Latest / Beheaded / The Sayre Slayer of New Jersey | Antoine Le Blanc

Transcript

The Sayre Slayer of New Jersey | Antoine Le Blanc · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_04: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to season seven, episode seven.
0:08
SPEAKER_04: I'm Megan Moore.
0:09
SPEAKER_04: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_04: We're back, baby.
0:12
SPEAKER_04: We are back.
0:13
SPEAKER_04: I, to be honest, thought that was gonna be a longer hiatus.
0:16
SPEAKER_04: Tumorless and back.
0:18
SPEAKER_04: You're tumorless and gorgeous, and you're back.
0:21
SPEAKER_04: How do you feel?
0:22
SPEAKER_05: And I look normal.
0:23
SPEAKER_04: You look totally normal.
0:24
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm disappointed.
0:26
SPEAKER_04: I wanted you to kind of look like a troll, to be honest.
0:29
SPEAKER_05: Not in a bad way.
0:30
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
0:30
SPEAKER_05: That's a true friend.
0:32
SPEAKER_05: Like I just expected more.
0:34
SPEAKER_05: I thought I was gonna have a gnarly neck scar.
0:38
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
0:38
SPEAKER_05: I really did.
0:39
SPEAKER_05: I was prepared for that.
0:40
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_05: I don't.
0:41
SPEAKER_05: I have no neck scar.
0:43
SPEAKER_04: I was like prepared to tell you compliments.
0:45
SPEAKER_05: Like I was prepared to be like you look fine, honey.
0:48
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm just gonna be like, oh my god, Megan, it's gonna be better.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: Like I was prepared to have speeches.
0:51
SPEAKER_04: You look great.
0:52
SPEAKER_04: And I walked in, I was like, Megan looks fabulous.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: Like you look better than ever.
0:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it kind of like stretched it.
0:57
SPEAKER_05: It really stretched it back.
0:59
SPEAKER_05: Uh yeah, I look normal.
1:00
SPEAKER_05: Um, thank you for your patience.
1:02
SPEAKER_05: We took a little bit of a hiatus, and we had a great conversation with Adam Peddington and then just like disappeared for weeks.
1:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but again, I truly thought our hiatus was going to be months.
1:11
SPEAKER_04: I was like expecting to, you know, you know, be long gone for a while.
1:16
SPEAKER_05: There's a planned disappearance.
1:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:18
SPEAKER_05: Uh I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
1:21
SPEAKER_05: I had a tumor in my saliva gland, and they took out my saliva gland, and I don't have a lump there.
1:27
SPEAKER_05: The tumor was benign.
1:28
SPEAKER_05: I'm proud to say that.
1:30
SPEAKER_05: Uh, and um, all of the stitches are all in the back of my head.
1:33
SPEAKER_05: Like you can't see anything.
1:35
SPEAKER_05: Don't look at the back of my head, it looks ugly.
1:37
SPEAKER_05: Don't look behind my ear.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: It's just kind of Frankenstein-y.
1:40
SPEAKER_05: It's a little Frankenstein-y back there.
1:42
SPEAKER_05: Uh, there was like 24 stitches.
1:44
SPEAKER_05: It was gnarly, but it's all like clumped up and weird looking.
1:46
SPEAKER_05: All my skin is squished together.
1:48
SPEAKER_05: That's cool.
1:49
SPEAKER_05: Um, but they basically cut around my ear, detached my ear, went dug.
1:54
SPEAKER_05: They like digged.
1:56
SPEAKER_05: They digged.
1:57
SPEAKER_05: They digged.
1:58
SPEAKER_05: They dug.
1:59
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:59
SPEAKER_05: They dug under my ear, took out the tumor and the saliva gland, and then put it all back.
2:05
SPEAKER_05: Back where it came from.
2:07
SPEAKER_05: So the Duchess is gone.
2:09
SPEAKER_05: Duchess, the tumor is gone, and so is all feeling in my ear.
2:14
SPEAKER_05: So you can't feel anything in your ear.
2:15
SPEAKER_05: You can feel here.
2:16
SPEAKER_05: Let's play a game.
2:17
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
2:17
SPEAKER_05: All right.
2:18
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
2:18
SPEAKER_05: I'll tell you when I can feel it.
2:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's your eyes are closed.
2:20
SPEAKER_04: My eyes are closed.
2:21
SPEAKER_04: Okay, tell me when you think I'm touching you.
2:23
SPEAKER_05: I can I know you're touching me just because I can hear it.
2:26
SPEAKER_05: Oh, you can hear it.
2:27
SPEAKER_05: But I cannot feel I can't.
2:28
SPEAKER_05: And you can feel probably your hair.
2:29
SPEAKER_05: I can't feel that.
2:30
SPEAKER_05: Are you touching me?
2:31
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
2:32
SPEAKER_05: I could not, I couldn't tell you really.
2:35
SPEAKER_05: Is totally dead to me.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: If we ever jump over, I'm gonna have like a long feather and just like I wouldn't know.
2:41
SPEAKER_04: Tickle you with the long feather.
2:42
SPEAKER_05: And you know what's annoying me?
2:45
SPEAKER_05: Whenever I'm telling this to people, like, oh, I I, you know, I'm lost feeling to my ear.
2:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:50
SPEAKER_05: Everyone says, Oh, just give it time, it'll come back.
2:53
SPEAKER_05: Like, you're like, no, it's gone.
2:54
SPEAKER_05: They warned this, was like they warned me in literally going into the operating room.
2:59
SPEAKER_05: My doctor was like, just remember you're not gonna feel your ear again.
3:03
SPEAKER_05: Don't freak out.
3:04
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
3:04
SPEAKER_05: Because they had to cut all the nerves around it to move my earlobe.
3:09
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
3:09
SPEAKER_05: So it's dead to me.
3:10
SPEAKER_04: But like, if you're gonna have any part of your body that you don't feel, I think an ear is just fine.
3:16
SPEAKER_05: It's bad because I have like a new habit of like tickling my earlock because it's so soft.
3:22
SPEAKER_04: Because you don't feel it?
3:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I never noticed how soft it was.
3:25
SPEAKER_03: It's like when you have Novocaine.
3:27
SPEAKER_03: We could take you back to that clears and get all the piercings.
3:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna get so many piercings.
3:31
SPEAKER_05: I can't feel anything on it.
3:32
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I'm fine.
3:34
SPEAKER_05: I'm fine.
3:35
SPEAKER_05: And um, what did take some time though, so that's why we did take a few weeks, is uh my face was kind of messed up for a little bit because like swollen.
3:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well, not even that.
3:45
SPEAKER_05: I couldn't, I was like talking out of the side of my mouth.
3:47
SPEAKER_05: Like I couldn't get my mouth to work in the right direction.
3:51
SPEAKER_05: And some of it you might if you're one of our YouTubers, um, you might notice my mouth gets so still like gets a little weird.
3:58
SPEAKER_05: Like I can't rub my lips together.
4:01
SPEAKER_04: Okay, I can't like do that again.
4:04
SPEAKER_04: That's good.
4:05
SPEAKER_05: I I just now started saying February again.
4:09
SPEAKER_05: I couldn't, I was saying February, like which is tough when it was February.
4:13
SPEAKER_05: It was a hard month to get that surgery done.
4:16
SPEAKER_05: Right.
4:16
SPEAKER_05: So I've been like, but it's it's back.
4:19
SPEAKER_05: Like I'm fine.
4:19
SPEAKER_05: I I can talk again.
4:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
4:21
SPEAKER_05: So anyway.
4:21
SPEAKER_04: Well, you look great.
4:22
SPEAKER_04: I honestly thought recovery was gonna be really rough.
4:25
SPEAKER_04: I expected to be there and I was gonna deliver you, you know, deliver me and mac and cheese and whatever you need.
4:32
SPEAKER_04: But but here you are, and you're just you're better than before.
4:36
SPEAKER_04: You're ready to go.
4:37
SPEAKER_04: New version, facelift version.
4:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Megan 2.0.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: You've been busy.
4:43
SPEAKER_04: I was, I think I said this in our last episode, but um I had two more marathons to run.
4:49
SPEAKER_04: So I took off on a little tour de South, tour de American South.
4:53
SPEAKER_04: Uh, we started in Jackson, Mississippi, where I did one race.
4:57
SPEAKER_04: Um, Grabby did the half, which was great.
5:00
SPEAKER_04: So he did the half.
5:00
SPEAKER_04: I did the whole.
5:02
SPEAKER_04: Um, we ate and drank our way through uh Jackson, which sneaky great food.
5:07
SPEAKER_04: Like everywhere we went, fantastic food.
5:10
SPEAKER_04: Uh, one Italian restaurant we went to the night before the race even was like up for a Michelin star.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
5:15
SPEAKER_04: And it was very unassuming place, but excellent.
5:18
SPEAKER_04: I think it was called Polito Austeria, if you know it.
5:21
SPEAKER_04: Great, fantastic food.
5:23
SPEAKER_04: Um, and then we went up to Nashville to visit some friends there for literally like a night.
5:27
SPEAKER_04: We spent like one night on Broadway, went out, did all the cowboy bars and all that.
5:31
SPEAKER_04: Really fun.
5:32
SPEAKER_04: Drove through Tennessee, North Carolina, and then we went to gosh, where did we end?
5:38
SPEAKER_04: We were in Charlotte um for a couple days, hung out there, and then went on to Virginia Beach area where my second marathon was, slash third of the season, slash 26th overall.
5:49
SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
5:50
SPEAKER_04: Uh it was it was long.
5:51
SPEAKER_04: But um, but yeah, so we did that, ran the race there.
5:54
SPEAKER_04: Um, I had some family who recently moved there, so we did a little thing with them.
5:57
SPEAKER_04: And it was nice, it was very relaxing.
5:59
SPEAKER_04: I thought it would be a little more stressful, but ran the races okay.
6:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh no big storms like in the Alabama race, and it was good.
6:06
SPEAKER_05: Good for you.
6:07
SPEAKER_05: We did the complete opposite.
6:09
SPEAKER_05: I laid on the couch watching Disney remakes, live actions, which I wouldn't bad choice.
6:16
SPEAKER_05: You were busy traveling and running everywhere.
6:18
SPEAKER_04: Like I would have rather watched Disney movie remake.
6:21
SPEAKER_05: I was a sloth.
6:23
SPEAKER_05: You were a roadrunner.
6:25
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
6:26
SPEAKER_04: Roadrunner.
6:27
SPEAKER_04: I was trying to be.
6:28
SPEAKER_04: I'm not, I'm not like great.
6:29
SPEAKER_04: I actually uh I told you I took what third in my age group in uh where were we?
6:36
SPEAKER_05: Uh Alabama.
6:37
SPEAKER_04: Alabama, thank you.
6:37
SPEAKER_04: I'm already I am so I know better, I know your marathons better than you.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: But Jackson, I got second in my age group.
6:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh shit, no, you told me that.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: I did.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: And I actually fast.
6:46
SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm not.
6:47
SPEAKER_04: Like, I think the competition's just getting slower.
6:49
SPEAKER_04: As you get older, it's easier.
6:51
SPEAKER_05: That's not true.
6:53
SPEAKER_04: But that's okay.
6:54
SPEAKER_04: I'll take it.
6:54
SPEAKER_04: And I do plan on getting faster.
6:56
SPEAKER_04: Like now that I'm in the back half of my 50 marathons, I'm gonna like dial it up and really focus on training and like I'm gonna get after it a little bit more.
7:03
SPEAKER_04: You know, I have more motivation to really like you know dig in.
7:07
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, hit the ground running, yeah, so to say.
7:11
SPEAKER_04: So, but enough of running for this year.
7:13
SPEAKER_04: You won't have to hear me talk about running until next year.
7:15
SPEAKER_04: It's over.
7:17
SPEAKER_05: No more tumor talk for me.
7:18
SPEAKER_05: So, what are we gonna talk about now?
7:20
SPEAKER_05: God, we're so boring.
7:21
SPEAKER_05: No more tumors, no more marathons.
7:22
SPEAKER_05: We can talk about hangings.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: I love a good hanging.
7:26
SPEAKER_04: I do love a good hanging.
7:27
SPEAKER_04: We do have a cute little uh what do you call it?
7:30
SPEAKER_05: What would you call that?
7:32
SPEAKER_05: Double gallows?
7:33
SPEAKER_05: We have a little display, a miniature, a miniature of uh of gallows with the nooses on them.
7:39
SPEAKER_05: How do I they're working?
7:40
SPEAKER_05: You have to like turn the knobs and it'll drop the floor.
7:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
7:44
SPEAKER_05: Whoa.
7:44
SPEAKER_05: I know.
7:45
SPEAKER_05: Can you can't tell if it's supposed to be like a child's toy?
7:50
SPEAKER_05: I it's a very dark child's toy.
7:52
SPEAKER_05: It's something Wednesday Adams would have.
7:54
SPEAKER_05: Didn't she?
7:54
SPEAKER_05: Didn't she have a guillotine that she has the guillotine?
7:57
SPEAKER_05: She had a guy.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, very Adams family.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Put some polypockets in there.
8:03
SPEAKER_04: And any children in my life I encounter, I'll just give them things like this.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: Just be the creepy one.
8:09
SPEAKER_04: Any business card.
8:10
SPEAKER_04: We just have to own it at this point.
8:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm okay with it.
8:13
SPEAKER_04: I'm the 37-year-old creepy aunt.
8:15
SPEAKER_04: I'll take it.
8:15
SPEAKER_05: We've got a we wanted to go American tonight.
8:18
SPEAKER_04: We did, which I think this is the first season.
8:20
SPEAKER_04: We've had two American episodes in a season.
8:23
SPEAKER_04: What was our other American this season?
8:24
SPEAKER_04: Uh Bisbee Massacre in Arizona.
8:26
SPEAKER_04: Oh, duh.
8:27
SPEAKER_04: Oh, which is really funny.
8:29
SPEAKER_04: Now that I'm saying that.
8:30
SPEAKER_04: We'll talk more about that when we talk about the setting of this place and where it is in the country.
8:35
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, weird that one is in Arizona and the other is there, given my upcoming nuptials.
8:42
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
8:43
SPEAKER_05: Um we try to do American-themed food, us being Americans.
8:49
SPEAKER_05: You think that'd be so easy.
8:51
SPEAKER_05: So the the setting takes place on the East Coast.
8:54
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
8:54
SPEAKER_05: Somehow I started with the idea because we always like to do dinner themed around our person of the day.
9:00
SPEAKER_05: And I started off with the idea of cornbread.
9:03
SPEAKER_05: Like cornbread is really American.
9:04
SPEAKER_05: Okay, let's build out our own cornbread.
9:07
SPEAKER_05: I was gonna do like a barbecue thing.
9:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it turned into a whole Southwest dinner with like jalapeno poppers and chili.
9:14
SPEAKER_05: And so I apologize for that.
9:16
SPEAKER_05: That wasn't really on theme.
9:17
SPEAKER_05: I like it though.
9:18
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's still American slash Mexican.
9:22
SPEAKER_04: Southwest.
9:22
SPEAKER_05: It's a little southwest, a little text-mex.
9:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so but that's okay.
9:25
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think we did like pasta with when we were trying to do schnitzel for our Russian episode.
9:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're gonna.
9:31
SPEAKER_05: I mean, wait, was it Russian, German?
9:32
SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
9:33
SPEAKER_05: We win some, we lose some.
9:34
SPEAKER_05: We're all over the place.
9:35
SPEAKER_05: What we should have done is probably Italian because our story takes place eventually, takes place in New Jersey.
9:42
SPEAKER_05: It does.
9:43
SPEAKER_04: And I mean, we'll again we'll get more into this, but my future mother-in-law is from the town where this execution takes place.
9:50
SPEAKER_04: So we'll get into that a little bit.
9:52
SPEAKER_05: We need to um like get some footage of where it all happened and everything.
9:56
SPEAKER_04: We should go visit.
9:57
SPEAKER_04: I think she sent me a drone video of the town.
10:00
SPEAKER_04: Okay, we'll have to do some research.
10:01
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I do want to visit.
10:02
SPEAKER_04: We're going to a lot of weddings over there this year, so maybe I'll have some more follow-up content after this episode.
10:08
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned.
10:09
SPEAKER_04: All right.
10:10
SPEAKER_04: So, our person of the evening, his name, even though it doesn't sound like it's from New Jersey, because he's not.
10:17
SPEAKER_04: Uh, his name is Antoine Leblanc.
10:20
SPEAKER_04: So Antoine, should I say Antoine or Antoine?
10:24
SPEAKER_04: I like Antoine.
10:26
SPEAKER_04: Antoine?
10:26
SPEAKER_04: That sounds more French.
10:27
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like Antoine.
10:29
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Antoine LeBlanc.
10:30
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
10:30
SPEAKER_04: So Antoine Leblanc, who we're probably gonna just refer to as LeBlanc, um, he was born in 1801 in Chateau Salines, northeastern France.
10:40
SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of near the Germany/slash Luxembourg border, if you're picturing a map of France.
10:47
SPEAKER_04: Um, we don't have a lot of background on his youth, other than he had a reputation for being a drinker and a gambler.
10:53
SPEAKER_04: Uh you know, in terms of where he was at in society, somewhat of a like low-bred man.
10:59
SPEAKER_04: You wouldn't really say he was from the aristocracy or any kind of higher class.
11:04
SPEAKER_04: However, he did apparently um carry himself as if he was a little bit of aristocratic.
11:10
SPEAKER_04: So he he had this air about him, I guess, very poised person.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: Um, maybe that's just because he's French.
11:17
SPEAKER_05: I think that's just Europeans in general.
11:19
SPEAKER_04: European.
11:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, but he worked as a laborer uh in his youth uh in a town called Bistrof.
11:25
SPEAKER_04: And he soon became infatuated with this woman named Mary Ush.
11:30
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna say it wrong because I wrote it down wrong.
11:32
SPEAKER_04: It's like an ugly last name.
11:33
SPEAKER_04: Schmidt Mary Schmidt.
11:36
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
11:36
SPEAKER_04: Sorry to any listeners with that last name.
11:39
SPEAKER_04: Um, but her family refused him because he was, again, kind of considered lowbred, didn't really have a uh a lot of career prospects, he was just a laborer.
11:49
SPEAKER_04: So, in order to prove himself, LeBlanc decides to do something that's pretty ambitious at this time.
11:54
SPEAKER_04: You know, he leaves France, and where does he decide to go, Megan?
11:57
SPEAKER_04: New York.
11:58
SPEAKER_05: He goes to New York, most likely Ellis Island, I imagine.
12:02
SPEAKER_05: Probably.
12:02
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's where all the immigrants were were going to first, right?
12:05
SPEAKER_05: It's like New York was the hub, hub.
12:08
SPEAKER_05: That was the melting pot.
12:09
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
12:10
SPEAKER_04: So this is the year uh 1833.
12:12
SPEAKER_04: So he's already about like 31, 32 years old at this time.
12:16
SPEAKER_04: So in that era, I mean that's a little bit older to be kind of starting a new chapter in your life, but I think that goes to show how much you wanted to be a part of Mary's family and you know, show that he was that he was worthy of her.
12:27
SPEAKER_05: Ambitious.
12:28
SPEAKER_05: I also like how when that just didn't work out, it wasn't like I can make this work.
12:33
SPEAKER_05: It was like, I'm going to a different country.
12:35
SPEAKER_05: I'm going to, I'm gonna go to America.
12:37
SPEAKER_05: And that's that's hard to do for anybody, but especially for someone of that class back in the 1800s, I feel like.
12:44
SPEAKER_05: Right.
12:44
SPEAKER_04: I imagine that was a very a very expensive voyage.
12:47
SPEAKER_05: Very expensive because it's not even like he was on the eastern side of France where you're closer to the you mean western?
12:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_05: I know, I messed up my directions with it.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: Because he's from the northeastern part of France, but sorry.
13:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, to get to the like west of uh France to where wherever port is in either, I guess, uh was there a port city in France?
13:10
SPEAKER_04: I actually don't know that answer.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: Would it be like Calais?
13:14
SPEAKER_04: Calais Calais get everything.
13:16
SPEAKER_04: I think so, maybe.
13:17
SPEAKER_04: I don't know if you go up to uh you know England and and do a port city out of there.
13:21
SPEAKER_05: I don't know what the major port was at this time.
13:23
SPEAKER_05: This time I have no idea.
13:25
SPEAKER_05: I I know most of my like transatlantic routes just based on Titanic, and this was this is not this this was too early for that.
13:34
SPEAKER_05: So you got me there.
13:36
SPEAKER_05: Right.
13:36
SPEAKER_05: Um, so he's in New York, he's staying at a boarding house.
13:41
SPEAKER_05: Not so long after, honestly, just a couple months later, he meets Judge Samuel Sayer.
13:49
SPEAKER_05: Very rich man.
13:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm assuming important he's a judge, and he hires him to be what most articles said was as a gardener in his home in Morristown, New Jersey.
14:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:03
SPEAKER_04: And fun fact, Morristown is where my future mother-in-law is from.
14:07
SPEAKER_05: That's the town.
14:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's the specific town.
14:10
SPEAKER_04: I know.
14:10
SPEAKER_04: When I told her, I was like, oh, the episode that we're doing soon is gonna be in Morristown.
14:14
SPEAKER_04: She was so excited, and she's like, there's so much history and culture there.
14:17
SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, my my fiance actually worked there for a time and he was living at his grandpa's house.
14:23
SPEAKER_04: Like the like Morristown's like a huge part of their like.
14:26
SPEAKER_04: It looks cool from what we were.
14:27
SPEAKER_05: It does absolutely look like there's a ton of history, especially based off of this.
14:31
SPEAKER_05: Um, shout out if you're if you're from Morristown.
14:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_05: Good for you.
14:34
SPEAKER_05: Good for you.
14:35
SPEAKER_05: It's like a fun place.
14:36
SPEAKER_05: We like you.
14:37
SPEAKER_05: Um so by so in April is when he decides to to move in as the again, a gardener, potentially laborer, we farmhand.
14:48
SPEAKER_05: We were hearing different versions, whether he was, yeah, more of like a hard labor, farmer labor on the farm of actually doing more of like, I'm imagining like plowing and the hard work behind it.
15:00
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:00
SPEAKER_05: Or, you know, others said he was a gardener, which I think kind of in in my perception, it makes it sound like it was more of a desired role.
15:10
SPEAKER_05: Like a gardener is a skill, and a gardener is not you're pruning the roses.
15:16
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:16
SPEAKER_05: Uh, it kind of makes it sound like Judge Sayer set him up for great success and gave him this prestigious role.
15:23
SPEAKER_05: Or, or a lot of this is going to be us theorizing.
15:27
SPEAKER_05: Maybe Sayer presented it as a gardener position.
15:32
SPEAKER_05: And then when he showed up, he realized, like, wait, I'm just in the fields plowing?
15:35
SPEAKER_05: That's not a gardener.
15:36
SPEAKER_04: I also wonder like how they even met.
15:39
SPEAKER_04: Because obviously Judge Sayer went to this boarding house in New York, but like, was there just a line, a line of guys ready to do any labor?
15:45
SPEAKER_04: And he was like, You?
15:47
SPEAKER_04: You know, or did he interview people?
15:49
SPEAKER_04: Like, how does he just go to a boarding house and pick up a guy who's gonna be around?
15:51
SPEAKER_04: In New York, too.
15:53
SPEAKER_04: And and Antoine uh LeBlanc, he he didn't speak much English, you know?
15:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_04: So it's not like he was like, Oh, sir, I come from France and I'm a very skilled gardener.
16:02
SPEAKER_04: Like, he barely spoke English.
16:04
SPEAKER_04: I work at Versailles.
16:05
SPEAKER_04: Have you seen their bushes?
16:06
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
16:07
SPEAKER_05: My interest you in their garden.
16:08
SPEAKER_05: He could have easily lied about that.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:10
SPEAKER_05: I have no idea.
16:11
SPEAKER_05: We this this story is pretty compact and we don't have a lot of the ins and outs of it.
16:15
SPEAKER_05: So I think we do kind of have to speculate on many, many levels of it, but I I think that assuming um LeBlanc was in like Ellis Island type area, I mean New York City, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_05: That is, like I said, a huge melting pot.
16:34
SPEAKER_05: Right.
16:34
SPEAKER_05: It sounds like he was looking for quick labor of someone who's like eager to come and start anew and like go to New Jersey without much of a plan.
16:42
SPEAKER_05: Who knows?
16:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
16:43
SPEAKER_05: I think he was picking up for labor.
16:45
SPEAKER_04: Well, and it was said that the reason he even needed a laborer is because, again, uh, this is old America here, but one of his slaves had recently ran away.
16:55
SPEAKER_04: So they were short a man in the house to help with everything.
16:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
16:58
SPEAKER_04: Um, which again, a lot of this kind of urban legend, uh, you know, oral history passed down over time.
17:05
SPEAKER_04: So who knows if that's true.
17:06
SPEAKER_04: But we do know that he uh recruited LeBlanc to work for his farmslash house.
17:12
SPEAKER_05: And you make a really good point because New Jersey at this time in 1833, Civil War hasn't started yet.
17:19
SPEAKER_05: Right.
17:20
SPEAKER_05: Um so they did have slaves in New Jersey.
17:25
SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I had to pause and and think because clearly it's a common misconception where people think, oh, if you were in the North before the Civil War, you didn't have slaves and didn't believe in slavery.
17:35
SPEAKER_04: It's like, well, a lot of them still had slaves.
17:38
SPEAKER_04: Thomas Jefferson did.
17:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:40
SPEAKER_04: I mean, a lot of call them out on the street.
17:41
SPEAKER_04: A lot of the presidents did.
17:43
SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know, and obviously there were various levels of owning slaves.
17:48
SPEAKER_04: You know, there was large plantations that required a huge number of slaves.
17:53
SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, obviously every uh person who was in charge of slaves was very different in terms of the severity in which they treated the slaves.
18:00
SPEAKER_04: There was house slaves and there was field slaves.
18:02
SPEAKER_04: So it's like there were so many different ways to experience slavery, all bad, none of them good.
18:07
SPEAKER_05: Now very shameful period of history in America.
18:10
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
18:11
SPEAKER_04: I think that's a common misconception of like, oh, if they're northerner, they don't have slaves and they're opposed to slavery.
18:15
SPEAKER_04: It's like, yeah, there was also slaves in the north.
18:20
SPEAKER_05: Well, he wasn't very happy.
18:22
SPEAKER_05: It didn't take very long.
18:25
SPEAKER_05: Weeks later, I'll let you explain what happened, Elizabeth, but we go from April to May 11th, 1833.
18:33
SPEAKER_04: Right.
18:34
SPEAKER_04: So LeBlanc apparently was already disgruntled a couple weeks into the job, which makes me think shitty employee.
18:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, either a really shitty employee or maybe was given a little too much backbreaking labor.
18:44
SPEAKER_04: Or shitty employer.
18:46
SPEAKER_04: Right.
18:46
SPEAKER_04: You don't know.
18:47
SPEAKER_04: Either one.
18:48
SPEAKER_04: Either way.
18:48
SPEAKER_04: It went either way, but they were not happy.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: Or both.
18:50
SPEAKER_04: Um, he was also forced to sleep in a cramped at cramped attic.
18:54
SPEAKER_04: So I think he was also just upset with like the accommodations, maybe thinking he was going to a nicer place where he'd have his own room and instead he was kind of forced into this small attic.
19:02
SPEAKER_04: Um, so by May 11th, 1833, as Megan said, LeBlanc kind of snaps.
19:08
SPEAKER_04: And apparently he was at a tavern beforehand, kind of talking to some people in the local bar and saying how he was planning to rob the house.
19:17
SPEAKER_04: He was like kind of, you know, I don't know.
19:19
SPEAKER_04: Maybe he was just drunk talking.
19:20
SPEAKER_04: Maybe this is again part of the urban legend, but apparently he was kind of making a plan at that time of, oh, I'm gonna ransack the house and take all the valuables.
19:29
SPEAKER_04: Either way, he ends up going back to this house and he kills Judge Sayer.
19:35
SPEAKER_04: And it's very again confusing at this point what he uses to kill Judge Sayer, but we think the most likely thing, because he's a gardener and has access to these tools, that it was an axe to the back.
19:46
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_05: I heard I heard.
19:49
SPEAKER_05: I read in several different places, including the Morristown um like local ghost tours.
19:58
SPEAKER_05: Great article about this.
19:59
SPEAKER_05: Very reputable.
20:00
SPEAKER_05: Where they explained the story of you know of the murders and what happened.
20:03
SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, they said an an axe to the back of the head.
20:07
SPEAKER_05: Okay, which makes me think he didn't even really use the blade part of it.
20:10
SPEAKER_05: Uh maybe he did.
20:11
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
20:13
SPEAKER_05: I don't I don't know.
20:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:15
SPEAKER_05: He could have.
20:16
SPEAKER_05: That would be gross.
20:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm just thinking like horror story of getting someone in an axe in the back of the head because then you have to like pull it out.
20:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
20:23
SPEAKER_04: Very Game of Thronesy.
20:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_04: They get in the battle scenes and they're still pulling stuff out of people.
20:27
SPEAKER_05: I mean, Lizzie Borden did it with a hatchet.
20:30
SPEAKER_05: That's pretty wild.
20:31
SPEAKER_05: No, Lizzie Borden had an axe.
20:32
SPEAKER_04: Oh, she had an axe.
20:34
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
20:34
SPEAKER_04: Ex-murderist.
20:35
SPEAKER_04: Ex-murderist.
20:36
SPEAKER_04: Um, but he didn't stop there, LeBlanc.
20:38
SPEAKER_04: He he first took out Judge Sayer, but then he killed his wife Sarah.
20:42
SPEAKER_04: And we think that Sarah Sayer was killed potentially with a club.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: So maybe she was bludgeoned.
20:46
SPEAKER_04: Say that again.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sayer.
20:48
SPEAKER_04: Did I say they said?
20:49
SPEAKER_04: No, you said it perfectly just like Sarah Sayer.
20:52
SPEAKER_04: That's a weird name.
20:53
SPEAKER_04: Silly Sally sold seashells by the seashore.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sayer Sayer.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sayer.
20:58
SPEAKER_04: I can't even read it.
20:59
SPEAKER_04: Sarah Sayer.
21:00
SPEAKER_04: It's just because of her surgery.
21:01
SPEAKER_04: She can say words.
21:02
SPEAKER_04: I can say words now.
21:03
SPEAKER_04: Sarah Sayer.
21:05
SPEAKER_04: Um, so apparently, like the next on his list was the wife, and then he went after the servant Phoebe.
21:12
SPEAKER_04: And but apparently, we heard uh some references saying it was with a pitchfork.
21:16
SPEAKER_04: So it's like, where's he getting all these different tools?
21:18
SPEAKER_04: Is he running around with all these tools or hitting different people with different tools?
21:23
SPEAKER_04: It's like it's like a game of clue.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:26
SPEAKER_05: Like which room with what weapon it was.
21:29
SPEAKER_05: Antoine LeBlanc with a pitchfork in the attic.
21:33
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
21:34
SPEAKER_05: Like it's all it was a different combination.
21:37
SPEAKER_05: Every every documentary watched and everything we read had different tools, but they were all gardening tools.
21:41
SPEAKER_05: They were he clearly was cleaning out his shed.
21:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
21:45
SPEAKER_05: Um, this is giving kind of like Lizzie Broden vibes to me, only because it's like the multiple people in the household and the multiple places of the house, and the bludgeoning and the very, very bloody crime scene.
21:57
SPEAKER_05: But it's like something just snapped in him.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: I'm sorry.
22:01
SPEAKER_04: How do you snap after like two, three weeks on this job?
22:04
SPEAKER_04: Is it that bad?
22:07
SPEAKER_05: I have wanted to snap on the third week of a job before.
22:11
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
22:13
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
22:13
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's pretty brutal, right?
22:15
SPEAKER_04: So to be so drastic.
22:17
SPEAKER_04: You know, it's one thing to walk off the job or even, you know, steal some things and then walk off, but to murder three people in a row.
22:23
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's a great question, though.
22:24
SPEAKER_05: Why did he do this?
22:26
SPEAKER_05: Obviously, he wanted to, he was poor and he wanted to rob, but I wonder where did it go south?
22:33
SPEAKER_05: Was his plan all along?
22:35
SPEAKER_05: Was this his intention to make it a murder burglary and then run away?
22:40
SPEAKER_05: Or was he just trying to rob them and it went bad?
22:43
SPEAKER_05: Also, I'm really curious to know about the order of murders.
22:49
SPEAKER_05: Also, we were talking about this earlier.
22:52
SPEAKER_05: Why is it just Antoine and Phoebe helping, like, where is everyone else?
22:57
SPEAKER_05: That was a question I had.
22:58
SPEAKER_05: Like is that everyone who lived there?
23:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_04: Like if if Judge Sayer is a wealthy farmer and they're calling him farmer, right?
23:06
SPEAKER_04: Which means you probably own a bit of land.
23:08
SPEAKER_04: I doubt it's just a one-acre farm.
23:09
SPEAKER_04: I don't know because I had not been there.
23:11
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
23:12
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but you have two people.
23:15
SPEAKER_04: You have the you have the husband and the wife who probably aren't doing much work.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: And then you have Phoebe and Antoine, who's new to the job.
23:22
SPEAKER_05: Poor Phoebe had a lot to do if she was the only one trying to do all the indoor household tasks.
23:28
SPEAKER_05: That's that's wild.
23:29
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know, I don't know the judge say everybody sounds cheap.
23:32
SPEAKER_05: I just have a lot of questions.
23:34
SPEAKER_05: I want to know who, what, what, when, where, and why.
23:36
SPEAKER_05: And fortunately, we don't have a lot of that.
23:40
SPEAKER_05: Um, but Phoebe did have friends who wanted to check in on her because they hadn't heard from her recently.
23:47
SPEAKER_05: And they find her in her bedroom attic, bloody bludgeon scene, right?
23:53
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
23:54
SPEAKER_05: Just grotesque, I could imagine.
23:56
SPEAKER_05: So luckily they found her.
23:57
SPEAKER_05: Frightening.
23:58
SPEAKER_05: And at this point, they're okay, where's everyone else?
24:01
SPEAKER_05: So then they start to do more of a search.
24:03
SPEAKER_05: And they find Samuel and Sarah Sayer's body bodies buried in a pile of manure in the stables.
24:14
SPEAKER_05: So Antoine clearly went through efforts of trying to hide the husband and wife who owned the house.
24:21
SPEAKER_05: Right.
24:22
SPEAKER_05: Didn't bother to hide Phoebe.
24:24
SPEAKER_04: I know.
24:25
SPEAKER_04: I don't know if he killed her in the attic or if he put her in the attic, but either way, I don't know why he wouldn't take more precautions burying her or putting her somewhere more discreet.
24:34
SPEAKER_04: Um, unfortunately, if she was a slave, uh uh it didn't count as a murder, which is awful.
24:40
SPEAKER_04: Because it is.
24:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
24:42
SPEAKER_04: Like it technically, if you were to be charged for this, you would be charged for two counts of murder because the slaves apparently didn't have value, which is awful.
24:50
SPEAKER_04: Um, but maybe that's the reason why he treated her different and didn't bother burying her if she was a slave.
24:55
SPEAKER_05: I think you're actually on to something with that because we're about to get into the trial now, but he was only up for trial for the two murders.
25:03
SPEAKER_05: The judge and for Sarah, his wife.
25:05
SPEAKER_05: So shitty.
25:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, when Phoebe is the one that they found first.
25:09
SPEAKER_05: And probably did all the work in the fucking house.
25:11
SPEAKER_05: Oh, it really is pretty messed up.
25:13
SPEAKER_05: So good old Northern America.
25:15
SPEAKER_05: I also sorry, and I realized I don't mean to just be throwing so many questions.
25:19
SPEAKER_05: I know you're you're here listening to us for us to give you the information.
25:23
SPEAKER_05: I'm just like throwing questions out into the universe.
25:25
SPEAKER_05: I want to know.
25:26
SPEAKER_05: Right.
25:27
SPEAKER_05: But also, I wonder, was he trying to maybe set up the sayers to make it look like they killed Phoebe and then hide their bodies to think like maybe they killed their help and then ran ran away?
25:40
SPEAKER_05: Right.
25:40
SPEAKER_05: Doesn't I mean it doesn't make sense, don't get me wrong, but it's just a weird order of events.
25:45
SPEAKER_04: Because you would think, again, I'm not a murderer, but if he did do this frantically, killed everybody, you think he would just bury them all together.
25:51
SPEAKER_04: And it's strange that he did it the way he did.
25:54
SPEAKER_05: And also, like, be efficient, use the same weapon.
25:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, dude.
25:57
SPEAKER_05: It was a pitchfork slash axe slash club.
26:00
SPEAKER_05: Now we have to put all of these weapons into the trial and for as evidence, yeah.
26:05
SPEAKER_04: Uh exactly.
26:07
SPEAKER_04: So, so like Megan said, I think the first way that they realized something was wrong was that Phoebe's friends had found her first, kind of raised the alarm.
26:16
SPEAKER_04: Um, and we do know that LeBlanc had ransacked the house after the killings, or again, maybe during because he potentially was robbing first.
26:25
SPEAKER_04: Either way, he had all these valuables on him and he eventually was captured.
26:30
SPEAKER_04: He didn't go very far.
26:31
SPEAKER_04: They found him in another boarding house in uh like northern New Jersey, not far from Morristown.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: And we hear, we heard like three different cities he was found in.
26:39
SPEAKER_04: So again, if you know or have more history or live in Morristown and this is like your passionate subject, let us know.
26:46
SPEAKER_04: But it was either in Newark, uh, it was in Jersey City, or it was in Hackensack, which are all like in similar areas, but they're very different towns.
26:55
SPEAKER_04: So I don't know if I don't know where you found him.
26:57
SPEAKER_05: And since Antoine LeBlanc was number one suspect in this whole crime, being on the run as a as a French foreigner in New Jersey, I feel like that's hard to blend in.
27:09
SPEAKER_05: Like you're pretty conspicuous.
27:10
SPEAKER_05: If you're yeah, if you're a wanted guy and you have a bare you're French, I mean and you don't speak English very well.
27:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_05: Kind of a dead giveaway.
27:19
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_05: But the sheriff finds him, brings him back to Morristown, and he's in prison for quite some time.
27:26
SPEAKER_05: They do some pretty grueling interrogation on him.
27:30
SPEAKER_05: He actually does confess to the murders, which makes it easy, but he still has to have a trial regardless because of the American justice system.
27:38
SPEAKER_05: Right.
27:38
SPEAKER_05: Um, but supposedly the term third getting the third degree kind of, I don't know if it was specifically this case that that term came from.
27:48
SPEAKER_05: Right.
27:48
SPEAKER_05: But it became popular in America around this era when you say, like, oh, he got the third degree.
27:54
SPEAKER_05: And they kind of use it more casually as a not necessarily always in like legal interrogation terms, right?
27:59
SPEAKER_05: But like when you're joking around with your guys, like, oh, like his wife gave three degree.
28:02
SPEAKER_05: Oh, he came over the bar and his wife gave him the third degree on where he was.
28:06
SPEAKER_05: Like that as a slang supposedly came from this case or a case like it, where I know I thought that was kind of interesting, where the um the I guess cops, I don't know who was interrogating at this time in 1833.
28:20
SPEAKER_05: Police, the policeman.
28:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
28:23
SPEAKER_05: Um they like were not using physical measures of torture as we've seen in other countries and other eras, but they were like really putting the heat on him.
28:34
SPEAKER_04: Little good, good cop, bad cop action.
28:36
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
28:37
SPEAKER_05: And they got him to confess.
28:39
SPEAKER_05: They did.
28:39
SPEAKER_05: Um, but they he still needed a trial, which brings us all the way to August 1833.
28:45
SPEAKER_05: Right.
28:45
SPEAKER_04: Um, so this the trial itself, it's funny because everything I read was like, oh, it was a swift trial, like open, close.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, well, it still took nine to ten days to do the full trial.
28:56
SPEAKER_05: Right.
28:56
SPEAKER_05: Which is like the man already confessed.
28:58
SPEAKER_05: Isn't that like a dung deal?
28:59
SPEAKER_05: Like in, out, bada bing, bada boom, bada bing, bada baby.
29:02
SPEAKER_05: Get the noose.
29:03
SPEAKER_05: She's getting all jerseys.
29:04
SPEAKER_05: Get the noose and get them loose.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: I'd have never heard that.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: I just came up with that.
29:07
SPEAKER_03: A juice is loose.
29:08
SPEAKER_04: A juice is loose on the noose.
29:11
SPEAKER_04: Um, but apparently there was a lot of public outcry to like, you know, execute this man and to, you know, deal with this problem.
29:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, and how many witnesses did you say?
29:20
SPEAKER_04: I've got some info on that.
29:22
SPEAKER_05: In this nine-day trial, 47 testimonies.
29:26
SPEAKER_05: Not necessarily witnesses, but they gave testimonials on his character, what they saw, uh, the people who who came in to check in on Phoebe and they saw the crime scene.
29:36
SPEAKER_05: It's also like uh he's been there three weeks and they have this many people that are like, yeah, bad guy.
29:41
SPEAKER_04: Here's all my evidence against him.
29:43
SPEAKER_04: He's like, I don't even go here.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even know anything.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: He's not even from here.
29:48
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's actually a really good point.
29:51
SPEAKER_05: He must have made a pretty strong statement in his three weeks in Morristown, New Jersey, to have 47 people be like, that's the guy.
30:01
SPEAKER_05: Right.
30:01
SPEAKER_05: He already had the reputation of being a drinker, a gambler, not a very nice guy, right?
30:07
SPEAKER_05: So and so I'm sure he's rubbing some feathers the wrong way.
30:12
SPEAKER_05: Uh I like that you said that.
30:15
SPEAKER_04: Ruffling some feathers.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: I always get it just a little bit wrong.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: I like that though.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: What did I say before?
30:21
SPEAKER_03: I said when you're rubbing heads.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: What were you trying to say?
30:24
SPEAKER_03: Putting our heads together.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: I said, let's rub heads.
30:28
SPEAKER_05: You know what?
30:29
SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm always like a little bit Michael Scottish.
30:32
SPEAKER_05: I like it.
30:33
SPEAKER_05: From the office, where it's like I have an idiom and I just get it unintentionally, ever so slightly wrong.
30:38
SPEAKER_05: I apologize.
30:40
SPEAKER_05: I should make a compilation of them all one day, I'm sure.
30:42
SPEAKER_04: That'd actually be really funny, reel.
30:44
SPEAKER_04: Uh, I I like them.
30:45
SPEAKER_04: I enjoy them.
30:46
SPEAKER_05: But the 47 testimonials, the other one, so it was the people who saw the crime scene, the people who came then and like the cleanup, I guess.
30:53
SPEAKER_05: Right.
30:54
SPEAKER_05: Uh also the people who saw him at the hotel bar the night before, they were commenting on his quote, appearance and demeanor.
31:02
SPEAKER_05: Which brings us to another thing.
31:04
SPEAKER_05: If his appearance and demeanor was however it was, because they don't elaborate, was this pre-planned?
31:12
SPEAKER_05: Was he like, hmm, was he anxious?
31:16
SPEAKER_04: He could have been.
31:17
SPEAKER_04: Or was he pissed and they knew something was off?
31:21
SPEAKER_04: Either way, it's hard to say what his intention was, right?
31:24
SPEAKER_04: Like, was he going there for robbery or for murder?
31:27
SPEAKER_04: You know, because either way, you're probably still acting either anxious or angry.
31:33
SPEAKER_04: So it's hard to say what that could mean.
31:35
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, they don't really elaborate.
31:37
SPEAKER_04: They're like, oh, we knew by the look of him and how he was talking.
31:39
SPEAKER_04: It's like, well, what did he say?
31:40
SPEAKER_05: I want to find the court records for this.
31:43
SPEAKER_05: There was a play that they made in 1994 in the courthouse in Morristown, New Jersey to reenact this.
31:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_05: So maybe we need to find that script and we'd we'd know more.
31:55
SPEAKER_05: Interview those actors.
31:56
SPEAKER_05: Had we had more time.
31:58
SPEAKER_05: But I was recovering.
31:59
SPEAKER_04: I'll ask my resources in Morristown, New Jersey.
32:02
SPEAKER_05: Please actually, though, can you?
32:04
SPEAKER_05: No, I will.
32:04
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna see who knows about it.
32:06
SPEAKER_05: I wonder, maybe, maybe your mother-in-law saw the play.
32:10
SPEAKER_05: I doubt it.
32:12
SPEAKER_05: But I can ask her.
32:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she sent me some drone footage of Morristown, New Jersey.
32:16
SPEAKER_04: I'll have to dive into that and do some more research.
32:20
SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, but but all all good questions as to, again, the the murkiness of it and how everything kind of transpired and and how what the these uh testimonies uh you know, what they covered.
32:33
SPEAKER_04: But either way, eventually the judge presiding over this case, Judge Gabriel Ford, he sentenced LeBlanc to death, and he said that he was to be hanged by the neck until dead.
32:46
SPEAKER_04: And then he said something interesting after that, because I feel like that's a normal thing we hear from a lot of judges, like, you know, you're guilty of XYZ, this is your sentence.
32:54
SPEAKER_04: But after that he said, and this is a direct quote, he said, and it is further consideration by the court that after the execution is done, your body be delivered to Dr.
33:06
SPEAKER_04: J.W.
33:07
SPEAKER_04: Canfield, a surgeon for dissection.
33:11
SPEAKER_04: Isn't that weird?
33:12
SPEAKER_04: I kind of like it.
33:13
SPEAKER_04: Like to be told before you're executed, like also we're gonna abuse your body after you're dead.
33:18
SPEAKER_04: In the name of science, in the name of science, of course, be like happy to help.
33:23
SPEAKER_05: I know he's like, um, I didn't sign that waiver.
33:26
SPEAKER_05: He's like, Do you see donor on my ID card?
33:29
SPEAKER_05: On my green card right now.
33:31
SPEAKER_05: Like to, it's like, it's just interesting.
33:33
SPEAKER_04: The I mean, I wonder what his reaction was to that.
33:35
SPEAKER_04: Like, okay, dissection.
33:37
SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
33:37
SPEAKER_05: He says so much about the era of 1830s, how science and medicine is on the brink of discovery.
33:46
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
33:47
SPEAKER_05: Um, so we'll get into that a little bit more.
33:49
SPEAKER_05: Their deliberation did not take long, though, to come to this.
33:53
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was a nine-day trial, 20 minutes to come to that decision.
33:57
SPEAKER_05: That's right.
33:57
SPEAKER_05: That it was gonna be death by hanging and dissection.
34:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
34:00
SPEAKER_05: Post-mortem.
34:02
SPEAKER_05: Uh so that brings us now to September 6, 1833, which pretty fast.
34:11
SPEAKER_05: The murders happened in May.
34:13
SPEAKER_05: Right.
34:14
SPEAKER_05: I mean, he only arrived in April.
34:16
SPEAKER_05: Guy's new to town.
34:17
SPEAKER_05: He didn't do so hot in America.
34:19
SPEAKER_05: No, I think he should have stayed in France.
34:21
SPEAKER_05: I don't know what happened in France.
34:23
SPEAKER_05: What happened to Mary?
34:25
SPEAKER_05: I, again, I'm speculating.
34:27
SPEAKER_05: I think he was running away from France because he did some bad things in France, too.
34:32
SPEAKER_05: You think so?
34:33
SPEAKER_05: I mean, this guy's not a good character.
34:35
SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, I mean, he killed three people.
34:37
SPEAKER_05: This can't be his first rodeo.
34:39
SPEAKER_04: What if that was just in reaction to the robbery?
34:41
SPEAKER_05: What if he's a good guy?
34:43
SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
34:44
SPEAKER_04: It's misunderstood.
34:45
SPEAKER_04: It's misunderstood.
34:47
SPEAKER_04: I am curious to know a little bit more about him in in France.
34:50
SPEAKER_04: What if he was linked to other unresolved murders?
34:53
SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
34:54
SPEAKER_04: What if he's like Jack the Ripper?
34:55
SPEAKER_04: I know it's in London.
34:57
SPEAKER_04: I know it doesn't line up.
34:58
SPEAKER_04: I actually don't know what era that is.
35:00
SPEAKER_04: When's Jack the Ripper?
35:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh, are you looking in your notes?
35:04
SPEAKER_04: Do you have that?
35:05
SPEAKER_05: No, because we talked about not, oh, it's I don't have it now.
35:07
SPEAKER_05: We did the murder house.
35:09
SPEAKER_05: Um oh gosh, that was no other than Yeah, this was like six years ago.
35:14
SPEAKER_04: Oh murder, I actually know that the murder house was around.
35:16
SPEAKER_05: Oh, we're embarrassing ourselves when was Jack the Ripper.
35:19
SPEAKER_04: I don't know, but I do know that the murder house was the late 1800s because it was the Chicago.
35:23
SPEAKER_05: It was late 1800s.
35:25
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
35:25
SPEAKER_04: So that doesn't line up with our timeline.
35:27
SPEAKER_04: But maybe doesn't.
35:29
SPEAKER_04: You never know.
35:30
SPEAKER_05: We could make it work.
35:31
SPEAKER_04: Crazier things have happened.
35:32
SPEAKER_05: Oh, tell us what happened on September 6th, 1833.
35:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so let's get to this day.
35:38
SPEAKER_04: Uh September 6th, over 10,000 people show up at this execution site, which was funny enough called Morristown Green, which not to be confused with Tower Green.
35:49
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I was like, Why is that funny?
35:51
SPEAKER_05: I think it's funny.
35:52
SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
35:52
SPEAKER_05: It's a it's a tutor history joke.
35:54
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I didn't pick up on it.
35:56
SPEAKER_04: That's a lot of people.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: They said at the time it was five times the amount of the Morristown population.
36:03
SPEAKER_04: So, like people from all over Jersey City, Hackensack, Newark, they were all there.
36:10
SPEAKER_05: I did hear the news reached all the way to Philadelphia.
36:14
SPEAKER_05: Um I think people were fascinated.
36:17
SPEAKER_05: This not only was this like the first like big murder case like this in Morristown, some fun facts, it was the first triple murder.
36:30
SPEAKER_05: Triple homicide.
36:31
SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
36:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
36:31
SPEAKER_05: The first triple homicide and the only triple homicide that's ever happened in Morristown, New Jersey.
36:37
SPEAKER_05: Really?
36:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm not saying that to challenge anyone.
36:41
SPEAKER_04: My brain immediately was like, I could top that.
36:44
SPEAKER_04: I'm going there this summer.
36:46
SPEAKER_05: Uh bring my pitchfork in.
36:48
SPEAKER_05: It was a big to-do.
36:50
SPEAKER_05: People were fascinated.
36:51
SPEAKER_05: They wanted to see the spectacle of it all.
36:54
SPEAKER_05: And I think because it was such a gruesome, disgusting crime, people wanted to see the justice.
37:03
SPEAKER_05: I think there was no remorse of hanging someone who did that to three innocent people.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: Right.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: Um, and there was a local engineer named Stephen Vale who helped actually modify the gallows.
37:17
SPEAKER_04: So I think it was more of a spectacle.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: Because typically, in a hanging, like our little miniature display here in front of us, um, subscribe to the YouTube.
37:26
SPEAKER_05: You have to see it if you want to know what a gallows looks like.
37:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
37:29
SPEAKER_04: But typically, you know, it's just a like either a trapdoor, you know, or uh, or they like we've talked about in previous episodes, they figure out your height and weight to do the optimal like drop height to snap your neck.
37:42
SPEAKER_04: This was completely different because Stephen Vale, uh, again, this businessman engineer, he decided he wanted to build something where it actually pulled up the body instead of let the body drop.
37:54
SPEAKER_04: And the way they did this, like, because I think when we think of a traditional like English drawn and quartering, they kind of do that where you're like hanged at the neck until not quite dead, and then they do other things to your body.
38:04
SPEAKER_04: Just dangle you around a little bit.
38:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
38:05
SPEAKER_04: So, but that's just someone like kind of pulling on the rope and you're kind of elevating from your neck.
38:10
SPEAKER_04: This was a completely different system where there was like a counterweight, so the weight dropped, and then you like essentially soared in the air.
38:18
SPEAKER_04: Like it wasn't a slow process.
38:20
SPEAKER_04: You kind of were like whipped off of your feet.
38:22
SPEAKER_05: They were truly using this man for experimentations.
38:25
SPEAKER_05: I just feel like it was a group of dudes who are like, Okay, guys, I've been working on this plan for a while.
38:30
SPEAKER_05: Hear me out.
38:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
38:31
SPEAKER_05: Instead of dropping, we lift the bind.
38:35
SPEAKER_05: They're like, Whoa, he flies.
38:37
unknown: Whoa.
38:38
SPEAKER_04: Fly eagles fly.
38:39
SPEAKER_05: There's no short drop and a sudden stop happening here.
38:43
SPEAKER_05: No.
38:44
SPEAKER_04: Um, and Vale, the engineer businessman, even wrote in his diary, this is what exactly what he wrote.
38:50
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I oh, you got that?
38:52
SPEAKER_04: So he said, quote, the sheriff cut the rope and the weight dropped, and he went up eight feet and struggled for two minutes by my stopwatch.
39:01
SPEAKER_04: He hung 35 minutes and was let down to his coffin.
39:06
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
39:07
SPEAKER_04: I know.
39:08
SPEAKER_04: So it's a long time.
39:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so he went up fast, was hanging, or yeah, struggled for about two minutes, but then uh was hanging there for a total of 35 minutes.
39:18
SPEAKER_05: Does that mean he wasn't pronounced dead until 35 minutes later?
39:23
SPEAKER_05: Probably.
39:23
SPEAKER_04: I think they can't pronounce him dead until they take the body down and like examine him.
39:28
SPEAKER_04: I wonder if he was unconscious or if you know Yeah.
39:31
SPEAKER_04: Unless they just wanted, you know, to have him hang there for a bit for the display of it.
39:36
SPEAKER_04: You know, maybe he died in two minutes.
39:37
SPEAKER_05: That's what I that's what I'm trying to say.
39:38
SPEAKER_05: Like, did he die in the two minutes and then they left the body?
39:41
SPEAKER_05: Or was it a slow strangulation, which we know can happen when the the neck's not broken?
39:48
SPEAKER_04: Right.
39:48
SPEAKER_04: It definitely was a strangulation.
39:50
SPEAKER_04: Because the city struggled for two minutes.
39:51
SPEAKER_04: I imagine if your neck snapped, you'd just be gone.
39:53
SPEAKER_05: That's gotta be a long two minutes.
39:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
39:56
SPEAKER_04: And like like we've talked about how sometimes with hangings, if family members are merciful, they'll pull on your legs like no one could do that because he's eight feet in the air.
40:04
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and he has no friends or family.
40:06
SPEAKER_04: That's true.
40:07
SPEAKER_04: I forgot about that part.
40:09
SPEAKER_05: He murdered the only people in there.
40:14
unknown: Yeah.
40:16
SPEAKER_04: People really didn't like this guy.
40:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, so so again, he was cut down, put in this coffin.
40:21
SPEAKER_04: But the reason why we're c like we're kind of covering all of this, I would say, early is because way more creepy stuff happens after he's dead.
40:30
SPEAKER_05: Yes, if we can recall, that wasn't the end of his sentence.
40:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
40:33
SPEAKER_05: So immediately his body is taken back to the courthouse where Dr.
40:38
SPEAKER_05: Joseph Henry and Dr.
40:40
SPEAKER_05: Samuel Ladd Hell are now taking over.
40:44
SPEAKER_05: They are both coming from Princeton University.
40:47
SPEAKER_05: Dr.
40:47
SPEAKER_05: Joseph Henry ends up being, what was it, the secretary?
40:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the first secretary of the Smithsonian in DC.
40:55
SPEAKER_05: So he's a curious man.
40:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
40:57
SPEAKER_05: He's got lots of ideas in his head and wants to discover things.
41:02
SPEAKER_05: And he's very um You know who he reminds me of?
41:05
SPEAKER_04: You've seen Game of Thrones.
41:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
41:07
SPEAKER_04: I just I forgot to tell you in my tour to South, we just binged all eight seasons of Game of Thrones again.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: It's lovely.
41:13
SPEAKER_04: But because the new series came out, so now it's all resurfaced.
41:16
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, but uh these doctors who are doing these experiments remind me of like Cersei Lannister's little uh like scientist guy who was initially dismissed from court because his ideas were too extreme.
41:29
SPEAKER_04: The guy who's like in the basement making the blue stuff, the bombs, the bombs, yeah, and stuff and sets, but yeah, and he just sits every time they like execute somebody or do something weird, he just sits there with his eyes open, like all excited, wants to grab the body.
41:42
SPEAKER_04: That's what these guys remind me of.
41:44
SPEAKER_05: The thing that Dr.
41:45
SPEAKER_05: Henry and Dr.
41:46
SPEAKER_05: Howe are experimenting on is galvanic batteries.
41:50
SPEAKER_05: Am I saying that right?
41:51
SPEAKER_05: Galvanic, I think so.
41:52
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, okay, this is what I thought was really cool.
41:57
SPEAKER_05: In the late 1700s to the early 1800s in this era as well, they there's a lot of science and discovery happening around the nervous system and muscles and how energy and electricity is reviving the muscles.
42:15
SPEAKER_04: It's making them twitch.
42:16
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
42:17
SPEAKER_05: If you're thinking Frankenstein, you are nodding correct.
42:21
SPEAKER_04: You're on the right track.
42:22
SPEAKER_05: You're on the right track.
42:23
SPEAKER_05: So they were hooking up electricity to these cadavers and watching them twitch and making note of the muscles.
42:31
SPEAKER_05: And supposedly they that they were doing this on our buddy LeBlanc and his eyes were rolling around.
42:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
42:38
SPEAKER_05: They said his lips were twitching.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: His lips were moving.
42:41
SPEAKER_05: His lips were moving.
42:42
SPEAKER_05: And so they're trying to understand the connection of electricity and the nervous system and your muscles, and if you can bring these parts back to life.
42:53
SPEAKER_05: This is the inspiration for Frankenstein.
42:56
SPEAKER_05: That's so wild.
42:57
SPEAKER_05: And what they were doing to LeBlanc is inspiring Mary Shelley.
43:01
SPEAKER_05: Right.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: This is like a precursor to the writing of Frankenstein.
43:04
SPEAKER_04: So crazy.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: I love it, which also comes full circle to your stitches behind your neck.
43:09
SPEAKER_05: Because I'm basically rocked that.
43:12
SPEAKER_05: I should.
43:14
SPEAKER_05: Um and it doesn't stop there.
43:16
SPEAKER_05: So they're playing around with electricity on him.
43:19
SPEAKER_05: And when they when they get bored of that.
43:21
SPEAKER_05: This also reminds me of our uh Borgan and Burke episode.
43:25
SPEAKER_05: Wait.
43:26
SPEAKER_04: Reminds me of the game of operation.
43:28
SPEAKER_04: It does.
43:29
SPEAKER_04: I was thinking of that too.
43:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh but remember those two guys stole the bodies like from a uh Oh yeah.
43:35
SPEAKER_04: They were selling the cadaver.
43:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and then they were selling them like for to scientists or experiments.
43:41
SPEAKER_04: It's all for science guys.
43:43
SPEAKER_05: Then they send the body to the old no tannery.
43:48
SPEAKER_05: Why do you ask a tannery?
43:51
SPEAKER_04: Weird stuff happened.
43:52
SPEAKER_05: Let's make use of his skin.
43:54
SPEAKER_04: They decided to use LeBlanc's skin, his actual skin, on his body.
44:00
SPEAKER_04: To make things like wallets, book covers, a purse.
44:05
SPEAKER_04: They were making things out of his skin and again, like tanning them so that they almost look like leather.
44:12
SPEAKER_05: It's giving Edgeen vibes.
44:13
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's so weird.
44:14
SPEAKER_04: You know, and some of them were even signed by the sheriff to essentially like provide authenticity to be like, yes, this is actually Leblon.
44:23
SPEAKER_05: It's just a weird execution.
44:24
SPEAKER_05: It just, it's a weird execution.
44:26
SPEAKER_05: And the whole town is in on it.
44:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
44:29
SPEAKER_05: Um, souvenirs was a really big part of this execution because it was this big triple murder and it was all over the news and it was so popular at the time.
44:37
SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to think of something similar of like a big event, I don't know, like Michael Jackson trial or something, where it's like, if you were there, you want to prove that you were there.
44:47
SPEAKER_05: Because you know that this is a moment in history.
44:50
SPEAKER_04: And we've seen in in uh, you know, Europe too, during different eras where people would take uh parts of like like the hay where the the heads would roll.
45:00
SPEAKER_04: Like the bloody hay, or like put their clothing in some of the blood to be like, oh look, this is the blood from the execution.
45:06
SPEAKER_04: Like people were weird.
45:08
SPEAKER_05: They put it in their scrapbooks at home.
45:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, very cool.
45:10
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's what they did here.
45:11
SPEAKER_05: So if you weren't lucky enough or rich enough to get a skinned wallet or a handbag, people were also stealing, they were stripping the the rope of the noose and they were taking that.
45:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
45:24
SPEAKER_05: They were even taking chipwoods.
45:27
SPEAKER_05: The wood from the gallows.
45:28
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
45:28
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
45:29
SPEAKER_05: They were getting wood from gallows, they were even taking the screws and the nails and the metal from it.
45:38
SPEAKER_05: Green.
45:38
SPEAKER_05: New Jersey.
45:40
SPEAKER_05: This is so this is on brand for New Jersey, I hate to say, and I'm so sorry for everyone in New Jersey.
45:47
SPEAKER_04: We're gonna roast New Jersey a little bit in this episode.
45:49
SPEAKER_05: You're allowed because Robbie is a little on from New Jersey.
45:52
SPEAKER_04: I'm marrying into New York.
45:53
SPEAKER_04: You're marrying New Jersey.
45:54
SPEAKER_04: So I'm basically a New Jersey person now.
45:57
SPEAKER_04: Yay.
45:58
SPEAKER_04: Um, but it also reminds me, I told Megan this when I was like, wow, they turned him into a wallet and a purse.
46:04
SPEAKER_04: I was thinking of rescuers down under when the little lizard's being told that he's turning into a purse after he gets skinned.
46:11
SPEAKER_04: And he's like, I don't want to be a purse.
46:14
SPEAKER_05: So that's what I was thinking.
46:15
SPEAKER_05: Poor LeBlanc.
46:16
SPEAKER_05: He didn't want to be a purse.
46:18
SPEAKER_05: I was just thinking Ed Geen, the serial killer who made lampshades out of his victims.
46:22
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I did read a lamp shade was made too with this guy.
46:26
SPEAKER_04: LeBlanc was everywhere.
46:28
SPEAKER_04: Um, but you can actually still see some of these things uh it from the Morristown Historical Society.
46:34
SPEAKER_04: They have them displayed in different parts, I think, of the town.
46:37
SPEAKER_04: Um, but one weird thing that they made too, probably the weirdest, actually, yeah, was they made something called a death mask.
46:44
SPEAKER_04: I'm kind of unclear what that means.
46:47
SPEAKER_04: I think it means, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think it means they removed all the skin from his face and like wrapped it around some sort of plaster thing and like preserved it, like fermented it.
46:58
SPEAKER_04: I don't think they have to refermented it.
46:59
SPEAKER_05: I don't think they removed the skin.
47:01
SPEAKER_05: Isn't it his skin?
47:02
SPEAKER_05: I saw Abraham Lincoln's death mask.
47:04
SPEAKER_05: Wait, then what is that?
47:06
SPEAKER_05: It's like an imprint of your face.
47:08
SPEAKER_05: Oh so it's not there's a no, it's not a creepy thing, no, it's not a creepy thing.
47:13
SPEAKER_05: It's it's a classy thing.
47:16
SPEAKER_05: What?
47:17
SPEAKER_05: Wait.
47:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm not a little confused.
47:19
SPEAKER_05: I'm not making them.
47:20
SPEAKER_04: Tell me what a death mask is then.
47:22
SPEAKER_05: It is because they didn't have photography and everything the same back then.
47:27
SPEAKER_05: So it's an impression of your face, so you know what you look like.
47:30
SPEAKER_04: It's like a mold of your face.
47:31
SPEAKER_05: Don't they have doesn't Mary Queen of Scots have a death mask?
47:34
SPEAKER_05: I don't too.
47:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:35
SPEAKER_04: I've never heard this before.
47:36
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
47:37
SPEAKER_04: The only death masks I know are from like the ancient era where they put like the gold mask on your face.
47:42
SPEAKER_05: Okay, remember that toy we had with all the little nails?
47:46
SPEAKER_04: Where's this going?
47:49
SPEAKER_05: And you would do the imprints of your hand, and then we always put it on our face.
47:52
SPEAKER_05: We're like, look at my face.
47:54
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
47:54
SPEAKER_05: It's like that.
47:55
SPEAKER_04: So it's like none of it is actually part of him.
47:58
SPEAKER_05: I don't think so.
47:59
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I thought they stretched his skin over like a plaster.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: Where is your mind?
48:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm sorry.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: They made wallets and purses out of his skin.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, you're taking it way too far.
48:09
SPEAKER_04: I actually assumed they stretched his face skin onto a plaster head.
48:13
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
48:15
SPEAKER_05: That's fine.
48:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you're taking this way too far.
48:19
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
48:20
SPEAKER_05: I don't want to be a purse.
48:21
SPEAKER_05: But you know what's funny is they actually cut off his ears for souvenirs to go.
48:26
SPEAKER_03: Okay, thank you.
48:27
SPEAKER_03: They cut off his freaking ears, made them souvenirs, but it's too weird to put face skin on a plaster head.
48:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
48:35
SPEAKER_05: All right.
48:36
SPEAKER_05: The death mask, you can see it today.
48:39
SPEAKER_05: You can.
48:39
SPEAKER_05: You can.
48:40
SPEAKER_05: Which I might, again, I'm gonna go there a lot.
48:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, good.
48:43
SPEAKER_05: Summerfall.
48:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm going to like a million weddings.
48:46
SPEAKER_05: I would love to go with you and see that in person.
48:48
SPEAKER_05: Let's go.
48:49
SPEAKER_05: Um, I have a lot on the books.
48:52
SPEAKER_05: There is one more thing that they made that's a practical thing and not a gross thing.
48:57
SPEAKER_05: It wasn't a gross body thing.
48:58
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I don't know what you're about to say either.
49:00
SPEAKER_05: Well, because we were talking about how they were stripping the gallows.
49:03
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
49:03
SPEAKER_05: Some of the gallows also still exist.
49:05
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
49:06
SPEAKER_05: Not on public display.
49:07
SPEAKER_04: No, there's like planks of wood from the gallows that are in, I think, the attic of the library in Morristown.
49:14
SPEAKER_04: Like the public library.
49:15
SPEAKER_05: Great preservation system.
49:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_05: Uh, but they used the wood.
49:20
SPEAKER_05: Tell me, this is not symbolic.
49:22
SPEAKER_05: They created gavels for the judges in the courthouse using the gallows of the gavels turned into the gavels.
49:32
SPEAKER_04: The gavels from the gallows.
49:34
SPEAKER_04: Sarah Sayer.
49:35
SPEAKER_04: Sarah Sayer.
49:36
SPEAKER_04: Gallows.
49:37
SPEAKER_04: Seashells by the Jersey Seashells.
49:38
SPEAKER_05: Why did we choose the?
49:39
SPEAKER_05: I can barely talk with my mouth situation.
49:42
SPEAKER_05: And here we are with these tongue twisters.
49:44
SPEAKER_05: This is great.
49:45
SPEAKER_05: There's so many weird things in this story.
49:48
SPEAKER_05: They did.
49:49
SPEAKER_05: They also, really quick, sorry.
49:50
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
49:51
SPEAKER_04: They also found bones on the property, too.
49:53
SPEAKER_04: Um so uh of the Morris uh count, what is it, courthouse, Morristown Courthouse, in 1893, which is about what 60 years later after the execution, they did, they were like digging up uh some of the grounds for, I don't know, refurbishment or something.
50:09
SPEAKER_04: They were some renovations.
50:12
SPEAKER_04: Um they were excavating and they found human bones that had clear signs of dissection and experimentation.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: And it's like, we don't know if those were LeBlancs or if they had other bodies.
50:23
SPEAKER_04: Like how many bodies did they do this to?
50:25
SPEAKER_05: It was a thing in that time period.
50:28
SPEAKER_05: Uh if you are curious and you want to either if you live there, you want to go and see any of this.
50:33
SPEAKER_05: Um, the Sayer house is still around today where all of the murders happened.
50:38
SPEAKER_05: It's on South Street, and it's currently a commerce bank.
50:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
50:42
SPEAKER_05: Wait.
50:43
SPEAKER_05: The house is now a bank.
50:45
SPEAKER_05: The house that the Sayers lived in and were murdered in is now a bank.
50:49
SPEAKER_05: So you can't go there to see historical things.
50:50
SPEAKER_04: You go there.
50:51
SPEAKER_05: You can go there to make a withdrawal.
50:53
SPEAKER_04: You can go there for banking purposes.
50:55
SPEAKER_05: You can open a loan.
50:56
SPEAKER_05: Damn.
50:56
SPEAKER_05: You can ask to open your loan in the attic with all the blood.
51:00
SPEAKER_05: That's great.
51:01
SPEAKER_05: You think the attic's still there?
51:03
SPEAKER_05: Probably.
51:03
SPEAKER_05: It's part of the house.
51:04
SPEAKER_04: All the ghosts.
51:05
SPEAKER_04: I would love to do the ghost tour of Morristown.
51:07
SPEAKER_04: Let's do this.
51:08
SPEAKER_04: I want to.
51:09
SPEAKER_04: You're going.
51:10
SPEAKER_04: I'll come.
51:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I just don't know when.
51:12
SPEAKER_04: I don't have any flights booked, but I'll let you know.
51:14
SPEAKER_04: As soon as I book anything.
51:16
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Jersey's a funny place.
51:17
SPEAKER_04: I just have to say one thing really quick.
51:20
SPEAKER_04: Well, we're all Jersey topics.
51:22
SPEAKER_04: No, I I saw it was weirdly in my news today.
51:24
SPEAKER_04: Like my news digest always has like kind of a fun section that's like fun facts or funny, you know, interesting things to learn.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: And the one today was like, learn which states have other states as their favorite, which was like it's a map of the US and it shows like, oh, like Californians, their favorite state is Hawaii.
51:44
SPEAKER_04: Like Arizona's, their favorite state is California.
51:46
SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of like, what other than your state, what state do you prefer?
51:49
SPEAKER_04: And a lot pick Texas, a lot pick, you know, Florida.
51:53
SPEAKER_04: And when it looks at when it zooms in on New Jersey, it says, did not like other states.
52:00
SPEAKER_04: Like also on brand.
52:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like every other state picked another state, be like, oh, I like this state.
52:06
SPEAKER_04: Like when I'm when I'm not in Utah, I like to go to Montana.
52:08
SPEAKER_05: Why you gotta leave New Jersey?
52:09
SPEAKER_05: We got everything we need in New Jersey.
52:11
SPEAKER_05: We don't need to leave New Jersey.
52:12
SPEAKER_05: New Jersey's great.
52:13
SPEAKER_05: Everything we need is right here.
52:14
SPEAKER_05: So New Jersey is just so New Jersey, and they don't like any other state.
52:19
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:20
SPEAKER_05: I keep thinking of the line in in Hamilton.
52:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:23
SPEAKER_05: And they go, everything is legal in New Jersey.
52:26
SPEAKER_05: For real.
52:26
SPEAKER_05: It's truly I'm learning a lot about New Jersey.
52:29
SPEAKER_05: You know what I don't like about New Jersey?
52:31
SPEAKER_05: I like a lot of things about New Jersey.
52:32
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
52:33
SPEAKER_04: I told you the roast of New Jersey was coming.
52:35
SPEAKER_04: Here we go.
52:36
SPEAKER_05: You can't make a left turn.
52:38
SPEAKER_05: What?
52:39
SPEAKER_05: There's like no left turns in New Jersey.
52:41
SPEAKER_05: Oh, it's like Zoolander.
52:42
SPEAKER_05: It's yeah, Eastern turns Jersey.
52:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:44
SPEAKER_05: Derek Zoolander is from New York.
52:46
SPEAKER_05: New Jersey.
52:46
SPEAKER_05: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, at least where I was traveling at one point in my life.
52:50
SPEAKER_04: Megan, there's got to be left turns in New Jersey.
52:53
SPEAKER_05: There's not.
52:53
SPEAKER_05: You have to make a right and then like make a U-turn and go straight.
52:58
SPEAKER_04: That can't be true.
53:00
SPEAKER_04: Next time.
53:01
SPEAKER_04: Where in New Jersey were you?
53:03
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
53:05
SPEAKER_04: You also can't.
53:06
SPEAKER_04: I've been to Robbie's hometown.
53:08
SPEAKER_04: I've made plenty of less.
53:11
SPEAKER_04: I don't think the lefts were off the table.
53:14
SPEAKER_04: I would have noticed.
53:14
SPEAKER_05: You also can't pump your own gas.
53:16
SPEAKER_04: I don't like that.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: That's weird.
53:18
SPEAKER_04: That's weird.
53:19
SPEAKER_04: Trust us.
53:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
53:19
SPEAKER_04: His sister like freaks out when she goes to other places where she has to pump her own gas.
53:24
SPEAKER_04: She's like, it's really confusing.
53:25
SPEAKER_04: You gotta get out of your car, and like there's buttons you gotta push.
53:29
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, you learn it when you're 16 and you get over it.
53:32
SPEAKER_04: She like doesn't like getting gas.
53:34
SPEAKER_04: She's like, I'll only go out like out of state with another person and they have to do it.
53:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, you're 32.
53:41
SPEAKER_05: New New Jerseyans are their own kind.
53:43
SPEAKER_05: They are.
53:44
SPEAKER_05: Another one.
53:45
SPEAKER_04: Well, sorry, we're roasting New Jersey.
53:47
SPEAKER_04: I told you.
53:48
SPEAKER_04: Um so right now there's a thing in sports called like the world baseball classic.
53:53
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
53:53
SPEAKER_04: So it's like all these different countries competing against each other.
53:56
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
53:56
SPEAKER_04: Apparently, Italy like doesn't have enough native Italians to like make a team.
54:01
SPEAKER_04: So guess where they got all of their Italians from?
54:06
SPEAKER_04: Is it New Jersey?
54:07
SPEAKER_03: Yes, this is real.
54:08
SPEAKER_03: This is a real fact.
54:09
SPEAKER_03: Look it up.
54:10
SPEAKER_03: They're like American New Jersey Italian guys who are playing for the Italy team.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: How much hair gel do they have?
54:18
SPEAKER_03: A lot of hair gel.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: Okay, boys, we're up.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: Up the bat boys.
54:22
SPEAKER_04: They're discussing the differences between Taylor Ham and Pork roll.
54:26
SPEAKER_04: It's it's very intense.
54:28
SPEAKER_05: I I mean, coming as as a you know, in my early 20s, in the 2010s, I was a big Jersey Shore fan.
54:38
SPEAKER_05: I never actually saw the show.
54:40
SPEAKER_05: That that show is cold.
54:41
SPEAKER_05: Which is ironic based on who I date.
54:43
SPEAKER_05: I could binge that whole thing with you.
54:46
SPEAKER_04: How many seasons of Jersey Shore were there?
54:47
SPEAKER_04: Too many.
54:48
SPEAKER_04: Really?
54:48
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
54:49
SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
54:49
SPEAKER_04: But now they have like Jersey Shore Reunion, right?
54:52
SPEAKER_04: Jersey Shore more stuff.
54:53
SPEAKER_04: Well they gotta keep the money flowing.
54:55
SPEAKER_04: That's true.
54:56
SPEAKER_04: I was in Atlantic City like a year or two ago, and like DJ Polly Deeves performing at one of the casinos there.
55:02
SPEAKER_04: Still a thing.
55:03
SPEAKER_04: It's just it's a culture, man.
55:05
SPEAKER_05: Oh man, what a story.
55:07
SPEAKER_05: Um the chili and cornbread bacon.
55:11
SPEAKER_05: It was very um.
55:12
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I could have made like calzones, and then I would have felt bad.
55:15
SPEAKER_04: That's okay.
55:16
SPEAKER_04: Like I said, I can do this now because I'm marrying into it, so I'm basically Italian wife.
55:19
SPEAKER_04: Basically a jersey wife.
55:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
55:21
SPEAKER_04: I I'm a mob wife.
55:22
SPEAKER_04: Um, I only have actually 1% Italian in me, but I feel like it's growing every day.
55:28
SPEAKER_05: Um, one last thing though, I have to share about Antoine LeBlanc.
55:31
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
55:32
SPEAKER_05: Supposedly his gravesite, because he does have a gravesite.
55:36
SPEAKER_05: Oh, he does.
55:37
SPEAKER_05: Haunted.
55:38
SPEAKER_05: And it's the tombstone has been struck by lightning multiple times.
55:42
SPEAKER_04: I like that.
55:44
SPEAKER_04: It's very cool.
55:45
SPEAKER_04: Nicolas Cage, his tombstone's already been struck by lightning three times.
55:49
SPEAKER_04: Why does he already have a tombstone?
55:51
SPEAKER_04: That's my first question.
55:52
SPEAKER_04: A wild person, and he already has it picked out in New Orleans in one of the cemeteries.
55:57
SPEAKER_04: It's like a pyramid shape.
55:59
SPEAKER_05: Not to get totally off topic here, but he does he did own the house.
56:03
SPEAKER_05: Um the creepy murder.
56:06
SPEAKER_04: Where the woman like would torture her slaves.
56:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that the um American Horror Story is based on.
56:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
56:11
SPEAKER_05: Sorry, now we digress.
56:12
SPEAKER_05: We're going on a whole new topic.
56:14
SPEAKER_05: It makes sense.
56:16
SPEAKER_05: But yeah, but then New Orleans is south of New Jersey, and there's a lot of French people there.
56:20
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, totally connects.
56:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
56:23
SPEAKER_05: Good.
56:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
56:24
SPEAKER_05: See how we wrapped it up so nicely.
56:26
SPEAKER_05: We're just really good at that.
56:27
SPEAKER_05: Um Elizabeth.
56:30
SPEAKER_05: Did you have more to share?
56:31
SPEAKER_05: Like in all seriousness.
56:32
SPEAKER_05: I didn't want to cut off.
56:34
SPEAKER_05: I think I got all my New Jersey roasting.
56:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, any any other uh stereotypes you wanna go over?
56:39
SPEAKER_03: No, I think I'm tapped out for the day.
56:41
SPEAKER_04: I'll come back fresh on our next episode with more.
56:46
SPEAKER_04: Any final words?
56:48
SPEAKER_04: Not today.
56:50
SPEAKER_02: Where is this happening?
56:51
SPEAKER_00: Across the river in Jersey.
56:53
SPEAKER_06: Everything is legal in New Jersey.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: Cut the Mutsadell, Tone.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: The fist bump is gone.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: Rest in peace.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: I am the fucking chief of Mutzadell.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: Look at this club right now, Tone.
57:04
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's caught in the Mutsadell.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's got their blades in the air, we're all caught in the Mutzadel.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this yesterday when I got the fucking job.
57:12
SPEAKER_00: And still with this plate, I've got the plate fucking off.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: I used that fucking thing to play.
57:19
SPEAKER_00: I caught the moods and out.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: I got fucking plate off.