Latest / You Call That Radio? / 'Young At Heart' w/ Ken McCluskey (The Bluebells)

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'Young At Heart' w/ Ken McCluskey (The Bluebells) · You Call That Radio?

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to. You call that radio's audio podcast season six, episode 23. We're chatting to a legend today. Ken McCluskey of the Blue Bells, who sold over a million records,
• 0:31
  Speaker B: Can see
• 0:33
  Speaker A: in the background you can hear a new single by myself called Death of A Daydream under the name Jacko Trades. And Sev Car is out now in all platforms as a music video on YouTube or stream it, whatever, or go to band camp or whatever. Just thought I'd give that a little shout out before we start the show. Also, I want to thank all our patrons@patreon.com you call that radio. You are the reason the show continues and also the reason that there is no adverts in this show. Let's begin. It's an absolute honor to welcome onto Today's show Ken McCluskey of the Bluebells. Thank you.
• 1:31
  Speaker C: We're good. I can hear you. Good.
• 1:35
  Speaker A: Last time I met you, we were at the Glasgow Barrel in Ballroom.
• 1:40
  Speaker C: Well, that's correct. That was a brilliant night. That was for Soapy Tribute to Soapy Fest.
• 1:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And you were at the. The Crescendo, the big. The big encore finale. We call them Mustard doing Young at Heart. Do you still get a buzz playing someone like the Bars?
• 2:00
  Speaker C: Hi. I mean, I think the Bars is. Is now the. The best gig in Glasgow in it. You know, it's got the history, it's got the. The vibe, but, you know, any music and it's. I've never seen a bad gig at the bars, to tell you the truth. Honestly, I've seen quite a few different things. It's just the atmosphere when you walk in the door, you know, a nice welcome, as long as you're not hiding a sword or anything like that or, you know, you're not going to get
• 2:26
  Speaker A: through the Metal Detective.
• 2:28
  Speaker C: But no, it's really right. And because I've been there a few times now and playing, performing there as well, you get to know all the staff and all that, so it's really cool.
• 2:37
  Speaker A: They've got a high staff retention. It seems like that, you know, it's
• 2:40
  Speaker C: the same people for years. Yeah, yeah. Which is always a good sign, I always think, if you, you know, if somebody can keep the staff, it's always a good sign of a good working environment. You know, I was like that. Yeah, absolutely. I know, it was great. But that was a particularly good night put together with yourself, John Mc Mustard and the team, and it was really brilliant. And Gavin Mitchell was helping out and it was lovely. It was just wonderful. And the audience were really. I just thought the audience were very involved. Yeah, they bought into it because obviously the history, the Mustards and all the other bands, you know, it was really cracking. So I was kind of tagged on either. You know what I mean? I was gonna. I was asked along by John and so I've done a few things with John before. I'd worked at the college, Glasgow Kelvin College, which used to be stole. And we put one of their eps on a. The Mustard's eps on a. EP sort of thing. So I got to know him then. So a couple of times I worked with John on and off, so that was really nice to be asked. I was privileged to be asked to do that. So it was great. I was well chuffed and I just thought the audience was brilliant.
• 3:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think the. It was a beautiful celebration of Soapy and I think he just said that he had a very positive attitude towards live music and I think everybody just picked up on that. And yeah, it was a. It was a celebratory atmosphere, which is. Is. Yeah. Which is the biggest mark of respect you can have to someone. So it was amazing. So when it. When. When you've got that, like. So when you're asked to do it. Young at heart, which I was just thinking about earlier on, because obviously that. That song Shoes, I think you're maybe the. We've seen big names on the show before, but I don't think anybody's had a song as big as that. I mean, that song's. It's omnipresent. It's at weddings, karaoke, supermarkets. How do you feel?
• 4:35
  Speaker C: Funerals, believe it or not, funerals as well.
• 4:40
  Speaker A: How does that make you feel? Is it. Is it. Is it. Is it surreal or how. How is it. Was it. Have you used it?
• 4:46
  Speaker C: I think it'd be pretentious if I said, oh, I don't like it, all that, you know, I mean, obviously it's. It's great. It's really good. It's nice to hear it, the radio, because you get a few bob if it's on BBC Radio 1 or whatever. Well, it's never going to be BBC Radio 1 now, you know, being Radio 2 or occasionally it gets through Scotland. But I'll tell you a good one, actually, sometimes when it's annoying. Right, so we've got a new album, which we'll talk about obviously later. That's why we're here, really. But with a new album in April. No, sorry, May 20th, 24th, and the girl from Radio Scotland, I don't know it's one of the new presenters, right. And it was the morning she says, oh, get new stuff from the Blue Bells coming up here. They've got a new album out, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We played young
• 5:38
  Speaker B: album.
• 5:39
  Speaker C: Here's your heart, you know, instead of from the. You
• 5:45
  Speaker A: you want to get. Yeah. Because you're wanting your new songs to get the recognition.
• 5:49
  Speaker C: That's just an algorithm. So that's somebody looking at an algorithm somewhere. Rajar, your radio land somewhere going, oh, that's their biggest record. So we'll just play that instead of one of their new records, which is really, really annoying. But if I hear the song and somebody's enjoying it or somebody asked me to sing it at a party or something, it's not a problem, you know, it's not a problem. You know, somebody. Somebody actually do a karaoke. Did somebody else not do that? You know, I mean, because see, if you do. I've done it at karaoke. Right. People think you're a dick because you're singing your own song at karaoke, you know, and it's number one and all that. And it's the ubiquitous. It's everywhere that try to show off. He's number one. So you tend not.
• 6:35
  Speaker A: You can't win. You can't win it.
• 6:37
  Speaker C: Can't win.
• 6:39
  Speaker A: Basically you're going to. You're going to look like you're. You're going to look bad if you don't do the song for everybody I know song, you're going to look bad as well.
• 6:47
  Speaker C: I'm just going to say before we go any further, I look as if I'm over a whitey in this camera here. Is that I'm all great. I've actually get quite a good time. You've got a good time. Why am I so white?
• 6:58
  Speaker A: It's just the lighting. I fig it take me. Well, we figured out the lighting every time I move. Every time I move fish. It takes me a few months, but I've got the lighting.
• 7:12
  Speaker C: My big red heat, Santa Claus having a white ear. Something like that.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: So. So the younger heart. I think. I think actually I would be correct saying it was. It's my. It's my mom's favorite song. I remember her playing it back in the day, but I was old enough to remember the. Not the first time round but the 1994 thing. I was by that point. I was like a. Probably a teenager or something. I can't remember exactly. But yeah, that was a. I remember like coming around again. It was. There was an advert or something for Volkswagen Golf. And that just shows you how. How big adverts were back then that it could just be so it could change everything. But I quite like the idea of that you had to hastily reassemble the band. Is that correct? Because it was a kind of. Tell us about that.
• 8:00
  Speaker C: So we were working as my brother and I worked the McCloskey brothers. There was more acoustic folk sort of stuff. We had a band, you know, different sometimes with a band, somebody. Sometimes we just do two of us kind of harmony based acoustic music. And we did four albums as McCloskey Brothers. So that's what we're doing for 20 years or whatever. And around about 1993, which was nine years after the actual release in 1984. 1984, it got to number eight the charge then. Then usually it got to number one. But when it was climbing up the charts when it was maybe I could come in at number number 10 or something the first week. And it was all because of the advert because we weren't abandoned at any point. It was played the radio all the time and it was kind of me June kind of summertime. So it's a good summer time, feel good sort of driving song in it. But country western sort of thrown in there. One upbeat So a record company phoned us up but we hadn't been signed to the record company for don't know, eight years or something, six years maybe, something like that. So the guys, we never got dropped. You know how bands get dropped by the record company. We never ever get dropped. They always kind of help held on to us but they just stopped paying us wages. So we just. They're a bonk basically. So they give you an advance and then you have to pay that advance back. And then you give you another advice, you have to pay that advance back. Well, they got to the stage where we weren't paying the advance back. So once if you don't pay the third advance back, they don't have to pay but they can still hold on to you sort of thing. So we just did as many things as we could do to. For them to drop us, but they never dropped us. But we got a bit of legal advice from musicians union and he just says, you know what? See, if you just go out record your own album, they would get monkeys. They wouldn't even know who the McLusky brothers are. Just what happens in major record labels is the staff. You're talking about the Baran staff. It's the Same staff for 20, 30 years. Record companies the staff turnovers like 100% in two years. Yeah, you know, I mean they don't have the same AR people for five years. It doesn't happen. He's next, you know, so they don't know who you are. Anyway, so we just started working as a McCluskey brothers. A few warning letters from for putting out records on our own. We label with a label called Kingfisher Records. So we were busy doing that and we were a bit of a, I don't know, a couple of soul traders partnership sort of thing and it was great and we didn't make loads of money or whatever, but it was really nice, you know, that way if you make records it means you can tour and you'll get a better radio play and you'll get, you know, all that and you get some T shirts, make them and sell. Sometimes you sell more T shirts, you sell records, you know that. Can I. But it's the difference between.
• 10:45
  Speaker A: Jason was saying that the musicians were not musicians were glorified T shirt sellers. That's it.
• 10:52
  Speaker C: We should all have a stall at the bars, you know what I mean? As a side, you know, side hustle. So. But that, you know what, that was really good. It was total freedom. You could do whatever you want. You didn't have an A R person telling you what to do. So I really love those McClusket Brothers records for that, you know, no producers, just produce them ourselves. So if you get it wrong or if you can I bugger it up, it's your fault really. But nobody blame you know what I mean? So I really like doing that. I love doing that. Anyway, on our maybe about our third mclusky, we got a phone call from the record company. Hi, Kenny, it's great. You're going to be number one, mate. And I'm like, who says, oh, Roger, hello Roger, how are you mate? You know all that and I mean that's great. And he said, look, I think you probably. We've got the midweek. You got the midweek and midweek chart and they know what number you're going to be through the sales and all the shops function or HMV or whatever, all the record shows chart return shops. So they said, you're going to be number one next week. What do you think about coming, doing and doing Top of the Box? And I says, well, we're not really a band. We're working as McCloskey Brothers and we're on tour with Capper Kelly, which we were. We were the sport band for Capper Kelly. On that sort of tour. And that night of Top of the Pops, we were in Aberdeen and the guy went, oh, no, you've got to do it, you got to do it, you got to do it. And I went, I'd quite fancy doing it. So I love doing Top of the Pops. It's easy peasy and you can show off and you know, as a musician, like.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: Well, I do still. It was Maimon at that time.
• 12:29
  Speaker C: No, I always sang Life Apart from twice. I think I've done Top of the pops 13 times over the years. Wow. Only twice Amount. Yeah, the rest of the things I sang.
• 12:38
  Speaker A: So it's. Everybody's live, the.
• 12:40
  Speaker C: The backing track. So what you do is you. The re. As far as the musicians union is concerned, you've got to re record the backing track. Right. And you can choose to mine or you can choose to sing live. I choose to sing Life. So what we had was a tape of Young at Heart with no vocal on it. It's got the backing vocals on it.
• 13:01
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Speaker C: It's not a lead vocal on it. So how do you sing over the karaoke? Sang over the.
• 13:08
  Speaker A: A karaoke that people are glad that you're doing.
• 13:11
  Speaker C: Yes. And they don't. They don't give you for it.
• 13:15
  Speaker B: So.
• 13:16
  Speaker C: Yeah. So the deal was that we're in Internet. No, Aberdeen. Yes, Aberdeen. With Capper Kelly. And I said, well, we've got to do this gig. We can't break our contract with Capper Kelly. I was talking about Shade, actually. I could have got away with. I could have got away with it easy. But I said, you. And I thought the owners won. They ordered some money because they could have screwed us a wee bit, like. Like all these record companies do. So I said, well, you need to give David I two grand each in cash when we arrive because we haven't got any money and you need to put us up. My good to tell you. Flyers down there and it gets a carry out or get us a free bar and all that. Which they did. They did. Then all the other guys in the band are going to come. You're getting two grand enough for paper bags. I says, well, the. So we did it for five weeks in a row or four weeks in a row. That's what the deal was. So it was great. So that we went from no. Nobody in the bank to having some money in the bank and then with the money from Top of the Pops we made another album. So it was simple. So it was great. It was a good way of getting your own back, sort of Thing. So the corporate machine, you know, it's all like, hey, man. So they don't care how much they care. They pay for corporate hospitality or hotel rooms or flights or whatever because it's all taxed, returnable for them. But the cash was an important one, you know, I was like, no, I would pay to the top of the pop sheet at the time. You. 120 quid, that's how you get performance. So imagine in London, 100 quid. I mean, it's going to last you about half an hour. So we got good cash and we did it I four times. It was number one for four weeks and once they used the video. So we did go down that week, but we did it four or five days. Now a funny thing about that was if you look at some YouTube versions of that 1993, and there was a bit. See the backing track, that's what we're talking about. The backing track wasn't edited. So the musicians union are like that. All right? You have to go and re record your back track. But nobody re records your back track. You swap the tapes, see a tape with the backing track you've already made. So every time you make a record, and those days anyway, you always had one without the vocal, right, like. So you do a mixer.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: Yes, that instrumental version.
• 15:38
  Speaker C: Ah, you do an instrumental version. Right.
• 15:40
  Speaker A: And that was purely just in case something like Top of the Pops came knocking at the door.
• 15:45
  Speaker C: Yeah. And they're there, you can see them, they just swap the tapes. But you just go, record company executive or whatever swaps the tapes. But then they go, there's a tape maybe just made that in three hours. Should be three hours to record it. There's no way you're going to re record that in three hours. You know what I mean? So they just do the big eye swapped over. It was a lot of bollocks really, but it was one of those things that was necessary for the musicians union at the time. So. But what they forgot was this was an unedited version of your art. So there was four bars, eight bars actually, that went. Four version, right. With nothing. Nothing happened. So it was like, oh, no, you don't want to sing the chorus again over. That'd be three. That be too much. Right. So we had to make up a different hang. There was a hole with just this fiddle going on or not. So we had to make up a kind of funny hang each week. So the first one was number one was techno, Techno, techno, techno. No, no, no, no, you're no limit. So we were all right, I'm doing that techno techno techno. So I said to the sound guy, I'm going to do techno techno. Can you get me that vocal sound of technique? And he loved it. The guy's like, ah, brilliant. Yes, techno. We did techno techno. The next week we did. What was the other one we did? Oh, Shabba Shabba Ranks. Remember Shabbat. Shabbat Shabbat. So I got the guy put a kind of Reggie delay on it. That was hilarious. That was brilliant. And then the last week we knew we're. We were. We were good down the church, you know, by the midweek. So we go white top parts. I always want to do that like bye bye. So we white top pass the tail st in the middle. But when there's no business like show business by. And that was. That was the end of our career basically. You know, that was. That was so. It was great fun and it was. Plus you played with your mates, you know, we, we. The Blue Bell's going to meet up band with a bunch of pals. So it wasn't like we were full of mercenaries or whatever, you know, it was just like guys that were amazed. So we had such a laugh. It was great.
• 17:58
  Speaker A: Did that. Was that enough? Was the success of that enough to get you your, your advanced paid
• 18:05
  Speaker C: well, that paid. They said we owed them 250000 pound. That sold half a million records.
• 18:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. I was going to ask. You said 800,000 according to Google.
• 18:15
  Speaker C: Well, it's probably 100,000
• 18:20
  Speaker A: according to Google.
• 18:21
  Speaker C: But we've got a. We've got a desk which says I've got. This is half a million, half a million copies. So. But since then it's probably sold, you
• 18:30
  Speaker A: know, it's half a million platinum. What's that again?
• 18:32
  Speaker C: Sorry, Half a million is gold at the time. So it's in my mom's house.
• 18:39
  Speaker A: They've changed that though. No, because nobody's selling that, that amount of records.
• 18:42
  Speaker C: Oh, nobody sells that amount of records. They're not. I think you got a chocolate disc for selling 2000. Yeah, tonic waiver chocolate disc or something.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: Was the. Is it true or false that the Pope said the song promoted divorce?
• 19:01
  Speaker C: Apparently I never saw this. This is a Bobby Blue Bell when his mom saw it in some paper, Catholic observer or something, that the Pope wasn't happy with the. The fact that it was celebrating divorce. Because if he's. Remember the video, if you're a young person you can maybe look at the video on YouTube. It's there and it's A woman coming down steps. It looks like a church, but it's actually a. It's actually a town hall sort of thing. She come down the steps and she's got a white top hat on and a veil and a white suit on. Trouser suit. And she's like.
• 19:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker C: And she's celebrating her divorce, right? So she gets in the Volkswagen. And the Volkswagen, it says just divorce at the back. All the cans and all that lipstick in the back, just divorce, right? So, see, the amount of people, women of a certain age, who went, I love that song because it reminds me of my divorce. Because they were happy. They were really happy not to be with a person, you know, that they didn't God with. And I'm sure it's the same as. As men as. Well, if, you know, there's not all bad men or bad women. I think it's a mixture of both. But it was generally women who would say to me, I love Mitchell, and it was women not that older than me, you know, the same age as my sisters and all that, older. But they would probably be 17 and they would be like, that reminds me of a divorce, thank God, you know, because it's freedom. It was a song with freedom. You know, if you're in a bad marriage, be it male or female or two females or two males or whatever, and it's not happening, you're lying. I'm out here, you know. So it's a release, isn't it?
• 20:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And the Pope, obviously.
• 20:45
  Speaker C: Obviously, obviously.
• 20:47
  Speaker A: Opinion on divorce.
• 20:48
  Speaker C: Well, the Pope wants you to be married forever, don't he? Yeah.
• 20:51
  Speaker A: Caught in controversy with the Pope. There was the. So I listened to the. I listened to the album properly today, and the Sunshine, which I would advise everybody to do. It's called this is the Blue Bells and so on all the platforms. But support it. I get it from last night from Glasgow's website. Is that the best place to get it?
• 21:12
  Speaker C: Yeah, Last night from Glasgow's website. I'm thinking you get a Virgin HMV and all that now as well. But you probably get it if you're. If you're on your record shop or whatever, you just go to last night from glasgow.org I think it is. And there's a shop there and you could buy it. It's all different colors. If. I know. If you want a CD, I think it's 12 quid or something like that. I think of vinyls, it's a double vinyl, so there's two albums. You probably wouldn't see that with no
• 21:38
  Speaker A: Because I. I just. I just. Well, you sent me the. The Dropbox link and I forgot to download it before I left. But then I just. I found it on. I found it on an unnamed streaming platform. So I listened to it. I still listened to. That didn't be the water. Yeah, it was. It was. It was. It was. It was really good. I could hear. I mean, I hate. I always hate lazy comparisons, but I'm just trying to give people a flavor. I could hear a wee bit of dough in there. Are we better Lorid Also, I don't know if it's because the Sunshine was cut. Was just making me happy, but it was. I don't know if the. Enjoy the melodic Sunshine by Cosmic Rough Riders and I know that you used to meet before them. Yeah, I was getting those kind of vibes and I think, you know.
• 22:15
  Speaker C: Well, we were all. We were all influenced by the same stuff, you know, and all those Teenage fan club. All that. We were all into the Birds and Big Star and all that. You know, we're probably a bit older. I don't think I'm older than Danny from the Cosby Ruffle.
• 22:29
  Speaker A: We had Danny in the show a couple years ago.
• 22:31
  Speaker C: He's maybe a year older than me or something. But the other guys are a bit younger. But we were all into. We were all punk rockers, basically. Once the punk rock thing sort of did its thing, it became a bit crap and it became about Sham 69. Hurry up, Harry, we're going down the pub. And all that. Became a bit shy. And guys, we dug something about string and all that begging and all that. It wasn't really cool. So we decided to listen more music which was maybe our brothers and sisters music which was kind of late 60s. So we're kind to the 60s, really. I'm 62 born. So the be and stones and the. The Birds and all that was Cosby s nice young. All that sort of stuff. Harmony music was a real big influence on us.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, there's a. Yeah, there's. It's got that. It's got that classic sound. But there's also, you know, you've got the. We'll actually maybe play the next song, your new single in a little bit. But we've got. Before we go to that no Pass around as well, which came out recently. I thought a couple. Was that a few months ago now I remember it. You sharing it?
• 23:37
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 23:39
  Speaker A: How important is it for.
• 23:45
  Speaker C: Yeah, no Pass Around. See the Blue Bells. We always had this thing because we were from a punk rock background in A kind of folky background me and David were from. Our D was mom and dad weren't 40s and then our sister Reggie and all that. We always like kind of rebel music and I think reggae music, survival music. I know folk music, survival music and a way of. You couldn't really get away with that in the A side. So you have Young Heartbeat of the Patriot Gam, the B side. Or you'd have, you know, Forever More, the Ballad of Jo Helen, the B side. You know what I mean? So we always tried to leave a political message, even though we're signed to a very commercial company. Because the guys that are in the commercial, I mean the guy who was Armand was Jamaican. He would. You. He was Trinidadian actually. So he would know a rebel song if it turned out suit. You know what I mean? Yeah. So rebel. Rebel as in not totally anti establishment, but let. Make people think. Yeah, maybe make people think and make a political stance on things. And no pass around was. It was an observation. I wrote it with. I wrote that one with Campbell. Campbell Wounds. He was an Aztec Camera before. So I like an idea of lyrics and a rough idea the music. And I got together with Campbell when we did that. So this song, this album is all collaborations between the different members of the band. So it's not one person writes all the songs.
• 25:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, just. Just because I noticed that was on the. The press release as well. So what did it. What. What was it the process before and what's the process now and how the process before.
• 25:27
  Speaker C: When we started off, it was Bobby's band. Bobby's the oldest guy. He's. He was a bit old on us. So it was Bobby Bluebell's band basically. And then David. I were in a punk band called Rodeo and he saw us and he was like, could you be in my band or all that? So it was kind of his band at first. Then I started writing a wee bit and then David started writing a wee bit. But the first album I would say is about 60% Bobby, just solo writing and the rest was between me and David. And I wrote. I'm following with Bobby as well. So that was a collaboration, but they were mostly written individually. The second album, which was 35 year later or 40 later, whatever. Bluebird, 21st century was written during COVID So I wrote four songs, Bobby wrote four songs, David wrote four songs. So that's 12 songs together. And this one, I was thinking, look, we've had the same band for 10 years. Cal is from Aztec Camera. Douglas McIntyre, Port Sulfur. He runs Creep And Bent records loads of different bands. Mick Slaven, who's been in Delitri, he's been in Deacon Blue for a while and he's with Bundle Leopards. So they're all writers as well. So I was thinking as well as be David Robert. So I thought, look, guys, there's a way of repaying everybody here instead of with money all the time, you know what I mean? Like, if. If they feel part of the band, then we've got a stronger unit, you know. And the best way of making people part of the band is giving them writing credits for Jew, which are due for adding bits because we're always adding me bits anyway. You know, they might not add up to the structure or the. The fundamental songwriting, but there might be a guitar solo. You're like, that's. That adds so much or an idea for a keyboard part or something. So I thought instead of just ignoring that, face it and say, look guys, we're going to do this album this way. It's a collaborative album then. That's why it's called this is the Blue Bells, because it's a proper band. There's six of us, you know, and it gives everybody credits.
• 27:32
  Speaker A: It was time to introduce you to the band.
• 27:34
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: So how. So how.
• 27:39
  Speaker C: Sorry, let's go back to no Pass Around. Right, so the no Pass around was written with me, Campbell, and it was taken down by the Clyde one day and I saw the Passionara statue, you know, down at Bomber Jamaica street and it reminded me. And I was just thinking about the rise of the right wing and bollocks like Farage and all that gain and momentum and people moaning and it's happening just now in Castle Milk and Postal park, everywhere, you know, people, I'll get the refugees out. They're all this and that. They're not all this. And there's one or two bad boys. I'm sure there is. Like there's one or two bad boys in every. Every people of any background. And of course it has to be addressed. But you don't go out the streets that burning people's houses like do Northern Ireland, you know what I mean? That's not the way. Vigilante is not the answer. You know what I mean? So it's basically a rally against Donald Trump and Donald Trump with these. Everything's a false flag evidence, false news, everything's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I think I'm just going to invade Venezuela, I think, because guess what, the people of Joy, blah blah blah.
• 28:47
  Speaker B: The.
• 28:48
  Speaker C: You know, and that Filters through to society. So society starts thinking, oh, we'll just take over that guy's house and burn it and send the means away down the road, you know, because they're of a different color of a different background and we don't understand them, you know, culturally or, you know, or their ethnicity or the story or whatever. Now I'm not saying everybody's an immigrant is good or whatever, neither is society. But to paint everybody the same color. Haha, didn't mean that. But to paint everybody with the same brush, guitar, every the same brush is not happening. It's no future. There's no future. And except killing each other, it's dog eats dog then. So it's just addressing that.
• 29:31
  Speaker A: And there's been a calculated decline and we've witnessed where, when I use the destruction of the NHS and the benefit system.
• 29:39
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: And the steady measures and that has left it wide open for the. The far right to.
• 29:47
  Speaker C: That's correct.
• 29:50
  Speaker A: The amount of, the amount of absolutely ludicrous stories about. I've seen one another. I've seen one today about getting free tests, people getting free Teslas after they come off the boat and stuff like that. And what was it they say? That a lie will travel around the world twice before the truth gets his shoes on or something like that.
• 30:10
  Speaker C: Well, that's right. And you get a bunch of ages sitting there, board out the skull, going, oh, I've got something shout about, you know, I mean they haven't done their, they haven't done their homework. It's just loud mouse. And unfortunately loud mouse got on the telly, you know what I mean? And, and also influences. The sad thing is, I see is these loud mouse bringing their kids up like that. You mean bringing us Ks up to heat. That's not what it's about. The world is for everybody. The world's favorite. Unfortunately, we've bombed a lot of people, been a lot of unfortunate wars that are just stupid. There's a lot of people displaced. I'm not blaming us forever in America's lot to it. I'm talking about the west and capitalism against countries that, you know, have just been overtaken, smashed apart Syria, you know, you know, Afghanistan, you know, what's Afghanistan left with? You know, I mean, after 10 years of Russian occupation, American occupation, then they leave them to Jesus God, you know, they bombed them any like Stone Age, you know.
• 31:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:26
  Speaker C: And of course people are going to try and leave that, aren't you? To better their children's chances in life.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, they just, they just let they Just. They just. They just ran away and let the Taliban in charge after all that.
• 31:38
  Speaker C: Of course. Of course. So it's back to. It's back to the Sl. Yeah, back.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: Back to. Back to where it was. So I've got. I've got no pass around just now. I'm going to play that just now since we're talking about it and then we'll go into the. The new single after that is. Will I have permission to play this? Will I get in trouble?
• 31:56
  Speaker C: Just say send it to me.
• 31:58
  Speaker A: Ken said it's okay.
• 31:59
  Speaker C: Just say. I said it was all right. I'll give you. Oh, you can take it.
• 32:03
  Speaker A: Take it.
• 32:03
  Speaker C: Right.
• 32:04
  Speaker A: I will play it. We'll play it. We've got it here. So. Yes, let's. Let's listen to that then. This is a no pass around and it's on the new album. This is the Blue Bells.
• 32:45
  Speaker B: Donald Blaster's infernal trumpet. To the right to get strength and comfort Adopt clarity and cold Disaffected charmers Resistant rers Self righteous table hey, what about the young folk watching their destruction? What do they think of it all? Looking to the future not getting any answers Just waiting for the call no pass around Our time will come no pass around no pass around Our time will come no pass around Reinforcing borders Building walls and towers Is this the answer to it? Taking war is commerce all part of the land grab Throwing lots for the SP so come all ye woken the dreams that be not spoken it's time to realize we got to do together in this inclement weather Symbol for the rise no, no pass around Our time will come no pass around no pass around Our time will come no pass around. Hey, what about the young folk watching the destruction? What do they think of it all? Looking to the future not getting any answers Just waiting for the call no pass around Our time will come no pass no pass around Our time will come no pass around no pass around Our time will come no pass around no pass around Our time gone no passer no pass around Our time will come no pass around.
• 36:25
  Speaker A: Amazing stuff. Oh well, I'm still playing in the background.
• 36:29
  Speaker C: Can I just say one thing? I can dedicate that to Mr. Willie Melee, a friend of mine who's going through a bit of a hard time. He's got cancer. Bad. That's his dad. And the. In the video that's an old man at the end like that. And you see his dad's actually in that film. So while he. Wally's a professor at Glasgow University. Retired now and he works in the kind of English. English department. And his diarrhea is in the Spanish Civil War. So that footage is from the Spanish Civil War and he made that available for me to put that together with one of his mates and to fit in with the. Fit in with the sentiment of the song. So Willie's dad's there and you'll see him as one of the guys taking the porridge or whatever is the grill or whatever. And then we kind of morphed him into what he is as he was standing beside the parish NARA statue at the end. So it was really cool.
• 37:35
  Speaker A: Amazing. Great song. And Huggies. More who I know hey says hi Mark and Ken. I'm enjoying the stream. I've seen the Blue Bells a few times. First times was Heathery Bar.
• 37:48
  Speaker C: Oh, you're. You're a superstar. Superstar was one of the first. Probably. Probably the first time we ever toured in School Bells, the Heathery Bowers and Wisher. So me and Dave are Wishy, as you say. We. We're posh, we're from both. So we say Wisher and that was a cracking place. They used to have cracking bands in there. Actually that's not a pub anymore. I don't know what. It's crossing a football park, remember? Yeah, that was a cracking gig. And I'll tell you what, there was a lot of people at that gig who were on to be bands from the Bell Hill scene. Later on we 16 year old boys, 17 year old boys
• 38:30
  Speaker A: and we got Epimu who's saying nice to hear and see you all. Seems like the loud mouse in Glasgow City. City chambers like to celebrate the merchant trading tobacco in a city. We've got Liam Brown. Hello, Liam. And. And Higgs Moss says it wasn't yesterday.
• 38:52
  Speaker C: I know I. I hadn't started dying my hair gray then. A nice brown hair then.
• 39:01
  Speaker A: Why is we no good gray? I don't actually know. It's. No, it's not. I know that I've not got the Just for Men just yet, but I'm gonna do it. I'm due. Yeah. I don't mind. I've got. I've becoming a silver fox if. So be it. Anyone going Dune? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think I'm. I'm trying. I'm trying to finish an album and write a book. So I think I'm just going to stay rural. I'm in a. I'm in a rural. I'm in the ale of Inverkis, the fictional village of inverkithe. So I'm just. I think I'm just gonna. Hopefully the weather stays like this because.
• 39:35
  Speaker B: Yeah,
• 39:38
  Speaker C: it's a beautiful setting that. I played it once, maybe about three, four years ago or something like that. Yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful set. You must have played it a couple of times.
• 39:47
  Speaker A: I did. I did replay then and I ran. I ran a small stage there as well with the sort of. Sort of. The more kind of grassroots stage and. Yeah. But yeah, say the. The Karasa State. I don't think I'll make it. I was. I've been in two minds, but I think I'm just gonna leave. I'm just. I went Eden Festival this year and had a great time, but I think it was. We did. We did four. We've pretty much been doing between 10 and 14 festivals a summer for the last 10 years or something, so. Or longer. So it's just been what? Perfectly take lockdown the equation, obviously, but. But yeah, so it's. It. It was. It's nice to have a little summer off. A summer of free will. It's good to get back, but user busy. So it's probably a good. A good segment to mention the gigs coming up. Thanks, Stuart, for that. It is festival season and you've got some. You've got some good ones coming up. Why? Tell us a bit where you're going to be.
• 40:41
  Speaker C: Yes, just before we go into that, see the. Doing the rabbit hole. The guy. I think it's the guy that runs it now or whatever, he was on saying they've got a spa. I was quite intrigued what the spa will be doing. The river and all that will be like, you know, the Turkish baths and all that. I don't know, hot coals and all that. I'm not sure.
• 41:00
  Speaker A: Anyway, it looks very fancy. It looks like very fanc. Say, glamping from the picture that I saw. So I think clamping you can get. You can get because you can. It. It looks like a Look more like a. I think it's a pod or something. It look. It looked quite. It looked fancy. And I think there's saa. The spa and I think there may be like a whole wellness side for. For yoga.
• 41:20
  Speaker C: You know, when you start getting older and all that. Like ornithology and birds and trees and all that, you know, like I go fishing and all that. But see the trees on that site, they're unbelievable. Cypress trees and all that, you know, I mean, they're absolutely beautiful. Anyway, I digress. First gig, we're Doing just starting to rehearse now the next couple of nights and then next week is the 1st of August it's Creole Festival. Creole in the East UK Fife. So it's nice to Anstruther.
• 41:51
  Speaker A: It's beautiful. I've been there before. I've been there before and it was. I went there for a weekend. Absolutely stunning.
• 41:58
  Speaker C: That's lovely. Right, so that's Creole, the first one. The second gig we're doing is another festival and it's party, the Palace. It's Lunatico. And again that's beautiful.
• 42:09
  Speaker A: In the go.
• 42:10
  Speaker C: In the go. That's a beautiful.
• 42:11
  Speaker A: That's what the locals say.
• 42:13
  Speaker C: The Go. Yeah, yeah, in the go. And that's on the 9th. So it's a two day festival since the 8th and we're putting the 9th through Sunday.
• 42:23
  Speaker A: Who else is playing? Have you look at some big names,
• 42:25
  Speaker C: Coral, Scary, Four Basic Rulers. I don't know, I think there's a few from the Jam and all that kind of stuff or that could I.
• 42:36
  Speaker A: But there's a few a couple years
• 42:38
  Speaker C: ago from the German second bill. So I think there's something for everybody. Something for everybody, Something for everybody. So it's quite eclectic mix but it suits the. The audience. The audience is quite mixed. The grannies, the Moors, the Daz and the Waynes, you know, young teams out
• 43:00
  Speaker A: there, the families are out there, something for it. So everyone's going to be happy. And then
• 43:06
  Speaker C: the last one, the big, big gig is probably the biggest gig we've ever done in Glasgow actually. Kelvin Grove park on the 15th of August and we've got there before we play. It's Friends Again who are a band from the same area as me in Lanarkshire. They're from both as well all those years ago. Up and coming star, Alice Fay. Yeah, great, great singer, songwriter and a great band. Great local band. Three girls and a guy called Sister John who are also on last night from Glasgow.
• 43:43
  Speaker A: So yes, Sister John are brilliant.
• 43:45
  Speaker C: Yeah, a really good band. So it's one of the. This gig because it's the last Saturday, doors are at five o'. Clock. So the first band, we're about half six or some six, quarter past six and then every 40 minutes or whatever there'll be a different band on.
• 44:02
  Speaker A: So and fingers crossed for this. This sort of weather.
• 44:04
  Speaker C: But hopefully, hopefully the weather's good.
• 44:07
  Speaker A: Hopefully we're not using up all the sunshine this week, by the way.
• 44:09
  Speaker C: I know, I know.
• 44:10
  Speaker A: I always got a wee bit nervous when it's like nine days in a row sunshine. You Know, but. But I mean, there is. There is a. There's a thin line between you wanting it to be sunny for people to enjoy it. But we played Boomtown Festival a couple years ago and it was 36 degrees and it was like. It's kind of like a sandy desert type vibe. And I didn't think I was going, people collapse.
• 44:29
  Speaker C: People collapsing and all that. Yeah. That's not fun. That's not.
• 44:32
  Speaker A: No, I. I nearly collapsed.
• 44:34
  Speaker C: Even performing. Even performing and seeing it's really hot. See, when you're really hot, club gig or something like that, especially when you get to a certain age, it's unbelievable. You come off here absolutely knackered. It's like you've been, you know, it's like Muhammad Ali or something. You've been, you know, 13 rounds.
• 44:52
  Speaker A: Do you know. Do you know what changed my mind on that? What changed my mind a bit in that was. Although he was talking about gigs, not the outdoor gigs where there's actually. You're actually literally getting sunburnt, but Steve Mason, for the Beat A band, was saying that he love. He was saying to me that he loves that feeling of the pure heat and the lights on you and the kind of the sweat. If he says he likes that feeling. So I've actually just adopted that stance so that I can try and enjoy it, but there is a limit.
• 45:17
  Speaker C: It's a good way of losing weight. Weight Watchers get on the stage.
• 45:25
  Speaker A: Well, a little bit of. A little bit of a fight or flight and nerves as well. Do you get. I mean, well, your experience. Do you still get nervous or how do you deal with it or do.
• 45:35
  Speaker C: You know, I think you should. I think you should always get nervous. If you don't get nervous, it's the same as if you play football or you play a sport or you play whatever. You should always be shaking yourself a wee bit, like, because you start the adrenaline. You start the adrenaline going. Once you're on the stage, I'm sure every will tell you you don't have it at all. You do nervous talk. If you're. If you're a good neck, you know what I mean? If you're. If you hang over, it's a nightmare, you know? It's a nightmare.
• 46:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 46:03
  Speaker C: Hanging on in the microphone. Oh, Jesus Christ, help me. You never want to be in that situation. I'll tell you a funny one, man. There was a band, I was kind of looking afterwards and they were big talkers, you know, they were talking over there. But it was at my skunk stuff and I Was like, look, guys, don't do that before you go on stage. Honestly, I've been doing this for a long time. Really don't do it. Really don't do it. So they did it. And one of them were on stage and went like that to the audience. What you looking at?
• 46:36
  Speaker A: Sorry. Say that. I think you just cut there a wee bit, man. Sorry.
• 46:41
  Speaker C: He said what you.
• 46:49
  Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no.
• 46:51
  Speaker C: Anyway. Anyway, that's funny. Funny aside, but no. Since my brother and I were kids, like, so our parents were kind of focused and we used having a weekend, big parties, 40 people in the living room and. And her older brothers, the three above us. And they were all sent to guitar lessons and all that, and we weren't. And then when they were 14 or 15, they would play a song at a mom and dad's parties. All guys in beards and banjos and all that. In the 60s, late 60s. And they would stay up when they were maybe 12, 13, they would play a song, Country Road, Take Me Home or whatever. And then when he got to 14. That's a brass neck. I'm not doing that right. But we never got to that stage. So when the guitars were handed out to us, we never write a lesson to them. We just learned off their chord sheets and watching Top of the Pops and we're the guy's fingers rebel. So when it got to earth, we never got to that stage. When you're 14, you know what I do anymore? You're like, yes men giving you money, can of beer and all that. We're like, keep going. So because it was two of us and we're close together in age, we kind of backed each other up. So you're not on your own. You know what I mean? It's not like, oh, no, it's a nightmare. I've got to sing a song. Well, I'm just. Your song guys. Key Money, rather so. So we never had that. Terrible. I know a few, especially singers. Terrible time, stage fright and all that, but we never actually had that. And it was because it was kind of ingrained in us, so it was natural for us to perform.
• 48:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 48:32
  Speaker C: And the older brothers and sister. Oh, you're just showing off. We're allowed to give up monkeys. You know what I mean? Showing off. Okay, I'm gonna show off. Who cares? A man just gave me ten bob.
• 48:44
  Speaker A: Well, do you know, I didn't get any stage. I got. I've stood for it a couple of times, but it's been. It was after lockdown, I think. See, by not doing it because I was just always doing stuff.
• 48:54
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker A: It never really occurred to me. And obviously you do get the nerves before the game, but the big. The big match you should always have.
• 49:02
  Speaker C: You should always have theirs just before because you're always. You're always thinking the drums here, it's a guitar there is the blah, blah, blah. And my harmonica's out there, is the tambourine there and the set lists out there. So you just do a quick. You know, that way you bring your quickness. That done. And fortunately we've got Ronies, though, who are very good and they know exactly what I need. He needs that and he's that and he's that and he's about water or a beer or whatever it is.
• 49:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think what happened was the time I got a stage freight was actually you talked about that at Dune. It was a few years ago and just after, I think was like the year after lockdown or something. And it was working out. Just felt a wee bit out of practice. So I felt a bit under prepared. And I've been running. And I'd been running a stage all weekend and this was a massive stage. We were on the big stage about midnight and we'd been swapped with some big names. We were on after, I think Warm Duchar and Yardak. So it was like two big bands that we were on after.
• 50:04
  Speaker C: I was there, I was there, I saw that.
• 50:06
  Speaker A: And then we would. We. I think I'd ran out of cortisol, see, because, you know, behind the scenes it was all. It was chaos, man. So by the time I went on, you know, that nerves, you know, the adrenaline. There was no adrenaline left to come in.
• 50:17
  Speaker C: That's. That's terrible.
• 50:20
  Speaker A: It was a very. This was a very unique experience. No, never happened once. But then a couple of times after that I was worried that that might happen again. But it's not actually happened again. I've got over it now, but I've only had it.
• 50:30
  Speaker C: I've only had it once. And as you say, see, you're doing too many things. Yeah, we do too many things. So the only time ever happened to be quite young, it was in America. We were flying everywhere and we were stopped in Minneapolis. It was. Snow was up to the. You know, it was really cold at minus 40 or something, right. So the fight couldn't take off and we were going to New York and we made it by the skinnier teeth to the gig. I was like, we're never going to make this gig. And it was a really Big gig. And the record company were coming. Sire Records. Seymour Stein. He's dead famous. Blah, blah, blah. He's coming. And we were signed to them and all that. It was like, oh, and this is a Peppermint Lounge and it's all cool. And I was never. I was like, ah, we're not gonna. And we made it, it seemed. The time we got on stage, I was absolutely knackered. But I was holding onto the mic like that.
• 51:20
  Speaker B: Oh.
• 51:21
  Speaker C: So I could hardly stand. And we were shy because I didn't have time to be nervous. We were right. We were just like that. We really let ourselves. But it wasn't really usually let ourselves down. It was just timing and.
• 51:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 51:36
  Speaker C: Bad luck and snow and blah, blah, blah. And we were absolutely no sleep. Just absolutely.
• 51:41
  Speaker A: And what was it?
• 51:42
  Speaker C: We're on a minute.
• 51:43
  Speaker A: When you say you were shy, were you actually shooting? Was the crowd that. The crowd responded in a way that you knew that?
• 51:47
  Speaker C: No, but you can tell. You can. I just thought we were lackadaisical. I thought there was no spark. We were all the same. We're all knackered. Yeah. We're all. We want to go to bed, man. We're exhausted. We're really exhausted because we've been up for like 24 hours. And then we were on at half 12, you know, the next day, sort of like midday, after midday. And we were like. I was gonna be greeting, you know, because I couldn't depth in. I couldn't get in there. I couldn't get the adrenaline.
• 52:17
  Speaker A: Too tired.
• 52:18
  Speaker C: Oh, Jesus Christ. And I was like. And it was our last gig in America and I'm like. So that was the end of that. But we are doing too much. You're too busy because you still have time to relax and time to chill out. Eat properly is the most important thing. And then you're. You've got the power and have that be natural adrenaline rush, which you should.
• 52:43
  Speaker A: A very. A very big breakfast. Obviously, we know early on in the day because. I don't know, it's not even like. Not even overly nervous. It's just that my appetite just disappears maybe a bit, I think run a bit sound check. I find it hard to find.
• 53:00
  Speaker C: I like a hefty lunch. I like a hefty lunch. And then I do eat till afterwards. Because the other thing is, even the support band, like. So we toured with people like Elvis Castello. You had a sport badge. You playing polo or whatever. Haircut 100, all these bands.
• 53:15
  Speaker A: What was Elvis Costello like?
• 53:17
  Speaker C: Oh, he's brilliant. He produced A lot of the tracks, their first album. He was really good. He was like a teacher. He could have taught me to use a microphone. So, you know, you get these big noman microphones. He's like that. He's got a bit of a Scouse accent because he's from Liverpool, but he's kind of posh Liverpool. So I would. I said, I'll try it. He went, ken, see you, Mike. Don't sing into the mic. Don't sing into the mic. Sing across the mic. Because he says, you get the same as me. He says, I'm from Liverpool and I
• 53:52
  Speaker A: sing
• 53:56
  Speaker C: through my nose. Do you know what I mean? And you're singing for your throat. So he taught me how he sing
• 54:02
  Speaker A: from here, the diaphragm trick.
• 54:07
  Speaker C: So he taught me how to sing from there and not use your nose. Because if you're from Lanarkshire, you tend to talk through your nose. I went to a singing teacher once, Mrs. Cotter, and she says, me and David at the same time. And it was on that. All that. And it wasn't to be a better singer, it was to. So you could have longevity on tour, so you didn't lose your voice, basically. And the first thing she said to us, we went into her room, nice posture. She said, what. What part of Lanarkshire are you boys from? And I was like a cheeky bastard, you know, I thought, that's cheek. And she says. And then she was like. She dropped her accent, she says, because I'm coat bridge. And she says, you speak the exact same way as me. You're speaking through your nose. Stop speaking through your nose. I probably speak through my nose just now, you know what I mean? But there's a bit of vocal nose, so. So if you sit across the mic. So the mic's like that. Flat, open, open. There you sit and cross. Takes that, takes that out of it. He was a good one.
• 55:24
  Speaker A: And it's just amazing, just what you can learn in one session. Because it says it's. I had to do it because I had a vocal at a throat operation. So I was. I was made to do it. I couldn't talk for a month. Can you believe that?
• 55:36
  Speaker C: Did you have nodules?
• 55:38
  Speaker A: Vocal polyp, A vocal pole and. Yeah, they said it was. Maybe that. They said it can be caused by four things. One, talking too much. Guilty of that. Two, drinking and smoking. Too much. Guilty that. Three, performing live without vocal warmers. I've never vocal warmed up my wife and we were touring or. Or the fourth one, it might just be Genetic. But I don't think anybody else has had a vocal pop, so I think I've got to take the blame for that one. But yeah, it was quite interesting to learn because. Because after that, after that lesson I could. I didn't. I wasn't aware that I could hit such high notes quite easily. But I didn't really bring it into my live performance because I was like. That was about an hour of warming up. So I don't want to be. I don't want to be singing something that.
• 56:24
  Speaker C: Oh, no. Ten minutes. Ten minutes.
• 56:26
  Speaker A: I'm quite happy with my two notes. I've got a low note and I've got a slightly less lower note. And it's fine for what I do, it's fine for what I did.
• 56:34
  Speaker C: But I think also the couple exercises. You probably can't sit here, but just like breathe in.
• 56:39
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 56:40
  Speaker C: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Exhale. Like that. But standing up, stand up, touch your toes, the whole thing. Then you're. This is all full. So you're not using your. You're not using that. You're not using that.
• 56:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know when you're. You know when you're doing it, the. I've never felt it before because, see, when you're singing through your nose as well, you know, the band that you're kind of doing is kind of sort of variation of punk. A wee bit punky at times and it's just quite fast and quite worthy. And see if you're like. If you're a wee bit nervous and you. You start doing it, I felt it and it's exhausting. So I know when I'm doing it because it should be. You should be free on that stage.
• 57:22
  Speaker C: You should feel natural.
• 57:24
  Speaker A: Everything should be muscle memory and just becoming automatically and enjoyable. So it should be. There is usually a diaphragm, but yeah, luckily I'm okay.
• 57:34
  Speaker C: Well, I'm from the same background as you. Punk rock, like. So our first band's gonna be punk rock.
• 57:38
  Speaker A: We.
• 57:38
  Speaker C: We're not going walking.
• 57:43
  Speaker A: Sn. Like on a. On a. On a 12 bill all day. Who's the nicest. I want to play. I want to play your new single before we go, but just west. Do we name drop? Because you said that was Castell. That's a good name drop. Who's the nicest person in rock and roll you've met? Who's. Who's somebody that's nice. I don't like bitching about people. So who's. Is there somebody that is quite famous that you thought was Dead nice. Because I know some people, just the more famous they get, they just become,
• 58:14
  Speaker C: right, this guy. This was before I was in the Blue Bells or whatever, right? But When I was 17, I went to London, a high city, London, with a demo tape from the band called Rodeo, right, With my brother, guy called Donald Care, a guy called Dixie Deans. And we were all from Born Smith's Tea and Shaving and we thought it was quite good. So I thought, well, I'll go to London and try and get a record deal. So in a dafti, I hit maybe three days, right? I could have got a stage coach that would take me eight hours, you know what I mean? I was completely. Then we got there anyway, so I took around a few places. They weren't really that interested, so I just stayed and I got a job and I got a job cleaning fridges and cookers and this place, it was a place in Nashville, which is where the Sex Pistols played all. It's West Kensington. West Kensington sounds posh. It's not. It's nice to Fulham and all that. The Hammersmith. So across the road there was a shop and had loads of secondhand fridges and cookers. Outside it was corner shop. And my brother says, go try. And they ran all the guys in there. My older brother was there at the time. So I went in and it was all Scottish guys, apart from one guy who worked here. And I said, little while we went, go and put on the rubber suit. What, so it's a rubber shoot, right? Like that, pure rubber. Blah. Big gloves and all that, big mask and all that. And you got a cooker. So they get cookers from the lab. They used to be an advert that says if you hand in your old cooker, you get five pounds off your new cooker. The Leb. They're the same thing in the sseb. Scottish or your old French. Anyway, they put these in the big junkyard. But the Scottish guys knew the Scottish guy who was the Johnny and the. You know, the junkyard. So we used to go over by Glory and take the best ones and then clean them up. Anyway, the old guy who was not Scottish there was called Luther Grosvenor and he was in a bank called Mought the Hoople. And he'd kind of fallen in, you know, times a wee bit hard times, basically. Kids. And he wasn't in a band anymore with three kids or whatever. He didn't have any money and he had been mentoring in the early 70s. So he was kind of pop pro rock guy. He'd Been Spooky Tooth and he'd been all these different buzz. And he was the best guy I ever met as a rocker ex rocker, very humble. And he really encouraged me because I got out of music. I'd been in this punk band, no Happening, with the demo tape. I told him I played him and he went, it's all right, you know, he said, but what you need to keep doing, you need to keep doing it. So a couple of times we go to this pub and play a wee gig or whatever. So he kept me in music because I'd probably stay in London and never come back home or whatever, you know. And so Luther Grofter, who was. His name was Ariel Bender. His nickname was Ariel Bender and what the Hoople. And you know why he's called Ariel Bender? I said, I said. I said, why are you called Ariel Bender? Why was your name in what Bender? And he had a bit of a country accent. He's from Evesham. Evesham. And he went, oh, one night. It was. One night. It was a party in Lindsay DePaul's house. And I. I bet the aerial for Jensen interception. He nearly bent the area over water just out of badness because he was getting chucked out at the parties. He's called Ariel Bender. That's it. But he's my. He's my hero, man. I love him. He's still alive, by the way. He's got album out and all that.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker A: Oh, amazing, amazing. And you. You did just. You did you do a little bit of music? So I don't exactly know. I know that you have been involved in college, sort of education side of things. Yeah. Are you still doing that just now or.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker C: No, I retired from that maybe a year ago. A year ago. So I worked at Stowe College.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker C: And it's called Music Business Management. They had a record label called Electric Honey.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, Electric Honey have done some great stuff over the years. Kind of like the. It's a record label that the students can sort of take over.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker C: And we of. We kind of managed to, you know, their ideas, basically.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker A: Some big. Some big names have came through.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker C: Buffy Clyr, first record, Snow Patrol, first record, Bell and Sebastian's first record. They were all way back before I started there. So I started there about 1987. No, I didn't. I went to university in 1987. I come down. No, 1997. I came out like 2001.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker C: And then I got a job there. Right. So I was working Alan Rankin and associates. Guy Douglas McIntyre, who's down urban and I. So it was great. It was a good way. The. The record label was a good vehicle of showing people how music works. So you've got something that can maybe go on the radio, good chance, maybe a bit commercial or whatever, not too obscure, maybe. And then you design the sleeve and you record the record. Then you, you talk to the band and what do they want and all that, as much as you possibly can. And then you put it out and you market it and see how many you sell. And it's quite hard, but sometimes it works.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker A: It's very different. Sometimes it works.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker C: So at that time, at that time, just before me, there's a huge budget, man. They had like 20 grand or something like that, right? 20 grand in 1985, 4, 3. When they were putting out Bell and Sebastian, Buffy
• 1:03:43
  Speaker A: Tiger, Milk, I think that was, if I'm right,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker C: they spent a fortune. So by the time I got there, they had five grand. Yeah, it's a big difference in 20 grand and five grand. You know what I mean?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker A: You picked an interesting time to, to join, to. To start educating people. But the music industry, because it's. I mean, it's almost unrecognizable from the, from the.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker C: Well, the whole thing is profile and all that, is that it's, you know, we don't know everything. My experiences would be completely different from any young musician starting off now, you know what I mean? But there'd be certain things that would be similar. You still got a record deal, you still got a publishing deal, you still get market, you still got to do promotion, you still got to do live gigs. You know, I know loads of people who are fantastic musicians, but they're bedroom musicians. They never go out and play. Nobody's going to hear you. So you've got to find an alternative route that way, maybe use social media or whatever. But I think the best way still is life, the life experience. See, the more that people work in call centers and have jobs, because there's not that many good jobs about, you know, not that many. Right. For your average person.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker A: I've done the call centers.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker C: I know everybody has the shit. They're really. Yeah, yeah. I'd rather clean fridges, you know. So I think if you do one of them things you want to escape at the weekend, you won't go and see a band. You want to go to the pub and go, oh, let's go. Either, you know, whatever it is, the Barrellands or whatever gig it is, you know, you wake out there, or a club, sub club, or you want to go you know, these places are still about. And mark what type of music. It could be dance music, could be reggae music, could be hip hop. You can find your niche and have your release because music is a great thing for being involved. It's a great community thing. You can build your own community with music, you know, and. And. And enjoy it and travel with it as well. If you're playing a festival, you play a festival around the corner of Kilbourne or whatever, you know, it's possible as possible. These things are possible. You know, maybe playing Glassbury's a wee bit in the background, you know, that's maybe a couple years off.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker A: Oh, you can. But you can play Glastonbury, but they won't give you. They won't give you a free ticket. That's how close we got to Glastonbury. But we needed to pay for one ticket. You can't even. We didn't have a budget for that. And we also. You can't even buy a ticket. No, we played.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker C: We played Glastonbury last year, which is brilliant, actually. It was acoustic stage, but it was huge. I played. I played it. Maybe McCloskey brothers. So I kind of knew roughly what it is. But it's totally corporate now. It's, you know, when I was there, 93, it was all guys, oh, Ease Whiz, Scouser selling stuff and all that. Sorry, Scousers. But they were. They were. And it was manky and it was all, you know, it was mental, right? Mental. It's very corporate that you would get dirty. It was dead sunny. Not saying that's corporate, but it just happened to be sunny. There's track way over the whole thing. So there's no. You're never going to get body boots. There's nobody selling drugs because everybody brings her own trucks. It's very middle class. It's, oh, hello, Samantha and all that, you know, blah, blah, blah. It's very south of England as well. Very, very Home Counties. But for that it was fantastic. And I had to buy tickets for my kids, so I'm like, can I get a couple of tickets for the kids tonight, though? 400 quid each. There's two of them. One's 19 and one's 21.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker A: So there's a couple of spare tickets that you can buy if you're an artist in that, at that level. So.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker C: All right, so there's. But there's still 400 quid each.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker C: But you know what? That was on holidays that year.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker C: I said to them, I said, to them. Like, guys, we're not going any holidays, right?
• 1:07:44
  Speaker A: I mean, I think I've still not been there. The closest I've been is at Boomtown, which is sort of, I think, not quite on the scale of Glastonbury, but comparatively huge.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker A: They do an incredible job of the. The art. Like, I mean, they just built an entire. An entire town for it and. But yes. So we've. That's an hour and. An hour and 10 minutes has flown by. Mate, it's been a pleasure. We've got the fishing song lined up. So tell us about what. What is it about fishing?
• 1:08:12
  Speaker C: Right, I go fishing, right? I go down to Kelford. I go down the client. I do. I've got a permit. Honest, honestly. But no, the fishing song is just. It's about like, it was basically being my. My wife, right? And it's. Or it could be any relationship and, you know, that way. Oh, you said that. You said that. You did that. You did that. And you're getting a wee bit touchy with each other and all that and you're like, you know what, let's just go fishing, man, and go over it and forget like, oh, I said that and you said that and blah, blah. Forgiveness. It's about forgiveness.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker A: Amazing. And even though you're a dick, even though. And you. You'll be. So. You're refreshing. So you go fishing at the Kelvin and you're also got. You're gonna play the Kelvin Go band stand. I've never before, but I've been at many gigs there over the last few years and since they've reopened it and it's. It's an amazing atmosphere. So that'll be. That'll be cracking the 15th of August. I've got a couple of comments actually, from. I think Liam has confirmed he's gonna go, Yes, I will come to the Kelvin Grove bandstances. Liam. And it was 1983 that I think that you played in the. In the. And Wishy and cre.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker C: It would have been. Yeah, it would have been. Yeah, it would have been. It would have been.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker A: Shout outs to Higgs.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker C: More.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker A: Thank you to everyone who's tuned in and go and check out the new album. This is the Blue Bells. It is available everywhere. But buy the physical for last night from Glasgow or the local record shop. Support your local record shop unless you stay really far away. If you're a record shop, they support you really far away. Record.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker C: Monorail. Monorail. Scott. Love music. Any of the ones in Glasgow. I don't know the other Towns. Oh, yeah. Europa Music is if you're in Sterling Avalanche, I think if you're in Edinburgh. Apart from that, I don't know any record shows.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker A: Amazing. It's been a pleasure. Let's cheers. Always the fishing song to take us out and hopefully see you on the. On the 15th at the bandstand.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker B: You say hi, I say hello. Now we have no place to go. Your inhibition stifles my ambition. Tide's coming in, it's time to go. But you know how the water flows. Intuition beats my hapless cognition. Let's hit the road on the song. Just pick me up and drive away. Just drive away. It's been so long since I felt free. I got the weight of the world on me. My condition stressed by repetition. It's time to go, I'm feeling rough. I stayed up late last night writing stuff. An act of contrition. It's part of my condition. Let's take a road on a Sunday. Just pick me up and drive away. Just drive away, I'll take your fish. We watch the pig rides for the fly. You say hi, I say no. Now we have no place to go. Your inhibition stifles my ambition. Tide's coming in, it's time to go. But you know how the water flows. Intuition beats by half blood cognition. Let's hit the road on the song of death. Just pick me up and drive away. Just drive away. I'll take you fishing tonight. We'll watch the fish rides for the flies. We leave our heads, we cleave our mind. No one beating for the front.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker C: You call that radio.