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Bruna De Palo: Bold Begins with Being Yourself · The Bold Lounge

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be free.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Today on the Bold Lounge, we have Bruno DiPallo.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Bruna is a neuroscience-based executive coach, international keynote speaker, and author of the Brain Instruction Manual for Leaders, What Nobody Told You About Working with Humans.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Drawing on nearly two decades of corporate experience and advanced studies in modern neuroscience at MIT, Harvard, and the Neuroleadership Institute, Bruna translates modern neuroscience into practical strategies leaders can apply immediately in high-pressure environments.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: She has delivered over 150 keynotes across four continents and worked with senior executives from Fortune 500 organizations, and Bruna serves as faculty at the Neuroleadership Institute.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: She is a professional certified coach and is the founder of Think and Act Differently LTD.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: She is born in Rome and based in London.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Bruna's mission is to help leaders create the conditions where people can perform at their best, making the corporate world a more human place.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the bold lounge.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: So happy to have you.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: So I am excited to jump into our discussion about everything neuroscience and leadership.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: But before we do that, let's talk about being bold.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: If you had to define being bold today for you, how would you define it?
2:11
SPEAKER_01: Great question.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: And one that I love.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: For me, being bold means being solid in whatever you know move I want to make that will help me raise the bar.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: So it's generally related to raising the bar, but doing it in a way that feels solid.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: And for me, being solid means having a clear list of values that will keep me grounded in my own world.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: So I can take as many bold moves as I want, as long as I know that I'm honoring my real nature as a human being, as a person.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So that allows me to raise the bar, to risk and eventually even fall.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: As long as I fall, still honoring my nature, then that's good.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: I think a non-bold move is when you try to do something different and you try to risk where you get away from who you really are and how you're supposed to express yourself in the world.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it can be as bold as we want, as long as I'm solid, because I know my ground, I stand on it, and that very much means honoring my values and my gifts.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a multi-layered definition, aligned, grounded, connected and to your values and aligned with your values, you're raising the bar and you're in that solid state of really, I know who I am, I know why I'm doing it, I know why I'm making this move, and you're moving forward into that.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: And even if I fault, it's okay, as long as I know that I honored myself in doing that.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: The problem is I think we beat ourselves up.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: If we fail on something that is not even what actually help us express ourselves, it's not exactly who we are or who we want to be.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: That's the moment where we start beating ourselves up.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: It's more for doing something that is just not you.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So I avoid the problem just by following what I really feel and I know who I am.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's great.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: You can avoid that, right?
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Avoid that feeling.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: So when you think it could be recent or in the past, is there a moment where you feel like you were solid, you're raising the bar, you're grounded, aligned, and doing what you were meant to do or wanted to do?
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it happened after I tried to take bold moves, but ignoring who I was.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: That's why it's so important to me.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: So I think my one of my boldest moves was moving to London in the attempt to change a career.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I come from Italy, I was in tech before, completely different career.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And now, as you know, I run my own business as a neuroscience-based coach.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: It's a completely different world.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: So that has been a very big, bold move.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: In order to get that, I tried to take a lot of big steps and failed.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: Then I reflected about why did I fail?
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Because I was following advice that wasn't meant for me.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: I was following advice, like follow your passion, build a career based on your passion.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's like if you've never worked one day in your life or something like that.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: This is nice, it's catchy, it's just not me.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: For me, at the end of the day, I realize it's not about passion, it's about self-expression.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I have many, many more chances, me and any other human being, to succeed in life.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: If I find a career where I can express who I am through what I do.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: So passion is definitely involved.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: It's obvious that if I'm doing something that I'm naturally talented at, of course I will also be passionate about it.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: But if I try to follow my passion as I did in one of my career change attempts, passion is not necessarily something I'm gifted at.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: So I was passionate about contemporary history, for example.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: So I tried to move from tech to contemporary history because I loved it so much, and then I failed, and so many doors I tried to get across, and they were closed for me.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: It's because that advice didn't work in the way I am built.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: What I think and what I feel is that we are here for a reason, and that reason requires to find its place in the world that we honor who we are.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: And that includes, yes, our values, as I say, but also our gifts.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: So I love contemporary history, still do.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gifted at that.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm gifted at other things.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: For example, speaking in public, connecting the dots, um, seeing patterns.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: All these types of gifts are honored in the career where I am now.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: History honors other gifts that I didn't have.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: So my bold moves failed because I tried to follow something that on paper could have worked, but actually not in reality, because it wasn't honoring who I am and what I bring in the world.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: The latest bold move is the one that truly worked, and it was truly bold, because in doing that, I didn't know what to do because it was all new to me, you know, a new country, new language, new career, running a business when I've always been an employee, a completely different world.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: It worked because even though I didn't know exactly what I was doing and what would be next, it was all unknown.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I felt somehow in the flow.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Because in doing that, I knew I was expressing my gifts.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: And I strongly believe if we're given some gifts, is because we are meant to use them in life.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: When you do that, you honor your nature as a human being.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Several things in there.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: So one of the things you said is the self-expression.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: It's really not this passion.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: You you hear everybody's got advice, right?
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Everybody has something they did or how they did, including me.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's all about really taking your own path, right?
7:16
SPEAKER_00: You can hear what someone did or what they saw or what they learned, and you can decide whether that's something you apply.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: But you specifically said it's about self-expression.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: And I love the way that you defined it.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: It is honoring who you are and letting people know who you are through what you do.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering, does self-expression in that way also align with our purpose?
7:39
SPEAKER_00: Because that's a bigger question we all have of like, why am I here?
7:42
SPEAKER_00: What am I supposed to do?
7:43
SPEAKER_00: So our gifts really help lead us to what our purpose is, is what I hear you say.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: For me, the two things are strictly related.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I mean, this was a biggest question that I also had.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, what am I supposed to do?
7:57
SPEAKER_01: What's my purpose?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of talking about purpose, especially in the coaching space in the last few years.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: But then I simply realized, you know, I'm very practical.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: For me, life is, I don't want to say it's rational, but there's always a rational explanation that helps us make sense of things.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And the point is, it helps my brain to settle on something certain.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: And certainty, it's a big thing in what I do.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: So basically, what I think is we all have a mission in life.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: But if we start from the question of that, what is my mission?
8:26
SPEAKER_01: What is my purpose?
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Money can be a million things.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to have cognitive exercise in realizing what is your mission.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: My point is another one.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I believe, and of course I might be wrong, but my my strong belief is that we're all gifted at something.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Our life journey is about uncovering what those gifts are.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Once you discover what your gifts are, it's your job to use them.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: So if you want to know what is your mission, what is your purpose, start with a vague question mark.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Start by looking at the tools that will allow you to get there.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't know what your purpose is, look at the tools that are being given to you.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: So you will fulfill your purpose, of course, by using your nature, using your gifts.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: So you don't know what's your purpose?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Look at your gifts.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: What are they?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And once you put them on paper and you start seeing the patterns and connecting the dots, you're much more likely to find your purpose because the two things are strictly related.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: You have to know who you are.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the hardest part for people.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: They don't know who they are because they've been ascribed a way of life or career that they didn't intentionally choose.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean it was bad.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean it was wrong.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: It just means they haven't taken the time yet or had the time to really even know who they truly are.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: And somehow I think we don't get to that point until our late 40s, maybe mid-40s to early 50s, of like, who the heck am I?
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Or what more to me is there?
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Right?
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Because our careers are part of us.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: It's not a bad thing, but there is a point where we need to understand ourselves, our gifts, things that have evolved over time.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And when you think about the neuroscience of that evolving, is there any certain piece of advice you would give someone to discover their gifts or to understand it's okay to think in another area or to think of something new potentially or bring something back to the front burner that you backburnered?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: I think people have a hard time thinking, oh no, it's too late.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: I can't really think about things like that.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, to all of your question, including the last one.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes, too often people think, oh, it's too late.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've seen people going to a public speaking course at 82.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Talking about too late, it's never really too late.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: The question eventually it's another one.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: Do I have the financial means to eventually change and potentially fail?
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Because that's the biggest elephant in the room.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Generally, it's money.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Because if it's not that we can definitely try.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Although I would never recommend to try many different careers, assuming that there's no financial constraint.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I would never ever recommend to try many different careers until you find the one that really fits.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Because all this has a cost, and that cost reflects on your self-esteem.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: It depends how you evaluate everything.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's much easier if you do what I did after all those mistakes.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And that is, okay, let me stop for a moment.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Either I'm wrong, or maybe there's something wrong in the process I'm following.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: So maybe rather than looking at what the market offers for my CV and adapt your CV or re-qualify as I did in a subject that I love, maybe let me see if there's someone in the world willing to pay for what I naturally bring in the world.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Because if I do that, I'm gonna have a much easier life and I have many more chances to succeed.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's where understanding what neuroscience is telling us is really important and practical.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, neuroscience is a very interesting subject.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: I think we're done with interesting.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a matter of turning that interesting stuff into something practical that can improve my life.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, what's the point of knowing that much about the brain?
11:59
SPEAKER_01: So, what we know through the latest studies on the brain, and it's important to point out that is the latest studies on the brain, because you know, technology is advancing quickly.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: New studies are basically making old information outdated.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: The old information you know are still alive and kicking because you know, people grasp some information and a lot of myths that have been already debunked years ago are still going around because people don't necessarily not necessarily realize yes, but science moved on.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: So we need to look at the latest research.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm emphasizing.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: So basically, what it's telling us, if we talk about peak performance, and by peak performance we mean the moment and the internal state where people can naturally perform at their best, it doesn't mean that they don't put any effort in that.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: It's just a condition, which basically means it's a sort of a specific balance of certain neurotransmitters, which are released when certain conditions are met.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: So when people are put in that condition, they naturally tend to exceed because of that kind of cocktail of neurotransmitters, a lot of other things that are happening in the body.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So for me, of course, the job of any great leader is to create the conditions so that people end up in that peak state more often.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: When it comes to choosing a career and getting to know yourself, what am I supposed to do, and so on, an important thing that we need to highlight here is that what we need to pursue is not happiness at work.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: That's a word that I used a lot at that time when I wanted to change.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I want to be happy at work.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to be happy at work means nothing because happiness by definition fluctuates.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, good boss, bad boss, good office, bad off it's too many variables.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: So we need to pursue if we want to honor our nature as a human being, is feeling alive at work.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: And of course, if you feel alive, you're also happy.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: But while happiness is very volatile, the feeling of aliveness, what makes you feel alive, tends to stay.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: And it tends to give you more strength when bad things happen.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, the interesting thing, going back to the neuroscience bit, is that if you analyze the cocktail of neurotransmitters, you can find in the brain of a person who's feeling alive, either at work or in other activities, guess what?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Is the same that you can find in people in pick performance.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, what that tells us is that when people feel alive, they naturally tend to perform at their best.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: That's why self-expression is so key for a successful career.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: So if you take the time, as I did, again, after many mistakes, if you take the time to truly understand who you are, how you function, what comes natural to you, what your real gifts are, not only can you also see by using all of them what might be your purpose.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: Because again, the two things are related.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: You haven't been given purpose and not the tools to achieve it.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So if you do that, not only are you much more in alignment, but you have many technically many more chances to succeed because you will be more often in a peak state.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And in a peak state, you can think more clearly, you can more easily connect the dots, you're more inclined to collaborate, you can solve problems more creatively, your work in memory works much better.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So when you are in that state, I don't want to say that everything becomes easier, but you have more resources to address them.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you feel like you have more tools in your toolbox for sure.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that's something definitely that I've felt since I left the corporate world unexpectedly from being burnt out and had to get to know myself pretty quickly with a very short runway.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I didn't focus on happiness, I focused on alignment.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: That was where I started, you know, still being focused on learning.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: But where did I get out of alignment?
15:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, burnout's a whole different topic, but it's certainly connected to many of the behaviors and many of the actions I took prior to that that were probably very much connected to neuroscience.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that I realized is that I had really limited myself from seeing the possibilities and of what I could be doing or how I could be working.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: I had my mindset on like this is the only way it can work, right?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: I have to have a corporate job, I have to do it this way, I need benefits, 401k.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: It's that's how I was raised, honestly.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: And nothing negative again about that, but it wasn't where I was at that point in my life.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: I had learned.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And so I think sometimes we set out, we have a goal, we don't know what we're gonna learn along the way.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: You call them mistakes, man.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: I I look at them as like that's more data.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, some mistakes have a lot of data.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Even more than others, yes, more than others, or have an impactfulness that is, you know, greater than, but it's all learning, you know?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things that I wondered from all the research that you've done is there anything that's connected to not being able to see what's possible, but then being able and open to it, but feeling again, like that has too much of a cost, right?
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And the cost could be financial, which is very, very important.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: And we've touched on that.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of times we think the cost is no one will understand it, no one will support me, they won't be my friends anymore, whatever they may think.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: The social aspect of making that change or doing the thing differently as a leader than someone else might do.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: What can we do to unlock limiting possibilities to see what's possible?
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't always mean leaving your job.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't mean that.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: I just mean like becoming more aligned with who you are, going back to self-expression.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, definitely.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: The key is suspending beliefs, and how do we uh recognize some limiting beliefs?
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Words like, for example, no one will, or always, or never, or should.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: These kind of words are generally clues.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: So what's driving our behavior?
17:51
SPEAKER_01: It's probably a belief.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean it's wrong or limiting, it means it requires some attention.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: You want to explore that so you can recognize on your own.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: It's important, most likely.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Like I always think fear is an indicator of it, doesn't mean stop, it means this is an important thing you're doing.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a move you need to think about.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: It isn't something you just do because you feel like it, you know.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Like think about it, be thoughtful.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important, first of all, being aware of our own thoughts and beliefs and questioning them, not discard them, just question them.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: As I say, that kind of words generally is a clue, it requires some attention because this might not necessarily be true that no one, maybe someone, maybe some will love me because of this change.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: So those key words, if we're hearing those words or saying those words to ourselves, then they're indicators of let's dig into that.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Is that true, right?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Is that real?
18:42
SPEAKER_01: And the second question we should ask is what evidence do I have of that?
18:46
SPEAKER_01: It's about evidence.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: As I said, I I tend to have a very rational approach.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: It's about evidence.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: So if you have evidence that everyone will dislike you because of what you're about to do, maybe stop it.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: But you have to have the evidence.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: If you don't, at least give it some chances to explore.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: So talking about career change, especially, it's one of the most uh fear-triggering type of changes that you can do.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Normally is of course fear of death, but right after is uh divorce and changing career.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Why?
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Because these two things generally are very much tied to your identity or the identity you built until that moment.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So the moment you start even just questioning, as I did, like, well, maybe I'm not happy in this career, immediately the second question is, okay, so what else can I do?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh really slowly.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: I just say that maybe this is not the ideal for me.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: The question should be why does the brain immediately jump in and want an answer?
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Because the moment I question my identity, basically what I am doing, and this is very interesting about the brain.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: What I'm doing, I am replacing certainty, okay, maybe certainty of a job that I don't like or a relationship that I don't want to be in.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: But still, it's something that exists and kept me alive until today.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Certain and stable, right?
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Like they feel it's a stable role, it's a stable relationship.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: It's it's familiar, it's familiar, it's good, it's not great, maybe, but it's solid.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: The brain doesn't care about great.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: So the whole point is if we want to do better at changing, for example, and overcoming fear, I think the most important thing to do is understanding how the brain works.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Because the whole thing about fear and limited beliefs, it's a way that protects you from feeling that fear.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's a step before it all comes from certain brain dynamics.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: If you understand those brain dynamics, you can get better control of your life and also your leadership or the way you run your family and so on.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Pretty much everything, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Because human behavior is generated by these brain dynamics, which is the reason why I wrote that book, because it's important to understand these dynamics.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, all the advice you've heard on leadership books or life coaching books or these kinds of things, it generally is solid advice, but you don't understand why.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: So if you don't remember what was the technique that that book taught you, you're lost.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you understand the dynamic, you own it, then the technique makes much more sense.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: And even if you don't remember exactly the technique, you can still do it on your own.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: But you need to understand how the machine runs.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: So, in this sense, it's important to know that the number one job of the brain is not to think, of course, is to keep us alive.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: And there are many different ways.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: No, that the brain does that.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: You think about this.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: If it's true that the number one job of the brain is to keep us alive, it's obvious that everything questions the status quo, like, oh, I'm not happy in this career, in this relationship.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the brain thinks this kept you alive.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: Now, if you change, I don't know if we're going to be alive again.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: So let's stay here.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: So the natural tendency of the brain is this.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Why?
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Because it's much less energy demanding to stay where we are instead of embarking on a change journey.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: So, what we call resistance.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: To change is basically a very quick brain calculation.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: In the book, I call the brain, like our CFO, is the CFO of our own company, our own organization, which is our body, which, like every organization, has an innovation and growth department, but also a security and defense department.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: So the CFO is in charge of the body budget, the money, and decide when the money goes to innovation and when the money goes to defense.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Now, talking about change, you know, your career, for as unhappy as it made you, kept you alive with a house, maybe, you know, certain lifestyle.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: The moment you question, yeah, but maybe I'm not too fulfilled here.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: What you are doing to your brain, you say, hey, CFO, let's embark on a career change journey, which looks like a big bird question mark.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, what I have now, it's tangible, not ideal, it's tangible, it's concrete, it's familiar.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Now, everything that is not familiar for the CFO, it's a risk.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna cost a lot of money, worth it.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Unless you make it very clear that it is worthy and it's not that risky.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: So if you see it this way, imagine you know you're in an organization and you want your department, your team to invest in a new software or a new process or whatever.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: It's your job to persuade the CFO that it's worth it.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: And what does a CFO, a good CFO, want?
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Data, certainty.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: You go with a blurred plan, the CFO will not even open the door.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: So you want to go there with a plan, not a guarantee that it will work, but a clear plan.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Where is the effort?
23:32
SPEAKER_01: How much does it cost?
23:33
SPEAKER_01: What is the potential return on investment?
23:35
SPEAKER_01: And all this kind of information.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: The last thing you want to do is to knock at that door with uncertainty.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: So, translating this back to the career change journey, the moment you say, Oh, I'm considering I might change my career, you already know the CFO is coming, trying to make you resist from that.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: So you need to understand that that's just an attempt.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you can't.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: All the limiting beliefs, no, but you don't have the money, you don't know what to do, you're gonna fail, no one is gonna hire you.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, these are the thoughts that we all have.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: So resistance to change, would you say then is actually is just you don't have enough data yet to know why you want to make the change or how or when, you know, fill in the blank.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Fill the blank.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: The thing is, if you follow it and you don't fill the blank, the CFO will fill it in its own way based on past experiences, what he's heard.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, the brain is a predicting machine.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: If you fill the blank with data, the CFO will predict less.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: But if you don't fill it with information, the brain will predict with past experiences.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: And maybe you've heard of that person 10 years ago who changed his life, uh, changed his career, and now he's living under a bridge.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's why your brain is not happy about that.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like remember this or remember that or see how it worked out.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: So again, it's its job is to keep us safe, to keep things stable, to keep things status quo, and that equals safe in the brain's mind.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And you can live there, you could live there your whole life, and it's okay.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, many people do.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: What do they miss if they do that?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Or what could they miss?
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, is recognizing those voices that you hear in your mind, those gremlins, as I call it, those limiting beliefs, I just intend to keep the status quo.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not the truth.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: That's why you need to question them.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: So you question them, and you know what the brain was, what the CFO wants, it's a plan.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: So let's make a plan.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: You still don't know what will be your ideal career.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to know.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Let's say that you want to climb a mountain.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: You don't exactly know what you will find at the top of the mountain, but you do know that if you want to invest in this, you need to buy, you know, the right shoes, you need to have a backpack, you need to have water, you need to have a sandwich, you need to have the equipment.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's what you want to do.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: So you climb a mountain, just as you are right now.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: You collect everything that you need the supplies, you need the plan.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: The change is the same.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, is okay, if you know what you want to do, wonderful, it's already a big step ahead.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: If you don't, it's still fine, you can still create a vision of how you want to feel.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't know what you want to do, but you know that you want to feel alive, okay.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: But feeling alive, if you've been in a career that you don't enjoy, it's new to the brain.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: The brain doesn't know what that means.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: So we need to be very specific.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, what would be for me, Bruna?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: What would that mean?
26:25
SPEAKER_01: Being alive?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: How would I feel?
26:27
SPEAKER_01: What would I do?
26:28
SPEAKER_01: How will it look like?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: What will be different in my life?
26:31
SPEAKER_01: What impact will have on the people around me?
26:33
SPEAKER_01: Just try to create a picture with what you have.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: If you don't have the big information, it's okay.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Add as many as you can, collateral information.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's already something because you are replacing the big blurred question mark with kind of a shape.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Is that like what the vision board is supposed to represent for folks?
26:51
SPEAKER_00: This is what feeling alive for me this year looks like.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Would you say that?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which I call the action board more than vision board because it's about taking actions from that vision.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So you create the vision, then you take all these pictures, then you call it as you wish.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: For me, it works action board because it needs to remind you it's you taking, it's not just wishful thinking.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: But vision board is absolutely fine.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some people have this idea.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: No, no, guys, this is a false narrative that's been around for so many years.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: No, you have to take concrete, continuous actions, but you want to do it having a clear lighthouse.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: No matter the tsunami, you can meet along the way, the lighthouse must be there.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Now, I promise you, in these, your CFO is much more on board because he knows he has to go through some hurdles, but at least he knows exactly where to go.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: How and to do what, okay, we can discover it along the way.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: So, first step is building a vision that reminds you what makes this so important to you.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: And the second step, as we said, we need to fill the blank.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: So we need to give the CFO so many information.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: The next one is who am I today?
27:55
SPEAKER_01: It's not so much what's my purpose.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: As we said, is what are my gifts?
27:59
SPEAKER_01: If you want to feel alive at work, we said you need to find a career that honors who you are.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: So, of course, the next step is understanding who you are today, your values, your vision in the world, your gifts, everything that makes you you.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: So you want to discover this in a very, as I would do it, in a very analytical way.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: So you want to have a long list of all the things that make you you.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Because the next step is looking for someone who will naturally benefit from that.
28:27
SPEAKER_01: That's how I came into coaching.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: I didn't say I want to be a coach, I didn't even know coaching existed.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: I said I have these gifts.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Who's willing to pay for that?
28:35
SPEAKER_01: You can have many more chances to succeed if I use them.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And I was so right.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: So the question is, what do I want to use?
28:42
SPEAKER_01: So, what which asset can I bring to my CFO so that at least he can see that there's something solid that I'm looking for?
28:49
SPEAKER_01: There's no way, but if you base your career on your gifts, you're going to fail.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: No way.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: You're gifted at that.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: So the point is, have you made the right decision?
28:58
SPEAKER_01: So the second step, as I said, is find out who you are today, what people tend to compliment you about, what is that you do that other people are surprised when they look at you?
29:10
SPEAKER_01: When do you tend to end up in the state of flow?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: As I say, pick performance, a state of flow.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: When you end up there, it's because there are some conditions that have been met.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: You want to understand what those conditions are.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: So looking at when you go into the state of flow, which is when you lose sense of time and space, well, chances are if you are in a state of flow, it's because in that moment you are expressing yourself, which doesn't come from effort, it comes from alignment.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: So that's a good clue.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: So when you are expressing yourself and you get into a state of flow, that is alignment, not effort.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: There's this definitely effort.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to get the idea that flow means half of each other.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Of course not.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, it takes effort.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, but it is more so like you're more aligned with your gifts, is what you're saying.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's why it feels like flow.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes you figure that out.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Like I bet everyone listening could name where they lose time, track of time, but like, how do I make that a career?
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And how do I, or how do I do more of it?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: Again, I tell people, don't quit your job.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: You can have your job and still do things that you know align with who you are.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean you have to make this change and quit your job and be an entrepreneur.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: It just means do more of that.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Find more time for that, choose that, right?
30:24
SPEAKER_00: But what if someone feels like that's too far of a space or they don't know, is it going back to the CFO?
30:30
SPEAKER_00: What would the CFO need?
30:31
SPEAKER_00: A plan, the vision.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: What does it look like?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Is that is that where you go to start?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, all the things that you said, and then is also about considering resources and obstacles like a real plan, like a rational plan, because at that point, the brain is a very rational machine.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: A plan with how would it truly happen?
30:50
SPEAKER_00: But I think that's where people stop.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh, it's too big, it's too much.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Even as a leader in an organization, with they think, oh, that's too much of an ask or too big of a leap or whatever it may be.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Some of us, I think, you and I, probably within our own organizations that we were in, probably challenged the status quo at times.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: I know I did.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I know you had to have.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So when we think about, you know, your book, The Brain Instruction Manual for Leaders, What Nobody Told You About Working with Humans, is there anything that comes to mind when you think about this particular book that is like the aha moment that everything gets leveraged off of?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would say perhaps is the core principle.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: And that is your job as a leader, but I would say as a human being, really, it goes beyond leadership.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not as many people do like motivating others.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Good luck if you think that you can create a high-performing team or family by motivating each of them all the time.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna work.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: It's the biggest lie, the thing about motivation.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not about motivation.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: I would say that it's about creating the conditions where people's brains can perform at their best.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: That is your job as a leader.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Is how do I shape the condition so I put that brain in the condition to perform at their highest state of flow possible, right?
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And this means focusing on some biological processes, not what works for you, what works for Bruna, what works for Mark, what works for Sylvia.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: It's just too complicated, especially if you have multi-generational teams and multicultural teams.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's about understanding, okay, what is that we all have in common?
32:22
SPEAKER_01: We're all human beings, and at any latitude in the world, we're all designed in a certain way.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Of course, that doesn't apply to neurodiversity or mental disease and so on.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about, on average, how the brain, the body, and human beings work together.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: When you understand those dynamics, you will see what to do and what works for Mark, for Sylvia, for Bruna, and so on.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't have to be a personal approach, otherwise, it's too overwhelming.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: So the core idea of the book is, which applies to career change as well, is understand these core dynamics of the brain and see them in action because you see them in action all the time.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: You just don't spot them because you don't know what to look for.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, other readers have told me once you read it, you cannot not see it in the world anymore.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: So you want to understand what drives behavior, including your fear when you're about to make bold moves.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: You want to understand what's the real dynamic at play so you can interact with that.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you are operating a machine blindly.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's why, especially in career change, sometimes then we stop.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: I get to a certain point, okay.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I give my CFO a full plan and then I stop.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Because you don't understand the dynamic that is driving all that.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: You want to recognize that that resistance means certain things, means I need more information.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're not good enough for that.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: It means it needs more information.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: And what the brain truly needs to feel safe is certainty.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay, you could say, how can I be certain if I'm making such a big change?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, of course I don't have certainty in my career change.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: But you can give it as many information, like the equipment you need to climb the mountain, try to give it as many information as possible.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: For example, very underrated resource I found to be stories of other people who changed their career.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: If you try to figure out everything on your own, again, you're a predictive machine, but your box of experiences is limited.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: If you read, for example, a lot of stories of other people who changed their careers and have been through the same hurdles and obstacles and learn how they overcame them, that is new data that you can use for your plan.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And you can show your brain that a lot of other people have the same issues, financial constraints, concern, resistance, and so on, and still made it.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So other people's successful stories is a huge source of information for your, let's say, financial plan when you deal with your CFO.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: You want to predict what might be obstacles, resources that you can count on.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: And by resources, I also mean emotional support.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: You want to know in advance if you can count on your partner's support, your kids' support, or if you also have to find resources to face them when they will criticize you for that.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: So really put everything on paper and everything starts being clearer.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And the more you work on these, the more you activate your RAS.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: RAS means reticular activating system, which is the filter that your brain uses to filter reality.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: So if the brain knows what it's looking for, it will activate this filter and will find what you have in mind.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: So let's say when I created my list of all the gifts that I bring into the world, I didn't know I wanted to be a coach.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: But when coaching came in front of my eyes, because my filters were already activated, knowing that I was looking for something who could leverage my ability to speak in public, my ability to connect the dot, to see the patterns, and so on, immediately something clicked.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: And so, oh, I need to look into that.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: But while I was looking for another career, having only my CV in mind, my RAS was focused on tech, web development, digital marketing, because that is the world where I was coming from.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: By doing all this work, let's say building this financial plan, you keep your brain focused on what really matters to you.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: As long as your RAS are activated, the world around you, which has a lot of opportunities, will start showing you more opportunities who were there even before.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: You just couldn't notice them because you were so worried, thinking about I don't like this career.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: But the moment you start focusing on the solution, the action board, and what you really want, how it will look like, and what are your gifts and so on, your RAS stay focused on what will be next.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: So if an opportunity that meets all these criteria appears, you will see it and you can explore it.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so be able to identify it, right?
36:40
SPEAKER_00: So the way that you have the book set up is the part one is how the brain works, the brain dynamics and things that you need to understand really about the brain, almost like you know, I called it leadership brain 101 in a way.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And then part two, how to use the brain, applying those dynamics to real leadership challenges.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: But at the heart of it, really is something you said just a few minutes ago, is that we're all human.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: So as we close out, one of the things you talk about is building healthier teams and having healthier teams.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: We hear a lot about psychological safety, right?
37:11
SPEAKER_00: How is it different in a workplace that says they have psychological safety?
37:15
SPEAKER_00: But what does a brain-safe workplace actually look like where people feel like they can be creative, they can solve higher-level problems, they can ask questions that are different types of questions.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: What does a brain-safe workplace actually look and feel like?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Great question.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Here, I'd like to emphasize something that I'm sure your audience already know very well, but I think it's important to repeat it that by psychological safety, we mean the certainty that the team must have that they will never be criticized, judged, laughed about, gossiped about, or anything like that.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: When even if you do it as a leader, I really wish you don't do it as a leader, you need to ensure that these things don't happen behind your back once everyone has left the room.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: So, your number one job, if you want to shape this condition for big performance, is to ensure that everyone feels safe all the time inside the room and outside the room.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: And why is this so crucial?
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is vital, for example, for innovation.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: There's no way that you can innovate if you're not ready to embrace failure, because innovation and failure go hand in hand.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: But failure needs to be acknowledged as a positive thing.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just okay, we fail, that's it.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: No, you want to create a culture where failure is welcome because it's the only way to think outside of the box and innovate.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you do that for a brain?
38:32
SPEAKER_01: So that's what the brain needs.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: It needs to have a constant reassurance, the sense and failure are welcome.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: And you cannot rely on common sense because here everyone is coming from different generations, different culture.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: So, you as a leader, you want to make it super clear.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: So, you want to invite this sense, which might be, for example, a shift from very often we ask, is it all clear?
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Have I made myself clear in the meeting?
38:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a genuine question.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't invite this sense because the expected answer somehow is yes.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: So you want to be pushing on that and say things like, What am I missing here?
39:06
SPEAKER_01: What have I forgotten?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: What have I taken for granted?
39:08
SPEAKER_01: What have I not thought about?
39:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: So that means inviting this sense.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: This means creating safe conditions for a brain to dissent because it reduces the friction, the obstacle that I have to overcome to tell you what I think.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: But more important than this is coherence.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: There must be coherence in the team.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: If this happens once in a while, you're not building that culture and those conditions.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: You want to be coherent, and every single time there is a criticism, there's something that doesn't work, there's a failure, or there is a dissent, you always want to react in the same way.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Because psychological safety is really fragile.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: The moment you're not acting coherently, people listen.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: As I say, the brain wants to feel safe.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: The moment I spot, hmm, the other day he said so, but today he's saying that.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Not safe.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: So I would say that psychological safety takes a lot to build, and it can go just in the blink of an eye, can just go like that.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: So work on the coherence and connecting it to having really a brain-healthy space, right?
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's crucial.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's crucial.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: So the understanding, the level of understanding is deeper and it lasts longer as well.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: One last thing.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: So this sounds like a lot.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we've talked about a lot.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about a lot of things.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about your incredible book that everyone should pick up because it gives you the quick start to really everything we've said today.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: When you think about one thing someone can do that's simple, it feels like it's doable.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: What's something someone can do right now, today, if they want to learn more about their own gifts, what they're good at?
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Because we that's a really, I feel like that's where we start with some of this.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: What's one thing they could do today that's a simple thing that they could start doing?
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Observing themselves, observing how they feel, because that's the big revealer of what your gifts are.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: First of all, we're all gift something.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: The problem is we tend to take it for granted because it's so natural for us that we don't think it's something special.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: The thing is, you've always been you, you don't know that I don't have that thing that you do.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's really important to do two things.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: One is observing yourself.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: How do you recognize a gift?
41:14
SPEAKER_01: You spot it if you observe your behavior.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: So when you are in your element, you naturally tend to relax and open up.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: You naturally feel more confident.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: So observing your body language or your team's body language helps you understand if there's a gift involved somehow.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: When we are out of our element, we tend to narrow down because we are in a defensive state, because we don't really own what's going on.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely blue.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: Another one is I use a framework to identify gifts.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: So what is a gift?
41:43
SPEAKER_01: It's that thing that comes natural to you.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: When you do it, you tend to feel great, you tend to expand.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's also that thing, but when you do it naturally and you tend to expand, you tend to succeed.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: So this is my framework to find out what a gift is.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, there are things you could say, you know, you're very empathetic.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's wonderful.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: But is being empathetic a gift or is it a personal characteristic?
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's irrelevant.
42:09
SPEAKER_01: If it comes natural to you, if when you apply that thing, you tend to feel great, you tend to expand, and then you tend to succeed, maybe the relationship with the other person, then that's probably a gift.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Who cares if it's if it is or it is not a personal characteristic?
42:25
SPEAKER_01: So that's the framework I use with clients to help them identify their own gifts.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: And the other thing, of course, another golden way is to ask others.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Because again, you've always and only been you.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: There are things that you do that come so natural to you but are so special to others because for them perhaps it's a struggle.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: So you want to identify what others see that comes natural to you and ask them.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: So in my work, I ask my clients to go in their network, not the people that will tell you, oh, you're amazing, you're lovely.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: We don't need that.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: We're not fishing for compliments.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: We want data.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: So you can go to your network, you can choose the right people and ask.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, you could say, I'm doing this research for myself.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: I'd really appreciate knowing what is it that you think that I do naturally that comes so natural to me that I'm gifted at.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And then you want to ask, when did you see this in action?
43:16
SPEAKER_01: What makes you say so?
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Because I can tell you, oh, you're so amazing.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it means nothing.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: So you want to ask, what do you think are my gifts?
43:25
SPEAKER_01: What do you see me do it naturally?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what does it result in, right?
43:28
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: What when did you see this in action and what impact did it have in the world?
43:33
SPEAKER_01: What was the result?
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Now, with this data, you are enriching your plan.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: At some point, your CFO will be with you and it will help.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: But you have to give it what it needs, really, and not think that you know those limiting beliefs that you have, it's the truth.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not the truth, is your quickest and most energy-saving way for your brain to keep the status quo.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: If you understand it, you can keep pushing in the right way.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: If you don't know it because you don't know how the brain works, you stop and you say, No, no, no, no, no.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: No, because I remember last year I've heard of that person, she ended up in trouble.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: No way, you're not gonna change.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: So start creating this list, even if you just think about it for you know 15 minutes today, maybe do 15 minutes tomorrow.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Start creating that list and asking others, I think, of you know, being able to see it from a different vantage point.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Like you said, sometimes we take our gifts for granted and we don't know they're even gifts.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: We just think that's what I do.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: So that's how it goes.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: So so much information.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I could talk to you for hours and hours.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Please do pick up the brain instruction manual for leaders.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: The information about that is below, along with your website, which when you sign up, you get resources on a regular basis.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: So sign up, it's free to sign up to keep in touch with Bruna, her work, all the things that she does, speaking and more.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge and sharing your bold journey and the things that we can learn about ourselves uh by learning about our brain and how they work.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: It's been a great pleasure.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking a leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.