Latest / The Goo Crew / How We Estimate Paint Jobs (And Close 78% of Them) | The Goo Crew #6

Transcript

How We Estimate Paint Jobs (And Close 78% of Them) | The Goo Crew #6 · The Goo Crew

0:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, sir.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: So what is your favorite way to do a pain estimate?
0:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh you should just stop doing 'em and just let the work come in.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: That's my favorite way.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Just don't price it out.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Just don't just hope it works out.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: You know?
0:14
SPEAKER_00: It works.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: But just put out that energy into the universe and you know it's gonna come back.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: All right.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Podcasts are over.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: No, uh so you know, you're gonna get a lead from some source.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I would say we could probably branch it off into like a cold lead and a warm lead, because that is a little bit different.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: But let's just say you have a a a warm lead, but you haven't worked for this person before.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: So you got the work from like a recommendation from a friend or something like that, so they know you a little bit, know kind of the quality of your work, things like that.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: So uh then when particularly when I have never met the person before, like face to face or been in their home, uh, you know, I call them, try and call them back, like from the time you get the source of the lead, like say it's an email that came into your email box and said, like, hey, we're looking to get some work done.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: I heard so-and-so said you did really great work over their house, we're looking to get an estimate.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Email them back within 24 hours or call them back in 24 hours, and then just be like, hey, uh, hey, it's you know, I was like, hey, it's Jeremy the painter uh the painter, and uh, you know, heard you're looking to get some work done.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: See if you can get a little bit of information about like how they know you, just give yourself a little bit of intel on the way in, and then obviously be friendly and professional and all of that, and then schedule the the estimate.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, I try and schedule my estimates like within a week of when they have called me, like as far as like if they called you on a Monday, maybe try and get to it towards the end of the week.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: It's that's gonna depend on your schedule, but just at least schedule it.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then depending on how much like work and stuff you have, like just the sooner you can close the loop on actually getting the estimate out, the better.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I try not to leave them, leave them marinating for too long, um, which I you know different levels of success overall with that.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: But um so then when I actually go out and do the estimate, make sure you have you know put the address into GPS, you kind of know roughly how far away it is from your house or where you're gonna be going from.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh typically I schedule my estimates in the morning uh before I go to the job site.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: So I usually, you know, go to the estimate, do it, and then come over to whatever job site that I'm working on or we're all working on.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I usually wear like street clothes, so I wear nicer clothes than what I paint in, uh, particularly on a first time person that I've never like done a quote for before.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh that that just it's a little bit more of a professional feel uh as far as like when you show up, you're not covered in paint and like sweaty and gross.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: It's generally why I do the estimates at the beginning of the day.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: You can do them at the end of the day, it just we just bring a change of clothes with us to the job site and like some deodorant so you just don't smell like a complete dirt ball when you show up.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because sometimes you know you're working outside, you're dirty, you just try and clean up a little bit so you're not looking like a friggin' turd.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, get there on time, you know, go up to their house, and then uh, you know, once you're you know, knock on the door, whatever, pleasantries.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: And uh, I'd say after it used to be very straightforward where I would just shake their hand.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Now it's gotten a little bit weirder after COVID.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Some people are still a little squirrely on that.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: That's just something you have to like feel out a little bit.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: But I would say most people now are back to handshakes.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you'll get a vibe for it because if they kind of step away from you when you come in, you can be like, all right, cool.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you know, they're gonna be like, hey, I'm I'm so-and-so.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, most people are super chill, super happy.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: They're just happy you showed up roughly when you said you were going to.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then something that helps that I've been doing more is give yourself like an arrival window so you have a little bit of margin to work with.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Be like, you know, usually I do my quotes like 8 45 a.m.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: So I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna be there between 8 30 and 8 45, or 8 45 and 9 o'clock if they're a little farther away.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: That just gives you a little bit of buffer so that you're following through on what you're saying you're gonna do.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh then, you know, when it show up, then like, hey, we're having this done.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: People love telling you about their house, so you're gonna get a lot of information you don't need.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is my new puppy.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: This is that, like, this is blah, blah, blah.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: And then you just want to be respectful.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have to take your shoes off.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: That's that's just is what it is.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then they're gonna take you to uh the an area like I mean, the estimate that I just did, they're like, hey, we just had these two uh bathrooms renovated, they're ready for paint, and then you know, you look at it.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you are newer to quoting uh and doing estimates, it's not a bad idea to have a laser measurer in your pocket so you can get measurements of everything.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have been uh lazy about that like recently, but I'm pretty good at going off of reference photos.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Um and then the there this is just like a weird thing I've noticed.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: If even if you have had a lot of reps at looking at something, just take your time.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Because if you only if you look at a bathroom and you're like, I've painted a thousand of these, you snap one picture and then you turn around, you're like, I'm good.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: That's not enough time for them to feel like you've like looked around, even though you've seen everything that you needed to see.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Especially if you're brand new to them.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: So if they don't know your thing, you kind of you almost you almost need to give them a little bit of a show of like being meticulous with how you're doing it.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: They like to see you measure sometimes.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you wanna, and I've I've not done that sometimes, but like it's something where I can look at it and I'm like, I know exactly how much paint I need.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: I know, and then if you're new to you do need those numbers to start giving yourself accurate data as to how much paint you're gonna be using, how much time each room's gonna take.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes when you look at something, uh we still mess this up and we've gone over this on like jobs we've quoted poorly, but like if you if you're like, oh, it's a basement, and then the square footage is like way off like in your mind, because you're thinking it it slots into a typical spot of like typical basement, and then it's triple the size of what a typical basement is, and then you get in there, you're like, uh, which is what you don't want to do.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: So you need to basically with an estimate, you need to go there, greet the client, and then gather all of the data you need to make an accurate projection of the work that you are going to be doing.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh, some things to look for when you get in there, like, especially if you've never worked in the house before.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like a fresh client, fresh house you've never worked in, all of that stuff.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: You want to look and see like how is the finish quality on the walls?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, are there nail pops anywhere?
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Is there like is the paint failing anywhere?
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Are there like, you know, is the tape buckling like any what how what's the prep involved?
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Because that's where you're gonna spend a lot of the time.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you're trying to do like a you know, a higher level finish on something.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: You gotta kind of get a good gauge of how much work it's actually gonna be.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: And you're not gonna know 100% until you start actually getting in the room and working.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're always gonna find something that you didn't see or overlooked or whatever.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: That's that's not the goal of the estimate.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: You're trying to get a a decent price that you're willing to do the work for, uh, where you're gonna make money and the client is gonna pay you.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh so the once you have, you know, go through the rooms, and then I will say too, if the quote, if the they're like, hey, can you look at this room, this room, that and they're still you're like looking at every room, like just take your time.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I the that there's a tendency to want to rush out of there, but just make sure you're gathering all of the data you need to like give them an accurate estimate, give yourself an accurate estimate so you're not screwing the future version of you that has to do the work, uh, and just be meticulous with that.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Like go, I like going room by room.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then one of the things that I noticed too is that depending on how old your client is, there's something about if you just come in with just your phone and you are taking pictures and then like uh like typing notes in like your notes app, it they don't it's not as good of a response as if you have a pad of paper and a pen.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that is.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So you bring a pad of paper and pen with you.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: You do okay.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Even if I never open it, I always have a pad of paper and a pen in my hand.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've just noticed that it like it it looks like you're doing more, and I I can't I can't I have it, it's the green, it's a nice, like whatever fancy one.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like it's just nice to take notes and you know it it but a lot of times every especially younger guys, everyone's gonna be doing it on their phone.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not saying you have to, I'm just saying like think about it.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: If you if just you want to look a little more professional if you've met someone for the first time, they just want to make sure you're actually taking all the you know, if you go around look for two minutes and then bounce, they're gonna be like, this guy didn't even take a measurement.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, so you find that the more time you take, like on an estimate and just just being intentional, that that goes better and the acceptance rates are most likely higher.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially with like so on on clients I've already worked for, I'll show up and paint clothes and just my phone and like I they already know what's up, but just a fresh person, you're like, you know, again, I wear my nice hat.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: I got like good, nice like usually like a collared shirt that has like our logo on it or whatever, you're not the just just a little bit nicer than your paint stuff.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: And then uh if you can be seen to taking notes, that's uh the that's you're not actually taking notes, but maybe on your phone.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's and then the thing that I really go off of, and this is the most important piece of it, is either take uh I take pictures of every thing that I'm doing uh in the in each room.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Try and get like different angles so you have a good idea of how big the room is.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then make sure you can also do like panning shots on like you can circle around and you know take videos.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: I always tell them like, look, these photos aren't going anywhere, these are just for my reference when I go put the estimate together.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not like posting it on YouTube or whatever.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Um so the and then when you go room by room and you talk to the client, they're gonna give you a bunch of information that you don't care about, you don't need, you just have to be like cho like cool with that.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna tell you about you know, small talk, which is that's part of it.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: You're trying to, you know, you want to relate to them because one of the things that they're also sussing out as you are doing the estimate.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: One, they want to kind of know that you're not an idiot, you know what you're talking about.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then two is like they're gonna be inviting you into their house to do work.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So is this person gonna steal my stuff?
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Are they going to like ruin my things?
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, are they an idiot?
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, you you've gotta present the you know that you're competent.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: You're competent, you're professional, you're not gonna mess their stuff up.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people are very nervous about having people in their house.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: So you that's on a spectrum as well.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: But these are all things that like I'm vibing out as I'm talking to the person and putting them at ease and being like, Oh, I got this, it's fine.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when you're when you're looking at the work, the other thing you want to be talking about, like an easy example in a bedroom, is that you go and you're sweeping through with your your eyes, you're taking pictures, maybe you're shooting your laser measure on each wall to get your, you know, how high is the ceiling, all of that stuff, is you want to be talking about what's included, what's not included in each room.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: You're like, okay, are you expecting a full repaint?
11:58
SPEAKER_00: So we're doing ceiling walls and trim and all the doors.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then you're like, cool.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Though that's pretty much mostly what we quote is full repaints, which like then I I have that's like a better reference point.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: When they start saying, like, this thing here, that thing here, just a piece of trim here, touch up that, like that that's when you need to get way more specific with your notes.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because it just get those are actually harder to do than like a full repaint of a room.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you can be like, hey, are we doing the interior of the closets?
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's like a big one that will screw you later.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: Because if you just say in your estimate, like bedroom, and then you didn't say does not include the interior of the closet, and then they're like, and then you show up and they've cleared the closet out and they're expecting you to paint it, you're like, damn.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: No, it's four or five hours down the tubes.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Down the tubes.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, depending on how big the closet is, they can they can really they can eat up a good chunk of a day just getting in there, you know, spinning around on a two and a half foot ladder.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so just make sure you take good notes on what's included, what's not included, and then you obviously need to get all of their like intake information.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: You might already have that from the email, but like name, address, good contact phone number, and then their email address.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Because you're probably gonna be emailing the estimate to them.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: So just make sure that's very clear for you.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and if you do take notes on a notepad, uh, this is something that I do too.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I died, I then take a photograph of the notes that I took uh with like their info there.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: That way I just have it in my phone because sometimes I just leave my notepad in my truck and it's not always with me when I'm putting the estimate together.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: So uh that's just a little trick-or-o.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: I might be full of crap on the notepad thing.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: It's just something I've noticed.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it doesn't hurt.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, and for reference, uh I used to do all the quotes, now I do some, and Jeremy does the bulk of them.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: And so we I've tracked the acceptance rates, and I thought I could not have been beat.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: I was a 70% acceptance rate.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: So if we do 100 quotes, we get 70 of them.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Yours was like closer to 80 or in the 80 percent.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And right now, last quarter, we did I think we did 27 estimates, and our acceptance rate was 78%.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: The quarter before, 77%.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: So your close rate is insane.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And my prices are a little more expensive than Josh's.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, actually, Jeremy actually prices them a little higher because he's probably more accurate.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh, we get more accepted.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: So that's why you do the bulk of our quotes.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll get into pricing here as I'm I'm walking through.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: I just thought it would be I thought it'd be good for reference, you're not just full smoke.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: I I track the numbers and uh the the a good acceptance rate that's like acceptable for across all construction fields.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Like if you get one out of three, that's not bad, especially for cold leads.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: If you get in 50%, you're pretty darn good.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And if you're north of 60%, it's like Hall of Fame numbers.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, people like me.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: So and it is they're all they're mostly warm leads, so they're not, you know, we're bidding out from someone from our website.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'll you you're gonna the more if you're I know a lot of the guys that might be listening to this are starting out and maybe haven't done a lot of quotes.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're gonna get a good if you're paying attention, you're gonna get a good vibe for like who's going to resonate with you as a client and who's not.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think I don't know, I don't know how I just know how I think about it, so that's why I'm speaking about from my experience.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh Josh uh has no radar for whether or not it's a good or bad vibe.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Um so like where ja where Brendan, who's the guy that we who's on our crew and me, like we I can we like sniff it out really quick.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: We're like, this feels weird.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh and Josh always gives us crap for it because it's usually one he's quoted out.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, what is going on in this house?
15:47
SPEAKER_01: It's like, dude, they hired us, just do the work.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh so people are gonna have you know different sensitivities to that, but you're also you're gathering data so you can put together an accurate estimate.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: That's like kind of the overall thing that's and what are you tracking?
16:00
SPEAKER_01: When you say if you look at a room, are you going through like prep, ceiling, trim, walls, or are you saying this whole shebang will take us two and a half days?
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Because I've painted a bunch of these before.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, how are you breaking it down?
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh so when I uh there's certain like kind of uh trip wires I have in my head that are like red flags in a room that I know it's gonna take longer, uh especially when you start talking about like what are you thinking about in here?
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Um so like the one that I just did this week that we or last week that I got accepted, uh when I I looked in there, you're like, okay, what are you guys thinking?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh well, we're thinking if they start saying stuff like accent walls, like we want to do this fancy like colored drip, something like that.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: You just need to be like, it's this is outside of my normal repaint where I'm gonna do white ceiling, white trim, and whatever on the walls.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: That's kind of like our typical loadout that we're doing.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: That's what most people go with in the homes that you're in.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when I like when you look at a bedroom, you're like, okay, this is a master bedroom, it's like a little bit bigger.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for like when's the last time it was painted?
17:06
SPEAKER_00: What's the quality?
17:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for like uh water stains, big drywall repair stuff, like big damaged areas.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh if there's like a bajillion nail pops, uh like the overall finish quality is kind of what I'm assessing on the more like meta level.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the finished quality in the rest of the house that can kind of give you an idea of the their expectations of the finish quality that they're expecting?
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then a lot of times they have done something that has triggered them to want you to do the work.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Something like we had new floor put in and then tire upstairs.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Now there's quarter round that's new quarter round on all the baseboards.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: So, like, okay, I've got a caulk and putty, all of that stuff.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Just things that are gonna slow me down outside of the norm are the things that I'm gonna make notes of.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Other than that, I'm just taking reference pictures to like memori.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I also have a I should say this too, which is why I'm trying to explain what I do.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: I have a freakish memory visually, like I have a very good memory.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: Josh has mentioned it before, but like I was a freak in school.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to study stuff.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, I can just once I see it, it's in my brain.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, particularly when I do an estimate, uh, once that ticket is open and I drive to a place and look at it all and make my notes, like I can keep all that in my anything that I talked about with the client I have in my head.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: So when I do the estimate, it's still in there, even if if I haven't done it in like a week.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: So you're like a waiter that could just hear the order and just you don't have to write it down.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't I don't need to, and then I've had to force myself on nuke is to take notes.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I write stuff down that like this doesn't matter.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: I just write nonsense down.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I'll write like poop, poop, poop, yeah, like it just doesn't matter, it doesn't matter because I already have it all in my phone, yeah, um, and in my brain.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: So, but anyway, the I am grateful for like sp particularly like exclusions, we're like, hey, we're not doing this, we're not doing bigger closet.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh on the the two bathrooms I looked at, they're mirror images because the bathrooms are there's a hall bath and a master bath, and they're basically the same profile on each side, and then they have these little annoying closets that are on the inside.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, something I always check for is like, do I need to paint the shelving that's in there, or is it like prefab or whatever?
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Like those are things, but like those bathrooms, I've probably painted uh the exact that exact setup like a hundred times.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: So I've got a good reference point in my mind of how much that bathroom's gonna like how long it's gonna take.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: I think that's the biggest key is figuring out how long that's everything is gonna that's the 95% of everything.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Literally, all you're trying to figure out on the estimate is how long is this going to take me to do.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: If they said yes today, how long is it gonna take you to do?
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And you can't well, we're I'm gonna talk about that when I get into like pricing and how you actually figure it out.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: But the the other thing from just looking at the work is you want to suss out whether or not you'd actually want to work for this person.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Um you the bar for whether or not you're gonna work for a person is going to be significantly lower when you're starting out.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Your barometer is gonna be will they accept my bid and pay me?
20:23
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Like you're just like, I need the work and I need the work and bills to pay and I need and like that's it.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: But when you also what I have noticed, uh this is like a mindset thing going into it, is uh, and it's easier to do when it's actually true, but even before when you go in, you don't want to be like thirsty for the work, and or uh even if you are thirsty for the work, you need to not come off as thirsty for the work.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: So you don't want to be like, oh, please, I need this work, I'll do anything, please.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, like you can smell the desperation.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: You you've even if you are desperate, because we've been there, yeah.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Cause they yeah, and we've we've been there where you're like, we need this job.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: You're like, I kind of really need this one.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Nothing going on in two weeks.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've like a two-week gap in my schedule that I need to fill.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, but just having that like be realistic with yourself of like if if they accept this job, then I have to do it.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: And be like, is that something that you would be excited about?
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just gonna like meet a need?
21:28
SPEAKER_00: That's totally fine.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: We've taken a ton of work, particularly early on, where it was like, we'll do whatever.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh and and that's it's totally fine.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: But once you're particularly when your book is more filled, like our book is we have a shitload of work right now.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: We probably have like 150k booked right now, at least.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's more than that right now.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's uh stacking up quite quickly.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have uh uh quite a busy season coming up, and it's right when Josh and I are both going on vacation.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: So it's a great, great.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful time.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Free time.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh so but just think about that when you go in.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Like if you have to kind of prep yourself in your truck, like just be like, be chill about it.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Be like, make sure you take your time and uh you know you don't want to screw future you when you go out and do the estimate.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Like because a lot of times you want to like blow through it and get out of their space as quickly as possible, because some people are uncomfortable with that.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: But just give yourself enough time to gather the data you need to put out an accurate estimate.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then particularly you're looking for if you start doing stuff like for exterior or big foyers, like okay, you need to imagine yourself doing the work and like how big a ladders do you need, uh what's the blah blah blah, like that kind of stuff.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And then another thing to ask them kind of on the way out is uh like do they have a time frame as to when they're expecting to get the work done or want to get the work done?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh sometimes you can ask that on the phone initially if you think they need it done within a week.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Because some people are like, I'm moving in a week, can you paint this in the next three or four days?
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you you will get calls with people are panicking and they're like, I need an estimate right now.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: They really want you to do the work, and if you can do it, they will pay.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so and that can be a good thing because it's putting pressure like where the and sometimes people cannot get people to come out and look at the work, even a lot of painters will ghost people, they'll be like, Yeah, I'll be here and then, and then they don't show up.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: And uh a lot of people are like surprised you actually showed up when you said you were going to.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: The bar is very low, like it's super, super low to like meet clients' expectations.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: So, um, and then gather all the data.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: Something else that really helps is if you can demonstrate some level of proficiency of you know what you're talking about, uh, that's very helpful because they're you know you what I always do like when I I have like you're gonna develop some sort of spiel uh where if I'm doing a bathroom, I'll be like, all right, and just so I'll be like, just so you know, uh for uh a lot of our interior projects, we use Shern Williams products, we use their higher-end stuff.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh in my estimate, the paint and materials are gonna be included in the cost, so you don't have to pick up any of that.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, for the bathroom, the only thing that's different than anything else that we do is that you know, since this bathroom has a shower in it, we're gonna use a mildew and moisture resistant paint on the ceiling, uh, and then just check to see if like, you know, does it have a fan that works?
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Are you getting a new fan?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a renovation, yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: And be like, hey, so when that happens, like where you know, do you have you had mold issues before you're gonna be able to see because yeah, shit on the ceiling and stuff.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: But be like, okay, well, you know, if just on a very specific example, be like, does the how's the airflow in here?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, my kids take super long showers, they never cut the fan on, stuff like that.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's where, like, okay, well, then we're gonna use emerald or duration satin on that ceiling because that's gonna be more durable, uh, as opposed to using a dead flat.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: So just things like that where you're you're saying like specific products, how you lay it down, your process, they might ask you on things, and um this is also assuming that you are proficient at what we're talking about.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: If you know what you're doing, if you know what you're doing.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, like I he'd be like, hey, I so when we do a bat, I'm gonna tarp off everything, I'm gonna sheet off the vanity and plastic, everything's gonna get tarped off.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: You're trying to make them comfortable with your process and what it's gonna look like.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Um you're also educating them as you like you look competent, and then this like more of you like you're just building trust.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I would use sadden if you have people that take a lot like long showers here.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And uh I feel like that's the reason that you sell a lot of jobs, they trust you almost instantly or within like because they know you're competent and you're very good at vibing and out and reading someone, and it's and also what you said about not being thirsty.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: I took a really fancy professional sales course like a a while ago, and the biggest thing they said, if like if anything, walk into wherever you're going, where you're gonna sell, like you have twenty million dollars in the bank.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you'll be so much more relaxed, and when you're relaxed, you're better at presenting, you're better at everything, and then people just want to be like they're like, Oh, this guy's not thirsty for the work.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but that like what you said there is like a huge thing.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Just pretend you have 20 million dollars in the bank, and you were like, but you you still want to actually work.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: People might not want to work for that 20, but you're just more relaxed and not thirsty for the work, like you said.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: That's a huge part of it.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you're uh so it and that's something that you can control a bit yourself, like just based on your your disposition, how your days go, and like when you feel like you're in a good like mental space, you can since since you're scheduling these estimates, you know, sometimes I I do have to like shoehorn stuff in around the client.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: May have a schedule that doesn't necessarily give you the opportunity to do the quote when you would like to.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: You might have to shoehorn in after work or before work or sometime where you don't typically do that.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but if you know you're in like a better mood in the morning and more chill, or if it's after work, like I hate doing quotes on the way home because then I I'm I those are the usually the ones where I've gathered the worst data because I just want to go, I want to be done.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm like Friday at five o'clock.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a bad don't do that.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, unless that's your only option.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh so yeah, the and then it's similar, I would say it's probably similar to when you go and like interview for a job.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to seem like you're desperate to get that position.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, because in a sense, when you're doing an estimate, you are signing up to have this person, they're not necessarily your boss, but you are working for them.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: They're your boss for a week or two.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: They're they're your boss for the duration of the job, or they're at least some.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Your client, yeah.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: They're your but you are working for them.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Like painting when you own your own business and you're running your own show, you don't have a boss, you have like hundreds of bosses that you're working for, but you can also fire them and not work for them later.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: So, like it's they don't have all your income.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Like this one only has one one hundredth of your income.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: It's like a boss with a really low leverage on you.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's kind of what it is.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, what Josh was saying is is uh I've found to be very accurate where you just you want to be, you know, calm, polite, all the things, not look like a complete dirt bag.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then this is a a side note, but just whatever vehicle that you are pulling up in, have it not look like a complete piece of crap.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Like just clean.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Just just clean what whatever whatever it is, just make it like what we've seen guys roll up in like a dirtball van, and then they have like wah wa cups stuffed and receipts stuffed in the dashboard.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: They get out and like dirt falls out and trash.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not a good look.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: You want to make a good impression when you roll up, and then the nicer the neighborhoods you're rolling into, the like the more you kind of want to be mining your P's and Q's.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: More etiquette, more etiquette or just good etiquette in general.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't walk across their front lawn.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, walk through their driveway and then through the sidewalk.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: And then what I do most of the time, unless I've worked there before, I don't park in their driveway.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: I almost always park on the street.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to block anybody in.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't want to create any logistical issues.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: If someone's trying to get out to go to work or school, you don't want to oh, can you leave your car?
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And then it messes up kind of the whole vibe.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times when you're doing an estimate, you're doing it in like the shoulder hours.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: So you're doing it like as kids are going to school, as kids are coming home, as people are coming home from work, as people are leaving for work.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, so just be there's there's things like that that are very useful to just be like, you don't want to be the problem.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: You want to be Josh and I always talk about being a smooth operator.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Like we're we're in, we're polite.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh, also, like, you know, you don't want to be like Johnny Turbo and stink like hell.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, you want to be do not smell, do not smell, try and look like you're not, you know, just look look like a competent human.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Like recently showered, like in the last 24 hours or so.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh so yeah, so just the the some of that stuff should be obvious, but it's not obvious to everyone because I've seen how some guys show up.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, when you've gathered all your notes and that, and I know some of the fancy paint course we said is you type it up in your truck, you present it to them, and you present it to them in person.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: That is not what we've dead have done, and our acceptance rates are very high.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And I know people who want run million-dollar paint companies who just take it back to them and send an email out, and they still have 70% acceptance rates.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the that's like more of a a higher pressure sales tactic is when and a lot of guys do this while they're bringing an iPad and do that, and that is something else that you can do that if you don't want to do uh like a notepad and a uh like your phone, if you set up an iPad to to like do all your intake, that's totally fine.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Some of the newer guys might be more comfortable with that.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: That are uh because they have you know the iPads have awesome cameras, you can gather all your day, and then you can figure you can have your entry form and type all that in.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: That's people are really used to that with a lot of other type of contracting as well.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh like from Verizon and all those guys are all coming with iPads that come from the thing.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: So that's a anyway.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Once hey, you have all your stuff, uh usually I give them a time frame on my exit.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: I'll be like, I'm like, cool, and then you know, you bullshit with them a little bit more and be like, hey, uh listen, I'm gonna, I'm gonna uh, you know, I've got a couple estimates in the hopper right now.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be working on these.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna catch up on my paperwork uh by like the end of the week.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: If you don't have something from me by the weekend, uh reach out because and then this is something I've been doing all the time now, and that people it it seems I'm like ca because it makes them concerned.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why this works, but uh Jeremy's advanced sales strategy.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Jeremy's pretty good.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: No, I like this.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: So it I I've I've done this for like two years now.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'll be like, hey, uh, so you're gonna get an email from me from our CRM software.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: If you don't see something from me by the weekend, it the date doesn't matter, just some time you can actually follow through on.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes our emails from our CRM software get caught in spam.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh so if you don't hear from me, like just make sure you check your spam folder and then reach out if you don't see it, because I may have, you know, something might have gotten lost.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: So then they're like, oh, cool.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: It sets the expectation that it's coming.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then a lot of times now with when I send the estimate out, because we use uh Jobber, which is our CRM software, uh customer relationship management, that's what it stands for.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there is that what it is?
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh um so the uh you can send it via email or text, and so then a lot of times I'll send it both ways, and that way I just make sure that they get it.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh but something like that that gives them an expectation of when the estimate is coming, uh, is very nice, and then you can just you know I I don't know why that works, but it's seems to get a good hit rate on that.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh yeah, so then you you know shake hands, say thanks for having me out, I'll appreciate it, I'll get back to you, or whatever.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: And they might have more questions for you.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: And usually once I've looked at all of the work, I'm gonna have some questions in my own mind of like things I need to clarify, color stuff.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh the color thing is another big friction point that people uh run into, and then I try and at least be like, Well, do you are you thinking like white trim, white ceilings, things like that?
33:43
SPEAKER_00: So I'll start kind of having that conversation.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably in a little bit of a unique situation because I have so much YouTube content that is also useful to something that they're challenged with.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times I will send them a video uh from our YouTube channel on how to pick colors, or maybe it's an example of us doing the work in a similar space, something like that.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And then they get to actually see me do the work and talk, and like our YouTube videos do pretty well, so like it's a and it's a it's a nice way where they th figure out that I'm not a psychopath.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's nice if you you can we used to have a member of the book of printed out photos of here's some before and after, especially when we were starting out.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: We had a physical book of before and after pictures.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember that.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I don't know if I still have it, but it was they were great pictures.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: It was like in June 2007, here's this exterior we painted, and I would give it to them.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, especially because this we were I'm I was newer to the all the estimate and everything, and they would oh great, and like sometimes they wouldn't even look at it, but they're like, Oh, this guy's legit.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because he's he painted this, here's the before and here's the after.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometimes that's all you need.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, so all right, so you've gathered all of your fiddly bits.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: You've got your data, you've got your square footage, uh, if if that's you know, if you actually took measurements, but you should at least have a lot of reference pictures of the work, some notes, and the client's intake information.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: So then uh time passes a few moments later.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then you go to your, you know, sit down on your computer, and then you know, you're gonna pull up, you know, we used to do it in like Google Docs or Word or whatever, uh, but nowadays we use our our Jobber software, which is very good.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we should probably have an affiliate with them.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Some point.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but they're if you're looking for one, they're great.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: And uh they've really we how long we've been using Jobber for 2020 or 2021 around there.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: So we've been in that for a while, and what's awesome is it's basically building your database of client, all your clients.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: So it's you have your email, their or their email, their addresses, and like their phone number, contact, and all that stuff.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: It's great to it's so easy to like find people and all of that.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and then when I sit down to do the estimate, I pull up a new browser window, I go into the software, and then I you know, like add new client, type in all their info, you know, verify you know that I've got everything correct, uh, and then I start working up like uh generally the way that I like doing it uh is to I don't even worry about a price on anything until I type out all of the work.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna have line items, which is like master bedroom, and then you have under that title is all the work you're gonna be doing in that room.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So you describe you write out everything you were gonna do.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I have it, it looks pretty decent now, and I just reworked some of the stuff, but it's like just a little dash and then like uh prep services for painting, and then under that it's uh like uh patch, caulk, sand, and prime where necessary.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Like if that's a general thing.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then it's apply two coats of ProMar ceiling paint to the ceilings, apply two coats of emerald matte to the walls, apply two coats of emerald urethane trim enamel and semi-gloss to uh the trim and the doors.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: So the you want to be relatively specific with the scope of the work.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: That's that's all that is of do you have products and what your processes and the whole scope.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: And I usually have uh like the sheen.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: I have the sheen, like the product and the sheen that I'm using.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then sometimes you want to give yourself some outs.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times what I've been doing recently is being like, I'll use emerald matte or satin on this surface.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: So like because sometimes they haven't made all the decisions yet, and uh like you just you want to make sure that you're covering your bases and and things are because if you just said like prep, which we know some guys, their estimate was like paint the walls, like it's not they're I've had some doozies because we've hired so many subs over the years, and I had one who did exteriors and it was like an exterior job, probably a$14,000,$15,000 job.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: He sent it to me, said paint house, exterior,$15,000.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: That was it, that was the whole quote.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: But like I knew him and I knew he'd do a good job.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: But if you presented that to a homeowner who was new, he'd be like, get out of here.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean you're they're basically just throwing a price on it.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Um so once I have, and what you're doing with line items is you're just describing the scope of the work.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and part of this is reminding you all the things that you are signing up for if they accept this estimate.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, once I have like master bedroom, master bathroom, master closet, master like or uh like hall bath, uh guest bedroom number one.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you need to like put a title in it to remind you, like, I'll say uh blue guest room, like because there was a blue room, and I can see that in the photos of which one I'm talking about.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because they might it might not be as clear as like a living room, dining room.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: The bedrooms is usually where you need to give yourself a little reminder of like the one with the weird purple wall or like whatever.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: Um so once I have that all typed out, and then in Jobber, you have a you know a box next to that that is the price.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: Now, when I go back and look at that, all I'm looking at for the scope of the work that I have looked at is I'll go back up to the top of the list once I have everything like okay, I've covered all the scope of the work that I went over with this client, and then I uh will look at it, I'll look at the master bedroom, I'm like, okay, how many days is it going to take for us to complete this work?
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're a one-man band, you're gonna have a pretty accurate, or you should be developing a very accurate estimation of how long stuff like that's gonna take you, because you're probably gonna you're gonna have reps of doing it.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have reps, you that's when you're fudging around and just trying to take a guess of how much time do you need to give yourself where you can do a proficient job and not screw yourself over.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh what the feeling that you don't want when you get a bit accepted is oh shit, how am I gonna do this?
39:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's you so that's that's and so what I'll do is like I'll just put and sometimes I'll use a notepad and write down like master bedroom, and then I'll be like, okay, it's gonna be I don't know, a day for the trim or like a day for prep, a day for trim, uh, and then I'll just write tallies like like one, two, I'm like, all right, I think it's like three and a half days, and so I'll call it that, and then I multiply that out by our charge rate.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and right now we're at like 680 bucks a day for a guy because it's like 85 an hour, and your chart your charge rate is not just your hourly that you're trying to make, it's your it includes paint, materials, all that stuff.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: Your overhead and profit, everything baked into one.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: We'll do another episode on charge rate, yeah.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Um uh another time, but this is this is good.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Keep going.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so just whatever your charge rate is, you need like you can break your charge rate down into I find it to be the most helpful to just think of it as my day rate.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's for uh for me, I'm looking for like 680, uh$680.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: So if I've 3.5, then I multiply 3.5 by 680, and then that gives me my number.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I put that number in the box, and then I do that for all those rooms, and then once I look at it, it totals all that up, and you can do this in your if you're doing a Word document, it's the same same.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: So whatever.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Just total that out and then look at that number.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Think about all the work you just looked at, look at that number and be like, can I get that done in that amount of time and get that money?
41:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, is that is does that seem reasonable to me?
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Now I have like I have done I I've I calculated how many estimates we've done, and we're between 1500 to 2,000, because we do between 70 and 90 a year.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some years more, some years less, but if you do it for 20 years, we're probably getting close to 2,000 estimates.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's uh I have quite a few looks at stuff, and there's a little bit of uh vibe associated with it.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know some painters are way more technical in how they quote things out of like looking at window sashes and like they have all these numbers for but it all comes down to is how long does the job take?
42:17
SPEAKER_01: Every software, every square footage, every like I do this many sashes times this, it's all how long does it take?
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how long does it take?
42:25
SPEAKER_00: And then uh when I'm imagining the time, because you're literally projecting yourself forward in time from and you like I'll like mentally walk myself through of like okay, say I'm starting that job, I roll into my truck, how long does it take to get all my gear going?
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Get it set up, talk to the homeowner, talk to the homeowner, make sure I've got all my stuff, the prep out.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Do I have to move anything?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: Do I have to pull a fridge out?
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Is it all the stuff you you and you kind of want to be more pessimistic in the estimate?
42:56
SPEAKER_01: And most I'm more optimistic, you're more pessimistic.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: And most guys, most guys have a uh there's like an ego element of like, dude, I could knock this shit out in like two days.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And like you gotta let that go because you're gonna be doing it.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be or your guys are gonna be doing you and a guy, yeah.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And unless you wanna and you, these are if you're like a diligent hard worker and you're staying on it and you're moving around, like give yourself some margin.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: So, and there's when I look at the price overall, I'm like, okay, where can I add some butter?
43:29
SPEAKER_00: And then I go back and add just more money on into each room that I think would warrant that.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: And like for a bathroom, you can't be like for a tiny bath, like a it's say like a powder room, you can't be like five grand.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's that's not where you're gonna you're gonna be like, I I kind of know there's an upper limit to some of the rooms just based on the size and people's mental expectation of how much that room costs.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: So uh you if it's a big foyer and you're just
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Foyer walls that might not take you but so long.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: But there's they always think that price is gonna be much higher versus a small bathroom, like this bathroom where it's gonna take two and a half days to paint because of all this stuff.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, well, it's tiny.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Why does it take so little?
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so there's certain rooms that are complete time sucks where the that's when you can educate the client a little bit too.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: That helps.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: Where you're like, uh one of the probably the my least favorite room to paint, which Josh is doing right now, is a laundry room.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: They will crush your soul because especially if they haven't pulled the laundry units out, it is such a pain in the ass to get around that stuff.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: It can eat up a guy for like three, four days.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: It's insane.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's why I'm there now.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: We started a larger job with Jeremy and our other guy, Brennan.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, peace, guys.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: They remove the uh dryer out of this laundry room, so I'm going over there.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm doing that right now, and it's much easier.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: I just there's one unit in there, it's on movers, and there's nothing else in the room.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Moving around like a champ.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then other rooms that are similar are kitchens and bathrooms.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: And we do a ton of work behind renovated bathrooms.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: And keep in mind when you're looking at that stuff, is that people have just spent probably like 40 to 80 grand on getting the bathroom redone.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: So, whatever your price is, it's gonna be a relatively small portion of what they do, especially for kitchens, too.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, kitchens as well.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and then that's where the prep's gonna be more.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: There's more cut-ins, you've got to tarp the cabinets off, you gotta mind your P's and Q's, you gotta pull hardware off.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a lot of bits and bobs to a bathroom, like a typical just hall bath is like two to two and a half days for us, and like we're pretty dialed in on those.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: So you just want to be realistic with how long the thing's gonna take you.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: This is for uh interior residential repaint.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: So this is not like an apartment repaint where just flying through.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is like a res like a home someone cares about that they're living in.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: That they're living in.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh so this is not like spray and pray new construction, like it's this is more more typical residential painting of of what that's what we do.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but even those quotes, you're still just trying to figure out how much how long it's gonna take you.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh then if you you know look at the whole job, and then just keep in mind if you have any kind of specialty products or you think it's gonna take more paint than usual, those are things to to think about.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: But if it's a typical setup, you kind of know how much product you're gonna use.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: I never take measurements for paint because I just know this room's gonna be two gallons, that room's gonna be one gallon.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: That's and so like I've got a good vibe for that.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then once I look at the numbers, I kind of step back for a second, I look at the whole estimate, I'm like, I think this is fair.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: I would be happy to get this work, and uh, and then I just I send them an email, and then I pretty much my my standard email that I send out, I delete the auto-generated one.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I need to get rid of that.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: It's terrible.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll just say, hi, insert client, Bob, uh, you know, comma, and then I'll be like, uh, I've attached the estimate for the work that we discussed this morning, or like whenever, yeah, you know, that we discussed at your home.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: Let me know if you have any uh comments or questions or comments, questions or concerns, usually.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then I'll be and sometimes I'll include something like uh something that pertain to something that we talked about, like you know, let me know about timing or just whatever.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: Something that's you're gonna have something you can probably tell them.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't, you can just be like, let me know if you have any questions or comments.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm I'm happy to adjust anything as needed.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then I'll be like, you know, have a great Thursday, and then Jeremy, and then like my little handle at the bottom, which is like got my information, email, and phone number and that kind of stuff.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Push that out, and then just see how it goes.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of my my big process, and uh, and then something that you I've done some really big bids, at least for us recently, and then sometimes you don't hear anything back, and for whatever reason, people don't click accept in the CRM software very much, even if they want to do the job, even if they want to do the job.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times I don't know if we've gotten the work, and then uh I don't care when it's smaller jobs, but like on the bigger ones, you're like, you might just want to give them a call, and then yes, it's it it is good if you send an estimate and you don't hear anything back, yeah, within five to seven days, small or big.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Good general practice is just to follow up with them, hey, just curious for some feedback.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: Because I did that to a job that was like six thousand, seven thousand dollars, and it was a week later, and she's like, Oh yeah, I just haven't looked at it yet, I'll get back to you.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: And she looked at it within the next week.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: So within two weeks, then she accepted like two and a half weeks later, yeah, just because she didn't get to it.
48:41
SPEAKER_01: And so you did that for one of the biggest jobs ever recently.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Yep, and they're like, Oh yeah, sorry, we just didn't get back to you.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, here you go.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: So that and that's that's that is one that Jeremy doesn't do a lot because Jeremy's like, whatever, man.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: Like he's like look like because I generally don't care.
48:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't care.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: It's good to have that attitude, but it's also good if you want to be a good, you know, a good business practice is to follow up.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Because if they one, it shows that you care.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: Two, it's also if they accepted it and they think you're gonna do it, then you're like, Well, you never told me.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Now you want to get it done, and now you want to be on our schedule.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: We're booked for the next two months.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: So it is a great practice within five to seven days of you sending it, just to follow up, to say, hey, how you doing?
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh appreciate some feedback.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Just that's it.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
49:25
SPEAKER_01: Smiley face, winky face.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: So and that's my uh so that that's it.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good summary, man.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty much my my uh you know, my take on doing estimates.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: And then I would just say for guys that are smaller crews or one-man bands where whoever's doing the estimate is actually still on the tools doing the work, try not to overbook yourself on estimates.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: I try and limit mine to three a week uh of actually going and looking at jobs.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh obviously, if you're like, if you really need the work and your acceptance rate's super low and you need to look at a lot of jobs, like that that's not where I'm at right now.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you'll get there eventually where you're you're gonna have to start being like, I need to limit how much I'm looking at.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: You have a max of three bids a week right now.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh so and then that's about how many I can churn out and then stick still, you know, barely get to everything else I need to get to.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then uh and then I would just say too, just be respectful of people's homes.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: We're Josh and I have like a lot of Southern family, and our parents were southern.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: We're always we when we go and work at people's homes, we treat it like we are a guest in their home and we're not gonna like trash their house, particularly when we were younger.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: We just treated it like we're working for one of our parents' friends, yeah, which often was the case.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: We we were early on.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: So we could probably get in the job etiquette in another one, that'd be good.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: But I think that's a good walkthrough of your estimate, and I think it's worth listening to Jeremy specifically because he gets in crazy high acceptance rates at very good prices.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: So, like he you quote more than usually I do, and your acceptance rates is higher than I do.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, Jeremy needs to do the bulk of our bids, yeah, because that makes more sense.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we do much better when Jeremy's in charge of that.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: It also helps to be incredibly handsome and have a cool beard.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have a cool beard does help.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: That does help.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: But uh, yeah, just be friendly, don't be thirsty, and uh, you know, and just make sure you're giving yourself uh enough data to get an accurate estimate.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: And then also, you this is my last caveat, and then we'll we'll uh say good day.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: But you don't have to do the work.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: You can always say no.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: If you look at a job and they it might be they're gonna ask you something that you do not have you don't know how to do outside of the scope of the things that you do.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: This happens to us all the time.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: All the time.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: They're like, Can you do and it's usually something outside of painting?
51:45
SPEAKER_00: It's like some carpentry thing.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Can you paint the furniture?
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Can you do this?
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Can you do that?
51:50
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, Well, uh, I don't early on.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: I'd always say yeah.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but sure.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: But if it's outside, like, you know, plumb a toilet or something, just like you don't need to say yes to everything, you don't need to quote out everything, and you'd be like, you know what, that's really outside of the scope that I do.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: Maybe call my friend Dan, who's good at this kind of thing.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: So, like, there's way you don't have to do everything.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and line items are your friend.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: You can be like, if they're on the fence about something, be like, I'll separate this into a line item, and you can say that's something else that I say as well.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh, I'm like, listen, I'm gonna give it to you.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be segmented by room.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: You can, if you want to do any of it, uh, you can do, you know, you can pick whatever you want.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like a tapas menu.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: You can whatever you want, that's a la carte.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: A la carte.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: A la carte.
52:34
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, you know, if if you decide, I'm always like, you can decide to go with us.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you don't, totally cool.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: I have plenty of work, it's all good.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: And then I it's just like things like that that are casual, that they're like, there's something about telling somebody that you don't need the work where they start to be like, Well, I want you to do that.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: When you tell me, like, I can't do it, like, yeah, we want you to do it.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we want you to do it.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a weird little thing.
52:54
SPEAKER_01: So uh but I think that's a great walkthrough.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: And then I just if you're listening, uh, on the goo crew, the first module we're gonna have out is uh estimating and pricing and charge rates and all that good stuff.
53:05
SPEAKER_01: So if you're at all interested in that, which a lot of guys have uh said they were interested, uh we're gonna have that up in the next uh couple weeks here.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Yep, so check out the goo crew.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: Link is in the description of this episode and all that good stuff.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: And until next time, y'all take it easy.