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From Self-Doubt to “You Belong” · The Lawtino™

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Latino Podcast, where we amplify the voices of Latino professionals, entrepreneurs, and leaders coming together to educate, inspire, and connect across one of the most dynamic binational regions in the world.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: Bicultural, premium, powerful.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: Hey, Sean Gomez.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Welcome uh to our latest episode of the Latino.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: This is our third in a special series, the HMBA series.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: We are here in Washington, D.C.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: at the Hispanic National Bar Association Conference, annual conference.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: We're here to take in and get to know uh all these amazing Hispanic lawyers and leaders and uh great people.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: We've had a great time here so far.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: And so um this episode, as always, is brought to you by your title sponsor, Shane, the Gomez Trial Attorneys.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are a national consumer rights law firm uh with our primary offices in California and Mexico.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh we are bi-national.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: That is, we have uh offices and presence both in the United States and Mexico.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: We are bicultural.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: We deliver the very highest legal representation seamlessly in English and Spanish with cultural sensitivity, and we are best in class.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: We believe we're the best lawyers that do what we do.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: What we do, we represent consumers and personal injury, employment, civil rights, and mass torch actions all across the country.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: And so um we are here today with a very special guest.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: And the cool thing is we're meeting uh great people from all over the country.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: She comes to us from Milwaukee uh with uh footsteps in Chicago across the way.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh but to introduce her, we're gonna have my co my uh my co-host uh as always uh David Arigin.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Who do we have with us today, sir?
1:50
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, John.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: So we have a special person, you know, very involved with HMBA.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: What I was thinking, like, who should we have on the podcast?
1:58
SPEAKER_02: I started looking at the HMBA page, and then April Toy, who's here, uh, gracefully agreed to be on it.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: She is the former VP of Division Sections and Committees with HNBA.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I can probably assure you that she got great stories about HNBA.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: April, welcome.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: We want to hear about you, your involvement, your background.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being here.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit about April.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Like, where'd you grow up?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: How'd you decide to be a lawyer, that kind of thing?
2:28
SPEAKER_00: So um I grew up on a farm in Northern California.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was a town of about 6,000 people, so very rural.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I frankly never imagined that I would go to law school because you know, people like me who grew up where I grew up, we just we don't do that.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And so I did actually have somewhat of a rocky um path to law school.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Um that's the best path.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: So I actually um was put on academic probation a couple of times.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Um in my 40s, I was diagnosed with ADHD, um, which makes a lot of a lot of that, you know, sort of um early turbulence make sense.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Um I obviously didn't have um medication, I didn't have um accommodations, and I just had a real tough time focusing on things that didn't interest me.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Once I got past general ed, I found literature and I was just enthralled.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And um then I was able to get really good grades and at that point I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Um I realized quite quickly I couldn't get much of a job with an English literature degree, um, not something that would satisfy me.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't interested in teaching, which would be the obvious next step.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: And so one of my girlfriends she suggested that maybe I should take the LSAT and try law school with her.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: And at first I at first I sort of I wasn't really keen on the idea because, you know, I just had all these preconceptions about what paths were available to me.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and then she said one thing that changed my mind.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: She said, listen, if you get your master's in literature, you will have to take the GRE, which has a math section.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: The LSAT does not have a math section, and that was it.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: You were sold on that.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: You were sold on it.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: You don't like math.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't like math.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: I was promised there'd be no math, but sometimes there's a little math.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: Think about that.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Think about that woman and how she changed your life.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Like she just goes, hey, what about the LSAT?
4:36
SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Well, I don't know.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And she's like, There's no math, and now you're a lawyer.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: I was so uncomfortable about doing a math test that I would rather do the unless uncomfortable thing of going to law school and pushing myself beyond the boundaries that um I had set for myself.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: So did you have a little time between college and law school?
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Did you like do any kind of work in between?
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I didn't do any paid work, but I was living in San Francisco at the time.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And so um because I I did kind of decide to do the law school thing a little bit late.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: So I did have that one year.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And what I did was I volunteered at the San Francisco Tenants Union, which is a if if any of you have ever been to San Francisco, lived in San Francisco, there's a huge housing shortage and housing is overpriced and everyday people cannot get into housing.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, the tenants union was created back in the 70s to address that and stabilize rent prices.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And so there's a special board at the city.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: And if a tenant, for instance, gets a decrease in services, so their washer breaks, um, with the low rent, the the landlord may not be incentivized to fix that washer because they're getting nothing for rent.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, what the tenant can do then to to counteract that is go to the rent board and uh submit a complaint.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: And if the rent board finds that there was a decrease in services, the rent board will decrease the rent.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I did that as sort of like an advocate, counseling people.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: I went and represented somebody at a hearing just to get a flavor for you know what I would be encountering in the law.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was a very valuable experience.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've been talking to some of the guests, and we've been talking about having like real life experience before being a lawyer and how that sort of like shapes your ability to represent people afterwards, right?
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Would you say that that's something that actually shaped your career?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, it it um got me used to talking to people, it got me used to thinking outside the box, it got me used to like looking at rules and applying them to facts.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: So it was super helpful.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: And so then you end up um, as I understand it, in Wisconsin.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how'd that happen?
6:51
SPEAKER_00: I got a scholarship to go to law school there.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: At Marquette or the University of Wisconsin.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, very good.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: Congratulations.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Since I was a country girl who didn't come from much, I was like, if you're gonna pay me to go, I'll move anywhere.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: And so um talk to us about that transition from you know Northern California to uh Milwaukee.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: So I would say probably the the most um there were two really hard things, but the the biggest shock was when I, my first day um in Wisconsin and I went to a coffee shop, and then this woman started talking with the Wisconsin accent, and I was like, whoa, what is that?
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, it's it's a it's a very Can you imitate it?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Are you good at imitating it?
7:42
SPEAKER_01: No, because it sounds funny.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Like how they can how do they talk?
7:46
SPEAKER_01: I've heard it about it, but a little nasally.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like instead of bag, they say bag.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, okay, okay.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: But you know, they're my people, so I I love the accent.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I was very surprised.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that there was a Midwest accent.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, the hardest thing for me was the winters.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: The winters are brutal.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Very and you know, it's it's more so than an inconvenience, like it really, it really um harms your mental health.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, that was hard to get used to, but the people are great, um, kind, you know, it it feels very much authentic.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I really did find that to be beautiful.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And did you stay in Milwaukee to begin your legal career?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: I did, I did because I didn't have to take a bar if I stayed there.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: So if you graduate from from UW or Marquette or what is it like an accredited law school there, you're automatically in?
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so if there's two law schools in Wisconsin, so if you graduate from one of them, the theory is they've taught you enough about Wisconsin law, they don't need to make you go through yet another test.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: And so um That's a good thing.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you just the stay-at-home policy, you know.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, and that's really what the purpose behind it is is to prevent brain drain because Marquette and UW are very good schools.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Very good schools.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but you know, like uh especially the young folks, maybe they don't want to stay in Wisconsin.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: They want to go to the big city.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Want to go to Chicago, make a bunch of cash.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Like some people we know that we're gonna talk about here in a little bit.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: And so uh so talk to us about your kind of legal career.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, you get out, you're member of the bar, boom, start practicing right away.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: What has your legal practice been like?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: So, my legal practice has always been litigation.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I've uh I've evolved over the years, um, but I didn't want to be a litigator when I started.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: I actually graduated in 2010, which was right at the height of the Great Recession.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And litigation was the last thing I thought that I was cut out for because, you know, I'm nice and bubbly.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I thought, you know, there's no way that's gonna work in litigation.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And actually it's worked out really well for me because I'm not a table pounder.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I use charm, I use logic, I use storytelling because that's you know, our culture, we're storytellers.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's how I connect with a judge, that's how I connect with a jury, is rather than being angry, I just tell them the story and I think about like, okay, what's the start, middle, and finish?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Because I know my case, right?
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the jury doesn't know my case.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And I always try and think, like, okay, if I'm just showing up to the movie, how do I tell the story of you know my client?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh so yeah, I I I apologize to answer your question.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Um I got into litigation sort of as a whim, sort of like the way I went to law school, sort of the way everything happens in my life, right?
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm really happy that I did because I would have never put myself here.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think that I've really excelled in what I do.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: Congratulations to you.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And so um I have a question for you, because we have so many different um listeners, um, you know, from so many different, you know, parts of our Latino Hispanic communities, you know, and to be here is cool because you meet people from different places.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Me and David both have roots in Mexico.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: We learned that your mom originally uh came from El Salvador.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: She did.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: And did did not, like many uh people that came from that country, did not have a pleasant experience there.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And so, like growing up, uh, did you guys speak Spanish?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Did she ever talk about El Salvador?
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Was it all suppressed?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: So um, El Salvador, I got the stories that were the stories that resonated with her as a child because she came here at 16.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I you know, teenager, but still a child.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'm actually I'm bi-ethnic.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: My father is Caucasian.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: We didn't speak Spanish in the house because um because he doesn't understand it.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: But my um my abuela, she only speaks Spanish, or she only spoke Spanish.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: She died recently.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Sorry for that.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: She was she was my person.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: She was really, really um she was a big personality, and she was very hard-shelled, and you know, like many people had to be in order to survive um her upbringing.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: But for whatever reason, there was something about me, not my sister, not my mom, not anyone in my family, but there was something about me that she absolutely adored.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: And I always felt sort of out of place in my family.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm quite different than everybody, and so having her just be that person to say, you know, you are um you're my favorite, it really did a lot for me.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh so you know, I I I would say I get most of my stories about El Salvador for my grandmother.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, so here you are uh at now, somehow you find your way.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: We're here at the Hispanic National Bar Association.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: We know that you've had a very um, you know, important role in that organization.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: How did you first get involved with this group?
13:17
SPEAKER_01: What's it done for you?
13:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, what would you tell others?
13:20
SPEAKER_00: So I the HMBA is um, you know, everyone says it's family.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And you know I keep hearing that from HMBA familia from all of our guests as well.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and it it really is, you know, we are all working towards a goal, we're all professionals, um, but we're also there for each other, you know.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh there are conversations that happen in these small groups about, you know, struggles, um, getting ahead, things that have happened to us.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh we bounce ideas off of each other.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have um a friend uh who is applying for a judgeship right now.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: And hey, you know what?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: I need a letter of recommendation.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Could you do that for me?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: I dropped everything, got it out to her right away.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's just uh it's a group of folks who recognize that making it in the legal profession is not as easy for us, and we are there to support each other, and I think that that is a beautiful thing.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: I've never had such community um until I came to the HMBA.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: And how did you first learn about it?
14:30
SPEAKER_00: I uh I was my law school.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sponsored us to go as a group of an HMBA conference, I think out in like Miami.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: And so that was that's a really good sponsorship.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you get uh go to Miami as a law student.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Milwaukee.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: That's why I keep people keep telling people in saying, Hey, well, you know what?
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Look at HMBA because they sponsor your conferences, they pay for everything.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: And then you get to meet like people like you, right?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And so um we were all in like one room.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: It was like three boys and me.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Aye, aye, aye, aye, aye.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: But still, you came back.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I came back.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: I came back.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: I took a little time off when I was learning to practice.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: It was a really hard time for me.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was uh it was a really hard time for me.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: I struggled with it.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: So I always like to mentor first year attorneys and just let them know, you know, the first year is gonna be hard.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna feel like you fail all the time.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, stick with it and you'll be really happy you did.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: I I have um I remember, you know, my first several years of practice.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: I was at a very large firm, Latin Wa Watkins.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I worked really crazy hard, but I always felt like I was on the precipice of some explosive debacle and failure, you know, like because you know you don't really know what you don't know, and you got five different people telling you what to do.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Trying to figure it out.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: I think I think law, um, and I would echo what you said, like it just gets better and more satisfying as life goes on, and you kind of figure things out, right?
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Right, and then you can get to the fun stuff, yeah, right after you learn all things.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Like telling your stories.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Telling your stories.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: That's what I mean.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I sit down to write a brief and I'm like really excited about it.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, because like I'm like, oh, okay, how am I gonna spin this?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: And um, what am I gonna say about this?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And how can I make like, you know, what facts am I gonna include in the brief that maybe aren't super relevant to my issue, but that's gonna make my the judge like like my client.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's all about connecting and getting creative.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's part of the you know, part of the job.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: That's something that I really, really enjoy.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: And like, for example, at the firm were like we're troll attorneys, right?
16:39
SPEAKER_02: So we have our internal trial academy.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: And I guess one of the things that we are thought at the academy is to how do you connect with people?
16:45
SPEAKER_02: How do you get creative?
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh, how do you get like all this evidence in?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's all about like you know, getting creative, like it's a little trippy, which I actually enjoy.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's uh it's a cool experience.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: So talk about I know you're the outgoing vice president of what is it, divisions and sections?
17:03
SPEAKER_02: BP of divisions, sections, and committees.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: That sounds like a big responsibility.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: So, what are the opportunities available for people to participate?
17:11
SPEAKER_00: So, um, you know, I would actually say if you're new to the HMBA, try to get involved in a division section or committee.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Um like what would we do?
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Like we're a couple like trial lawyers from California.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: I I, you know, own the firm and manage it.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: David does, he's in charge of our cross-border kind of practice and uh referral relationships.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, and we're plaintiff's lawyers, so like what could we do?
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Like what committee would we be in or division?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'd say uh you could go into litigation, um, or and I'm trying to think, I don't, yeah, I would say like litigation.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I mean it's um that would be natural place for us.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I believe so.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, I mean, there's uh and I think uh we have like criminal civil law or civil rights.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, there's a couple of yeah, there's a couple of different areas that you could go into.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Um but also the other opportunity is to so for division sections and committees, those are by appointment.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: So you would need to express your interest um to the incoming president.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: The person taking, oh, the new president.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: So do we have that person on?
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh we have the current president and then Alejandro, our second guest, is actually connecting us with the incoming president.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, okay.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so you would do you would reach out and say, hey, listen, you know, like um I'm a legal malpractice attorney and I'm really interested in the ethics section.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Um could I be involved in that?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: The other way to go about it is to um be a deputy for any one of the board members.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: So for instance, as division sections and committees, I um had two deputies who would help me with the position because that's cool.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we all have full-time jobs, and sometimes I can't get to something.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: So I would have somebody else step in and um handle it for me.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: By the way, you were great at responding to me.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: It was like a super prompt response on confirming her attendance to our podcast.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, of course.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, she's a responsible person.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, like getting involved, I feel like uh we just learned that the 2029 conference is gonna be down in San Diego.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
19:26
SPEAKER_02: So we're we're excited for that.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we gotta we're gonna put together.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: I can already envision it.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna have uh we're gonna host some kind of reception or something, and there's gonna be mariachi and tequila.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Like that's what and then there's gonna be a special bus for those that care to come with us down to Tijuana.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: I've done that before we've sent San Diego Valle de Guadalupe.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: We can do a Valle.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: That's a one country, yeah.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a gray one country right by us.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Really?
19:58
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Valle de Guadalupe.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: That's in Baja California.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh a couple hours away from us.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but interesting enough, you know, I was talking to people yesterday here, like HNBA folks, and they were asking me, it's like, how how far is San Diego from Tijuana?
20:11
SPEAKER_02: I was like, They don't even get it.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: They don't even know.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: They don't really understand, it's just a line.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: We can be down there and from our office to the borders, probably like 20 minutes.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, easy.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 25 minutes it took us on Tuesday.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a crazy for a panel.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh but April, I know you wanted also to discuss some of the things that you know that have gone through your life, some of the struggles.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh, tell us a little bit about that.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And so um, I guess uh I've I've been a frequent speaker on my struggles with alcoholism.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, it kind of went hand in hand with the job, right?
20:46
SPEAKER_01: I just very high among lawyers.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I didn't start drinking until I was in law school and it was stress relief.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, it was one of those things that alcohol is so available, and it's um it's more dangerous.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: It and I don't want to say it's it's like some people are immune because the the fact about it is alcohol is an addictive substance.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Anyone can get addicted.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: But there are certain categories of people who can get addicted much more easily, and I happen to fall in one of them.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I have um alcoholism on both sides of my family, I also have ADHD, um, which means that you have a dopamine deficiency when you drink, you get ahead of dopamine.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: So we tend to be very attracted to it and really just seek it out.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I went to law school, I started drinking, and within six months I was drinking every day.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Um and I did it at home where no one saw me because I, you know, wanted to keep up appearances.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and then I went home for a summer and I got sober with my mom because I was scary myself.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't think anything of it.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: I thought, you know, I just had a very stressful year.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't think for And for a second, that like I was an alcoholic.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: And so then I went back to school, finished school, started practicing, started drinking again, again went to daily drinking, but this time it ha it lasted for 10 years.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And um and it's really hard because so much of our profession involves alcohol.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Here I we have a receptionist tonight, everybody's gonna be drinking.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about going to Valle de Guadalupe.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's it certainly is fun.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's everywhere.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: We we celebrate wins, we uh, you know, drown our sorrows um after a loss, uh we just go and network, and you know, I I just before I knew it, I was at a place where um where I didn't recognize myself.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: And I felt really alone because everyone around me was drinking without a problem.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, we show up to places like this and you know, everyone's moderating.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, most people are moderating.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, I I just I felt very alone.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, I felt like like there was something wrong with me because I hadn't heard of anybody in this profession, a professional, a woman, um, a young person who was having the same struggles as me.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And I thought that that I should be ashamed of myself and that I should um that there was something defective about me.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And that kept me from getting help.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh I struggled for two years.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Every day I woke up in the morning, I quit.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but by that evening I was drinking again.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that's very hard to describe.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Um when you're in the throes of addiction, there's nothing you want more than alcohol, and there's nothing you want more than to be free of it, and you're struggling with that every day.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so uh thankfully, um, about seven years ago I got sober.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: I haven't had a drink since.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't think I ever will, but I don't want to be too um presumptuous.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh that can also be dangerous.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: And um and I now speak out about my experiences because if there's somebody in the room who was feeling the same way I do, I did, um, like they're alone, like they're the only one struggling with this.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: I want them to know that that's not the case and that um they can always reach out to me.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: You can look me up on the internet, um, call me if you're struggling.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I will pick up that phone day or night um and you know, talk you through it and hopefully get you like the peace you need.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, awesome.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, um, you know, that takes some courage to first, you know, um look in the mirror, you know, recognize that it's time, and then to take the action, you know, that you have.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh seven years a long time without a drink.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: So um big, big hats off to you.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was in recovery myself as a as a lawyer, so I get that.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was uh I was uh in recovery for like two years, like and I I crashed, I hit rock bottom, as they say.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so hats off to you for sharing.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's I'm sure that there are people that will hear your story and listen to it that are themselves struggling in the same way you did.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna be a hero to them and a light of hope.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so like you know, the funny thing is like I I don't know like every lawyer, but what is it with all these Latino Hispanic lawyers?
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think we've ever had a guest that had a straight path.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Have we?
25:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Like everybody's like everybody like they flunk the bar, they go this, they they get in trouble, they get diagnosed with ADHD, they drink too much.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: But that creates personality, right?
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, but it creates like heart and resiliency.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: I think resiliency, and and you know what we've heard a lot about resiliency lately, like in conferences and podcasts.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: And it's true, right?
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, because it forms you, you gotta you gotta basically go over these obstacles, but it makes you a better person, right?
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And a better lawyer, I think.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I also think that you know, um a lot of the folks in our community, they're sort of transcending um, you know, sort of like what I was thinking was like my boundaries.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't, I people like me don't do this, and so we have to sort of transcend that.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's tough to step out of your comfort zone.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, of course you're gonna fall along the way.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like people like us exactly do it because I mean, like when I was in that community, those were the people I was meeting, like you know, the doctors and lawyers and yeah, like like people that are hard on themselves, you know, and and they don't think they would ever, you know, be in that room.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, just thanks for sharing.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And so um kind of to wrap up, uh, you know, you started um law school uh or or had some some issues, you know, you said you had a rocky road or whatever.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: I the road sounds beautiful to me.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but um, what advice would you give to like a young or not even young, a person, you know, that's looking at this profession and saying, is it for me really?
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, am I cut out for this?
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's too hard, I'm a failure, oh, I drink too much.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: This maybe I'm maybe I'm too ugly or fat or whatever their doubts are, what would you share?
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Just do it.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: It's so fun.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: And there's um there's a place for everyone in the law, right?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a storyteller, I like to um I like to think about you know how I can get around an argument, and that's what's really fascinating to me.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: But there's in-house opportunities, there's government work, um the the world is your oyster.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, if you think that law might be a career that you're interested in, do it.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Just do it.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: Like my I was a podcast guest at one point before I actually worked for John, and you know, and and you'll you'll get your chance right now to like write things in the sky.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: And my thing was I'm a big Nike uh fan.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you say just do it?
28:19
SPEAKER_02: I said just do it.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the thing that I had.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: So when you said I'm like, yeah, I remember like someone, was that you?
28:25
SPEAKER_01: That was me.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's the 90s kids.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the wrap-up question is um there's a podcast by this guy, Oso Travas called Cracks.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: He's a Mexican entrepreneur, he brings in all these cracks.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: He says these are like high-level thinkers and achievers.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the podcast, he says, if you could write words in the sky for all the world to read, what would your message to the world be?
28:48
SPEAKER_00: You belong.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love it.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we belong.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: We belong.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: Eso.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Just do it, we belong.
28:55
SPEAKER_02: And what a better place than HMBA.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: We all belong here.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: We all belong here.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing your journey.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you for uh making every every one of our guests so far.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: I feel like uh this community is a very nice community, like everybody uh has been so lovely, and and you're the latest uh example of that.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And you know, pleased and honored that you shared your time and journey and life story with us.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, April.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: All right, so um that concludes this episode of the Latino podcast.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: If you like us, like us, follow us, share us, tell everyone about us.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: Um and so we will be signing off.