Latest / WoT Spoilers / On a Broken Road & Embers and Ash - The Gathering Storm chapters 20 & 21 - EP524

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On a Broken Road & Embers and Ash - The Gathering Storm chapters 20 & 21 - EP524 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Mmm.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that's coming through, but the cat
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: is crashed on the shelf next to me and is
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: sleeping on a blanket and is snoring. And I had
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to put the microphone on the cat snoring for a second.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, pretty sure it'll come through the recording. We've
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: got cats snoring on tape.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. So you
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: were traveling last week.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was in a different room, on
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a different microphone, on a different computer. Everything was different.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: It was chaos on a different internet. Yeah. You did
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: not have the easiest time understanding me, though the audience
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: in the finished recording will have a fine time because
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I was doing a local recording on a computer that
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: was good at its job. So there's a lot of
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: you being like, oh no, you're a robot and I'm
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: just editing all of that out right.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter to everybody else.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: You, It doesn't matter because I sound great for that that.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You had a very hard time on the live understanding me.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Me and the live Yeah, the live audience as
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: well was probably like a radio you are, And I
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: got to say being able to see you and read
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: your lips helped a lot, because otherwise I don't think
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I could have actually understood the robot voice.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was rough. I had multiple meetings on that
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: internet connection and they were all difficult, for sure. So
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to be home. Yeah, I was just doing
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: a thing, and now I'm not doing the thing. I
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: get to be home, which is great. Yeah, it is February,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: so we're tired.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: We were talking about how it's sort of the the
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: We're still a couple of weeks out from the equinox,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: so it's still been dark for a long long It
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: feels like it's been dark for a long time, and
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: that's always just the hardest time of year for me.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm struggling.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a lot going on, for sure. The
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: other night, I hung out with a bunch of people
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and burned a whole bunch of palettes. But it was
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: raining the whole time, so we were just absolutely soaked
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: in rain, but like steaming because there was a giant
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: bonfire that we could stand next to, and it was
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: just really fun and uncomfortable at the same time.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Isn't most fun just a little uncomfortable.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Not all fun, But yeah, this was some quintessential Oregonian
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: fun where it's like, we don't care that it's dumping rain.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: We have a giant fire.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: We're just gonna ignore the rain.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: To just ignore the rain. Like the music equipment was
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: undercover so we could have tunes, and then the power
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: went out, but we had charge bluetooth speakers, so it
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: was fine. This is partying in the country on a budget.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Whereas for me, I was trying to clip the dog's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: nails and a cut one too short and he started
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: just bleeding everywhere. I mean, it's just it wasn't too bad.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Like once once I got some never put some baking
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: soot on and stopped the bleeding. But I was just like,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I've murdered my dog. I'm a bad
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: dog parent. I'm worthless. Like yeah, And I was like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: oh wait, I may I may be suffering them from
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit of seasonal.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Depression perhaps perhaps.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So Yeah, looking for the uh, looking for the sun
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to come back out. I'm looking forward to that for sure.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And unfortunately the suid will not be coming out
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: in these chapters. No, No, these chapters are frustrating and demoralizing.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: It feels like you're trying to travel on a broken
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: road or something.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Oh we have one good thing though before that, patrons, patrons. Yes,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: we have people who have given us, given us an
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: affirmation that we are doing good things. So let's give
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: them their shout outs.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: The whole reason I am dragging myself out of my
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: depressive hole and being like, hey, guys, let's talk because
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I love you guys and the patrons, but the live
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: listeners and of course everyone who listens on the recording
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: as well. Where'd I don't that I sent it to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: you right.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: In our private show chat.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's the last message. You don't have to scroll up.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: It's literally the last thing you sent, all right. So
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: that means we're going to start today's thinking with big
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: thanks to light Blinded Fool, who I recognize from multiple
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: other podcast audiences. Thank you very much.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Then Paulina Simmons.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Next we have dog Boy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: You get to say all the fun names today.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I do, I do?
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Did you pick up? No?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I just took the initiative.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And then because I need glasses, uh, Marina Bindley Bindley, Brindley.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Brindley, there's a lot of letters in that name. Well,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: thank you very much to the four of you and
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to all of our other patreons. You definitely keep us going,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: both literally and emotionally.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It's so true, so true. It's amazing what an emotional
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: boost it is to look at the number of people
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: who are supporting us every month and just be like, oh,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: thank you, that's what I'm like. Please just even if
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you can give it dollar a month. It makes me
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: so happy like that people still care about the podcast
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: enough to give and still want to hear what we
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: have to say.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really nice to scream into the void and
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: have the void cheer back.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Mm hm you know.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah. From that bright moment, we now must descend
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: into the depths of whatever the hell is happening in
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: these chapters today.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: So Brandon has a time machine and he took paranigm
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Matt and stuck him in it and put him back
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: to book one, and then rewrote those characters into these chapters.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: This is like, I can't tell if it's completely out
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: of character or if it's just an out of date
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: character sometimes because it's it's just it's just so not
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: the character we know. It's so not the character we know,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: not the.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Character that we met in Knife of Dreams, because Knife
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: of Dreams really felt like this character building moment. Yeah,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and like so many of the characters evolved past what
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: they had been, right, Like it's you know, you get
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the moment sort of Lord of Chaos feels like one
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: moment where we have our generals and our kings, right,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but there's still these kids who are put in these
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: positions of power not really knowing what they're doing. Whereas
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: in Knife of Dreams you have them really settling into
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: their power and being comfortable with their power, you know,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: in a way that maybe isn't totally complete, but like
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: they do sit comfortably in a lot of what they
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: can do. They are now the gods, not the kings, right,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the kings with power. And then he sort of comes
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: back and rewrites the these childish characters who don't feel who
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: feel insecure and not comfortable in the power that they
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: have we've seen them grown to be comfortable in.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Right, They're acting uncertain in ways where we've seen them
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: act certain. They're taking scenarios that they should be able
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to just breeze through and being like, oh, I don't
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: know what.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: This is, right, yes, yeah, and so I think that's
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: why it's just rough to read and rough to comment on,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: because it's like, yeah, it's almost recap only recap in
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: character development.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Right though, as we were talking about before we got
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: on recording, the one thing that he does shine on
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: in these two chapters is the side characters. A lot
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: of the side character interactions and characterizations and behaviors and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: interactions are very interesting, believable. Enrich the world, enrich the story.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Fail shows a lot of growth.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's just the big ones that he's like
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: not He's not comfortable writing the big characters. He's only
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: comfortable at this point writing the small characters.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, and so you get this just speech
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: from Matt here in the beginning, and I don't.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to read it. You don't have to.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I kind of have to. I kind of really want to,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: like at least, okay, the first paragraph. I will read
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: one paragraph because there's so much of it. And it
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: goes on for song for like two and a half page. Yeah,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it's so much, it's much. It's way too much. Women,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Matt declared as he rode pips down the dusty, little
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: used road or like mules. He frowned. Wait, no goats.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Women are like goats, except every flaming one of them
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: thinks he's a horse instead, and a prize racing Meredith
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Boot you understand me to Melanus, pure poetry, Matt, and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: like that could have been the end of it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: That couldn't that was the end of it.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: That was no ranting. We have been so happy. Then
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: there's there's a little bit of background. You know, it's
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: been Matt's got seven thousand men with him, we learned
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: later in a thousand have died, which is actually still
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a pretty high death rate, by the way, one in eight.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Against vastly superior odds, though fair fair.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: And it's been a week since two on left, yeah, right,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And then two more pages of Matt going women are goats.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: She'll sit down at a game, tell you the rules,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: punch you lie about the dice, cheap stealah bah bah.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And it's just, oh my god, it's it's the part
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: that I've just needed to be edited out, like this
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: chapter needed to be edited down so significantly. And this
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: is and you know again, it's where Matt is telling
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you exactly who he is, telling you exactly what his
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: opinions about women are instead of showing you what his
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: opinions about women are. And not only is he telling you,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: he's telling you the wrong thing. He's telling you something
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that he doesn't believe anymore, because we've seen his beliefs
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and change and his actions reflect that change.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And like Telmanes, you know, Brandon s Anderson through
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Talmanus tries to frame it as like this is his
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: mood being shitty because he's worried about two on. This
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: is a new level of worry because he's husbandly now.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But like, I don't buy it. I don't buy it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't think that this is like him
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: snapping at Vannon and snapping at Joelene that yes, but
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: this rant about women being like goats and cheating and
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: et cetera is just so like, no, this is this
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: is just not right. This is weird and you.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Can see where it's coming from. It's the Matt not
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: liking is said, I Matt being weird about getting married, right,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: but like he has a respect for women that means
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: he would never talk about them this way. It's a
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: weird kind of respect, right. It's like hard to even articulate.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: This is not how his disrespect usually comes through.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right, that's a better way of saying it, right,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have this brand of disrespect.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know, Telmanis gets to begin to
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: shine in his you know, expanding Sanderson role in his responses,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: you know, being like all sardonic and having a covert
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: sense of humor and whatever. Like it's fine, but it's
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: There were other ways to make Tealmana's comment on Matt's
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: style of humor than two and a half pages of
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: really weird, misogynistic granting. Anyway, I think something I do
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: like in this chapter, as I said, the side character
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: interactions Vanon being jealous of the map maker, I think
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: is really cute and really believable. Like that enriches the
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: backdrop of the world for me, that VanIn is threatened
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: by a map maker. And also like I did geography right,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Like that was my degree in college, and like I'm
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: no better at navigating now than I was before I learned,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Like the principles of map design and how to use
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: gis right, Like being able to make maps does not
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: make you good at navigating the landscape. Like they tried
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: to make me take surveying classes so that I could
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: learn to navigate. I did not learn those lessons. Well,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: like I passed the classes, but I did not truly
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: internalize the survey skills they were trying to impart because
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I was in the geography program. So like Vannon's critique
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: of Master Roy Dell is very correct, and I just
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: like that little bit of world building.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't necessarily, yeah, interpret it as jealousy. I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: interpreted it as like a legitimate concern, like yet the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: map maker doesn't know where the fuck he is, that's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: why he makes maps. Right.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Well, Matt interprets it as jealousy, and I believed Matt,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: which probably shouldn't have done this, probably my mistake.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: But well, with Sanderson, you can be a little more
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: believable that he's gonna tell you what he's thinking rather
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: than him being wrong. Yeah. One thing I noticed about
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this area is it reminds me a lot of like Appalachia,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: are just these rolling mountains where everything looks exactly the same,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Like which mountain is that I don't know. It looks
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: like all the other mountains, like they're old mountains that
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: have worn down over a long time, isolated communities in
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: between all these like hard to travel over, hills are
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: all isolated, and yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, weird little community is up in the holler.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm just I'm hearing when they ride over
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the hill, the hinter's tap thing, the thing ding ding
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: ding ming you like, it's definitely right right, horror themed
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: middle of nowhere Appalachia vibes right.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Every millennial kid reading the setup to hinders Tap is like, well,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: this is clearly going to go bad. There's no scenario
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: in which the hero rolls up to a weird mountain
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: town and has it go well, like we've all been
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: trained on millennial media, like no, no, this is this
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: is gonna go south, sideways, pear shaped.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I also like the way it sort of rolls into
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the way they went from town to town, end in
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and had things happen at the ends where they stayed at.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I kind of like that Matt going from town to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: town and having little incidents at every little town. I
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: like that kind of fantasy genre right, the like on
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a boat traveling from island to island, on a spaceship,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: traveling from planet to planet, on a horror traveling from
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: town to town, Like, there's so many ways to create
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: this new interaction with a new group of people and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: forward the plot and forward the interactions in a way
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that's interesting when you have a group traveling, right.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And also that's a nice callback to Matt in book
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: one that doesn't feel artificial, right, echoing the you know
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: road trip time Timey whimy time, the road trip from Hell,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Like you know, yeah, we've seen Matt doing this before,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: and it's fun to see him kind of powered up
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and having an entourage and like all this stuff. This
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: is different than when he traveled before. This is a
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: callback that isn't artificial feeling.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I was like that it's all basically and are we
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: there yet? Because they're on the road. Like Matt's like,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: so what do we do now that we know where
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: we are? And Van's like, we keep traveling on the
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: road because.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: There are two directions to go, sir, Like we can
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: go forward and back.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So like after all that back and forth about like
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you know, Matt Baker and Vannon and leading the way,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, we're going in this direction and we'll
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: know one we get there.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, two more hours, yeah.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Right before sunset?
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah for sure.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Because that's what this chapter is setting up inter his
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: tap right, which doesn't need a whole chapter to set
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: up right again, this is this is almost a nothing chapter.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's because Sanderson wanted to start writing the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Matt tel Monus romance, because this has a lot of
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Matt Tell honest romance and that continues through hinders taps.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think he wanted to set up the relationship dynamic
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that he was going to write through hinderstap.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Which is not to say he did not invent this.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: We definitely saw a couple of spots in the earlier
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: books where Tealmnus has the sort of wry humor, dry
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: humor where he says something sarcastically at Matt, like, but
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: it's just not to the degree which Sanderson writes that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: as like a very much buddy comedy back and forth,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: very much Era two Misbourne right where you haven't read it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I read book one over two. Yeah, okay, I just
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: didn't feel like finishing the trilogy. It didn't interest me.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Wax and Wayne or these you know, it's the
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: buddy cop One of them is a little bit sillier. Yeah.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Now there's a line here that I think actually is
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Sanderson talking about his relationship to Tommani's as a writer.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Earlier in their association, Matt aka Brandon had assumed him
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to be stern, unable to have fun. He was learning better.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Tomani's wasn't stern. He was just reserved. Like I think
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Sanderson's literally talking about his own writing process, being like, oh, yeah,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: here's a side character that I wrote off as a
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: reader early on, and now as a writer, I'm coming
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: in being like, oh, tal Monny's is actually an important
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: side character to like describing the Matt space.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And he's been Matt's number two for a while, right,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: and so it's like this whole and he's he's took
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: over the band when Matt wasn't there. He's basically the
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: commander of the band. Besides, you know, Matt's essentially the mascots.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Truly though truly truly, Yeah, lots of men have joined
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and stayed with the band under Talmanus's leadership, but Matt's branding.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But tal Mones is the one actually like keeping order
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: in the camp and making decisions and doing all the
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: things that have to be done right.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: As an example, he's the one bringing in all the money,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: right because he went to the king and worked for them.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: We saw that whole situation with Agwayne, and he's like,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go work for this king for a while,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and when I'm done, I'm going to go take the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: money and go back to map And that's exactly what
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: he did. And that's why he's puffing on a gold
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: RM pipe instead of a normal pipe, because the king
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: gave him that as a gift. He says that later.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Yep, answer two rivers to back, because again the economics
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: of two rivers to BAC do not need to be
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: examined closer.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there seems to be both a lot of it
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: everywhere and somehow always the last bag.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, always always.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I can remember another substance that used to be illegal
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: that I could always just I was always told, oh
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: we just one more bag, that's all we've got.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Though, way, in fairness to them, I don't think there's
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: been a lot of like commerce this year out of
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: the two rivers.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Right right. I think that's supposed to be the point
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: is because they were.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Shut off two years ago, actually.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Two years ago by the White Cloaks and Patent Fane
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: because he was trying to keep all the news closed up. Well,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: he was actually the White Cloaks closed it. Patten Faine
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: was trying to let the news out because he wanted
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: ran to know about it.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there's shipments of tobaccu have been interrupted for
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: a minute, so people are running down to the last
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: of their stashes.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Also, it's not really growing, I don't think right, Like
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: also that yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like two rivers. People have been busy, like
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: you know, firing their fields and defending against trolocsuse they
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: have not had the time to do agriculture.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Which is true. Kind of an example of everything, right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I kind of think of the two rivers to bac
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: as his little monitor for like, how's the agriculture doing
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: in the world, And it's like, well, we're running out
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: of two rivers to Baq, which means we're running out
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: of all the niceties.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Right, that's your your weather vane or bellweather canarry and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the coal mine. Kind of like, well, if you don't
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: have the tobacc then you can assume that everything else
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: is also struggling.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little Tom honest Joe. Tom Honis had
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: spent a few days calling matt your highness until Matthew
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: lost his temper and yelled at the man, which you
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: know is just like the st of yes, your highness,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: and he's like strong, he's a great way to poke
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: at him. Yeah, and him being like, why couldn't luck
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: have helped him avoid being Prince of the Ravens. It's like, dude,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that's the luck made you a prince. Like most people
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: like have to go to a genie and wish to
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: be a prince. You just got lucked into it, but I.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Don't want it. It's like, shut up, quit your whining.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: You're in charge of an empire, like act like it.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Use your power.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised they don't stick him up on the ashendar
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: and just wave him around like a flag.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I know he thinks about two on a bit, you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: contrasting both worrying about her safety as his wife and
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: also worrying about her sending assassins after him because you know,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: being empire.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Worrying about his safety as her wife.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, her husband whatever, Yeah exactly. There's two
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: sides to that. There's the like human side and there's
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: the political side, and he's worrying about both. And Tamanes
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: is like, you are so mooning after her and Matt's like,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I'm in denial, and we do that for a while.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, back and forth. I'm mooning after No,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm just concerned, okay. But then you're snapping
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: at everybody and have a temper and constantly talking about her.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: So and then there's the gambling thing that where he's like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go gambling in two months. Is like you're
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: gonna be talking about that and you're sleep and.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: It's he used to say, like, you know, I don't
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: want to get married because I don't want to stop gambling,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: drinking and whoring, and like he's like, well, I guess
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I can't hoe anymore, but I'm not gonna stop. But
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna stop gambling and drinking. Because he said
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that all the time right where it's's like and she
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: she can't stop me from doing the two things I
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: actually want to do, but I'm definitely not gonna You know,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: he's not a cheater.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: No, No, he's not. He is. He is loyal to
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: that concept. I do like when Tom honest like, you're
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: not going to go soft, Matt, you might go boring.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: That was a good line. That was a really good line,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you won't go soft because you're married. Good, that was settled.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: You might going though, all.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Right, that's it, And then he makes the you know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it's not really a fateful decision to go to hinderstap
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and gamble, because they were gonna do that anyway. But
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: that feels like the moment that the hinders tap thing
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: becomes locked in because he has made this snap decision,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: and anytime Matt makes a snap decision, there's reasons why
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: it's a snap decision.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: You know, honestly would have liked it to have some
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: dice in his head for this one.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: The lack of dice is and Matt does comment on
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the lack of dice being weird, so there's at least
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: that level of self awareness, but it is weird.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I do think that the dice very much were leading
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: up to him becoming Prince of the Ravens, right, that
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: was this faded thing that a lot of the dice
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: rolling was him marrying Tuon, getting together with Tuon, buying
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the raizor wouoling her, you know, and it seems like
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: fate kind of was like, okay, done, that's it. That's
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: all I really need to indicate to you. Like it
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: was more about the battles at the beginning, and now
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: it's like about two on and now I'm just like,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you're good enough, You're see you later.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And he is, He's fine, He's totally fine, though I
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: do wonder, and he tells, uh, Vannon, you know we're
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna go to this hint because Vannon comes
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: up and says, oh, I you know figured out which
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: mountain it is. When there's a town ahead it's called
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: hinder Step. And Matt says, I'm not taking the whole
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: band in. I don't want seven thousand soldiers running them
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: up in this village. And I do wonder how things
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: would have gone if he had had seven thousand soldiers
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: in the village when it went ballistic that night, Like
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: they would have tried to fight in a different way,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: and maybe more of them would have gotten killed and
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: sucked into it, Like Hinderstep could have been a very
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: different experience with seven thousand cavalry.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I think with seven thousand cavalry, the town would
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: have been just they would have attacked the cavalry and
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the Covaly would have just run them down, like it
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been it would have been sudden. But I
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: do think that like that many because I think it
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: was a town of like a couple hundred people, right,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're talking thousands of people in this town.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: This is like a small town, so then you're talking
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: odds of like ten to one, you know.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Right, But like the thing where like the they fight
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: unpredictably and stuff, and like I just I wonder if
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: a legion would have relied too much on structure and
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: then been like overwhelmed, and even if a bunch of
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: them got away, like a bunch of them would have
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: died and been trapped there, and like how would that
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: have changed hinderstep to have like a few hundred like
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: mounted cavalry, just like, so we're stuck here now, like.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Or imagine all of them or all of them, right,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: imagine something happens where like it just like maybe the
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: ones that die rise up that night, right, and so
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: then they it becomes a spreading zombie plague type situation
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: right where Matt's the only one who escapes and his
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: entire army of seven thousand is stuck in Hinder's tap
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: living over and over again. And then that scene in
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the final battle where they like are defending a thing
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and they come back, is like, holy shit, this is
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the same seven thousand troops. The Band of the Red
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Hand is just an undying force.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. I just like there's so many ways this
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: could have gone, if you know, depending on the size
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of the party he takes in.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, orgs just a core, core, core
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: group of fighters who always lead the battle and who
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: die every time. Like they just just gateway them to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: the battle every single day.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Hindus tap move at the end is
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: very effective, but it would have been more effective if
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: the band had somehow gotten sucked into it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think some of them did. It seems
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: like some of the band did sacrifice themselves to stay
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: in the town because some of the band, who some
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: of the band comes back through the gateway. I feel like,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: who were in there the first.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Day, I think some of them choose to go back later.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think it happens in this Nobody dies in this.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: No, no, not in this chapter. No. But I do
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: think like before the last battle, it seems like some of.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Them, some of them go back on purpose. Yeah, I
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: think you're right about that. Some of them deliberately choose
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to put themselves in hinders tabs so they can make
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: the fighting force that much more effective. That rings a bell,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: but it's something that happens off screen. So also we've
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: got the Eyes to Die inserting themselves into the party.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: It's very much like everyone with plot armor to the front.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: We're going to go in and have a plot where
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: no one dies. We think about the various eyes to die,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: but none of it's really super relevant because we know
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: who they are and what their motivations are. There's a
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: really fun line here where Matt's thinking about the isidis
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: interactions where isid I didn't squabble. He'd gotten talking to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: once for calling their discussion squabbles. Never mind that Matt
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: had sisters and knew what a good squabble sounded like.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I do like that commentary.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: That's one.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: And then we have this long interaction where Matt very
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: rudely dresses Joline down by doing the math about how
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: many horses they would need in order to leave and
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: go faster.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And oh yeah, and it's just it's.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Too many paragraphs of really grouchy nothing of intrigue.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Which just makes me think that it's a decently clever
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: way of Matt not wanting the iid Eye to leave him,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: being like I do anything he or the these I
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: sid Eye. But the second they're like, okay, all you
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: gotta do is give us twenty four horses and some grain,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: He's like, well that wouldn't work. I need you to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: stay around, Like he knows the value that the isid
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Eye are playing. This is a good job of him
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: saying he doesn't want the isid I around but actually
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: does a lot of work to keep them there. It
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: just goes on way too long. It's just way too long.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: So long, yeah, so long. And again tom Onny's comments,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: this has kind of had a character for you. You
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: must be really worried. But like, I don't think we
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: needed that many paragraphs to point that out.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Right right, some van and dread evidence. He doesn't like
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: being interrogated by isid eye. Looks like he'd rather have
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: been discovered stealing horses on his way to execution. I
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: think any forsaken would feel that way. No respect for them,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: treats them just like anyone else. And I go to
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: a good man in that van and he treats Iiday
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: just like anyone else. And then he of course, then
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: he then covers it up, so.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then he wilts the pressure. He's just a regular guy.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Your theory is fine.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I know what's wrong. I know what's wrong. It's fine.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: It's a joke theory. Don't come at me, it's fine.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And then Matt is like, I'm going to play a
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: joke on the town and win all the food for free,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: and it's gonna be real clever, and and Timonis is
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: an enabler who just says this will be fun. And
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: that's the end of the chapter.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Let's see. Yeah, there's a he's gonna have to make
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: good on his promise to Tom. The Tower of Genji
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: would just have to wait a few more weeks. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: always think about it, like, oh, yeah, you know, just
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: let Morain get tortured a few more weeks, no deal.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Also, like I love that Oliver is like very seriously
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: explaining his strategies to Noel about how to get into
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the Tower of Genji, and knowl is just like taking
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: him really seriously, and it's just it's very yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: No, that's a very cute like grandfather Young Boy interaction
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: where the young kids just rattling on a thousand miles
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a minute, and the old man wants nothing more than
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: to listen because it's like, yeah, that's that's kind of
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the best thing in life.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Basically, Nola is getting a little honorary grandson energy, you know,
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: while he hangs out with the band before he goes
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: out in a blaze of glory, and he's he's enjoying it.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: He's fine with all for just talking his ear off.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, okay, I think that's uh, that's all I
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: had in that chapter. Food's getting scarce, you know, all
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: these things we've touched on over and over and over again. Right.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The reason why they go to hinders Tap is
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: not just to satisfy Matt's desire to gamble. It's also
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: to try to resupply because seven thousand men need food.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like, no matter how much food I get,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: any any amount helps. Basically, as we're traveling every day,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: even if we just pick up you know, if I
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: can feed half the army for one meal for one day,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that's one more you know, half day. I can get
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: further along the road without having to restock resupply majorly,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: So every little bit counts.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, good philosophy in life to Yep, lots of wisdom
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: in this chapter.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Love. Yeah, sure, that's that's one way to put it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Wisdom God, Matt. It's just it's just.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So from one eye rolling character to the next.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You when I go to Embers and Ash.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Embers and Ash and our symbols the wolf because this
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: is apparent chapter. What was the symbol of the last one?
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Dice? Because it was a Matt chapter.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Dice knows a Matt chapter. Wow, just really literal here,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: aren't we just because there's nothing else going on? There's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: nothing you can't they're not really interacting with any of
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the characters. They're not in tel eroone ri Odd, they're not.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: There's no dark friends, there's no forsake in It's just
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: hmm mmm, rough rough, Embers and Ash. Paren opened his
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: eyes and found himself hanging in the air. He felt
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a spike of terror. Floundering in the sky. Black clouds
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: boiled overhead, dark and ominous. Below, a plane of wild
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: brown grasses rolled in the wind. No sign of humans,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: no tents, no roads, not even any footprints. Paren wasn't falling.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: He just hung there. He waved his arms reflexibly, as
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: if to swim panicking. Is his mind trying to make
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: sense of the storch disorientation the wolf dream. He thought,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I'm in the wolf dream. I went to sleep hoping
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to come here. He forced himself to breathe in and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: out and still his flailing, though it was difficult to
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: be calm while hanging hundreds of feet up in the sky. Suddenly,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: a gray, furred form shot past him. Leaping through the air.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: The wolf soared down to the field below, landing easily.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Hopper Hopper, Hopper, hopper.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we like Copper.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I like Copper, and so this, yeah, this is the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: part where I'm just like, Okay, Paren hunted slayer in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the Wolf Dream. He teleported, he stepped, He made himself,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you know, blend in with the background. He made him
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: self not sound like anything he has. He's made arrows
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: appear and disappear. This like getting stuck up in the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: air and don't know what I'm doing and flailing and panicking,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: being in telerounriodd is so out of character for Parent,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and so book three four, Paren maybe really pre pre
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Battle of the Two Rivers because that's when he takes down.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, obviously he hasn't taken said on permanently.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: He has to level up even harder before that rite done.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he has shown himself proficient in the dream.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: He should not be finding this so disorienting, right.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Right, Like, and this is again where I feel like
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Sanderson's starting over. He's like, I'm going to take him
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: through my own little personal journ, me from where he
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: was in book one to where I want him to be,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: and it's going to happen pretty quickly. But yeah, it's
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it's like, grow from where they are instead of where
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: they used to be. And I think just comes back
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: to the fact that he was a fan. But he
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: was a fan who probably read the first books a
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: lot more than he read the last few.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Books, right, which fair, fair, we all.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Did, right because they're out for twenty years while the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: last ones are only out for a couple of years, right,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: So it makes sense. But to me, it feels like
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: he didn't do it a quite a good enough job
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: of upgrading his mental image of these characters before sitting
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: down and writing this book.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, and he's retreading ground with Hopper. He's gone
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: over before, you know, like, I need control, I need
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: to know what I'm doing but I need to not
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: also follow any of your instructions whatsoever. Hopper's like, here
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is literally step one. Parents, Like, well, I can't do that,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: but I do need my degree, right. I can't do
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: any of the homework, I can't do any of the
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: field work. I won't come to a single class, but
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: I do need you to give me a degree with
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: fall honors. Hopper's like, that's not how it works.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I need to get the certification to do the job, right,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: And so it's like, yeah, but the certification means you
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: know how to do certain things, and that's why you
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: can do the job. And if you don't have to
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: do those things, the certification doesn't mean anything, right.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do like Hopper's critique that men are
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: too obsessed with control. I do you think it's definitely
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: a human failing is being obsessed with control. And we
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: could do a lot more being feral and wolf like
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: in our appreciation of nature. But again, we don't need
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: pages upon pages to get us to that conclusion.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: My whole job is fixing machines that have certain parameters
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that fall what we call out of control. My whole
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: job really is bringing machines back into control. So yes,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: as humans, we are a little obsessed with control.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what Carl Seigan called the will to order, you know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: it's one of our greatest strengths and our greatest weaknesses.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Couple interesting things, The stormy cloud in Telehranriod, that seems
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to really be I mean, I love the idea that
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Teleran Renod somehow is the dark One's prison, right, It's
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the border between our reality and his reality, and like,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: even though there's a whole drilled in it, it still
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: exists the whole time and then all that kind of stuff.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: But whatever your interpretation of it is, that storm seems
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: to represent Rand's I don't want to call it madness,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: because the madness is lewis Theren's voice in his head,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: his nihilism right, his state of being right. And that's
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: reinforced when Hopper says, if it comes first of all,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: which always love, the we com it comes like the
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: yeah it comes. Popper agreed, if Shadow Killer falls to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the storm, all will sleep forever. If he lives, then
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: we will hunt together, you and us, which to me,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: that that, to me is such a definitive statement about
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the nature of the last battle and what's going to
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: happen between then and now. If Shadow Killer falls to
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the storm, the storm being his own nihilism. If on
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the top of the mountain he destroys the earth, all
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: will sleep forever. That's the end of the wheel. If
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: he lives, if he doesn't destroy the wheel, we hunt together,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: We go to the last battle, We go to the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: last hunt, and then we determine how good the future
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: is going to be, right, because at that point then
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: you determine whether you get to live the future enslaved
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: by forsake and overrun by trolis. Yeah, the Dark Ones
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: locked away, but you're gonna have a bad time, or
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have a Golden Age and a resurrection and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: a new Age of Legends, Age four, whatever you want
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to call it. And I do think that, like the
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Last Battle has more to do with how good the
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Fourth Age is going to be and less to do
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: with whether or not the Dark One is going to
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: win the Last battle. The Dark One lost the Last
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Battle when Rand didn't destroy the world in veins of Gold.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm nodding. And again, you know it's of
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: course it's the Wolf that is able to easily cut
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: to the heart of the matter, and not a human
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: who feels they need to control and micromanage and all
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: of that. A wolf's just like, oh, this is what
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: it is, like clearly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, this is the choice he has to make.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: He either falls to the storm and ends the world,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: or we get the or we get to continue to fight, right,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: And that's that's the whole thing about fantasy is and
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: and a happily ever after is it can only ever
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: promise that you get to continue to fight.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's never the end of the fight.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: It's just more life, right, yeah, because that's kind of
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: how life is, right, Life is struggle.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: And change, and that's and the whole point is like
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you get a chance to love again, because love makes
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: everything else worth it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I noticed too, like not just the storm,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: but also like the grass is too dry and the
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: air smells kind of stale, and it's just like everything
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: about the because like when Agwayne first shows up, she's like,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: this meadow is perfect. There's butterflies, the humidity is correct,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: the grass is the everything's perfect. And now here he
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: is and everything's just a little bit off from perfect.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Like the whole dream is getting a little off and
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I like that detail. And then yeah, he tries to
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: do stupid pairing things in the dream and Hopper boots
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: him out because he's still not learning correctly, and that's
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the end of the POV.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: The only other thing is again, this gets reiterated so
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: many times, but here Brandon again says it right out
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: where he says throwing away the act had made a difference.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: The acts and the hammer were different weapons. One could
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: be used only for killing, while the other gave him
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: a choice, And that's sort of The choice is the
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: important part, right, the balance, the choice, the ability to
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: choose darkness and light as opposed to And I think
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the parallel is always the sword and the spear, Right,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Why the iiell and still not pick up a sword
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: and do the spear because the spear is a hunting device.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: You can hunt animals with it, so it can be productive.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: The sword You're not hunting animals with the sword. It's
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: only got one purpose, which is killing people.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah totally, But yeah, again it's it's been belabored upon
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: so many times, and it will be again that. Yeah,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: it's easy to forget. Maybe we should mention it every
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: now and then.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's when it's again. I like it
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: when it's sort of compacted, not like it, but I
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: will point it out when the whole lesson that we've
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: been shown over and over again gets written down in
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: two sentence little paragraph by Brandon because he does love
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, So then I think, yeah, he
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: does that thing where he's trying to get stronger, so
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: he pulls himself into tell a run reodd too strongly,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and too strongly means he's leaving, he's separating. He's creating
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: a separation between his spirit and his body, and his
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: body could die. So he has to learn how to
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: be strong in tell a Runriod without pulling himself into
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Tell a Runriod. Kind of think of like holding an
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: egg without crushing it, right, exactly totally, except in this
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: case it's like his connection between his soul and his
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: body right right. Yeah, he's with one hand trying to
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: flex and tell a run read on the other hand
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: holding that connection, and like if he flexes both of
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: them too at the same rate, you know, you have
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to learn to do want. It's like turning your head
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: when you're driving without turning the real Yeah, like you
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: have to learn how to do that or else you're
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: gonna do some damage, very.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Much so, and Hopper's like, you need to think about
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: that a little bit more before we can have a lesson.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you're gonna do what I say or I'm
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: not gonna teach you because you're gonna crash the car
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: into the barrier of the freeway.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Right, and then we switched to fail POV, which is
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: actually a good POV.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Favorite bit of writing in both of these chapters is
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the faial section right here, really well done, showing a
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: little more context around why she likes she was planning
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: an argument that would pull his secrets from him. Right,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Like this idea of like she's not arguing just to
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: be angry, but like she wants to find things out.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: She wants to communicate, and it's just their way of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: communicating is by sparking arguments and in the yelling at
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: each other she gets information. Well, it reminds me a
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: little bit of the Buffy musical where they like they
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: sing relevant information to each other and that's how they
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: find out their deepest, darkest secrets is because they're stuck
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: singing them. In this emotional number that sounds intense, you know,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: It's funny because I had a friend who like skipped
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the musical. He was like, I don't really think it's
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: it's just a musical episode. It's not really relevant. The
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: problem is so many secrets are revealed, and so because
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: they have to sing their emotions and so they reveal
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: things they've been hiding from each other for like a
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: season and a half at this point, and so all
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the relationships change after the musical, and so if you
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: skip that episode, you're like, what why are they I
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: don't understand why are they treating each other? Why are
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: they having these arguments? I don't get it. So, yeah,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: it's just it's I'm sorry about the tangent, but yeah.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Don't apologize for tangents on this podcast.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry for apologizing. What am I thinking? That's
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: been a like I said, I'm a little off today.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Fayo's thinking about how it's been a week
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: since they've lived Malden and her and parent are working
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: on reconnecting. They still have some more reconnc to figure out,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: but like they've been remembering very some very important reasons
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: why they got married. Hint, hint, nuts nutgewink wink, Brandon Sanderson,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: You're so explicit and not Wow.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she banged the shit out of him.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, she rode him into the sunset, and
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: it's like, did I not tire him out?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? There's a couple of lines there where you're
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: just like, god, damn. But there's one moment where he says,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: you sounded I don't know, Barnett, woman, you sounded jealous,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: which you can definitely substitute smelled, right, Yeah.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah. He he wakes up from being
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: kicked out of the dream by Hopper and immediately goes
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: into trying to be like, I didn't sleep with Berlin,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and if I feel they have the whole car. It's
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: more communication than they've had about this in a long time.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: It is nice that he does at least, Yeah, do
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: that little substitution of you sound? Yes, But he is
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: attempting to talk to her about the things he's smelling
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: from her. He's attempting it. He's making it a attempt.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: An attempt is being made, and it doesn't go horribly.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: It doesn't resolve anything, but it doesn't blow up. So
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: that's good.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: No, And I love her. She trusts him because she's
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: like Berlaine does not have the skill to deal with you.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: There's no like I had to seduce you, marry you,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: basically tie you up in order to get Yeah.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, what was it was? What was the It's
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: so funny.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: It took me part the better part of a year.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Not to mention considerable trouble to seduce you, and then
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: it only worked because there was a marriage involved.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I've known people like that.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: It's I also love the part the implication that, like, well,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: if Beryline was doing it just to sleep with you, Like,
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: look what all of these things I had to do
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: to get to sleep with you. I had to marry
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: you to get to because you know that she married
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: him for so much more than reason.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly exactly.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I like the banter there, even though I hate the
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: subject material. I do like the banter, but I think that.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: It's important to show that married couples are lustful for
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: each other, right, Like it's better than the oh you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: boomer humor my wife sucks and I can't I don't
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: want to go home to her or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I really love that there is this that
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: is no characters downplay their partners. In this series, no
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: character diminishes their partner except maybe a dark friend. Well
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: that's different, and usually they're doing it because to show
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: they're better than everybody else. But like, yeah, I really
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: like that. That's not what's going on here. There's never
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: any this like, oh my god, I can't believe my
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: wife is.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Such a there's a bit of that, like in the
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: boomers in world, right, like exactly, like some of the
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: in world boomers are a little bit.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Like that, well that just sucks his wife, My husband sucks.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Andone's like mm hmmm.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: And then there's the one misogynist Captain. You can't forget,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: the one misogynist in all of Randland.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Who doesn't trust women. I think he's just repressed and gay.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: That's I mean, honestly, that's probably what's going on. But yeah, no,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of talking down on the institution of marriage,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: like Matt being like I don't want to get married
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: man and Nan and Nair. But yeah, like none of
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: the married couples take that energy out on each other,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: and that is that is nice.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I guess valin Luca maybe with Lacille, might be the closest.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Even then, it seems like they have something going on.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Oh I don't get. I do not get what kind
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: of dynamic he's trying to create there, because it seems
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: like he selled for her and she doesn't like him
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: very much. But they're like somehow happily married.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: And I'm like what, No, I thought that she was like,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I think the went on there was she was super
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: jealous of an I neve for having caught his eye.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: And it's but jealousy is the only reason she went
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: after him.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: But like, no, she's doting on him. She seems to
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: like him. Okay, she has the whole like no. Matt
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: describes her as being very doting on him and very
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: sweet on him. They have something going on. Also, they've
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: only been married for like six months at that point,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: so you know, entrenched tiredness has not yet had a
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: chance a sudden fair enough.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Jokes about this communication means I won't have any secrets left,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I doubt that. I'm like, yeah, didn't
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you just kill a man in hiding? Like parents? Then
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: later is like, I wonder what happened.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: To h I think secret keeping abilities are just fine.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: She's got some secrets. She's yeah, no one knows what happens.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: She's like, do you know what happened to Mesa? No,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: nobody seems to know what happened to Mesmo, Like you
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: stabbed him in the face.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, repeatedly literally, And parent doesn't smell a lie at all.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: It's wild. Yeah, Jesus Christ, that how can be at
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: he smells emotions and she doesn't feel guilty about.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Lying, right, she doesn't feel guilt about killing him.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: No, I love this line. She had spent less than
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: two months as a captive, but had seemed like years.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Fourth wall shatout.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: That's Brandon going, Yes, I know how long it felt
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: like she was a prisoner, because it was three books
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: that came, it was nearly a decade.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: But a real time reality check in world, it was
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: only two months. It's good to just ground us in it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: It felt like years, but it was not years in
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: terms of the in world timeline.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: M hm. So no matter how much the character's changed,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: it was only two months, and so they can't.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Change that much, right exactly. And then she goes on
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: a long thoughtful thing, which I think actually does merit
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: iteration because she's not reattering the same point of Verdever, again,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: she actually takes a long, thoughtful exploration through the fact
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: that she matured a lot. She was a brat who
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: was not able to think beyond her own nose and
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Malden was a profound growing up experience, and she has
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: very interesting thoughts about it. I like it.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I think it's worth reading. It's
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: definitely her saying, you know, I cringe at some of
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the things I used to do, which like, honestly, if
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: you're not cringing at things you used to do, you're
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: not growing up. You're not getting older, you're not maturing, right,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, and I think for Fayel and again
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: it's another bit of fourth wall breaking where Sanderson says, yeah,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: that behavior was very childish, and it was written to
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: be childish and now we've grown beyond that.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I love the part where like she
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: doesn't even remember specifically what had set her off about,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: like being mad at paren that one time she made
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: him go through the ways, like we remember, yeah, we
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: the audience or we've been arguing about it for years,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: But for her it was such a non issue because
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: she was being so childish that she doesn't even remember
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the specifics and like that adds depth to her shallowness
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: at the time, if that makes.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Sense, right, right, that it was such a large reaction
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: over something that in the end doesn't even matter.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah at all, in the end, it doesn't even mean
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah, So then her and Paren talk about infidelity
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: in both of their contexts, and she she thinks about
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: roll On, right, this is kind of you know, we're
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: heading towards the roll On burial thing, and she talked.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: He thinks about how the brotherless had asked for much
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: but demanded nothing, and how that complicates her feelings with
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: helping having them killed with Paren, but also like there
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: was no alternative accept having them get killed by a parent.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: The whole conflict was happening, and she shouted and that
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: distracted him. And you know, we're building up to the
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: funeral guilt. She's pondering over it before she gets to
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: exit the tent, and she manages to talk Paren back
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: to sleep basically so that way she can go and
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: do a ritual to actually discharge these feelings of guilt
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and complication around Rollan that she's having. Oh yeah, Paren
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: wonders what Rand will think of how the Messima mission
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: completely failed, which I don't think they ever talk about it,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: which is sort of a disappointment.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, yeah, it just Rand has completely forgotten
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: about it. At this point. He's just like, parent, I
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: need you back. Where the fuck you bin.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Like dealing with your zealot. I'm sorry, I'm doing my job.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't supposed to be that complicated like this,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: bring him to me so I can tell him to
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: stop screwing around. And it's like, but by the time
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: he would deliver the message, it was too late, like
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: paring end of the threat.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: It's fine, fine, it's fine, it's over, it's whatever.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Bane and Chiad are staying guys shine because they got
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: taken legitimately.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, so if you finally gets parenta go to
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: sleep and leaves the tent, and Band and Chiad are
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: helping her organize this little gathering with the others because
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: the guy's shinitude of the others was really messed up,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: and so they're like willing to bend their own honor
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit to acknowledge that part of their lives
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and like help out. But yes, they are keeping white
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: on because they were taken legitimately by Ieel in battle
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: and they will serve their year in a day, which
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: conveniently now is owed to Gaul, which makes her a
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: very fun situation because.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: In battle he killed twelve people, right, So I mean
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: we're definitely setting all up to be much more badass.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: He used to be sort of mid level Idel warrior,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: but like, he's definitely gotten a promote hanging out with Paren.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like, oh yeah, and.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Like and then when we see him later in the
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: World of Dreams, he's super badass, right, So Dall definitely
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: has gotten some badass points here and going into Malden
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: killing twelve guy shot or twelve other warriors, right, which
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: is just insane to both of which happened to be
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the owners of Bane and Chiad.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Right, And he was really only trying to get Chiods right, right,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: he accidentally got Baines too, and chiod is like, well,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm gonna have to make a bridal wreath
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: for him now that I can torture him more in
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: a marriage than out of fun.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's more and they talk. God,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: it's the foreshadowing and all the earlier books where they're like, oh,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: the best way to become someone's you know, betrothed. It
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: has basically become guy Shine to them, and a year later,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: sure enough, the bridal wreath is going to be laid
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: at their feet and like that's exactly what's happening here, right,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's and yeah, I like the way the
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: symmetry of it. I like the way it's kind of
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: they set it up. I feel like in a way
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: that forces gaul to not necessarily have the power over them,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: even though he has power over them, right, Like the
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: weird way honor works, It's like the sub has more
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: power over the dom in this situation, the guy shining
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: has like because they're like doing all these things for
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: him when he's like, oh my god, when I'm marrying you,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna owe you so much. You're gonna be going
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: to be like the servant who has all my secrets
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: and can throw it in my face and like, yeah,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the way she's getting to know him in all his
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: private moments, like it's it would be rough. It would
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: be rough to have have your like the woman you
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to court be a servant.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: It seems like a pretty weird dynamic. Yeah, ye start
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: out with only the Iel could pull it off. Yeah, sure,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And I don't know that they are, like and the
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: whole thing where she had's like, well, I guess he's
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: he's tried so hard to get my attention, I'm gonna
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: have to marry him. Is like, not my favorite reason
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: to marry someone.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: But I think she's just fronting on that. I think
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: she's actually very impressed with all the things he's done
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: and like all attention he's given.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: But she's also making sure that his marriage to her
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: is not going to be what he wanted. So it's
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: just like the Taming of the Shrew. Energy will never
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: run out in this dynamic. And I, on the one hand,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: it's funny, and on the other hand, it makes me
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: kind of bummed out for Gaul. But whatever, not my circus,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: not my monkeys. They're gonna be fun and comedic for
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the rest of the books. And Gall is a badass
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: who can handle it, so it's fine.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I have very little to say about the funeral.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the funeral is they each have a token
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: of the person that they were kept captive by and
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: or killed. They've been retrieved by others from the battlefield,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: so they can burn these items and say a few
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: words and kind of just have closure on those relationships.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: It's a sad scene. All of these women struggle with
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: what they had to do.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially the ones who were directly involved in the
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: killing of the men in question, like the maiden who
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: died and one of the men they just fell in
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: the battle in general, but two of the others died
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: because of actions taken by people in this party, like
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: literally stabbing their friends in the back. Right. Like, there's
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of complicated feelings, and I do think that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: this was a necessary ritual, Like as much as we
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: have complicated feelings about all the shit that went down
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: with Roland and the Brotherless, like the emotional attachments these
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: characters created was very real, and you do need to
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: respect the abrupt and ragged edge of how it ended.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: But I also do think Jordan would never have had
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: a funeral like this. He would have had something, He
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: would have had something, but it would have been like
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: an internal thought and like very much internalized guilt. They
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: would never I don't think they would go do this
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: public display.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: It's not public. It's a private an event. It's just
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: for the people that the ritual is.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Four sorry, public should be. But it's not like she's
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: not doing it by herself.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Right, Honestly, I think you're super right. Jordan would have
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: had the most toxic expression of this, just an internal resolution.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: The fact that they do it in a group makes
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: it actually have some emotional closure and the characters are
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: not going to be traumatized by this in the same
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: way moving forward because they got together, held each other,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: said words in each other's presence, like it's an actual ritual.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: And what a waste of like good trauma, Like really, come.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: On, okay, write or brain. I think we've had enough
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: trauma from this plotline. I'm happy to put a bow
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: on it and set it aside neatly.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: There's a what is with the with the brotherless in
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: parents Camp? How did how did he get into parents Camp?
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Was he like a Shines got it? Got it? Got it? Yeah.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: We talked about this in the last episode that Paren
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: absorbs a lot of ideal from his captive enemies because
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: he had ideal taking captives in the battle, and so
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: he ends up with a lot of guyshine ayeel like
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: in his ranks ultimately, and it's a mention of Sulan
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Sjula is not actually doing anything, but she is the
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: person who captured this guy apparently and has him. So
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: good for her, she's here, she's kicking ass.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Failed this thing about how the world's a sadder place
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: for the necessity of killing these men, I kind of
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: think about, like, you know, who made it necessary, Galina,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: because if she had passed on the message like she
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: said she was going to, they could have been hidden
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: away in a safe place where they could have been approached,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: not in the middle of a battle. Yeah, and the
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: men wouldn't have had to be killed. They could have
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: even come with them as allies.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, they totally could have happened. But no, a
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: dark friend had to do dark friendly things and make
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: things worse without even knowing exactly what she was making worse.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: That's really I lay these deaths glean his feet. I
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: think that they like if they'd been hiding up where
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: parent had told them to at the time, instead of
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: obviously trapped in a burning building and having just been
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: pulled out, Right, they could have been there, spears put away,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: and parent could have approached them peacefully under a flag
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: of truce.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. Roland might have not even been there. He
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: might have been off do another stuff because he's like, Oh,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: you're up in the tower, you'll be fine. I'm going
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: to go to the front lines and gotten killed completely
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: off screen without any of this baggage. Yeah. I do
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: like that. She reflects on her father's wisdom about war here,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: like that sometimes you had to kill people you liked
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: just because you met them on the wrong side of
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: the battlefield. Like the fact that she's got that general
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: voice in her head able to give her the like
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: coping mechanism to be like, sometimes the world is a
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: really sad, shitty place where there's no good choices and
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: you just have to live with that.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: She's not inventing that on her own. She got that
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: from her dad.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, And that kind of brings and
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: then sort of end the POV with, uh, I think
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Roland actually loved me, which is kind of it's just sad.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we get this beautiful Saldetian proverb the
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: past was a field of embers and ash, the remnants
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: of the fire that was the present. Like that's bleak
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: and beautiful and just so Borderlander stoic. And the title
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: and the title and the title yes, a little poetic.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: The title actually got a little poetic riffing out of
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: a proverb. You know, it's not literally a description of
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: of you know whatever.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: But just you know, talking about funerals and death and
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: stuff like that.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: And it's a funeral pyre. I mean, they literally did
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: a burning ceremony. So yeah, And I don't know if
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: Roland actually loved her. I don't know if she could
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: determine that. I don't know if that's true. I don't
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: know if that's the closure that I needed from her,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: but it's the closure she has, so there it.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Is he loved his captive so much.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't I don't know if you can love
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: someone it. I don't know if that's a thing.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: But the the whole point is he was planning to
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: set her free because he love like he was like,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I holding you captive is wrong. I need to not
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: be doing that because I love you.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: And that's what All of the four that are being
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: honored were kind of more or less in that direction.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: And that's why we can say, oh, they were some
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: of the good ones. They weren't quite shydough right. They
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: were brotherless, and that is a meaningful.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Distinction, and we get that distinction with one of the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: women who says, I'm just going to go sleep you know,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: basically I'm looking for another brotherless because like that model
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: is something that I like, you know, I like men
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: who work on rigs. I guess big rigs, something like that.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I find her whole, Like I'm just gonna go sleep
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: with another brotherless? Is he shares the same political affiliation
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: as your ex? I don't. That doesn't seem like a
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: good enough basis, But okay.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's a minimum.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: You know, clearly a more sex motivated person than I am.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's more what I would say is more
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: of a trauma response and looking for safety.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which I mean they've been through a lot. Who
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: am I to say what coping strategies are correct as
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: long as it's between consenting adults. Whatever, you get your
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: therapy where you get it.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: And that flashes back to paren who of course wakes
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: up and goes, yep, F feel snuck out, like she thinks
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: she's all sneaky about it, and he's like there she
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: goes again. Probably but of course he's dumb, and he's
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: like going to going to the bathroom.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Well, you know how much girls have to pee.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Trust me, I do know. It's almost as much as
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I do. I have a tiny bladder. Also, I drink
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of tea in case you have you never
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: have to stop the recording to go pee. I always do.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: I'm a chronically dehydrated person and it's not healthy. And yeah, yeah,
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: he reiterates yet again that he needs to decide, to
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: make a decision about being decisive, and he feels very
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: sure about that.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: The more he thought about it, the more determined he grew.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Instead of making decisions, he'd avoided them. He and then
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: the decision to face his problems brought him a measure
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: of peace. But your problem is avoiding them decisions, So
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: you roll over and go to bed now that I'm
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: just yeah, it's very tangled logic.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: Paren is very much thinking like he's in book two
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: and afraid of everything and confused of everything, in naive
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: and being manipulated by Moraine's like most mild of reprimands,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: like this is not Book twelve, Paren, it just isn't.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: No, because like he's dealt with the fact that he's
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: He's like, well, I've led this group of people together.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that whatever their their allegiances are. I'm
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: going to put them together to form one front. We're
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: gonna kick ass. Like, I don't know, it's just I
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: don't even know how to articulate what I'm frustrated with
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: about this, because it just it doesn't feel like the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: PAREN that went through Malden.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't, It really doesn't. It feels like it
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: feels like the PAREN that decided to get engage to fight.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You, right yeah. Yeah. This is this is the parent
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: whose parent who family just discovered his family died.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, very much.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Like this is him right after, you know, like maybe
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: even right before the Battle of the Two Rivers, when
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: he's questioning whether why are people following my advice? Why
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: are people listening to me? I don't get it, Like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I need to make a decision to be a leader
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: in order to tell them all to go back to
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: the Two Rivers and fight the troulus as a unified force, right,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Like that's the level of PAREN we're dealing with here.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, I guess it's possible for any
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: writer to do it, but it just feels very stark,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: and it feels like Brandon Sanderson did it on all
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: a bunch of characters with Rand. We were almost saying
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: he did went too far forward though, that he did
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: a after Veins of Gold Rand scene.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: It's it's a real mixed bag, herky jerky fits and
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: starts kind of thing that Brandon is powering through in
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: this first book.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm so glad he did it. I'm so
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: glad it's done. I'm so glad we get this end.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: But podcasting through it, I'm seeing the differences because, I mean,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: because that's what we're doing. We're picking it apart. We're
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: picking out the little tiny bits, and it's very hard
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: not to amplify the differences when you're picking it apart
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: like this.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, his writing does not hold up to the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: same level of scrutiny, which like kind of reminds me
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: about how I've been feeling about the show. Is like
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: I can't pick the show apart like I pick the
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: books apart and have a good time. I can't pick
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Sanderson's books apart like I pick Jordan's books apart and
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: have the same time. Like they're just so different that
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: the level of nitpicking has to be calibrated differently.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: It's to me, it's the difference between a print and
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: a painting. Sure, yeah, from a distance it looks very,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: very similar. You really can't tell a difference. It looks good, right,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: but you get up close. One is just ink printed
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: two D on a poster with a certain amount of
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: like digital information loss, right, Whereas a painting, you're seeing
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: the strokes, you're seeing the breaststrokes, You're seeing the physicalness
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: of the painting, You're seeing the thickness of it. You're
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: seeing the colors the way they're supposed to be, and
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: you can really see the technique that goes into crafting
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: that and how those images relate to each other, whereas
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: with the printed thing, it's, yeah, this is the done product,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: and I can see the done product, but I can't
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: really talk about how it was painted.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, And you know, each of those things
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: has their own purpose and their own audience and their
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: own application, and it's not necessarily that one's better than
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: the other, but one is significantly more than the other.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: And you know, I have to go back and be like,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: when I read these for the first time, they were,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways a breath of fresh air
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: because I was so Jordan had gone over and over
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: some of these same areas to make forward progress in
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: a way that and have these things spelled out felt
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: very real fresh, you know. It was like the thoughts
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: that I had were confirmed in the text, right, the
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: suspicions that I had were laid out, and that felt
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: really good the first time I read it. Now going back,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, yeah, now you're laying out everything that
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: I was suspecting, and I don't mean to really suspect
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: it anymore. It's just there in black and white. So
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's funny that I've had a very different experience.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like podcasting through it.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: And reading it, yeah, big time. And I definitely feel
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: like the wildly variable lengths of our episodes prove that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: we are struggling to correctly calibrate what we're doing well.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: But I think that's part of it, but I'll think
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: it also think it's the wildly varying quality of these chapters.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Some of them are really good and drive PLoP forward
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: and really, you know, are obvious that these characters are
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: doing good things, you know, especially around like a Gwain
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: and somewhat around Matt like rand. I mean, but some
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: of these other characters it's it's clear that he's just
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: floundering and writing them in place just to almost do
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: character studies on them before he starts moving forward with them.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: So we'll get through it. But it's a weird experience.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, with that being said, I think that's that's
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: all we have to say about those two chapters.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at less than an hour and a half, less
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: than an hour and fifteen minutes through two chapters, that
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: was Yeah, Whereas the episode I'm currently editing for release
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: in two days is like two hours long. Right, We're
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: really struggling to keep an even pace here. But oh well,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Think that's fine. I don't think it's an even pace
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: has to be the most important thing, because I think
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: the story is a little herky jerky at this point.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Yep, that makes sense. But yeah, that's all that's all
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: we got. So everyone stay tuned for more exciting chapter coverage.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: No, and there will be actually the next chapter really exciting. Right.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: The next chapter is some are all getting out and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: and and like brand embracing.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Oh the last that could be done.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Last that could be done, And we're doing the chapter
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: after that one too, because it's more like it's cod
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Twayne sort of wrapping up and hanging out.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Just a few pages. Wow, that's really short.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: So we're doing two next time, but that's one of
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: them is going to be pretty meaty at least. Yeah,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: and they only just looks like it's a wrap up
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and then we got Gowan and Cheerium. Then
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: we got off and up.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: Is coming and once we hit Hinder's tap, the rest
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: of the book is like pretty meaty. There's a lot
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: of really exciting Sandal Lanch happens, right, And that's that's
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: the other thing about Sanderson is right, this is something
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: that's very much his books start off pretty slow. He
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: writes a lot and only makes one or two points
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: in his early chapters, and then a lot of it
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: comes together at the end, you know, in a way
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: that's pretty cool and exciting. And he really does Sandra
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Lanche this book.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: We'll get there, but yeah, for now, that's all we got,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: So let's turn recording.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Bye.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listenstening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:08:02
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• 1:08:05
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• 1:08:09
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• 1:08:13
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• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: at foxendravenmedia dot com.