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Fuel Not Fire with Dr. Lisa Strohman · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson.
0:04
Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
0:15
Speaker 1: So five, four, three, two, and one. Our folks, welcome
0:18
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
0:20
Speaker 1: guest today, Dr. Lisa Stroman. Lisa, welcome.
0:24
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
0:25
Speaker 1: Awesome. So Dr. Lisa Stroman is an attorney, licensed clinical psychologist.
0:30
Speaker 1: author and advocate whose work focuses on mental wellness and
0:34
Speaker 1: the impact of technology on children and families. She's the
0:37
Speaker 1: founder and director of Digital Citizen Academy, a nonprofit created
0:42
Speaker 1: to educate students, parents, and educators about technology addiction and overuse.
0:47
Speaker 1: In her clinical work, Dr. Stroman has spent more than
0:49
Speaker 1: a decade working with individuals, families, and adolescents experiencing depression, anxiety,
0:55
Speaker 1: and addiction and She's also the co-author of Unplug, Raising
0:59
Speaker 1: Kids in a Technology-Addicted World and Digital Distress Growing Up Online.
1:03
Speaker 1: All right, Lisa, just a little bit about you. Before
1:06
Speaker 1: we get going, share with our listeners where you're from
1:08
Speaker 1: originally and where you are currently.
1:12
Speaker 3: So I originally grew up in Northern California, just outside
1:15
Speaker 3: of Sacramento and kind of the country. So had chickens, goats, horses,
1:21
Speaker 3: all of the sorts. And then I ended up now
1:25
Speaker 3: I'm in Arizona. I came out here for residency and
1:29
Speaker 3: now I live in Cave Creek, Arizona, which is outside
1:33
Speaker 3: of Scottsdale and have chickens and dogs and a different
1:38
Speaker 3: kind of farm.
1:40
Speaker 1: So, OK, how does this start? All this start for you.
1:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think how I became who I am was
1:50
Speaker 3: probably goes back to that original life in California. I
1:54
Speaker 3: was really young when my parents got divorced. And I
1:58
Speaker 3: had actually a neighbor who was a psychologist. I didn't
2:01
Speaker 3: know it at the time. I just knew him as
2:03
Speaker 3: Uncle Mike. And my parents had this very contentious argument
2:09
Speaker 3: that ended up in an assault. And there's drinking and
2:12
Speaker 3: things going on all the time. But this one was different.
2:15
Speaker 3: And I just remember at the age of five, running
2:19
Speaker 3: next door, um, following my mom and, um, asking my
2:23
Speaker 3: uncle how to spell divorce.
2:24
Speaker 2: And so it was kind of from that moment on that, um.
2:28
Speaker 3: You know, I knew that there was problems and other
2:32
Speaker 3: things started to happen in my life. And, um, and
2:35
Speaker 3: I had, but for the grace of God and my
2:37
Speaker 3: grandmother who lived and moved in with us, um, I
2:41
Speaker 3: don't know whether or not I would be here today.
2:44
Speaker 3: She was my guiding light and my purpose and the
2:47
Speaker 3: person that I could always lean into and find solace with.
2:52
Speaker 1: Did you have siblings?
2:56
Speaker 2: I did.
2:56
Speaker 3: So I had an older brother, 18 months older than
2:59
Speaker 3: I did, who went an entirely different path. I witnessed
3:04
Speaker 3: a lot of the addictions and abuse and the contentiousness
3:09
Speaker 3: and Really came in and struggled internally with that, but
3:14
Speaker 3: became a really great student.
3:16
Speaker 2: Decided I would never get a B in my life.
3:18
Speaker 3: I decided that I was going to go and be
3:21
Speaker 3: the square peg in the school and never did any
3:24
Speaker 3: of the drugs or did anything. And my brother went
3:26
Speaker 3: the complete opposite and did everything that he shouldn't have done.
3:31
Speaker 2: So it was an interesting childhood, to say the least.
3:35
Speaker 1: So was this... You used the word contentious episode between
3:39
Speaker 1: your parents. Was that the quote-unquote beginning of what for you?
3:47
Speaker 3: Really, as a child, I don't think I saw– looking
3:51
Speaker 3: back now with my education, I think that that moment
3:55
Speaker 3: was the first time I really saw– that their relationship
4:00
Speaker 3: was not going to work. And it truly, after that moment,
4:03
Speaker 3: they never went back and lived together. My dad was
4:07
Speaker 3: a very powerful man. He was in charge of the
4:11
Speaker 3: Department of Justice.
4:11
Speaker 2: He was a bureau chief.
4:12
Speaker 3: He ran the forensic labs in the state of California.
4:15
Speaker 3: And so this is back in the mid-70s when this
4:24
Speaker 3: divorce and separation started. And he ended up getting sole
4:29
Speaker 3: custody of my brother and I, um, over my mom and, um,
4:34
Speaker 3: which tells you kind of the dysfunction there. And, um,
4:37
Speaker 3: you know, I ended up being living homeless and, um, having, um,
4:41
Speaker 3: you know, many a day without food, um, you know,
4:45
Speaker 3: having to, you know, resource clothing from my brother or from,
4:48
Speaker 3: from Goodwill. And, um, that was my life with my mom.
4:52
Speaker 3: And then with my dad, you know, we had pretty
4:54
Speaker 3: stable life with my grandmother and, And so the fighting
4:57
Speaker 3: and the court system was a part of my everyday
5:00
Speaker 3: as a child.
5:02
Speaker 1: So how were you psychologically, emotionally dealing with this during
5:07
Speaker 1: this time? So high school, what do you– you mentioned
5:13
Speaker 1: no Bs. Were you just like perfectionism, diving in to
5:18
Speaker 1: academics or what? Yes.
5:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I found out pretty early.
5:23
Speaker 3: And, you know, I speak about this now on occasion,
5:27
Speaker 3: but in second grade, I had a very immense traumatic
5:32
Speaker 3: experience that changed everything in my life. I had, you know,
5:38
Speaker 3: at this point, I'm eight years old, and I had
5:40
Speaker 3: decided that life wasn't worth living at that point anymore.
5:45
Speaker 2: And I faked going to school.
5:48
Speaker 3: I went into the bathroom and I grabbed a bottle
5:51
Speaker 3: of pills and took the entire bottle and climbed under
5:54
Speaker 3: my bed and just hoped that I wouldn't have to
6:00
Speaker 3: live anymore in this, you know, just the pain and
6:03
Speaker 3: the hurt and everything. And at that moment, my second
6:06
Speaker 3: grade teacher, Mrs. Allison, it was back before schools automatically
6:10
Speaker 3: called if kids didn't come in, but she had kind
6:12
Speaker 3: of befriended me. She you know, had realized, um, you know,
6:16
Speaker 3: I'd come to school dirty on occasion or I wouldn't
6:18
Speaker 3: have food or, and so she called home and she said,
6:22
Speaker 3: you know, Lisa's not here.
6:23
Speaker 2: And my grandmother was home.
6:25
Speaker 3: And so my grandmother came into the room and the
6:27
Speaker 3: dog had been scratching at the door and opened it
6:30
Speaker 3: and found me. Um, we went to the hospital and, um,
6:35
Speaker 3: unfortunately for, um, For me, I had taken an entire
6:39
Speaker 3: bottle of asthma medication.
6:41
Speaker 2: So my heart was racing.
6:42
Speaker 3: Everything was going off the chart. And I just remember
6:49
Speaker 3: my grandmother bringing me home from the hospital.
6:52
Speaker 2: And we never spoke of it again. Not once.
6:56
Speaker 3: Didn't bring it up. Didn't talk about it. And so
7:00
Speaker 3: that was the beginning of us. We started reading the
7:02
Speaker 3: Bible together. That was when she took me to a
7:05
Speaker 3: church meeting. Every six months, she said, world wars are
7:07
Speaker 3: fought over this and everyone thinks they're right. I want
7:11
Speaker 3: you to have an understanding of the world. And she
7:14
Speaker 3: kind of took me under my grandmother on that end
7:16
Speaker 3: and Mrs.
7:16
Speaker 2: Allison on her end. And so I always reflect back.
7:21
Speaker 2: And in fact, when I speak publicly, I have a
7:24
Speaker 2: jelly bean necklace I wear. And Mrs.
7:27
Speaker 3: Allison told me when I came back to school, she said,
7:30
Speaker 3: I'm going to make you a deal.
7:31
Speaker 2: I will give you jelly beans for life.
7:34
Speaker 3: If you agree to go and take some tests for
7:36
Speaker 3: me and I, you know, I'm eight, of course I
7:40
Speaker 3: want jelly beans for life.
7:44
Speaker 2: And so I, of course I agree to that.
7:46
Speaker 3: And it's where I get identified as being a gifted
7:49
Speaker 3: student and all of these things that changed my life,
7:52
Speaker 3: really trajectory of my life. Because it was, you know,
7:55
Speaker 3: I had somebody that kind of been investing in me
7:57
Speaker 3: and giving me reasons and, And of course, she came
8:01
Speaker 3: true on her word and she handed me this necklace
8:03
Speaker 3: of plastic jelly beans that I still wear today. Anytime
8:06
Speaker 3: I speak in educational forums or tell my story because
8:10
Speaker 3: I do have jelly beans for life because of Mrs.
8:12
Speaker 1: Allison. So jumping ahead to you graduate high school, you
8:19
Speaker 1: go to college. What are you thinking when you go?
8:22
Speaker 2: What's pulling you?
8:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I met my husband in my freshman year
8:29
Speaker 3: of high school between from my eighth grade to ninth grade.
8:34
Speaker 3: He was two grades ahead. He was the same grade
8:36
Speaker 3: as my brother. And he's from a Catholic family. They
8:39
Speaker 3: were super stable, like, you know, the good kid and
8:42
Speaker 3: kind of launched, you know, latched on to him. And
8:46
Speaker 3: so when I graduate high school, I go to my
8:50
Speaker 3: dad had, you know, no, there's no money for college
8:52
Speaker 3: or any of those things. He retired as I as
8:56
Speaker 3: I graduated. And so I ended up finding Section 8
8:59
Speaker 3: housing for myself. I end up moving into an apartment,
9:04
Speaker 3: going to junior college. um, working two jobs, um, to
9:09
Speaker 3: make ends meet. And, um, and then I get the
9:13
Speaker 3: opportunity to go to either UCLA or UC Davis on
9:16
Speaker 3: a full ride after my junior college years.
9:18
Speaker 2: And so I gave my husband's boyfriend at the time
9:21
Speaker 2: and ultimatum.
9:21
Speaker 3: And I said, if you're not going to marry me,
9:23
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to UCLA because my aunt's going
9:24
Speaker 3: to pay for the apartment. Um, and so that was it.
9:28
Speaker 3: We got engaged, um, at 19, I was engaged and
9:31
Speaker 3: married at 20. And so I knew that I wanted
9:35
Speaker 3: to be somewhere. I wanted stability and I wanted to
9:37
Speaker 3: be able to find my way out of that life
9:41
Speaker 3: that I had previously been in.
9:43
Speaker 1: And in terms of studies, pursuit, interests, what were you thinking?
9:48
Speaker 2: So I started out as a freshman.
9:52
Speaker 3: I started out, I thought I was going to go
9:53
Speaker 3: into nursing, which is, if anybody knows me, is ridiculous
9:57
Speaker 3: because I don't like people telling me what to do
9:59
Speaker 3: and I like to be the boss if I can
10:01
Speaker 3: be um but I couldn't handle blood and I didn't
10:04
Speaker 3: at the time know that I was going to be
10:05
Speaker 3: awful at that so very quickly in my first lab
10:09
Speaker 3: as I vomited in front of the entire classroom um
10:12
Speaker 3: decided to go into my real love, which was psychology.
10:14
Speaker 3: And I had a really cool professor and it just
10:18
Speaker 3: became easy. Like everything about psychology and humans and how
10:22
Speaker 3: they interact and how they operate has just been fascinating
10:26
Speaker 3: to me.
10:27
Speaker 1: So during this time, how are you managing? Are you,
10:34
Speaker 1: had you sought out therapy yourself or help?
10:38
Speaker 3: No.
10:39
Speaker 2: Um, you know, I, I became a, and I shouldn't
10:42
Speaker 2: say no.
10:43
Speaker 3: I think that going to church, having, having that time
10:47
Speaker 3: as a child was really, really helpful. Um, I had
10:50
Speaker 3: started out before kind of meditation or, um, even like
10:56
Speaker 3: before Eckhart Tolle became really popular, you know, I think
10:59
Speaker 3: I did a lot of mindfulness and like things like
11:01
Speaker 3: that where I would reflect and, and help. And I
11:03
Speaker 3: was always that kid that was who people came to
11:07
Speaker 3: for help. And so I think that my advocacy and
11:11
Speaker 3: my work, I worked for families, family unity, where children
11:15
Speaker 3: were taken from CPS and brought to this safe house
11:18
Speaker 3: before they were either fostered or returned to their families
11:22
Speaker 3: at 18, which is ridiculous.
11:24
Speaker 2: I worked for hospice for a couple of years.
11:26
Speaker 3: I worked for a family that had four autistic children
11:30
Speaker 3: and did advocacy and policy work for them during my
11:33
Speaker 3: undergraduate years. So I think that my stewardship of my wounds, right,
11:39
Speaker 3: that weren't created by me, but gave me the impression
11:43
Speaker 3: and the ability to know what resiliency was and what
11:46
Speaker 3: strength was, was my kind of platform to go out
11:51
Speaker 3: and do that for others. And so that's what I've
11:53
Speaker 3: done with that.
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Speaker 1: Was that a conscious move for you or not? I mean,
12:00
Speaker 1: was there any idea or thought? that what you'd experienced
12:04
Speaker 1: as a young kid was effed up and what's going
12:09
Speaker 1: on with me? Was there any of that going on?
12:12
Speaker 3: I don't think that I got to that point until
12:15
Speaker 3: I was in graduate school. I mean, I think that,
12:18
Speaker 3: you know, it was my normal.
12:20
Speaker 2: And so I didn't really know a different life.
12:24
Speaker 3: And when I look at it and I think about,
12:27
Speaker 3: you know, we can kind of trauma compare and things
12:31
Speaker 3: like that, but it doesn't get you anywhere. Everybody's experience
12:35
Speaker 3: is unique and what they do with it is unique.
12:38
Speaker 2: And so I didn't do it consciously.
12:39
Speaker 3: But I think that when I got through undergraduate school
12:45
Speaker 3: and one of my professors said, hey, maybe you should
12:48
Speaker 3: do this JD, PhD program because you really have a
12:52
Speaker 3: knack for identifying and looking at policy and structures and
12:56
Speaker 3: understanding the difference between right and wrong with that side
13:00
Speaker 3: of your empathy and compassion. So But for her, I
13:05
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't be where I am today because I don't
13:07
Speaker 3: think I would have done that joint program.
13:10
Speaker 1: And how does the interest of addiction, anxiety, technology come
13:16
Speaker 1: along for you?
13:18
Speaker 3: You know, this will take me back to my childhood.
13:21
Speaker 3: My first TED Talk, I think it was in 2016,
13:25
Speaker 3: was on addiction and empowering youth above technology addiction.
13:28
Speaker 2: And I talk about the story of my grandmother.
13:31
Speaker 3: My dad at the time, my dad was married several
13:35
Speaker 3: times and at the time he'd brought somebody in and
13:38
Speaker 3: there's kind of like a, you know, I guess a
13:41
Speaker 3: smoothing over gift. We got an Atari and which was
13:44
Speaker 3: a big deal. Like we did not have that kind
13:46
Speaker 3: of money. And so I get this Atari and there's,
13:48
Speaker 3: you know, these cassettes that you can put in.
13:50
Speaker 2: And I remember waiting and waiting and waiting.
13:52
Speaker 3: So my brother went to basketball or football practice and I,
13:55
Speaker 3: it was my turn finally. And I clicked in a
13:57
Speaker 3: game called pitfall and, And back then it had like.
14:01
Speaker 2: Four main colors.
14:02
Speaker 3: And, um, I literally played that game every single time.
14:06
Speaker 2: If I missed a jewel, I'd turn it off and
14:08
Speaker 2: turn it back on.
14:09
Speaker 3: And I played it for almost five hours straight until
14:11
Speaker 3: I got every single point and won the game. And
14:14
Speaker 3: my grandmother quietly sat and watched me. And when I
14:17
Speaker 3: turned it off, cause I felt very like pleased with
14:19
Speaker 3: myself that I had like actually gotten the high score
14:22
Speaker 3: and all of the things, um, she, she brought me
14:26
Speaker 3: into her room. She said, I want to talk to
14:27
Speaker 3: you about addiction. I want to talk to you about
14:29
Speaker 3: what your parents have. And I want to talk to
14:31
Speaker 3: you about what I just witnessed. And it was that
14:33
Speaker 3: moment that I, and I've never played a video game since.
14:36
Speaker 3: I mean, occasionally now that I have older kids, they've
14:38
Speaker 3: asked me to step in.
14:39
Speaker 2: I'm terrible at it. But that was when.
14:42
Speaker 3: I was taught all, you know, at the age of
14:46
Speaker 3: like nine, what addiction was.
14:49
Speaker 2: And I took it very seriously.
14:51
Speaker 3: And I look at it very differently in our world today,
14:54
Speaker 3: you know, substance versus process addictions and, and really understand
14:59
Speaker 3: kind of the vulnerability that we all have, depending on
15:02
Speaker 3: our genetics and our background and our lifestyle.
15:06
Speaker 1: Substance versus process addiction. Yeah. What is that?
15:12
Speaker 3: So not all addiction is equal. So a substance addiction
15:16
Speaker 3: is something that we ingest. So alcohol, a drug, fentanyl,
15:20
Speaker 3: those kinds of things. A process addiction is like gambling, technology,
15:26
Speaker 3: you know, sex, like What are the things that operate
15:29
Speaker 3: in that dopamine reward system that isn't something that we
15:32
Speaker 3: ingest into our body, but it's actually the behavioral component
15:36
Speaker 3: that creates that process addiction, which are much more difficult
15:41
Speaker 3: to manage when we have a society dependent on them.
15:45
Speaker 1: So in terms of your book, Unplugged, Raising Kids in
15:50
Speaker 1: a Technology-Addicted World, when I read that, when I looked
15:55
Speaker 1: at that, I was like, oh my God, my kids...
15:57
Speaker 1: You know, I have young kids, and of course, or
16:00
Speaker 1: maybe not of course, but this definitely applies to them.
16:04
Speaker 1: What's going on?
16:07
Speaker 3: You know, I currently now advise the law firm, one
16:12
Speaker 3: of the lead law firms in the litigation against big tech.
16:15
Speaker 3: So I've spent the last four and a half years
16:18
Speaker 3: working with them through case by case of these families,
16:22
Speaker 3: which is devastating. You know, suicide, self-harm, eating disorders. hospitalizations,
16:29
Speaker 3: the trauma that comes in, and then to be able
16:31
Speaker 3: to also see the internal documents, which are now becoming
16:35
Speaker 3: public through these lawsuits, and the absolute intent with knowledge
16:41
Speaker 3: that the big tech CEOs did for profit over humanity
16:48
Speaker 3: is disgusting to me. And I think it's sociopathic in
16:51
Speaker 3: many ways. The fact that they continue to lie to
16:55
Speaker 3: the American people, that they continue to push this onto
16:57
Speaker 3: parents and say, you know, oh, we put the tools
17:00
Speaker 3: in there. You parents should be able to figure it out.
17:02
Speaker 3: When in fact, you know, over 65% of all of
17:06
Speaker 3: those parental tools are already broken, missing, or have been
17:09
Speaker 3: deleted out of their mechanisms. It is absolutely intolerable to me.
17:17
Speaker 3: And so that's what pushes me now. That's what Digital
17:20
Speaker 3: Citizen Academy was. It was like, how do I get
17:23
Speaker 3: parents' access and kids' access to be part of this,
17:27
Speaker 3: to be able to understand it's not their failing. This
17:31
Speaker 3: is a true component in your brain, in that neurological
17:35
Speaker 3: center that they're preying upon. And when you have someone
17:40
Speaker 3: who uses, particularly a child that uses over two and
17:44
Speaker 3: a half hours a day behind a screen for not
17:49
Speaker 3: a tool, but as a toy for play, you start
17:52
Speaker 3: to see structural damage in the brain. You start to
17:54
Speaker 3: see neurochemical damage in the brain and we're not being honest.
17:58
Speaker 3: So I just decided to dedicate my life to educating
18:01
Speaker 3: kids that this is what they're doing to you. You
18:04
Speaker 3: are the product. They are not giving you any gifts.
18:08
Speaker 3: And you have a voice in this because you're the
18:10
Speaker 3: largest technological cohort in history and you have a right
18:13
Speaker 3: to say no and to make it better.
18:15
Speaker 1: So.
18:16
Speaker 2: That's what I spend my days doing.
18:18
Speaker 1: When you talked about when you were a kid and
18:22
Speaker 1: your grandmother pulled you in and had that talk, I mean,
18:26
Speaker 1: you were young, really young. But somehow, obviously, you were
18:33
Speaker 1: wired different from the get-go. But what was it in
18:38
Speaker 1: that conversation that got you?
18:44
Speaker 3: You know, I think that her grace and her love and,
18:48
Speaker 3: you know, my grandmother was born in 1908. And so
18:51
Speaker 3: she would share her life evolution. She, you know, when
18:56
Speaker 3: I was getting old enough to vote, she sat me
18:58
Speaker 3: down and talked to me about the work that she
19:00
Speaker 3: did in the suffrage movement. The fact that we were
19:04
Speaker 3: so close in history to when we were just women
19:07
Speaker 3: themselves were given the right to vote. The fact that
19:10
Speaker 3: sacrifice needed to be made in a lot of these
19:12
Speaker 3: situations where you know, she lived during the prohibition where
19:17
Speaker 3: liquor was being bootlegged and she'd be invited out on
19:19
Speaker 3: a date thinking that she was going to go out
19:21
Speaker 3: with some man that she was really interested in. And
19:24
Speaker 3: in fact, she was just a cover so he could
19:25
Speaker 3: go like deliver booze, you know, across, you know, she'd
19:28
Speaker 3: be so disappointed. And so her life and the sacrifices
19:32
Speaker 3: and the triumphs that she had over tragedy was just
19:36
Speaker 3: inspiring to me. And I really, truly feel like I
19:41
Speaker 3: was blessed. And I never, ever for a minute I
19:45
Speaker 3: regret the traumas and the tragedies I've gone through because
19:48
Speaker 3: every single one of them has built the resilience. and
19:50
Speaker 3: given me the gift of insight. And, um, and that's
19:53
Speaker 3: how I, how I try to handle life.
19:56
Speaker 1: What do you, I mean, in short, what do you,
19:59
Speaker 1: what do you tell parents? How do you advise them
20:02
Speaker 1: to navigate these technology waters? And just as an aside,
20:07
Speaker 1: I think, um, Just today on the front page, I
20:11
Speaker 1: think Meta, what? Yes. Agreed to settle. It's like $ 47 billion.
20:18
Speaker 2: $ 17 billion. Mm-hmm.
20:23
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
20:23
Speaker 3: So what I would tell parents is don't believe the headlines.
20:28
Speaker 3: And I would tell them, follow those people, not just me,
20:32
Speaker 3: but others, you, other podcasts, people that are in this
20:36
Speaker 3: fight for the right reason.
20:38
Speaker 2: And listen to their words.
20:40
Speaker 3: Because when you follow me and the things that I
20:42
Speaker 3: post on LinkedIn, it is what is behind the curtains
20:45
Speaker 3: and what the true really the reality is. And it's
20:48
Speaker 3: not without faint of heart. I have turned off all
20:53
Speaker 3: locations on my phones. I have been targeted by Meta
20:57
Speaker 3: themselves in terms of being deposed. And there's a true
21:01
Speaker 3: risk going up against a trillion dollar industry. But when
21:05
Speaker 3: you see things in the headlines that say, meta to
21:08
Speaker 3: file or to settle 17 billion dollars to you and
21:11
Speaker 3: i it sounds like a massive win but meta brings
21:16
Speaker 3: in 205 billion dollars a year and they're going to
21:19
Speaker 3: pay that 17 billion over in arrears over time and
21:22
Speaker 3: they're going to make the same promises that they did
21:24
Speaker 3: oh you know you're right we probably shouldn't give notifications
21:28
Speaker 3: to your kids while they're in school but that doesn't
21:31
Speaker 3: mean they're not going to give notifications they said that
21:32
Speaker 3: they would silence those notifications What Meta and these big
21:36
Speaker 3: tech industries aren't telling you is that they can simply
21:39
Speaker 3: say from 7 a.m.
21:41
Speaker 2: To 3 p.m.
21:42
Speaker 3: We can put a geofence around your schools and we
21:44
Speaker 3: will block any type of interaction of our platforms of
21:48
Speaker 3: that child during that academic time because we're really invested
21:51
Speaker 3: in your children expanding and learning. But they're not going
21:55
Speaker 3: to tell you that. So you have to rely on
21:58
Speaker 3: the people who know what that $ 17 billion means. And
22:01
Speaker 3: I'm not going to take a pay off as hush
22:05
Speaker 3: money because they want us to pretend like that's a
22:07
Speaker 3: win because it's not enough.
22:09
Speaker 2: It's not nearly enough.
22:11
Speaker 1: In terms of more of a micro approach, what do
22:18
Speaker 1: parents need to hear working with their kids?
22:23
Speaker 3: Parents need to hear that they still have the upper
22:26
Speaker 3: hand and the ability to be that primary source of
22:29
Speaker 3: information for their kids. I think that it's really hard
22:32
Speaker 3: nowadays because the minute you hand them a device, you
22:36
Speaker 3: lose that authority and that connection and that authenticity to
22:40
Speaker 3: have that compassionate, authentic relationship with your child. I find
22:45
Speaker 3: a device handed to a child is more dangerous than
22:47
Speaker 3: a gun. You have over 5 billion people that can
22:51
Speaker 3: interact with your child. You have no control over it.
22:54
Speaker 3: The content that comes into that device, the access that
22:57
Speaker 3: they have into nefarious worlds And nefarious people having contact
23:02
Speaker 3: to your child that you can't oversee.
23:04
Speaker 2: It's impossible.
23:06
Speaker 3: But to not lose hope, I think that that's probably
23:10
Speaker 3: my best line of defense. I mean, I started doing
23:14
Speaker 3: this and I would have out of a school of,
23:16
Speaker 3: let's say, 3,000, 150 parents show up. Right now, if
23:20
Speaker 3: I show up and there's 3,000 kids, I might have
23:23
Speaker 3: nine parents show up. The helplessness that I see in
23:26
Speaker 3: parents is heartbreaking to me. And it's what has pushed
23:30
Speaker 3: me to develop different tools to, you know, I filed
23:35
Speaker 3: a patent. I've got a tool that we're going to
23:37
Speaker 3: gift out to every family that we can globally in
23:40
Speaker 3: the world that will give them back control over their child.
23:44
Speaker 2: And it's going to turn the industry on its head.
23:45
Speaker 3: And I will do it until my last breath. But
23:49
Speaker 3: don't give up and don't think that you can't win.
23:52
Speaker 3: You don't have to let big tech bully you. And
23:57
Speaker 3: you can say no.
23:58
Speaker 2: And those instances where in your gut, it doesn't feel right.
24:02
Speaker 1: As we kind of wind down here, you, you know,
24:06
Speaker 1: your story just exudes this strength and advocacy. How, when
24:16
Speaker 1: you think about it, what is your, what do you,
24:20
Speaker 1: what is your purpose now in the work you do? I, I,
24:25
Speaker 1: It's interesting, like people, whether purpose or passion, my purpose.
24:30
Speaker 3: Is you, the families, the kids, the people that actually
24:34
Speaker 3: authentically can go out and make a change. So be
24:38
Speaker 3: the power of one and go out there and change
24:41
Speaker 3: one person's life who can go change another person's life.
24:45
Speaker 3: It's what brings my soul together. Just hearing from a
24:50
Speaker 3: child that said to me, I remember you, Dr. Lisa,
24:53
Speaker 3: from second grade, and I just wanted you to know
24:56
Speaker 3: I'm the only one out of all my friends that
24:59
Speaker 3: never make a picture of myself online. And I get
25:02
Speaker 3: this big hug, and she's 20 and happy. And that's
25:07
Speaker 3: enough for me. So it's showing and caring and being
25:12
Speaker 3: able to authentically put that out into the world. I
25:15
Speaker 3: will do it until my last dying breath.
25:18
Speaker 1: Are you so passionate? about this because of what in
25:27
Speaker 1: your childhood?
25:29
Speaker 3: I think that trauma has the ability to break us
25:33
Speaker 3: or it has the ability to strengthen us. And I
25:35
Speaker 3: think that when you look at someone who has gone
25:39
Speaker 3: through trauma, and I think I shared before we started recording,
25:41
Speaker 3: my ACE score of adverse childhood events is a nine.
25:45
Speaker 3: The only thing that didn't happen to me is a
25:47
Speaker 3: parent going to prison. And those of you in the
25:50
Speaker 3: audience that understand that know that that's a pretty significant number.
25:54
Speaker 3: I don't want, if I can help it, a child
25:57
Speaker 3: to have to go through trauma in order to find
26:00
Speaker 3: their strength. I want them to find their strength through
26:04
Speaker 3: ways that don't bring them to the brink of losing
26:08
Speaker 3: everything in their life or wanting to lose everything in
26:11
Speaker 3: their life. And so if I can do that for
26:12
Speaker 3: just one after one after one, that's what fuels me.
26:19
Speaker 1: All right, Lisa, you are pretty incredible. My God, you
26:24
Speaker 1: could just feel, seriously, you feel the, not just the strength,
26:29
Speaker 1: but the, what, the fight, the fight you have. Thank you.
26:36
Speaker 1: Was it always like this for you?
26:39
Speaker 3: You know, I think so. My dad, I just recently
26:42
Speaker 3: lost last year, was 90. And he said to me,
26:45
Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know where you got it. But
26:46
Speaker 3: if you look back and watch the little videos of
26:49
Speaker 3: me as a kid, you know, there's grown men like
26:51
Speaker 3: trying to like, you know, line their hook with bait.
26:54
Speaker 2: And I walk over and act like I can fix
26:55
Speaker 2: it and do it for them.
26:57
Speaker 3: He's just like, you've just always been that kid that just,
27:01
Speaker 3: you know, believed that she could do. And I'm, I'm just,
27:04
Speaker 3: I'm still that little girl in heart at heart. And
27:06
Speaker 3: I see her and I fight for her.
27:09
Speaker 1: All right, Lisa, how do people get in touch with you?
27:12
Speaker 1: How do people learn about your books? What's the best way?
27:16
Speaker 3: So the best way probably go to asklisa.com. That'll forward
27:20
Speaker 3: them to my site. Like I said, if you want
27:23
Speaker 3: in your details under your podcast, I'll give you a
27:27
Speaker 3: QR code or a link so that your audience can
27:30
Speaker 3: download the two books that I have.
27:32
Speaker 2: I write for catharsis.
27:34
Speaker 3: And if I can share and give other parents that
27:37
Speaker 3: are dealing with the technology and the issues, And they
27:39
Speaker 3: can follow me along on that and sign up for
27:41
Speaker 3: updates there.
27:43
Speaker 1: Okay. We'll have those links linked up here at the
27:47
Speaker 1: show notes page at the traumatherapistpodcast.com. Lisa, appreciate it. Appreciate you.
27:53
Speaker 1: So freaking inspiring. My God. Thank you. Seriously, thank you
27:57
Speaker 1: for being here and sharing your story. Thank you.
28:01
Speaker 2: All right.
28:02
Speaker 1: We'll be in touch. Okay.