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Matt Gaetz: Venmo Money, Venmo Problems · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vitor, and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: guest hosting with me today is my friend Liz Smith,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: one of the smartest Democratic strategists in politics. She spent
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: most of this cycle at the DNC heading up their
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: efforts to deal with third-party candidates like our buddy RFK Jr.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Liz, welcome.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Tommy. I wish
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: we were under better circumstances, but look forward to talking
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: about the dumpster fire in Washington, D.C.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: With you.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really, it's bleak. It's bleak.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Speaking of bleak, on today's show, we're going to talk
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: about the latest in the Matt Gaetz for Attorney General saga,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: how the race for DNC chair is shaken out, and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Liz's thoughts on how Democrats can shake things up to
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: win again, especially when it comes to media strategy. Then
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Senator Jon Tester stops by to talk with Dan about
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: his tough race in Montana, how he outperformed the national ticket,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and how Democrats can win again in the heartland states.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: But first, we have a flurry of new cabinet picks
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: that are a continuation of the theme of Donald Trump
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: picking his unqualified friends to run huge, important agencies.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Wonderful.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: We talked on the Tuesday pod about the race for
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary. Apparently, the transition co-chair, Howard Lutnick, eventually lost
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: that race because he's now been named to be Commerce Secretary. Well,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: he will still have a big role in implementing Trump's tariffs.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Trump also picked Linda McMahon, his other transition co-chair, to
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: run the Department of Education. McMahon is a longtime ally
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: and donor of Trump's. She served as SBA administrator during
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Trump's first term alongside her husband, Vince McMahon. She's the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: co-founder of WWE. She apparently doesn't have a lot of
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: qualifications to be in the job, but we'll get to that.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: But the biggest cabinet head-scratcher headline to date, or at
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: least in the last couple of days, is that Trump
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: nominated Dr. Oz to be the head of CMS, the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services's It's worth just spending
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: a second to unpack what CMS does, because a lot
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: of people probably don't know and how absurd it is
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to put Dr.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Oz in there.
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  Speaker 1: The CMS was described by the New York Times as, quote,
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  Speaker 1: probably the most challenging technical policy and political job in government.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: CMS provides coverage to about 150 million Americans, and by
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: some estimates, a quarter of all government spending flows through CMS,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: while Dr. Oz is a heart surgeon who also plays
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: a lifestyle guru on daytime TV where he hawks dubious
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: weight loss cures and analyzes different shapes of poop. His
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: government experience is limited to losing a Senate race to
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: John Fetterman in 2022, where the lasting mark he made
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: on the electorate was this clip.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: Thought I'd do some grocery shopping.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: I'm at Wagner's and my wife wants some vegetables for.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Crudite, right? So here's a broccoli. That's two bucks, not
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: a ton of broccoli there. There's some asparagus.
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: That's $ 4.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Yep. Carrots.
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: That's $ 4 more. That's $ 10 of vegetables there.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And then we need some guacamole.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: That's $ 4 more. And she loves salsa. Yeah, salsa there. $ 6.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: Must be a shortage of salsa.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: Guys, that's $ 20 for crouton. This doesn't include the tequila.
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's outrageous.
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: We got Joe Biden to thank for this.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: No one has ever made a veggie plate sound weirder. Liz,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: any thoughts on this kind of latest group of picks
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: or just on this Trump team generally, how it's shaping up?
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's fucking terrifying. I really don't want
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: to sugarcoat it. Looking and I do work for Adam
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: Schiff and he had a really good point on this
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: sort of crop of candidates is that, yes, they are
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: all unqualified. But that's sort of the point here. Because
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: what Donald Trump is trying to do is to show
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: that he can roll the U.S. Senate, that he can
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: get these completely unqualified people through the Senate. And if
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: he can get them to do that, they will do
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  Speaker 3: literally anything for him. And, you know, what I think
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: is troubling for most people, for me, is, yes, seeing
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  Speaker 3: these people are unqualified and that the main qualification is
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: their loyalty to Donald Trump, the fact that they won't
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: say no. And we know from people inside the White
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: House during the first Trump term that Donald you had
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: people like Mattis, you had people like John Kelly, not
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: perfect guys, whatever, but they were sort of bulwarks. They
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: sort of pushed back on him. And now it doesn't
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: look like Donald Trump will have any checks on the
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: White House, any checks on his worst impulses. And I
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  Speaker 3: think that's something that should be really scary to people.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this is by and large, I mean, shaping
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: up to be a team of just loyalists. There are
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: some kind of hawkish establishment types, Marco Rubio at the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: State Department, Elise Stefanik at the U.N., But I kind
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: of think Trump doesn't really care about those agencies. He's
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: focused on like Matt Gaetz as attorney general, Pete Hegseth
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of the Department of Defense, Tom Homan as his border czar,
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  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, deputy chief of staff. These are hardcore ideologues
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: who believe first and foremost in MAGA and they will
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: do what Trump says when it comes to punishing his enemies.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: There was a great quote in the Bulwark that said
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: all these other attorney general picks came to Trump and
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: they started talking about like grand legal theories and And
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Matt Gaetz was like, yeah, I'm going to go over
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: there and chop off some heads. And Trump was like, cool,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I want that guy. So, you know, not great stuff,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: as you noted, pretty scary.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And I mean, I think with Matt Gaetz, especially, that
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: was the first one where we were like, oh, my God,
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: this is like, this is real. This is what's happening. And,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: you know, I would just remind people that when we
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: looked at the exits from the election, voters top issues
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: were inflation and and the border, not like whatever the
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: hell this is. And this is not acting on any
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: sort of mandate. And there's no indication that these guys
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: are being put in to lower the price of eggs
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: or even necessarily to secure the border as much as
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: do mass deportations. And that is ultimately probably some backlash
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: that Trump will have to deal with. But a lot
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: of us were out there warning that Trump 2.0 would
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: be on a vengeance tour. He would be all about
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: chaos and doing things for his own personal benefit. And
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: choices to date certainly seem that way.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it certainly does. Yeah, I agree with you.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of voters who would be like,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't vote for a military purge of generals who
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: weren't Republicans.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: That's weird.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And just to hammer this CMS and Dr. Oz thing
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit, just because I think it matters. I mean,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: CMS employs about 6,000 people, according to the Wall Street Journal.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: The head of CMS oversees the operation and administration of Medicare, Medicaid,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the CHIPS, Children's Health Care, programs. It's just this massive
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: management job. And they also issue regulations to insurers, state governments,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: healthcare providers that reverberate throughout the entire industry. And so
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: lest you think, well, certainly Dr. Oz will have some
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: adult supervision. No, the guy's going to report into the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Secretary of Health and Human Services, who is supposed to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: be RFK Jr. So a wildly technical, important job that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: oversees the healthcare of 150 million Americans And the biggest
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: goober imaginable will be running it. He can't even, you know,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: figure out how to buy a crudite, as he calls it,
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  Speaker 1: without sounding weird.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And the RFK Jr. stuff especially, I think, is really,
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: really troubling. I could go on forever about that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Let's dig into that. I think you're right. That's very important.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: So before we get to RFK, I mean, there is
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: this drip, drip, drip of Matt Gaetz news that is
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: driving the news cycle. Apparently, a hacker got access to
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: a bunch of secure files from lawyers representing witnesses in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the Gates case, including testimony from someone Gates is said
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to have slept with when she was 17, as well
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: as a corroborating witness account. ABC News reported this morning
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  Speaker 1: that Gates paid more than $ 10, 000 via Venmo, PayPal and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: good old fashioned checks to two women who later testified
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: to the House Ethics Committee. That report is based on
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  Speaker 1: committee documents that ABC was able to get a hold of.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And in a fun little side note, a lawyer who
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: represented women who testified to the committee about Matt Gaetz
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: said he flew them to New York to sleep with them,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: watch him go on Fox News, and then they all
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  Speaker 1: went out together to see Pretty Woman on Broadway.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Liz, first question.
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  Speaker 1: Do we think Matt Gaetz fancies himself as like the
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: political Richard Gere, or had he not seen the movie?
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  Speaker 2: What do we think happened here? I mean.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Could he be more of a cartoonish villain? I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I think the first rule of hiring sex workers, hookers, whatever,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: is don't write a check to them. Second rule, don't
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  Speaker 3: Venmo them and put the memo as tuition assistance. And
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: maybe the third rule is don't take them to the
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  Speaker 3: Broadway adaptation of the all-time classic Pretty Woman about the
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: hooker with a heart of gold. I mean, you really
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: can't make this stuff up. And it shows that this guy...
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: like really has no regard for anything, for doing anything appropriately.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: And this is someone whose only interactions with the Justice
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: Department are being investigated by it. And it is such
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: a slap in the face to the process. And honestly,
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: it's a real slap in the face to all the
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: Republicans in the U.S. Senate that Donald Trump is going
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: to ask them to approve someone who is not only unqualified,
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  Speaker 3: but on every level is a red flag for running
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  Speaker 3: the DOJ.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Top law enforcement position in the land. And he's a
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  Speaker 1: creep and a scumbag and they all hate him. But hey,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: you're going to have to vote on him. So the
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: harder question beyond how we scored the pretty woman tickets
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: is how much do you think Democrats should focus on
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: this set of allegations that we just talked about versus
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: all the.
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  Speaker 2: Other ways Gates is unqualified for the job and could
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: do damage?
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I heard you guys talking about this
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  Speaker 3: the other day on the show. I think it was
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: about Pete Hegseth and his tattoos, right? Like why on
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: earth out of all the things we could talk about,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: are we obsessing over his freaking tattoos? And this is
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: just generally the problem with Donald Trump. It's generally the
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: problem with people he puts up is that there are
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: so many different things you can go at. I think
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: what's going to be really important with Matt Gaetz, with
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: any of these nominees, is to really, really, really try
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: to stay focused and bring it back to, okay, yeah,
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: like taking a couple sex workers to Pretty Woman on Broadway,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: it's absurd, it's ridiculous. But focus on the ways that
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: what he's going to do is actually going to hurt
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: real people. And make it about the impacts and the
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: chaos that he would bring to the DOJ. The hookers,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: all that stuff, that will get the headlines. But we
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: really need to make sure that people understand that this
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: isn't just a partisan back and forth about people's very
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: obvious personal failings. It should be a back and forth
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: about why this would make their life worse, their life harder.
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  Speaker 3: And Matt Gaetz, as Attorney General of the U.S., is
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  Speaker 3: a complete vote for chaos. He's a chaos agent. He's
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: going in there, as you said, to chop off heads
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: for Donald Trump. And that should be terrifying to people.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And so I think generally my advice there and across
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: the board is we've really got to triage. Focus on
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: the important stuff. Don't just go down every weird rabbit
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: hole with these people.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, as you and I know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: because we did communication for so long, I mean, the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: hardest part in these fights is getting it covered and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: reaching people outside of Washington, reaching actual voters and, you know,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: creating a political cost for the people who, you know,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: will have to vote for Matt Gaetz. Because I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: this story, I think, is useful because people are not
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: going to flip past this one when it gets served
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: to them by like the Daily Mail on TikTok, right?
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Like you want to know more about what Matt Gaetz
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: was doing in New York on this trip. Um, it's
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: got the details, there's drugs, there's sex, there's all of it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: There's the funny details about, yeah, I think he put, um,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: in some of the Venmo comments to these women, he
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: put in being my friend.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And then one time he wrote being awesome. So thank
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you for that, Matt. But you're right.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I think you have to use that, use that interest
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: in coverage to raise a whole set of broader issues
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: about why he could do damage and actually harm real people.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: The weird thing about this is, is like, there is
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: this report this morning that some of these files, um,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: from an unrelated civil case, against Gates were gotten by
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a hacker. And I'm a little worried about that part
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of the narrative confusing things. I mean, like, we don't
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: want him to look like a victim. We want him
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: to sell a narrative that the deep state is going
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: after him. We also don't know who hacked these files.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, it could be someone who decides he or
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: she wants to dox the women who are victims who
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: apparently gave video testimony.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping this ethics committee report will leak, but I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: am a little worried that this sort of hacking piece
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: of it confuses things.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: It always does. It always does. But I'm with you.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I hope they release the ethics investigation. It would be
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: nice if they released it. It didn't have to be
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: leaked so that we could look at all of this.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: But during the hearings, all of that, I think it's
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: just really important to focus on what the really dangerous
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: things that he would want to do as attorney general.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And he's picked because Trump wants someone who will not
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: check his worst impulses and do all the things that
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: he said he wanted to do to his political enemies
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: in his first term.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: All right, let's go to our buddy RFK Jr. Deep
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: breaths for both of us. So the Bulwark reported yesterday
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that in a speech given in 2020, RFK seemed open
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to the idea that the government might have created the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: COVID pandemic. Let's listen to a clip from that speech.
• 13:55
  Speaker 7: Many people argue that this pandemic was a plandemic and
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: it was planned from the outset and it's part of
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: a sinister scheme. I can't tell you the answer to that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: I don't have enough evidence. A lot of it feels
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: very planned to me.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I will tell you this.
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: If you create these mechanisms for control, they become weapons
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: of obedience. authoritarian regimes, no matter how beneficial or innocent
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: the people who created them.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: So does Trump not notice or care that Robert F.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Kennedy is accusing him of unleashing the virus? That can't
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: go over well, right?
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: How weird is that? And what you saw and what
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: you heard in that clip, it's sort of vintage RFK Jr.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And I think you talked about this with Brandy on
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the podcast, which is that, you know, one, he's full
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: of shit. This guy manipulates facts, then he hears, says whatever.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: But two, he always tries to frame it in a
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: way of like, hey, just asking questions, just asking questions. And,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: you know, he's someone who said, just raised questions about
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: whether 9-11 was an inside job, whether the 1993 World
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Trade Center bombing was an inside job. You know, whether
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: the pandemic was an inside job, apparently perpetrated by the
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Trump administration in the deep state. He says tap water
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: turns kids gay and transgender, that no vaccines are safe
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: and effective. And, you know, the most troubling thing about
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to me, about him is, again, what I was talking
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: about with you before is the real life impacts of this, right?
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: This isn't a guy who just goes out and says
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: irresponsible things. This is someone who was a lead spreader
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: of misinformation during the pandemic. He profited widely off of that.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: But if you go back to 2018, he was someone
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: who helped stoke this really bad public health crisis in
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: American Samoa. where he spread propaganda that was against the
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: measles vaccine. And you know what the end effect of
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: that was? Dozens and dozens of people there died, most
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: of them kids. And, you know, if you scaled that
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: up for the U.S., that would be, you know, I
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: think I saw online 130, 140,000 people dead. So what
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: he is doing would have really, really real life effects.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the most important point. I mean,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: he could At the bare minimum, he could make people
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: more hesitant to get vaccines and reduce the uptick in
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: measles vaccinations and lead to a massive outbreak. It's also
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: it's always interesting to me how Trump is never held
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: responsible for the things the government did when he's in charge.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: It was always the deep state.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: His supporters simultaneously want him to be seen as this
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: all powerful, strong man, but also the constant victim.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: And it drives me nuts.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: But you're right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I do think these comments, it tells us
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: more than just about RFK's vaccine views. It's just a
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: guy who sees conspiracies everywhere. It's like antidepressants serve mass shootings.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: 5G towers are controlling us. HIV doesn't cause AIDS. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: for that person to be in charge of kind of
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: like collating and understanding and releasing medical research is very dangerous.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And correct me if I'm wrong, Liz, but I do
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: think that the anti-vaccine cause does seem to be like
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the first, second and third thing that he cares about.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It's like his primary motivation.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and, you know, that's why it was really, really,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: really frustrating to me in the last week when I
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: saw Governor Jared Polis, Democratic governor from Colorado, saw Cory Booker,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Democratic senator from New Jersey, coming out and praising the
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: pick and, you know, largely focusing on how RFK Jr.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: wants to take on chemicals in the food and agribusiness.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: And it's like, you are so freaking naive. if you
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: think that RFK Jr. is being picked to take on agribusiness,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: and you are more than naive, you're frankly an idiot
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: if you think that Donald Trump is going to allow
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: anyone in his administration to take on big business, to
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: take on agribusiness. This is sort of a smokescreen that
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: he uses, right? He goes out and he talks about
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: make America healthy again. Let's reduce childhood obesity, all of that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: But like, that's not what he's about. He's not about
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: raw milk. The thing that animates him, the thing that
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: has enriched him, you know, the thing that he has
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: made his biggest mark on is, um, on being an
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: anti-vaxxer and it's extremely dangerous. And so like, I'm begging,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: you know, Democrats get their stuff together. Don't go out
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: there and, you know, fall for his, his make America
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: healthy again, stick children. will get sick. Children will die
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: if this guy brings his anti-vax mentality to Washington, D.C.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: And that should be the focus.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think Robert F.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Kennedy has just been like a spokesperson who does a
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: lot of podcasts for many years, and now he's in
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: charge of something. And so we got to watch what
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: he does, not what he says. And I think you're right.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, all of these, there were all these articles
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in the campaign about Trump going to massive corporate interests
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: and saying, cut me a huge check and I'll advance
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: your agenda, whether it was, you know, the people who
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: wanted to undo the work Biden was doing to go
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: after monopolies. All the crypto people were thrilled to get
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: rid of Gary Gensler and have no rules. Never mind that,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: you know, some crypto companies collapsed and a bunch of
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: people got hurt. I think this is going to be
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: replicated in every single industry and agency, agriculture, GMOs, oil
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and gas. I mean, the incoming chief of staff, Susie Wiles,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: is a lobbyist. Seems to tell you a lot.
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: And you know, just generally going back to how Democrats
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: should handle this, you know, you had Cory Booker, Jared
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Polis on one side. Then I saw Jake Auchincloss, you know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: he's the congressman from Massachusetts. His parents are scientists. He
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: went on, he's been going on TV, going on like
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: Twitter thread storms, all of that, just really hammering all
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: of RFK Jr. 's most anti-science views and dangerous views.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: And I would love to see that sort of discipline
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: from Democrats on this. And I'm a broken record about this,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: but like Democrats have a great bench. We never use them.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: We always talk about our bench, but we never use them.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: And we know that with these picks, it's going to
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: be an opportunity for Democrats to come out of the
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: woodwork and speak out against them. So when it's a
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: pick like RFK Jr., have Jake Auchincloss, have Lauren Underwood,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: who is a nurse, talk about this. When it's someone
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: like Pete Hegseth, have Pat Ryan, who's already been out
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: there on this, and have Mikey Sherrill go out and
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: speak out about it. But I really, really would love
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: to see a coordinated, strategic... communications plan around this that
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: is not just treating everyone, every candidate like it's a
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: five alarm fire and where we're putting out some voices
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: who I think would be really respected.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's really smart.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I think we ought to be very focused on the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: messengers and their credibility and have the impact of their
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: words on the voters. But also, to your point, be
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: strategic about the fights we pick. Because the end goal,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the real goal is to get four Republican senators to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: vote against a pick or to privately tell Trump to
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: pull the nominee. I'm pretty skeptical that will happen. So
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the secondary goal is create a process and a narrative
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of stories that create some political damage
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: for Trump. And like you said, I think it's a
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: trap to just go nuts on every nominee because we
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: sound hyperbolic. And like, I think we also can't frame
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: our arguments as we're the defenders of the status quo
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: And he's a disruptor because a lot of people want that.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: And we also have to focus on things that people
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: care about. I mean, you mentioned the tattoo thing with
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth. My other hobby horse on this is Tulsi Gabbard,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: who should not be the next director of national intelligence.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: But everyone's calling her like Putin's puppet and a stooge
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and this and that.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't know.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: That sounds very like 2017 Mueller. It's Mueller time shit. Like,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: let's talk about how she has no qualifications. She's never
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: managed a big organization. She's never worked in the intelligence community.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I think we've got to be a little more substantive here.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I mean, look,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: she's done stuff like met with Bashar al-Assad and has
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: said things that do mirror some of Kremlin talking points,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: but there's no evidence that she's a Kremlin asset or
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: anything like that. And I think the second we start
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: saying things like that, we lose credibility. And what we
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: saw during the first Trump term is– if everything is
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: a vibe of alarm fire, if everything is World War III,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: then like nothing ends up mattering. And like when World
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: War III actually comes along, people will just be like, yeah, sure, sure.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: You're the boy who cried wolf. And so I really, really,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: really would like to see a much more disciplined approach
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: this time around and not just throwing out, you know,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the worst accusations against people, the most incendiary language. Just
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: because it will get you on cable, right? Let's be
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: strategic about how we handle these things.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: We don't want to go into just full-time MSNBC voice.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's enough to say, look, Tulsi
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Gabbard flew to Syria to meet with Assad in 2017.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: That was six years into him massacring his people. She
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a Putin stooge. I mean, like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: it's okay to meet with people you disagree with. But
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: then she defended him and claimed that Assad didn't use
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: chemical weapons.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Didn't gas people.
• 23:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: That in itself, enough.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: It should be disqualifying.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: The Russians invade Ukraine. She blames the Ukrainians for NATO expansion.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: We can debate whether NATO expansion was a good idea,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: but certainly this was just an act of naked aggression
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: by the Russians. Let's turn to the Democrats, because you
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: had a ringside seat to this whole cycle through Biden,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: through Harris. I want to talk to you about your
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: diagnosis of where things went wrong broadly, but also there's
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: been this kind of media debate. There's this dumb thing
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: about Democrats need their own Joe Rogan. That's a little silly,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: but clearly we need a new strategy. What in broad
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: strokes do you think that strategy entails?
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: First and foremost, meeting voters where they are. And it
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: means meeting them where they are on issues and meeting
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: them where they are in terms of where they're getting
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: their news. On the matter of issues, I worked on
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Tom Suozzi's special election in February of last year. And
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I thought it was going to be like sort of
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a good harbinger of like where things would go. And
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: he was able to win a tough race that, you know,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: national Republicans poured millions and millions of dollars in. And
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: that Democrats probably should have lost because the number one
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: issue was immigration. Rather than just like changing the subject
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: and saying, no, let's only talk about abortion. Let's only
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: talk about democracy. Tom leaned into immigration and he went
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: on the offensive on it and flipped the script and said,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: you know what? I want a bipartisan border bill. I'll
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: give you some stuff. I'll give you a little bit
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: of a wall if you want. And then I don't
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: need everything in return. But then the Republican said, went
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: along with Trump and said, no, no border deal, no
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: border bill. And we just hammered her every single day
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: and said that, you know, Tom wants a secure border.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: His opponent wants chaos because she, Donald Trump, think it
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: will help them at the border. And he ended up
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: winning by eight points. Crazy blowout. And at the time,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: people were saying, OK, this is going to be a
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: model for what Democrats should do. It was disappointing to
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: see that people didn't. take, that a lot of people
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: didn't take that. And what we saw in the exit
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: polls were top issues for voters writ large were inflation, costs,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: and the border. And national Democrats who didn't talk about
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: the border paid a price. National Democrats were going around
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: talking about Bidenomics, like it was a good thing and
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: everything is great. What are you talking about? GDP, stock market,
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: everyone's employed, the economy is great. Like, couldn't have sounded
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: more out of touch. And what I would do, and
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: what I would encourage people to do, I did work
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: with a lot of these candidates, is to look to
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: the people who won. You know, Tom did the great
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: stuff on immigration in the special in general. But then
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: look at Pat Ryan. Look at Marie Glusenkamp-Perez. Look at
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Angie Craig in Minnesota. Look at Jared Golden. These were
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: all of the top over-performers of the cycle. What are
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: the things that they all did? One, they all ran
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: ads saying we need to secure the border. They all
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: ran ads on costs and how they want to lower them.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: They all made sure to try to localize the race
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: versus getting trapped up in national stuff. And, you know,
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: some of them did a really, really good job. And
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: it's a fraught debate of like really blunting Republicans attacks
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: on trans issues. And that's something I think that we
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: need to figure out going forward is how we do
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: not let the Republicans use that as a cudgel against Democrats,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: but more so than just like criticizing Democrats. I want
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: us to look at these candidates who overperformed in these
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Trump districts. And let's also look at Tammy Baldwin in Wisconsin.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Let's look at Ruben Gallego in Arizona. How are they able,
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Alyssa Slotkin in Michigan. And a lot of the things
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: I mentioned with the candidates that I did some work
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: with apply to them as well.
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, Alyssa Slotkin is one I was thinking about
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: as you were talking because she was repeatedly attacked as
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris was. over the policy of the electric vehicle mandates.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: So basically phasing out gas-powered cars and going to EVs.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Slotkin put up this ad in October at some point
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: who was like, look, I don't support an EV mandate.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: I want to build EVs here in Michigan, but I'm
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: not going to force you.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: To drive one.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And she, I think, pretty successfully blunted those attacks. But
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: at the presidential level, I'm not sure that they ever
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: responded directly on that issue. Similarly, anyone who watched football
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: or sports generally- saw millions of dollars worth these disgusting
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: anti-trans ad. There was no response from the Harris campaign
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: in terms of paid media. And there's a lot of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: reporting about why apparently they cut some ads that didn't
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: test well, but also she never took the issue on
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: directly or made the affirmative case for, for what she
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: believes and why she's, you know, fighting for trans rights. And,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: you know, so, and I think when you leave a
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: vacuum like that, you get hurt similar, like Ruben Gallego
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: did some really smart things. to overperform the Harris campaign
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: with Latino voters. And you're right, I do think you
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: have to look to these successful races to learn something.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: And part of the issue, I think, with the trans
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: debate is a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: They're uncomfortable that they're going to say something wrong and
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: get canceled. It's just something that they don't feel comfortable
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: talking about. And I really do think that there is
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: a playbook for Democrats here that doesn't involve throwing trans
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: kids under the bus. I saw it in 2022 when
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I worked with Mallory McMorrow in Michigan, and she became
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: sort of an overnight star on this issue. There, the
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Republicans really, really overreached on trans issues. You had the
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Republican candidate for governor running like 100 percent ads on this.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Then when reporters went to her and said, OK, can
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: you identify any trans girls playing in girls sports in
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: the state? She couldn't find a single one. So what
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: Democrats were able to do there was to say, one,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: it's super weird that this is what you're focused on.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: And two, you're only doing this because you don't have
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: any solutions you want to talk about on lowering health
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: care costs, on inflation, on any of those things. And
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: then this cycle, I saw Marie Gluz and Kent Perez
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: handle this very well. Her opponent, Joe Kent, tried to
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: attack her for not supporting a federal ban on this.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: And she was like, Joe, You know what? I'm not
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: the weirdo. You're the weirdo. You're the one who supports
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: a bill that would require genital checks on girls as
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: young as five years old.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, Jesus.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: Let's leave this to local governments. Let's leave this to
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: local school districts, to parents, to communities. to figure out. Like,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: let's not have this big government overreach that is going
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: to end up with genital checks for young girls. And
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: I feel like the more we can make it like
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: they're the weirdos, they're irrationally obsessed with it, the better.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: When they make it that we're for they, them, and
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: not for you, that's where I think we lose.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's right.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: There's a libertarian argument that's like the government should stay
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: out of my kids, you know, locker room.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: There's also just a cruelty argument.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Like why, why do you spend all of your time,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars focused on attacking kids? Like
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: what's the upside in that? Um, and, um, I'm, you're
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: right though. I just do think we have to join
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the fight, be a part of that conversation, make an
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: affirmative case, point out how craven and politicized what they're
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: doing is, uh, and make.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: That part of the argument.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: But I also want to talk to you about this, um,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: This media piece of it, because I know you obsess
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: about it. I was reading this Wall Street Journal. I
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: obsess about it, too.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I was reading the Wall Street Journal the other day.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: They reported that Trump's interview with Joe Rogan had 25
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: million listens on Spotify and 45 million views on YouTube.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: So while we Democrats were debating whether or not it
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: was OK to go on his show, Trump was there
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: putting up like Super Bowl numbers for his interview. Um,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and so it just, it speaks to the fact that like,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: we don't need a new Joe Rogan, but we need
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to rethink our media strategy and go on Joe Rogan
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and debate him and push back on him when he advances,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you know, anti-trans views, right?
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: You fight them, you argue and you win, you win
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: the debate.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Um, and I also think like we need to shift
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: away from cable news a bit, or at least not,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of politicians don't feel like
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: they actually, uh, achieve something unless they have a cable
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: news hit about their topic. And the reality is the
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: viewership is going way down. People are spending more time
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: on TikTok and social platforms and.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, podcasts.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Our friend Peter Hamby wrote up some interesting polling for
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Puck News that said 14% of voters said they learned
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: information about Kamala Harris from a podcast. 23% said they
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: heard about news about Trump from a podcast. And those
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: who heard about Trump on a podcast, 55% said it
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: influenced their vote. So again, like clearly this is a
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: podcast podcast. we're talking on right now. I'm a self-interested
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: person at Crooked Media, but like we have to think
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of these alternatives and build out these ecosystems because we're
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: losing cable. Social media is tilting towards the right, right?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Like Elon's fully magified Twitter, Facebook, Instagram threads, they all
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: de-emphasize political content. God knows how the TikTok algorithm works.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: So like we have to find people probably on YouTube
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: going forward.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we can build our own ecosystem. I think
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: that's part of it. But when I hear people say
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we need our own Joe Rogan, I want to be like,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: have you, like, What the hell, man? It's so clear
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: you have never listened to Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan, it's
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: not a political show. Before I had a kid, I
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: used to listen to Joe Rogan a lot. His interviews
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: got me through the pandemic. If you've never listened to
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: his interview with Mike Tyson, you really haven't lived. It
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: is gold. But I listened to it because I wanted
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: to listen to stuff that wasn't political. And so I
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: could hear him chopping it up with Mike Tyson or with,
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Miley Cyrus. I'm Andrew Schultz.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I heard the Miley Cyrus one actually. That was pretty good. Yeah.
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: And so like I would be in the pandemic, I'd
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: be going for walks in the woods and that's what
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: I would listen to. And, but like the, so one,
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: I think it's a problem that people on our side
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: don't listen to Joe Rogan, don't understand that sort of, um,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: that sort of, uh, you know, that sort of sphere.
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: And they think that, okay, we need someone on the left.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: It's not a political show. What I think we need
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: is people who can go on shows like Joe Rogan.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: What does that mean? That means people who can have
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: actual conversations. And sometimes I think this is a challenge,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: especially for older politicians. Donald Trump is a little bit
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: of an anomaly, but they're so used to talking in
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: like talking points and policies that it's hard for them
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: just to go on and like chop it up and
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: have a normal conversation. And I thought that was a
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: little bit of a missed opportunity with Kamala Harris when
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: she went on Call Her Daddy. is that it was
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: like so policy focused. And it's like, it should have
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: been more what the usual programming of Call Her Daddy is.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: And obviously you're going to tame it down a little bit.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: You're not going to be asking her a lot of
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: the questions that Alex Hoover asks her guests. But I
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: do think we need people who can go on there
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: and not to like play purity politics with the podcasts, right?
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Like just because you go on Joe Rogan, it doesn't
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: mean you endorse his positions on, you know, trans girls
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: in girls sports. You know, just because you go on Barstool,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that you endorse everything that like Dave
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Portnoy or whoever has said. When you try to purify
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: yourself like this, you just end up cutting yourself off
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: from a huge audience that you would never otherwise reach.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: And if you look at the demographics of who listens
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: to Rogan, right, it is very diverse, very diverse ideologically.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: It's about a third, a third, a third Republican, Democrat, Independent.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: very racially diverse, and it's a lot of young men.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: And these are people who will basically do everything in
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: their power not to have to listen to MSNBC, consume
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: political news. And so, like, this is the only way
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: you're going to reach them. And why on earth are
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: we not trying to reach them there? But to do
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: it and do it effectively, we need candidates who can
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: go on, have those conversations. And to me, it speaks
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: to the need for, like, younger, fresher, more normal voices.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: I always say more normal Democrats, you know, people who
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: can go beyond just like policy talking points.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: The diversity of experience, race, gender, but also like, you know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: some people that didn't go to college, right?
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Like people like Dan Osborne, right? Talking from a different perspective.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're right. Trump is an anomaly. His superpower
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: is that he can.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Talk about himself nonstop all day, every day. I heard
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Rogan joking that Trump walked in, didn't use the bathroom,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: talked for three hours, left without using the bathroom. And
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that was the most shocking thing you'd ever seen. But
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: like broader, more broadly, there is this big kind of
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: rolling fight about why Kamala Harris lost and people are
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: pointing to their different things. And I think ultimately, like
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: everything points to anger about the economy and inflation and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden being very unpopular, being like the main cause.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that Harris couldn't have done things differently.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And I do think it was probably a mistake to
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: wait so long to do long form interviews. That also
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: seems to have kept Tim Walls from doing things early on.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And you're right.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: It means going on shows where people disagree with us.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: It also means like we can't spend another cycle spending
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: half a billion dollars on TV ads that don't work.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Oh my God.
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: And one other thing I would say, I mean, I
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: could go on about this for hours. It's like my passion.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I wrote a book that any given Tuesday that went
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: through a lot of this. But this was how we
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: got Pete Buttigieg to go from a security to a
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: top tier candidate. But what it was, was people sometimes
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: focus on the go everywhere aspect, like sort of the
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: non-traditional stuff that we did like Davis and Merrow, the
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Breakfast Club, Barstool, all of that. But what we really
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: actually did was an all of the above strategy. And
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I do think that that's something that I saw a
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: little bit left behind with both Biden and Harris is
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: that By the end, they were complaining so much about
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: the refs, like the New York Times, Washington Post, all that.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: You've got to work the refs as well. You know,
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: throw some stuff their way. Like, what's the harm in
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: giving New York Times a five-minute pull aside or Washington
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: Post a five-minute pull aside? Give them that. Do a
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: little cable. Do a little network news. Hit all the
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: local stuff that you can. Hit the non-traditional stuff. And, like,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: if you do all of those things together, that is
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: how you're most likely to reach people. people who are
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: regular voters, people who are not regular voters, people of
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: different political persuasions. And it's also how you're more likely
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: to get the press off your ass. And I really
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: think it's important, as much as we roll our eyes
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: at the declining influence of the mainstream media, it's really
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: important to understand, yeah, you still got to work those
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: refs a little bit.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: You got to work those refs.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And boy, you and I have been on the campaign
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: plane where you have a Press office or a press
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: plane full of really pissed off reporters. And it does
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: not help you win. Last thing I want to talk
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: about was the race to succeed Jamie Harrison as DNC chair.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: The former governor, Martin O'Malley, who currently runs the Social
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Security Administration, who you worked for forever ago, has declared
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: as a candidate. So is Ken Martin, who's the head
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of the Democrat Farm Labor Party in Minnesota, state party
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: chair there. Other potential candidates include Ben Wickler, the head
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: of Wisconsin Democrats, who we've talked to a million times
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: on the show and is great. Earlier, you mentioned Michigan
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: State Senator Mallory McMorrow, who is a rising star in
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the party and someone you've worked for, and then former
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: New York Congressman Max Rose. So you just mentioned that
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you worked with Pete, including when he was running for
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: DNC chair. Question is, how important do you think this
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: job is? And how important do you think the position
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: will be going forward?
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: You know, every four years or every eight years, we
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: spend a ton of time on this. And there's so
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: much attention. This is about the future of the party.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: And then the DNC chair sort of fades away. But
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I think it's a healthy debate for us to have.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: But I do think a lot of people, like people
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: who don't live and breathe politics, don't actually know how
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: the process works, which is like, this is not like
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: the bigger, broader Democratic Party. This is not voters who
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: get to vote on it. I think of this as
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: sort of like the most consequential student body election that
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: you could have. It's 440 insiders voting. And when you're
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: running for chair, you're mostly making calls to a lot
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: of these people, state party chairs, DNC members. And the
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: conversations you have with them aren't necessarily about the future
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: of the party and strategy. It's like, okay, are you
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: going to get this funding for my state party? Are
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: you going to get this staff and.
• 39:43
  Speaker 7: All of that?
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: And that stuff is very, very important. But I, with
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: this chairman election, um, or chairwoman election, I should say,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: I was enthused to see Mallory in the conversation. I
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: don't know if she'll actually run or anything like that,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: but I think it gets to, you know, what kind
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: of face we want to put forward, um, for the party. Um,
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: what's the kind of vibe we want to put forward
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: for the party. And like, again, I'm broken record. We
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: need more next generation, um, leaders.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Younger people, for sure.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: Like, derentocracy has not been kind to the Democratic Party.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: We need people who are badass communicators. She is so
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: good at this stuff. Like, we need someone like her who,
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you guys have seen this, but,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: and I would encourage, you know, listeners to check this out,
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: is she's been doing this series of Q & A
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: on Instagram where she just takes whatever question and and
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: then answers it. And it's direct to camera, no bells
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: and whistles. And it's not a lot of spin. It's
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: not a lot of talking points. It's just like talking
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: about why, yes, you should have Thanksgiving dinner with your
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: family members who vote for Trump. Why, yes, Democrats do
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: need to go on.
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: Rogan.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: And I think it is sort of a breath of
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: fresh air. And like having someone, again, who is like
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: more of a normal person, can talk like a normal person,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: who's younger, who has been in the trenches- And I
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: think could lead the party in a different direction would
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: be good. I also think, yes, there's the media money piece,
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: but we do need someone as well who can sort
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: of manage the guts of the DNC, the staff, all
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: the meetings, the state parties. And it could be interesting
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: to have more of like a dual chair system like
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: we've had in the past versus just putting it all
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: on one person.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like an executive director and then a chair. I mean, yeah,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. I want someone young. I
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: want someone who doesn't look like they're learning about TikTok
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: for the first time as they record one. We will
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: probably figure out this race in late February. So you're right,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: it'll be a contest until then. And then I agree
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: that it'll just sort of be someone who operates in
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: the background and does media. I mean, the DNC race,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: similar to what you, has been described to me as
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: like a tiny city council race where the voters are
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: all Democratic Party institutionalists. your win number is like 225 people.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: So you're right, it's very small. The thing I think
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: everyone just needs to remember is the DNC is not
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a policymaking organization. They're the organization that keeps the voter
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: file up to date. And they acquire technology that lets
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: us model voters and reach them in better ways. They
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: raise a ton of money for that infrastructure, but then
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: they also make sure that money gets to state parties.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I also think, you know, there will be this.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Big communications push to deal with Trump. And I want
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the next chair to be someone who's thinking about communications
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: in a different way and not thinking that going on
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Meet the Press once a month is how you combat Trump.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: It has to be this like digital first focus. But yeah,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad there's a bunch of people jumping
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: in the race. I'm glad there's some outsiders. But this
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: person's going to have to be respected. They'll have to
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: be able to bring everyone together, convene everyone, make real decisions.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: be creative, and then just raise a shitload of money.
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: And be strategic. And I do want someone who's thinking
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: about the longer-term Democratic brand, and specifically how we respond
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: to Trump. Voters send a message, we cannot just be
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: an anti-Trump party. So I don't know. Let's see how
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the field shakes out.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: But when we come back, you're going to hear Dan's
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: conversation with Senator Jon Tester about his race in Montana
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: that unfortunately went the wrong way. but also about where
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the party is headed and how we can win states
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: like Montana going forward. One quick thing before we do that. Listen,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: if you're new around here, I also do a show
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: with Ben Rhodes called Pod Save the World, where we
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: focus on foreign policy. We've been doing the last couple
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: of weeks on Trump's national security picks, what they say
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: about the direction his administration is going on national security,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: what's happening in Russia and Ukraine, the stakes for Gaza
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and And just this week, we interviewed Bernie Sanders about
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: his effort in Congress to ban some offensive weapons sales
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: to Israel. So check it out. Pod Save the World
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: drops every Wednesday. You can find it wherever you get
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: your podcasts or on YouTube. When we come back, Jon Tester.
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Joining us now is Montana Senator John Tessler. Senator, welcome
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: back to Pod Save America.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: It's great to be with you, Dan. Thanks for having
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: me on.
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: Senator, I've been a longtime fan of yours. Many of
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: us here at Crooked are. We were heartbroken by your loss.
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: How are you processing this election?
• 44:28
  Speaker 6: Well, look, you know, it's part of the democracy. If
• 44:31
  Speaker 6: you're on the ticket, you can win, you can lose.
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's just a fact of life. Every one
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: of my races have been very, very close. And I
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: anticipated this one would be close, but I did anticipate
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: I was going to win this. But it didn't turn
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: out to be. Look, And it's for a lot of reasons,
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: and we may get into those reasons as we have
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: our conversation here. But in the end, I can tell
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: you that things in government don't happen without good people
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: in government. And this is the greatest country in the world,
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: not because of the work that I've done, but because
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: of the work that previous generations have done to give
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: me opportunity to be successful. And that's the same perspective
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: that I gave to this job. It was to make
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: it make this country remain the greatest country in the world,
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: which it is, the greatest country that's ever existed, and
• 45:20
  Speaker 6: make it so our kids and our grandkids could have
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: the same opportunity that my grandparents and parents gave.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: Me in my generation. And I think that that's it.
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: Now, I was finally to a position where I had
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: enough experience, where I was chairing key committees and making
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: really important decisions for how the country was going to
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: proceed forward.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: But the voter spoke.
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: And that's the way it is. And I had a very,
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: very good run in the United States Senate. Spent 18
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: years here, met some great people, both inside government and
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: outside government, people that I wouldn't normally meet if I
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: had not had this job. Had an opportunity to do
• 45:57
  Speaker 6: some great things for our veterans, for infrastructure, for conservation,
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: for our public lands, for our financial system that I
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: think is important, that will stand the test of time.
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: But in the end, And I think I may have
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: told you this, or you may have read this. The
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: best job I ever had is being a farmer.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: And that's the job.
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: I'm going back to. And so don't feel bad for me.
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: I get to go back to something that I really love.
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: And we're going to continue to do moving forward. And hopefully,
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: God willing, we'll be able to do it for a
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: number of years, if not decades moving forward. And then
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: we'll monitor government and try to hold people accountable the
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: best we can from my ability being a farmer to
• 46:39
  Speaker 6: West of Big Sandy, Montana.
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: Going from the Senate to farming is probably the only
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: transition to farming where you're going to have less shit
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: in your life.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: Well, not unless we get some more livestock.
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: That's right. Fair enough. Let's talk a little bit about
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: your race. This was always going to be a tough race.
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: Montana is an incredibly Republican state. Trump ended up winning
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: by about 20 points. You won a big chunk of
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: Trump's voters. What were the big issues in the race
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: and what were the headwinds you were facing?
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: Well, I think the first one, well, the issues people
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: were talking about were inflation, cost of living. They were
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: talking about cost of housing. They were talking about the
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: border and the fact that it should be secure. I
• 47:30
  Speaker 6: think those were the big issues that I heard as
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: I went around the state of Montana for the last two,
• 47:36
  Speaker 6: three years, actually. It didn't just happen in the last year.
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: It's been that way for a bit. And I think
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: that those are issues that we could have done a
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: better job addressing at the national level. We tried to
• 47:53
  Speaker 6: talk about the things that I was doing specifically in
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: housing and in food, whether that message got through. Obviously,
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: it didn't get through as much as I wanted it
• 48:01
  Speaker 6: to because we lost. But we talked about that, and
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: we talked about my positions on the southern border, which
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: was different than the administration's for the first two, three,
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: four years of the administration. But the bottom line is
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: that's what people were concerned about. They were concerned about
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: the cost of living and the border, I would say,
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: more specifically.
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: You obviously were a very influential senator. You delivered a
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: lot for your state, particularly in the first two years
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: of the Biden administration. The president and Congress did a
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: lot to help the economy and Montana. Was it hard
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: to break through the national issues to be able to
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: talk about the stuff that mattered to Montanans?
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: 100%.
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: It was very hard to break through the national brand. And,
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: you know, I was asked, you know, you ran 13
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: points ahead of the president. How did you do that?
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: And we did that by talking about who I am
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: as an individual, not who I am as a national Democrat. And,
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: in fact, you know this, Dan, we did not bring
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: anybody to the state of Montana.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: Now, I haven't.
• 49:09
  Speaker 6: By the way, that's the way it was in virtually
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: every election with the exception of Jim Webb and my
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: first reelect in 12. But we didn't bring national Democrats
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: to Montana.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: Because we didn't want this to be about the national party.
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: We wanted this to be about John Tester and Montana
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: and how we keep Montana the greatest state and the
• 49:28
  Speaker 6: greatest country in the world.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: And that's why we focused.
• 49:31
  Speaker 6: I think if we'd have focused on bringing in national Democrats,
• 49:35
  Speaker 6: I don't think our margin would have been where.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: It is now. If you lose by one, you still lost.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: But the truth is, is that.
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: We knew that the national brand of Democrats right now
• 49:46
  Speaker 6: was not something that was going to work for me
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: in Montana. And we knew we had to make sure
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: that folks saw me as John Tester, the third generation
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: dirt farmer from Big.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Sandy, Montana.
• 50:00
  Speaker 6: And by the way, You know how much money was
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: spent in this election, probably. I mean, it was gobs.
• 50:06
  Speaker 6: It was over a quarter of a billion dollars. And
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: I think they were able to make me into something
• 50:12
  Speaker 6: I wasn't. And I've told people from the beginning, they
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: can't beat John Tester, the farmer from Big Sandy, the
• 50:17
  Speaker 6: guy that believes in our liberties and our privacies. But
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: they can beat the guy that they talk about, well,
• 50:27
  Speaker 6: that guy's for an open border, which I wasn't, or
• 50:29
  Speaker 6: that guy's for illegal immigrants from wanting them to vote,
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: which I wasn't. And these guys are for making sure
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: that white farmers don't give benefits. These were all ads
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: that were run, by the way, which I wasn't, but
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: they were able to pound that message through. And it's
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: one of the reasons I believe strongly, and I think
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: this is a bipartisan issue, that we need to do
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: something with the amount of money that's in these damn campaigns,
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: because it allows candidates to go into bunkers for months
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: before an election and not even go out and see people,
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: allows them so they don't have to do town hall meetings.
• 51:01
  Speaker 6: And And quite frankly, it allows a message, by the way,
• 51:04
  Speaker 6: which TV stations used to take down if ads were
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: found patently false.
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: Now they don't.
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: If you give them the money, they'll put anything up virtually.
• 51:13
  Speaker 6: And quite frankly, it allows them to make the candidate
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: into something that they're not. And I think we suffered
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: from all those things, the National Brown stuff, the amount
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: of money coming in. Look, we had a ton of
• 51:25
  Speaker 6: money on our side too, so I'm not complaining about that.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: But the truth is, It would have been much better
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: to have many, many more debates. It would have been
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: much better to have more town hall meetings that weren't
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: by invitation only, but allow people to come out and
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: ask questions. And so you can justify positions and justify
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: where you stand. None of that was done, but TV
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: stations made a.
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: Ton of money.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, the fact that a quarter billion dollars was
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: spent in Montana is wild since that's like a little
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: less than a third of what was spent in all
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: of Barack Obama's 2008 national campaign, which had all the
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: money in the world. We are in a different, I mean,
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: I couldn't even imagine how you would spend that much
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: money in Montana, given the cost of TV there.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's truly wild.
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: Well, we did a TV, we did it on digital,
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: we did billboards, we did direct mail, we had people
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: knocking on doors. I mean, we had everything. And so
• 52:14
  Speaker 6: did they, by the way, they had all that and more.
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: And that's what happened. But in the end, I think, Dan,
• 52:20
  Speaker 6: where the problem really is, is that the old system
• 52:23
  Speaker 6: forced candidates out into the people. The people could ask questions.
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: So you had to meet people eyeball to eyeball. Now
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: you're meeting people online or meeting them with commercials. And
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: by the way, the number of commercials that were on
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: TV was almost voter abuse. So it would be great.
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: It would be really good. And I know it's going
• 52:41
  Speaker 6: to be very difficult to change. But the Citizens United decision,
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: the McCutcheon decision, all those decisions just allow for a
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: lot of money to come in. And it really does
• 52:52
  Speaker 6: not only affect elections, but it also helps paralyze government,
• 52:55
  Speaker 6: which is also very, very negative, probably more important than
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: anything else is the paralysis that's gone on here in Washington, D.C.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: Because of these Supreme Court decisions.
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: You brought up the National Democratic Party brand. Since you
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: first started running, you've obviously been running in a traditionally
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: Republican state. You've always been an independent voice. You haven't
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: spent a lot of time campaigning with National Democrats. You've
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: carved out your own very unique place in our party.
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: How has the party brand changed or become maybe more
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: burdensome to you over the time you've been in the Senate?
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: So I've been at this since 2006, and I can
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: tell you it's never been that great, actually, for the
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: last 18 years.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: I do think.
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: That the party needs to focus on some things that
• 53:47
  Speaker 6: They used to really focus on.
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: I'll just give you one. Please do. Please do.
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: You know, Democrats always pride themselves in being the party
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: of the working man and woman. We might be trying
• 54:01
  Speaker 6: to sell that, but they ain't buying it. And so
• 54:04
  Speaker 6: I think that, you know, things like giving away money
• 54:12
  Speaker 6: to people who really didn't do anything to earn it.
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: is not something that people buy. And it's not something
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: that I personally buy either, by the way. I think
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: you appreciate the money you've earned. You don't appreciate money
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: that's given to you. And I think that hurts the party.
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: I do think that the issue on the border was
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: a killer. And I tried to make the point that
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: Congress has to do their job and we had an
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: opportunity to pass a bill, but the damage had already
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: been done with the previous three and a half years.
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: And so And I'm going to tell you that I'm
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: not saying Republicans walked up to me and said, you know,
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: do you believe in a secure border? Rock rib Democrats,
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: generational FDR Democrats were coming up to me going, where
• 54:59
  Speaker 6: are you at on the border? I'm seeing all these ads.
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: Do you want an open border? I said, no, I
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: believe in an absolute secure border. We need to know
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: who's coming across there. There's bad people who want to
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: do bad things in this country. We need to know
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: who's coming across this border. They need to follow the law.
• 55:11
  Speaker 6: They need to get in line. They need to learn language,
• 55:13
  Speaker 6: just like My ancestors did. And they would go, well,
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: that's good to hear. And these aren't Republicans that are
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: asking this. These are Democrats, okay? And so the border
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: was certainly a big issue. And then I don't know
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: that we did enough to really, and I'm talking we,
• 55:31
  Speaker 6: the Democratic Party, as a party, to lower costs.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: And look, I.
• 55:37
  Speaker 6: Don't want to go back into campaign mode here, but
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: I will for a second. I mean, look, I've There
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: are four companies that control 80% of the meat in
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: this country.
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: That is not competition. That is collusion.
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: We need to figure out ways to enforce the Packers
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: and Stockyards Act. I've been saying that since I was.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: A farmer only.
• 55:54
  Speaker 6: Wasn't even involved in state or federal politics. But the
• 55:57
  Speaker 6: truth is that message didn't get through. And I think
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: that would help both people in production agriculture and the consumer.
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: But the message didn't get through. We've done some things
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: on housing and housing in Montana. It will ebb and flow.
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: But the truth is, is that if we can do
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: some things, particularly for first-time homebuyers, and I hope this
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: happens after I'm gone, by the way, do some things
• 56:15
  Speaker 6: for first-time homebuyers, it's a positive thing for all of us.
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: And by the way, instead of giving loan forgiveness for
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: college education, let's figure out how to reduce costs for
• 56:27
  Speaker 6: college education for everybody. Lower the rates so you get
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: the bank rate on all our college loans and make
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: it retroactive for everybody that's got a college loan. So
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: you're not just picking out a select few at this
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: moment in time and saying, you know what, you guys
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: are going to get your loans forgiven and everybody else
• 56:45
  Speaker 6: that paid for their loans or people who are going
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: to come up later and have loans aren't going to
• 56:49
  Speaker 6: get advantage of that. I think people see that as
• 56:51
  Speaker 6: patently unfair and I think it hurts Democrats.
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: There's been this debate in the party because it's, you know, everywhere, right? Ohio,
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: across Across the nation, one of the reasons Kamala Harris
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: lost is Donald Trump made huge gains with what had
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: been the core of the Democratic base, as you point out.
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: Working class voters, right? Of all races, all backgrounds, everything.
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: But there's this debate in the party about, do we
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: have a policy problem or a message problem? It sounds
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: like you're saying we have both, perhaps.
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: That's exactly what I would say. We have both.
• 57:19
  Speaker 6: We don't message what we are doing very, very well.
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: And I can give you some concrete examples.
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: Please do. Please do.
• 57:26
  Speaker 6: And we need to modify what we're doing, OK? I
• 57:29
  Speaker 6: can give you several. So we passed the largest infrastructure
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: bill since the year I was born. I'm 68 years old.
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: 1956 is the last time we had an infrastructure bill
• 57:38
  Speaker 6: this big, this generational. And the minute we passed that bill,
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: which was classified as some as a small infrastructure bill
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: by people, Democrats were saying, this is just a small
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: infrastructure bill. There's a bigger one coming later. Well, that's
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: kind of shooting yourself in the foot right off the bat.
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: And then we didn't spend any time telling people what
• 58:01
  Speaker 6: it did. And then by the time it started going,
• 58:05
  Speaker 6: it's too late. I mean, you know, you're a guy
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: that understands communication. You have a moment in time to
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: get that information out. And if you don't utilize that
• 58:13
  Speaker 6: moment in time, you lose it. And that's just one
• 58:17
  Speaker 6: example of many things that came down the pipe. Every bill,
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: you don't talk about working people, every bill that this
• 58:25
  Speaker 6: administration passed And Congress did, had a component in it
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: for union members.
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: Every one of them.
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: And I thought at the time, I thought, wow, this
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: is pretty amazing. I believe if you want the job
• 58:37
  Speaker 6: done right, the best way to do it is go
• 58:39
  Speaker 6: get a union member to do it. I believe that
• 58:41
  Speaker 6: in my heart. I think if you want to expand
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: the middle class, the best way to do that is
• 58:44
  Speaker 6: expand the union movement in this country. But the truth is,
• 58:48
  Speaker 6: union members didn't know that happened. Their leadership did, but
• 58:51
  Speaker 6: the rank and file didn't. And I think we lost
• 58:54
  Speaker 6: a lot of them because of that. They didn't understand
• 58:56
  Speaker 6: who really was fighting for them back in Washington, D.C.
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: So I do think it's both a content issue and
• 59:03
  Speaker 6: a messaging issue.
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: My roots are in South Dakota politics. I work for
• 59:08
  Speaker 5: Tim Johnson and Tom Daschle in their election.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: Personal heroes of mine, by the way.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: Tim Johnson, rest in peace. Great American senator. One of
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: the ways in which those Democrats and Democrats like yourself
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: were able to win in these Republican states was there
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: was a very vibrant in these states local media So
• 59:24
  Speaker 5: your constituents could actually get to know you. They would
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: get to know the things you did. That's obviously changed dramatically,
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: particularly over the last four years. I imagine that was
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: probably a real challenge for you in this election.
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think if you want to talk about one
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: thing that's changed dramatically in the last 18 years is
• 59:37
  Speaker 6: local press has gone away.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, it really has.
• 59:40
  Speaker 6: We've got a few TV stations, but in Montana, most
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: of those are young reporters. They're still learning the ropes.
• 59:45
  Speaker 6: They're looking to move up. The old days of the
• 59:49
  Speaker 6: newspapers that had the reporters that asked you tough questions
• 59:53
  Speaker 6: and held you accountable, those days are all but gone.
• 59:56
  Speaker 6: There are still a few of those folks around, but
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: they're all but gone. And I think that that has
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 6: been a huge, huge, had a huge, huge impact on
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: who people are voting for because they really don't, their candidate,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 6: the public officials aren't, and I'm talking not only at
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: the U.S. Senate, I'm talking county commissioners and city council.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: None of those folks are being held accountable to the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: level they once were. They don't think everybody's watching them.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: And if people think they can do stuff and get
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 6: away with it, I don't think it adds to a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: better government.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: It adds to a much worse one. It's a huge problem.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 6: And I don't know how to solve this one, Dan.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: I really don't because the internet has kind of taken
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: those birds over and there just isn't any money in
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: papers anymore. And I get it. And it shows. I mean,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: we've got We just got a few papers in the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 6: state that are just a shadow of what they once were.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 6: And it's unfortunate. But that's probably the biggest change in
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: the last 18 years, quite frankly.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it just makes it so hard for constituents to
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: actually get to know their elected officials as people as
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 5: opposed to the caricature, right?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 6: I've got to tell you, the first I remember when
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 6: I got in the state legislature, I did an interview
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: with a guy by the name of Mike Dennison. And
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 6: Mike Dennison was a good guy. And I read his
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: papers for years and years sitting on the farm. And
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 6: I thought his articles were great. I'm going to tell
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: you what, he ripped me one end to the other
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: because I wasn't prepared when I went into the interview.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 6: And it taught me a really important lesson. You know,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: I don't care how well you like that reporter. If
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: you're not prepared when you go in for that interview,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: they're going to take you apart. And so consequently, folks
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: don't have to prepare anymore. They don't have to justify
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 6: their position. Why did you vote this way or why
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: did you vote that way? Because there's nobody there asking
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: the tough questions anymore.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: As you mentioned, you're a farmer. The farmers were for
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: a very long time. The ag community was a core
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: of the Democratic base. It's one of the reasons why,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: even though they were Republican states, we had Democratic senators,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: oftentimes two Democratic senators in places like Montana, North Dakota,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: South Dakota, Iowa, not too many years ago. How have
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: Democrats lost farmers and what can we do to get
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: them back?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: Once again, I don't think it's any different than the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: working folks. I think Democrats do a lot of things
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: for folks in production and ag, and we don't talk
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 6: about it with folks in production and ag. You know,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 6: the stuff that's been done in crop insurance, the stuff
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 6: that's been done in.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: The different farm programs.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 6: That are out there are pretty important. I will tell
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 6: you this, though, too. Farmers have changed. When I was
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: growing up, my folks told me never depend upon the
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 6: federal government. You ever depend on the federal government, you're
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: going to lose the farm. Now, I think if you
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 6: took away the farm bill from these farmers, they'd go
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 6: broke in wholesale fashion. I think their whole farming plan
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: is based around federal subsidies. I'm going to tell you,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 6: and I still believe this, my folks were right. You
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 6: want to talk about socialism, that's socialism. And we've got
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: to start making it so the farmers and ranchers can
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 6: get their paycheck from the marketplace.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: And the only way you do that.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 6: Is to insert more competition into that marketplace so you
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: get a fair price. And the taxpayer then doesn't have
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 6: to subsidize those multinational agribusinesses that are out there putting
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 6: the boots to farmers and ranchers every single day because
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 6: they can.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: And so farmers have changed. They have. It didn't used
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: to be this way.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: But now I'm not so sure that there aren't a
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: lot of farmers that say, hell, you know, if Trump
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: puts on a bunch of tariffs and the prices go
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: to hell, who cares? I'm still going to be okay
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: because I'm going to get a subsidy from the federal government.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: That is absolutely the wrong way to think about it.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 6: Same thing on things like climate change. So if the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 6: climate gets worse and I don't get as much rain,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 6: what the hell? You know, I've got crop insurance to
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 6: back me up. That's the wrong way to think about
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: it because those programs could end tomorrow.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: And they might, by the way. The Project 2025 said.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: We're going to do away with the Department of Agriculture.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 6: And so folks need to really understand that who they
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 6: have in public office makes a difference because things aren't
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: on autopilot here. Although they might seem like it, they're not.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: Before I let you go, Senator, I want to get
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: just your reaction as a longtime member of the Senate
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: to Donald Trump's cabinet nominations that he has made or
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: his purported soon-to-be nominations and the idea that he might
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: actually recess appoint them. Could you see that possibly happening
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: in the Senate?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 6: I don't see how that meets the Constitution of our
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: ability to confirm. I just don't see. I can tell
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 6: you that there are a lot of really good people
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 6: out here. Some of them are Democrats, some of them
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 6: are Republicans, some of them are independents, some of them
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: are libertarian. I think there are a ton of people
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 6: that he could appoint to these cabinet positions that are really,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: really good, that hold his values, by the way, and
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 6: are really, really good. It scares me when you put
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 6: somebody like Matt Gaetz as a head legal person in
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 6: the United States.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Look at him. Look what he's done. I mean, really?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: Is the idea here to build this country and really
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 6: keep this country the greatest country in the world? Or
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 6: is the idea here to destroy the institutions? Because I'm
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: telling you, you put somebody that doesn't know what the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: hell they're doing as Secretary of Defense And China will
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 6: be running this world. Listen to what I just said.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 6: If you don't have people who understand what's going on,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 6: Department of Defense, the Attorney General, the intelligence community, and
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 6: go down the list, by the way, Department of Treasury,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 6: all of them, China is sitting there and they're licking
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 6: their lips. They've been playing this long game and the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: long game just got a hell of a lot shorter
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 6: if you don't have good people in these departments. And
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: so when the president puts forth people We have an
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 6: advisory consent function here in the United States Senate. We
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: damn well better take that seriously. Put politics aside and say,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: is this the right person for the job? Can this
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 6: person actually run the Department of Defense, which is over
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 6: half the money that we expend in this country? Or
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: is he going to put us at risk? Because there's
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 6: a lot of bad people and a lot of bad
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: countries out there that want to see the United States
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 6: go away. And if we don't understand that going into
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 6: these positions, these are not our friends. They never will
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 6: be our friends. And we need to have people that
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 6: understand the threat because the threat is real and it's
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 6: happening to us every day. And so the people he
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: puts forth, he has every right to put it forth.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 6: But there are really, really, really good, well-qualified people out there.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: Those are the folks you need to put forth. Those
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: are the folks that people at Senate needs to confirm.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 6: Not somebody who's a serial rapist, for example.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: Senator Tester, thank you for joining us. And thank you
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: for your service. And I will just say that the
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: Senate is less without John Tester in it. And as
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: a party, we need to be thinking about how we
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 5: get more John Testers and the people who have supported
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 5: you over the years in our party. So thank you
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: so much for joining us.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: It's always a pleasure, Dan. Thanks for having me on.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: Well, that's it for us today, Liz. Thank you for
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: joining us. And of course, thank you to Senator Tester
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: for stopping by. John and Dan will be back with
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: a new show on Friday. And until then, talk soon.
• 1:07:31
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