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How PCP Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that
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• 0:25
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• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: should Know about PCP.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: And yes, we're talking about the PCP. You think we're.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Talking the one from the if you were a child
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of the seventies and eighties, where you heard that your
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: friend's friend's cousin did it and they carve their face
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: off with a butcher knife and then jumped off a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: building so they thought they could fly.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, as a matter of fact, that's exactly the PCP
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: we're talking about, Yeah, which stands for By the way,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna attempt this chemical name.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: You're ready, This one's easy, no pressure.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know how to say the ones. So
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna that's I think it's kind of important
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: chemically speaking. I think they didn't just put part of
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: it in parentheses for nothing. But I'm just gonna call
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: it one one fennel cyclo hexel, pepper dye and those
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: in the number dye pipper dye, piper dye, probably piper dyne.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's those in the know who don't smoke PCP.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: But oh, I actually took out a syllable this time.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Oh man, this is gold.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: So the people who study it call it fen cyclodine, okay,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with a pH because it's fat.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you if you're wondering, like, oh, why
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: do people even study this old street drug from the seventies,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: it's because it wasn't always that. It was kind of
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the precursor to the ketamine in a lot of ways,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: which we'll talk about here and there. And if you
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: think people study ketamine the party drug, well that's true too,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: because both PCP and ketamine had legitimate uses and were
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: created for legitimate uses like mini drugs, yeah, recreational drugs.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: The Germans gave us both heroin and PCP. I think
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty six, German chemists created PCP. I'm not
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: sure what they were creating it for. I think this
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: is a time of experimentation in chemistry where you just
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: put stuff together and saw what happened. Sure, So it
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: sat on the shelf for almost thirty years before Park Davis,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical company from the United States which is now
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: part of Pfizer. I believe they came along and they said, Hey,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: this would be a gangbuster's tranquilizer sedative something. Let's forget
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: out what to do with this because I just smoke
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: some out back and I feel like a million bucks.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta tell you, we should use this stuff.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: So they looked at it as an anesthetic at first,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and I think it first came to market in like
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: the mid fifties, and by nineteen sixty five they had
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: removed it.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: From the market.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: The reason they removed it from the market is one
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: it showed very quickly it had a high potential for abuse,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: because the hippies in San Francisco started smoking it before
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: there was even hippies in San Francisco. Yeah, and it
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: had a slew of side effects that you just really
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: don't want, which is one of the reasons why we'll
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: say you probably shouldn't do PCP.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we should have led with that. Sure, Like what
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: if someone heard the first what is this four minutes
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: of the episode.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: It turned it out, they're like, I gotta go try PCP.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Josh and Chuck said it exists, right, Yeah,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: don't do PCP, everybody, you shouldn't do that. And this
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: is not, you know, coming as a sort of satanic,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: panicky eighties you're gonna jump off a building because you
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: think you can fly kind of thing. It's just not
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: a drug you want to do. So, like you said,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: you know, uses, well, I don't think we've even said it. Yes,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: uses really dropped off over the years. It was a
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: very much a bigger deal in the nineteen seventies and eighties.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I think stats that the Grabster found for US saw
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: that between seventy six and seventy seven, use among high
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: school students doubled. In a nineteen seventy nine study, seven
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: percent of high school seniors reported having used PCP in
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: the last year. In twenty thirteen that was down to
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: less than one percent, and then in twenty twenty. Though
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the stats are a little bit different. I think it
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: went down to like point zero zero zero two percent
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: of the country, not just high school students.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: So of adults.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like fifty two thousand people. Well, adults, it's just
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: twelve and over.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Hey, you're old enough to smoke PCP. You're old enough
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: to be considered an adult.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: That's right. But you can't vote.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what age you are. If you smoke
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of PCP, you probably shouldn't vote anyway.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Right. Oh, I thought you're gonna say, then you've earned
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the right to vote.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: No, No, I think the opposite.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So all that to say, it used to be a pretty,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: you know, frequent recreation, recreational street drug, and it has
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: really really gone out of fashion, in large part because
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: ketamine is not the same exact thing, but it's it's
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: largely the same thing, and that became I guess, the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: trendier drug to use.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, but it has remained in fashion in certain pockets,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: especially like deep in the inner cities of Washington, d C.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, Kansas City, Okay.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I believe it's a town in Connecticut, Hartford.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Hartford, but there's at least
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: two towns in Connecticut that have interesting a lot of
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: PCP use and they think I read this really great
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: article and vice about why America is the only country
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: in the world basically literally where people use PCP still
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: or ever ever, but it's still as well. Ever, yeah,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: it never really made it out of America. It was
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: written by Max Daley and sam Irravani. It's definitely worth
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: a read. But they say, one of the reasons why
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: it's so overlooked and one of the reasons why it's
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: not that studied, and one of the reasons why you're
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: just like, yeah, ketamine replace it is because the people
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: who do use it tend to be marginalized. Unemployed, black
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: inner city men ages mid twenties to mid fifties are
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: typically the people who get busted for PCP. So it's
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: kind of like this viewed as this drug that like
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: a drug of inequality, I think.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Is how they put it.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: And that'll come up late too, because some of the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: myths around it seem to be tied to the people
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: who use it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Now, I'm not a very smart person, but if if
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: there are like two towns or two cities in Connecticut
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: that are known for PCP, still doesn't that just mean
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: there's someone in two towns in Connecticut that are making PCP.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So no, almost all of the PCP in the world,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: because it's almost all of the PCP in the United
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: States are still controlled and made by black street gangs
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: in LA, like crips, bloods.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: It's weird.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Then, how does it get to these two weird specific
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: places in Connecticut right now?
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Those cities that still do and have always smoked PCP
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: it's always been around, are cities that have like clearly
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: some way or another, very deep ties to those same
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: LA street gangs. Because it's really hard to distribute PC,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: really hard, So for it to show up in Connecticut
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: from LA, there's some there's like somebody's cousin lives there
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and is controlling the PCP market.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: They're getting it to actually from.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Somebody in LA who knows a chemist who will go
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: out into the desert and make hm PCP all day long.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, that makes sense because I just I don't know.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It seems like there would be like a Walter Whitton
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Connecticut or something, but they're still out in the desert.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, supposedly it's all coming out from LA.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, in seventy eight is when the United
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: States government said, all right, this thing is officially a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: scheduled to controlled substance, which means, you know a lot
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of things we've talked about the different drug schedules, but
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it means that its prevalence of abuse is a big deal,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and that it can be addictive, and you know, it's
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: ranked right up there with cocaine and crystal meth and
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, which I think we've covered all those before.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in fact, it shares a precursor drug, pyrad dene,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: with crystal meth. But it's not that, No, it is not,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and it actually does have anesthetic effects. Like one of
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: the side effects of in ingesting PCP one way or
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: another is like, not only do you not really feel pain,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: you don't experience pain because you're disassociated from your body.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: It's a disassociative, hypnotic sedative essentially, and one of the
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: reasons why, sure, you have to add the essentially though
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: comma essentially sure, but one of the reasons why PCP
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: and ketamine were first brought to market was because they
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: produce sedative effects, like you don't really know what's going
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: on after a certain dose. You're not really with it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: You actually can fall into a coma with your eyes open,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't slow your heart rate or pulse or.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Anything like that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: So it really made a Ketamine in particular, found a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: great use as a battlefield sedative for surgery in like Vietnam,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: where somebody might have lost a lot of blood. They
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: couldn't hand a traditional sedative or anesthesia, so they gave
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: them ketamine and it did the same trick without dropping
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: their blood pressure even further.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and what's good for the battlefield is good
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: for the rave. But it makes total sense, you know
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: because if you were like, as far as the rave
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: culture goes or went, I don't think is that still
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: a thing? Even I it's got to be somewhere.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: It isn't.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: It's it's coming back soon because the nineties are so
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: hot right now.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody's out there raven with their big they're not
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: bell bottoms. Even did this have a name? No, it
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: was just like the pants that had like like two
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: foot what's it called there at the bottom with what's
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the bottom of your pants, like called the cuff cuff.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: The bottom of those big pants.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't, but the whole leg was like that. Essentially,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: it was just the waste that was a generally normal size.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: The legs were huge. Believe me, buddy, I had more
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: than one pair of those.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I thought they flared. Anything to see you in a
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: pair of those.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I had some cool ones too, but I also had
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: some uncool ones.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: We used to when we lived in these warehouses in
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the West end of Atlanta and ninety nine two thousand
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: would and this is that was a big rave loft
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: over there, Like people would drive from different states to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: go to these things, thousands of kids, and we used
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to just sit around and play pavement and laugh and
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: make fun of them in those pants.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: And they were doing ketamine, ketamine, ketamine, and you're.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Like, like those losers probably, But where I was going
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: with all this was I guess it makes sense why
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the PCP and ketamine and that kind of thing would
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: have been because you know, you feel funky, but it
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't like slow you down, essentially.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: No, And in fact, it can actually increase your heart
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: rate and do all sorts of other weird stuff to you.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: And what's really odd about.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It is that it has a lot of paradoxical effects
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: on humans. I say, we talk a little bit about
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: how it impacts the brain, and I think that it'll
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: become apparent.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, let's do it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: So it's it's considered a N methyl d aspirate antagonist.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: NMDA antagonists and NMDA receptors are really important as far
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: as things like memory formation, neuroplasticity, very important stuff. But
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: what they they're triggered by glutamate. And what PCP does
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: is it prevents those ndm A receptors from accepting glutamate
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and hence firing. And because there's either more glutamate or
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: less glutamate in your body, I think less glutamate floating
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: around is what it is. A Whole host of other
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: stuff happens, like dopamine and nourep and ephyrin get released,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: those two and serotonin their reuptake is inhibited, so they're
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: floating around in your your brain even longer.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: So that's all the good feely stuff, right.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Your opioid receptors are stimulated as a result, your nicotinic receptors,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: which control things like your neural muscular activity rapid neural
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: transmission essentially, and then your muscarinic activity, which includes like breathing,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: your pupil's salivation. All these things are going haywire. And
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: then what else is weird about it is that your
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: central nervous system can be both depressed and excited by
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: this same drug. This is how this is how nuts
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and effect it has on your brain, so that you
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: can cycle between like utter sedation to the point of catatonia,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and between that and serious agitation where like you see
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: you know, videos of people who are being arrested and
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: they're not like hitting the ground even though they're getting
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: sprayed in the face of bear spray because they're so
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: on like a rant. So it has like all these
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: really crazy effects, but it all comes down to the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: fact that it affects your ability to receive glue tomate
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: in your NMDA receptors.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk a bit more about that sort
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: of reputation as like a superhuman strength, like you know,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: takes twelve cops to subdue someone on PCP thing. And
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit what were those people on those videos
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: that you sent me? Okay, so Josh sent me some
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: videos and people I guess the next day or whatever
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: on ketamine or I assume it was the next.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I think it was hours later. It was like hours afterwards.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And they were almost all of them when
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: they were walking like down the sidewalk or whatever, had
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: this backward lean as if they were walking up like
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: a very very steep hill, but it was on solid ground.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: And then the one guy if it was a very
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: slight incline on the sidewalk and he would take a
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: few steps up and then take a few back, and yeah,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: he had. They were all having a hard time, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: it was just I don't know, it's just sad to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: see someone in that sort of a stupor around in
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the daylight when people are going to work and stuff.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, the thing that really kind of makes it
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: worth watching is they're with it enough to know that
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't be walking weird in public, and they need
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to tell they suspect that they might be.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of funny in a way, but it's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: really not when you really think about it.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: You know, well, watching.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Them play it off or try to play it off
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and just fail utterly at it, that's that's objectively funny
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to see it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Well, And it doesn't help that they did the Staying
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Alive Beg's song cut to it. We used to there
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: was my friend in college used to call not on drugs,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: but if you were drunk and you were trying to
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like play it off like you were super sober and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: walking around. He called that sugarfooting, like you're just you're
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: not just like, oh, I'm just gonna walk down the
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: street thinking left foot, right foot, everything's fine, exactly. You
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: called it sugarfoot in, which always thought was kind funny.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a term for that, a medical term for it,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: choreo something. I'm sure I'll turn it up at some point,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: But basically, it's unwanted muscle movement. So you're trying to
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: just walk, but you're also doing like you're also just
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: just like you're dancing, says, even though you don't mean
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: to and you're trying really hard not to.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: So one of the that's one of the side effects
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of it, is these unwanted muscle movements. And then also
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: for that reason, in San Francisco, when it first started
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: being abused on the street, the hippies called it wobble weed. Oh, yeah,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: which makes a lot more sense now that you you
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: know a little bit more about it.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And we'll talk about the association with marijuana too, uh,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in a little bit. But why don't we take a break? Yeah, yep,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: all right, we'll put on staying alive and we'll stumble
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: up the sidewalk and we'll you right back, all right.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about what PCP does
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to you and sort of in the brain, and also
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: how you can sugar foot up the street. But it's
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: not like, uh, even though it was used as an anesthetic,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: that that association with sleepiness isn't accurate.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Right, No, it's not.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And like I said, you can go catatonic with your
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: eyes open, but you're still able to move around and
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: do things that you just shouldn't be doing. Like I
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: saw that people will frequently, like try to get off
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: a stretcher even though they're catatonic.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And the reason why it's it's a dissociate and you
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: feel not connected to your body. Your senses are coming
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: in hot and weird and not making any.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Sense to you. You know.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: It removes ego boundaries, so your feeling of self and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the distinction between you and other people and the rest
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: of the world around you and the supernatural has kind
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: of blurred or fallen away.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Right. I've heard dreamlike from well, to be honest, I've
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: known people have done this and they've said dream like.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: I can I could imagine that.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And then also, one of the other things I saw
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: that I thought it was just fascinating is that it's
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it makes it difficult to tell whether an event has
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: already happened in the past, is going to happen in
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: the future, or is happening.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Now right, the whole time time jump thing, right, Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Isn't that nuts?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And then of course, because it's a hypnotic sedative that
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: affects your your NMDA receptors that are involved in memory formation,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you you frequently black out even though you're walking around
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: doing stuff and even interacting, you probably aren't going to.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Remember most of it.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, big memory impacts. And the stuff comes on very
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: quickly too, which is one of the I think the historically,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: like the most addictive kind of recreational street drugs are
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: ones that are really fast acting, and PCP is definitely
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: one of those. What I didn't see, or maybe I
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: just overlooked it is how long it lasts.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: It can last for twenty four hours.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Right, it's a long lasting deal. Okay, that's right. I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: did read that because I remember, like when we did
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the crack episode. I think I always thought that crack
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: was some long term thing, but was shocked to learn
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: it was just like a super quick high.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this can be, but it depends
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: on how.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You take it, right, Should we talk about that?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's different ways you can take it, So let's
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: talk about that.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it used to be in the earlier days it
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: was like a liquid PCP a lot of times that
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you would take orally, but very quickly. The most recreational
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: use users used it like it came in like a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: crystalline powder, and they would typically smoke it or snort
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: it like a heroine or a cocaine, I guess, And
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: that became sort of the main way aside from and
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: again I said earlier we were going to talk about
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the Marijuana Association, that was dipping a marijuana joint or
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: just a regular cigarette, and liquid PCP has you can
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: do that with a lot of drugs are called wet drugs,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a thing. And there was some confusion
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: about the names because I heard I knew what SHRM
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: was because I'd heard that in a movie from Tuarantina movie,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: which one was that really yeah movie. I think it
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: was the one he wrote, only was it true romance
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: or maybe it was pulp fiction. It was Sam Jackson,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: and he wasn't introu or.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: No, I don't believe he was scared anyway.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: You smoke enough sherms something something something was the line.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And that's the first time I had heard that word.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: But that's a cigarette that was dipped in embalming chemicals
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: and I think kind of like a prison drug a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: lot of times, because that was something that you could
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: get apparently easier than you know, regular hard drugs. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I think for a time that was like PCP was
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes mixed with embalming fluid. Sometimes the just names were
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: used interchangeably. There was a lot of confusion in the
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: media about embalming fluid and PCP. Yeah, and I think,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I read a lot about it today, and
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: where I landed was sometimes it might have been mixed
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: with PCP, but sometimes people were smoking inbalming fluid as well.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So what I found from my research is that so
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: this is a big thing in like the mid nineties
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: to the early two thousands. Oh really yeah, And that
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: if you were smoking embalming fluid and you got high.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: It's because there was PCP in that embalming fluid. Oh,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: so it was mixed, and that it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Was yes, and that it was a that I read
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: from somebody, a medical examiner, who said, like, there's there.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: You don't get high at all from embalming fluid. He's like,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: I used to mix it myself, and if anybody would
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: have gotten high from it, I've spent more time around
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: it than most people. Never got even the slightest buzz.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: So it's the PCP that's making you highcha. And it
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: might not even be embalming fluid in the first place,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: because PCP has kind of a very distinct chemically smell
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: and taste, and it you could easily pass it off
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: as embalming fluid to somebody who'd never smoked PCP before.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: The thing that I kind of landed on was that
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: it was mistaken either among like recovery people or the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: GA or something. The slang term for PCP embalming fluid
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: came to be accepted as Oh, teenagers are now smoking
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: embalming fluid. By the L seven's, it ended up in
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the and it became self perpetuating. I think some kind
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of particularly low intelligent drug dealers were like, oh, we
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: can sell embalming fluid. We're gonna start robbing funeral homes
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: and then actually started selling embalming fluid and it was
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: all just a comedy of errors.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense of why it's so hard to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: separate fact from fiction online today, because it's all over
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the place once you start looking into that thing.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not really any drug ever. Crack used to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: come close in the eighties. People were hysterical about crack,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Crack baby super Predators. Yeah, it was really bad. But
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: as like for duration of like the hysterical moral panic
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: over it, PCP has every other drug beat by a
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: mile because not only is it like urban legend, but
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: that urban legend becomes fact because the media reports it. Yeah,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: drug abuse organizations say the same thing, the cops say
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: the same thing. Everybody's saying these same things, like if
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: you'll have superhuman strength, for example, that is not true.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: You don't get superhuman strength. We'll talk a little more
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: about that. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: but it's exactly what you said, is exactly right. There's
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: so much disinformation on PCPs you just end up having
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to guess here or there about what's true and what's not.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we can go ahead and talk about it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Some that was, you know, I invoked the Satanic panic.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It was sort of around those same times when we
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: were kids in the late seventies where I mean, I
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: remember PCP was like the scariest sounding thing on the planet,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: and it was sort of made out to be like,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: if you do PCP, there's a very good chance that
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you'll end up dead, and not from like overdosing on PCP,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: but because you've done something crazy, like you know, try
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to bake yourself in an oven or something because you
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: thought you were a cake. And every school, every region,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: every town had some story or set of stories that
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: were passed around urban legend style. Well, there were urban
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: legends about some friend of a friend or some friend's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: cousin who who they know for sure did this and
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they fought fifteen cops and ed used an example of
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: some kid who at a hockey game fought like twenty
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: cops or something. And it's just so funny how those
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: things proliferate. And we're not saying like in PCP, it
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: was just great. There was no problem with it, but
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't what it was made out to be, which
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was this a lot of times an excuse for cops
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: to beat down a person because all they have to
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: do afterward to say, we suspected they were on PCP
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: and they had crazy look in their eyes and they
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: were super strong. Ye, I mean Rodney King was supposedly
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: on PCP. You heard some cops yelling out the word
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: dust at the beginning of that video. Yeah, he's dusted,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: And that happens and happened all the time. I don't
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: think it's quite as common now, but it was a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: very prominent thing back then.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then cops speak, he's dusted, is raising the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: alarm that this person is going to try to kill
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: all of us and possibly could so go ahead and
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: use excessive force, And it was used as a defense
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: in the Rodney King trial. He didn't have any PCP
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: in his system, by the way, but that fear, just
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the very fact that cops are scared of superhuman strength
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: brought on by PCP is one of the things that
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: got those officers off the hook in the Rodney King trial,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: the Rodney King beating trial. But just the fact that
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: PCP gives people superhuman strength. Yeah, he didn't know he
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: wasn't on PCP. Ergo, they're not really guilty of using
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: excessive force because he could have been on PCP. And
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: if you strip away that argument, like these police officers
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: were let off for beating a man in a circle, Yeah,
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: because they were afraid he was on PCP, because PCP
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: gives you superhuman strength. Even though that doesn't actually happen.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It's just a total myth that's perpetuated still today.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's still around. I think you found this
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: meta analysis from a legal paper that really did some
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: scouring and found two cases where PCP was the sole cause,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the sole cause of like a violent behavior or violent episode.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Two out of like hundreds.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not saying that, you know, people do crazy,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy things and all kinds of drugs,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So we're not saying no one's ever been violent because
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and had PCP in their system. But the key is
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: did PCP trigger and cause that thing to happen? And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the evidence just says that that's just not the case. No.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: From what I saw, it amplifies your personality twenty times,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I think, is what one person put it.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: If you want to beat up people anyway aggressive anyway,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: then it might.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Then yes, that might be a problem, but you're not
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: going to have superhuman strength. Potentially, the one the one
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: explanation for that, because I did see videos of a
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: dude on PCP who was getting bear sprayed in the
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: face multiple times and just kind of wiped his eyes
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and kept walking around.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Was stay alive wing No, I had it on.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Mute, so as possible, it was, but he kept getting
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: tased repeatedly and nothing. He didn't have superhuman strength. He
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: was just disassociated from his senses, so he wasn't experiencing pain.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So you will not move away from noxious stimulized stimuli
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: like bear spray or tasers because it's not coming through.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And finally, not superhuman strength.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: That is not superhuman strength.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And there's also a really really like widespread idea that
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: at least one person on PCP is snapped perfectly good.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Handcuffs because of those superhuman strength.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just probably not the case that that ever
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: actually happened. So there's a lot of myths around this.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And again it's like you kind of hinted at like
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: we're not defending PCP. We're not saying like guys. PCP's
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: got such a bad rap. There's a lot of really
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: bad stuff that can come out of ingestion PCP. It's
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: just that superhuman strength is not one of them. That's
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: just a myth. And it has been used. It's been
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: argued to target those marginalized communities who use PCP and used.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: It's been used to justify excessive force. So much so
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I saw that the non or no less than lethal
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: weapon industry, tasers, bear spray, all that stuff that did
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: not exist until the cops started being criticized for using
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: excessive force and they had the the decision to either
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: use their police baton, their nightstick or their gun. That's
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: all they had, and they they when they encountered PCP users,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: they needed another option.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: So that's that's why we have that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is why to subdue PCP users. That's why
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: that whole industry exists.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: That's why it began.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Is that why I have bear spray hanging up at
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: my camp on the wall.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: That's right, because of PCP users in Washington, d C.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: In anatomy.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want to spray a bear, even I don't.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I think you're okay if a bear's coming at you.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: You can. You can spray that bear.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I mean I would, and that's why it's there. I
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: just said I don't want to.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: My first line of defense at at camp is I
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: have an air horn. Good so annoying my friends, drive
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: away the bear, drive away my friends on Sunday morning. Yeah,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: and then the bear spray would be the last resort.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what you do. Chuck this way. Do
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you got a bear coming at you? You lay down?
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: What is it prostrate when you're face down?
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I don't remember.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Let's say it is. Okay, yeah, I think it is.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: I don't remember. But you're laying face down, pretending you're dead.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Wait till the bear comes over and kind of moves
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: you with its paw and you roll over and spray
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: it in the face with the bear spray. Kind of
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: like that whole trope where you roll somebody over and
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: they're holding like a bunch of grenades with the pins
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: pulled out, same.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: Thing, but with bear spray.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: That's a great idea.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I think so too. I think we should go try it.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: That Elizabeth Banks should have made PCP Bear instead of
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Cocaine Bear. I know we disagree about that, Yes, we do.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: But what we can agree is that the story about
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: the crew of the Titanic movie, not the boat itself,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: but when James Cameron was making Titanic. This sounds so
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: much like an urban legend, but it's actually true that
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: at some I think it was another crew member that part.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was another
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: crew member.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: The mystery still like they've never fully.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, they dosed some chowder with PCP and dosed
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: everyone who ate that chowder, which was a lot or
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: most of the crew, and it really happened, and I
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: think different stories come out of that.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I think some people had a really hard time. Some
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: people probably loved it.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah they apparently there was a congo line and wheelchair
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: racing in the er at the local hospital. But then
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: other people, yeah, we're not having a good time at all.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Jinks Cameron said that one of the crew members, I
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: think he said a PA stabbed him in the face
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: of a pen and oh wow, he said.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: He was just.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Laughing, laughing, laughing about it, like like James Cameron was
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: laughing about having been stabbed in the face of a pen.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: The PA said this is for Avatar that hasn't even
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: happened yet.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Right, But this is I think the the biggest star
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: that got it was Bill Paxton because they were shooting
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: those current day shots and like Nova Scotia or something.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Boy, I hope that that old lady Old Rose didn't happen.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Was at a restaurant.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: She did not, Man, could you imagine?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: No, that would be really bad. We don't want our
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: senior friends taking PCP, especially not accidentally.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: Her acting might have improved, you never know. I thought
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: she did so, so she wouldn't very good in my opinion.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: So you want to take a break, Sure, let's take
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: a break, and then we'll come back and talk about
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: some problems with getting high on PCP, Chuck. One of
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: the things about PCP that makes it so vexing, yeah,
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: is that the symptoms that it can produce are really undesirable,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: and an overdose threshold is not very high at all.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: It basically dances along the top end of a normal dose.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: So a normal dose is between five and ten milligrams.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: I saw as low as one, yeah, but after.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: About ten milligrams, or maybe even at ten milligrams, you
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: might start exhibiting the exact same symptoms of somebody in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: the throes of a schizophrenic episode.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about that in a second. But
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: part of the problem there, I mean, that's a problem period.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: But part of the problem is the dosage, especially if
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: you're smoking fry or churm or something like that. Is
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sure the dosage isn't that accurate when you're dipping
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a joint or a cigarette and liquid, it's probably hard
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: to tell how much is on there.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: No, but I read that you can control it much
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: more easily. You just take it hit and wait a
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: couple minutes, and then sure if you if you start
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: to come down, you take another hit. And I saw
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: it like an old cop say, you can you know
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: if you smoke it, you know with intent, I guess
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you can stay high for twenty four hours just from
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: one one shurm.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Stick, right, Which means if you're if this is something
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that you know to do and recreationally do often, then
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: you probably know what you're doing. But if someone's like, here,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: try this thing and then ed, you know, use the
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: example of of you know, someone who like finds the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: joint on the street or something, and I'm sure that's happened.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: But I kind of lump that in with that that
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: eighties hysteria of like, you know, you might come across
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: a cigarette that's been laced with PCP that you don't
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: know about, or or buy a marijuana joints laced with PCP.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that really didn't happen very.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Much there, So, No, it does not happen very much.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Those stories are, they abound, but they're also really really rare.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: But there are stories of people who have done horrific
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: things on PCP. Sure the qualifier is though, that they
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: already had pre existing mental disorders, and the PCP does
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: not do any favors for you if you have a
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: pre existing mental condition, even if it hasn't come out
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: yet or emerged yet, it'll make it emerge. And they
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: argue that it's possible that even if you didn't have
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: one that was going to come out eventually, PCP could conceivably,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: especially after prolonged use, essentially infect you with schizophrenia.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one I've seen more often than anything else.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Is it will exacerbate something like that, but it can
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: also Why cann't we think of the word install.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: And still delivered, still produced.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Induce, produce produce schizophrenia. And you know, a little bit
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: of a silver lining on that is they actually can
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: use PCP now and do use PCP as far as
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: studying schizophrenia, and you know how those two are related
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: in humans.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big They give PCP to primates and
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: study what happens to study schizophrenia, and then weirdly, they're
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: also looking at PCP as a way to study or
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: produce drugs that treat Alzheimer's because schizophrenia apparently is associated
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: with a lack of glutamate. Remember, PCP inhibits glutamate and
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Alzheimer's results from they think an overabundance of glutamate in
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the in the brain. And so PCP has both of
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: those effects that can induce schizophrenia. It could treat Alzheimer's conceivably.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So I think the fact that it has so many
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: terrible myths around it has really made people cautious about
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: suggesting doing research using PCP.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like researching microdosing mushrooms or something like
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that now.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: But there is a there is a whole thread of
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: inquiry into it to say like okay, there's there's this
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: is doing some stuff to the brain that we should
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: be studying.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It can also induce seizures. It can really ramp
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: up your heart rate. It can it can produce rapid
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: involuntary eye movement. It's called nice stagmus.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not just like side to side or up and down,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: but in rotary fashion is one of the ways. So
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: your eyes are just going in a.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Cartoon style, yes exactly. Yeah. Uh. And it just seems
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to be sort of all over the map as far
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: like a very unpredictable drug as far as its sedative qualities,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: and then it's sort of amping you up qualities.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Yes exactly.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: That's what I was saying earlier, where you kind you
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: can just vacillate between extremely digitation and catatonia essentially, and
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: on the same trip over and over again. Really interesting,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: It is extremely interesting. One of the other big problems
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: with it, And this is why I said you probably
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: shouldn't vote if you are a frequent PCP user, not
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: because you're a member of a marginal community, but because
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: you probably have some really strange beliefs about yourself and
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: your place.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: In the universe.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: One of the big.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Things that comes out of it is especially prolonged use
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: and chronic use is a shift in your spiritual and
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: religious beliefs. And typically it kind of comes down to, Oh,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: I'm a god, and I need to just be hanging
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: out and not doing much because that's what gods do.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's also kind of ties back into the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: even though it's not superhuman strength, just a feeling of invincibility.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: But I've also seen that it's not so much an invincive.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Usually it's not an invincibility of like I can take
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: anyone on who wants to fight me. It's more of
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: like I'm invincible in a good way, like I can
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: do whatever I want. Again, not suggesting that it's like
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a motivational tool or something like that, sure, but it's
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: just one of the things that can happen.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And then conversely, if you are feeling, like say, socially anxious,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: you're probably going to experience profound paranoia. It will amplify
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: it one way or another. It's the same thing with
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: LSD that wholes set and setting thing right.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: So what else is there, Chuck, Well, if.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: You become addicted to PCP, there isn't like a sort
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: of a straight ahead pharmaceutical treatment. It's gonna you know
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have to wean yourself off of it through
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: therapy and treatment. Basically, I think ed did find that
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: chre prout here. I go chlor promozine core promisine, which
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: is a drug. It can help reverse the effects if
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: you're like like overdosing on PCP, but it's not like
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing you used to break an addiction.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: No, and you can get addicted.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: It does have a high incidence of dependence because it's
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: schedule too exactly. Not everything schedule two is actually addictive,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: But in this case it's actually correct that it stimulates
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: your reward center so much it produces euph you that
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you want it again. But also it can physically alter
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: your brain, not just to make you believe that you
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: are a god or something on earth, but also to
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: make that threshold for your reward system higher.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: So it's harder to.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Feel good even a normal on a normal basis, and
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: in turn, you end up having to ingest more and
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: more amounts of PCP to get high. And that's a
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: classic hall mark of dependency.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Yep, classic hall mark of many drugs, because you use
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: more and more and then that's just becomes more and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: more dangerous.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Again, the withdrawal symptoms are really bad too. You can
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: you can very frequently fall into major depression that can
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: last weeks.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, sometimes some of the symptoms don't ever go away,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: like you might have trouble talking or speaking. It's just
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: not it's not a good thing to get into, especially
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: long term.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not the seventies anyway. What are you
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: doing with PCP these days?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Did you see that Saturday Night Live skit with Tracy
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Morgan and Will Ferrell and Matthew Broderick.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: No, is that what you said? Yes, that that link
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: took me straight to a clip of The Ladies Man.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Oh right, That's why I gave you the timestamp at
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: the end. It's like at the end of the whole episode.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: All right, I missed that. I was like, what has
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the Ladies Man got to do with this? I was like,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I love the Ladies Man bit, but right.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: No, it had nothing to do with it.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Although it was it was basically like, uh, inside the
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Actors Studio kind of type thing, but for comedy, so
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: it was real highbrow. Matthew Broderick's the host, and he
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: was focusing on drug based comedy that had been inspired
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: by Cheech and Chong, and he featured Orbit and zach
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: or something like that. Who did PCP comedy. Yeah, Tracy
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Morgan was zach or or whatever, and Will Ferrell was Orbit,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: and they played little clips from their record, their hit
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: records from the seventies, and it's just them like screaming
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: about how there's snakes in the toilet and shooting the
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: toilet with the shotgun. It's it's really funny, even if
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: this stuffed mythical, it's it's just so easy to make
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: really hilarious jokes off of PCP.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what comedy is. No one's going to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: come along and say, like, actually, and that's not what
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: PCP does.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: That's good stuff.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: And then one other thing, if you want maybe a
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: less than accurate depiction of PCP, you can check out
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: the movie from nineteen eighty two called.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Desperate Lives that the hell Hunt.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, a teenage Helen Hunt smokes PCP, jumps out of
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a second story window in her high school and becomes
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: paralyzed as a result.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Was that an actual after school special
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: or it's possible it had that stink?
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely it was definitely a made for TV anti
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: drug movie, but I'm not sure if it came on
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: after school or not.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I remember very vivid memories of that one, and then
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I know I mentioned it before, probably in one of
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: the marijuana episodes the uh Chachi in Charge.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Who's the guy Scott Bayo.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Scott bo was in one on marijuana and I remember
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: that's the first time I heard a bong because he
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: smoked out of a bomb and had that bubbling and
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: it's like, what is that? It was like it sounds
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: like like rice crispies or something, and I was a
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: little kid. I was just like, I've never heard anything
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, So there you have it. Scott Bo
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and Helen Hunt, the kid, those two together.
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Apparently Helen Hunt was in two anti PCP.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, I thought that one was an LSD one two PCPs.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Good for her.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how her career started.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she went on to star in the
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: show Matt about PCP.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: That's right, and then she did at a guest spot with
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Orbit and Zach Manta.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I gotta watch that.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's at the very end. I think it's the
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: less Kid.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: All right, let me cue it up.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: All right, well, well Chuck's queuing it up everybody. That
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: means it's time for listener mail.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Oh wait, so I can't watch it right now?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Sure we'll wait. Okay, it's pretty funny, but you can't
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: turn it up. You have to put it on your
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: headphones because we can't pay for the copyright usage.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Let me find me boys here, anyone funnier than Tracy.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: Morgan, I don't think so.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I love that guy. So this is about manners. Hey, guys,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: it's been a million years at your old Canadian Palamanda Hear,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: who missed the Toronto Live show. So Amanda says, I
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: remember Amanda many moons ago when stuff you should know
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: was new, and my boy Grant was about eleven. Chuck
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: sent me an email response that encouraged Grant to read more,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: and he did. Thanks for that. He's twenty seven and now,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: oh goodness, and a carpenter living in Calgary who read
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: your book. We are still avid listeners, and you guys
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: kept the company on his recent drive from Toronto. You're
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the best companions on drives and while doing household chores,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: while doing so many other things. Anyway, about manners. My
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: grandmother was a stickler for good manners, as were my parents.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I passed out on to Grant and we have often
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: been told how good manners make situations so much easier.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I was recently asking in a professional development setting what
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the best advice for life I ever received was, and
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: obviously I responded with what I told my kid and
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: now stepkids. Manners are free and they're a social lubricant.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: It always gets a laugh and then once considered a
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: nod and oh, that's right.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And then everybody has a sandwich and goes their separate.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Wings the dining table. If someone forgets their napkin on
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: their lap or cuts their food all at once instead
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: of eating it bite by bite, my partner and I
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: will say if you were invited to dine with the queen,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: And it always gets a big eye roll and giggle
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: at the table and make sure that the napkins are
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: also in lapse though, and the food is cut properly.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: It's a fun game for all. I hope you have
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: a marvelous day. Can't wait to hear the next episode
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: after all these years. Stuff you should know is rock
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: and roll nice?
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: That was Amanda, That was Amanda.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Manners are free, though, I like that. I don't know
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: so much. The social lubricant part I might lose because
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: manners are free is just so succinct.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: So I kind of like that, you know, I was thinking, Remember,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: I was kind of railing about elbows on the table
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: just being so dated and unnecessary. I've been thinking about
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: it since then, and while I still agree that it's
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: a great example of people being overly uptight about manners,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: as if their identity is associated with it, and if
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: you violate it, you're somehow insulting them, I disagree with
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: that part. But I realized that being aware of whether
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: your elbows are on the table or not makes you
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: more aware of everything you're surrounding, the people with you,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the food you're eating.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just makes you.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of done with you keeping your elbows
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: up the table, not because somebody told you to, because
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: you can do whatever you want as far as your
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: elbows are concerned, as long as you don't put them
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: in somebody else's space, but because it makes you more mindful.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Don't dip your elbows in your partner soup. But I
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: do want to say there's a couple of elbows on
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the table methods though, if you're if you're in the
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: middle of eating and you've got like your elbow on
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: the table and your hunch forward and you're eating with
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: the other hand. I think that's kind of the rule.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: But like, if you're eating and you're done and you're
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: having conversation, to push the plate away and put both
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: elbows on the table and pat your hands together in
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: a pensive way while you think of something smart and funny. Like,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: that's a whole different deal.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's elegant.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: So I've been training myself by putting the little dab
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: of Momo's poop on each of my elbows right before
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: dinner to make sure that I don't put them on
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: the dinner table.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: It's working really well.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: That poop stays on your elbows belongs.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: That was from Amanda, what was your son's name? The
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: one you inspired.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Grant who has been listening since eleven and is now
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you know, sixty.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: That's awesome.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to us, Amanda and Grant, and thank
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: you for listening to this episode.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: And if you want to get in touch with us.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Like Amanda did and Grant by proxy, you can send
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.