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When Being Capable Becomes A Cage · Unstoppable You

• Rebecca Hollander (00:00): We are our worst critics when we fail, but what do we say when our friend fails? It's okay. We all make mistakes. Don't worry about it. You're going to figure it out. We need to talk to ourselves like we talk to our friend. We have to trick our brain. If you speak to it in a negative way, it's going to believe those things. So we need to show the evidence of everything we succeeded so far. We've made it this far. What makes us think we're not going to get past this? Bree Katulak (00:26): Hey, I'm Bree and this is Unstoppable You, the podcast for women ready to stop choosing between their dreams family and personal growth. Hey there. Welcome back to Unstoppable You. There's a pattern that I've noticed over the years and if you're listening, you might recognize it in yourself too. A lot of high performing women tend to become the fixer, the one that people rely on not only to do their own work well, but to step in and clean up what others have left behind. The one who raises their hand when no one else will and the one that makes sure things actually get across the finish line. I have played that role more times than I can count and I think of very specific moments throughout my career, whether it was stepping into complex modeling work or volunteering to lead projects that no one else wanted. (01:28): One moment absolutely stands out a little bit more brightly than the others. I was in my late 20s sitting in a bright conference room with my peers and the VP of strategy for that organization asked for someone to take the lead on the financial integration of a new acquisition. This is something that I had never done before on my own, but it was always something that I wanted to lean into, taking M&A classes in college and wanting to get into the M&A world in the corporate environment. I remember the room went silent and it was that kind of silence where everyone's waiting for someone else to step up where people are actively avoiding making eye contact at the risk of being called on. And I remember thinking, "I've never done this, but I know I can figure it out. And I actually really love this kind of work. (02:30): So I raised my hand. The VP did look a little surprised but also a bit relieved. And just like that, I became the one doing the thing that no one else wanted to do. And here's what I've learned since then. Being the fixer can actually open up doors, but this is an important distinction. It can also quietly become an expectation. So today I'm talking with my friend and neighbor, Rebecca Hollander, an incredibly talented software engineer who's built a strong career while also showing up fully for her family and an absolute fixer by nature. We're going to talk about what it really looks like to balance both and how she approaches her work and home life with utter intention. And where being the only one people rely on can be a strength, but also where you need to put some boundaries. Welcome, Rebecca. Before we really get started, what does having it all really mean to you? Rebecca Hollander (03:41): To me, having it all is a balance. It doesn't mean mastering everything at the same time. It's having a career and being able to play mom at the same time. And that's a challenge. So having it all to me means to be able to shift those priorities. So I can shift my focus at home or I can shift it at work. I can have my career and I can have my family and both are thriving. I want to live a purposeful life where my family is healthy, they're supported and they're overall happy and that I'm happy in my career and I'm making a meaningful impact for my company. It's never settling and always driving to be my best self, learning and growing. Bree Katulak (04:25): So I think that's awesome. You focused on career and family. Do you ever feel like you lose a part of yourself or do you feel like you are included in those two aspects of Rebecca? Rebecca Hollander (04:41): I make a lot of sacrifices to kind of balance the different aspects of my life. And I think there are harder years when the children are much younger. I've definitely lost myself trying to manage that all. But as they are growing and turning into their own individual human beings and they're finding their path, I feel like I'm finding my way back to me as well. I don't regret the sacrifice or the times that I feel like I'm lost because I think that makes me who I am today. It makes me stronger and I can better prioritize. I mean, if you think about work perspective, who better has experienced handling emotional human beings and trying to calm them down while making dinner and multitasking and doing something else. Being a parent really improves all aspects of your lives. And when it comes to work, it helps you succeed even more because you have all these experience. Bree Katulak (05:35): Something you've said about losing yourself when the kids are young, I totally understand that. You're literally giving your body to your kids, right? Talk to me a little bit about that journey and how losing yourself, finding yourself, how your career has been impacted by having kids and having it all in general. Rebecca Hollander (05:54): I always go back to the flamingo. I'd like to think of myself as a flamingo. The mothers, when they have their young, they lose their pink because they're giving all their nutrients everything to that child. And I feel like we do that as well. So they turn gray. So you'll see a gray flamingo that's usually like a mother who has young children that it's trying to take care of and give everything too. But again, like I said, those experiences, especially when they're young and you're trying to get to daycare, you're trying to go to work, they're always constantly sick. You have to figure out how am I going to go from work, pick up a sick kid. Oh, I feel like I'm failing at work. I feel like I'm feeling as a mother. But in reality, all those things are building up and giving you this experience and building your character. (06:40): It's not the perfect things in life that build us. It's all those imperfections. The imperfections are the stories we go back and tell. It's a time where I'm literally in the CEO's office with my brand new baby and all of a sudden he has it pooped in four days and now has a major blueout night for while I'm talking. It's like trying to manage, okay, new time mom, major blowout talking to the COO, how do I manage this? Bree Katulak (07:06): Right. But I'm sure you handled it with grace. Can you tell us how that went? Rebecca Hollander (07:10): I've been very fortunate, especially over the last 15 years. I've been in a very male dominated field. So you would think being mom and female and those things are kind of challenges. However, I've been in a very family oriented work environment. So even though as a new mom, still kind of knew at that time, it was more like, oh, that's hilarious. He pooped in my office and we're going to tell this story for years. And it's just like, okay, well, this is a situation that come up I haven't been in. They need to figure it out. So I'll just go handle the situation and come back and it's all good. Bree Katulak (07:47): That's awesome. I absolutely love that. Rebecca and I are neighbors and our sons, they're best friends. And one of the things that I absolutely love most about you is how you raise your kids to be responsible and to have grit and to work through the hard moments. So can you talk to us or tell some stories about how you do that with your kids? And I mean, your children are so well behaved and so awesome and always welcome at our house. I love what you instill in them. So how do you and Steve go about doing your parenting lifestyle and the lessons you really want them to take away? Rebecca Hollander (08:27): I'm glad to hear that they're well behaved in front of everyone else because that's not always the case at home, but I guess that's a sign of good, healthy children when they come home and they can be their true selves and let it out. The biggest challenge is time, energy, attention. So I don't always have the time and the energy to step in and handle situations. What we try to do is let them figure things out on their own and hold them accountable to their commitments. So if they're having an argument like, "I want this pencil, why you're not giving it to me? " I don't step in and referee that. I let them figure it out on their own because as an adult, they're going to have to figure out how to resolve these conflicts. Now I might lean in and say calm, kind words are going to win arguments better than emotional angry words. (09:22): And there may be times that I might give them the mom look like, "All right, she's your only sister and she's crying now. Do you think that was the right solution you came up with? " So I might try to lead them, but ultimately I try to help them resolve their conflict syndrome. So I mean, it's really about teaching them the skills now to be good adults in the future. I also try to make sure that they're like, "We are all different. The way we look, the way we talk, the way we think, we have people who might have mental disabilities, physical disabilities." We all contribute in different ways and have meaningful impacts in different ways to make sure that we are including everyone and we're standing up for everyone. I try to encourage my kids like, "Hey, first day of school, go reach out, be a friend." So just kind of like those things I'm trying to instill in them as they grow into adults. Bree Katulak (10:18): You guys are very active in scouts, all four of you. So I'm sure at least if it's anything like my kids, they sign up for something and they're all excited about it and then halfway through the season or the year they're like, "I'm not going. I don't want to go. " How do you work through those scenarios with your kiddos? Rebecca Hollander (10:35): Yeah, I get a lot of, I don't want to go to this meeting or this practice or whatever. But then once I get there, this is the kids talking and I have the same problem with stuff I do. Once you get there, you're like, "Oh yeah, I'm glad I came. This is fun." I don't have a great secret for that. I just try to let them know like, "Hey, this is what we signed up for. " And especially if you're a volunteer for something. I've been in situations where I'd be volunteers for different activities and if someone drops out how much stress it is to put on that person to try to find a replacement to explain to them the overall picture on things, when you make a commitment, this is not only just for you, this is how it flows through with everyone else and you need to make sure we stick with it. (11:18): But yeah, at the same time, it's all about having fun. That's what life is. We should be happy. We should do things that make us happy. So we just have to plan accordingly. For example, we want Ben Treadband this year pretty good for the start towards the end of the year, not so much his thing. So it's one of those things like, let's reevaluate for next year, but we've committed to this year so we need to finish out. Bree Katulak (11:42): I know at work you're one of the most action oriented people I know and that's one of the things that I think I was naturally drawn to when I first started getting to know you. Maybe you haven't directly said it, but the takeaway that I had is how you can be the fixer at work, like always stepping in to clean up. Can you share how this role shapes your professional journey and how you feel like it may impact your work-life balance? Rebecca Hollander (12:09): There's been years where I've been the only one in my position. So I remember times when I had a question and it would go around in the circle and come back to me to answer and I'm like, "I'm the one that asked the question." So I think those experiences have taught me to think outside the box and examine new ways to find a solution. It taught me to be brave and try things instead of just trying to connect with a coworker and get their sign off. Try it and see if it doesn't work, I can roll it back and start over again. Just those experiences and helping me learn to be brave, I've always had the confidence and that in training has helped me build a reputation as someone who can just step into complex situations with little information and just drive solutions because I've done it. (12:58): I've had the experience. My brain shows me I've done these things before. So I enjoy that challenge. I kind of just put on my little detective hat and try to figure things out and it's open doors for growth as well. So if you are the go - to person that means you usually take on more than you probably should. And I know that the problems I'm solving in my particular position is not necessarily a nine to five schedule. So that kind of blurs the lines a little bit between home and work, especially when you're a remote worker. So there's some challenges on both sides. There's goods and then there's some challenges you still need to figure out. Bree Katulak (13:39): Let's go back to the having it all conversation. Do you feel like being a remote worker and working from home, you've had to draw some hard boundaries or do you have trouble drawing those boundaries where it may impact your family more? Or do you feel like over time you've learned how to navigate that? Rebecca Hollander (13:56): I think it's a shift. I feel like there's evening hours that may take away now that didn't when I was in the office. However, at the same time, being a remote worker has allowed me to see my kids get on and off the bus. I can make breakfasts in the morning. I can step away in the afternoon go to the school party and then come back to my desk. I don't have that nine to five schedule anymore. I get to step away and go do something or like a field trip and then I can make up those hours in the evening. There's a lot of times I do have to work after hours just based on the role that I perform, but then I can be here after school and we can go for a walk or go to the pool or something. So I think even though it's just shifted differently, I feel like I actually work more than I used to in the office because in the office and once I leave, I'm done for the day. (14:49): But here I can kind of come back and finish something up. Bree Katulak (14:51): Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, there have been studies about unlimited PTO and how the psychology of it all is people have actually proven that you take less PTO when it's unlimited as opposed to I have to use these four weeks or whatever the case may be. This podcast is called Unstoppable You. So let's talk about being unstoppable, but what does that word mean for you and not just necessarily in work, but also in your personal or home life? Rebecca Hollander (15:20): Being unstoppable for me means I have the courage to look past the fear That's really what it comes down to. Fear stops us a lot, right? The fear of the unknown, the fear of failing, the fear of not being enough or doing it right. So to have the strength to continue even when things are difficult, that's what unstoppable means to me. Being unstoppable does not mean I'm not going to fail. I'm going to continue to fail, but that's not bad. I tell my kids, I'm going to be disappointed if they don't fail because if they don't fail, that means they didn't try. Even if you fail after failure to fail, I mean, you could fail a hundred times, but you're going to get to that final point and you're going to succeed and all that stuff that happened before you've learned from and that got you to this point. (16:05): So it's just continuing to keep that perspective and moving forward. Bree Katulak (16:09): Right. And I don't know, but have you heard of the term failing fast? Rebecca Hollander (16:12): Fail fast, Bree Katulak (16:13): Fail Rebecca Hollander (16:13): Fast and adjust and move Bree Katulak (16:15): On. (16:16): And I'm very much a firm believer of that and creating that environment for the teams that we work in, especially being in leadership and stuff, you have to create that safe environment where people feel like they can fail or else they're not going to try and then you're going to be limited in the output that you'll get from your team and how far your company can ultimately go. But I love that moving past the fear. I think that's amazing. What would be your advice to other women who want to feel as unstoppable as you do? Rebecca Hollander (16:47): First, be kind to yourself. Okay. We are our worst critics when we fail. So we'll be like, "That was a dumb mistake. You don't know what you're doing, but what do we say when our friend fails? It's okay. We all make mistakes. We learn something. Don't worry about it. You're going to figure it out. " We need to talk to ourselves like we talk to our friend. We have to trick our brain. Our brain feeds on the negative. And so if you speak to it in a negative way, it's going to believe those things. So we need to give it positive vibes basically and show the evidence of everything we succeeded so far. We've made it this far of every challenge. What makes us think we're not going to get past this? The second one would be don't do it alone. I've realized that I have this incredible spouse. (17:34): He's very involved in our family life and he encourages me and pushes me to go after things that I'm scared of. I would not have two master's degrees without him or his leadership just watching him do things. But what's equally as important is having a small circle of women around you who are in the same boat. Someone who's walking a similar path and understands the messy, unfiltered reality of it, like juggling that conversation while the baby's having a major blowout diaper or navigating sleepless nights and still showing up for work the next day or figuring out how am I going to take this 3:00 PM call from the car while driving the kid to an orthodontist appointment? People who understand that and are walking the same life and knowing that I'm not alone and that they have my back and they understand and they're not judging me, I think that's essential. (18:26): I think it's essential to have a little support system, whatever your system looks like, if it's friends or if you have close family nearby, whatever your system is that can help push you through those challenging times. Lastly, setting smart goals, but not only just setting them, but celebrating every milestone, little or big, because again, you worked hard to get to that point. Bree Katulak (18:46): You've mentioned you have the evidence in your brain a couple of times now and I love that because I think so often it's easy to only focus on the failures or to only focus on what went wrong, like the negative aspect like you said. But I think training our brains to celebrate those wins and do it more often is so critical. Do you think your support system has evolved over time throughout your career and your family, or do you think it's been pretty stable? Rebecca Hollander (19:14): No, definitely has evolved because it all depends on where you are in life. We waited to have kids, so we are kind of a little bit older parents. My oldest is 11, so we're far from graduation. Before we were just two of us married working, that's a different support system. I have time to do things I want to do. I can go work on half marathons. I can work on my career. I can go to grad school. All these things that we did. So you have your support system who's in that same circle as you. Someone who's struggling through grad school and working, right? That's a different reality than I face now where I am balancing work and motherhood. There's different challenges with that. So my circle has changed to fit my lifestyle throughout these stages. And I think that's essential because having someone who is walking that path right now with you and understands and you can just bounce off each other. (20:12): I'm not saying married women with children and single women can't bond, but there's just a different connection when you're in a deep rux of it and you just understand completely like, I've been there, I got you, don't worry. So yeah, I think it evolves. Bree Katulak (20:30): I completely agree. Can we go back to your two master's degrees? When did you get those? What stage of life were you in for each of them and what were some of the obstacles that you had during those stages? Rebecca Hollander (20:41): So the first one was before we had children. We were like, "Well, if we're going to get master's degrees, let's do it now before we have kids." So my first one was in computer science. However, the challenge on that one is during it, I ended up getting diagnosed with thyroid cancer and I had surgery at the same time my husband was going to the UK to work for four months. Bree Katulak (21:07): Oh my gosh. Rebecca Hollander (21:09): So it's funny story now, it all worked out. It was fine. The biggest challenge on that was I actually had to drop a class for a second because if anybody knows anything about the thyroid disease, if you don't have your levels right, you're just exhausted. It affects your brain, it affects all sorts of stuff. So my levels weren't balanced yet after surgery. So I was exhausted. I was working all day, coming home, and then I'm going to bed at seven o'clock at night. So that was a little bit of a challenge, but everything worked out I'm fine. Got my medicines balanced, ended up finishing that degree, so that was awesome. And then I think it was 2022, I ended up going back to get my MBA through Kelly School of Business. So that was a different challenge than my first degree because now I have children. (21:53): I'm working full-time. I'm newly learning how to work remote because it's COVID and I'm going to school. So one of my favorite stories is first semester in working remote in my finance class and that's like crazy difficult and I'm working with my partner on the screen and here comes my daughter, two years old, just to climb right on top of my head while I'm trying to figure out this calculation, trying to find a balance, what works for you. My plan being mom, what worked best for me and my particular situation was I worked all weekend. Bree Katulak (22:29): That makes complete sense. I remember that. I used to call my kids when they came up during COVID. They were my interns like, "We just have extra brain power now." And you're right, the good stories, the good growth moments really do come from those hard times, not when everything is smooth sailing, that's for sure. So there's one thing I wanted to bring up. You once told me about this hilarious video where you carried a huge box yourself to get it inside while your husband was actually working at the house with you and you could have asked for help. What was that moment like for you and how does it reflect your approach to getting things done no matter the cost? Rebecca Hollander (23:10): Firstly, I've heard a perspective. Okay. I am the middle child and the only girl. So you tell me I can't do something I'm just going to prove you wrong do it Bree Katulak (23:19): Anyway. Unpalpable. Rebecca Hollander (23:20): There's more than one way to do things. So whether it's career or family or life in general, we can look around at what others are doing, but we need to do what's best for us. One of the best things my mom told me is like, "You can listen to other people's opinions, but you need to form your own." So I can look around and see other people, how they're doing life or how they're doing things, but I need to figure out what works best for me. So in this situation and in work, to me, it's more like challenge accepted. Can I do this on my own? Is there a different way other than the traditional way of doing this? So yeah, the box was tall and heavy and I'm a spray. There's no way I can lift it on my own, but physics is an amazing thing. (24:07): I can flip it from the side to the top to the side and I can get it into my house by myself. But I mean, this can be true for work too. And I'm not saying you need to tackle things alone at work. There is great benefit to have a diverse group who thinks differently and sees products or tasks in a different perspective. There's always a different way to do it. Is there a better way? Can we do this a different way? Is there a better way to do it? The competitive side of me more sees a problem to tackle and then drives me to solutions. So either that's on my own or on a team. Bree Katulak (24:42): How do you help bring that forth with your kiddos too? Do you have those conversations with your kids? Rebecca Hollander (24:51): I do tell them all the time, you have to think outside the box. You can see what others are doing. You can listen to what others are saying, but you need to form your own opinion. You need to question things. Adults don't have all the answers. If you think I'm doing something or saying something wrong, your opinion counts too. So I want you to stand up. The biggest thing for me is for them to think critically and use their voice. Just because I'm an adult doesn't mean that I'm right. You might see something from a different point of view, and gosh, goodness, they correct me all the time. But I want them to see there's other ways to do it and there's not just one way and you just have to think and use your brains and consider all factors and people in it as well. (25:34): I want to make sure that what you're doing is the right thing and it's not something that has a negative impact for others. Bree Katulak (25:42): Being a working mom and being so career driven and wanting to have that family in that perfect harmony, what are some of the obstacles and how do you really face juggling all of that on a day-to-day basis? Rebecca Hollander (25:55): I feel it is very challenging to be a working mom because as a mother, you're responsible for shaping these little lives. You want your children to grow, to be kind, capable of people who can make the world a better place. So just that alone is a lot of pressure. And then you add a career onto it where you also want to succeed and you want to contribute and you want to make a difference. And so both roles are very demanding of time, energy and heart. I think there's times that I feel like when I'm succeeding in one area, I'm feeling in the other and vice versa. I feel like I can't succeed at both at the same time, but even though it looks that way, I don't believe that that's truly the case because it's those pressures that help us prioritize things and I'm going to drop a ball. (26:47): It's going to happen. I'm going to drop a ball, but the question is which one? I'm pulling a theory from Ryan Dyson. He talks about a glass ball and a rubber ball. Bree Katulak (26:55): Yes. So Rebecca Hollander (26:56): The theory is that some things like a work meeting or a non-urgent deadline or even a workout, that's a rubber ball. So I can drop that, I can catch it, I can move on. But things like my child's biggest moment or maybe time with my family, that's a glass ball. So if I drop that ball, it has a deeper impact. It takes longer to repair if I can even repair it. So just learning the difference between what is a glass ball and what is a rubber ball, what can I drop to save over here, that makes all the difference. And I think some of the challenges that come with this is I'm going to go with three things. There's society, there's culture and there's confidence. For society, I don't think society's quite set up for working parents. Daycare is very expensive, school starts and end in the middle of the workday. (27:49): Most families like mine, we don't have extended family nearby. So you want to be taken seriously at work, you also want to be there for your kids. And then there's also culture. What is the work culture like? Is it flexible? Can I leave during the workday to pick up my sick kid? Can I shift hours to go to doctor's appointments? For those two obstacles, I think it's a matter of building your support system and finding the right culture. So my support system is my circle of neighbor and friends, like I mentioned earlier that kind of are walking the same life as me, that I can be like, "Hey, can you help me with the kids? Can you do this? Let's go vent about what's going on. " And then for career, like I said before, mine is a very flexible environment. I'm not embarrassed if a kid makes appearance on my video call or if I want to take a late lunch and go to the school for a party. (28:42): So my culture maps my lifestyle and I'm very fortunate in that situation. Now my husband's industry, it's quite the opposite. It's very traditional. So I've been remote the last six years where he's kind of in a hybrid environment. So a lot of childcare falls on me, I have to manage that. I think understanding the culture and what you can and cannot control makes a difference. There was many months that Monday through Wednesday we would get into arguments, little tiny arguments because I'm struggling working at home with kids. He's struggling getting to and from the office. And then we have scouts and sports and everything else going on. Finally, we just pinpoint the situation that Monday through Wednesday is just insane. So working together and shifting responsibilities and figuring out those challenges help us work together instead of against once another. So understanding the culture and where you are and what you can control and if you can be in the right culture for your lifestyle, that's huge. (29:48): The last thing I want to talk about with obstacles I think is one of the most important things. It's confidence and this statistic has stayed in my mind for years. My dad actually brought it to my attention It's been years and years ago, but said research shows that girls' confidence begins to drop as early as age eight. And then between eight and 14, it's been documented about a 30% drop. Bree Katulak (30:14): That's a huge drop. Rebecca Hollander (30:15): And you can see this still as adults where women tend to not go after job listings unless they're 100% qualified and it shows men tend to go after 60% qualified. And I think that there's years in my career where I've had the confidence and then there's years where I've lost it. Bree Katulak (30:36): Have you noticed a theme to that? Were you new in your role when you lost it? Were you more experienced or seasoned in the role when you had it? Rebecca Hollander (30:45): Sometimes, but I also think age kind of plays a factor. I think in my 20s after I got established, I was a real confident. And I think as we get into perimenopause, we experience a little bit of confidence to drop again. But I think my daughter helps me with this because she's in that age group now and I'm so determined to help her keep her confidence. I don't want her to lose her drive, he determination and her voice. She makes me fight for mine so I don't give into that statistic. When she was little and I used to drop her off at daycare and we still do this now at bus drop off, I would make her repeat, "I am smart, I'm strong, I can do anything." And I would give her books on real super women, Ruth Bader, Ginsburg, I think Rosa Parks, even Michelle Obama, and then female superheroes like Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman and Black Willow. (31:42): But then one day I was like, "I can be a role model too. Why am I not including myself in there? Why am I not including her as a powerful woman?" So in my tough days now, I will repeat that to myself. I am smart. I am strong. I can do anything. Again, it comes down to tricking our brains. We're trailblazers. Think of all the things we've done, everything we accomplished. We survived all these challenges so far. So what makes us think we're not capable now? So we are smart. We're strong. We can do anything. Bree Katulak (32:12): Do you say that to yourself every morning in the mirror like an affirmation or do you wait for times of need to say that? Rebecca Hollander (32:20): Me, I'm not so dedicated, but it's those times where I'm struggling with something or I know I'm going to have a hard day and then I will say it to myself out loud. Bree Katulak (32:30): I absolutely love that. I think there's so many opportunities that we have, like you said, throughout the day even to push ourselves to growth. I read this book and now I'm blanking on the name, of course, but it's about moving the needle just 1% every single day. And I think if you compound that over time, you're going to see insurmountable things that you never thought you could accomplish. So I think that links hand in hand. And I even had a fitness coach say, "You can't have a positive and a negative thought at once, so make your choice and make it wisely." And that was just to keep us running on a treadmill, but it goes for anything. So let's choose positive, let's choose empowerment. So we've talked a lot about obstacles, which means that it's not always smooth sailing. Do you have some examples of things in your life and how you've navigated those rougher waters? Rebecca Hollander (33:23): Let me tell you a story about a chipped plate. So years ago we chipped a plate in the house and nobody wanted to use this poor, ugly chipped plate. People would switch it out or push it away and it was cast out to the bottom of the plate stack. But then one day as it was being pushed away, we just casually mentioned that it was the lucky plate. Guess what plate is the most used plate in the house and everyone fights over it today? It's that darn chipped plate Bree Katulak (33:54): That is Rebecca Hollander (33:54): Amazing.Nothing changed with the plate. It's just our perception. So I think that the tough times, as we mentioned, is it's hard to get through, but those are the stories that we look back on. It's not the times that are perfect. It's the times that are tough. It's the times where I was struggling in grad class and I was crying in this car to my husband, I'm going to fuck this class, but I ended up getting a B+. It was a time in COVID when I'm stuck inside learning how to do remote for the first time and right behind me, the two-year-olds learning how to potty train times when I was having a panic attack in the kitchen because I was taking on a new team and a new product line. I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm freaking out. So I think that going through those times are so hard. (34:41): But if we can just put it in perspective of this is how we're getting our chip, we're earning our chip and we're going to turn into something special. So just keeping that perspective and just moving through and building your character, you're going to get to the other side and you're going to be something special. Bree Katulak (35:00): I love that. The lucky plate is going to live on forever and that's so great. And that'll probably be a story that you tell to your grandkids too. That's awesome. So when I think back to that moment sitting in that conference room, raising my hand for something I had never done before, I don't think that was me overfunctioning. I think that was honestly me stepping into growth and it aligned with who I was at that stage of my life. I wanted to learn. I wanted to push myself. I wanted to prove mostly to myself that I could figure out the hard things. And I think that experience honestly gave me so much. It built my confidence. It taught me how to navigate complexity and it showed me when to push and when it was okay to ask for help. But I've learned over the years that the same instinct that helps you grow early in your career can start to show up differently as you develop into a leader. (36:07): So as I moved up into leadership roles, there were moments, especially early on when you're first learning how to lead, where I would absolutely step in way too quickly. If someone was on my team and they were struggling with a model with budget inputs and we were up against a deadline, I found that my natural tendency would be to just take over and get it done. It was more important to get the result than to let them struggle and let them grow into their own confidence. And in that moment, it really did feel efficient. It felt like I was being helpful to drive the output, but what I've realized is I was taking away that opportunity from someone that once helped me grow. So this week I want everyone to just start noticing where do you step in? Where do you take over and where do you feel responsible for making everything work? (37:10): And I want you to pause long enough to ask yourself, is this actually mine to carry? Because I think a lot of what Rebecca was saying in today's episode is we need to allow people to struggle and grow and have a safe space to fail so that they can experience the growth that we've gotten so fortunate to be able to experience ourselves because sometimes stepping up is exactly what you're meant to do in that moment and sometimes growth actually comes from taking a step back. The key here is knowing the difference. This is your life. Define it, live it, become unstoppable. Thank you for listening to Unstoppable You. If this episode was helpful, I'd love to know. Connect with me on LinkedIn at Bree Katulak. That's K-A-T-U-L-A-K on LinkedIn and shoot me a message. This show is for you. Be Unstoppable. I'll see you next time.