Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Life after sport. Transitioning from Professional Sports to Financial advice, with Davey Lewis

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Life after sport. Transitioning from Professional Sports to Financial advice, with Davey Lewis · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Davey Lewis.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: He is a financial planner for Timothy James' partner, and he is also an ex-professional rugby player.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So today we talk about rugby.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Not that much because I don't know a great deal about it, but we do talk about the transition from the game into financial planning and why he chose this profession.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about the innate need for financial advice to rugby players and other sporting professionals.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We also talk about training and development and a recent course that he attended called the Know Thyself Academy with Tina Weeks, a former guest on the podcast.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he talks about the benefits of the course, how he really got to know himself, and how that has then allowed him to deliver better, more meaningful financial planning.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Davey, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very well, thank you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks for inviting me on.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm very good, mate.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: As I was just saying to you prior to the um prior to pressing record, I've been in sort of development mode, trying to think about what I should be doing with financial planner life and um the direction I want to take it and ultimately how to monetize it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've led it with marketing now for a good year.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I've got a recruitment company that can kind of fund that development.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've never started a company where it's been marketing-led, marketing-led first before bringing in a guaranteed income.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been quite an interesting process, but it's been a good one.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So at the moment, now I'm thinking I need to monetize it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got a few business plan ideas.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: The whiteboard's looking a complete mental mess, probably inside of my head.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, that's what I've been up to.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: How about yourself?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: What have you been doing?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um sort of taking a break from the bank holiday.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, bank holiday was hectic with two kids.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so had a nice break since I come back.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, we've just been, as I'm sure a lot of people have been doing, um, helping clients with tax learn stuff and um looking after the kids.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, pretty tired from that, going on another walk.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um endless walks, it seems.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, just uh just yeah, family time and work, really.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for for joining me on the podcast today.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's always great, I find, to get somebody on the podcast who is quite young and also as well, who's come from, when I say young, I mean younger than the average aged financial planner.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm I'm taking young, which is 56.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's always it's great to get somebody on who's younger, but it's also great to get somebody who's come from professional sporting background as well.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So your background being um professional rugby for some years, so always keen and interested to understand what that's like to transition from professional sports into um another career, such as financial planning.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, when you see job adverts, especially over the years, sports, you know, sports background desirable.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people always love the idea that something's come someone's coming from a sports background.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always intrigued to see, okay, is it transferable?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's the difference is and all that kind of stuff.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk about that in a little bit of detail.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll tell you what, would be great.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: If could you just give us a kind of overview of um who you are, your sporting background, and what you're doing right now?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh my name's Dave Lewis or Davey Lewis, um, depending on what you prefer.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I used to play play rugby for sort of 12 years, um, played for a few clubs, um, which was great.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then did my exams whilst I was playing, um, was always relatively conscious from a young age that you know rugby wasn't gonna be um around forever and I was gonna have to be something else.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then sort of retired from full-time rugby in 2019, I think now.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um be about two years.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we retired from there, decided to play semi-professional and take up a job as a financial advisor.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so that's about me.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the moment, I'm uh a support consultant, is the um job title.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think that's the only firm that I've seen has that sort of title.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's probably more traditionally known as a trainee financial planner at Timothy James and Partners, who are based in London.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in the earliest early stages of your financial planning career, then aren't you?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think uh it'd be two years this summer.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, just under two years now.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I started there at St.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place practice called Cascad Wealth Management, and then recently transferred from there.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I transferred to Sporting Town, actually.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I recently changed jobs and I moved to Timothy James and Partners in um November last year.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great stuff.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much for that brief overview.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to dig into a little bit more detail.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were playing rugby then, who who who were you playing for?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I started off at Gloucester, um, played there for about six years, um, which was to be honest, it was a brilliant start.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I came into a really young, exciting squad, and the year I came, there was a World Cup.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the two seniors from halves were at the World Cup, um, which was great for me, because it means that I got to play at sort of 18, 19 years old, which was which was awesome.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, had six good years there, met my wife there, so that's um will always be always be good.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's good.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um moved down to to Exeter, which was actually back home for me, really.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a Devon boy in and dad still lives there.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then had four really awesome years there, four really, really good years, made loads of good friends, um, managed to win a couple of trophies, which was which was brilliant.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then sort of my my last two years of my career in fully professional rugby was at Harlequin, so up near up near Twickenham, and that consisted of uh a move to the big city.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, first time me and me and Rach had been out of the Southwest, and um it's it's gone really well, to be fair.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've loved where we lived and happy we moved up.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Fabulous.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So oh wow, a a very decent career then within professional rugby.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's um bit where it was a few years then, that's good.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, how many people were you playing in front of then?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: What's the sort of typical crowd then for a professional rugby game?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think averagely you'd say nine or ten thousand, but obviously you're at your bigger grounds, uh, you can get anything up to 26, I think, is I think it's Leicester's um Leicester's capacity.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that'll probably be the highest in the premiership, but I was fortunate enough to play in like a couple of finals, one at Twickenham, which um which unfortunately we lost, but it was in front of sort of 80,000 people, which was that was pretty cool.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I won't lie.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that's not heavy, that's not every day, unfortunately.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh yeah, very for me it was very much a one-off.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find that to be a lot of pressure playing in front of like 80,000 people?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Before, yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so before when you're not so in the moment, like in the game, and you're thinking, Oh, I'm playing in front of 80,000 people, that's pretty scary.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or um, you know, I've got other mates that think that's the best thing in the world and I can't wait to get out of there.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but during the game, I was always very focused on literally the game.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, going you going back to when I was a kid, dads would often or mum would often say, Oh, did you hear me sort of shout for you when you score to try or something?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd say no, because I I was too you know involved in the game, and it was it was similar when I was um playing in front of a few more people than just mum and dad.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, it was it was it was pretty cool.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I looking back on it, it was there's something pretty awesome to say, yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Does it almost feel a bit of a blur your career?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and I'll we've had this chat before, I think, but um I was probably not guilty, but I'd probably always be thinking ahead rather than just really being present in that moment and just sort of, you know, I I wish now like I could run out at Token again and sort of like look around and be like, this is yeah, this is pretty awesome.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I've still got memories, but yeah, probably parts of it are a bit of a blur, which I wish I could remember more.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine that walking out onto a pitch there with 80,000 people looking at you.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Did you say do you ever score a try in front of that many people?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, I didn't.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't I wasn't one for scoring loads of tries.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can't remember.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I only scored about I don't I don't know actually, not loads.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I think you in terms of like scoring a try or something like that, you do like good moments in games.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I've made like plenty of breaks in games and you hear the crowd sort of um you know, get you know, start getting excited.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was always a bit jealous of like the kickers or to be honest, the wingers, where you know you've got that last-minute kick or you score that last minute try and the crowds go ballistic.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's yeah, I've got like loads of memories like that when I've been part of teams where, especially at Gloucester, actually, we would seem to come back in the last two or three minutes, especially at King's own, which is their home ground, and um yeah, there the crowd would go absolutely mental, which was um which was always pretty cool.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fabulous! Excellent.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So here's a question for you.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: When you were playing professional rugby, did you know what a financial planner was?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Did you understand the career of a financial planner?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can honestly say I did know from a young age what it was.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um from about 21, I think I is about right, I knew what one was.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think I thought I knew what the role entailed.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've definitely learned a lot more about it since actually doing the job.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, before before I was 21, no, no idea what financial planning was, no idea really what a pension was, um, no idea.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I knew what a budget was, but I didn't have one.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, so yeah, like 21 was probably um a combination of events happened um in terms of um I got paid a bit more money, saw that I was getting taxed a lot more, I had a big injury myself.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I also witnessed a couple of mates um have to retire from one through injury and and one just from you know the natural course of events and age taking um taking their toll.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I basically saw out of the two of those, I saw one uh retire through injury, but with lots of choice, with lots of time to decide what they he wanted to do next.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw the other who retired through age, who, for want of a better expression, was kind of scratching around for a job basically.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um through a combination of those events, it was you know, it sort of impressed upon me the need to plan.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: At that time, I wasn't dead set on being a financial planner, it was just it impressed that I needed to do have a plan of some sort.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that sort of trigger you started earning some more money, you started seeing, started realizing you weren't invincible, and started thinking, wow, you know, if my career comes to an end here, what am I actually going to do?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, great.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's typical, isn't it?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because Kieran Bywater came on the podcast and he had a career in professional football.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we were talking a lot about his sort of career, and you know, he was dead set, he was old Trafford and he was playing, and you know, he destined for great, big, great things.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, bam, career comes to an end.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um, hey, it's soul destroying.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was soul destroying for him, and I know he took it quite quite quite badly.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so he's moved into financial planning, and um, but as he's moved into financial planning, and he's realized like the percentage of people that don't make it, even if they get to the professional game, the percentage of people that actually get to the professional game that don't play past a certain amount of time, you know, for a certain amount of time, and that players within certain leagues aren't earning as much money as you think they actually are, and there's a kind of elite amount of people that earn the ridiculous money that we see in the newspapers.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, it's a kind of game where it's a career where anytime you can get taken out of it and you might earn a great deal of money within a very short period of time.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do with that money?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you putting it away?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Are you speaking to a financial planner?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he was saying, like, you know, if anyone's never turned up to the to the to the ground in suits, it was like, oh, the suits are coming, you know, the suits are here.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So he didn't really collect it, you know, and we talked about that and um his style when he goes and speaks to financial plans, uh when he goes and speaks to footballers now, like you know, he's not suited and booted and all that stuff.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, very interesting professional sports and the career of a professional sports star is not as it's not as we, you know, on the in the stands envision it to envision it to be.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not a life of luxury for everybody, is it?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and if you haven't got a good clear financial planning place, then you could leave yourself um in a sticky situation.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that that's right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think I mean I listened to the Kieran by Water podcast, and I think after I actually Googled how many, like percentage-wise of how many people actually make it in professional rugby list-wise.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure it's probably even worse in football because there's so many more people to play it, but it's I think rugby was like 0.0036%, which I found staggering.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought it would be more, and football would be football be even you know less than that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think the word career always uh makes me laugh because I kind of find it's just and I had this conversation with another player, but it's a it's a fantastic start in life if you use it, if you if you know, if you realize it's it's an awesome, awesome time in your life, um, to get paid to play something that you absolutely love, um is amazing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you have the ability to use that time to, you know, not just financially plan, but plan for you know all of all aspects of your life, you know, a second career or setting up a business if if you want to, um, if if you decide to utilise that time.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, careers aren't aren't too long.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think in in rugby, and I don't know what it's like in football, but um in rugby it's about seven years isn't average, and that's from taking a player from 18.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you're thinking if you're 18 and you know you could be finished at 25.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unfortunately, there's some very high-profile players that have you know burst onto the scene, done fantastically well, and then had a career ending injury at sort of 22, 23.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's devastating because not only, I mean, mainly that they've they've probably not achieved everything they wanted to achieve in the game, um, but probably secondly, they were probably had some sort of plans in place that entailed a career that was longer than two or three years.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, financial planning I think is really important with that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think the planning that um uh sort of organizations such as like the Rugby Players Association in rugby, and I think the the PFA or LAPS um I know do a lot of work in this in football.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the planning they do with around career and just developing, you know, yourself as a person outside of the sport is is really important to do it, and it's important.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: I would urge anyone to do it as soon as you can.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I wish I thought I was actually pretty well planned in terms of career from from moving um outside of rugby.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the one thing looking back on my career, I wish that I had more urgency in in preparing for it earlier.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so your advice to somebody who's playing professional rugby right now is to actually think about the career after rugby.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think so, and for many reasons, not just for you know um having an option.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: The the reasons why I think it's great is is one, I think it gives you options.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: You don't then have to just dive into the first thing.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Two, if you start early, you'll discount a lot of things, you know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you just think because a lot of I know a lot of players will say, I'm not sure what I want to do.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you can probably try a few things and discount a few things that you you know you you don't you don't enjoy doing, um which will help.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then when it does come to the you know the eventual moment where you you're not a sports person anymore, um you're going into a role that you know you know you that you enjoy, that you hopefully will get some fulfillment out of that you you know feel valued in, which goes a long way to help you sort of change into a different career from a well-being perspective, I guess, more than anything.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, feeling good about yourself is is quite important.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're learning about it quite a lot at the moment, I guess, with COVID.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think yeah, that the main things are do it as early as possible, um, because you never know, you never know when it's gonna end.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't say that from a negative point of view, because I think there's plenty of negative press around athletes transitioning.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I say it from a positive point of view, hopefully, that if you actually take the time to prepare yourself, anything's possible.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, beyond sport, I think there's you know, a bit of chat, I'd say, or a general message around you've got it really good at the moment.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not going to be as good after football, rugby, tennis, golf, athletics, whatever it may be.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's not true.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it doesn't have to be true.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but it does take you to take the onus and prepare.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your life doesn't end just because your sporting career ends.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can do something else.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Your sporting sporting career doesn't define you, you know.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, there are different stages within your life that you can move into.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: When you were playing rugby, was it quite were you did you find it quite a worry that was it going to come to an end next season?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I did when I had kids, to be honest.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I was relatively lucky that, well not lucky, I was doing a doing a ride that I would play quite a lot every year, I think on average, say like 20 games a year.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always relatively confident um that even if, although it would have, you know, I didn't want to move from some of the clubs, um, if it did happen, I would get some sort of offer so you know the dream could carry on almost.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, when I've got kids, it definitely I think just the extra responsibility, and you know, all fathers and mothers would would understand that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it dawned on me then like it's oh, you know, it's not just me that you know I need to provide for, and I'm lucky that the race works as well.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, that that definitely worried me a little bit.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then in in reality, when I look back on it, I was worried for a lot longer than just when I had kids.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: It just really hit home then.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's where I go back to like if I had planned and I had a plan B in place, like one of my probably biggest risk is I don't have a uni degree.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's probably just the status thing because I know that uni degrees don't automatically mean that you you know you get a job after or also you get a job from it.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I think just having something in my back pocket that's like, oh, I've got it there just in case, that would have made me feel a lot um safer, probably.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of avoided.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a feeling of security.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's just security instinct, isn't it?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: That feeling of, okay, well, at least I've got a degree.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: If I do leave, then I can go and get another job.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So in the back, you've got that in your back pocket.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas what you've thinking to yourself is I'm playing rugby, what am I gonna do after that?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what can I do after rugby?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Christ gonna go from a rugby pitch to doing what work in a factory.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all think like that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think like that as a business owner, like you know, I you know, I run a recruitment agency, have done for the last 13, 14 years.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to lie.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I think I don't want to do this anymore, you know, and I think, God, what could I do?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Could I do something else?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get this feeling come over me.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 40 next year, and I'm thinking, like, well, what can I do at four?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got 14 years in recruitment, I must just be stuck in recruitment.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then you forget you've got a multitude of skills that you've learned.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it all came, and we all had this feeling over COVID, you know, because nothing was secure.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm blessed, mate, that my business is still here.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed for the people that are in it that have made it work.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm really, really very grateful for some of the guys who work for me because they work incredibly hard and kept this business afloat uh during that period.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that feeling of like, oh shit, what am I going to do next?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think we all have that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's just your kind of classic fear of not feeling good enough or um capable enough to step into something where actually, as a rugby player, you've got insane skills, you know, insane skills, insane experience.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'd like to talk about some of that really, you know, moving from the game of rugby into the pro into a professional um position such as financial planning.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it true?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are there tr transferable skills from playing rugby into financial planning?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think they're probably the ones that get written on a CV very often.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um yeah, I think so.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: From rugby players, I think we're we're quite social.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean that from like a sitting us down the pub sort of thing.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just mean that from a, or they when we're allowed, we probably would do that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I mean is that rugby players um are quite often asked to go to sponsored events.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: um after matches um in the week.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they're quite used to walking into a group of people they don't know and starting a conversation.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know what I've learned from from actually doing the job full time is that um all the technical skills that are obviously you actually need them and um are brilliant.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can't speak to someone or you can't open a conversation or you can't you know actively listen to someone you're going to struggle a little bit.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's probably the main thing is is the ability to communicate you know relatively well.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing is and it was interesting to hear what you just said there about your your own team I think players that come from or athletes that come from team sports understand the value of a team understand the value of you know everyone's sorry everyone's value within it and and their role they play.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that we're probably you know without even knowing it relatively good at working in that sort of environment where it's not just one person that everything relies on you need to you know ask delegate or certain people do certain roles um that's that's pretty key.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Then you've got your your cliches that are true that will get talked about about being driven and um you know wanting to be the best and you know I'm definitely guilty of that sometime.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Although at the same time like what what would be the best in financial planning?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know how there's no sort of prize at the end of the year for the you know oh sorry there is a few prizes but how do you say you know which is the best person it's um it's objective isn't it um but I think from from my point of you know I speak about myself I think athletes will want to develop all the time they're they're not happy or they won't they'll feel itchy or uncomfortable just if they feel they're stood still they want to know that they're um getting better and it's you know that marginal gains from from the Sky Sports team um they understand the value in that they I think you know that they know that it takes time um they're not always the most patient because you know they're used to sort of especially sort of in the football and rugby environments they're used to results every week so I think that's someone something that if a a younger athlete's listening to this I think just be aware of that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's um a tricky thing to fall into because you know you're you're expecting or you're used to having a Saturday result reviewing it getting better and cracking on again the next week whereas um what I found in this week for all professions I expect is that the results are slightly longer or you have to sustain your um training or you know your period of um exertion for longer and you won't know if it's a good or a positive or a next outcome for maybe months which is you know requires a lot of patience and it's hard to understand at the time of of retiring probably that's a really good point that kind of it's not in it's not so much instant I suppose part partly instant gratification.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but it's also instant feedback.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say instant like you say like at the end of the work, you know the end of the week for you is like you know you have a big game and then there's a and then there was a you know you either win or you lose then you review what you do then you're back on the training field and you're out playing again and you're trying to better improve yourself all the time.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you're absolutely right in the professional world.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can speak very much so of like recruitment for example you know everything's everything's a long game you know you might occasionally get some short little wins come off but it takes time you know to to place somebody in recruitment and it's the same for financial planning.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: In most professionals professional services you you know it takes time to build the client relationship up.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and you might not do a deal with them in week one and you might not get any feedback from them.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time you're kind of like finding your way thinking am I doing this right?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not doing it right?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kind of always looking for almost some sign to say that you're doing okay.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah I'd agree.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be tricky I can understand how that would be tricky if someone has had a pat on the back every time they've done like rugby or something or football like you know you're doing well because you're being told it was you know your stats are good or it's similar I suppose in in the professional services but it's it's in a it's in a different way.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess again it's not although you have high pressure it's a different level of pressure when it comes to football or rugby as it does to to a to to to a role such as financial planning.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So okay great.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you were playing rugby brilliant and you moved into financial planning.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now how did you actually get into the profession financial planning?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So basically my last contract I was 30 I think um and I had a a plus one in my contract and basically um the club cancelled it and I looked around and we we didn't want to move and um I was qualified by stage.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a few it was more like a family decision that you know I I had the ability to take a job um in London I'm using my qualifications which means that we don't have to move um and I had got that job just by applying literally like googling financial advice jobs I probably should have come on recruit UK definitely should have um but yeah I just I just googled it and um yeah applied for a few and and I was successful obviously with with Castell um and it was literally uh Friday I can't remember when it was but at the end of May one you know and on Friday in May I was training um probably having barbecue or something after training and then on the Monday I walked in in a suit to London.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wow yeah so it was it was and that was my choice to be fair I was very much um I think I was I was injured at the end of the season so I hadn't played for a couple of months so I I felt rested um I basically just done beach weights for for two months um and just felt like I wanted to crack on really um so yeah I walked in on first of June or near enough the first of June um into yeah into bank which was it's one that's exciting at the time like I I was nervous I I was nervous and um everything beforehand as anyone would be before like a big change but I was also excited to start something new um finally put into practice some of the you know some of the things that I'd learned from from studying really did you um okay interesting that you went online found a job and you got in there now obviously your background in professional sports is always a uh you know advantageous I find especially within the financial services it absolutely did you say you did your qualifications when did you do your qualifications then so you had your qualifications under your belt already your level four or some of them what where were you in no yeah I'd had all I had button also I got the level four so like I said pre um earlier I started doing so I took an interest in financial planning at around 21 yeah and um the RPA the rugby players association the the rep sat down to me and just sort of said what are you interested in doing after rugby and I said I don't really know and he just said well what are you interested in and I sort of reading a lot around money and newspapers and what I used to love doing is I used to love um I think it was the Sunday Times but they used to have a section in it on a on a Sunday um and it would say like an interview with you Sam and it would be like Sam what do you do with your money?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you organise your personal finances?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all I used to love reading um but from that I then you know read a bit more and learned a bit more about you know ISIS or all that sort of stuff um got put in touch with Bruin Dolphin um uh a BDM there who basically I did loads of work experience with and he sort of said look if you want to be a financial planner or financial advisor these are your exams you need to do so I knew that I need to do my ROs at least um and I basically ticked off one or two every year um and yeah so I was qualified by the time I retired so um yeah I think I think I need to do my RO6 I think by the time Quinn has told me that I wasn't going to be staying around there so got RO6 done and yeah was was ready to go basically well I thought ready to go um as as uh as we mentioned previously there's a lot more to the job than just the technical side of it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely so okay so you obviously rugby background you had your level four qualifications now let me ask you this question.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: You've obviously been in the profession now for a couple of years yeah do you think knowing what you know now it's beneficial to have your level four qualifications going into you know if someone's listening to this now right and this is the thing a lot of a lot of young a lot a lot of people without experience at financial planners come to me and say well they're crying out for financial planners I'm part qualified I want a financial planning role why can't I be a financial planner now or I've got my level four qualification now I want to be a financial planner why won't anybody take me on what's your experience then knowing over the last two years working within financial planning why do you think it is so difficult for somebody with a level four qualification to get the job straight away um it's a good question obviously um the thing is is that there there are we obviously know that there's firms out there that that do take you know new recruits um straight off level four I think in terms of why it's why it's difficult is because there's a lot more to the job than just getting those exams and those exams are really um important to have because you've got to have the technical knowledge um and I think at some stage it will maybe move up to level six.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it goes back to what we talked about a little bit earlier about the other skills the the soft skills but also client acquisition you know where are you going to get clients from like if you I mean I'm sure any any firm whether you're employed or self-employed will want you to go and you know get some clients um in the cast and well um and it's you know so you've got communication you've got client acquisition you've got how to actually run your diary and and the process from taking a new client to you know to onboarding them and then that ongoing process for me um what I struggled with and I think someone that's maybe been in the industry before wouldn't is um was all the admin it was um when I first went to St.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: James's place the admin involved in um you know like I said taking the client on that process was overwhelming um and especially my first six weeks I didn't I'd done work experience but obviously I'd probably been um shielded from that that aspect from it um but that's something to take into account because you know you're not just out seeing clients all the time you're not you know that's the great part of the job and it's it's fantastic and that was one of the attractions to me but there is an admin side to it um as well um which you know you've got to be very good at too um so in terms of what I would say is I think I think getting level four is brilliant because it shows that you've got a bit of initiative and especially if you've self-funded it as well it shows that you're serious about wanting to become a financial planner.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in terms of why they're not getting roles I would I would ask maybe what is it about being a financial advisor that they really want out of it and do they think that they would be in a better position to be a financial advisor if they go in and say can I just you know come in and learn from you can I be a paraplan or can I be a training advisor?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know I think I I mean I I'm not one for saying like you know you need to be a certain age or you need to have a certain experience to to be a really good financial advisor.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know loads of financial advisors that are very young that are really good, really great firms.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not an age thing um it's more just having that experience of the whole job rather than just doing your exams I'd say okay cool that's a good answer.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you went in at St James's place as a financial planner or did you go in as an administrator or a power planner?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: What was your entry into the profession?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I went in as a financial advisor um yeah so straight in as a financial advisor um which yeah was was good like I've learned I've learned a lot from that um I think I've learned a lot around the business skills um like I said how to definite the admin side of it um how to keep organized and and everything that goes involved in that um but again if I probably had my time again like I said to you earlier I would have probably studied more urgency earlier in my rugby career probably done a little bit more um networking and and work experience um and maybe then given myself a bit more of a choice of roles to go into um because I think my my main focus at the moment is I'm still on that journey to get to where I want to be in terms of all knowledge not just technical um and if you're an advisor you've probably got some sort of expectations of um bringing in business and and looking up not not not every role um but but a lot do um and looking back I probably didn't want that in in the early stage of my career um which is yeah one of the reasons why I moved.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay so okay well that's a really good point because you know St.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place notoriously is about you know generating business.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know there's a lot of people I've spoken to from St James James's place and when they go in there at entry level you know there there's a there's whip you know they're the whip is cracking like you know get some business on board they'll get you through the academy get you in there writing business getting clients and and that's kind of their model and they're you know they're all about targets and everything.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And listen that's not a problem I'm not here to to translate that at all.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting because if you're not used to that and you're going in to learn a learn the role of a financial advisor and what they do and you've got all the administration and compliance and everything that you've got to get right I mean it's a huge pressure upon you to do it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And unless you've got an administrator or a power planner that's supporting you, it's going to be tough, isn't it?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be working long hours and you're gonna be kind of like because I guess in as well what one piece of paper works the same is it it's always kind of different you know and you know you're having to make sure you're doing everything right but there's so many different things to do.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I can imagine it can be incredibly overwhelming within the first year of of doing it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're going straight in as a financial planner even more pressure upon you if you've then just you know expected to write business on top of all that work as well.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah there is I think look looking back it was probably um my mistake almost for not knowing myself enough um to know that I'd want to be um developing myself as a financial planner that's what I love doing is was for myself and um you know obviously you get a couple of people asking you in the change rooms etc um yeah I I loved basically the planning part um you know I didn't I wasn't one I wasn't really aware of everything else that goes with it you know I just thought that that was that's what you did um and um that's what I loved doing and yeah that's probably it's my mistake to to not looking you know further into other other options really um but like I said I learned a lot from it and um yeah I definitely benefited from from the experience.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah I think in like looking back if I was to advise myself again it would be you know what do you really want out of it and and like you said there was people that started at the same time as me um with slightly more experience but like a similar level um that have done really well and you know they that's they're they're really happy there it was just for me personally I want to be the best sort of financial panel I can I can be um for my clients and um to do that I felt like I needed a bit more experience maybe needed um a few more years on my bell but also just you know being mentored and stuff and not having that pressure being out being afforded the time to you know learn different aspects.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: That makes total sense yeah to know what it is you're actually doing um and not just throwing yourself in the deep end and sink or swim attitude because at the end of the day you are dealing with people's money and there's a you can have all the confidence in the world and bravado or whatever but if you you don't want to be a blagger do you the last thing you want to do is blag somebody just because you're under pressure to to achieve targets or bring business in.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think also as well your transferable skills as you mentioned earlier from rugby of you know teamwork and resilience and ambition and all those things, you know, hard work, grafter, you know, all those things are fantastic and transferable.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing you picked out there as well is just those soft skills are the things that you might well you know if you went and worked over in a bank for four years or something like that or you worked in a mortgage role or a sales role anything really where you're client facing and you're you're you're sort of building the confidence and understanding of how to build rapport and ask fact-finding questions, open questions and you know understanding the relationship process like think even things like valuable things such as sales technique you know techniques you know um I think those are the things that sometimes if you jump catapult yourself into the role of a financial planner too quickly you you haven't had the time to learn that you know and it's a big part of the job isn't it yeah yeah it is um I just want to go back and say um I wasn't a blagger luck I I um I basically specialized in in sports people okay because obviously I have a lot of experience within that um but then when the this sort of um when sort of you know the firm I was in was mainly they were mainly based around city people um so if I ever came across one of those sometimes it would be fine um but you know other times I was just like oh this isn't really an area that I'm an expert in if that make um sort of makes sense um and that's where I thought do you know what there's so much there's so many areas in financial planning um and you can't be an expert in all of them I'm not saying that um but also I was just thinking you know I want to be somewhere where the next time that sort of situation comes up I'm actually confident and I you know I know my stuff and um I can sit down in front of someone say yeah I'm I think you what you should do is this and um yeah I'm I'm the sort of right person for you.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah sorry so I wasn't a blagger at all yeah not not not sort of not sort of suggesting you are I just think sometimes there's a as you mentioned there it's that confidence inside you that you can can deliver but at the same time I think people can almost pretend that they can deliver when they can't and you're actually being more honest with yourself by saying that at that stage in your career you were you know you wanted to work with those types of clients but you didn't have the experience to do it.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you wanted to get more experience more mentorship more training and development so eventually you can start working with that wider audience.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: But did you find you mentioned there about working with sports um I suppose sports sports people yeah people from a sporting background and um I hear that a lot I hear financial planners that like to to operate within that sort of niche environment and and that's about picking your niche isn't it you know I had somebody on the podcast last week and um he his his niche is actually like scaffolders builders plumbers he calls it the grafters and that's his market the grafting market.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Never heard of financial planner working in that market.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: You always hear like oh I work with accountants and solicitors and all that kind of stuff and high net worth clients he works at grafters.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know he's got this he's got a uh a guy one of the top hairdressers up in um the Northeast and he works with him and he generates loads of leads for him you can imagine hairdressers talk yeah he gives loads of free advice to this guy talks about what he's doing with his money and all of that and this guy's just telling everyone he sits down and referring referring loads of people across and um the people's hairy cuts are usually people that are quite well known quite wealthy whether they're sports background or off the TV or something like that as well.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of thing and he loves loves working with grafters and and helping like families you know because he said to me he said if I wasn't doing that I'd be up on a scaffold sound if I wasn't doing financial planning I'd be up on up doing some scaffolding you know so um I like that and I think picking a niche sometimes within financial planning sets you up to kind of be in the environment and around the people that you want to spend time with you enjoy talking other about other things outside of planning as well because then you're relatable.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was keen to understand did you know does your background in sport did it help you develop new business opportunities as a financial planner within the sporting professions?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah massively um to be honest um I think my my my first few clients were all rugby players um and it I think it what helped is that they would see me studying so and they knew exactly what I was doing um studying for um and then when it came to the time I was actually doing it as a job you know like like you said before like a lot of players don't have advice and when I've you know been interchanging with them or you know just have that shared experience of being a sportsman knowing as they like to say what the crack is and and how how it how it works and and and also probably their their sort of fears around what lies beyond it.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: You are very relatable you sort of have that instant trust which is something that you know all planners and advisors are always looking to build with their clients.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah there was a Majority of my clients were supporting.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's not to boast, that's just who I was bet best working with, really.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think at the time, and and yeah, it works works very well.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, you know, you you go there and you have these conversations, and it's not all just about it's you know, it's about their life, really.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really about their money, their money just comes as a um as a secondary um element to it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're comfortable having those conversations and you you're very relatable and you've got a lot in common, those conversations generally go better um, you know, than than if you don't.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's it kind of it works quite nicely.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I don't think I really went after them like you know, hugely hard.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, the first couple came to me, then got a few referrals, etc.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: from that.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's been just like a nice steady growth um from that side of it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that I'm very fortunate to have the background I do have, um, because like I said, a lot of people have sorry, a lot of people in that in that environment will have that instant trust of you because you've been there and done it, you you've been in their shoes.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, you're probably in a good place to advise.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're not, you know, not writing it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fab.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: So have you ever used your background in rugby to your advantage when it comes to marketing yourself, say on social media, for example?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little bit.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: I um I did a little bit of social media marketing probably about oh a bit about a year ago now.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it would mainly be around um using like sporting terms or things like that um in marketing.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think it, yeah, like you said, if you've got a niche, um, then you've got to just direct that message to that group of or that category of people, that group of people, and you've got to almost talk in their language.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: So similarly to sort of Kieran not turning up to a football club in a suit, I'm not gonna talk, I mean, I wouldn't do it anyway, but I'm not gonna sort of use a load of financial jargon to talk about financial planning.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would put it in their language, um, or all language that you know is more relatable that they'll understand, like, you know, at the click of a button rather than sort of maybe having to go away, Google it or ask me what they mean.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I have used my sporting background in in social media a little bit.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't used social media too much um recently.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I'm not afraid to use it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think from my perspective now, like why wouldn't I?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's um, you know, it would make sense.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, those are the sorts of people that I, you know, really enjoy working with, that I want to work with, that I'm very good at working with.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so why wouldn't I I use my backgrounds, you know, to sort of speak to those people?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you kind of worry that if you almost pigeon your hole yourself into a market, let's say, or a niche, that that's you're setting yourself up for life as being that person?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Does that concern you or worry you uh doing that?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Then you get that feeling of missing out, then don't you really?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, do you know what?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I did think that, or I did worry about that, but then I aim my marketing, well, I would aim my marketing at that category, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't work with someone else that I enjoy getting on with.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's um and it's yeah, you you if you if you market to everyone, then you you kind of, in my opinion, look like a generalist, and and you know, it's it's difficult then to to really be an expert in in everything.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you market to a certain group, um then you you know you can look like an expert in in that area, and and obviously if if you actually are authentic with that, then that that helps massively too.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't work with someone that's not from a sporting background or um that I would ever feel you know that like I'll pigeonhole myself because I think you know we've talked about this before, but um feeling like you pigeonholed yourself is probably just a story that you've maybe told yourself um isn't actually the reality.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, like you've asked me there, no, I mean sorry, yes, I was worried, but no, I you know, I don't feel like I've pigeonhole myself.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's just who I market to.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know where I would choose to spend my time and effort um sort of getting my message across.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: The good thing as well is that we it's like almost piggyback marketing as well, because if you you're piggybacking off of your background, your sports sporting background, okay, and you're using that as a means to be able to elevate yourself above the noise.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you create content that's then talking about your sporting background or relating to sport, okay, that's an area of your expertise and something you can talk about.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's relatable because you are also a professional rugby player.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now that can be positioned to professional rugby players because you A empathize with their situations, you can understand their fears, their future worries, their desires, what they want, what they don't want, what they're going through basically.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a whole area that you can do that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, you're also talking about sport.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: And people love sport, don't they?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people love sport.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's a sportsman, you know, who's a financial planner, then a guy who's interested in sport would love to have a financial planner as a sportsman, you know.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ex-rugby.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some people love talking rugby, don't they?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they love talking rugby, they love talking football.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're a foot, you should be a fellow.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my mate's uh my financial advisor as a ex-professional rugby player.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it stuff gets banded around.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there's it's use you've got to use it, haven't you, to your advantage?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, you know, I can imagine also it it's like you you and you're now a financial advisor, aren't you?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're now a financial advisor.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you've moved on from your career from professional rugby.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is there an element of you that doesn't want to kind of use that past uh experience and you want to like almost start afresh and I'm a financial planner?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you or do you use it and use it to your advantage to get yourself out there?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I want to be an expert as a financial planner just for myself.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, it doesn't matter what what anyone else thinks.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the reality is, and I saw an article recently, and I can't remember um who it was, but there was a I think it was some fund manager for someone, and the article was ex-professional rugby player moves from so and so to so and so.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember who it was.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I clicked on it because I was like, oh, he's that, and it was some guy that was like 50 or something like that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought then I was like, okay, he's still an ex-professional rugby player at 50, like this potentially will never leave me.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um the reality is is I was a professional rugby player, I am a financial planner.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think the two need to be separated.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if people want to talk, you know, say he's an ex-professional rugby player, or I mean, it'd be lovely for someone to say he's just a really, really good financial planner, go and have a chat with him.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's also an ex-professional rugby player.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: That would be awesome.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, that's their conversation.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, it's not, I can't control that.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: What I can control is um, you know, how I look after clients, um developing my knowledge, um, making sure that basically everyone's catered for and hopefully they're just doing a good job for them all around.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you're at St.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: James's place, okay.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what I love is that you know, your first, I spent this guy on a podcast recently, your first job doesn't define you in financial planning.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people kind of like think, oh, my first job, that's gonna be, you know, this is the one that you know, I'm gonna be a financial planner or whatever it might well be.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't, they but they have two, three, four jobs before they establish what they're where they're where they should be, you know, and some people stick in a role for five years and then become a financial planner with the same company.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your first role doesn't define you, it's just part of the journey to where you're getting.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you left St.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: James's place.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't the role for you.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fine, not a problem.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, where did you go?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to Timothy James and Partners.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they're uh an independent firm based in London again.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've just moved officers actually to Piccadilly.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I was contacted about a role there that was, like I said before, um support consultant, which is basically you're a financial advisor, but you're being mentored by a couple of the very senior advisors.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the reason it attracted me was because they basically one work on um mainly uh sort of getting business from uh professional connections, but also their clients, so there's no no other types of marketing.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also the types of clients they look after are sports, media, entertainment, music clients.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um for me, obviously the sports was a huge tick.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, I just felt more comfortable with them.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, they've got again to they're not pitching hole in themselves because they look after, you know, lawyers, and many of those clients have their own businesses and you know, other sort of executives in the city, but um, you know, they do have a lot of those types of clients, um, as well as the fact that, yeah, like I said, the mentorship.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's no pressure on me other to other than to invest in myself, basically, for the first sort of 12 to 18 months, which is what I wanted.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um, yes, it's gone really well so far, really enjoyed it.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, talk to me a little bit about then.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is what does mentor what is good mentorship look like in financial planning?
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um in at TJP, um it basically means that I go into all the client meetings um with the advisor, take part to the meeting, um, and that will develop as as basically fit and and as I feel comfortable.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then I sort of help with the the follow-ups, the the cash flow planning, um, any sort of action points, liaising with clients, liaising with a team.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, um that's what it looks like a sort of situation.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you just get a like we said earlier, you you're getting a um a well-rounded experience of the whole process.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully, is um TJ Player quite a social company.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously everyone's been a bit restricted with that um for COVID.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there's a few events going on, and um they sort of help you with introducing you to their own contacts, whether that be agents or accountants, solicitors, and obviously helping you develop your own at the same time.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you're now working in more of a referral from a higher level business, aren't you?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's I mean it's it's all personal relationships, it's um it's all referral.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's no, like I said, there's no other types of marketing.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's definitely more um sort of natural for me to do that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you yeah, I was gonna say, do you find it you do you find it more natural and more comfortable in that?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Did you sort of feel that in the comparison between the two roles?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: One was more sort of like, I don't know, cold, more cold calling, more sort of cold-faced business development, whereas this is more relationship-based.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think I don't know whether it was cold, but like I said, there's no you get you get given time to sort of develop your relationships.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we all know that you know, getting a referral from you know, trusted um partner or a friend or something like that goes a long way to helping you um, you know, actually onboard that client.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's no what I like is that there's no rush, and and they also help you along the way.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not you're not just expected to go out there and all of a sudden have you know accountants, solicitors, agents knocking on your door.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you've got that time to sort of speak to people and um just you know be interested in what their business is and seeing how maybe you can help them firstly without you know asking for something in return or expecting something in return.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing I've talked to a lot of financial planners about is training and development.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I get a few trainers and developers uh on the podcast I've spoken to.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people now training out coaching, etc.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what training recently or coaching have you had recently that's made a really, really big impact on your career?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so as as we chat about, I've uh gone through the Know Thyself Coaching Academy, so the um certificate in relational financial planning um with Tina Weeks and Julian, which has been brilliant, um to be honest.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um definitely would recommend it to anyone looking to either get into coaching or just sort of enhance their own financial planning proposition, to be honest.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's been been really good, very uh enlightening, definitely increased my self-awareness.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, looking forward to continuing to sort of put it into action with clients.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just give us a kind of, you know, I'm I'm intrigued.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've sat in on one of their sort of taste the sessions, but it's very much a taster, you know, it's very much a taster.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: So just give us a kind of overview, really.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you say self-awareness, and the term know yourself, know thyself is about getting to know yourself, isn't it?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: How can you get to, you know, how can you help a client if you can't, if you don't know yourself, I can imagine.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: So just give us an overview.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: What what what what is it?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what did you learn?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why why is it?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that why is it added value to your career?
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the the big thing, like the the big message is is how your emotions basically affect your behaviour.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the bit in between is how emotions then affect your thoughts, which then affect your behaviour.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I mean, like, as an example, there's there's stories that I've told myself for years now, which I never actually realised probably the impact of them.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and those stories are sometimes helpful, and they're they're sometimes you know a bit unhelpful.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, when I was playing rugby, and I'm sure that a lot of athletes will be like this, but you know, I used to tell myself, oh, I'm not good enough.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to, you know, I need to train train harder.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, it's I think it's a boxer set it or someone, you know, train as if you're number two, but then play as if you're number one, it's that sort of mentality, which is I think brilliant in a in a sporting context that keeps you humble, keeps you working hard, etc.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: But then if that creeps over into other parts of your life, then that's when maybe a few challenges or issues may arise.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, like even coming onto this podcast before I'm thinking, oh, why is Sam wanting to have a chat with me?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of thing.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which, you know, isn't helpful to be having those thoughts, but at least like now, um, all I can say from it is now is that I have those thoughts and then I can actually deal with it there and then because I can write it down, I can sort of think it through.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I guess for me, the biggest thing from it is um obviously coaching, having a coach is is still really, really important for me, but I can almost um have a sort of write it out and work things out in my head.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when something, when an event happens and I have an emotion about it, that emotion will trigger a thought, and it's not always true and it's not always helpful.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's you know, just being able to sort of almost step back and think, okay, that happened.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like this, this is what I thought.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Are my thoughts actually true or are they false?
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or actually, do I just not know?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's you know, the sorts of things where um you'll be worrying about something, maybe.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like public speaking is a big one, isn't it?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and like I remember having at my wedding speech, I panicked for like months over having a chat with, or sorry, having a speech prepared and chatting um about it basically, and um, you know, you're catastrophizing that's something that's not happened.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's you know, it's been able to have that's just one example, but it's been able to sort of realize that you're doing it, then sort of interrogate the thoughts behind it, um, and yeah, and then sort of put in a plan of action in place to sort of alleviate those sort of emotions, basically.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you sort of um do you write, say, for example, if it it within the process, does it teach you to write that?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go through like a feeling and an emotion comes in and it's quite overpowering, yeah.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it might affect your social instincts, how you've how you're perceived by others, for example.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're all bent out of shape, you're getting all emotional as it happens.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you then have you learnt a process to go, ah, okay, that's me being emotional.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's my instinct of self, for example, my social instincts being affected, like it's affecting my self-esteem.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's also making me feel less than that, that might affect my security instincts, you know, my financial security or whatever.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden you're breaking it down and going, ah, and then you're thinking, it's a thought.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a thought that's coming into my head.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not real.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, a friend of mine told me about false evidence appearing real.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, what we tend to think in our head is happening is false.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's false, false evidence appearing real, acronym for fear.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, we're just being fearful of a situation.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember he told me that.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I get there in that state of mind, I think to myself, is this false evidence appearing real?
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's never usually because it's not happening to you right now, is it?
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it's kind of this perception of what might go wrong in the future, and I suppose that's anxiety, isn't it?
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like that feeling of being anxious about the future, something's going to happen in the future.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: That person might not like me, or imposter syndrome.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I why am I on the podcast?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm, you know, why does he want to talk to me?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of thing, you know?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um those skills are incredible.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I only really started to learn about mindfulness over the last few years because I was a bag of fear in my head or resentment.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I was always I was pissed off at people or things that go my way or uh whatever, you know, and it was always somebody else's thought, thought, you know.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and another part of me was always in fear.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was always worried what people thought of me.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was constantly worried what people thought of me.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was constantly thinking my business was going to go under, constantly thinking people are going to leave my company or or whatever.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a horrible state to be in.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you get to understand your emotions and the behaviors associated with it, you become a lot more calmer.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that was mindfulness.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I started learning mindfulness, and it's just hugely helped me as a professional, as a father, and just as a person in general.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a lot happier, a lot grind more grounded.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I realised why I did the certain things that I did.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just um it's it's awareness, isn't it?
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we live in this age where we are surrounded by things that distract us.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're surrounded by feeling less than, whether it's through social media or TV or people driving around in really amazing cars, yet they've got them on finance, you know.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: We do all these things and it kind of makes us feel shit.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um less than, like we're not good enough, when in reality, most people are running around in debt and fear and worries and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when you stop and you pause and you just step back, you think it's all just not, it's just it's just thoughts.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just thoughts in your head.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, the leaning into it works well, doesn't it?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: When something comes in, it's like, well, don't be scared by it.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, what is it?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I feeling that way?
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then you lean into it, and then it kind of just dissipates, doesn't it?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it goes.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: And imagine being able to do that for a client.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if they come in with a big fear of what whatever, whatever it may be, just have being able to sort of sit there and comfortably have that conversation with a client, help them work it through, and then sort of come up with a plan of action that is gonna, you know, help alleviate whatever they're worried about.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: But um, and that that's kind of the basis of it is I think we in the in the know thyself course, you you definitely um it's pure, I'd say more pure coaching.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it and like as the name suggests, you're working on yourself, and you know, some of the stories you tell yourself, and mine is generally that I'm not good enough.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's not everyone's.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you know, towards the later stage, you sort of start realizing how you can actually apply this to you know your clients' lives and and in your clients and hopefully they can benefit from it because obviously, as as most of your listeners will know, you know, you're planning or helping design someone's life exactly how they want, you know, and how they enjoy life and what you know aligned with what they value.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously the money and stuff comes to support that.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but obviously you've got to get that life part of it first.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can be comfortable having these sorts of conversations with clients, then they're going to benefit from the planning and also be a lot more motivated to then do the boring bits about maybe investing a few um a bit of money every month or putting that protection policy in place because you know that this will you know help you in in your own life goals, basically.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: I like it, mate.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: I and and I speak to a lot of financial plans and have been over the years, and um, I'm really liking the way financial planning is moving more into like a well-being proposition.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that coaching um is key and getting people to kind of unblock their energy, essentially.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody has like a negative energy block around something.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, a story we tell ourselves, and when we let it go, that's when you're like, oh wow, it's gone.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's gone.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get and we carry these borders with us throughout life, you know.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's not until someone challenges you on it and gets you thinking.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned there about the voicing, you know, that telling yourself you're not good enough.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had that for a long time.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: Long, long, long, long time.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: And until I it was only recently that I explored the actual.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Tone of that voice.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when I stopped and I was like my I was meditating and I was thinking more who is it that's talking to me?
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when you actually um tune into the the the the tone of the voice, it was very negative and very aggressive and very fearful.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, wow, I've been that's the voice that's been talking to me all my life.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I say voice, the internal kind of dialogue.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, and I really looked at that and then I started changing the way that I was speaking to myself, being far more kinder and loving, because I can be kind and loving to other people.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't I be kind and loving to myself?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started thinking to myself, would you would you talk to, you know, not saying I'm a boy, but that that that little child that we all have in that inner child, would we talk to our inner child like that?
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: So why would we talk to another child on the street like that?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I talking to my inner child like that?
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I found it quite calming and soothing.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started tuning into that inner dialogue and the and the language I was using and the tone I was using, that was when it was like, wow, yeah, this shit's real.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I really got it and I understood it.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I can relate to you with the coaching.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_00: I coach people um through addiction problems.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I I coach them through it.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the work that I've been doing with people has been amazing, like unbelievable, because it's because they're locked and they're stuck in this thought process and they can't get out of it.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if someone's in a negative state of mind who's got an addiction problem, then there's a chance they could pick up drugs or or alcohol or something.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to help break down the problem that they have to establish the part that they played in it, if there was one, and to help them move on and let go and and and and and move away from it.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so freeing and cool to see.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, definitely coaching is the way forward.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pleased you've done that.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that experience as well is gonna just stay with you and it will develop you as a financial planner because you're not gonna be this kind of, you know, money and everything is a byproduct of doing a job well, but you can't do it, you know, you should do a job, you should enjoy your job by doing it well.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's you know, money is a byproduct, money will come to you if you're enjoying it and you're doing it well, and you feel less stressed about it and guilt, guilt-free.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I uh I get that.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, yeah.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, man.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: All right, great.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, okay, cool.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you're in a position at the moment with um Timothy James.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're working with those guys, fantastic.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, you've obviously been there now, what, five months?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about that, yeah.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: Seems to have flown by, but yeah, it would be about five months.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Five months, great stuff.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does the future hold for you then?
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking over the next sort of year then?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: What are you thinking you're gonna be doing?
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we're coming out of lockdown now, thank God.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you spent the last five months doing this job in lockdown as well, haven't you?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh yeah, it's been interesting.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's um but it's it's to honest, it's been the same for a lot of people, um, you know, that have started jobs in lockdown.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, they they've been brilliant, you know, sort of embedding you in the team.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, it's it would always be nice to sort of actually step into the office and meet them for the first time, but the reality is that's not possible.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in terms of what the future holds, um I guess yeah, I'll continue um to help clients in that sort of coaching life planning world that I think that will scare me forever.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it will sorry.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then yeah, just take off a few things.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: So like internally, I still you know have huge ambitions to um be a planner in my own right and you know, not always be the trainee um at the right time.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's going to require some more development and soft skills and um hopefully pick up a few exams.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got a huge um um driver really to help sports people because I think you know, we talked about this before from a financial planning perspective and helping them manage that um change in their life with hopefully no stress but as little stress as possible, um, giving them the choice that well, the choice of career or the choice of you know wherever they want to live and that possibility story of what they want to do with their lives.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know that ties in quite nicely with the coaching side of it, where you know you're not just their financial planner, but you can also help them develop themselves and what they value and what they you know want out of life post post-sport.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I want to change that story because I feel I mentioned it earlier in the podcast, but I feel there's a just a general message of negativity around that point in your life.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm not sort of uh saying that there isn't challenges, um, and you know, those are well documented, and um yeah, definitely emotionally I I've you know felt some of those that have been talked about, but I also think it doesn't have to be like that.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um you you can be excited about it, you know.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um there there's more to things than more to think more to things in life than you know the sport that you're in.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, if you explore those and you're well prepared, then you can really look forward to um to sort of you know life after sport, you know, I think that would actually also help the athletes be in the moment a little bit more, um appreciate you know what what they're doing.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and yeah, that's kind of what I see my future in at the moment.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think that's great.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the process you've gone down, you've doing this know thyself academy, I think that lends itself to what you just said.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think it's great, mate.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think um you're on the right path by the sounds of things.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's um it's going well.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've got uh you know really good support network, which will help me with it, um, which is the other important thing I'd say I'd like to mention.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it's it's going well at the moment.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, enjoying the process.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, thank you so much for your time, Save.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for sharing your journey so far.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I really appreciate your time.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, cheers, mate.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.