Latest / Dadical / 1. The Best Thing a Dad Can Do: Love Their Mom | Michael Lamb

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1. The Best Thing a Dad Can Do: Love Their Mom | Michael Lamb · Dadical

• Seth Stoker: Okay, Mike, welcome to the Dadicle Podcast. excited to have you today. and just by way of a little introduction for the audience here, Mike is our first guest on the Dadical Podcast, on our inaugural episode, and and really excited to have you, Mike, and and and one of the reasons for that is is Mike's my uncle, and and so I I know Mike pretty well. and I've had the opportunity to observe him as as a father and and also seen the incredible kids that that he's raised and and because of that I've been really excited to chat with him about about fatherhood and the lessons that he's learned. and so Mike welcome welcome to the podcast. I'd love to have you before we dive in too deep just give us a little bit of background about you introduce us to your family that we can we can have some context going into the discussion. Mike Lamb: Sure. Thank you for the time and it's great to be with you and and great to be the the first guest on on this podcast. So yeah, my name is Mike Lamb, live here in San Antonio, Texas, and married my wife Sherry thirty almost two years ago now, and we have been blessed with four wonderful children, two boys and two girls. So Tristan is our oldest, Mackenzie, Sierra and Braden and they are all now out of the house and we are officially empty nesters here in San Antonio. But San Antonio's been a great place for us to enjoy raising our children. Sherry and I met in Utah as I got moved out there after some some mission service and she was from San Antonio and that's how we kind of ended up back here and it's been a great place to to raise our kiddos. We've loved it here and Enjoyed making our home base in Texas. I've worked for the last 26 years now in publishing. So I've I've basically done education sales and sales management, middle management has has been a great niche for me and done that for the last twenty six years. And now I am just a short period away from official retirement, just a couple weeks, as a matter of fact. So you catch me at a time when we'll be involved in a new transition into a different. phase of life. But yeah, I've I've I've loved it here in San Antonio. Feel very blessed for the the the work I've been able to do and you know, great to have the chance to talk about my work as a father as well, which is paramount to to anything else we've done. Seth Stoker: Yeah, yeah. Well well congratulations first of all on retirement. That's pretty exciting. And it sounds like you've got a couple of new phases that you're going into right now. obviously retirement's one of but you just became an empty nester. So tell me about that. How does that feel as you as you enter this new phase of fatherhood? Mike Lamb: Yeah, it's it's strange. I mean, I I feel like maybe I wasn't fully prepared and we can talk a little bit more about that as we go, but you know, we we had the type of home where we hosted a lot of events. We had kids over at our house all the time, and our kids have all been fairly social, and so it was common for us to have big get-togethers and gatherings at the house over time, and so When you go from from that and a lot of background noise to nobody living in the upstairs of my house, it's strange. And there is a weird quiet that you have to get used to. And so we you know we've found ourselves just turning the TV on at times to keep ourselves company and and have some background noise to fill that void. but at the flip but the the flip side of that is we've been able to just enjoy some f some freedom and some some quiet and rekindle a relationship as husband and wife that you you sometimes have a hard time doing when you are so focused on getting your kids raised and and get them, you know, where you feel like they're at a good place to to take on life and the next steps in their journey. Seth Stoker: Yeah, you know, that that's so interesting because I I know this is the topic is fatherhood, but I think I think a huge important component of fatherhood is your relationship with your spouse. And it seems like it seems like as your kids leave the house, you probably learn a lot about your relationship with your spouse or or at the same time maybe recognize the importance of maintaining that relationship with your spouse. And so maybe just a a a quick question I'd love to get your thoughts on is how have you You made sure to prioritize that relationship among the chaos of fatherhood. Mike Lamb: Hmm. That's a great question and and one that I I think is a balance that every every man has to try to find. And you know, I would say there either there are times where I feel like, man, I I really could have done a better job at that. But you know, what I have found is that you know, it is raising children is a premier focus, right, for us as as fathers and to try to balance that it it is it is a challenge to make sure that you maintain the foundation of what got you there and what what what made those kids a part of the journey in the first place. And you know what I would say is that over the last couple of years where we've become you know kind of official empty nesters, we've we realized the importance of of rekindling and and maybe coming up with new ways to connect as husband and wife. And so while you know there might have been better opportun opportunity to better focus on that along the way. What we have done well is we've come up with new things that we enjoy together. So my wife and I over the last few years we've started playing pickleball for instance. And and that has been a great new thing. We've you know because of that become friends with other you know couples and and so it's been a good thing socially. It's been a good thing just for us you know health wise. we've started going to concerts, which we never did really as we were younger, but we found some some passion and and shared interest in some country music artists that we love and enjoy and have made concerts a a part of our you know activity that we do together. And so there's just been new things that we have discovered that we love doing together and it's exciting. It's a it's actually really neat to try to to rekindle that and to see how you can come together over over time and it's it's been a invigoration I guess of our our love for each other which is a really neat thing to to experience. Seth Stoker: Nice. okay, last concert you went to, just for fun. Mike Lamb: Dylan Scott, maybe a lesser known country music artist, but he played in in Helodas Flores Country Store just about twenty minutes from us and he put on a really good concert. So if you haven't heard his music, he's really good. Seth Stoker: Nice, nice. I haven't, so I d I'll have to check it out. But all right, maybe let's zoom out a little bit because on this podcast, what our intent is is to talk to everyday fathers just like you or or or just like whoever's whoever might be listening. because we've all had experiences and challenges and and wins and losses and things like that that everybody can learn from. And so I want to zoom out and kind of dive, dive into your experience as a whole, and and and we'll we'll listen to your experience. influences and and learn from them. But I I wanted to start out and find out a little bit. I I think everybody's fatherhood journey it starts with the influences that they have in their lives. And so I'd love to understand maybe who do you consider to be the most impactful father figure in your life and and tell me a little bit about why. Mike Lamb: Sure. I think for me it's it's a little bit divided. So if if I can, you know, split the difference here a little bit, I would say there were two. There are two individuals that were most impactful. And and the first being my my biological father. and then the second would be my father in law. And so I almost feel like I've had kind of two distinct experiences with key father figures in my life and and I I will say that when it comes to my biological father, I learn both good and bad things. But you can take the bad and make them turn them into a good experience and in a way to direct your own path, right? And so there are certain things that I learned that I cherish from my biological father. Like some things that I just do naturally, like When when when I was young, my dad would always make sure, like if we went fishing, which was a passion of his, and we would go fishing together, and he would just always make sure like that I had the very best fishing pole, that I had the best lures, that I was given the best opportunity to catch a fish. And I didn't even realize that was a thing I had learned from him until later in life when I just naturally did that. And I was thankful to realize and reflect back that that was something he had done and that I experienced and just embodied later as a father. So that was a gr a really good thing. On the flip side, I would say my biological father you know, he had some challenges in his own path, and and there were things that he did that did not prioritize family that were deeply impactful and hard. for our for our family. And so I wanted to change my own path in a way that, you know, maybe didn't impact my own family that way. And so you know one of the one of the lighter things I guess I was I would say is when he would come home from a day at work, my dad would typically just go lay on the couch and he'd ask for a a glass of ice water which one of the kids would go get and provide for him and he would Lay on the couch and and enjoy, you know, getting, I guess, relaxed from the day. Well, my mom's job wasn't done. She obviously still had things to do. And I didn't I didn't love that. I I wanted to be different than that. And so my home has looked far different than that. We, you know, have made sure that teamwork is a twenty four seven job. Because her job doesn't stop and my job shouldn't stop just because I got home from work. So I've made it an effort to try to be an equal partner in the chores and in in the you know daily activities around the house. And so the I guess that would highlight a good and bad way my own father impacted me, but how I've tried to channel it for good. secondly, my father-in-law, Gary Payne, and we've you know, he's been gone for several years now, but Gary was a wonderful man. And you know, he I I can almost get choked up talking about him because he just embodied wisdom and and goodness. And he he impacted me in a lot of ways. So, you know, first of all, service. He was he was wonderful about giving service and he would say I'd rather dig a ditch Than give a presentation or a talk anytime. And that's really who he was. He was happy to go help and grab a shovel and dig in and help, literally and figuratively. He also taught me a lot about just being a man and about being a father. You know, my my parents divorced when I was in middle school. And so there were some key moments in life where I just did not have that father figure around. And so maybe there were some things that I could have, you know, been able to be taught that I that I missed that Gary was able to help me dig in on and and and learn on the back end. He taught me a lot about finances, which my dad did not know. I mean, and you can't teach what you don't know, right? And so my dad, you know, always kind of lived in a paycheck to paycheck environment. And Gary, my father-in-law, is is You know, we were married young. My I was twenty three and Sherry was twenty-two. And he asked me very early on, Hey, do you want to be wealthy? And I said, Sure. I mean, who who wouldn't want to be wealthy? We all want to be wealthy. And he said, Well then, do you have the discipline to be wealthy? I said, Well, I I think so. He's like, Okay, I'll tell you how to do it. It's not a secret, but you gotta have the discipline to do it. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mike Lamb: It's not about how much you make, it's about what you do with what you make. And he said, Let's talk, let's talk about retirement. I'm like, I'm I'm 23 years old, and you want to talk to me about retirement? He said, Yeah, I do. And so that's when I started to learn about what 401ks are and what IRAs are, and about what you know count compounding interest ends up being over time, and things that I had no earthly clue about as a young man. But he did and he was able to lay out a path that has certainly blessed us and and have seen some of his wisdom come to fruition over time and that I've been deeply grateful for. Seth Stoker: So Mike, what's interesting to me about that is it sounds like first of all, like you're a father in law, right? and I imagine that you know, I have a fifteen year old daughter who turns sixteen in November. and the idea of you know, navigating Mike Lamb: Yeah. Seth Stoker: Father in lawhood sounds terrifying to me, but because because you wanna you wanna love the the kid and at the same time you're you're is this guy good enough for my daughter? You know, there's a lot of competing thoughts there, I'm sure. And I imagine Gary was dealing with many of the same thoughts, but at the same time it seems like he recognized that you needed to like like that he had an opportunity to teach you and and that you would benefit from that. And I I guess I would love to hear a little bit more about how you feel like he navigated those challenges. challenges with welcome welcoming a new person into the family that i is is is brand new and grew up differently and things like that. Maybe you don't fully trust them yet, but at the same time taking that opportunity to mentorship because or or provide mentorship because that's huge. Mike Lamb: It is. Yeah, it it's funny you mentioned being a father in law and how challenging or different that experience is. And it is. I mean, the the truth is, I have had to remind myself who I was when Gary so willingly accepted me into the family. 'Cause I I literally had nothing. I had a little bit of college experience. I had no idea what I wanted to do or be professionally long term. No real clear career path. what I did have was the willingness to work hard. So I had drive, and I was coachable. I was willing to be coached. And I think he recognized that and always appreciated that, which made our relationship meaningful and and easier over time. And so I think you know, remembering that. Has been helpful for me as a reminder when maybe I'm thinking to myself how nobody's good enough for my own daughter, especially. You know, I mean, it's easy to think that way as a dad. but remembering who I was and that mentorship and how much it meant to me has been a big part of accepting and trying to embody as much of that as I can into my own experience. Seth Stoker: Was there any friction as a new son in law that you can remember? Mike Lamb: I I wouldn't say friction. It was it was just you know understanding that everybody is a product of their own environment, right? They we are all a product of our upbringing and the environment. And so you know, my son-in-law's experience of of his upbringing is far different than my daughter's, right? And so Understanding how those can mesh together and how I as a father-in-law need to give the distance and respect necessary to let them understand and determine their own path, but also try to mentor as much as that door is open for mentorship. That's a delicate balance that you have to strike. And one that I'm still learning because you know I I st I still have other in laws that will be added to the mix over time. I've got two children that are yet to marry, one's engaged, one one not not yet. But I'm still learning that part of the equation and frankly, it's a work in progress. Seth Stoker: Well I think the cool thing about your story is you know, obviously your your dad had a massive bit massive impact on you, but I think we think a lot about our responsibility or the opportunity for for mentorship that we have as fathers. we don't necessarily think about the opportunity that we'll have or even the responsibility that we'll have to provide the same to you know the spouses of our children and th and things like that. And that's a that's a really interesting concept because it seems like Gary recognized that opportunity and look at the impact that he had on you and and potentially on your family and and and everything else. that's not that's not necessarily even something that crossed my mind as I as I even started having these discussions. Mike Lamb: Yeah, I I think that I will forever be grateful for the way that I feel like I was blessed with a a father on the the second half of of my own experience in in life. And so I you know, Gary never intended to be a you know, a replacement father or for lack of a better term, but he was always willing to do whatever I needed to to help me. And coach me along the way. And so recognizing his wisdom and experience in life and how rich that was, he was a regular go-to for me because I just appreciated so much that almost any problem we came to him with, he had a good answer for. And if he didn't, he knew where to go for it and would be very willing to coach us in that direction. And so yeah, I think that that experience gives me a lot of motivation to try to do as much as that of that as I can with my own. Seth Stoker: okay, you you have those experiences with both your father and your father in law, and now it's time for you to become a dad. What what's your plan? Like like what what did you take from from those experiences to kind of shape who you felt like you would be as a father? Mike Lamb: Yeah, I I wanted you know, you you have an idea of what fatherhood is going to be. And and then you you know, then there's the reality of of okay. I have to make sure that I'm sharing the responsibility well with my spouse who, you know, we we we determined early on that we wanted to try to have Sherry home with the kids. And I know that's not the experience everybody gets to have. We were committed early on. There were there were two things that we actually talked about early on in our marriage. We wanted two goals to come to fruition. Number one, we wanted Sherry to be able to stay home and be a stay-at-home mom because we both were fortunate to have that environment for the most part in our own childhood and we knew how impactful that could be. Secondly, I wanted to retire at fifty five years old. So we we wanted to help each other reach those goals. And so that was kind of an early foundation that we agreed upon. And then you know then I had to take on my career path and then you know be able to try to mesh being a father and you know make sure I recognized and maintained that as my priority while also balancing who I knew I needed to be professionally in order to meet that goal of retirement at 55, that was a unique challenge and I think it is for every man. And and sometimes we can get so enmeshed in our career path that it becomes more definitive of who we are and and trying to trying to fight that off and make sure that the balance was maintained as a father myself has has been a a challenge that I didn't always get right, but feel thankful, you know, for the most part. on how that experience was in my own journey. Seth Stoker: Yeah, th that's interesting. To have your wife stay home the kids. Be and and you're right, like not everybody does have that opportunity. In fact, my wife worked nights for ten years in the in the emergency room to you know to help us get things up off the ground and and that meant sacrificing some time away from the family and things like that. but what impact do you feel like it had to be able to keep Sherry at home with the kids? Mike Lamb: Yeah, I think that they were just o blessed with a constant, you know, that there was a constant There was a constant reinforcement of activity, responsibility. I will say that my kids are supremely self-reliant at this point in life, and and that's you know a a a a blessing and sometimes a challenge all at the same time. But they are blessed, I think, with that because of the environment that primarily their mom. created. We had a culture of work in our home. And so one of the things I'm most proud of, frankly, of my kids is none of them are scared of work because it has been an it has been an example for them from day one. So there was an attempt to focus in on reading and and and making sure they were taking care of their their homework that they were involved in extracurricular activities that there wasn't a focus in on technology and things that can maybe divert from what we felt was the most important growth in their lives. And so these are things that Sherry reinforced that you know I wouldn't have been able to do because of you know my involvement at work and not having that that time with them that I am very thankful for. Seth Stoker: So I obviously teaching them hard work was an important part of what you guys decided was gonna be priorities for you with your kids. What about like what specifically did you have in mind that, hey, these are the things that I wanna teach my kids as a father? Mike Lamb: Mm-hmm. Well, for me, faith has been at the center of how we built our relationship and how we wanted our our kids to grow up. And so we decided early on that we wanted, you know, to make sure that they had a a home that was based on spirituality. And so the belief that that foundation would serve them throughout all their challenges and problems in life was a primary motivator for us. And so we did things that would reinforce that foundation as much as possible. And so we we've gone to church as a family since they were all young. And so culturally it just became a part of who we were as a family to go to church. It wasn't just that though, it was also prayers of thanks of of gratitude before each meal and at it and at night as a family. And there was something supremely powerful and and bonding to do that together. there was there was scripture study and talk about you know, gospel stories that were also a part of our culture at home. And so doing these things I think helped to just lay a foundation that, you know, we felt could serve them well throughout their own experience and challenges in life. was a focus and and something that we feel like for the most part we were blessed to do. Seth Stoker: You know, I I I maybe maybe just a quick follow up is how often do you guys pray together or did you pray together when they were in the home? Mike Lamb: It it was at least it was at least three times a day for you know, morning, you know, breakfast a lot of time, you know, prayer, for for for our meals and then dinner prayers and then evening family get together before we all go to bed prayers. So at least three times a day, sometimes more, and more times than not we would have that scripture study at night where there was just a short lesson about spirituality or gospel learning that was shared together and and then our our nighttime prayer. Seth Stoker: You know, it it's interesting because as your kids get older, it gets harder and harder and harder to have everybody together, to to have prayer together or meals together and things like that. And one thing that that Jill and I found Jill's my wife, one thing that that we found as parents is is we noticed a period of time where it felt like there was a lot of like contention in our home. Our kids weren't getting along very well. They were saying mean things about each other and and things like that. And so one thing that we implemented that actually has Been a huge blessing for our family is we when we get together for our family prayers in the evening. whoever's turn it is to say the prayer, everybody in the family goes around and says one thing that they love about that person before they say the prayer, and then that person has to say one thing that they love about themselves. And it's interesting because you would think it's just a a dumb cheesy thing, you know, like it's just a small thing. And yet we definitely recognize the difference in our home of the way our kids. Talk to each other and treat each other and things like that of when we were doing that and when we weren't. There came a point actually where we stopped. We kind of felt like maybe we had grown out of it a little bit, you know. And immediately I felt like more contention was introduced back into the home. The kids were were fighting and and not being you know loving to each other or kind to each other or whatever. And so we actually instituted it back. And it it's funny because my kids are they're not as old as your kids now, but I've got 13. Year old, 15-year-old, and a almost 19-year-old. And we still we still do that to this day. And it's been such a huge blessing for our family. And I think that's one thing that you have to consider as a parent is not only all right, what am I going to teach them and things like that, but also what is our home going to feel like? Because these kids go to school, they go to work, and and they're hanging out with with other kids who may have the same values as your family, may not. But I I'm a firm believer in the fact that the home has to be some sort of a refuge for them from it has to feel different than than other places that they go. And and they it has to be a place where they feel is is safe and and comfortable and and things like that. And so I guess maybe maybe if you could share a little bit more about how it how you guys were intentional about creating the right environment in your home. Mike Lamb: Sure, thank you. I love that question. you know, for us it was you know, do do some of those basic spiritual foundational things, and and included in that was the commitment to have what we call a family home evening, which is basically a night per week, mostly Monday nights, that we just kind of set aside as a dedicated family night to do something that was just family and and spiritually oriented, right? And so sometimes it would be an activity that we would all go out and do. Other times there was a a specific lesson and and a lot of times I would try to build an an an object lesson of some kind to that because that seemed to to hit home with them, especially as they were younger. And so I I love your example of of sharing those good things about each other that you love before prayer because that Those to me are the kinds of impactful things that they will carry with them forever. And so there were some moments like that in in bringing up our own kids that I know are distinctly impactful because they have said so. You know, so for instance, in one of those family evening lessons, we talked about rock or play-doh, and I had a a rock and a piece of play-doh, and we talked about how. Our hearts can be molded and and and if they are malleable can be shaped by our savior. And and if we stay coachable and willing to take advice and be the type of person that will change as needed, then we are more like the Play-Doh. But if we are hard-hearted and and you know we let pride get in the way, then we're we're more like the rock. And so It it was funny that that simple lesson for some reason stuck more heavily than some of the others that I taught. And there was a common theme, you know, when when things kinda got a little bit challenging or maybe there was some contention, Rocker Play-Doh, if that was mentioned, we knew exactly what it meant and that maybe we needed to take a look about how we were handling the situation and that you know, was something that was a common theme. There was another one that was I had a number of words that were written out on on strips and printed out and we had a a little trash can and a little treasure box. And the word we would read and the question was was this a trash word or a treasure word? And and and so they would, you know quickly understand if it was a good word or a bad word. It wasn't anything overtly bad, but it was bad enough that they knew. And so they would put the bad ones in the tra in the trash and they'd put the good ones in the treasure. But it was also one of these things that they would know long term. They would talk about trash or treasure, trash or treasure. It was like they would remind each other because they remembered that lesson. And so these were things that I was thankful that first of all we committed as a family to do. And and secondly, I I never as a father wanted Sherry to feel like she had to carry the load spiritually. And so the fact that you know, I was happy to take on the the the family evenings like that and and try to be at the forefront of of the lesson. I know she supremely appreciated and has mentioned throughout time. And so those were some things that Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mike Lamb: stand out to me as as ways that we were committed to create that culture like you were talking about. Seth Stoker: I I love that that that so i it seems like some of the things that you don't plan necessarily or or or just things that you do some somehow become like weird traditions in in your family, right? Like the trash treasure thing or you know, we've got we've got a bunch of in in fact my my kids have had so many nicknames evolve over the years because of the the dumb you know, dumb nicknames that we give each other and stuff like that. And it's just funny how those things stick, but it it kinda makes me think of how important it is Is that we are deliberate about creating some of these things and you don't know what's gonna stick. But if you're not deliberately creating positive lessons, teaching, things like that, then the question is what sticks, right? Is it is it not treating each other with love and respect? Is it is it being kind of awful to each other and things like that? Like if if you're not really deliberate about about the good things, then the bad is kind of what becomes the norm or or or the tradition or the things that that your kids carry on and not because of them but but but but because of what we allowed and so I'm I I'm curious what your thoughts are there. Mike Lamb: Yeah, I think that you know, if we are not intentional or deliberate as parents, then the world is so full of distraction, right? And and especially now. you know, I'm I'm lucky enough to where you know, I raised my kids in in a time when the digital distraction was has was just becoming a big thing, right? And and while it was definitely there, you know, it wasn't to the extent that I believe it is now or will continue to be over time. And so yeah, there are so many ways that I I think that influences and impact of the world can be felt and and the the idea was really worrisome to us that they would in in some ways define themselves by what they might see or feedback they might get on social media and you know that I think is a a a huge challenge and obstacle for parents today. And so trying to be able to balance that versus what you know and who you know they are and making sure they understand that, I think is a primary responsibility for us as parents. And if we are not deliberate about it, then that can go off the rails pretty quick. Seth Stoker: Well, Mike, I'm not sure there's a bigger challenge. I mean, I'm sure maybe there is, but that's a huge challenge for any parent right now is dealing with, okay. You know, I want to be able to get a hold of my kid and things like that. And so like having a phone these days seems to make sense for most kids, but at the same time, how do I manage that in a way that doesn't allow it to consume you know, consume their attention, consume their their thoughts, their you know, suck away any pro productivity they have, and and not to mention, you know, different things that they can get into from having access to to everything on their phones. And so I guess my question would be, how did you guys manage that? Yeah. Mike Lamb: Yeah, great question. And one that I believe is is maybe, like you say, the biggest challenge that parents have to deal with. So I am not going to sit here and pretend to tell you that we got it all right. There are some things that we worked on and agreed to early on that were rules of the home. And so so when the student went when the sorry, when our kiddos came home, they knew that first of all we we didn't allow any Seth Stoker: Like what? Mike Lamb: electronic device in their bedrooms. So they they had them in common areas. so they didn't even take them upstairs. Seth Stoker: Just just to just to have you elaborate here, I'll I'll play dumb. Why? Mike Lamb: it it was more so to make sure their time was spent productively, I I think. But there was also obviously the concern that you know, anything that's that's done in secret or private can potentially go off the rails and and be something down you know, lead them down a path that we were worried they might go on. And and you know, as a young person, sometimes they don't even know. where those paths are and and how they can you know get take them down a a negative path or direction. And so trying to help them understand that is is an opportunity and a challenge, but something that we just felt like, okay, we want to try to make sure that that their digital time is in a common area was important to us. We tried to put an equal amount of reading into the equation that they might have on digital devices because we believe in the the just the skill of reading and that that needed to be something that we tried to reinforce as parents. Seth Stoker: What what does that mean? does that mean you had like they had to read to earn screen time or a certain portion of their screen time was reading? What do mean by that? Mike Lamb: They in in our environment they had to they had to read in order to earn a certain amount of screen time. And I think that that equation maybe shifted over time a little bit on what it meant, but it was it was more so meant to to to to highlight the importance of of reading and and making sure they were broadening their minds in positive ways. Seth Stoker: Okay. Yeah. And not just dulling their minds on on social media, right? Mike Lamb: That's right. That's right. That's right. Seth Stoker: I love that. Okay, so no dad bats a thousand. Can you it w as you look back at your time as a father, is there a an experience that sticks out to you you're like, Man, I wish I could have that one back? Mike Lamb: Yeah, so that's a great question. And I mean I think that there are a lot of things I would go back and change. No, you're right. I mean hindsight is always 2020. And I think that there are moments that I recognize that I just could have been more patient. And so I think that if I could go back, I would say, hey. Don't sweat the small stuff quite as much. Be the type of dad that doesn't overreact if things are shared because you want to be the kind of dad that your kiddos are comfortable going to with whatever problem or issue. And the more you foster an environment of patience and understanding, the more likely they will be to continue to share. And so well because they Seth Stoker: Why? Mike Lamb: they they don't want to feel judged or admonished or you know that that every problem would be met with frustration and so that is something I feel like I did okay on but I could have done better on. Seth Stoker: Okay. Okay. So a and it sounds like what you're saying is is if they feel like every single th like any time they screw up or or maybe have a challenge or whatever and they bring that to you, if you overreact, then at some point the decision's gonna be it's not worth bringing up to dad because he's just gonna get pissed. Is that is that kinda what you're saying? Mike Lamb: Totally. Yeah, you totally nailed it there. And so, you know, maybe being better at understanding the gravity of what they might be sharing in the moment and and then you know, allowing myself to take a deep breath and ease into my response would have been a smarter approach. Seth Stoker: Yeah. It makes me think of the other day we were playing frisbee golf as a family and my daughter has this bad habit of she'll throw the frisbee and it'll be a bad one. And so she immediately grabs another frisbee and throws it. And she threw hers and it was a bad one and so I i it was it was my turn to go and I was I was walking in front of where she was and next thing I know I just get just get cracked by a disc in the back of the head because I didn't know she was throwing another one in and it it's so hard. Like I I I probably could have reacted a little bit better. I I I caught myself pretty quickly, but my immediate reaction was, What are you doing? You know? And it it's so hard. it takes discipline, kind of like kinda like Gary was teaching you with finances. Like it takes discipline to take a deep breath and be like, all right, i i it's okay. Like there's there's bigger bigger things at play here than just how I react in this moment, so I gotta be careful. But I love what you're saying about your kids being willing to you making an environment that's safe so that your kids feel comfortable talking to you. it's funny our our 19 year old son almost 19 year old son Jackson he he's when he gets home from hanging out and we're still up, he'll come in and and chat with us and and and talk to us about the you know the night or or or or that sort of thing and he's pretty good about about sharing with us what's what's on his mind and things like that. And that's always something that I've I've that's really important to me is that that my kids feel comfortable doing that. And it sounds like it sounds like you've experienced something similar, but I don't think sometimes I wonder if parents realize how important it is that your kids feel comfortable talking to you about whatever's on their mind. Because look, they're gonna screw up. They're gonna have they're gonna make huge mistakes sometimes. And if all it takes is one time to fly off the handle, and they will they will shut down communication with you, and that's the worst thing that can happen because they need you, like they need to be able to communicate with you. So I I love that that was a priority for you. let's let's rewind to you as a brand new dad. You're now you you you've got all this experience, you y all your kids are now grown. What would you go back and tell yourself as a new dad? What advice would you give yourself? Mike Lamb: Mm. Yeah, that's a good question. I think that what I would probably say is It's okay to put the computer down quicker. you know, I I worked a job that required a lot of time. and and it wasn't over nine to five. I mean I I I I had a lot of follow-up that needed to be done to create the successful career path that I wanted. it required time after hours and and so That was the time when my kids were home and when there would be, you know, moments to go ahead and and toss the ball or or you know play a game or or just listen like we're talking about in talking with them. And I would be even better or I would be even quicker to put the computer down and relish those moments and just savor the moment because I there's never an email. an email important enough as that moment might be to savor and enjoy with your kids. And as we're talking about communication with them and how that looks, I mean every kid is different. Some kids are very communicative and quick to share with you what's going on with their day. Others, you just get very select snippets of time and if you're not intentional with that moment, you might miss out. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mike Lamb: like you're talking about moving forward. And so just being a little bit more intentional at those times and moments, I would probably counsel myself to take advantage of and savor because those are the moments that you're gonna relish long term. Seth Stoker: It i it's you always hear that it goes by too fast, but I I imagine in your stage right now you're probably feeling it more than anybody else. Mike Lamb: Yeah, I mean I I get, you know, c occasional reminders on social media myself about things we were doing ten years ago. And if you look at the amount of life experience that has happened in those ten years, you it's easy to be shocked at how much has changed in in a short five to seven to ten year period. And so yeah, I mean, I've got kiddos that are now grown and creating families of their own and And now I'm on to to grandkids in my life and and y you know, things that you just do not think about. I mean, I still feel like in my mind I'm a young man, even though my body's, you know, not not there, you know, why like I'd want it to be. But yeah, I I am amazed at how fast life can go. So, you know, I remember being that young person's and w where these older people were saying, Hey, hold on to it and enjoy it because it goes by so fast and kinda laughing off a little bit, but now I'm that guy telling that to the younger people because it's so true. Seth Stoker: Yeah. th that does pose an interesting situation that you're in now where when we talk about fatherhood, a lot of times we picture the time with kids in the home and things like that, but it's very clear that fatherhood does not end or your your responsibilities or or challenges as a father don't end when your kids move out of the home. Now you're parenting adults. ta talk to me about that. Did you how how does this line up with what you anticipated as your kids got older? Mike Lamb: That may be the the best question that you have asked, and and they've all been good, but I d I will say that because it has been the most challenging and the the part of fatherhood I believe I was least prepared for. So I I I don't know exactly why, but you think you know, for me, I I thought about fatherhood definitely about you know in the in the time That they were in the home. I mean, that is what was most prominent in my mind as I thought about fatherhood and the most impactful. And I believe that it is the most impactful in just kind of laying that foundation. But it is far from the end. And I guess I never believed that it was the end, but but maybe I didn't comprehend how much fathering would still need to happen and how challenging that would be because the windows. to impact become smaller. And the the need to rely on the foundation you set and the independence and self-reliance that you want them to have needs to kick in. And so it's a it's a unique challenge of letting them experience life even if that means they swing and miss just like we did when we were younger. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Mike Lamb: And just letting that happen and waiting for those windows of opportunity to influence and letting them come to you and and be able to be patient in that process has been a unique experience and challenge, one that I'm still working on. Seth Stoker: Yeah, because if if you push too hard or try to get too involved and things like that, I mean they're they're adults and they consider themselves adults. And so there's a world where where if you push too hard, you push them away, right? And at the same time, they they definitely need your influence. And they've never done this before. They're in a crucial period of their life. And so how do you find the balance there? Mike Lamb: so I think that that is also very reliant, you know, very much determined by each kid and their coachability. So each child has a different willingness to take advice or ask for advice. And so you know, trying to not interject opinion too frequently unless it's asked for is a big part of that. And so I there are times where you you just feel that it's time to interject opinion because you feel like there's maybe a danger in the path that they're choosing. And and so that you have to rely on, you know, your intuition and and for for us motivation by how we feel prompted by the spirit to to interject that opinion and and at what time to do so. But mostly it's you need to wait. For them to ask for it. And you know, the the the opportunity for patience is is there constantly because sometimes you wish they asked a little bit more. but if if if you're not waiting for them to ask for it, then you have the potential to just be a nag and for that distance to become more part of the equation that you're trying so hard to avoid. Seth Stoker: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it makes me think too, c kind of along with what you're saying. At the end of the day, when when a kid lives under your roof or or or when when when they're not an adult, it's a lot easier to have a certain level of influence and and even a certain level of control, right? Like, hey, you may want to go somewhere, but you're not using the car because you lost privileges or whatever the case may be. Like you you can have that type of influence as a father. and then they become adults, they move out of the house, whatever. And You can't make decisions for them anymore. You can't even like you can't you have no control at that point and you and you shouldn't. But i it kind of like you said, they have to you have to let them fail at times and things like that. But I guess maybe my question is is is as we as we look at this stage where they're young adults and they're making their own decisions and and hope hoping that you're hoping that they make the right ones, I guess how does that change the way you You look back at the time that you had them in the home and the foundations that you're laying and things like that. Because all the d like who they are now, largely, at least to some degree, everybody's their their own person. You could do everything right as a parent, and kids could still, you know, go whatever way they're gonna go, So if that's the case, then how do you view the importance of the time that they have in the home, considering that that largely shapes what happens or or has a huge infl influence on who they become once they're outside of the home? Mike Lamb: Yeah, I I mean it it's helpful to think, you know, back to the foundation that you were trying to lay and to try to see if you can continue that moving forward. So I'll give you an example. When my oldest, Tristan, was a young boy. We were heading out to the ranch house to go fishing. Well, on the way out we decided to grab a treat. And as we stopped to grab a treat, Tristan chose black licorice as his treat. Well, I can't stand black licorice. And I I think it's gross. I mean it's very, very much debated, right? But I I thought I think it's gross, but you know what? That's me. And I realized, hey, I I need to be careful about telling him that that's gross because. Seth Stoker: it's an excellent choice. Mike Lamb: He might love black licorice. And so I let him choose black licorice and I just chose a couple of treats. And we went went and paid and got in the car and headed further towards the ranch. He opened up his black licorice and sure enough he thought it was disgusting. And so you know, and and we had the opportunity then to share other treats. But I but the the lesson there I I wanted to be careful about interjecting too much of my own opinion. Because I needed to let him become who he is. And and he might have loved black licorice and that was who he was and and I would need to embrace and support and and encourage that. And so th I guess that's just a small example of what I try now to maintain as they are adults. First of all, understand the gravity of the decision. In that moment, what kind of candy he chose was insignificant. To who he was going to be as a man, right? And so recognizing that is important. But as they get older, those decisions become more impactful. And so I think there's a balance of understanding the gravity of each decision and how much that means we need to interject opinion along the way to try to help and mold who they are, and to let them have that freedom also along the way to become who they are. Seth Stoker: You know, it reminds me of a video that I saw of a a man walking with with a really small son and they're and they're walking down this path and there's like a a rope across the path. And the dad goes and and steps right over the rope and the son gets up to the rope and kind of like it it's a really young kid, like a toddler, and and he's he's kind of like trying to figure out how to get around the rope and he starts crying. He's telling telling his dad to to come back and help him, you know, and his dad's just like, come on. And and his dad even at one point like goes about, you know, 20 feet ahead and just sits down and waits. And he's not coming to he's not coming to move the rope for the kid. He's not, you know, removing it. All together, he's not lifting the kid up over. and eventually the kid ends up figuring it out. He he climbs over, and as soon as he gets over the rope, the dad stands up and claps and is excited for him and gives him a hug. And I think it's such a good reminder for us that as parents, like our job is not to remove obstacles from our kids. Like, in fact, if we if that's all we do, we are hindering our kids. and I feel like from a resilient standpoint. Standpoint, like our kids are facing challenges that we never even faced and may never face, you know what I mean? And if we remove all of the obstacles, all of the friction for them as they grow up, then how are they gonna get around the obstacles that they face when they're older? And so I I think the good or I don't know if it was good and plenty, but the black licorice story is is a great great example of that. Like, yeah, he's gotta find out that it's gross on his own, even though it's not black licorice is delicious. But but I yeah I I I love that concept of not removing obstacles. That's not our job, and I think our default because we love our kids is we want to like we want to go like we we want them to be happy and so we want to make that easy for them, and sometimes the hardest thing allowing them to go through the hardest thing is the best thing that we can do for them because that's how they learn and that's how they prepare themselves, and so love that. Okay, so Mike Lamb: Mm. Seth Stoker: 50 years from now, unfortunately, Mike, I I I know you're a healthy guy. I played basketball with you a little while back. Your body's not not as old as you say it is, but Mike's long gone at that point. And let's say your kids are are describing you as a father. What do you hope they say? Mike Lamb: man, that's a good question. And you know, I think I would love for them to say they knew that their dad loved the gospel and loved their mother. I think that if if I could let that be a legacy, then that would be enough for them to. maybe try to emulate in some form or fashion in their own lives and and and in their own experience and own families. you know there was there was one point in my life where Sierra, my youngest daughter, she she said to me and gave me maybe the biggest comp one of the biggest compliments I've ever had in my life when she said, Dad, sorry, I'm gonna get a little choked up on this when she said, Dad, I wanna marry a man who treats me the way you treat Mo And that was One of the most wonderful things I think she didn't realize it, but one of the most wonderful things she could have said to me. And so if they can remember things like that. I'll be happy and rest well. Seth Stoker: Mike, why do you think it's so important that they remember how you treated their mom? Mike Lamb: Because that is the most primary example of love that they'll have in real time in their lives. There's nothing more that they'll see on a consistent basis than how you love your spouse. And so if they can see love through the way we treated each other, then I think that there's no bigger impact we can have on them. Seth Stoker: Yeah. Especially when you consider you consider your daughters in in that specific instance. I think how what you're doing in the the way that you treat your wife, the relationship that you have with your wife is largely what your daughter will seek. She you're modeling what she expects out of a marriage as well. and so I I think I think it becomes critically important how we how we treat their mother. And you know, it it it's kind of funny My my oldest mentioned to to my brother one time that he knows that I take mom's side sometimes, even when I even when I may not agree with mom and I might be more on his side, I take her side anyway. And I'm like, Yeah, that's exactly right. Because that's my job. Like we're we're united and and we're gonna be united because that's the most important relationship in my life. And the kids benefit from that being the most important relationship in our lives. And so, I I love that. Okay. Okay, my last thing, i is there is there anything else that you feel like, you know, if i if you're talking to young fathers who are listening to this podcast, anything else you feel like they need to have in mind or or or anything else you would love to leave with them? Mike Lamb: Sure. I guess I would reiterate some of the points that I made earlier. you know, first of all, if if we can as men stay humble and stay coachable, I think that it will open us up for all sorts of opportunity, both for service and our career. I think that we need to allow ourselves to be vulnerable at times as well, better than maybe we we we are. I think that being committed to hard work will also be a key foundational principle that will impact your family and your kiddos for good. And I think sharing the load with your spouse equally and recognizing that her job is twenty four seven and yours should as well. And and so if you can adequately share that, you'll gain a deep respect from her, but also a recognition from your kiddos that that's the environment they should embody and foster long term in their homes. And I think those things have paid dividends and I hope will continue to pay dividends in my kids' lives. So I think those things are are all really smart to do. I think there's also an aspect of being Discipline financially that I feel supremely grateful for and that took sacrifice along the way. But if you can dedicate yourself to doing it, I can absolutely promise it's not rocket science to be well off and to be financially at peace. There's actually a pretty clear path to doing it, but you just have to be disciplined. And it can be on a salary of fifty thousand dollars a year or two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year. You can be successful financially if you're disciplined. And so all of those things I think are important and are things that have contributed to the the the blessings and and opportunities that we find ourselves with today. Seth Stoker: I think that's a great place to end it. Thanks, Mike. Mike Lamb: Thanks so much, Seth for the time. I appreciate it. Seth Stoker: That's it for today's episode of Dadicle. Thanks so much for listening. If this conversation resonated with you, please hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming. I'm going to drop new episodes every Wednesday, and you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen. And if you know a dad with a story worth telling, I would love to talk to them. So please get them in touch with me. Get me in touch with them. You can reach out to dadiclepodcast.com. Or if you're interested in being a guest yourself, I'd love to chat with you. Until next time, don't sleepwalk through fatherhood. Let's be daddy.