Latest / Pete Vs Anxiety!!!!! / Transforming Pain into Purpose: Andrew Drasen's Journey
Transcript
- Peter: Hello, welcome to another exciting episode of Pete versus Anxiety. guest today is an author of A Vision of Hope, the creator of the 90-day framework that helps people discover identity, clarity, direction, and builds purpose-driven lives. His mission is to help people see not just who they are, but who they can become, transforming pain into growth. Please welcome in the one and only Andrew Drayson. How you doing, Andrew? Andrew Drasen: I'm doing great. How are you doing, Pete? Peter: So tell everybody a little more about yourself. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, so I had a fairly normal childhood growing up. ⁓ Grew up in the Midwest, Wisconsin born and raised and started weed and drinking around 12, discovered pills by 16. The first time I snorted an oxy, I was ⁓ soaked It was and that kind of started my long battle with addiction and incarceration. I was first arrested during my junior year at school. you know, they put the cuffs on me right outside of the school and that kind of started my battle with the legal system. so fast forward seven felonies and eight treatments later in 2019, the last time I was incarcerated and the last treatment that I went through, I wrote my memoir and I knew I had about six to eight months to do. I'd done a bit of time in the past and wanted to make better use of it. So I decided to write. And so I share bits and pieces of it with different inmates and staff along the way and the response that I got was very encouraging and ended up sharing a bit during a presentation in our community during the last treatment. It ended up leading the counselor to ask me to give the commencement speech, gave the commencement speech and it just kind of planted a seed that ⁓ this help people ⁓ and know it's ⁓ well it's my story it's also So a lot of universal, you know. themes to it, I guess. so I ended up getting out ⁓ and I together with my fiance, Caroline. We were together for five and a half years. I started cars. sold cars for about four years, quit, sold solar for about two years, stopped doing that. ⁓ I ended up half of the book and I found, I ended up finding it at my dad's house and I'd already stopped selling solar at that time. And I kind of took it as a sign, like, you you're, supposed release this and I started ⁓ of Hope Media ⁓ in of this year, Caroline, she was also in recovery and ⁓ she kind had a mental health crisis and ended up taking her life in July. ⁓ Peter: Jesus, I'm so sorry, Andrew Drasen: Yeah, thanks. you know, that's the hardest thing that I've been through in my life by far. And, you know, there was obviously a period where I didn't get a lot done, but ultimately it ended up reinforcing my mission that I want to help people with similar struggles and reach them before they reach the cliff's edge. So. there. So the vision has pretty substantially from just writing that book. ⁓ There's also Reflections companion book, which initially I also wrote that during the same period of confinement. But initially I was going to incorporate it into the main book, but ⁓ was already almost like 200,000 words, which is a long book. So, you it became its own book. And as I was going through the editing process, I just I thought about all of the treatments that I've been Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: through and how a lot of them kind of recycled a lot of similar information that really didn't make much of a difference for me anyways. You know, didn't really need to know how drugs affected my kidney or my brain or you know, how specifically it affected me. I knew they were bad for me. That didn't keep me clean. So that kind of inspired the workbook ⁓ and there's ⁓ a day curriculum that's built out of the workbook and I'm in active talks with different treatment centers, reentry Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: programs about piloting the curriculum. also, ⁓ yeah. Peter: That's awesome. That's so cool, man. That's cool to see, I agree with you, though. I think that, you know, I don't think a lot of those processes work. I had the same feeling about these videos about suicide, you know. It's like, ⁓ hey, after you take your life and you're basically listing all the reasons why, you hey, listen, go ahead and continue to do anyways, because it's not going to matter. Life's going to continue to move on without you. You know, I feel like they're counterproductive to what people are trying to do with them, honestly. And to me, I think they're maybe even, triggering to some people that are already in that state of mind. Andrew Drasen: What? I'm not even sure what you're referring to. Peter: You know those videos where like you ever see those videos where people are sitting there like and they recorded like listen after you the day after you take your life and they start listing like different things all your text messages you'll have like 18 text messages missing from your mom and all these things they start listing little by little in the list of things I feel like they're just not really counter they're not really productive to what you're trying to do like you're telling me that someone who's who's suicidal is gonna watch this video is gonna think that this is this is encouraging no this is encouraging them to continue with what they're thinking at this point because you're telling them that basically life goes on without them is what the message I'm getting from that video. You haven't seen those before? They're kind of like, they're really jarring when you see them. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, and I'm I may have like it sounds familiar now that you've described it, but I recall one specifically, but I understand what you mean. mean, you know, if someone's already in that down and hopeless state, you want to try and help instill some hope and not, know, kind of tack on like the guilt and the shame, like, because right now they're hurting, you know, and they don't see a way out of that hurt. And so, yeah, I agree. Peter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I thought about that when you said that, you know, like you don't need someone to teach you what drugs are doing to you. Like I already know they're bad. It's like it's the same thing in those situations. Like I don't need you to remind me on why it is I feel this way or this is already how I feel. So now you're listing all the reasons. You know what I mean? It's not productive, which it did sense in the same place I was heading the same way you were going is that it just isn't productive to what you're trying to do with that. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, and I mean, that's tough, you know, because ⁓ don't know if it's clinical, if it's situational, if it's environmental, if it's a combination of all of the above. ⁓ mean, there's ⁓ always going to be some hurt and some pain and some hopelessness. Those are always to be some themes. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's unfortunate you just lost somebody to that too and it's it's I'm so sorry for you man. That's rough I am really it's really hard to hear that from people because you know, it's like after that then it's like people don't know what to say to you then they treat you differently because they're like, oh yeah, there goes Andrew, you know, he lost his better half to what you know what mean? It's like you always feel like they're constantly talking about you in secrecy. Andrew Drasen: I mean, thing that I kind of live by is like, it's not my opinion, what other people's opinion of me is. It's not my business what other people's opinion of me is, you know? mean, I just ⁓ and share what I've been through to, and hopefully whoever needs to hear it hears it and it can give them courage to talk about what they're going through or just hope that they can get through it also. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Right. So let's change subjects and let's talk about the book now. was that first idea, that moment when you came to you like, like, damn, I'm going to write this book and people need to see this. When did you really get that moment of like, hey, this is a great idea when you started getting ready to publish it. Obviously you were thinking about it. So what were your initial fears when you posted, put that book out there because you're putting a lot of yourself out there for the world to see. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, I mean, it's been called unflinchingly honest and like the honesty is it's been that's a theme that's been in like every review. And I mean, those are kind of three different questions. I mean, what I thought when I first decided to write it, I'd been kind of encouraged to write a book in the past by like counselors, social workers, things of that nature. And my mom and I had talked about co-writing a book at one point and ⁓ knew I had six to eight months to do. So I was like, you know what? Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: I'm just gonna do it. what kind of gave me encouragement, like I said, along the way I'd share bits and pieces and just the response that I get. was just, it was very excellent. then I guess my fear upon releasing it ⁓ that... Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: that it wouldn't be received the right way, you know, because I just, my intention on writing it was for people to have a better understanding on what an addict thinks and feels and goes through, you know, because it's only by understanding can we develop compassionate and healing systems that help rather than punish. And I feel like that's, having lived it, that's something that never, it wasn't a deterrent for me, you know, going to jail or prison, you know. Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: once I'd been there, it lost, it wasn't enough to keep me clean. I'll put it that way. It wasn't until that I was able to see that I could have a different life for myself ⁓ you know, ⁓ kind of develop that internal motivation, did things start to change. Peter: Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that completely and it makes sense so you know the fact that early on you start seeing the people responding to your story was a good thing too because you can see that you're sharing the story with people and it's like ⁓ well I'm getting a great response so may I should continue to go and then you continue writing this book and then when you release it people are saying it's raw and real and everything else but it's I think that's what people need though that's the approach a lot of people need is just that that punchy in the mouth kind of thing it's like people don't want to be sugar-coated they just want to be told when they're fucking up they need you to tell them You know, I think when it comes to addiction, it's so hard because a lot of people tell you to just watch them just completely crash. You know, that your thought on that, though, too? I mean, I'm sure you probably have a different view to that. Andrew Drasen: What do you mean by watch? Peter: Okay, so what I'm saying is like they watch people, one person I interviewed early on in the show, okay, his explanation to it was that sometimes you just gotta watch him hit rock bottom proverbially. Now, in your own opinion, do you feel like that's the truth? Because you've been there, you've been on the other side of the coin, do you think that's what you'd want somebody to do for you? Andrew Drasen: I mean, that's tough because it has to come from within, know, like that internal desire and hope that you can change and can have a better life. That has to be something that comes from within, but having encouragement and, you know, sometimes ultimatums from loved ones, I mean, it can be... Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Andrew Drasen: You know, one, one saying that's common in like recovery circles is bring the body and the mind will follow, you know, because sometimes you just need to clean out first to be able to see things clearly. Because when we are lost in addiction, it hijacks everything. hijacks brain, your actions, your interactions, just everything. And, you know, ⁓ very hard to have a ⁓ clean perception when you're still in that state. So, ⁓ know, getting someone to, to, ⁓ know, detail. Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: or inpatient treatment. I sometimes it may take, you know, some tough love, but to stay clean, that has to be an internal desire. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, and it's hard to sometimes when you're trying to help people like, you know, like Jay and I are really good friends. hang out with him a lot on TikTok. We hang out in these circles with people that are different people going through these are recovering addicts or people and things like that. then like his approach is like that, though, he's real aggressive, though. But at the same time, it's what people need. Like he's just like, yo, you just need to stop. And he does that with me, too. Like I can come to him, but I know exactly what I'm going to get from him. Like I already know Jay's going to hit me with some strong, truth, but it's what I want, though. You know what mean? So I know who I'm coming to for that question. Like I know I'm doing something or I'm getting carried away. He'll just say stop. And that's it. Like I can imagine how he's saying it to me. He have to verbalize it. He literally just text and I can imagine how he's saying it. So I love the approach, though, and I think it's interesting because his story was interesting, He is one me and him met originally. I just knew there's something special about him when I was talking to him. And then I got to meet him and he came on the show and everything like that. We discussed a little bit about his past and things like that, too. And I think that that's what really where you guys are ahead is that you've been there, you know what it's like. So like when people come at you with that, well, Andrew, what do you know? Well, let me tell you what I know and just run down the list of things. I've been there. You don't think I don't know where you've been? That's a lot of times that's what it is. People want to see how authentic you are. And I think that's when it comes to lot of information these days. People don't ask that question of, especially with the internet, man, so much information floating around. Like nobody stops to ask, hey, what's the credibility of this person? What do they know? You know I mean? Andrew Drasen: Yeah. Peter: You know, it's different for you and Jay. You guys are different about it. You guys are we know which is as you already listed. Hey, listen, this is about me. Hey, guess what? And then some of the other people he hangs out with, too. I'm just like, I love him, too, because there's just so straight and to the point. It's like that's what you need. Sometimes you just need somebody to say, hey, wake up and stop feeling sorry for your goddamn self and get some shit going here, you know. And a lot of people don't like that aggressive approach. But I think I think it really works. So shocks your system and tells you, hey, wake up. Here's a reality check for you. You want that one. You need to get some fucking help or else, you know. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, and mean, the important thing is honesty, you know, being honest with yourself and then having people around you who are going to be honest with you, you know. Yeah, yeah, because I mean, you know, whether however that comes, if it comes off rough or, you know, just just truth, you know, it's we don't need we need people who are going to encourage us to be better and not, you know, pacify us to stay the same or in our destructive behaviors or whatever the case may be. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. I'll hold you accountable too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, no, I agree 100 % too, you know. So why don't you take us through your 90 day system. Give us a little idea of what it would be like. Say I'm coming into the system. How would it go for me? What's the first steps and kind of lead me through a little bit? Give me a little taste of what it is. Andrew Drasen: So, I mean, the it can be worked on its own. So it's available ⁓ books are sold. But I do believe in the power of group therapy, which is why I'm reaching out to treatment centers and sober houses, things of that nature. So it goes through, ⁓ now the itself, it doesn't talk about drugs or alcohol one time, because I don't believe that is the... Peter: Okay. Awesome. Okay. Andrew Drasen: I believe that's a symptom of whatever the root is of why we're using. It's usually a combination of some kind of unresolved trauma and a lack of identity and purpose and vision for our lives and our future. So it goes through a few key aspects. It goes through ⁓ identity restoration. So kind of learning who we are, what we like, what we dislike, our strengths, our weaknesses, our values, our ⁓ just kind of rediscovering our identity. Peter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Andrew Drasen: Then it goes into cognitive restructuring. So it looks at how we think and whether it's based on reality or on our perception. Then visualizing the life that we want for ourselves, everything from what we want to be doing for work, we want to be doing in our free time, what we want our relationships to look like, where do we want to live? What do we want to drive? What do we want to, you know, just of it. Then it's creating an plan to create that version. Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: of your life. at the end it zooms out and it kind of gets people to think about their legacy and how they want to be remembered. you know hopefully the end a participant will have a better idea of who they are, what they want their life to look like, have a plan in place to achieve that vision, and have an idea on how they can give back to their community instead of being strictly self-serving. ⁓ Peter: Yeah, no, think that's I think that's great, though. I mean, it's really great how you go through that because I think identity is a big one, too, because a lot of times we lose ourselves with that kind of thing, you know, and then it takes over. Then it's the same thing for me. I'm not an addict, but I like I had the same issue. I lost my identity a long time ago and now I've rediscovered it through this podcast as I went through and started interviewing different people, meeting different people, I start learning new things, you know. So it's great that, you know, you're here telling me about a lot of this stuff because I can better help, you know, in these situations of people I run into. So I'm always willing to help people out and love it, though, you know. And I love the fact that you make people think about what they want to be remembered as because I don't think a lot of people really think that far ahead, you know, you know, what kind of legacy do you want to leave? Like you have kids. What do you want your kids to remember you like? You know, me and my kids don't have the greatest relationship, but at the end of the day, I want them to let them know that I did what I could to help anybody that I could at that point. You know, I may not have been the greatest parent to them. I'm sorry, but I mean, I'm trying to do what I can now, you know, and even with kids. it's you have to read. You really have to show them that you're changing that kind of thing, too, because they're ready. They're watching for it to happen. They're looking for you to make a mistake. with mine, we went from not speaking to speaking now. it's just like, you know, it's it's hard, man. It's it's hard to get through that stuff. But, you know, it's great that, you know, you have this workbook readily available that people can take and just kind of do at their own pace kind of thing. ⁓ know, but I love the steps, though, goes through, because I think that you're covering all the things you need to. I think setting goals is great, too. ⁓ if they're just kind of like we were me and Jay were talking to somebody the other day ⁓ we were that's what I love though the workbook concept, I really do. I really think the idea is great that people can take it and work their way through the steps. I have an anxiety journal that works kind of similar to that, though it works you to one side to the other. It takes you to where your current thought process is and then you kind of start going through it. And as you're breaking it down, you're like, well, okay, what's the reality of this shit really going on? You're like, okay, well, what's the real possibility of what's going on here? And then when you get to the end, it's like, okay, well, think about what you just wrote from page one to page two. And it's like, by the time you get to the end, it's like, okay, you realize- Either A. It's just really silly or B. It's just a fear that you're coming up with on your own. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, yeah, and I mean, you touched on quite a bit there. ⁓ like, You talked about like celebrating the small wins. That's actually one of the things I incorporate in there is a daily win. So at the bottom of each page, you just write a daily win and just kind of that positive reinforcement and kind of keep perspective that, not everything that's going on in your life is going wrong. So then ⁓ of like the structure. So ⁓ the structure of the memoir. So it tracks along with whatever the themes are and whatever you're reading. Peter: Yeah. I love it. Andrew Drasen: So it works with the memoir, the reflections book and the workbook. So like in the early chapters, for example, it's gonna be like focused on like family life. so the structure of the memoir, there are journal entries that are woven between the chapters, which were basically chronicled from when I was arrested all the way up to my release. Yeah, so there's kind of a duality even with the workbook because Peter: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ I love that. I love that. Andrew Drasen: there's two questions per chapter and two questions per journal entry. So while the chapter questions are gonna kind of look backwards, the journal entries are gonna, those questions are gonna be more geared in the now. So it's kind of processing, you know, where you've been and how it shaped you into who you currently are. There's a little bit of a, like a duality to it there. Peter: Yeah, no, I love that though. I think that's great though. I love the journal entries because the personal ability of it comes even closer, you know, like people could see these are your actual thoughts you were having in that moment, you know, and things like that too. And I think that's why the book probably has such great traction because the realism is that those are your actual thoughts that are coming out. This isn't just something you've made up to put in a book. These are your actual entries, you know, and things like that as well, which I love. absolutely love it when people put those real thoughts in there, you know, especially journal entries, because you never know. what those journal pages are going to contain. your deepest, most thoughts that most people don't even know that you're thinking about every single day. And a lot of times when people journal, ⁓ stuff they don't share with everybody. But for you to put it in that book, I could see why people are really liking it and getting really drawn to it. And then the workbook, in the sense that everything works together, it's great because now I can add this to my list of things to add to people. Like, hey, listen, I just met Andrew. He's got this great book. workbook you should check out and see which you know I mean different things I can add to the toolkit man so I hats off because I love it every time I get to meet somebody with some new new things I can add to my toolkits even better because now I can reach back and ask people like and if I had questions directly obviously I'd come to you first Andrew hey I got a question for you you know and things like that too which is great because I love meeting new people that are doing things like that because I feel like when it comes to memoirs the more ⁓ deeper the deeper you get the better there's there's one actually think of that I read was a breast cancer memoir. I know a lot of people get thrown off when I say that, but it was real. Like this woman took the pictures straight up. You saw everything. The whole thing torn up, all her stitches and everything. But the realism is what really caught me. It's like the fact that you're putting this out there that millions of people can see you for what it is. you know, these scars look like she described them as Frankenstein scars, they were rough to look at. I mean, that realism, I think, is what connects with people is because it's like now you're sharing your innermost personal thoughts with people and now you're connecting at a deeper level because now they're like, OK, well, now I understand who Andrew is, you know, because everybody can write a book. That's great. No, you know, put text in it. But when you start putting your personal thoughts, your personal feelings, your personal entries, I think it's what sets you apart from everybody else, honestly. Andrew Drasen: Yeah. And I mean, I feel like that's what gives it depth is that vulnerability and just kind of putting thought to page and, and like, even like with the journal entries, like ⁓ was like something like a quarter of the participants ended up getting kicked out throughout ⁓ program. And so ⁓ was just kind of like pulling lessons ⁓ the events were unfolding. And I mean, it's, kind of cool. You can kind of see the growth in real time. So yeah, I'm proud of it. ⁓ Peter: ⁓ hell yeah. Yeah, I would be there's no way I wouldn't be that's awesome though because you can see your own personal growth and how it's going and people can see that you know, this is a real person. This isn't just somebody chasing money. This is a guy that's been there knows what's going on can tell you what's been like can speak from experience, you know, and things like that's all in your favor. And then you have all these other tools in place that are just helpful. And then what tools you have in place are just amazing. Like is you're covering everything that you would already think that most people wouldn't even think of that like You know, the legacy thing I still think is the greatest thing of all of it because you're making people think about the future and go, hey, listen, how do you want to be remembered? And I don't think a lot of people ask that question of people because I think that's an interesting one to ask. You know, it's just like me when I ask people, say, hey, how's your mental health? Like the reason is, is because you don't give them that out anymore. It's like I could say, Andrew, how are doing? You can say I'm good. But if you say, hey, how's your mental health? You have to think about now what I just asked you as a question. You can't answer. I'm good right away and just kind of end the conversation because you know I'm gonna lead up with well are you sure you're doing okay? And things like that. You know and it always opens it to a bigger, bigger thing you know and it's always great when you people say that and then they respond they're like ⁓ you know wait hold on wait. They want to say okay but they can't because you didn't give them that out to say okay. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that that legacy piece, I mean, that was just kind of something that just kind of came to me. I mean, it wasn't even anything that I'd really experienced in any of the treatments that I was in and like, kind of how I go into that, for example. So like after someone gets done with the memoir portion and the reflections portion, it ends with a capstone speech where they just put a bunch of different aspects together. And one of those aspects is there to write a eulogy to themselves from the perspective of a loved one. that they'd hope to hear at their funeral. How do you want to be remembered? Peter: That's interesting too, I like that. I like that. You know what I used to when I talk about people being gone but not forgotten? ever think, you remember the Sandlot? Remember the conversation Benny has with Babe Ruthie's talking about heroes die but legends live on forever? That's the kind of aspect I get when I think about, know, if you're asking somebody their legacy, you know, I like to refer to that. I know it's corny to most people, but I like to reference certain movies like that because it makes sense, think about it. because he wasn't wrong. Heroes die, but legends live forever. Think about all the legends out there of different people that did different things versus the heroes. The heroes are there and then they're gone, but the legends live there forever. Think about all the legends that are out there. Like me and I guess earlier, we're talking about Homer, what is it? The Odyssey. Think of the Odyssey as people that are going through mental health, all the different things that he went through ⁓ that whole book. Think of it as that's what a lot of people deal with nowadays. It's all those different journeys are going on and things like that too. And it's the same thing with addiction. You never know, man. Like you guys go through a lot of stuff and I don't think people realize, you know, how hard it is to come back from that because everybody always wants to give you hard time and things like that too. And you know, and one of the things I do tell people that ask me questions, I do tell them though, if you're dealing with somebody that's dealing with an addiction, if they relapse, the one thing I'm going to tell you is don't give them hell about it, man. They already know they messed up. They don't need your help to continue to shit on them. They already shitting on themselves because they know they fucked up because now they have to tell you about it. And that's the thing I don't agree with with that part. It's like Like don't make people feel worse than they already do. They already feel bad. Like, you know, you, you could probably speak to this on your own, you know, like when people relapse, you know, it's like they already know they fucked up. They're already sad about, I had restart, you know, my sobriety days and things like that too. And I always, every time somebody says that, I was trying to be encouraging to them, like, okay, you know, it happened, man. Let me just move on. You're on. All right. Life starts over. You know, you're still here, right? That's what matters. Look at the positives. Just like you smell that page in a notebook. Hey, write something positive. Listen, you're still here, right? Okay, you made a mistake. We all make mistakes. Shit, know, there's nothing you can do about it. Beat yourself up or get up and go do something about it, you know? Andrew Drasen: Yeah, I mean, if you learn and you grow from it, doesn't, it can be framed as a bad thing or a good thing. It depends on what comes of it. And if any growth comes of it or not, you know, if you don't learn anything and you keep repeating the same mistakes, then, you know, then it's not a good thing, you know, but like one thing that I like that the NA Basic Tech says is a relapse can be the jarring experience that brings about a more rigorous form of recovery, you know, so can help us learn and get insight and see where we Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no. Andrew Drasen: failed, so we don't make that same mistake again. And like, like the tagline that I picked for a vision of hope media, it's everyone has something to recover from and like not talking about drugs and alcohol, was semi intentional, like in the workbook, ⁓ basically lets whoever is doing it, ⁓ kind identify what they need to heal from and what that healing looks like, because that it's going to look different from person to person. So, ⁓ you it's not kind of forcing one set of beliefs Peter: Yeah, definitely. Andrew Drasen: or one specific way of living on them, it's letting them identify and pick their own course. So, great. Peter: But what I like about the workbook though, it's not a cookie cutter thing. It fits everybody. You're not trying to put people in one box. You're giving more people than just people with drug addictions the option to do something with it. And I think that's great because you didn't just label yourself as one thing. You shot for everybody, which I think is great because it's including everybody in it versus trying to exclude people. Andrew Drasen: Well, and I'll tell you, you know, like kind of with the identity piece, like it, kind of went through that when I lost Caroline, you know, I had to relearn who I was and now what is my life going to look like now that she's not in it? And, you know, and ⁓ a lot that kind of had to go into that. that's. Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Drasen: you know, and like with grief, there's a few things that we can do with grief. We can either kind of let it scar over and let it manifest in different ways, or we can actually kind of learn and grow and heal from it, or we can try and run from it or numb from it, you know, and running from it and numbing from it, like that only gets you so far and usually tacks on to the problems. Peter: Yeah. Yeah, man, it's tough too and it's easier. Is it easier to talk about it all the time now? I'm sure at first it wasn't, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people that, you know, don't realize when it comes to grief, it's hard. You don't know what to say to most people, you know. So were people very, how did people approach you? Did you get a lot of people that did the wrong things versus the right things in your own opinion? Andrew Drasen: No, I mean, like immediately after a lot of people reached out and it helped. It helped stay connected and just kind of talk about it. you know, it a lot harder ⁓ to about, especially when it was fresh. mean, it's ⁓ been little bit of time now, but I mean, it's still not easy. You know, I mean, we've been together for five and a half years and, you know, I pictured spending the rest of my life with her and, Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Drasen: I mean, Christmas was hard a couple of days before that on December 22nd. That was her birthday. That was a heart day. You know, it just, still comes. just doesn't come ⁓ frequently. ⁓ it's more in like ⁓ you know, like when something triggers a thought or a memory of her, you know, like that's, that's when it'll kind of hit. Peter: Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm... Andrew Drasen: I feel like something like that isn't something you get over. It's something that you get through and it's gonna shape you. It's just how it shapes you. That's what's kind of up to us. Peter: So real quick on the subject of grief while we're on this, do you want to give some people advice? Give them some advice. Maybe say, hey, listen, this is what you can do for somebody that's grieving. Maybe something they haven't thought of since it's still fresh for you. Andrew Drasen: ⁓ I, so one thing that it was helpful, really, ⁓ my neighbor ended up bringing me a bunch of food and, know, because like when you're going through grief like that, you know, it can distract you and you can not take care of yourself. I mean, that's, that's a case for a lot of people. So otherwise just check in, you know, and don't. Peter: Yeah. Andrew Drasen: solutions just if you need to talk just know that I'm here and just show genuine compassion and empathy and just be there you know like don't don't let them isolate and grieve alone you know I mean you can't force them to go out like that but just make your presence known and know that that you care Peter: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that, you know, I mean, that's that's really great points, too, though. You you can't force it on people don't don't force it on people. You know, don't offer the solutions. I think it's another great one, too, because a lot of people ⁓ to want to offer solutions instead of just listen to what it is that you need and ask you, hey, what could what could it possibly be? Anything like I had a friend recently the two weeks, she lost her son to O.D. And it was the same thing. You know, what do you say? Like I'm never person short for words. I run this podcast. I've done 200 plus interviews in the first season. I am very little short of words, but when it came to that message, it was rough because it's like, what do you say to them? And I literally just sat there texted like 40 messages and I just kept deleting them. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it, I'm just going to say this. I just told her, said, hey, listen, I'm here if you need me, reach out, love you. That's it. Boom. Straight to the point. Because I was thinking of, I didn't know what to say. it's like, I know normally it's like, I don't really have the first answer to most questions, but that was just like, it was just hard because you're like. You don't want to overflow her with messages, but at the same time, she appreciate those messages coming in because people were so concerned about her. I found out about it, too, I reached out to him, learned the same thing. And then she had actually done an episode ⁓ I started listening to it. Let me tell you, it was the hardest thing you're listening to ever as you're listening to her go through it. And she's describing the whole moment the day she found him in her house. And I was like, no, no, no. I had to stop halfway through this. ⁓ I haven't finished it yet, but it was getting bad because it's like. She called 911 in this in the conversation she was having with somebody else and said that she got a prompt number. I'm like 911 has a prompt number. Oh, you got a prompt. I'm like what the fuck I'm like, I'm calling you for an emergency, bro. Like, you know, it's like and the rush emotions in that moment But for her to come out and talk about it nine days after the fact that happened It's just like I don't think I could have done it man Honestly, and the fact that you're even talking about it now I really appreciate you even bringing letting us talk with you about it a little bit because I know it's hard man, especially the holidays had to be rough, know, and hats off to you man, like, doing great man, I think she's looking down smiling on you, you know, and the fact that you're still pushing forward, I think that's what she'd want for you too. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, and I mean, you know, all we can do is just try and hold on to the good memories, you know. Peter: Exactly. Andrew Drasen: remember them in the light that ⁓ us love them. Because I feel like that's what grief is. ⁓ misplaced love. When we loved someone or something or some circumstance and then it's taken away, we don't know where to place that love anymore. And just knowing that that vessel that ⁓ loved is no longer here, it's tough. So that would be my biggest piece of advice is just stay connected and don't isolate. ⁓ Peter: second Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I agree man, you know, it's just it's hard when it comes to those things man And I feel for you and for my friend melissa too. She runs another podcast as well But like I said, man I don't think I would have the balls to do what she did nine days later to start talking about in great detail to us like no Hats off to her man. That's a badass on her own So do you have any plans for anything in the future though? Like any any new books that you're planning coming up? Are we just gonna kind of ride with it right now with this one? Andrew Drasen: Yeah, so I mean, I have the three out right now. Right now I'm in kind of full outreach mode, reaching out to indie bookstores and library consortiums and treatment centers. So that's kind of taken up my time at the moment, but I am, I'm also filming a virtual curriculum for school. It's S-K-O-O-L. It's ⁓ a learning and community platform. ⁓ Peter: Yeah ⁓ okay. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah, I got a school. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I love it. That's awesome. Andrew Drasen: Yep, so I'm filming the curriculum to offer it via school. I am working on my next book. It's pretty good underway. And then I also have kind of the bones for a fictional television series that I'm working on, which honestly, that has me kind of excited. I have to kind of pause myself because now isn't the time to work on that, but I'm eager for it. Peter: I love it, man. love it. Yeah, I have a school community too. Mine's the You Matter Society. ⁓ yeah, You Matter Society. But you know, I like it too. I love school for that reason. I offer a lot of different things in there and things like that for people. you know, I'm working on getting a collection of different things people are doing, like books and stuff. So I'll definitely add your workbook and your books into that grouping as well for people to check out too, because I think they're great resources as well. But that's awesome though. Do you know what the title of the next book is going to be? Andrew Drasen: so ⁓ I'm thinking it's going to be a vision beyond hope. Peter: Or is it just, we kinda still working on four minute right now? Okay. Okay. I like that. I like that. And then the TV series I'm kind of interested about too. So do you have a name for that one or you just kind of like something you're throwing together? Because I'm a TV guy. I love it. Andrew Drasen: I do have a name for it. It's called the symphony field. It's ⁓ basically about a society post money where money is no longer a thing. That's about much as I can give you right now. Peter: I love it though, I love it. Yeah, definitely have to look out for that for sure. So Andrew, let me ask you a question. I ask two people, I ask people the same question every time. And this one is, it's always a fun one first. So my first question for you is, that if you're meant to help had a song, what would you say that song would be? Andrew Drasen: Every little thing is gonna be alright by Bob Marley. Peter: I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Bob Marley, that's first time we've had Bob Marley on the show mentioned before. think earlier, I don't remember who he said earlier, but we've had Rage Against the Machine come up, Michael Jackson's Beat It came up, a bunch of other things like that too. What is it? One guy told me every, I can see clearly now the rain is gone. That was someone that had me laughing the hardest. I was like, oh my God, dude, I'm done with this question. Andrew Drasen: Okay. Peter: But that's, that's, know, and it's, it's so interesting though, because music is such a big part of everybody's life, especially now, man, you know, and it's always soothing. We always have an attachment to that and things like that as well. You know, so it was, it's interesting because someone asked me that question originally and then my answer, had two parts. Mine was the intro to Scott Pilgrim vs. The World for my anxiety. It was that constant guitar strumming in the, in the beginning song. And then my other one was ⁓ when I'm really depressed and down, it's a different kind of pain by cold. was that song that the guy had wrote for the one person that lost his mom, I think it was. One of the people had lost her mom or something. He did a song for one of the fans, which was really cool because it's so like, it kind of fits with where you're feeling at at that moment in that state of mind. but you know, sorry, I'm having a little trouble over here. Anyways. ⁓ Andrew Drasen: Yeah. Peter: So my next question for you and the reason I started this podcast is that if you could break the stigma about mental health, now you can do addiction as well. just anything that you see out there. Do you want people to stop believing? What would you say that one thing would be? Andrew Drasen: I mean, everybody hurts and human to display emotion. ⁓ ⁓ guess that's the biggest thing. mean, ⁓ men and feel bad and feel depressed shame and have ⁓ the same of emotion as ⁓ females have. maybe might be geared little bit but I'm just saying we're all living a human experience. Peter: Mm-hmm. Andrew Drasen: There's no shame in asking for help whenever you need it, you know We all need help at different times and there's no shame in asking for help Peter: No, I agree 100%. I think that's a great point. know, asking for help is it's hard for some people though, because what's the way the society has us thinking is that we as men, can't talk about these things, you know, we're not supposed to talk about them. But you know, with the suicide rates where they're at, it's like, well, we obviously need to start talking because the numbers going up, it's not going down. mean, 80 % of us are the make up suicides, you know, and things like that, too. And then I heard a thing on the radio the other day. that it was that high schoolers and college students are going up too. The numbers are just continue rising. yet again, we don't want to deal with this problem. Of course, know, and the most recent one is the Dallas Cowboys player that ended up taking his life, unfortunately, you know, and it's like my first thought was when I heard about it was that, OK, so what did you what were we doing for this young man if he was struggling because his girlfriend was on record quoted saying that he had a lot of mental health issues. OK, so he had issues. What were you doing to better help him? I mean, like, you know, it's. He's playing for America's team, so he has access to tons of things. Did you try to get him some help? Because I know that also on top that he was dealing with the loss of his mom and as you know, you're dealing grief right now. can see that's hard. You know, it's not one of those things that end in a year later. He'll be fine. It's one of those things that lasts for them forever. Depending on how close him and his mom were, you know, and maybe that's just me because I just started asking a lot of those questions. I was like, so what are we doing about this? And you know, the thing is that we heard nothing after that point. You haven't heard anything about anybody doing anything. It's like, OK, cool. Well, now it's your time to respond to NFL. What are you all doing about this? Are you guys trying? You need to do something for these guys that are being put on these high pedestals. But you know, their mental states are so bad that, you know, that these unfortunate acts are happening. You know, think about like the Junior Seahaw thing where he went, he went nuts because he had all those concussions and things like that. That is that what we need to happen again for something to happen? It shouldn't be, you know, at this point we should be worried about these guys health as well. Not only their health, but their mental health as well, you know, but so I challenged the Dallas Cowboys, by the way, I went on to you know, on there and started tagging him and stuff. and challenged him like, hey, listen, what are you guys doing about this now? What is your forward thinking now that this young man is gone at 24? What's our next step here to make sure these guys are better taken care of? Andrew Drasen: Yeah. And I mean, our overall health, it's all tied together, know, physical health, mental health, spiritual health, it's all tied. So, I mean, you know, for example, your mental health is off, you have anxiety, it causes increased blood pressure and, you know, just this whole range of, you know, neurological effects and... Peter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Andrew Drasen: If we neglect one area, it's going to throw everything off kilter. So I think we need to normalize talking about mental health and shame and depression and, you know, anxiety and these, these emotions that, you know, we feel we can't talk about. Peter: we do. and you know, and lot of addiction leads from that too, is people trying to medicate for these things, they're trying to make the voices go away and things like that, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And that's how a lot of addiction starts, you know, and I think a lot of people seem to tend to forget that too. It's just, it's something causing them to want to do these things, you know, it's not just because they want to do it. Sometimes they're trying to get away from something that's the same thing with alcohol use and all the other kind of stuff. And, you know, things like that as well, man. So, but Andrew. Andrew Drasen: Yep. Peter: We're gonna get ready to wrap up this episode of Peteford's Anxiety Man. First, I wanted to thank you for being here, but before we start signing off, can you tell me where to find you? Obviously, where's the book ready and available everywhere, I would assume? Andrew Drasen: Yeah, books available wherever books are sold. Also, ⁓ additional information can be found on the website, avisionofhokbook.com. ⁓ can email me at andrew at avisionofhokbook.com. Social's everywhere, pretty easy to find. Peter: He's also got the school too. He forgot to plug the school. He's got the school community as well. Andrew Drasen: Well, it's under development. It's under development. Peter: Well, you know what, Andrew, when you get that going, let me know, man. I'd love to put it in the description of the video for everybody to go check it out and things like that too, man, because I'm always here to support other people, what they're doing, man, for sure, definitely. You know, so for sure. So to keep us posted on the other book and on the TV show. And I'll guys, I'll keep you posted as soon as he lets me know about these things and let you all know, because I want to make sure we all go out there and support what he's doing, man. But I appreciate you coming and hanging out with me today, man. I really do. It's great having you. You're more than welcome to come back when that next book comes out. We can discuss that more and everything else like that as well. Andrew Drasen: Yeah, thanks for having me, Pete. It's been a pleasure. Peter: Definitely guys and with that being said we're wrap this episode of Pete first anxiety You know where to find me on pete for anxiety and x all the way down to tik tok I'm on Spotify all the way down to pandora radio and as always say cost nothing absolutely not to be kind to somebody one kind of act you can do to save someone's life or hell you're gonna make their day I'm Pete first anxiety saying I'm saying hey don't ask how your day is they say hey, how's your mental health?