that I researched when I asked them, what is your expectation when you think of the picture perfect interaction with a lawyer?
• 7:30
  What do you think, Davina, is the number one word that
• 7:33
  Davina: you picture perfect lawyer? I would think it would be trustworthiness or integrity, something like that.
• 7:38
  Sylvie: Again again, you could give my keynote.
• 7:43
  Davina: Finally, I have a plan I could except for my stage fright. So, no, I could not give you a keynote. But
• 7:50
  Sylvie: The the number one word is trust. That is interesting. Yeah. The number two word is care. They want to
• 7:58
  Davina: see A lot of lawyers would be shocked by that. Yeah.
• 8:02
  Sylvie: And the number three word is attention to detail. Very surprising. Right? On the one hand, on the other, you know as a lawyer how much you have to dig into the detail because your clients don't want to and can not. So you need to ask yourself not just how you are authentically yourself, but also what are the expectations for the clientele you work with.
• 8:30
  And depending on the type of law you're working Right. Or even depending on the location you are based in, on on the cultural circumstances, those words might be different. And then it's up to you if you're with intention craft an appearance, a behavior, communication that fulfills both sides or not.
• 8:54
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. I talk with my clients often about you know, core values is something that people throw around, and they say, oh, we have to do our core values, homework, or whatever. When I'm talking to my clients, I'm talking to them about their well, most of them are starting firms. So they are, even as they're growing it, it's their core values as a person that is that we want to show up in our firm.
• 9:20
  And it and one of the things we talk about is how do we take that core value, that sort of esoteric and a and a concept, and how do we make it concrete? How does that core value show up in your business? So
• 9:36
  Sylvie: Mhmm.
• 9:37
  Davina: One of the things you we talk about trustworthiness. Right? How does trustworthy show up? What actions are we taking as a law firm? What are receptionists is doing?
• 9:46
  What are client care specialists doing? What are paralegals doing? What are our associate attorneys doing that convey trustworthy behavior to our clients and give them that comfort level? So it's a very tangible sort of thing. Mhmm.
• 10:01
  Is that something that you when you're talking about this image that we're crafting, is that something we're looking at doing is looking for concrete.
• 10:09
  Sylvie: I offer my clients a framework to do exactly that with themselves, but also with their teams along every single touch point that they have with customers. And when I work with them through that framework, I want them to look into five areas, which I very simply call the a, b, c, d, e. The a stands for their appearance. Like it or not, humans are visual creatures. Our brains actually don't like to work.
• 10:41
  That's why they take a shortcut through our eyes. And people just look at you as a lawyer or as somebody from a team of lawyers, and they think they know something about you by the way you look. Your body image, your clothes, the cuts, the fit, the colors, the quality, your hair, your makeup, your accessories, the entire visual picture that you paint in those interactions. Now this is not about, looking always trendy or looking always, like, a million bucks, but you need to be aware that your visual appearance is the first impression that you make on them because very often you don't even speak a word. Right?
• 11:25
  They just see you and they think that they know something about you. We know that, for example, in the first seven seconds, our brain makes up to 11 major decisions about somebody else. And so ask yourself, in our appearance, myself and every single team member's appearance, do we showcase trust? How does trust look like according to us as a brand, as an organization. Right?
• 11:55
  No. That doesn't have to be almost a boring, charcoal gray suit. You know, there are variations of trust, But how does it look like for us? How do we like to show up in person or on our pictures on the website? How does it look like?
• 12:12
  The second is the b for the behavior. Trust shows up in behavior. Your attitude. Do you have charisma trustworthy charisma when you walk into a room? How about your emotional intelligence?
• 12:29
  How about your morals and ethics? How about the things, the decisions that you make when nobody is watching? How about your conflict management skills? How in those all those behavioral interactions can you show that people instantly can trust you? And then there is the c for communication.
• 12:51
  Surprisingly, I will say the first part or the most important part about communication is actually not talking, not speaking. It doesn't include any words. It's listening. How good of a listener are you when potential clients reach out to you or the or in the conversations that you have with them on a case? And then your body speaks too.
• 13:15
  Does it speak trust all the time? Your facial expressions, your body language, and obviously the words that you choose, the language palette, the word patterns, the tone of your voice. Does it all say trust? Another is the d, and I want you to be especially aware of the d because it has become so tremendously important also or in particular in your industry, and that is your digital footprint. The most interactions we don't have in person anymore.
• 13:51
  We have them in some sort of digital way. The emails that you send out, do they signal trust every single time with beginning with the subject line, beginning with who you put on into the two field, into the cc field, your grandma, your signature? Does it all say trust? And always remember those emails can get forwarded and forwarded and forwarded it to people you don't even know somebody is reading your email right now that wasn't meant for them. Your social media.
• 14:23
  What if you Google your name? Now you might think, well, I have my website for my law firm. They should go there, not on my Facebook profile. But this is not how people think. They research your name and they look at everything that they find.
• 14:39
  Does everything they find on you online communicate trust the virtual meetings that you have and then there is the e Let look yourself and let your team look into your environment. And with that, I mean your physical environment and your social environment. The physical environment, your office. If somebody would come into your office, does it say trust instantly? Or your social environment, and this is very often one of the most underestimated ones.
• 15:15
  The people you hang out with, the people you surround yourself with, your friends, your family, your network, what they post on social media, does they say trust? Right? They might tag you. They might comment on your posts. And people take all of that into consideration when they create a perception about you.
• 15:36
  So to make those things tangible, look into your and your team's appearance, behavior, communication, digital footprint, and environment, and check if the words that you want to imprint as a brand and with your values on others really are applied in the way that people actually can instantly feel it subconsciously.
• 16:02
  Davina: That's that is that's a wonderful way to categorize that. Do does anybody ever tell you that feels very overwhelming?
• 16:13
  Sylvie: Yes. Yes. But here's the thing. You know, your image is a puzzle. It's a puzzle of millions of pieces that you have to put together every single day, and you're going to make mistake.
• 16:28
  You can't please everybody. You can't always imprint positively exactly what you want. I make mistake every single day. Right? I am not in control of all the minds around me, but here's what I always say.
• 16:43
  If you don't at least try to take control of it, somebody else will. Because your brand is not what's on your website. It's not your logo. It's not what you put out there. Your brand is what people feel and say behind your back.
• 17:03
  Davina: Right. Right.
• 17:05
  Sylvie: And so we we never really know what our image really is because nobody is telling us. Even if you ask your team members, your community, your boss, or whoever you're gonna ask, Even if they respond with words, those words are heavily influenced by the relationship those people have to you. So even if they would like to, they just can't tell you the truth anymore. So in that big piece of puzzle, in that big puzzle, all those millions of pieces, no, it's overwhelming. You can't control all of them.
• 17:41
  But by intentionally controlling many of them, you're already doing much better than others. And Right. You've been just trying
• 17:49
  Davina: to wing it. Yes. Yeah. Every because people bring themselves to the conversation too. If somebody has an opinion about me based on what I put out there, what my brand is, and they don't know me and they're going based on what they see.
• 18:03
  They're also bringing their own filter to the conversation. And so it really can't be about you. It's not really about pleasing everyone as much as it is saying, is is the message I'm putting out into the world in alignment with who I want to be as a person? That kind of thing. Right?
• 18:24
  So you have written extensively. You have a series of books that you've written about the image of leadership. And I wanna talk specifically about leadership. We've talked a lot about sort of lawyers and and, you know, trust being that dominant characteristic people are looking for, but a lot of our listeners are building their own law firms. And one of the things that has been a challenge and one of the things I'm often talking with them about is just because you hire people doesn't mean that you automatically know how to be a leader to those people.
• 18:58
  And I think we sort of automatically think I'm building this business. I'm hiring people, and it's real simple. These are the clients. This is the work we're doing, and you're gonna come in, and we're gonna get the work done, and we're gonna focus on that. We're gonna have no drama environment.
• 19:10
  And then they're surprised when they start having all these sort of personnel issues. They're hiring people who who turn out not to be the right fit.
• 19:18
  Sylvie: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Davina: Our people change and leave and do their own thing. And then they're left sitting here going, what's wrong with me? I'm hiring the wrong people. Or everybody's gonna see this high turnover. And oftentimes, they're not looking inward and saying, where are my skills as a leader lacking because I haven't invested in sort of developing these skills.
• 19:43
  Mhmm. So talk to me about sort of the image of a leader and what people expect in a leader, and does that vary based on whether it's in business or socially or politically or or whatever?
• 19:58
  Sylvie: Well, first, if I may comment on the hiring issue that you just described, this is very, very common for everyone who has ever built a business. And here is one recommendation that I, I may share with you if you are in that situation. And this is don't hire for skills. Don't hire for skills how you hire for values. Look into the person's values.
• 20:28
  The skills is always something you can train them later. Look out for their natural talents rather than, if that is possible in your field, the certifications that they might have. Right? So I think, skills is something nowadays you can learn so easily. You can provide them with so many tools even for free sometimes for some of the skills that, you shouldn't hire for skills anymore.
• 20:58
  You should hire for values. Find the right people with the right values, and you will minimize the issues you will have hiring the wrong people. The second, as a leader, one of my most important core principles that I share is no matter if you're in a corporation or a business owner, you have to lead by example twenty four seven. They look at you and they follow the standards that you set. And so very often we are not aware so much of how we are doing things, how we are appearing, how we are behaving, how we are communicating because I call it the CEODCs.
• 21:44
  The longer we do our job and the more successful we are and the higher we have climbed the career ladder, the less self aware we become. We we would wish that we are more self aware, but the reality isn't there's a lot of science out there that proof that The the longer we do things, the higher we climb, but the more successful we are, the less self we are we are because the more we are convinced that what we are doing is right and correct, and the less we get outside feedback because people are dependent on you. They have, you know, they have a codependent relationship. So why should they really tell you the truth if you are the firm owner? So you need to step back and double check every time, how do I appear, how do I behave, how do I communicate, because that sets the standard in my team.
• 22:39
  They are subconsciously watching you, and you are setting the tone. You are setting the standard. You can't expect more from them than they see you applying every single day. And then, you know, the most overused word in leadership, in my opinion, is authenticity. You will hear so many speakers walking on stages and say, you you just do you.
• 23:09
  Right? As a leader, it's important that you are authentic. And I think that authenticity in the way it is shared with us is a lie. We all play roles. Every single day, I play roles, you play roles, Davina.
• 23:32
  I play a role as a mother of two wonderful children. I play a role as a wife to my house husband. I play a different role as a speaker on stage. I play a different role as the business owner at home to my team. I play a different role as a volunteer to my community.
• 23:53
  Yes. In those roles, I'm authentic, but it has a different hue. It has a different flavor. I can't speak to my children the same way like I speak to my clients. And just imagine I would speak to my husband the same way I would speak like I speak to my team and vice versa.
• 24:13
  Right. Right. So while you should have a clear red thread, which usually are our core values, make sure that you have clearly defined for you how that authentic leader role looks like for you. Where are the boundaries? Where does it start?
• 24:34
  Where does it end? And how do you fulfill that role before you go home and become a mother again or a wife again or you become the volunteer in the community because that leader role looks, behave, and communicates online and offline quite differently, although it's the same person. And the last one, and I'm saying that because I'm a fellow woman, and I just can't hold back on that stereotype because I am proof for it. As female leaders, we have a tendency to take care of everybody else first, of our families, of our, you know, our children, our mothers and fathers and sisters and aunties and aunts and spouses and then the neighbors and the wider community and then our team and our clients. And guess who is the one person we constantly forget about?
• 25:35
  It is us.
• 25:37
  Davina: Mhmm.
• 25:38
  Sylvie: And there is a very simple leadership principle I wanna share with you. If you don't take care of yourself, people don't assume that you have the capability that you can take care of them as well. I repeat that for you. If you don't take care of yourself, people don't believe that you are a good leader and that you can take care of themselves.
• 26:07
  Davina: That's very
• 26:07
  Sylvie: powerful leadership. Yeah. Very often starts with yourself, with self leadership and taking care of yourself, and I know how how difficult this is. Right. And I know how overwhelming this can be.
• 26:22
  But even if you don't do it for yourself first, think about the impact it has on your leadership and how much easier it could be when your team members see you as somebody who really honors yourself, respects yourself, takes care of yourself, invests in yourself because then it's easier to follow you as well.
• 26:48
  Davina: So there's a lot to unpack here. I wanna go back to the authenticity part because I think a lot of people hide behind this now, and they say, well, I was just being authentic. I spoke that way because I was just being me. This is how I talk. Right.
• 27:06
  And if you were in a leadership role, you also need to think about it's it's a communication. It's not just you getting to it's not you at home authentically in your sweatpants with your hair in a bun and pimple patches on your face or whatever. Like, it's not off you wouldn't show up that way to a corporate meeting. So also that, sometimes people will be brusque or blunt or whatever, impatient or I I always encourage directness because I think a lot of women are not direct enough in their communication. They're trying to soften and sweeten.
• 27:45
  But sometimes people will say things, and then they'll go, well, that's just me. That's me being authentic. And there's the danger because it's really not just about you. It's about when you're leading, it's really about communication. All of this, this image that you're talking about is about communicating with others.
• 28:01
  Mhmm. And it's about relationship. Mhmm. Mhmm. Leadership.
• 28:05
  Sylvie: When you say it's about them, my response would be no because you said it to a person. So it's also about that person. It's not just about you. Right? Yeah.
• 28:15
  Yeah. In my book, the image of leadership, I describe or I have a chapter where I have to describe the common excuses that you will have to face as a leader because this is kind of the outlet for some of the team members to come up with excuses to explain their own limitations or capabilities. And, you just shared one of them. Another one is, well, we are in New Jersey and not in Manhattan as if professionalism would have a ZIP code. Right?
• 28:52
  Davina: Right. Right.
• 28:54
  Sylvie: Or, what could be another one? Well, you know, Mark Zuckerberg also made it with a hoodie and now is a multibillionaire. Yeah. But as long as you didn't invent a multibillion dollar company in your garage or wherever, we are not there yet to wear a hoodie at board meetings. And I have seen Mark Zuckerberg more often in suits than you in hoodies because whenever he needed money, he thought a suit is a very good idea.
• 29:25
  So you will constantly face excuses. And, I describe those excuses and way to handle them in my book, but I also point out that you can only address those excuses with the confidence we just did if you lead by example Because you can't stand there in your hoodie and point things out. Right? Like the last very obvious example that I share. So leading by it always starts with leading by example.
• 29:56
  Davina: Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. I had a conversation. This has been a few years ago with a client, that I was coaching, and she's she would often show up. Now to our meetings, our meetings can every it's come as you are to our meetings.
• 30:09
  I I usually dress for my meetings, and then I would have clients show up and they'd have their hair in a ponytail. And then I didn't put on makeup today or whatever. And I said, it's okay. Like, for what we're doing, it's private, and and we're working with you individually, and it's okay. But I had a client say to me, she would often exercise run, and then she would come and she would she was a lawyer, and she would show up on virtual meetings having just come from working out.
• 30:36
  And she told me, she says, I feel like my clients feel like they can come any way that they want to if they see me come any way that I want to. And I have a different viewpoint of that. Even though my clients come any way they want to, I always prepare. You know? I'm always I always my hair, my makeup, and, you know, like, I'm not to the nines, but I am ready to gauge.
• 31:05
  And and that is part of that is my role as as leading this conversation and leading what we're gonna discussing. As much as I'm prepared with my thoughts and what I'm doing, I'm also prepared in appearance. And so sometimes I think we think to ourselves we don't think of ourselves as being needing to be a leader in a situation or perceived as that even when we're not the the leader, so to speak, showing up and saying bringing your best self to the table, whether that's appearance or behavior or whatever, right, in professional. And every time that I have slipped up and said something that might be authentic but might not be appropriate for the conversation, it's come back to bite me. Somebody has called me on it because there's an expectation now of how I show up.
• 32:01
  Right? And I have to apologize or or say, you know, right, because I was being my authentic self, but maybe I was a little too authentic in this situation. So it's not gonna be something perfect, but it's something I think it's really about mindfulness of Mindfulness.
• 32:16
  Sylvie: Of your Intention.
• 32:18
  Davina: Intention. Intention. Like, what is it that you want? If you want the successful career, you want and we see this with we have a a lot of young lawyers who are coming out of law school. February, they've they've passed you know, they've taken the bar.
• 32:32
  Now they're getting the results. And and they're coming out, and they, are going into a workforce as who they authentically are. And this is something where they might want to think about, well, how do I wanna be perceived by these people that, you know, I'm trying to work for? And I think we're seeing a lot of them saying, oh, I don't really need to impress these people. Yeah.
• 32:58
  And there's a real change and a shift in the workplace as a result of that.
• 33:01
  Sylvie: Yeah. Yeah. Whereas What we need to accept, though, especially not you, but somebody like me from an older generation, is that the workplaces have shifted. Right? The rules that we had years, years, years ago might not apply anymore.
• 33:19
  Those dress codes, for example, might not apply anymore. Now we have, harder codes to follow, like digital footprint, social media use, use of artificial intelligence. We have way bigger problems than how people transit work in Right. Some organizations. But, the believe it or not, the pandemic has really helped in this case.
• 33:47
  It has really helped to create a more understanding that we all aren't almost perfect. While you and I would probably not jump in front of the camera for this interview in our workout close, six, seven years ago, it would have been barking outside. Right?
• 34:12
  Davina: I didn't hear your dog barking, but I understand
• 34:14
  Sylvie: you're said, oh my god. She's so unprofessional. She has a dog outside barking.
• 34:19
  Davina: It definitely has changed. It definitely has changed.
• 34:21
  Sylvie: And during the pandemic, we all realized, oh, wow. We all got a little bit grounded. Right? Grounded in our expectations that we are all humans, and we all have, you know, some some things that are not so perfect. But what I want you to keep in mind is since you mentioned the decline in the rip off clothes, there is a very famous study that proves a concept called enclosed clothing, what impact clothes, for example, have on yourself.
• 34:52
  They tested doctors giving them a white lab coat or not and what impact it had on their self confidence. And what's so just I just would need it for myself. So even if you don't use it to imprint on others, always think about what could it do about your self confidence, about your self esteem, about your charisma. When you look into the mirror, when you see yourself, what does it for you and how will that ripple effect then go out when you interact with others?
• 35:27
  Davina: Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that I'm, clear too. I'm not I'm using that as an example of a changing
• 35:36
  Sylvie: Mhmm.
• 35:36
  Davina: Mindset. Yeah. I have another client who dances on a she's an attorney, has her own firm, but she loves to dance. She takes dance classes and dances, and it's a lot of sort of hip hop style dancing and and sexy dancing and that kind of thing. And she actually I would first of all, I I would never put a picture of myself out dancing anywhere because it would just be not good.
• 35:59
  But but the thought there is a time where that would have been a career ruiner. Mhmm.
• 36:06
  Sylvie: If
• 36:06
  Davina: if when I was coming up in a career working for other people, if you were caught when social media first came out, if you were posting pictures of yourself out drinking and partying, if you were posting your pic pictures of yourself dancing, you know, in sexy ways and things like that, that could be a fireable offense because of how you were a reflection on the company Mhmm. In terms of, you know, this you we're a button down. We're a trustworthy law firm. We're all of these. And if you were you were told that your behavior outside of work was captured on social media reflects on the company, and you might still see some of that.
• 36:46
  Mhmm. But now as we're seeing more in her particular case, she's using that to show people a blended person, a whole person. I'm this person, and I'm also the and I do these things. And I'm a person like you, and I have the same I'm a young person like you, and I have the same concerns you do. She talks a lot about, prenups and money and all these kinds of things, and she's in the dating world.
• 37:14
  And so it there is a shift in how people show up in a business environment today. And we have a new generation, new generations who are thinking differently, and social media is a big part of that. I know my social media manager's always wanting to show me to show pictures of me at home doing things because I work from home. And I'm like, like, it's so boring. You're gonna see the same things over and over again.
• 37:43
  I did some video of me doing some stuff, but I'm like, really? This excites you. But it did better than any other content out there. Oh my god. There is there is a leadership.
• 37:53
  And it's not about leadership. It's not about it's it is a but it is dehumanizing.
• 38:00
  Sylvie: Yes. Yes.
• 38:01
  Davina: Right? Saying, okay. There's Divina in her sweatshirt, and she's reading a book. She's barefooted reading a book, and she does this at home. You know?
• 38:09
  Like, so I see her as a person who's like me. So it is really interesting, the shifting aspects of this sort of image. Mhmm. And how image shows up, differently now than it did ten years ago even.
• 38:25
  Sylvie: Yes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. May I quickly comment on two things, Damina?
• 38:31
  When I am on stage, I I wear quite outrageous outfits. You know? I wanna be colorful. I wanna stand out, and I would describe it as rather unique, but intentionally unique. And my social media team wanted me to give my audience a tour through my wardrobe, through my closet.
• 38:54
  And I said, why would anybody be interested in it? Why? Why? I I would rather share 10 tips about x y z. And guess which one was the most successful video so far?
• 39:07
  Davina: Closet. We all wanna see your closet. What's in there?
• 39:10
  Sylvie: That's right. But, in terms of the dancer, I'm gonna add one extra layer on this. I would use it to her advantage because it is what I call a fear advantage. I wrote another book, Discover Your Fair Advantage, where I help, business owners discover their 15 unique selling points. You know, what is unique about them that nobody else in the market has to offer?
• 39:40
  And very often we are not aware about those superpowers. And secondly, we don't use them to our advantage. So if I would be that lawyer with those beautiful dance moves, I would work on something in my bio just as I control the dance moves on the dance floor, I will control at court, whatever. Right? Mhmm.
• 40:05
  Bridge it somehow to your work that they see, oh, wow. She's a human being with that passion, which is beautiful. But there is also a connection to it. Right. Right?
• 40:17
  There is I
• 40:17
  Davina: think I think she's done a really good job of it. I've been watching I've just been, you know, I've just been telling her so for me as a coach, I'm look I had to look at that and say, okay. I'm this is not about me. This is about her and who she is and wants to show up as. And she has done a beautiful job of really bridging that and showing people that the the the that this is a part of her life, and she's a great attorney, and she's also this.
• 40:55
  And you can be, you know, you can we we're all here in the same generation dealing with the same things, talking about and she's also attracting her ideal clients through that. So she's communicating with people who also love the culture and the dance and all of that. And she's attracting those people who who say, I relate to you. You I get you. You're this creative, artistic person.
• 41:25
  And so she's gonna attract those same, types of people that she is around, you know, that she enjoys being around. And so I think she's done a really good job, and she's done a good job. And she talks a lot about money and, the importance of prenuptial agreements to young people and to as you're building a life and you're in relationships and all of that, controlling your money and understanding how your, the life of your money and how valuable that is in you taking care of yourself throughout your life. You know? So she's just done a really good job in it.
• 42:04
  And it's been enlightening for me to see because I'm coming from a place of, oh my god. You never you wouldn't take a picture of yourself out at a party with a an alcoholic beverage in your hand. You would always hide it if somebody was taking a picture at a party. And so it's it's quite interesting to see somebody take that and actually roll it into part of their brand and their marketing.
• 42:25
  Sylvie: And
• 42:25
  Davina: I'm seeing that a lot on social media with the, younger lawyers. And I say younger millennials and Gen z. So millennials are in there as well. And then those of us who are older, I'm definitely Gen x, we're having to say having to sort of say, well, this is a real world that I'm marketing in now, and maybe I need to listen to other people and say, what what is it that people are wanting to see in terms of them trusting me as a leader?
• 42:55
  Sylvie: Mhmm. You know? Balance is key. Balance is always key. But, I have to tell you, Divina, I'm so impressed by your perspectives.
• 43:03
  The next time one of my flights is delayed or canceled, can can I, can I call you if you can jump in for me for for a presentation or a keynote? Because I hope that I was even able to share something. You share so many, amazing things about this topic already.
• 43:21
  Davina: Uh-oh. I appreciate that. It is it is I I'm not the, it's funny. I love the reason I love social media and podcasting and video is that I don't have to get dressed up any you don't wanna you don't wanna tour of my closet. Let's put it that way.
• 43:41
  But I want to talk about before we end here, speaking of your presentations, I wanna talk about the world's first three d immersive keynote speaker. You're the world's first three d immersive keynote speaker. Tell me what that is and what that was like.
• 43:57
  Sylvie: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You know, I'm in the professional speaking arena since sixteen years now. And, I always was unique in the rate that I believe at this point, audience have seen it all. A speaker coming in, telling a few stories, adding a few slides, putting a few data facts and figures out and leaving.
• 44:26
  And the hardest job the hardest job at a conference is being an audience member. I sometimes force myself to sit in the audience, and then I realize how hard it is to sit there for a day trial.
• 44:41
  Davina: To stay awake.
• 44:42
  Sylvie: To speaker from one speaker to the next speaker, and it's almost the same formula with a little bit of flavor here or here or here. I truly believe that a keynote should be an experience, not a presentation, something that they feel where they are part of. And so I always was known for very interactive methods that I used. But just before the pandemic, I was at Cirque du Soleil. One of my clients was so kind to take us to Cirque du Soleil after the conference, and all of a sudden, I saw holographic courses running across the stage.
• 45:23
  And they came in as fast as they were gone, and then they came again. And it was they were so clear that it was not sure, are they real or are they an illusion? And I started to research then and quickly got into holography and thought if I could use that method, possibly. But what always bothered me was that holography is two dimensional. And then I thought, if I just use holography, it's nothing more than fancier slides.
• 45:50
  Then I might have a ring next to me that somehow lit up, but I could also have a lit up ring on a slide next to me. Right? And so I worked really hard on the technology, researched the entire world, found a team, combined it with a second team, and it took us, two years until we developed all the animations and all the technology in a way that it could be three-dimensional. So now when I go on stage, there are no slides. The room is dark, and I go on stage and then imagine a three-dimensional holographic brain develops over me.
• 46:38
  And rather than talking about the series of decision making, I take you into the brain and show you which parts are engaged, what is happening. I can move it around. Or rather than talking with you about the impact of appearance on somebody, I magically change my clothes on stage while while I present. Wow.
• 47:03
  Davina: That's amazing.
• 47:04
  Sylvie: Rather than explaining to you what impact an accent has, when you interact with others and you communicate, all of a sudden, my accent can be gone, and I speak picture perfect American English.
• 47:20
  Davina: Wow. Wow.
• 47:22
  Sylvie: So I use a lot of, technology to do some magic on stage. And I think one of the most beautiful compliments I've ever received was from a business bureau partner who said, he measures the impact of a speaker by sitting in the last row. He always sits in the last row to see how many people are on their phones. And he told me when the first ring came up, hundreds of phones went up to take a picture, you know, to capture the moment. And after a while, they all went back, and they were mesmerized for forty five minutes.
• 48:04
  And he didn't see one phone light up once because it's such a new magic away. So yeah. That is amazing.
• 48:13
  Davina: That is amazing.
• 48:14
  Sylvie: And always grateful when clients trust me to bring that magic to them.
• 48:18
  Davina: Yeah. What a what a talent. And to be able to and so much work went into that. And I love that you brought other people into that process with you to you really led a movement into sort of this changing way of presenting. I I I bet it was just amazing.
• 48:39
  You you created your own Cirque du Soleil.
• 48:42
  Sylvie: Yes. Yes. Yes. But if you are interested in speaking, I don't want to discourage you. This is not what it takes nowadays to get started.
• 48:51
  I started sixteen years ago. Right? If
• 48:54
  Davina: You just got bored with it and wanted to
• 48:56
  Sylvie: change it up. Yeah. Yes. So if you are interested in entering the beautiful world of speaking to share your message with others, I still believe that nowadays you have to be very unique to be successful. I mean, there are millions of speakers out there, hundred thousands who probably speak about the same topic like you speak.
• 49:17
  So you need at least a unique angle or a unique specific niche topic or expertise, but the times of, the big grant and just a motivational speaker are, unfortunately, gone because the mark the market is so overcelerated by speakers that in the meantime to stand out, you have to offer something unique. It doesn't have to be a three d holographic Yeah. Right. Right.
• 49:50
  Davina: Right. I think the you know, there's so many speakers that through the years have copied Steve Jobs. Whereas the there's this sort of you know, we walk out on the dark stage, and then we you know? And then when he did it, it was a very unique thing. And now, you know, or slide shows or things like that.
• 50:11
  You know? It is I think it is a challenge. I certainly am finding it even with webinars. I've been creating webinars for a long time now, and I'm actually about to meet with somebody to talk about something more innovative because Mhmm. I think people are just that there's so much out there.
• 50:27
  How do we stand out? And I I appreciate all you've shared today because I think even just getting us to think about how we're showing up and think about the impact that's having on other people with us has been really powerful. And I know it'll get a lot of people thinking. I know a lot of people are gonna love this episode, so I appreciate you being here.
• 50:49
  Sylvie: Thank you very much for having me, Donny. It was such a pleasure talking with you. Thank you for the very thoughtful questions. And, again, you always can only be as good as the host is, and I really appreciate you asking so interesting question and helping me together with you serve your audience. Thank you.
• 51:07
  Thank you. We're also gonna have all
• 51:09
  Davina: the links that you guys need to connect with Sylvie in the show notes so you could check those out. And I'll see you guys again next week. Thanks, Sylvie.
• 51:18
  Intro: If you're ready to create more of what you truly desire in your business and your life, then you'll want to visit us at wealthywomanlawyer.com to learn more about how we help our clients create wealth generating law firms with ease.