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The Backwards Shirt Test For Real Leadership · The Leader Mentality

0:21
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens and Nick D.Stefano.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Hey, that's me.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that this guy, man.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: We got so many good things to talk about today, Nick.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, as always, I want to check in with you and see what you're up to, but but we got to tease the audience here a little bit today on why we're doing this.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: For you out there, you might be thinking, I want to get the most out of the people around me.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, um, and you want to give the most to the people around you, right?
0:50
SPEAKER_00: So this is a great goal of leadership.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not ever doing it just for yourself, you're doing it to lift up others around you.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: And so, but we also want people to to kind of work with us on on what what our uniform goals are.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: So today's topic is gonna be leading through influence versus authority.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a manager out there today, this is what we're doing for you.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: We want you to remember it's very easy sometimes to get into that barking mode and hey, I'm a I'm the manager, I'm in charge, right?
1:18
SPEAKER_00: I got the authority.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: But that very rarely works.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: So today we're gonna talk all about how to lead through influence, not just through authority.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: But uh before we get into that, I gotta talk about some stuff with you, man.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what is there something strange.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Something super strange over here.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, let me tell you guys, for those who are watching on video, this is all fine and well, and you know what's up.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: For those who are listening on the radio, I'm I want to describe this to you.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: We have a gentleman here, Mr.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Nick Di Stefano, who is usually, you know, probably one of the more put-together guys.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: He's got his nicely quoffed beard and all that good stuff.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: Or what what what have you?
1:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I know the definition of quaff, but either way.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: You can look it up.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: But my man here, he he's got his his his shirt on backwards, man.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: What's this all about?
2:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, sprinkle some knowledge.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: So when you look at it from the front, you may not know it's on backwards because it's kind of maybe you might think it's a uh trendy, almost like uh a little turtleneck or like a dickey throwing it back to you know the heybei.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And if you were to look so on on video, everyone that's that saw it, I did a little spin around.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: So it is on backwards, it's a polo shirt, right?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: You can tell when you look at it from the shirt.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes, indeed.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: It's very obvious that I have my shirt on backwards compared to Rob.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: I actually I make the choice consciously to wear my shirt backwards every day in the month of April, and I do it intentionally to raise awareness and acceptance for autism.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm on the the board for Champion Autism Network, and then even more personally, my son, who's 10 years old, is on the autism spectrum, and I'm all about in the work that I do, whether it's at McLeod or in my business, um, coaching individuals, trying to just create a kinder world and trying to create more leaders who, when they see someone that's different, maybe they stop and think, instead of why is that person doing that?
3:04
SPEAKER_01: And think with judgment, maybe that they act a little more curious uh curiously.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it leads to some really cool conversations, it leads to some really uncomfortable conversations when I see someone in the grocery store and they tap on my shoulder and say, wear your shirts backwards.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: And I I like to have fun with it.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: I usually tell them that uh I did not joke about it, and then I'll proceed to tell them, you know, one in 31 people wear their shirt backwards.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Did you know that, Rob?
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I had no idea of the stat.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I was quite curious.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm completely making that up.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: But one in 31 kids is diagnosed with autism today.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um that's wild.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: It is it is less of an epidemic than people think, and I I want us to think about how do we, you know, create a space where people can can be different and it's okay.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, like my shirt, you can tell when it's backwards.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: You can't tell if someone has autism.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: You don't like look at them go, oh, they look autistic.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: That's not a thing, it's it's invisible, it's in the way their brain works.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I love doing it.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just nice that we happen to be recording on a day when I'm wearing it.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I you know, I'll be real with you.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've had some discussions off the air on this, you know.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, when we some of our best discussions are really off the air, to be honest.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: You should also come join us.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, I've thought about doing like a best of or you know, outtakes, but you know, we had a real good conversation on this one time, and just like the misunderstandings people have on it in general, because like even myself, you know, I was trying to put it like, you know, hey, everybody can be something, and you're like, no, and we I think we kind of landed on, or I might have been my analogy, but it was like it's trying to compare, like when you look at the way the brain processes, trying to compare like a pickup truck to a car.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're there are different ways of processing, and you can't be a little bit of a truck if you're a car, you can't be a little bit of a truck, you're either a truck or you're not.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: And um, and so I I I appreciated that, and and I learn a lot when I talk to people who know more about a subject than I do.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: No, and I love I love sharing about it, so I I love the conversations.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: And if anyone listening wants to learn more about autism, or maybe you have a you know someone in your family or you're connected to and you go, I this is overwhelming.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what to do.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm confused.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, just reach out.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to talk to anybody that has questions about it because it's you know, it's it's different, it's a real sure, and it's and it's not always easy um being different, whether you're the parent of a kid that's autistic or you're autistic yourself, it's yeah, it's not easy, but you're right.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: There is definitely um some weight to it, but also too, like we're all of our brains operate differently, whether we're autistic or not, you know, my brain works differently than yours, versus there's a lot of people that tell me I could never do what someone like you or Rob does and stand in front of people, and that's naturally just something that in the way our brains operate, we you know, we think differently than someone, and there's just neurodiversity among all of us, but that's it's been a lot of fun to do, and I'm happy to to wear my shirt backwards, despite the fact that it could be a little uncomfortable.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely, especially when it's warm outside, no, no air for you, buddy.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: The other night I wore a blazer and I had a button-down shirt on backwards, and I was at an awards ceremony with someone.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: I met someone and they said, Oh, I just thought you were like the vicar and we're gonna give like the blessings.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: I guess I kind of looked like I had more collar backwards.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, well we won't do that today.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: No, that's cool.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I mean, I will say, you know, th one in 31.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: That's uh that's a lot, you know.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And and the reason why I think it's beautiful that you're doing, we had we had Edin, who I know you know Edin.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: He was on the show talking about autism a while back.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think it's it's powerful to know whether we're talking about autism or whatever it is, whatever it is in your life, if you listen to the show right now, you're going through something.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you feel very alone.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes you feel like you know, like nobody understands.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: It's just beautiful to know there are people who uh are like you and that may understand, and and that you know that we we don't have to feel like that.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, as you say that too, it makes me think about like even the topic today, right?
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Leading through influence versus leading with authority.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I don't I don't have any authority over someone in the grocery store, but my hope is that I can influence them to learn something, and that I can think about through my actions how do I encourage someone to be better, how do I influence them.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious, like, have you ever had anyone in your life, whether it's work or business, that didn't have any authority over you?
7:01
SPEAKER_01: They weren't the boss, but they still impacted you or led you.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Can you think of a time when maybe someone was, or maybe even you recognize for yourself that you did it?
7:11
SPEAKER_01: That's something I think sometimes we think about as I didn't have any control over this person or authority, but yet I still was able to kind of positively impact them and influence them, right?
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Influence is kind of like raising people up.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, it it's interesting because uh the influence is such a definition.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I I I generally have a general answer.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And what's funny is like as with every time I'm doing an interview and I'm being asked a question, a hundred answers flood through my mind.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to do this things, right?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like sometimes people tell me I don't really have an answer.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I have a hundred answers.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get the most relevant one.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: But I but I will tell you that the thing about the influence, and I'm gonna answer this question, is that influence doesn't even have to be through direct contact.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: So that's the beautiful thing about it.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Somebody doesn't have to come and tell you, hey, go do this.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: You might just do it because you you saw it being done.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: There's the influence in that you see something successful happening.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And the best way I would put it is um, you know, I remember when I was uh going to college and I would watch the people on the track team.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the I always had this fascination with sprinting, and you watch these sprinters who are are the best at what they do, you know, and I love it in the Olympics, but you know, I would watch them and the way they were working and their work ethic, and I would just see that I go, you know what?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm not a I'm not even a sprinter.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I never joined the track team, but I was like, but I I really want to do that.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And so my influence from somebody who didn't even know me, I'm like, I'm running on a track, I'm I'm running a hundred times.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm telling I'm breathing like they are, I'm drinking the things they're drinking because I wanted to be great at it like they were, and I think that that's that's where I've seen it, and it's not like somebody came over to me.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: They could if they came over to me and said you better start running on that track, I wouldn't have done it.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm good, you know what you know what I mean and and and there's the authority versus the influence.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: So absolutely.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: So I I love that.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's cool because you're right, it doesn't have to be direct contact, but I think we what's if anyone listening to this, um well, I think they should all everyone should listening should ask themselves this question of like, what am I doing today to influence others, right?
9:08
SPEAKER_01: Like whether you are responsible for people or not, because right, you know, I I like to think of influence that there's a John Maxwell quote that this says, like, I think it's something along the lines of like a rising tide lifts all boats.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he talks about that in one of his um one of his books.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's it's uh how can you be the rising tide, right?
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I can't necessarily control where this boat goes or what it does, but like, can I still lift people up?
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Can I still make and I think we all have the ability to do that regardless of what authority you have over someone or control or management.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and then when you have that management, that's when it's really cool, is when you can do but because imagine if you were have the ability to manage, and that's what I think about some of my best like leaders in my life.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: The people who they technically were managing me, but yet they were someone that by the way they acted, the things they did, the way they treated people, influenced me to be better as well.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, better just because they told me this is the standard.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were standards, and we you know strive to um strive is that a word?
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, strive it definitely worked.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're trying to it didn't sound right in the moment, but you know, we strive to achieve the goals and we had tasks that we had to do and we were held accountable for things like that's management through authority, that happened, but yet I believed in what we were doing because they believed in it and they took the action and they participated, and I thought, oh man, I'm influenced by you know this person's actions as well, which I think we can all do.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So the the the question in my mind is where do you see now now?
10:40
SPEAKER_00: By the way, again, sometimes I feel like if you're listening to the show the first time, uh Nick isn't just like a dude I bring on the show.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you do leadership training, you do team training, coaching, whatnot.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: And so you you see a lot more of this than a lot of the people that I know in my life.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: So I love to hear this from you.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: There is uh, do you ever see this issue where because of someone's authority, they have less ability to do not ability to do, but but it's like the authority is styming their ability to lead through influence because let me explain why I'm saying this, and then I think you'll see where I'm going.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: It's like if if if I see uh uh you know somebody who's doing something and I'm like, wow, that's how you should do it.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: There's a good influence to that, or or you know, just somebody who's been a role model or a standard bear, then there's a certain amount of pizzazz you have to that, and then but then you can take that same person, you're working under them, and they're like, Well, you have to do it because I'm your boss.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, how do you size that up if if you're a manager out there, you know, what what have you seen in this in this field?
11:42
SPEAKER_01: So I I I love the question because the reality is and then we have two ways of doing it.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: You can manage people, but even if you're a manager, you shouldn't just be managing, you should be leading.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not leading, then you're not influencing.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: And so when people struggle with it, what what I've I often see happens is we see people get into roles where they might have been great at influencing others as that individual contributor.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: You have a superstar individual on your team, and we promote them into a leadership role or a manager role, and they were influencing everyone by the way that they acted, and now they have this authority, and they feel like I have to like stick to this authority, I have to act a certain way because I'm the manager now.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Um when the reality is like they probably had more impact and created more change before they were on others, before they actually had the authority, and sometimes we let the authority become like the primary reason or the primary way that we interact with others, and you can have both, but you should be primarily managing the things and leading the people, and that means if you have authority, you can still have people that trust you, and you want to have people that trust you, you need to, but to do that, you have to connect with people.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: You can't just tell people what to do and not be transparent and give them the reason why we're doing it, and all the things we've talked about in you know, many of the different trades.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: You've got to be able to actively listen, you've got to have emotional intelligence, you gotta think about you know what is it that I'm doing to connect with this person because the authority will absolutely stym you.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to show up to work if you just tell me what to do and don't think about me as a person or you know, and especially if you're promoted to it.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind and this is where I'm going with that.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: I I feel like that what happens is naturally you hit it.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you really hit it.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: And and I really believe on this.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: I I hope any ultimate decision makers at the companies are listening to what we're saying right now, because I believe this is a mistake that a lot of managers do.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: A lot of decision makers.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying managers, but I'm talking about like the person who's ultimately deciding who's my next manager gonna be.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Let me explain where I'm going with this.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, we need to hire somebody to be our next division manager, whatever that is.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have these employee candidates down here.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: And what happens is I I believe that sometimes you get these people in this situation where they're like, okay, it's me against you.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: I've got to win that job.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: And so what you've done, you created like this battle of I'm gonna be better than you.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: And whereas I've always kind of felt like I I really want the better influencer there.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm not looking for the person who's showing authoritarian traits right off the bat.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm showing I want the one who's gonna say, hey, you know, look, we're both we're both vying for this.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Let me just tell you something.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Next time you're doing this, this is gonna probably help you.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's the person that should be your manager, in my in my opinion.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And so because you know that they are going to work through influence.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: One is building towards authority as their means of making people do things, the other one is working towards influence.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's you know, it's really interesting you say it too, because I I think that what this like our topic today, for me, this is what this topic is what defines leadership for me.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: And so I know you have an acronym for it, right?
15:00
SPEAKER_01: I have my own framework related to leadership, but at the end of the day, for me, leadership is about leaving people better than you found them.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And you can be a manager and do that, you can be my friend and do that, you can be my kid and do that.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to have any authority over someone to be a good leader.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And on the company if I automatically have maybe a little bit of respect because I am the manager and have that authority, but if I take advantage of that, and that's what I think happens, people get in that position, they take advantage of the authority, and they forget that my job is also to take care of the people and leave them better than I found them.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have to have a you tell me if you agree, right?
15:43
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to have a title to be a leader, right?
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Right?
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Like we both agree on that.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: I believe in general that that we people have conflated manager with leader, and it's a big problem.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a big problem.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, people say, well, our leader told us to do that.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: It's almost a sarcastic thing when you say that.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: That's a th that's authority at that point.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: No influence.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And so what I have seen, and and I think, and if you have any specific references, you can use them, right?
16:10
SPEAKER_00: And we don't want to ever call out names, but I think that this is the age-old problem.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, you bring in somebody and you say, You're gonna be my manager of people now.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: And that person comes in and they're like, Okay, I'm in charge now, time for me to be in charge.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And and I believe that there's a mindset issue there.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: And what happens is sometimes and a lot of times that doesn't work because naturally the people revolt and they go, Well, why is this person my manager?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And if you're ever asking why somebody's your manager, it means either you have a problem yourself, which I by the way, let's be real, that's a lot of the problem.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: But but you also have to ask, well, if it's not readily apparent to everybody, then that's a problem too.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Why is this person my well here's where it comes from.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: How are they influencing?
16:53
SPEAKER_00: What are they doing to set the standards?
16:54
SPEAKER_00: And I believe that that's where we're gonna spend a lot of this show talking about.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna talk about what are the standards of how to be an influencer rather than just a authoritarian.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great thing that's a great place to start, truly, is what are the things that anyone listening, whether you're a manager, leader, whoever you are, that you can do to influence others.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: And I I'll just want to say too, influence others positively.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Because if we're talking about leading through influence because there are a lot of folks that are individual contributors and employees of our companies and places that we work that they influence others for not certain, but I think about like the times when my brothers and I were like, hey, you should jump off that tree, and it's like I'm the older brother, and I'm like, I know this is a really dumb idea, but he still goes off the tree, and then later in the night, the night, shout out Mark, sorry the time we pushed you off the tree, bruises his kidney and is like being blood.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, like that was bad influence, right?
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why I say, like, so the first thing I would say to anybody thinking about how do I lead with influence first authority, the first thing I would say that you need to do is you need to be empathetic.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: So you need to think about what are other people feeling.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: You need to recognize that empathy requires a level of self-awareness and knowing your own feelings, but also being able to recognize how other people feel.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Because if I recognize how you're feeling, I'm going to be able to connect with you.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be able to encourage you when you're having that tough day.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the same time, if I have that authority too, and I empathize with you, then when I ask you to do something and I know you're gonna struggle with it, you're gonna be more willing to go through that crappy thing.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, right?
18:32
SPEAKER_01: My favorite definition of leadership comes from um two researchers, Kuzes and Posner, and they say leadership is the art of mobilizing others to want to struggle for a shared aspiration.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: If I don't empathize with you, there is no way you're gonna want to struggle.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh, like that's good.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't want to come to work and be like, this is gonna suck.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, if I empathize with you and I say, hey, I know this is gonna be really hard, and I know you're really struggling with it, but like let's go through this together.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, I and and and I don't even think that's true anyway.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I I really don't.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't think if people thought things suck and therefore I don't want to do them, I don't think you'd have people doing these these races where they're running uh super marathons and where, right?
19:15
SPEAKER_01: And and where a lot of people empathize with me in that.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: They also thought I was stupid.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, but you know what I mean?
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, how often do we do things we're like, man, this is gonna be a grind, but let's do it together, we can have fun.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's like I think that's a thing.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: But but it comes with a common vision.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: So so here's where I'm gonna go with that.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: I I you know, I uh you said the thing about the empathy.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go to the common vision, you know.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: If I want to be an influencer, I have to uh rather than just authority, they have to share.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: We have to share a common vision, a common goal.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think that what I've seen too often is that people will will ultimately be like, I'm in charge, it's my way or the highway.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Therefore, it's my goal, not your goal.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: And and I'll I'll piggyback that with this.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: There is a thing that happens, and and you gave a definition of leadership, and I and I really appreciate that, because I have some traits of leadership, I'll tell.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: And the best leaders I know are the ones who they put out fires, they don't grow fires.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: See, the opposite of leadership is the one who, like, oh, that's going whatever, oh, you know, throw some gas on the fire.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: Great leaders put out the fires.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: How are they able to put out the fires?
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of times it comes through common vision.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it comes down to, hey, look, when this person did this thing to you, Becky, or whoever I'm talking to, um, do you think that this is what they were trying to do?
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Do you think this is could have been the angle?
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, when we get to get to a point where we can see a common vision, all of a sudden we're we're taking the influence route.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: We're taking to to, you know, why are we here today?
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Hey, would you like to get a promotion this year?
20:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's how we get there.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: But I think that we have to look at that instead of being like, do as you're told, sir, you know, which is what too often we do, you know?
20:54
SPEAKER_00: So uh that would be my take on it.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: No, I I love it.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: And you know, as you're talking, there's there's one word that I I like keep thinking about in my mind as you were saying all that, Robin.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: It's to do that, to have a common goal and a common vision, right?
21:09
SPEAKER_01: I need to trust you.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I think if you want to influence others, others have to trust you.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And I would say the people that are the best influencers are the ones who extend trust first.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And I I love the age old adage of trust is what?
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Trust is is it earned or is it given?
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean it's earned.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think the best influencers are the ones who give it, even if it's not always gonna be earned, and then like we give it first.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: That is so difficult to do.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: But I think about if you are my manager and you have authority over me, but you trust me, right?
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Even if I'm it's day one on the job and I haven't fully earned it, you've hired me for a reason, and you trust me, and you've allow me to try something, you say, I'm with you.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna just tell you how to do this, but like, listen, like I trust you to work on this thing.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: I might not be the, you know, the biggest project in the, you know, the book, but how do I give the handout to you and say, I'm gonna hope that you're gonna trust me back?
22:13
SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna show you our.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Are you talking from manager to employee?
22:16
SPEAKER_00: You're given the trust, or are you saying from the employee to the manager?
22:19
SPEAKER_01: I think it should go both ways, but far too often we think that it has to be earned first that I don't need to give you trust until you've showed me that I that you deserve my trust.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: When I would be much more influenced if I've done nothing other than I've gone through this interview process with you, and now I work for you, and you're saying, Hey, you went through this process with us?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's enough.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: I trust you to do this project, and I'm gonna help you along the way with it.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna just tell you do it.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: I I can get behind that.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Not easy.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: That is so difficult to do.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I I'll I'll say this like I think I think that's true, Nick, but I but I do think there's a part of it though that you know, yes, you have to give a little trust, but you also the the person has to earn the trust too.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: I and I'm gonna I'm gonna go off of this.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Let me let me tell you, here's here's where I'm going.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let me give you an example.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're a football team, and uh the coach comes in on day one, he's got basketball shorts on, holding a basketball, and he goes, Boys, I want you to go out there and we're gonna score a bunch of goals today.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: And you go, wait a minute, am I gonna give that guy trust?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: There does come a little bit of an earning process, but I think but but then this is where I'm gonna go, because I agree with you on that you have to give it, but but there's a and this is exactly where I'm gonna say way into my point.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: I think the next thing is you have to be the standard of what you are asking people to do.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: You can't come in and not look the part of what you're asking people to be.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And so here's where I'm gonna I'm gonna get into the earning part.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: If I come in, let's say that we brought on that same coach and we said, This is your new coach, guys.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we gotta trust the coach.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: And and that's good.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: That's what I want from Greg.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Trust him because he's the coach, the authority, no other reason.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right, right.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: So I trust him.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: So now so now we're about to earn some of that trust.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And what it's gonna be is, hey guys, um, I've watched some of the things that are happening before I got here.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing a little bit of homework, and here's some things I think can make us all better, and here's how I want to tap into things that we're gonna be doing here.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: You you're you're you're being the standard, you're showing that you're working a little harder.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: You're you're doing all the things you're asking people to do.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Now we're talking about leadership, and we're talking about authority versus influence.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, influence to me is like, hey, I you know, I saw Coach out here.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: He he was here at 6 a.m., you know, working on the gym, getting ready for this.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of inspiring to me.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, he's not doing it because he's saying, do as I do, do as I say, don't do as I do.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: He's actually doing what he's saying to do as well.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a part of that that you maybe you got to give a little at first, but then that that it has to continue to be earned in a sense, because if I start saying I'm gonna do one thing and doing another or asking you to do something, but I'm not willing to do it, I think I start learning, losing it.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: So be the standard.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: And I love that because what what I even hear in you saying that is like, and there is a level of of trust being earned, but it's earned too because I gave it to you first, right?
25:16
SPEAKER_01: So, like if I'm gonna expect you to trust me and I'm gonna be this standard, I'm gonna trust you to do the same thing, even if you haven't done it yet, right?
25:24
SPEAKER_01: So, as the person who has the authority, if the coach knows that they're putting in the work and they and they are leading through influence, then they need to also then, because they've set that standard, give the trust to the the people as well, and not just expect it to come to me because I know I'm living up to this standard.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't give them the opportunity to live up to the standard until they've like they've done the things, then why do I want to do it?
25:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm only doing it because you're telling me to go and do this versus and that's never been a good reason in the history of time.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I I think when we talk about trust, like you have to operate in a way if you're gonna influence others where people can see that you're someone that they can trust, but then even if you can't see that they're someone to trust, you should give them an opportunity to prove it to you.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: So so show it to me.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, if you don't, or if you don't, if you break my trust, I'm not gonna like continue to let you do what you did.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I'm gonna, if I want to influence you, I want you to feel trusted.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna give, I'm gonna kind of summarize this in four things.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna summarize this whole show real quick and um and and we're gonna kind of probably call our day for this, what, for this particular show, because I think we've hit a lot of things on how to be um influencing with your leadership rather than authoritarian with your leadership.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, to play off of what you said, obviously you have to listen and have empathy to big things.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're gonna be influential, you can't come in here and not even be willing to understand other viewpoints.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: We do have to give trust first.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's to the leader, to the people who they're that that they may be leading.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: You have to give them trust, you can't assume the worst of them.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: You have to and that's that's the key piece of it's just can't assume the worst of them.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Yep, absolutely common vision, establish that.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, look, if if I say, what's our vision here?
27:08
SPEAKER_00: What do we want to be doing together?
27:10
SPEAKER_00: All right, if we want to do that, we got to work as a team together.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: I think that common vision, and then be the standard.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't ever try to get into a leadership position.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget I I had an intern one time at an old company, and they said, I became a manager because I want to be in charge.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, that's not a reason to be a manager, right?
27:28
SPEAKER_00: So remember, be the standard, don't look to be the authority.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: But hey, I think that's a great place for us to wrap it, Nick.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: I hope that everyone listening feels influenced and inspired to go out there and be a better leader.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: And and I've got one a couple of just quick sign-off notes.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: You uh you're doing jockeys and julips this year?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: I am, I'll be there.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you'll be there.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: That is on uh we have that on what date is that?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: I want to kind of throw it.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: It's the day of the derby, right?
27:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Remember the day of the Kentucky Derby.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's not day.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: I have it on the calendar, but I'm not gonna sit here like a bumbling fool and find it.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I want to say, no, I'd really love to have people come out.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it's on May 2nd.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, if that's right.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And so come out to Jockeys and Julips.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh this is a part of the McLeod jockeys and julips that we're talking about, put on by um the the amazing team over at McCloud Health, and and they do so many amazing things for the community, raising money for cancer awareness and everything on down through uh helping people at the at the organization.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: So we do want to welcome everybody.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Come on down to jockeys and julips May 2nd.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: We'll uh get some more information.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Put information in the show notes.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: We'll put it in the show notes, and I believe that I'm also gonna have Christina Jackson come on and talk a little bit about that.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Even better.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Good friend of the show.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: We'd love to have her.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, we'll we thank you all.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Go out and be your best leader you can be.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Always lead through influence, not authority.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And I will say thank you to our show sponsors, Carolina Bays Holmes.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And we will see you all next time on the Leader Mentality show with Rob Clemens and Nick D.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Stefano.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: See you next time.