Latest / The You Project / #2252 The Science of Dodgy Backs - Dr. Jeff Gross

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#2252 The Science of Dodgy Backs - Dr. Jeff Gross · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: G'day team. I hope you're bloody terrific. Before we get
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: underway today, I want to tell you about my new
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: life workshop. It's coming up November 8th at Deakin Uni
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  Speaker 1: in Melbourne. It's called Life on Purpose. And as the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: title suggests, we're going to explore living life on purpose.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And by that, I mean a life with intention and
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  Speaker 1: direction and passion and even strategy. And while we're at it,
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  Speaker 1: we'll also explore the idea of living in purpose. And
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: by that, I mean, living a life which aligns with
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  Speaker 1: our beliefs, goals and values. In other words, the things
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  Speaker 1: that matter most to us. It's been my experience and
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  Speaker 1: observation over the years that many people are living a
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  Speaker 1: somewhat unintentional and unconscious existence, kind of day-to-day doing what
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  Speaker 1: doesn't really work, what doesn't really make them happy and
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  Speaker 1: doesn't really produce the kind of results they want to
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  Speaker 1: see in the world. Kind of like a Groundhog Day existence,
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  Speaker 1: which makes it predictable and familiar, but not necessarily fulfilling
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  Speaker 1: or rewarding or joyful. And having worked with thousands of
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  Speaker 1: people over four decades, I'm fascinated with potential and possibilities,
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  Speaker 1: and of course, human behavior, all the stuff we're going
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  Speaker 1: to do a deep dive on. on November 8th at
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  Speaker 1: Melbourne's Deakin Uni. So I would love to see you
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  Speaker 1: there to book in or to learn more, just go
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  Speaker 1: to my website, craigharper.net and take a squiz-a-roonie.
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  Speaker 2: See you there.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Or not. And now, I'm with the show. Oh, g'day team.
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  Speaker 1: It's Harps and Dr.
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  Speaker 2: Jeff.
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  Speaker 1: Hope are bloody awesome. It's the You Project. It's, uh,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday here in the thriving metropolis. It's overcast. Nobody
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: needs a bloody weather report, but fuck it. I'm giving
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you one for free. What's the weather report in Las
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Vegas at this particular time, Doc?
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  Speaker 2: It's sunny and moderate. It's probably 75, 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
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  Speaker 2: You'll have to calculate that to the intelligent part of
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  Speaker 2: the world because here we can't seem to handle the
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  Speaker 2: international system.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing 780 Fahrenheit is in the ballpark of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: 20 to 23 Celsius, everybody, but that's me guessing in
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  Speaker 1: real time. You can look it up in your time
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  Speaker 1: and figure out how right or wrong I am. You
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: said something funny before we started, and I'm not throwing
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you under the bus because I don't think it's a
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  Speaker 1: state secret about hitting your head up against a wall,
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  Speaker 1: but even when you sort whatever out, it's okay because
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: there's always another wall to hit your head against.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Is that you? Is that a representation of your life
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  Speaker 1: or were you just speaking in general?
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  Speaker 2: It can be. I mean, listen, we all have challenges
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  Speaker 2: and obstacles and definition of insanity is, you know, doing
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  Speaker 2: the same thing and expecting a different result, right? So
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  Speaker 2: if you're... If you're banging your head against a wall,
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  Speaker 2: go try somewhere else. And I think I said something like,
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  Speaker 2: there's always a new wall to bang your head against. 100%.
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  Speaker 1: This might sound judgy, everybody. I don't mean it to.
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  Speaker 1: It's not a judgment. It's an observation based on 45 years. Fuck,
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  Speaker 1: I'm old. 18, I started this bullshit. 45 years of
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  Speaker 1: helping people change stuff. For the first 30 years, it
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  Speaker 1: was bullshit. purely or primarily physiological, but the last decade
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  Speaker 1: or two, it's been in the psychology, emotion, physiology, practicality, sociology, personal,
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  Speaker 1: professional space. I feel like a lot of people, no,
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  Speaker 1: I don't feel, I know a lot of people, Dr. Jeff,
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  Speaker 1: keep doing the thing that doesn't work, knowing that it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't work and not changing to the thing that does
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  Speaker 1: work because it seems overwhelming or terrifying or uncomfortable. So
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  Speaker 1: I'll keep doing this thing that isn't optimal because I'm
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  Speaker 1: used to it. Like the way of eating, you know,
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  Speaker 1: how many people want to be, say, change their body composition, fitter, healthier,
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  Speaker 1: less risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes. They want to
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  Speaker 1: be leaner. They want to look, feel, function different, but
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  Speaker 1: they continue to eat a diet, which they know is
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  Speaker 1: way less than optimal. Is that your experience? Like why
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  Speaker 1: the fuck do you think that so much we continue
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  Speaker 1: to do things and it's not through lack of knowledge?
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  Speaker 1: Like we know, and again, I'm not trying to be
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  Speaker 1: judgmental because some people have addictions that make it very difficult.
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  Speaker 1: I get that, but just in general life as well.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, that's, that's something that's so common, not
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  Speaker 2: just in my medical practice, but you know, with, with
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  Speaker 2: children and everything, right? Do you, you know, why do
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  Speaker 2: you keep behaving that way? You're not getting rewarded for it.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, you're getting the exact opposite. So they must
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  Speaker 2: be getting something deep and visceral and, and primitive from it.
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  Speaker 2: Some pleasure centers being, you know, pleasured somehow.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like we are maybe more than ever.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe not. Maybe I'm just more aware of it or
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  Speaker 1: it has more attention these days. but we're more about
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  Speaker 1: instant gratification than ever. Like I want pleasure in the
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  Speaker 1: next five seconds. I either want comfort or pleasure or familiarity.
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  Speaker 1: I want something that keeps me at all costs out
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  Speaker 1: of any form of discomfort. Oh yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you studied this in biology, right? We
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  Speaker 2: had the, the flatworms, the planarian worms, and they move
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  Speaker 2: away from the noxious stimulus and they move towards the comfort.
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  Speaker 2: So we're just no different than those worms.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the difference is if they move towards the noxious,
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  Speaker 1: it might fucking kill them, right?
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  Speaker 2: Right, but they seek the comfort, the pleasure, right? Noxious
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  Speaker 2: could be work. It could be... And it's work to
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  Speaker 2: eat right. It's work to be fit. It maybe wasn't 300,
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  Speaker 2: 400 years ago. There weren't choices.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. And I guess it's like I always think, like,
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  Speaker 1: for example, in Australia, I've shared this a few times. Apologies, listeners.
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  Speaker 1: But in Australia, the average active gym membership is about 15%.
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  Speaker 1: I might have even shared this with you, which means
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  Speaker 1: that about 15 out of 100 people for every 100
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  Speaker 1: members of a gym, current members, 85 of those current
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  Speaker 1: 100 don't go, either never go or rarely go. So
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  Speaker 1: gyms can literally oversell the shit out of memberships, knowing
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  Speaker 1: that if everyone turns up tonight for the Jazzercise class
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  Speaker 1: that you do on a Wednesday, they're fucked. Like they
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  Speaker 1: just couldn't literally deal with all of their members, but
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  Speaker 1: they know that most people don't come Most don't come regularly,
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  Speaker 1: if at all. So we understand the psychology of program adherence,
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  Speaker 1: exercise adherence, you know, healthy eating adherence. And so they
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  Speaker 1: can literally profit from that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, gym's a good business for that reason. They
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  Speaker 2: keep selling new memberships. It's like timeshares. People stop going.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea of it's not the same as the
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  Speaker 1: reality of it. Anyway, I wanted to talk to you
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  Speaker 1: and I said I'm not going to tell you, which
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  Speaker 1: I didn't before we went live, about something that you,
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  Speaker 1: it's not so much the area that you play in
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  Speaker 1: at the minute or in the last while, I think anyway,
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  Speaker 1: but you are a neurosurgeon, a spinal surgeon. You are
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  Speaker 1: all of those things. I was wondering, could we talk
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  Speaker 1: about backs today?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about it because, you know, stuff happens
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  Speaker 2: and we have new ideas and dodgy backs. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I have a big career on that. I still see
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  Speaker 2: a lot of second opinions. I see a lot of
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  Speaker 2: botched backs, which is sort of dodgy upon dodgy, I guess.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: You know, because our health care system is failing. And
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  Speaker 2: people aren't getting cared for the way they need to
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  Speaker 2: be cared for. I see a lot of that and
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  Speaker 2: I have to send them back and they get dismissed.
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  Speaker 2: You know, doctor egos keep them from doing the right
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  Speaker 2: thing a lot of the time. So we have we
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  Speaker 2: have new ideas on how to approach things. But it
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  Speaker 2: is just a little bit little sprinkle of an idea
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  Speaker 2: in a sea of mediocrity.
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  Speaker 1: All right. So I want to go through, I've got
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  Speaker 1: a bit of a list, right? I want to ask
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  Speaker 1: you what these things are. As much as I can,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to do stuff that is, I believe, like
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  Speaker 1: relatively common. So let's start with something really, well, not simple,
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  Speaker 1: something that's quite common and also varies in, levels i
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  Speaker 1: guess scoliosis what is scoliosis and what can we do
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  Speaker 1: about it and what can't we do about.
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  Speaker 2: It well scoliosis the word scoliosis means a curvature of
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  Speaker 2: the spine in a spot where it shouldn't be curved
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  Speaker 2: because we do have normal curves of the spine when
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  Speaker 2: you look from the side view but when you look
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  Speaker 2: from the front or back it should be straight your
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  Speaker 2: head should sit above your behind yes okay in fact
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  Speaker 2: you have a plumb line right down the middle of
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  Speaker 2: your behind that's for aligning your head okay so You
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  Speaker 2: need to use that line. If that is off, that's
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  Speaker 2: called a scoliosis. Most often, everyone has maybe a little
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  Speaker 2: bit of a scoliosis here or there, maybe a little
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  Speaker 2: bit in the upper back. And then they have the
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  Speaker 2: opposite curve in the lower back that compensates for that.
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  Speaker 2: We see a lot of that during development, childhood. And
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  Speaker 2: most scoliosis, see how I threw the plural in there?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you did there. Are....
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  Speaker 2: Children during the rapid growth phase. And this is called
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  Speaker 2: the adolescent, the idiopathic adolescent scoliosis. Idiopathic means we don't
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  Speaker 2: know what causes it. And they have that growth spurt
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  Speaker 2: and it really accentuates during that time. And it can
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  Speaker 2: be really bad. It could be so bad that they
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  Speaker 2: could need a surgery. So now we have with degeneration,
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  Speaker 2: if you have degeneration as you get older and it's
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  Speaker 2: on one side more than the other, you can develop
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  Speaker 2: a degenerative scoliosis. That doesn't usually progress significantly, although we
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  Speaker 2: can have pretty significant cases, but not common. Most scoliosis
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  Speaker 2: are these congenital or idiopathic adolescent developed.
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  Speaker 1: And they seem to be... I've got a friend, Tara.
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  Speaker 1: Shout out to Tara. And she's... Her hips... And where
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  Speaker 1: her shoulders are and where her hips are, you know,
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  Speaker 1: how they should, one should be on top of the other. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's like her shoulders are like about, oh, it seems
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  Speaker 1: like five centimetres to the left of her pelvis.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You know, like really quite, and she's had it forever.
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  Speaker 1: And it's still, she's in her mid-50s now. Very fit, very,
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  Speaker 1: very fit. In fact, she owns a chain of Pilates shoes.
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  Speaker 1: 55 Pilates gyms or something in Australia and obviously does
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  Speaker 1: Pilates all the time and trains all the time. But, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: if she didn't have the lifestyle and the habits she does,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know where she'd be.
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  Speaker 2: So, yeah, in a case like that, she's not fully compensated. She's,
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  Speaker 2: like you said, her shoulders are not over her hips.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: If she doesn't train the muscles of the core and
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  Speaker 2: the spine and the supporting axial structures up and down
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  Speaker 2: the midline of the body, the axis of the body,
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  Speaker 2: then she will, you know, continue to progress. As one
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  Speaker 2: of my favorite spine professors would say, deformity begets deformity.
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  Speaker 2: So the more you lean, comma, the more you lean.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Here's something that we all get, or I
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  Speaker 1: think we all get, or most of us get that
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  Speaker 1: we talk about, but maybe don't exactly know what we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about. Sciatica. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So sciatica is a generic old fashioned word that means
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  Speaker 2: I have pain in my butt that goes down the
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  Speaker 2: back of my thigh. It sometimes gets an expanded meaning.
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  Speaker 2: It could be more than that, but it's, Most sciatica
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  Speaker 2: refers to a medical term called radiculopathy, which is an irritated, pinched, bothered,
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  Speaker 2: buggered nerve in your lower back spine that, when it
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  Speaker 2: leaves the spine, contributes to and travels as part of
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  Speaker 2: the sciatic nerve. And you get symptoms in that posterior thigh. Posterior, folks,
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  Speaker 2: means the back of. posterior thigh and can go further
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  Speaker 2: down more specifically into certain toes, top part of the shin, foot,
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  Speaker 2: but the component in the back of the thigh before
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  Speaker 2: we had imaging was referred to as sciatica because we
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  Speaker 2: didn't always know where it's coming from. Most causes come
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  Speaker 2: from the spine, but some causes can come from involvement
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  Speaker 2: of the sciatic nerve itself, In what's called the piriformis
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  Speaker 2: muscle area, it can get injured tight and the sciatic
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  Speaker 2: nerve passes and can get trapped by the piriformis muscle
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  Speaker 2: called the piriformis syndrome. There could be other causes of
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  Speaker 2: sciatic nerve bother. So sciatica is this generic term and
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  Speaker 2: we all use it. But when a patient comes to
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  Speaker 2: the office and says, I have sciatica. Yeah, I learned
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  Speaker 2: that term from my grandmother, but I make them sit
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  Speaker 2: down and show me where everything bothers them and redefine.
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  Speaker 2: Their definition of sciatica.
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  Speaker 1: And so one of the things that people do now,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: or piriformis stretch is something. That is, if you're listening
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: to this and you want to give that a crack,
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  Speaker 1: it's hard to kind of explain that stretch verbally and
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  Speaker 1: then you get it exactly right. So maybe ask your
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  Speaker 1: trainer or your friend. who knows, but it's a good stretch.
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  Speaker 1: But they call neural stretching or neural stretches. And is
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  Speaker 1: that literally the idea is to, can we stretch a nerve?
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  Speaker 1: Is that a thing or is that a misnomer, that term?
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  Speaker 2: You can, as long as it's part of a musculoskeletal
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  Speaker 2: structure flexibility stretch. So you need to stretch the muscles
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  Speaker 2: that are in front of and behind the sciatic nerve.
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  Speaker 2: So The piriformis, you know, is the one on this side.
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  Speaker 2: And then the other hip rotator muscles called the gemelli
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  Speaker 2: are on the other side. So what happens is they
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  Speaker 2: get tight and they squish the nerve. So when you're stretching,
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  Speaker 2: you're stretching all those different things. In fact, there is
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  Speaker 2: one of the most basic tests in examining a person
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  Speaker 2: with this type of problem is to keep their legs
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  Speaker 2: straight and lift it up. It's called a straight leg
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  Speaker 2: raise test. And in doing so, you are stretching the
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  Speaker 2: sciatic nerve. And if it is trapped, bothered, irritated anywhere
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  Speaker 2: along its chain from the lumbar spine on down, you
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  Speaker 2: get a shooting pain down the back of the leg.
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  Speaker 2: And you get the sciatica that gets perturbed or exacerbated.
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  Speaker 2: And that is a confirmation of an irritated sciatic nerve.
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  Speaker 2: That is a sciatica sign on an exam.
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  Speaker 1: And so... what what's moving towards some kind of fix
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  Speaker 1: or solution what what can we.
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  Speaker 2: Do for that you have to know the root cause
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  Speaker 2: is it a disc problem in the lower back bothering
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  Speaker 2: one of the nerve roots causing radiculopathy is it is
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: it something is a piriformis problem it could be the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: stretches and therapy for that it could be for the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: lumbar spine depending on the imaging appearance of the disc
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: and confirming it's the cause of the problem could be
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: an epidural injection at that spot. It could be, you know,
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  Speaker 2: rare cases could be a surgical cleanup of the disc
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  Speaker 2: material on the nerve called a discectomy or micro discectomy. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Various approaches, but you got to know what's causing it.
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  Speaker 1: Speaking of discs. So I don't know how many of
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  Speaker 1: these are medical and how many are kind of lay terms,
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  Speaker 1: herniated disc, bulging disc, ruptured disc. These terms get used
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  Speaker 1: almost interchangeably. Enlighten us, oh wise one. Yep.
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  Speaker 2: So we have medical terminology published in a consensus. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, this is usually the radiologists have defined these
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  Speaker 2: terms more than anybody because of how they look on
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: an MRI, right? You can't see them on an X-ray.
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  Speaker 2: You can maybe see a little bit of them on
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: a CAT scan, but it really is an MRI thing.
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  Speaker 2: So as you age, the edges of the disc relax,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: just like the edge around your belly might relax. And
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: we call that a belly bulge. And the disc, if
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: it goes all the way around like that, it's called
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: a bulge. That's not a pathological condition. That is just...
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: That is just like loose skin that's a loose disc.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So what people often use the word bulge improperly is
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: we're talking about a structural derangement of the material of
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the disc by which some element of the disc is exiting.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: We call that the slipped disc, right? That is called
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a herniated disc, herniation. And herniation comes in different forms.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: If it's just through the outer layers of the disc,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: it's called a protrusion. If it blows through the ligament
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: holding that outer layer of the disc, it's called an extrusion.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And sometimes a fragment goes off by itself. We call
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that a free fragment or a sequestration. All other terms
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: don't fit. I mean, ruptured could be a protrusion. It
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: could be an extrusion. It could be a free fragment.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Rupture is sort of the physical blowing through of at
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  Speaker 2: least the outer layer of the disc. So it's at
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: least a protrusion.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And by the way, to have any form of herniation,
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  Speaker 2: there must be tearing in the outer fibers of the
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: disc called the annulus. And that's called an annular tear,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: an annular fissure. And maybe that's where that rupture term
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: comes from.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: If you and I are in a room and you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: are standing laterally to me and you are facing me
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: while I am looking forward, so you're looking at my
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: side profile, where should my head be sitting in relation
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to the rest of my body to be, you know,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: if I'm just standing and I'm looking at something at
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: my eye line level, where should my head be relative
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to my body? for good posture, for spinal health, for
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: neck health, all of that. I feel like we're the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: forward head generation. It's like a range of, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: we're the sit down generation. We're the hunch over our
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: fucking phones and laptops generation. You know, so we, we
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: know that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You go, go.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Your head should sit above your behind. I mean, it's,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: The skull sits above the pelvis. That's called sagittal balance,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: sagittal side view. So the side view balance is that
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: you have this sort of forward curvature of the neck.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not forward actually. It makes a C
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: shape if I'm standing on your left side. The mid
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: back makes the opposite curve and the low back makes
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: the C shape again. And if you add up all
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: those shape changes, the base of the skull should sit
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: exactly above the sacrum. Your head should be above your behind. So,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: but you're right. We have tech neck, we have forward
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: flexion and it's sitting in the chairs. We have the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: same loss of curvature in the neck that we have
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: in the lower back and we get out of balance
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: and then you have somewhat of a deformity And as
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: I said earlier, deformity begets deformity. It just gets worse.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. Are you a fan of, I know you
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and I are both sitting at the minute, but usually
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: we do these interviews jogging on the spot, both of us,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: but it's just the breathlessness that impacts the quality of
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the conversation. So, you know, very out of character. We've
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: both chosen to sit. Do you think stand-up workstations are
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: a legitimate tool to use?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I do. I think you need a variety of positions
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: and listen, you could sit. In fact, I'm not doing
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: a good job, but you probably are, but you know,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: if we sat and used our back muscles and not
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the back of our chair, we'd be doing a better
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: job and, you know, get up frequently and sit down,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: stand up, you know, these adjustable desks are quite good.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I think, I think, um, you.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Know, you change your position, you're moving your legs, you're
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: using your calves, your second heart when you stand. So
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's important.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, what's interesting is I have a fit ball,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: one of those round exercise ball things, and I do
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: not do it enough. I could bullshit you and tell
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you I use it every day for an hour. I don't.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But often it's downstairs in my gym. Often I'll bring it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Reasonably often I'll bring it up and I sit on
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: that for around an hour. Now, because it's round, because
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it's unstable, then I have to constantly stabilize myself on
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this unstable object on which I'm perched, which means every
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: minute of the hour I'm activating my core stabilizers and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: all the other stuff that needs to work, hip stabilizers, core, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: And then you get off that and you think, how
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: much don't I use that stuff normally? And the answer
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: is all day. It's so easy to just plonk in
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: a chair where everything's supported and taken care of in
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: inverted commas, meaning I don't need to hold myself up.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I can just slonk against this chair and it does
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the work for me. Yeah.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I completely agree. And I'm also guilty of not taking
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: advantage of that knowledge all the time. And I, I try,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I'm, when I try to get an
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: efficient workout in, I don't have a lot of time.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I will do my triceps pull downs on one leg. Right.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So that I'm using my core. Now I can't do
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: as much weight, but that's okay. Cause I'm using other
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: muscles and then I'll do another set on the other leg,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: you know, And I'll try to add something. It's like
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: doing Pilates where you're doing some core and some lower
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: extremities while you're doing the uppers. So I try those
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: things when I'm pressed for time, which helps me get
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: through my workout quicker.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: It is interesting when you sit on a ball back
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to that old chestnut, but you realize how much energy
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: it takes to sit in the right position constantly.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Then you realize how weak, or I do anyway. I'm like, how?
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm not out of shape. Like, I'm in the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: gym every day. I'm like, oh, my God. The average
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: 63-year-old core must be like potato soup. I'm like, how
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: do people, you know? Anyway, we need to start doing
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: more of that. But to your point of doing your
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: triceps on one leg, I tell people do– do your
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: chores that are possible on like wash the dishes on
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: one leg, like dry the dishes on one leg, try
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: and put some of the groceries away on one leg.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Just all of that stuff where, you know, my mom's 87.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: She had a really bad fall three weeks ago. She
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: ended up in the hospital for three days. She had
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: a brain bleed. She had a severe concussion, all the things.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And it was purely lack of balance. Now, admittedly, She's
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: 87 and so she gets a pass. But, you know,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: if you're 50 or older, well, any age, but particularly
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: around that half century mark and older, this is the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: exercise scientist, you absolutely should consciously be working on maintaining,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: if not improving, balance and stability and all of that
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: core strength. Because it just falls away exponentially if you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: don't consciously preserve it.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. And, you know, we see in America
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: on weekends, the emergency rooms commonly have the husbands doing
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: what's called the honey-do list. Do you have a honey-do
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: list there? In Australia.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It's the list that their wives make for them to accomplish.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Here are all the chores I need you to do
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: around the house on the weekend. Okay. So they're often
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: seen to have fallen out of a ladder, you know,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: maybe changing a light bulb or something. Why? They just,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: they sit at a desk. They don't work on balance.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: And it is a neurologic neuromuscular skill that you have
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to take care of. And you have to maintain. So
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I do agree with you balance, you know, like your mom,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: you know, older people are at risk. They have lower
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: bone density. We can talk, we can talk about that, but, uh,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and they're at risk for fracture and that fracture can
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: be the end of them. So you, you have, and
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: why did they fall? Well, we're not always sure why
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: they stumble or something, but if they had good balance,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: they might've been able to catch themselves.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. Here's a test for you, everybody. I do this
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: every day. And when I can't do this, I know
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I'm in trouble, is put your socks on standing up.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: So stand on one foot, stand on your left foot,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: put on your right sock, stand on your right foot,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: put on your left sock. And if you can do that,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: that's not conclusive, but that's definitely a good sign because
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: not many people, well, definitely people over 50 really struggle
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: to do that. So Maybe do it standing next to
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: your bed or something so that if you overbalance, you
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: can fall in the right place. But, yeah, that's not
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a bad one to think about. I was thinking about also, Doc,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: when I was young, back when Jesus and the apostles
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: were around, I used to primarily, like in the gym,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: all we young buffet bodybuilders cared about was, you know, Chest, back, shoulders, arms,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: big quads, arse and hamstrings were neglected. They'd get trained,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: but not as much. As long as you had a
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: big sweep in your quad, as long as you had,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: you know, bowling ball, and you had a big, thick
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: tortoiseshell V back, right? But what most of us didn't do,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: was train our lower back comparably to our upper back.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: So the stronger that your lats and rhomboids and all
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that kind of everything in that space would get, you
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: just created a bigger, you know, we would train our
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: lower back back but it was so superficial compared to
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: all the stuff that makes you look good right because
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: nobody looks at someone's lower back and goes oh that
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: what a fucking amazing lower back oh wow i've never
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: seen like those i.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: I agree with that i think that because I see
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: so many low back issues that a lot of these
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: patients come in and they may be in great shape,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: but they don't have any lower back, paraspinal muscles, pillars. And,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it makes sense if you want
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: to have a strong body, you're going to get into
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: weightlifting or something. You got to build the trunk before
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: you build the branches. Otherwise your tree gets top heavy.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: So you got, you got to build the trunk. So
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: build what we call the axial skeleton first, the spine,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the core, maybe, maybe shoulders and chest before you work
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: on the show muscles, the biceps and what have you.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yes. What do you think about It's not controversial, but
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I know that most personal trainers in Australia do not
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: do this and whether or not they don't do it
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: because they don't think about it or they're scared of
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: how to do it. You see very, very little neck
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: training in gyms and we seem to have you know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: this SCM, sternocleidomastoid, everybody, this overdevelopment of this muscle. So
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: neck flexors strong, neck extensors weak, which is not the
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: totality of the head issue, but where, you know, we
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: have this often quite big muscular buff head who's got
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a neck like a 12-year-old girl because he doesn't train it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that training?
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of it. We see a lot
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: of bowling balls on a toothpick and we have to.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: So it's in this day and age, like you said,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: with the forward flexion. we need to build the extensor muscles,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: the muscles that pull the head back and give you
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the corrective posture. I kind of call it the antidote
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: because I have people come in and say, oh, doc,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all the training and all the directions. Like,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: don't worry about the forward direction. You're overdeveloped in the
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: forward direction.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: We need to train the backwards direction, maybe some of
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: the lateral side to side, the twisting muscles, but really,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: you know, at your desk, you know, put your hands
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: behind your head and and do 10 really forceful pushes
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: into your hand isometrically for 10 seconds each. Reactivate those
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: muscles behind your neck, because that's the same with the
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: lower back. We like to do supermans, we call them.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: You lie on your belly and get all your limbs
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: off the ground at the same time, like you're trying
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: to balance on your belly.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: That is hard. So Dr. Jeff's talking about everybody is,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: so you're prone on the floor. make sure you have
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: a towel under your face. Otherwise you're sucking up who
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: knows what. If you're on the gym floor, good luck.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: What's it called? That thing that you get on the
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: jujitsu mats that everyone gets. What is that called?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Probably some kind of fungus. Oh yeah.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: All the jujitsu guys get it. I can't remember. Someone
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: will send me a message.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Anyway.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So on the floor and try and lift your
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: hands and your, hands and arms and legs and feet
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: and face off the ground. Yeah.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Get your face off the ground.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: That is so hard. That is.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I instruct people to do that. And I tell them,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: start with five seconds. I'm like, what? I'm like, yeah,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: good luck. And work up to 10 seconds.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: At a time.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Guys are... Men are typically worse at it.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Interesting.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Because I think... I don't know that the, yeah, all
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: that forward muscle mass, all that front facing muscle mass,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: you know, those tight pecs, like the tight pecs, the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: weak kind of back. So we have a hyperdeveloped front
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: because we look at ourselves from front on all the time.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: So we overtrain the front and undertrain the back. And
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: then you get on the floor and you're like a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: fucking bug that's just been sprayed with something and you
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: can't function.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Completely agree. And so these these are the kind
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: of basic exercises I've given people my entire career. They've
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: some of these people have gone to a therapist. You
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: call them physios, physical therapists on our side. And they
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: they come back and haven't been instructed in those exercises.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: They're busy doing, you know.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: You know, quite a bit.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: And it's okay.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I get it. And the posterior chain tightness is part
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: of it. You got to loosen up the buttocks and
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: the thighs, especially in the guys. I agree.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So flexibility is a part of it too.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: This is digressing a weenie bit from your stuff, but
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: muscle cramps and spasms. And is that a nutrient problem?
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Or can that be.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: A training issue? It could be electrolytes. It could be,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: you know, minerals like magnesium is a common one. Low
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: magnesium will do that too. It can be neurological, like
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: you have an irritated nerve and it causes your muscle
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: to cramp. It can be blood flow related, you know,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: not inadequate blood flow. And then some are just unknown, right?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: You wake up in the middle of the night with
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: that calf and you have plenty of magnesium and electrolytes
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: and your nerves are fine and just maybe you over-trained
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: it or something. So sometimes we just never know.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Idiopathic cramping, we'll call that.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Idiopathic.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. We'll just push that out of
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the medical nest. All right. So another thing I see,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: and this may be, I don't know if it's just
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: what I see or it's what it is. It seems
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: that more women than men have that kind of anterior
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: pelvic tilt lordosis, like very, very tight hip flexors. And
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: so the front of their pelvis, everyone, is tilted forward
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: and down a bit. So they have this kind of
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: lordotic thing going on in the back. Is that general
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: or is that? Do you think that's more women than
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: men or no difference?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's something that I see commonly in anyone
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: with back trouble, that their pelvic tilt is off. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I think we get part of that from sitting in
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: the chair and not activating our lumbar spine. We've got
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: to sit up and use those muscles. So anyone listening
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: to this podcast, if you're not watching it or if
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: you're watching it, if you're sitting, go ahead and like fold,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: melt into the chair, let your lumbar spine conform to
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: the chair. And you can feel it's not active. But
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: when you sit up and take your back off the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: chair and you try to achieve a posture your mother
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: would be proud of, you can feel that lumbar spine
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: muscles turn on, activate, and go into a better positioning.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: So that actually tilted your hip position, right?
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So if your low back is out, your pelvis tilt
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: is probably compensating or trying to compensate, which throws it off.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: One problem begets another.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: When people say their back is out, you know, so
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: we go to, and I'm not asking for your opinion
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: on chiros or osteos or physios, but the idea of going, oh,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I've got to go and get my back put in.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: My back's out. I've got to get it put in.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: What's actually happening? Is literally a vertebrae. What's that?
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: I have no idea.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I can tell you. Does that mean a vertebrae has
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: shifted out of alignment with the rest of the spine
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: or something else? Sounds a bit fucking bullshitty.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. If a vertebra is actually out of place,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: that's a significant painful condition called spondylolisthesis.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Or spondylolisthesis. There's another pronunciation where the bones are actually
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: out of place and that can really wrench on the
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: nerves and the spinal cord, depending on what part of
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the spine. But the, you know, I have patients come
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: in and say, I've had back trouble on and off
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: my adult life and my back goes out. And when
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: it goes out, I can't get off the couch and
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: I need help. And what they mean is out is
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like out of service, out of operation. And it causes
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: back pain. They usually get stuck in a flex position,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: can't stand up straight all the way. And it's usually
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: a discogenic problem. There's something that a disc has protruded
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: a bit and. And I think what happens is they
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: over time that settles back in and they can then
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: go about their ways. If a chiropractor or osteopath or
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: someone can manipulate them and help that disc get back
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: into place theoretically, hypothetically, then maybe they put it back in.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: um i think that is a concept they like to
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: share and i'm sure there are there are times where
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: that happens we know that old school traction yes can
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: can causes a benefit we call you ready for this
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: word Yes. Ligamentotaxis. And what it does is it tightens
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: up the ligaments and then they tighten and anything in
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: between the ligaments, including discs, can maybe get kind of
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: nudged back into position. And maybe some of these manipulating
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: clinicians are doing a form of ligamentotaxis. So traction, hanging
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: upside down, cervical traction over the door devices, pump up
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: traction for the neck at home where you you know,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: you make yourself a little bit taller, like certain African
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: tribes do with those metal rings and things. So that,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: that is, uh, that's a form of ligamenta taxis that
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: can help organize the position of a, of a disc
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that might be partially protruded. Wow.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: That neck traction scares the fuck out of me, but, uh,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I used to have an inversion table, Doc. You know
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: what they are?
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we're talking about. That is a form
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: of neck traction with gravity and the weight of your head.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Of course, you have to be there a bit in
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: time to let the neck muscles relax. Otherwise, your neck
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: muscles are like, I don't want my head to fall off,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: which it won't, of course.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Yes. I don't know if this is legit, but A
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: lot of people say that, which seems counterintuitive to me,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: but both of my shoulders are a bit dodgy, which
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I won't bore everyone with what that's about, but a
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: million years of doing dysfunctional training is probably part of it.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: But hanging, which would seem like if you've got injured
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: or sore or problematic shoulders would not be a great idea,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: actually body weight hanging. is actually quite or can be
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: quite helpful. And I've found that to be true, which
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: I thought this is a dumb idea that seems to
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: not make sense to stress a shoulder that's already stressed.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're activating certain muscles when you hang that support
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: the shoulder. And I think, you know, the shoulder is hanging, right?
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: The arm is hanging down and there's this downward movement
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: force and you almost the the the alternative the antidote
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: is is to sort of hang and have it kind
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: of reposition the ball and socket a bit work on
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: the muscles in the opposite direction from what you're used
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: to the opposite of of holding a bucket of weight
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: in that arm yeah you know it's sort of the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: opposite so yeah uh i i do i do see
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: unless you have a massive tear yeah liberum or something
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: It's probably labrum, right, because it's not a rotator-dependent mechanism.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it seemed to work for me. I was
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: going to say something else. It slipped my mind. I'll
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: come back to it. And so the idea of people
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: getting into the gym and perhaps– proactively rather than reactively
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: training the bits of their body that are more likely
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: to break in inverted commas before they break you know
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: so training our lower back training our glutes training our
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: hamstrings training our neck all of these things which are
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: you know often overlooked either completely or to an extent
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: i mean hamstrings probably get a bit of attention and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: glutes but it's not the worst idea to you know
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: while you're relatively functional because we i think most people
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: have muscular imbalances where one area is much stronger relatively
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: than another area so when you do get injured uh
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it's probably going to be that like in my example
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: i've had not for the last five years touch wood
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: because i've took a long time but i'm a bit
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: smarter uh Yeah, lower back injuries where it's just so debilitating.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: So maybe just jumping in and training all of that
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: stuff to try to reduce those imbalances, not the worst idea?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Not at all.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Prevention, ounce of prevention. How does it go? So it
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: is worth a pound of cure.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Less money in the bank for you. I think that's
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: what this means.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: You're all about the people, so you don't care.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: It doesn't. No, listen, this doctoring is not for moneymaking.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So that's not why we're here. Um, the, you know, you,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: you got to develop a plastic widget or something or
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: AI if you want to make money.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: But the, um, listen, a lot of people listening, they're
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: just not going to be able to make it.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: To the gym. So you can do it, do it
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: around the house, you know, uh, put on a weighted
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: vest when you're doing your doors or, you know, when
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: we walk the dog, uh, I take a kettlebell with
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: me and I, I'll swing it around and do some
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: different things and do some arms if I haven't been
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: to the gym in a day or two. And just
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: don't hit your wife with it. She always worries it's
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: not going to be hit. But that, you know, 20
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: minutes of carrying that thing around.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: You know, is something, you know, do something. Take the
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: stairs instead of the elevator or you call them lifts
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: over there. You know, little things like that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I've got two weight vests. One holds 30 kilos, which
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: is 66 pounds, which is quite usable and wearable for me.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: It's still heavy though, right? It's heavy. I'm not walking
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: 10 miles in it. But I've got another one, which
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: is 65Ks, so 143 pounds.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've only used it twice.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: There's nothing like that.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, but it's, I mean, I would not recommend,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: unless you're a special operator or a freak of nature
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: or an Olympic athlete, I wouldn't recommend anyone use it.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Even just the weight on your body, it feels like
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: it's fucking up your back. It's so heavy, right?
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: You're carrying a person. You're carrying a person in a vest.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I have from where I am, if I walk around
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: my immediate block, residential block, it's 800 meters. And so
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: one day, the funny thing is walking with it is
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: really hard. Trying to get the vest on when you've
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: literally got 70 pounds front, 70 pounds back, and trying
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: to get the back like, Anyway, that is harder than
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the actual walking. But I walked out my side gate.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: It was the first time I'd ever worn it. And
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: I went, I'm going to walk the block, which is
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: 800 metres. And I got about 600 metres. And I thought,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I can actually get home. I
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: was in so much, everything was in pain. Everything was
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: in pain. My heart rate was 938. my blood pressure
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: was probably similar and yeah, I, and then you're so
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: fucking exhausted. You get home, you can't get it off.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: So it's not like you can just take it off.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: So I laid on my kitchen bench. So all that
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: weight is on the bench and, And then I had
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: to somehow dislocate both my shoulders and get the back off.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: And ladies and gentlemen, that's how you get out of
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: a straitjacket.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's somebody who's allegedly educated in exercise science.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a fucking idiot. And I've used it
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: once again. I'm like, no, it's just too heavy. It's
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: just too heavy.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, Doc, it's always good to chat with you. Appreciate it.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: No, I'm kidding.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Last question. No, it is. Last question, which is the
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: one I forgot, which I'm now recalling. In the old days,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: you hurt your back. Okay, go home and rest and
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: do fuck all. That's not the advice now, is it?
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Well, if you are in amazingly acute pain, yeah, maybe
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: you do go home and lay down. That's all you
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: can do. But no, as soon as you can get
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: moving and loosened up and build on that, the better. Movement,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: it begets movement. And I think you got to activate
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: the muscles and start to stretch the ligaments and things.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: And I agree with you. That's old fashioned.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, we'll actually do it this time. Thanks
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us yet again. Where can people
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: connect with you and find you online?
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: I love, love being here. Thank you for having me.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Next time, let's do a show called Dodgy Backs. I
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: think it's time. And then we'll do one.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: On dementia and cognitive capacity.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: And I remember that word because we don't use the
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: word dodgy here. So it stuck with me. But I'm
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: at re-celebrate. R-E-C-E-L-L-E-B-R-A-T-E. Follow us on Instagram at recelebrate or
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: check out our website, recelebrate.com, LinkedIn, YouTube, all the places,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: all the interwebs. You'll find recelebrate. That's what we do here.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: All the interwebs. All right, we'll say goodbye off air,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: but for the minute, thanks, Doc.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you.