Latest / The Blind Chick / I GOT SOBER… AND LOST MY “FRIENDS” | In Collaboration with Disability Diaries with Steven Vine

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I GOT SOBER… AND LOST MY “FRIENDS” | In Collaboration with Disability Diaries with Steven Vine · The Blind Chick

• The Blind Chick (00:06) Hello everybody and welcome back to The Blind Chick. This is Penn Street. And today's episode is a really special one. My buddy up in Canada, Steven Vine and I, teamed up for a conversation about a topic that really does affect the blind and Low-Vision community, but we don't talk about it nearly enough. But It's an important one and we should be talking about it more and it's addiction. Steven is sharing our conversation that we had on his podcast, The Disabilities Diaries with Steven Vine. And Disability Diaries with Steven Vine is a really incredible podcast. So even though you're listening to it here on The Blind Chick, please go check out Steven's podcast. He has lots of amazing guests and he covers a lot of really important topics. Before we jump in, I have some awesome, awesome news. Here at Aftersight, we're thrilled to welcome Liam Erven And he Liam is the new host of our podcast, Blind Level Tech. And Liam has a great background in podcasting. And he's bringing a new fresh look, a new voice, and a new energy. So super excited to have Liam on board. Liam was on The Blind Chick on our October 1st episode that dropped. So if you'd like to learn more about Liam as he takes over the role of Blind Level Tech, please go back and listen to that episode. It was a really great episode on The Blind Chick. We also have a new team member here at Aftersight, Anthony Elio. And I remember Anthony's name by I say Elio like Elmo, but his name is not Elmo. I don't know if he would appreciate it if I called him Elmo, but we'll find out when he starts. he's starting in about two weeks. and Anthony he's joined us. he is joining us. As his official title is Assistant Podcast Producer. Jonathan Price is our podcast producer and has been doing such a phenomenal job with our podcast, but he can't do it alone. He's so busy he needs an assistant. So Anthony is going to be the person in charge there. Anthony brings a lot of experience in podcasting and in audio engineering. So I'm really excited. To the next level that he's gonna take the blind check. and I will also be interviewing Anthony here on the blind check. Once he gets his feet wet and it gets settled into the org, I'd love to have him on so you get to know more about him here on the blind check. I do wanna give a big thank you to everybody across the United States and beyond who celebrated White Cane Day last week. I was lucky enough to be at several events across Colorado. And I do want to give a special shout out to the Colorado Lions Clubs. They hosted several events all across Colorado. So thank you, thank you. I do want to give you a friendly reminder that we are going into end of year giving time. And I know we all get asked. Give, give, give during this time of year, all the way through the new year. but statewide, statewide, we have Colorado Gives Day, which is on December 8th, and the week before that is Giving Tuesday, which is a NAS a national campaign. These two days they really shed light on the nonprofits in our communities and the people that they serve. those nonprofits show up when A lot of times when we need the most or we're lost and we don't have answers to what's going on. And so it's a really an awesome couple of days that you can support the nonprofits in your world. And if you have a few extra bucks laying around and you don't just don't know where to put it, you can send it to us here at Aftersight. just go to the website aftersight.org/donate donate and that will direct you to either our standard giving platform or our Colorado Gives Day. And we do have an exciting collaborator this Colorado Gives Day. It's the Schlesman Family Foundation. They have put up $10,000 in matching funds. So the first $10,000 that is donated during Colorado Gives Days will be matched dollar for dollar from the Schleshman Family Foundation. So thank them for that. also you might notice my partner, my heart, Moses is not on with me today. And that's because Moses is still a professional photographer and he has a couple of photo jobs that he is Frantically trying to wrap up this week. So that's why he's not on here. But I promise, I promise he will be back on next week. I wanna give a huge shout out to Melissa in Pennsylvania. Melissa, you know who you are. Melissa is a fan of the Blind Chick podcast and reached out to me and we have a lot in common, including we both had Stevens Johnson syndrome as a kid. And Melissa and I had a very beautiful talk. Over the weekend, and I didn't want to hang up from her. we are definitely kindred spirits. And Melissa, I just want to give you a shout out because you have no idea how much my heart, my soul needed a chat with you. And it was just, it was such a beautiful conversation, and I really, really needed it. And it really made me think about. how important it is to find your tribe and to talk to people and invite people into your world. So this episode is even extra special because of that. So let's get started. steven vine (07:04) Welcome to the Disability Diaries with Steven Vine. I am your host, and I gotta tell you, I'm pretty excited about this episode today. I would like to welcome all the domestic listeners Penn Street (07:10) I'm pretty excited about this episode today. I would like to welcome all the domestic... steven vine (07:18) in Canada, and I'd like all the international listeners, whether you live in Loveland or Thailand, or anywhere between or around, my arms are open. I'm welcoming you. to hear this very special guest today. And my guest is really gonna be my co pilot. Her name is Penn Street. And Penn, can you introduce yourself to the listeners? Penn Street (07:46) Absolutely. As Steven said, I'm Penn Street and I'm the host of a podcast called The Blind Chick. And it's great to be back with you, Steven. steven vine (07:56) And it's great to have you in a different role than last time. We have the link with the notes of this podcast if you want to hear the interview that we conducted with me asking you questions last year. And today it's going to be a little bit different, Penn, because we're going to be co pilots. It's going to be more of a conversational piece that we've agreed Penn Street (08:19) Yes. steven vine (08:19) to do. And we've chosen a topic that we think is not only important in my life and your life, but every everybody's. And I'd like you to tell everybody Penn Street (08:29) Yes. Yeah. steven vine (08:33) what we've decided we're gonna do together today. Penn Street (08:37) Yeah, we're going to talk about alcoholics, alcoholism and addiction as a person with a disability and how it impacts our lives and some of the things that we've done that have worked and maybe some things that haven't worked so well. So yeah. steven vine (08:54) Yeah, and and you know, we want to address this with everybody because there seems to be a commonality with a lot of disabled individuals that they rely on a substance to get them through, Penn Street (09:08) Yes. steven vine (09:09) to to numb them because things are difficult. And Penn Street (09:14) Yes. steven vine (09:15) we all know they're difficult, and it really comes down to how you approach that difficulty that's going to Penn Street (09:21) Absolutely. steven vine (09:22) gonna affect. not only yourself, but everyone else that's in your world. And th and those individuals do not have to be disabled. Penn Street (09:28) Absolutely. Right. steven vine (09:34) So Penn, how about you tell us your quote? After you do that, I'll tell everyone my quote. Penn Street (09:41) Absolutely. So my quote is by Helen Keller. She's gotten me through a lot of rough times and she's one of my favorite, favorite authors and human beings on this planet. And it's neat that people still celebrate her today. But one of her quotes really hit home for me today is walking alone in the dark. I'm sorry, I'm gonna repeat that. I said it wrong. steven vine (10:06) That's okay, no problem all. Penn Street (10:08) Walking alone in the dark. with friends is better than walking in the light alone. steven vine (10:17) Wow, they like that. That's a lot of clapping. That's good. I I'm clapping here too. Penn Street (10:23) Yeah. steven vine (10:24) you you've you've decided on a a subject with your quote that so have I about darkness as well. And let me say let me say the quote and then we'll talk about that collectively. So my quote is by Martin Luther King Jr. And he said, Only through the darkness will you see the light. Penn Street (10:45) Wow. Yes. Yeah. steven vine (10:45) And my quote, my quote about darkness is associated with hope. And he felt that you really only need or have hope when you're dealing with adversity. When an individual, when an individual decides to make a change, such as controlling alcohol and maybe abstaining from it, if that's what you choose to do, you're dealing with some adversity because you're making a change. And the hope that you have while you're going through this. Penn Street (11:13) while you're through this, but keeping positive and keeping going to accomplish what you're doing. And for your darkness, how could you say a little bit more about that in your book? Yeah, steven vine (11:14) will keep you positive and keep you going to accomplish what you want to do. And for your darkness, how could you say a little bit more about that with your quote pen? Penn Street (11:26) absolutely. Well, especially talking about alcoholism is that I couldn't have kept my sobriety without friends and family. And like one of the things that I did early on and I was told this by my, my therapist, my treatment people that make sure people around you know you're recovering alcoholic because it's steven vine (11:56) For sure. Penn Street (11:58) then they don't, they're less likely to say, Hey, do you want to go out for a drink? But if you keep it steven vine (12:03) Mm-hmm. Penn Street (12:03) a secret, like there's, I don't know who said it, but there's a, you're only sick as your darkest secret. And steven vine (12:10) Okay. Penn Street (12:10) if you don't have secrets, then you don't have to worry about it. So, and it has helped me, I think, when that friends and family knew that I'm sustaining from drinking and, but also the support when things get bad, you know, we all have those dark days. My friends show up with me, you know, they show up with, you know, chocolate or a cup of coffee instead of a bottle of wine, you know. steven vine (12:39) I think it's also it's good to say the fact that when you're open about this type of problem situation, you're being honest, of course, and there's nothing to be embarrassed about. Penn Street (12:51) Yeah. That's right. steven vine (12:54) There's nothing to have shame about. It it does Penn Street (12:57) Yeah, I mean, if you had cancer or you were diabetic or you have these other issues in your life, you shouldn't be ashamed of those either. And that's the way I look at alcoholism and drug addiction is it's just something that you have in your life and you need support to sustain or to stay healthy in it. steven vine (13:23) I realized I had a problem when I was relying on alcohol. And every one of us has a their own subjective definition of alcoholism. And Penn Street (13:36) that's, yeah. steven vine (13:37) and for me, it's about that word rely. I believe a person has an alcoholic problem or is an alcoholic when they live their life and they're relying on alcohol. So Penn Street (13:51) Yeah. steven vine (13:52) In my particular situation, and we'll talk about yours after me here, is that every single day I made plans of when I was gonna have a drink. I'm going out for lunch, Penn Street (13:56) is that every single day I need plans of when I was going to have a drink. Yes. steven vine (14:05) I'm gonna have a couple beers. I'm watching the hockey game tonight, I gotta make sure I got a bottle of wine ready to go with dinner. we're going out for dinner, I Penn Street (14:12) Yeah. steven vine (14:15) wanna make sure I got a six pack before we go. That type of mentality, that type of behavior pattern. Now I was trying to look at the big picture for myself and I was saying, Wow, I'm planning when I'm drinking every day. Obviously I'm relying on it. I've got a Penn Street (14:30) Yeah. steven vine (14:32) problem. I really have a problem. And what what about you? Well Penn Street (14:35) Yeah, yeah, I, I think I feel the same way, Steven, you know, that when instead of thinking about the event, like, I'm to go have dinner with friends. I wonder where we're going to go or, I heard they have a really good steak there or whatever. You're steven vine (14:54) Yeah. Penn Street (14:55) not thinking about that. You're not thinking about the where steven vine (14:58) Yeah. Penn Street (14:59) the when the how you're like, I wonder what's on. my, that's my favorite drink is there or, you know, steven vine (15:06) Yeah. Penn Street (15:06) when it when you're thinking more about the alcohol and you're making plans around the alcohol, I think steven vine (15:12) Right. Penn Street (15:12) that that is definitely a red flag. But I think it's also the after effect. If you know you're going to be going out partying and that and then you're planning the hangover or you're already like, I'm I'm not gonna be able to get up to go to work tomorrow. I need to plan my excuse to my boss. Or if steven vine (15:33) Right. Right. That's right. That's right. That's Penn Street (15:39) you have plans with, you you're supposed to go have breakfast with friends and the next morning and they weren't part of the partying the night before, like, well, how do I get out of that? You know, and yeah. steven vine (15:51) That's right. That's a very good point. That's a very good point. Is Penn Street (15:55) Yeah. steven vine (15:55) what you're doing what you're planning, not only with your drinking timing of it all, but the next day. How does that work? Right? Like you just Yeah. Penn Street (16:06) Yeah, like how's that gonna consequences, right? steven vine (16:11) Exactly. That's a very important important Penn Street (16:14) Yeah. steven vine (16:15) thing to say. Now we were going to talk about the next Item, which is the generational changes. What I mean by that Penn Street (16:23) Mm. steven vine (16:27) is so I'm 59, and I'm gonna be very close to 60 when this episode is being aired. And by the way, I forgot to say this: you're in Colorado. You're in Loveland, Colorado. And I I'm up north here Penn Street (16:36) And by the way, I forgot to say this, you're in Colorado. Yes, I am. steven vine (16:45) in my home studio with FOAD producing and in Port Moody. And so we're doing this via long distance. And you sound great over the phone, Penn. I just I'm so Penn Street (16:53) Yes. steven vine (16:57) glad that you know we feel like we're just sitting right beside each other talking about this. Penn Street (17:02) I agree. That's to me one of the great things that did come out of COVID is that there's all steven vine (17:08) Yeah. Penn Street (17:08) this new technology that we can be sitting side by side while we're not sitting side by side. So, yeah. steven vine (17:15) Yeah for sure, for sure. And so I'm not sure what your age is. I've never asked you that. I think we're all Penn Street (17:22) I'm 58, so my birthday's in March, so I'm heading towards 59, hopefully. steven vine (17:31) Yeah, so I'm basically a year and three months older than you. Penn Street (17:35) Mm. steven vine (17:36) So we're pretty much from the same generation. And it Penn Street (17:39) Yeah, absolutely. steven vine (17:41) and so our generation was alcohol was very evident in most people's lifestyle. Penn Street (17:48) Yeah. steven vine (17:49) Let's go have a drink. Let's let's get Penn Street (17:50) Absolutely. steven vine (17:51) let's get together and watch the football game and let's invite people over and have a drink. Penn Street (17:56) Well, even drinking and driving, at least here in the States, I remember being in high school and it was no big deal to drink and drive. Like it wasn't frowned upon. wasn't this horrific thing that it is in the next generation, right? Like I felt in, cause we're both Gen Xers is that steven vine (18:22) Mm-hmm. Penn Street (18:23) we... Like even that, like even how society looked at drinking and driving, which blows my mind. You know, there was no mothers against drunk drivers at that time. It was before DARE. I can't remember what DARE stood for. steven vine (18:44) Dri driving impaired. Penn Street (18:46) Something I can't remember but it was like this whole program that the next generation went through in school So that you learned about alcohol and drugs and don't drive and look all this stuff. It was not part Yeah, it wasn't part of our vocabulary No, steven vine (18:59) And the repercussions if you did so, right? The re what there there was no movement, so to speak, was there? Penn Street (19:07) there wasn't and when I When I quit and I went into an alcohol program, it was a 28 day program. My father was also a recovering alcoholic. And just from his generation to my generation, they didn't really, I mean, they had drunk tanks, like the cops would throw you in, you know, steven vine (19:32) Yeah. Penn Street (19:32) basically an empty cell for 24, 48 hours. But there wasn't really any like recovery centers or that kind of thing. They did have AA, but when my dad quit, it was actually mandated by the courts, is steven vine (19:50) Right. Penn Street (19:51) he quit. And so, and as far as I know, he never had a drink after that. But when, so when I quit and I wanted to go to a drug and alcohol rehab program, because I felt I needed that in my life. steven vine (20:08) Right. Penn Street (20:08) My parents were like, well, you just quit. what are you doing? You don't need that. So even the difference between my dad's generation and my generation, it was very, very different. steven vine (20:22) And I I I don't know about you, but when I decided to cool it with the booze, I was open about it. But Penn Street (20:31) Mm-hmm. steven vine (20:31) pe people were kind of like, wow, you're you're not gonna drink anymore. okay. It it was like Penn Street (20:37) Mm. steven vine (20:38) quite a bit of a big deal. And I think today's generation it's more prevalent to live that style and not for people to go. And recognize, you don't drink. alcohol's not included Penn Street (20:56) Right. steven vine (20:57) in your lifestyle. It it's it's in no alcohol is in a lot of people's lifestyle now. And it's it's it's Penn Street (21:03) Right, I agree with that, yeah. steven vine (21:05) more for the norm now than the exception. Does that make sense? Penn Street (21:10) Yeah. absolutely. Like I know, for work, I do a lot of big festivals and almost every single festival has, they call it their dry area or their alcohol-free area or whatever. And it's a place that they only sell non-alcoholic beverages and they're mocktails. know, they're fancy with the little umbrella and everything, but there's no alcohol steven vine (21:36) Of course, yeah. Penn Street (21:37) in it. And I've noticed over the last, I would say decade here in the United States, that mocktails are becoming really, really popular. So you can now be at a bar situation or party situation. And it looks like you have an alcoholic beverage in your hand, where before it was like a water glass or it was obvious you were. Like it was really obvious that you were sustaining, right? And now I feel steven vine (22:09) Yes. Penn Street (22:09) like it's, you know, steven vine (22:12) Much more common. Penn Street (22:13) exactly, exactly. And the Gen Zs, I do have friends that are Gen Zs, you know, that are in that 20, late teen or, 20 year old, and they don't, they don't drink. I mean, they might have a glass of wine, but they might not. Like they don't, It wasn't like, steven vine (22:35) It's not an issue. Penn Street (22:37) no, at all. They don't need to be drunk to enjoy whatever it is the activity is. Exactly. steven vine (22:43) Whatever they're doing socially. I want you to know, I heard an advertisement on the radio. We're both blind by the way, both Penn and myself. We we have no vision. And I was listening to something and I heard a commercial about a beverage that's now available that tastes exactly like the alcoholic drink. You get a little bit of a burning sensation. But the great thing about this beverage is You're not hung over the next day because there's no alcohol in it. And that wasn't available in our generation. And right. And so now they're coming up with substitutes. They're come, they're coming up with things that instead of have this, you know. So it's kind of interesting Penn Street (23:13) Hmm. Yeah. not no, not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. steven vine (23:33) how you can step back and you can actually look and see the progression. Is how I would label it, Penn Street (23:42) Yeah. steven vine (23:42) of how things changed for society to very much become more sober. And you know, the last thing I'm gonna say before we go to the next Penn Street (23:50) Yeah. steven vine (23:53) topic: when I worked, I worked in the hospitality industry, it was always talked about how the generation before ours used to go out Penn Street (23:58) always talked about how the generation before ours used to go out... steven vine (24:04) and have these power lunches, and the older waiters would Penn Street (24:07) Yes. Yes. steven vine (24:09) say. the money I make now at lunch is so much less than what it was Penn Street (24:15) Yeah. steven vine (24:15) 25 years ago. All the lawyers and accountants and business people would get together and they get shitfaced at a lunch and then go back at lunch and then go back to the office and then go home. And now that does not happen. People don't go out for lunch, get shit-faced, and then go home. Penn Street (24:25) at lunch. know. Now, right. steven vine (24:37) to their spouse and children and continue on. So that it's another interesting example of how things have changed. Now, how about go ahead. Penn Street (24:41) Yeah, exactly. Well, and even even recovery, even recovery, right has changed, I feel like steven vine (24:53) Yes. Penn Street (24:53) because like in my generation, when I quit, you know, I went to this alcohol treatment program, they taught me the 12 steps, you know, they gave me the big book. And you had to go to 90 meetings and 90 day it was like this very structured And if you didn't stick to it, you were gonna fall off the wagon. if you felt even, steven vine (25:15) Right. Penn Street (25:16) and you could not have like even, like they were even saying, like you couldn't even have scope, like mouthwash with alcohol in it. You couldn't have steven vine (25:25) Right, right. Penn Street (25:26) vanilla, you you couldn't cook with vanilla that had alcohol in it, you know? And it was very, very strict. And it worked for me, I'm still sober. October 9th is actually. my sobriety day, it's, steven vine (25:42) Congratulations. Penn Street (25:43) thank you. But now, Steven, there's this, like with you as an example, like you occasionally drink steven vine (25:55) Right. Penn Street (25:57) or there's even medications now. I think it's Ozempic or, steven vine (26:01) It is, it's so simple, yes. Penn Street (26:03) yeah, there's like, and there's even other drugs that get advertised. that curb that need, that drive for alcohol. And it's very, very, and yes, we still have AA and we definitely still have treatment centers, but the approach is very, very different now. steven vine (26:26) It is. Penn Street (26:27) So even recovery looks different and is accomplished differently now than. steven vine (26:33) And you know, that's that's I didn't want to bring up the fact that you, congratulations, have abstained from alcohol use for how many years is it? Penn Street (26:42) It's it'll be well it was 87 so it's 39 years so yeah yeah it's so crazy steven vine (26:47) Congratulations, dear. That's that's so cool that you're doing and have done all this. And I myself, I stopped drinking completely like you for about two years and a few months. And I no longer white knuckled it is a term they use when you're getting Penn Street (27:06) Yeah. steven vine (27:06) off of something you're abusing. You're squeezing your your hand so so much that you're white knuckling it. Penn Street (27:10) Yes. steven vine (27:13) And I realized after the first year or so. That I was no longer white knuckling it, and that I was very comfortable to be around people that were having a drink, and I felt I had finally gotten some c control with it, and I actually wanted to test myself. Now, I did so, but I am not suggesting anyone out there that's listening to do the same. I'm not Penn Street (27:22) Yeah. steven vine (27:41) I'm not telling you to do what I've done. Penn Street (27:42) to do what I've steven vine (27:43) It just happens to be a subjective situation. You chose to go your route. I chose to go my route. And we're still dealing with our disability. And isn't your disability different now that you no longer have alcohol in your life? Penn Street (27:44) Right. It just happens to me, expect the situation. You chose to your route, I chose to go my route, and we're still dealing with our disability. Yes. isn't your disability different now that you no longer have alcohol? yeah. Well, to me, when I was drinking and doing drugs, I was not accept, there was no, there was zero acceptance with my disability. And steven vine (28:17) Okay. Penn Street (28:18) like zero, like I didn't even use a white cane, which I still frightens me to think how I got around impaired. Luckily, steven vine (28:26) Right. Yes. Penn Street (28:28) I just, guess I had good friends. I had a little sister who probably made sure I stayed safe. But, my, I mean, with me, It was very, the change was extremely profound. Everything about who I was, what I was changed in my recovery. And I mean, I was one of those people, I moved away from home and I actually went through a blind and low vision program where they teach you how to be blind. And I think that was really helpful and I never would have. even thought about going through that program when I was using. Like it steven vine (29:12) Yes. Penn Street (29:12) would not, it never entered my brain that, if I got stronger in my blind skills, then it wouldn't be so depressed. I wouldn't be so depressed and feel so alone. If I met other blind people, maybe I would feel steven vine (29:30) Right. Penn Street (29:30) better. Like none of that ever entered my brain. steven vine (29:32) You wouldn't feel isolated, right? Penn Street (29:34) Yeah, but none of steven vine (29:34) Sort of yeah. Penn Street (29:35) that, Steven, ever entered my brain until I became sober. And then once I became sober, I was like this dry sponge that wanted to absorb everything I possibly could that was positive in the world and positive about my disability. yeah, so it was. is it was definitely I changed how I looked at my disability, how I lived in this world with my disability. What about you? Because I know yours kind of hit close together, right? steven vine (30:12) Well, for me for me, yeah, the timing was close together. Yeah. And so I I guess what I'd like to say is the big A is what I've called it in pr past conversations, when I've been interviewed or if I talk on the pod, the big A, which is acceptance. Penn Street (30:33) Yeah. steven vine (30:33) And and I really believe acceptance coincides with your reality of Clear-minded and clear-heartedness. And alcohol numbs you. And the more numb you are, the less you can accept something. You you need to be clear, like I've said, to accept something and to move you won't move on with something unless you accept it. When you're in con when you're in constant Penn Street (30:53) Yeah. Right. steven vine (31:03) denial, you're net you're not growing and you're not taking the next steps that are needed to be able. To deal with this adversity. And you know, for me in my wheelchair, you're Penn Street (31:12) Yeah. steven vine (31:16) not in a wheelchair, but I am. And to get around with complete blindness in a wheelchair, it's tough enough without being inebriated. And then if you have a couple Penn Street (31:23) Yeah. steven vine (31:28) of drinks and you add that to the responsibility you're trying to conduct, it's even more complicated and more of a messy Penn Street (31:34) Yeah. steven vine (31:37) situation. And it it's not cool, it's not comfortable, it's it's not good for you. And I think also on top of that is your self-esteem. When you're getting when you're getting loaded and you're spending all that money and you're not being accepting Penn Street (31:42) Yeah. steven vine (31:54) in with your what you're trying to deal with, you automatically have a lower self-esteem. And when Penn Street (31:59) Yeah. steven vine (32:00) you're abs absent from alcohol, your self-esteem rises, doesn't it? Penn Street (32:04) Yeah, it does. And I think the people you hang around with, my mom always said you're only as good as the people you hang out with. And it's true. steven vine (32:12) Yeah. Penn Street (32:13) You know, I mean, I was I was the party girl. got a lot of attention for being the party girl and the you know, I was funny when I was drunk and, know, but guess what? I can be really funny when I'm drunk, but I didn't. steven vine (32:28) Yeah. Penn Street (32:28) I didn't know that. I didn't know that I was a fun person because unless steven vine (32:33) Unless you had alcohol. Penn Street (32:34) I had alcohol, I, cause people made such a big deal about how fun I was when I was drunk. Nobody took the time that I was just as fun when I was drunk. It's probably even more fun now, but it's, but you don't know that. Cause like you said, you're like, you're, you're you're not showing up your true self and you're not making decisions from a clear mind and it's a cycle right like you you drink to medicate but then that makes you you know feel worse and so you drink more and it's it's a vicious it's a vicious vicious cycle but i also want to point out is Everybody's journey is different. Steven and I, we're very, different with the way we approach our recovery. And that's okay. It works for him. Because steven vine (33:36) Yeah. Yeah. Penn Street (33:37) I have people in my life that they go to an AA meeting at least five out of seven days a week. And if they didn't, they feel like they would fall off the wagon. And that works for them. It absolutely works for them. have nothing against that. know, it's whatever works for you so that you have the life that you want and that you're, you know, safe and growing. I think. steven vine (34:09) Want to say I want I want to segue into the next topic, but before Penn Street (34:12) Yeah. steven vine (34:13) before I do that, you know, I I want to say pushback. Like I look back and when I was telling people I'm no longer drinking, I didn't get I didn't get anybody Penn Street (34:27) Yeah. steven vine (34:30) that said, you should, you should still have a few drinks. You you you should still dabble, you should still Penn Street (34:34) Yeah. steven vine (34:37) Have your interest with wine and your knowledge? And we weren't supposed to ask each other questions today. We were just supposed to converse. But one question I have to bring up with you, what about what Penn Street (34:48) Yeah. steven vine (34:49) about pushback for you? Did anybody in your friend circle of friends did they did they Penn Street (34:55) yeah, I steven vine (34:56) say, I want you to keep drinking? Penn Street (34:58) yeah, I lost pretty much all of my friends and even my family. Because once I quit drinking and I really got focused on being an independent, educated, working blind person. steven vine (35:18) Yes. Penn Street (35:19) they I did not fit into their mold that they had put me in, which is the fragile, you know, sick child, right? I was out traveling the world and I was, I wasn't home all the time, you know, kind of thing. I didn't need taken care of anymore because I was taking care of myself. So even my family, it took a long, long, long time. for us to have a healthy relationship. But I really, I had to walk away from my friends because they were still in that cycle, right? They were still in steven vine (36:00) Yeah. Penn Street (36:01) the, and I, I knew for myself, was not strong enough to be around that 24-7 and steven vine (36:11) Yeah. Penn Street (36:12) keep my sobriety. And I love my sobriety. Like I really do. steven vine (36:18) So do I. Penn Street (36:19) Yeah, and I love my life. I would not have the life I have right now if, well, I would not have been alive. Health-wise, would steven vine (36:27) You would have deteriorated. Penn Street (36:29) have, yeah, I would never have made it much longer. steven vine (36:32) I I I find it so interesting, Penn, the whole process of the people that were in your life when you drank, and then the people that stuck around and were true friends and wanted to still be with you when you didn't want to drink anymore, when you eliminated it from Penn Street (36:50) Yeah. steven vine (36:51) your lifestyle. And I had some people that didn't want to spend time with me no longer. And then I had some people that wanted to spend more time with me because they Penn Street (37:01) that's wonderful. steven vine (37:02) They they didn't like it to begin with. And how about for you? You said earlier you lost all your friends. Is that something that you think most people when they abstain from alcohol and they make the change to sort of guard yourself and get ready? Because some people not may not decide to be by your side any Penn Street (37:10) Yeah. Is that something that you think most people, when they abstain from alcohol, and they make the change to sort of guard yourself and get ready because some people may not decide to be by yourself? steven vine (37:25) longer. Penn Street (37:26) Yeah, but I think it's a two way street. You know, I think I saw some of them for what they were, right? Like, I didn't really have a friendship with them. We partied, we partied together. But steven vine (37:38) Right. It was superficial. Penn Street (37:41) yeah, we never like went out for coffee and talked about our jobs or we never, you know, or any steven vine (37:48) Yeah. Penn Street (37:49) or relationships, things like we just we partied. That's what we did. And so when you know, and it did take me several years before I felt comfortable going and being in a bar or in a party situation, but now I do. I do tend to. usually only like this evening, I have this event I'm going to with some friends, and it's all women, and they're going to be drinking wine even before they get there. Right. So and I I've already in my head said, Well, I'm to stay for the first hour, hour and a half. Because then after that, a lot of times, it's not any fun anymore. steven vine (38:35) Yeah. Penn Street (38:35) They're they're just being stupid drunk, right. And, and if you're not stupid drunk, it's You see it for what it actually is. It's, it's, yeah. steven vine (38:45) Do you do do you have any n you know, we talked earlier and you you talked about how a lot of the alcohol consumption that you had, you didn't really like the taste. Penn Street (38:57) I don't. steven vine (38:59) And I I think that's a real common comment. I think a lot of people out there, tell me if I'm wrong, they're fooling themselves when they get too loaded and drink too much. They're actually doing something they don't even like. You know? Penn Street (39:16) Exactly. Yeah. And you gave a good comment. Like you don't drink anything you don't like the taste of and you don't eat anything you don't like the taste. I think steven vine (39:24) No. Penn Street (39:25) that's, that's awesome. And well, and if I mean, when I think back at my first drink, It was beer, which I never liked the taste of beer. I know people steven vine (39:39) Right. Penn Street (39:39) out there are beer connoisseurs. steven vine (39:42) Yes, yes, yes. Penn Street (39:43) I don't even like non-alcoholic beer, because it still tastes like beer. But steven vine (39:47) Right. Right, right. Penn Street (39:50) I remember, my gosh, what is the big deal about this stuff? It's so forbidden, because I started drinking before I was old enough to drink. And I was like, why do people Why do adults like this? But then of course, the inebriation kicks in, That numbing steven vine (40:11) Of course. Penn Street (40:11) feeling. And I was like, this is why they do it. So even that first night that I got drunk, the very first night, I associated it with the feeling, not the taste, you know? steven vine (40:28) And there's also it's correlated as well in my eyes through peer pressure. People saying, Penn Street (40:34) Yes. steven vine (40:36) have another drink, let's go to this bar, Penn Street (40:37) Yeah. steven vine (40:39) let's do that. And it's a whole momentum thing of numbing yourself. And you gotta get out of that routine if you don't want to do it anymore, right? And so you Penn Street (40:49) Yeah, absolutely. steven vine (40:50) you turn around and you don't go to those bars anymore because that's not what you want, and you don't go to those bars. with those people anymore because that's something they want to do and you're choosing you're choosing not to do so. So we we've got to wrap things up fairly quickly here and I Penn Street (41:02) Yeah. Right. steven vine (41:10) I I have another idea. Do you do you have Penn Street (41:13) Yeah. steven vine (41:13) anything anything you want to bring to the table from your personal experience? And you've got a lot about sort of positive ideas or outlooks That may help somebody that's struggling with this? Penn Street (41:31) Yeah. And is I don't ever want to discredit the how hard it is. And, but if you really, if you can look at addiction, just like any other kind of health issue, and now through the FDA, it is considered a health condition, steven vine (41:52) Yes. Penn Street (41:53) is that there is no shame. There's no, just like your blindness, right? Like you shouldn't be ashamed of your disability, but that's a lot easier to say than to believe. And I think it, you know, that old saying is one day at a time. Sometimes it's one minute at a time. Sometimes it's one hour at a time. Sometimes, steven vine (42:17) Right. Penn Street (42:18) yeah, one day sometimes is too big because even, even now, and Steven and I've talked about this is the reason that I do not drink socially. And I know a lot of people that are recovering alcoholics and they're like Steven, they can drink every once in a while. I know I can't do that because when I'm having my dark days and I have plenty of them, that is what first thing that enters my head is, man, if I had some whiskey or if I had a bottle of wine, this steven vine (42:53) Yeah. Penn Street (42:55) would feel so much better. And it wouldn't, I mean, it might feel better, but the problem is still gonna be there. So it's... If you feel that addiction is holding you back or it's steven vine (43:11) Impeding. Penn Street (43:12) impeding, making the darkness darker, reach out. There are so many free ways, AA, NA, all of those groups. It's absolutely free to go to it. And if you go to a group and you don't like it, there's another one right around the corner. But find, I call it finding your tribe. It's just like with my blindness, once I found my tribe, which Steven is part of that tribe, steven vine (43:43) Mm-hmm. Penn Street (43:44) my whole outlook with blindness just exploded. I'm steven vine (43:48) Of course. Penn Street (43:49) not embarrassed about it. Well, it's the same thing with addiction. When you find your tribe, again, Steven's part of that tribe. steven vine (43:58) Yeah. Penn Street (43:59) It's you talk about it and it really is somebody who's going to understand. So it's that holding it in and being ashamed and keeping it to yourself. That is that that is going to be the downfall where sharing it, know, sharing it with people you trust, finding somebody to talk to about it. That's that's the first step, because that. That first step is the absolute hardest. steven vine (44:30) If I may, for me, the advice that I would loosely Penn Street (44:33) Yeah. steven vine (44:34) suggest out there is there's nothing wrong with spending some time by yourself and get Penn Street (44:41) yes. steven vine (44:41) getting to know yourself, right? But there is a line where if you're alone too much and you're getting into the isolation term of your life, that can be dangerous. And we are social animals. And If you haven't spoken to somebody for it's getting to be too long of a period of time, pick up the phone, get on the internet, do whatever it takes to converse with somebody. And sometimes that person may not be talking. They're only listening to you. That's just as important as someone less talking to you as well, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Penn Street (45:24) It does. does. steven vine (45:27) Okay, well, you know, we've brought it up. This is the first step that we wanted to do together as talking about something that is very prevalent Penn Street (45:34) Yeah. steven vine (45:38) and is it's good to talk about the struggle with alcoholism and addictions, period. my email is with all these episodes. Penn is recording this on her YouTube station. Penn Street (45:40) Yeah, Yep. steven vine (45:55) channel, I guess you call it, Penn. And you can reach out to Penn if you want to talk to her. And you can reach out and talk to me. And I I will never turn a blind eye to someone. No pun intended. I will never never turn my back on anyone that needs some help. Okay. So Penn, I want to thank you today. I think this is a really good thing that we've done. I'm proud of Penn Street (46:13) That's right. Yes. steven vine (46:21) you. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of What we're doing and taking the energy to do so. And that's it Penn Street (46:29) Yeah. steven vine (46:30) for me, unless you would like to say any parting words. Penn Street (46:34) Just thank you, Steven, for what you're doing with your platform here on the podcast. You know, the lives that you are reaching, and you probably don't even know most of, you know, the ripple effect that you have out there, but you do. And you inspire me. Moses, my husband, my life partner. We talk about you frequently and how you inspire us to live our lives as best as we can. steven vine (47:04) I'm glad I have that effect. Thank you for recognizing Penn Street (47:05) So thank you. Thank you. steven vine (47:07) that. And I always appreciate your kind words. Penn Street (47:11) Absolutely. steven vine (47:12) Okay, everybody, that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. The Blind Chick (47:17) Wow, I have that was amazing. and I really want to do more of this collaboration. Steven, thank you so much for coming up with this idea. I think it was really, really fun. And I think that we touched on a lot of really important important parts of addiction in our own lives. so hopefully you guys found that helpful. I would love to do more episodes like this. So If you have a podcast and are interested in collaborating with the blind chick and would like to do a similar podcast, please reach out to me at feedback@aftersight.org I would love, love to really dive into this. I I had such a great time doing this with Steven, even though it's a topic that's hard to talk about. Steven was the per for perfect person to talk about. So I also want to, if you or somebody in your life is really struggling with addiction, you're not alone. Please, please reach out to your local Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous group. That's what they're there for. They're there to help us. Also, you can reach out and call the substance abuse. national hotline and that phone number is 1-800-662-4357. And so it's absolutely free, it's absolutely confidential, and somebody can talk with you and steer you in the right direction. Also, don't forget about the suicide hotline here in the United States, and that number is 988. So please take care of yourselves out there. Both of those numbers are manned 24 hours a day, 365 days out of the year. You're not alone. I want to thank Aftersight because without them, the blind chick would absolutely not be possible. And please remember them in your end of year giving. I know I'm going to keep saying that because I am the development director. here at Aftersight. So your dollars really do make a big difference. So and it doesn't matter how much. If you can give five bucks, that's wonderful because if 10 people give five bucks, that's fifty. So every dollar counts. so again you can go to Aftersight, learn more about Aftersight at aftersight.org and if you if you want to donate just hit the donate button and it'll take you to the platform. And remember To be kind to yourselves this week and find a way to be kind to somebody else. It's good for your soul.