Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / David Porter

Transcript

David Porter · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:20
Speaker 1: David Porter's story goes well beyond writing songs and releasing
0:23
Speaker 1: albums for Stax Records. His recent memoir, The Soul Man,
0:25
Speaker 1: tells how he and his partner Isaac Hayes helped invent
0:28
Speaker 1: a sound rich and enduring enough to define American music
0:31
Speaker 1: from the 60s to now. Together they wrote and produced
0:34
Speaker 1: hits for Sam and Dave, Johnny Taylor, and dozens of
0:37
Speaker 1: other artists, and in the process built what became known
0:39
Speaker 1: as the Stax Sound. a sound Porter still describes as
0:43
Speaker 1: the pursuit of pure emotional connection. Porter grew up on
0:47
Speaker 1: a dead-end street in Memphis that also produced Maurice White
0:50
Speaker 1: of Earth, Wind & Fire and members of the Barcays.
0:53
Speaker 1: He started out singing in church before eventually singing and
0:55
Speaker 1: producing music for Stax. He never learned to read music,
0:59
Speaker 1: none of the great names that Stax did. Instead, they
1:02
Speaker 1: built songs by ear in the room together, a process
1:05
Speaker 1: Porter calls head arrangements, and it became the foundation for
1:08
Speaker 1: some of the greatest songs in the history of R & B. Today,
1:11
Speaker 1: Bruce Edlum sits down with David Porter to talk about
1:14
Speaker 1: how he and Isaac Hayes built a signature sound to
1:16
Speaker 1: set themselves apart from Motown, Burt Bacharach, and Hal David.
1:20
Speaker 1: He also recalls the writing session that turned a bathroom
1:23
Speaker 1: joke into Sam and Dave's Hold On, I'm Coming, and
1:25
Speaker 1: the incredible story of how Otis Redding went from an
1:28
Speaker 1: artist's personal driver to a Stax superstar. This is Broken Record.
1:36
Speaker 1: Real musicians, real conversations. Here's Bruce Hedlum with David Porter.
1:47
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming in to Broken Record.
1:51
Speaker 2: David Porter, producer, arranger, singer, composer, now a philanthropist, and
1:59
Speaker 2: just one of the five or six most essential people
2:03
Speaker 2: at Stax Records. And people talk about the Stax sound
2:08
Speaker 2: all the time. Combination of gospel, this, that, blues. When
2:13
Speaker 2: you think about the stack sound, how do you define it?
2:18
Speaker 3: The essence of pure emotional connectivity, the abilities to the
2:25
Speaker 3: purity of the dedication of being real with the performance,
2:29
Speaker 3: with the writing, to be so vulnerable and authentic in
2:37
Speaker 3: the expression of the art until the words sold is
2:42
Speaker 3: the best word that you can use to equate to
2:45
Speaker 3: it the abilities for it to mean something more than
2:51
Speaker 3: this last message that you heard talking about the same
2:54
Speaker 3: subject because it finds a fresh way to talk about
2:59
Speaker 3: common emotions and subject matters that can be relatable to anyone.
3:04
Speaker 3: And that was a gift inside of the times and
3:09
Speaker 3: the spirit of the music that was done at Staxe.
3:12
Speaker 3: that accomplish that goals quite effectively.
3:16
Speaker 2: I was very interested in your book, and we are
3:18
Speaker 2: talking about your book, Soul Man, which is a wonderful,
3:21
Speaker 2: wonderful book to read, and everybody should.
3:23
Speaker 3: Thank you.
3:24
Speaker 2: I was very interested that when you were working with
3:28
Speaker 2: Isaac Hayes, who was your great songwriting partner, you were
3:32
Speaker 2: very deliberate in how you set out to create a sound.
3:38
Speaker 2: You looked at other artists, Motown... Burt Bacharach and Hal David,
3:43
Speaker 2: and you said, okay, what can we bring to it
3:45
Speaker 2: that's different? Can you talk a little bit about that process?
3:47
Speaker 3: I thought it was fascinating. Coming up in the 40s
3:51
Speaker 3: and 50s, as Isaac and I did, we had the
3:56
Speaker 3: opportunity to see the transition of authenticness of Black talents,
4:02
Speaker 3: meaning that they found the greatest path to recognition for them.
4:08
Speaker 3: And that became what was something known as an identity
4:13
Speaker 3: for them. Motown, in the writing at Motown, exemplified that
4:17
Speaker 3: in a way that cracked America's consciousness open to being
4:21
Speaker 3: appreciative to music that was made by people that look
4:24
Speaker 3: like me, unlike anything else that had happened prior to that.
4:28
Speaker 3: Even though inside of the greatness of the Fats Dominoes
4:34
Speaker 3: and the Muddy Waters and the Chuck Berries, that uniqueness
4:38
Speaker 3: was also there. But it was evident, that those times
4:44
Speaker 3: of talents finding themselves in their own originality would be
4:48
Speaker 3: the means by which it would change the American appreciation
4:53
Speaker 3: for music coming from people that look like me. And
4:56
Speaker 3: that is really the meat of the merit of what
5:01
Speaker 3: this music has done throughout the world.
5:04
Speaker 2: And you were, a lot of people sort of put
5:07
Speaker 2: Stax and Motown against each other. like they're opposites. You
5:10
Speaker 2: liked Motown Records.
5:12
Speaker 3: I love what Motown was doing. Motown was able to
5:15
Speaker 3: take what I call the straight four beat, straight four,
5:20
Speaker 3: and put these beautiful melodies on top of them and
5:24
Speaker 3: make you feel that. And then when they wanted to
5:26
Speaker 3: get pretty with a little bit of strings or whatever,
5:28
Speaker 3: they were able to do that in the most effective way.
5:31
Speaker 3: Burt Bacharach, Hal Davis were able to take chord progressions
5:35
Speaker 3: and melody, intricate ways of going about finding uniqueness inside
5:39
Speaker 3: of their melodies and make it be so, so powerful
5:42
Speaker 3: and profound. Those two were the tempest of what we
5:47
Speaker 3: aspired to do, we being Isaac and I. But we
5:50
Speaker 3: knew that we cannot do Motown better than Motown, and
5:54
Speaker 3: we could certainly not do Rack-a-Rack Hal David better than
5:57
Speaker 3: they could. So we had to find an identity that could,
6:00
Speaker 3: in fact, work for us. That opportunity existed from the
6:04
Speaker 3: foundation that we got from the church and from that
6:07
Speaker 3: emotional merit that the spirituality of the church would give
6:11
Speaker 3: you when you would go to worship. And out of
6:14
Speaker 3: that came an appreciation for the rhythmic kinds of essences
6:19
Speaker 3: that came through the spirituality of people expressing themselves, not
6:23
Speaker 3: just through the song, but through the movements and the
6:26
Speaker 3: tempos that were set in those movements that gave you
6:29
Speaker 3: something to think about. Well, if that kind of action
6:32
Speaker 3: works in that kind of way, why not let us
6:34
Speaker 3: find a way to do that through the music that
6:36
Speaker 3: we would do that would not be competing with those
6:39
Speaker 3: that we respect, such as Motown. And so we found
6:42
Speaker 3: that that was existing on the low end through the bass, drums, guitar,
6:48
Speaker 3: and keyboards. And we found that the opportunity to create
6:52
Speaker 3: a signature line, as we call it, a musical part
6:56
Speaker 3: from that area and make that be a compliment in
6:59
Speaker 3: addition to the lyrical connotation, the merit of the melodies
7:04
Speaker 3: as well, would have an identity that could possibly create
7:07
Speaker 3: a niche for us. And we knew that that was
7:10
Speaker 3: the way to go when we did a record on
7:12
Speaker 3: Sam and Dave called You Don't Know Like I Know.
7:15
Speaker 3: That was the path that we should work to even
7:19
Speaker 3: perfect even more. We were attempting to do it, but
7:22
Speaker 3: we were not all in until we got the opportunity
7:25
Speaker 3: to try this on Sam and Dave.
7:28
Speaker 2: So what did you do on that song that you
7:29
Speaker 2: weren't able to do before?
7:31
Speaker 3: It was in the bass pattern, the bass line pattern
7:34
Speaker 3: on the song. That was a signature line happening with
7:37
Speaker 3: that bass pattern. There was a signature happening also with
7:42
Speaker 3: the horn patterns. We created melodies, singing melodies with the
7:46
Speaker 3: horn patterns that were also a little bit extended beyond
7:50
Speaker 3: what you would hear on other records, Motown and others
7:52
Speaker 3: as well. That was an avenue that we felt gave
7:56
Speaker 3: us an opportunity to have a lane that was unique
7:59
Speaker 3: for us.
8:00
Speaker 2: And you mentioned the floor-on-the-floor feel. Of Motown.
8:05
Speaker 3: Motown.
8:05
Speaker 2: You didn't have that though.
8:06
Speaker 3: No, no. The straightforward that Motown had, they would make
8:09
Speaker 3: the beat, make you feel the straightforward beat, but the
8:13
Speaker 3: melodies that they would do through the singers and the
8:15
Speaker 3: songs would create the movements for the accents or whatever
8:19
Speaker 3: they would want to do through that way. But they
8:21
Speaker 3: didn't overemphasize it through the musical instruments. And we did.
8:24
Speaker 3: That was a conscious effort on our part to do that.
8:28
Speaker 2: And so how did you, when you sat down, You
8:32
Speaker 2: and Isaac sat down, you wrote that song, and then
8:35
Speaker 2: how did you communicate that to the band? And the band,
8:38
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, was Al Jackson the drummer on that?
8:42
Speaker 3: Al Jackson Jr., Steve Cropper, Duck Dunn, some cases Booker T. Jones,
8:48
Speaker 3: other cases Isaac would be playing the keyboard. The Memphis
8:51
Speaker 3: horns would consist of Wayne Jackson and Andrew Love, and
8:55
Speaker 3: we would add, in most cases, a couple other players,
8:58
Speaker 3: different players, but always around Andrew and Wayne. That was
9:02
Speaker 3: the foundation of the uniqueness of Stax Records. And we
9:07
Speaker 3: used that to its fullest to also magnify what we
9:11
Speaker 3: saw was the individuality of us. Now, having to do
9:14
Speaker 3: that would be going into the studio, giving each musician
9:18
Speaker 3: the parts that created, as I mentioned to you, the
9:21
Speaker 3: emphasis that we were going for on the low end.
9:24
Speaker 3: And Otis Redding was the artist that perfected this technique,
9:28
Speaker 3: but we had it as well. But Otis was perfect
9:30
Speaker 3: at it. And that is going around the room, giving
9:33
Speaker 3: the identical lines that you wanted the bass player to play,
9:37
Speaker 3: the guitar player to play, the essence of the drum,
9:40
Speaker 3: percussive kind of direction to go in for Al, and
9:44
Speaker 3: then to put those together and make it marry the
9:46
Speaker 3: personality that you were trying to find inside of the song.
9:49
Speaker 3: So we did what we call head arrangement. That is,
9:52
Speaker 3: after we would write a song, and this happened with
9:55
Speaker 3: everybody at Stax over time, we would go into the
9:58
Speaker 3: studio and let the uniqueness of the personality of the
10:01
Speaker 3: song come through, not only through the melody and the lyrics,
10:05
Speaker 3: but in the music that would accompany it.
10:08
Speaker 2: Did the band members, when you worked with them, did
10:11
Speaker 2: they contribute some of their own things to it? Or
10:14
Speaker 2: were they kind of doing what you said?
10:17
Speaker 3: Any of the patterns that we would give out had
10:20
Speaker 3: to be played to the trueness of the pattern. But
10:22
Speaker 3: inside of any pattern, as you well know with music,
10:25
Speaker 3: you have the opportunity to, to have a little bit
10:27
Speaker 3: of your persona and your personality, because the only way
10:30
Speaker 3: you can make it have the feel that it has
10:32
Speaker 3: is you have to believe in what you're doing. And
10:34
Speaker 3: the only way you can do that is feel that
10:36
Speaker 3: you're connected in a personal way to doing it. And
10:38
Speaker 3: so that was a part of it as well. So certainly,
10:42
Speaker 3: but each of the patterns were patterns that were thought
10:44
Speaker 3: out in order to have freshness and uniqueness for these
10:48
Speaker 3: musical parts. You had to have, because you had basically
10:52
Speaker 3: the same players playing a personality and a persona, from
10:56
Speaker 3: artist to artist, song to song, if not everything would
10:59
Speaker 3: end up sounding alike. And so we had to magnify
11:02
Speaker 3: the efforts to be sure that we were accomplishing that goal.
11:06
Speaker 2: So you would have different ideas for Carla Thomas than
11:10
Speaker 2: you would for Sam and Dave or for the emotions.
11:12
Speaker 3: On purpose and with the surety that in order to
11:15
Speaker 3: have a chance to make the music have connection in
11:19
Speaker 3: the marketplace, there are no new emotions. You have to
11:22
Speaker 3: find a fresh way to talk about common emotions through songs.
11:26
Speaker 3: In order to do that, you have to look for
11:28
Speaker 3: fresh ways in every aspect of it to do it.
11:30
Speaker 3: And inside of the book, I talk about that extensively
11:33
Speaker 3: because it's so important for people to understand that as
11:36
Speaker 3: great as we were with what we attempted to do
11:38
Speaker 3: at Stax Records, it was not something that we just
11:41
Speaker 3: haphazardly went into the studio to do. We had so
11:44
Speaker 3: many artists to work with. We had to think through
11:46
Speaker 3: processes in order to have a value for every artist
11:51
Speaker 3: that the public would get a chance to hear in
11:52
Speaker 3: the marketplace. And we were passionate about that.
11:55
Speaker 2: So when you were writing, were you always writing with
11:58
Speaker 2: a certain group in mind?
11:59
Speaker 3: Every time.
12:00
Speaker 2: Because at Motown, they would write a song and say, well,
12:02
Speaker 2: this would be good for Martha Reeve. This would be
12:04
Speaker 2: good for Diana Ross.
12:06
Speaker 3: No. No. No, we had to personify the uniqueness of personalities.
12:11
Speaker 3: We want identity artists that we would work with. The
12:15
Speaker 3: artists that we worked with and we were passionate about
12:18
Speaker 3: all had Their personal identity that could stand on its
12:22
Speaker 3: own and what they needed to have to magnify that
12:26
Speaker 3: was the right kind of material to help them to
12:28
Speaker 3: do that. So we knew if we would sit down
12:31
Speaker 3: to write a song for, hypothetically, Johnny Taylor, we knew
12:35
Speaker 3: why we would take it a particular direction to do
12:38
Speaker 3: it a certain kind of way on Johnny Taylor. By
12:41
Speaker 3: the same token, we would do the same thing with
12:43
Speaker 3: Sam and Dave. or if we were working on a
12:45
Speaker 3: song for Albert King, or we would go to the
12:48
Speaker 3: other end of the spectrum and work on a song
12:50
Speaker 3: for The Emotions or The Soul Tour. And we knew
12:54
Speaker 3: that we had to capture their true essence, but also
12:57
Speaker 3: not lose the abilities of being sure that we're not
13:01
Speaker 3: replicating something that we would have done on some other
13:03
Speaker 3: artists the day before.
13:05
Speaker 2: So, for example, Johnny Taylor, who had a huge hit
13:07
Speaker 2: with Who's Making Love.
13:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
13:10
Speaker 2: What would you do on a Johnny Taylor record, say,
13:12
Speaker 2: compared to a Sam and Dave record?
13:14
Speaker 3: Well, on the Johnny Taylor record, that was produced by
13:18
Speaker 3: a gentleman by the name of Don Davis. But Don
13:21
Speaker 3: couldn't get what we call the final master take on Johnny.
13:25
Speaker 3: And so he got Isaac and I to help him
13:28
Speaker 3: with that record. So Isaac did the horn arrangements on
13:32
Speaker 3: Who's Making Love. I did the vocal arrangement with Johnny Taylor.
13:36
Speaker 3: And with Johnny Taylor, I knew that part of his arrangements,
13:40
Speaker 3: identity rather, that worked well for him, for him to
13:42
Speaker 3: have signatures and inside of words or inside of what
13:48
Speaker 3: we call a squall or a vocal sound that sounds
13:51
Speaker 3: like a scream. And on Who's Making Love, I gave
13:55
Speaker 3: him a line that said, hear me now. And he
13:57
Speaker 3: screamed that, hear me now, at the very top of
13:59
Speaker 3: the record. And he screamed it a couple of times
14:01
Speaker 3: in the record. That was calculated and on purpose. And
14:04
Speaker 3: so in the horn parts that gave that track energy,
14:09
Speaker 3: that was Isaac Hayes.
14:10
Speaker 2: He wrote all the horn parts, right?
14:13
Speaker 3: On that particular song. The song was not written by us,
14:16
Speaker 3: but at Stax Records, we had a thing about trying
14:18
Speaker 3: to help everybody to have success because fortunately for Isaac
14:22
Speaker 3: and I, we were fortunate enough to have success just
14:25
Speaker 3: on everything we worked on.
14:27
Speaker 2: Did you ever write the horn parts?
14:29
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I meant by head arrangement. We would
14:32
Speaker 3: come up with horn parts by head arrangement. Isaac didn't
14:35
Speaker 3: sit down and write a horn chart. We'd come up
14:37
Speaker 3: with the parts inside of the room. So I would
14:39
Speaker 3: come up with some parts as well, But Isaac was
14:42
Speaker 3: more profound at that than anyone. Anyone associated with Stax Records.
14:46
Speaker 3: No one can compete with Isaac Hayes on horn parts.
14:49
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking of the, it's one of the signature
14:52
Speaker 2: horn parts of all time that starts Hold On, I'm Coming.
14:56
Speaker 3: That was Isaac. Matter of fact, that horn part on
14:59
Speaker 3: Hold On, I'm Coming, Isaac had that down a couple
15:02
Speaker 3: weeks before we even came up with the idea of
15:04
Speaker 3: Hold On, I'm Coming. That idea came about when we
15:08
Speaker 3: were out at a club one night just jamming and
15:11
Speaker 3: and having fun, we would leave a club, go back
15:14
Speaker 3: to the recording studio, work on writing songs late at night.
15:19
Speaker 3: Many nights we would do that. And one of the
15:21
Speaker 3: nights was Hold On, I'm Coming, and I went to
15:23
Speaker 3: the restroom, and Isaac was trying to rush me out. Well,
15:26
Speaker 3: he screamed, hey, man, hurry up. And I screamed, hold on,
15:28
Speaker 3: I'm coming. I came out of the restroom and said, hey, buddy,
15:30
Speaker 3: I got one. He said, what? I said, hold on,
15:32
Speaker 3: I'm coming. And we talked about the concept and sat
15:35
Speaker 3: down and talking about it. He said, I have a
15:38
Speaker 3: horn pattern that could work on that. And he played
15:41
Speaker 3: that horn pattern for me. And we talked about a
15:44
Speaker 3: rescue song. And in 20 minutes, we wrote Hold On,
15:46
Speaker 3: I'm Coming.
15:47
Speaker 2: Now you say a rescue song. Is that how you
15:49
Speaker 2: talked about it back then?
15:51
Speaker 1: Right.
15:51
Speaker 3: We were motivated off of the TV show Superman. Yeah.
15:57
Speaker 3: We were really motivated off of that small TV screen.
16:01
Speaker 3: And during that time, Superman was a big hit on television.
16:06
Speaker 3: So the concept was a rescue song. And that's why
16:09
Speaker 3: Isaac said, hey, I got this horn pattern that sounds
16:13
Speaker 3: like a fanfare for rescue. And that was where that pattern,
16:16
Speaker 3: we had that pattern before we started writing the song. Wow.
16:19
Speaker 2: So it was a restroom song that became a rescue song.
16:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you're telling me? Yes.
16:24
Speaker 3: Okay.
16:25
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to ask you one more question about
16:28
Speaker 2: influences at that time, which is on one of your
16:31
Speaker 2: own albums, and I think it's the opera album.
16:35
Speaker 3: Victim of the Joke.
16:36
Speaker 2: Victim of the Joke. You do a great... great rolling
16:40
Speaker 2: cover of Help by the Beatles.
16:43
Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Thank you.
16:44
Speaker 2: Love that.
16:44
Speaker 3: I love that version.
16:46
Speaker 2: Were you influenced by the Beatles at all at that time,
16:48
Speaker 2: or was it too early for them to make an impact?
16:51
Speaker 3: No, the Beatles were quite impactful. I thought their writing
16:55
Speaker 3: was really, really special. This was 1972, 73 when I
16:58
Speaker 3: recorded that album, and they had already been superstars And
17:06
Speaker 3: their writing was already validated as unbelievably great. And we
17:10
Speaker 3: had artists that wanted to record and cover some of
17:12
Speaker 3: the Beatles songs. By the way, the Beatles had already
17:15
Speaker 3: approached Jim Stewart about coming to Saks to record. The
17:19
Speaker 3: only reason they didn't is the word got out that
17:22
Speaker 3: they were going to. That was something I wanted to do.
17:25
Speaker 3: I wanted to do a song by the Beatles. That
17:27
Speaker 3: was one of those head arrangements things that I was
17:29
Speaker 3: talking about. Now, after doing the head arrangements for the
17:33
Speaker 3: rhythm of the song, I did sit down with a
17:37
Speaker 3: string and horn arranger and hummed out parts for him
17:40
Speaker 3: to put on the charts of that. And I did that.
17:44
Speaker 3: And all of those parts were head arrangement parts. But
17:49
Speaker 3: that was wanting to take the song in a direction
17:53
Speaker 3: that was more like my kind of energy, but also
17:56
Speaker 3: trying not to embarrass myself by doing a weak version
17:59
Speaker 3: of something of one of the greatest artists who had lived.
18:02
Speaker 3: That was a passion for me. I had such great
18:04
Speaker 3: respect for those guys writing.
18:05
Speaker 2: And then your friend, Maurice White, ended up covering them
18:09
Speaker 2: a little bit with Earth, Wind.
18:10
Speaker 3: & Fire, too. Well, the interesting thing in my book,
18:14
Speaker 3: I talk about this. Maurice and I came from the
18:16
Speaker 3: same day at Inn Street in Memphis, Tennessee, singing at
18:20
Speaker 3: that church, Rose Hill Baptist Church, being influenced by the church,
18:25
Speaker 3: and understanding the value of crystallizing a concept if you
18:29
Speaker 3: wanted to do music. And he took the concept part
18:33
Speaker 3: of that, and I talk about how he vetted the
18:36
Speaker 3: title of Earth, Wind, and Fire with me and how
18:41
Speaker 3: we went through me going to Los Angeles and him,
18:44
Speaker 3: we walking up Sunset Boulevard, and he explained the concept
18:47
Speaker 3: of that. But we both understood the value of being
18:52
Speaker 3: sure that you find a fresh way to talk about
18:55
Speaker 3: common emotions lyrically, melodically, and musically. And so that was
19:01
Speaker 3: a part of that. He perfected it with Earth, Wind,
19:04
Speaker 3: and Fire. I like to think Isaac and I perfected
19:07
Speaker 3: it with what we were doing at Stacks Records.
19:08
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going back to that dead-end street where you
19:11
Speaker 2: grew up. How many siblings did you have?
19:15
Speaker 3: Twelve.
19:15
Speaker 2: Twelve siblings.
19:16
Speaker 3: You're right.
19:16
Speaker 2: But your father died when you were.
19:18
Speaker 3: My father died when I was two.
19:19
Speaker 2: And is it true that you never saw a photo
19:22
Speaker 2: of your father?
19:22
Speaker 3: I have never seen a photo of my father to
19:24
Speaker 3: this day. What was happening is he worked at IC Railroad,
19:29
Speaker 3: hard-working man. Big family was not a lot of money
19:32
Speaker 3: in the 40s, not for the Porter family. And so
19:37
Speaker 3: the last thing that was thought about, I would imagine,
19:40
Speaker 3: would be let's get a camera to take pictures. So
19:44
Speaker 3: it was about survival. And so there was no way
19:48
Speaker 3: for him to know that he would pass. He passed
19:50
Speaker 3: in his 40s. He was 43 years old when he died.
19:54
Speaker 3: And so certainly not thinking about leaving the earth that young.
19:59
Speaker 3: And so I would imagine over time he may would
20:01
Speaker 3: have had some. But no, I've never seen a picture
20:03
Speaker 3: of him. The family that lived next door to me
20:06
Speaker 3: was the Cunningham family. That street was the dead end
20:09
Speaker 3: street was full of of creativeness, in my opinion. Maurice
20:12
Speaker 3: White right across the street from me from my house.
20:15
Speaker 3: The Cunningham family next door door to me. Carl Cunningham
20:19
Speaker 3: was the drummer of a group called the Bar Cays.
20:21
Speaker 3: He also was the drummer that perished in the airplane
20:24
Speaker 3: crash with Otis Redding. So on that street was the
20:28
Speaker 3: Bar Cays, Earth, Wind & Fire, and the producers at
20:31
Speaker 3: Stax Records, one of them, and David Porter.
20:34
Speaker 2: That's a pretty good dead-end street.
20:36
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good dead-end street.
20:39
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from David Porter after
20:41
Speaker 1: the break.
20:46
Speaker 2: You mentioned the church because... What fascinated me in your book,
20:50
Speaker 2: because there was so much talent in Memphis, but you wonder,
20:54
Speaker 2: a lot of that talent could have gone to waste.
20:57
Speaker 2: But there were institutions that seemed to really kind of
21:00
Speaker 2: nurture you and a lot of the people who ended
21:03
Speaker 2: up at Stax. You mentioned the church. Was that your
21:05
Speaker 2: mother's church that she went to?
21:07
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely so.
21:09
Speaker 2: So that was the church everybody went to, because I'm
21:11
Speaker 2: sure she made sure of that.
21:12
Speaker 3: That was the place right there.
21:14
Speaker 2: And now did you sing... In the choir at church,
21:16
Speaker 2: did you sing solos?
21:17
Speaker 3: It was a very, very small choir. Maurice Kelly and
21:21
Speaker 3: Leanna Cunningham, the brothers of Carl, we were the ones
21:25
Speaker 3: that were singing in that small choir.
21:27
Speaker 2: Now, do you have a favorite song from back then
21:29
Speaker 2: that you remember from that?
21:30
Speaker 3: Amazing Grace was a staple of all of the Baptist
21:34
Speaker 3: churches back in those days. And that was just one
21:38
Speaker 3: of those things. And when I was coming up at
21:40
Speaker 3: a very, very young age, there were standard hymn songs
21:44
Speaker 3: that were sung more than anything else. As time went on,
21:47
Speaker 3: by the time you get to the latter part of
21:50
Speaker 3: the 50s, there were more gospel artists coming up with
21:53
Speaker 3: more original songs, more original songs that had more melodic stretches,
21:58
Speaker 3: melodically and musically, and it became a different world. So
22:01
Speaker 3: now I'm singing in high school in church, the songs
22:04
Speaker 3: were different. But on that day at Inn Street, it
22:07
Speaker 3: was mostly Amazing Grace and those kinds of standard kinds
22:13
Speaker 3: of gospel singing that was permeated throughout most of the
22:17
Speaker 3: churches of the times.
22:18
Speaker 2: Did anybody say, wow, David, you've got a great voice?
22:22
Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, I never heard anybody say it, but
22:26
Speaker 3: it did not stop Maurice White David Porter and Leanne
22:29
Speaker 3: and Kelly Cunningham from thinking that we had great voices
22:31
Speaker 3: because we thought people were reacting to us in the
22:34
Speaker 3: church based on what was going on during the services.
22:38
Speaker 3: We didn't realize until later when our mothers told us
22:41
Speaker 3: to shut up, the people were worshiping because we thought
22:44
Speaker 3: it was about us. We thought we were great singers.
22:46
Speaker 3: But the church gave us as youngsters confidence to be
22:50
Speaker 3: comfortable and confident being in the presence of people and
22:54
Speaker 3: showing what you had in your talent pool.
22:57
Speaker 2: And were you singing in harmony back then?
23:00
Speaker 3: You had the opportunity to learn those kind of traits very,
23:04
Speaker 3: very young. Yes, you could sing in harmonies. You could
23:07
Speaker 3: sing with attitude. You could sing with range and all
23:11
Speaker 3: of those because you heard so much of that. There
23:14
Speaker 3: was so much talent in our communities during those times.
23:18
Speaker 3: You heard so many examples of those people who were
23:23
Speaker 3: stretching themselves to find themselves through song. And that motivates
23:27
Speaker 3: you to try to find yourself. So yes, homities and
23:31
Speaker 3: range and baritone and tenors and sopranos and altos was
23:36
Speaker 3: a common trait for any and everyone to sing.
23:40
Speaker 2: Did you learn to read music then?
23:42
Speaker 3: None of us read music. Really? We didn't have the
23:44
Speaker 3: opportunities to have music class. At Stax Records, Isaac did
23:49
Speaker 3: not read music. David Porter didn't read music. None of
23:52
Speaker 3: the folk at Stax Records. We all did head arrangements.
23:55
Speaker 3: and learn to play just by playing. I was not
23:59
Speaker 3: a person that grabbed an instrument. I wanted to play trumpet,
24:01
Speaker 3: and I started with a trumpet and put it down
24:03
Speaker 3: quickly because I wanted to be a singing star. Maurice
24:06
Speaker 3: started beating cans and things such as that, and he
24:09
Speaker 3: wanted to be a drummer. By the time he got
24:11
Speaker 3: in high school, he was playing drums in a band.
24:13
Speaker 3: I was singing on talent shows. But as far as
24:16
Speaker 3: reading and going through a lot of that, no, that
24:20
Speaker 3: was not the case.
24:21
Speaker 2: Now, was it true that your first talent show you
24:23
Speaker 2: sang a Paul Anka song?
24:26
Speaker 3: I flunked on the talent show because I was in
24:29
Speaker 3: high school, the ninth grade, and that was not the
24:32
Speaker 3: first talent show I sang on, but that was the
24:35
Speaker 3: first high school talent show I sang on. And here
24:38
Speaker 3: I was thinking that I was such a huge fan
24:41
Speaker 3: of that song called Diana by Paul Anka. And I'm
24:44
Speaker 3: thinking that I'm going to sing Diana on this talent show. Now,
24:48
Speaker 3: mind you, the radio station that was now playing black
24:52
Speaker 3: music in Memphis, WDIA-NC, It already started. It started in 1947, 48.
24:58
Speaker 3: By the time we get to the late 50s, 59,
25:01
Speaker 3: I had enough music in my coffers to grab some
25:04
Speaker 3: of those songs that were played on DIA. But I
25:06
Speaker 3: was such a fan of beautiful melodies and lyric and
25:10
Speaker 3: all of that. And I just looked at songs and songs.
25:13
Speaker 3: I thought I would take that song and do it
25:15
Speaker 3: on a talent show. And I bummed. I could not
25:20
Speaker 3: believe that no one responded to me whatsoever singing Diana.
25:25
Speaker 3: And the reason being was people were getting on the
25:28
Speaker 3: stage singing Bobby Blue Bland songs, singing Ted Taylor songs,
25:34
Speaker 3: and some of the great R & B artists and
25:36
Speaker 3: David Porter got on the stage singing a pretty beautiful song,
25:41
Speaker 3: which had very little connectivity to it, to that audience.
25:44
Speaker 2: Written by a kid from Ottawa, Canada.
25:48
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:50
Speaker 2: There were some amazing talents at that school. Is that
25:53
Speaker 2: where you met Booker T?
25:55
Speaker 3: Booker T. Jones was two years behind Maurice White and I.
25:59
Speaker 3: William Bell was two years in front of Maurice and I.
26:02
Speaker 2: Who sang You Don't Miss Your Water.
26:05
Speaker 3: You Don't Miss Your Water. Andrew Love, the leader of
26:08
Speaker 3: the Memphis Horns, was two years above us. Al Jackson
26:13
Speaker 3: was four years above us in high school. Rufus Thomas,
26:16
Speaker 3: many years before us, went to Booker T. Washington High School.
26:21
Speaker 3: a school so rich in talent. Isaac Hayes, who we
26:25
Speaker 3: were friends only from talent shows that were held on
26:29
Speaker 3: Beale Street at a movie theater called the Palace Theater
26:32
Speaker 3: when you sing on Wednesday nights trying to win $ 3
26:35
Speaker 3: for first place. He was a product of a Manassas
26:39
Speaker 3: High School, which was on the other side of the city,
26:43
Speaker 3: and they were known for their emphasis around jazz. Music
26:47
Speaker 3: in schools and and the like, that's such an important thing.
26:51
Speaker 3: It's a shame when schools don't really, really push to
26:54
Speaker 3: have that as a common thing in our educational systems.
26:58
Speaker 2: But you didn't take an instrument in high school. You
27:00
Speaker 2: just sang, right?
27:01
Speaker 3: No, I wanted to be Clyde McFetter. And I put
27:04
Speaker 3: the trumpet down, any thoughts of that, and I wanted
27:07
Speaker 3: to be a singer. And that's what I pursued passionately.
27:11
Speaker 2: You mentioned another great Memphis institution, which was WEIA. I
27:16
Speaker 2: think it was the first... radio station in the U.S.
27:19
Speaker 2: that primarily focused on a Black audience.
27:22
Speaker 3: It was the very first. WDIA was the first African-American
27:27
Speaker 3: radio station in the United States of America who had
27:30
Speaker 3: an emphasis totally around Black music. And that was the
27:34
Speaker 3: beginning of us in 47, 48, Maurice White, Isaac Hayes,
27:40
Speaker 3: David Porter, learning about the power of individuality in artists
27:44
Speaker 3: who found a way to show their own uniqueness by
27:47
Speaker 3: the way they created melodies by the way they played instruments,
27:52
Speaker 3: by the way they sang songs. And that told us
27:56
Speaker 3: that if you want to have a chance to be
27:57
Speaker 3: successful in music, you got to find the individuality seed
28:01
Speaker 3: that exists in everyone and magnify that to the extent
28:05
Speaker 3: that people can feel you, that you're comfortable with it,
28:08
Speaker 3: you're passionate with it, and you're also effective as you
28:10
Speaker 3: do it.
28:11
Speaker 2: Who are some of the artists you remember listening to
28:13
Speaker 2: and being moved by?
28:14
Speaker 3: Oh, Fats Domino is one. Mm-hmm. Johnny Ace is another.
28:22
Speaker 3: Ray Charles, needless to say, is another. The Moonglows and Lil'
28:27
Speaker 3: Anthony and Imperials are others. I mean, there was Benny
28:31
Speaker 3: King in the very late stages of my career when
28:34
Speaker 3: I'm starting to really get some traction was another. There
28:37
Speaker 3: were so many great, great talents. Right before I graduated
28:40
Speaker 3: from high school, the record that emotionally just moved me
28:44
Speaker 3: to the hilt was a record by a group called
28:47
Speaker 3: The Impressions. It was led by a guy by the
28:49
Speaker 3: name of Jerry Butler, and the song was For Your
28:51
Speaker 3: Precious Love. And I walked from my home to the
28:56
Speaker 3: radio station where Jerry Butler came to Memphis and was
28:58
Speaker 3: being interviewed at WLOK radio station. He was 19 years old,
29:03
Speaker 3: and I asked him when he came out of the
29:05
Speaker 3: radio station, would he mind telling me how to get
29:08
Speaker 3: in music business? What's the best way? And he wasn't
29:11
Speaker 3: that much older than I, but he had this massive
29:14
Speaker 3: hit record, For Your Precious Love, with the impression, And
29:16
Speaker 3: he told me to be diversified. And I kept that
29:20
Speaker 3: word with me always. And I first found out the
29:23
Speaker 3: true meaning of what being diversified meant. And I made
29:26
Speaker 3: sure that I knew more than just singing. I started
29:29
Speaker 3: really emphasizing the writing possibilities and finding out what other
29:33
Speaker 3: kind of areas of music that one could get into
29:36
Speaker 3: to be a part of it. And so that was
29:39
Speaker 3: all a part of it. But the radio station WDIA
29:42
Speaker 3: set the template for you to understand the power of individuality.
29:48
Speaker 2: And they had DJs like Rufus Thomas, B.B. King.
29:51
Speaker 3: Nat D. Williams. B.B. King was one. Nat D. Williams
29:55
Speaker 3: was the first African-American DJ hired at WDIA. And he
30:00
Speaker 3: was also a high school teacher. He taught at Booker T.
30:03
Speaker 3: Washington High School history. He was also my teacher at
30:06
Speaker 3: Booker T. Washington High School history. He was a great,
30:09
Speaker 3: great man. The amazing thing about WDIA, the people they hired,
30:13
Speaker 3: they may not have been aware of it totally. I
30:15
Speaker 3: don't think they were. But the people they hired were educators.
30:19
Speaker 3: So these were people that would go into the persona
30:21
Speaker 3: of a personality or uniqueness for the performance of the
30:25
Speaker 3: radio station and then come off of that and go
30:27
Speaker 3: to a school and teach kids English, algebra, whatever. And
30:33
Speaker 3: so the power of that was something that resonated in
30:36
Speaker 3: an unbelievable way for us.
30:38
Speaker 2: You know, another great institution, if you want to call
30:40
Speaker 2: it that, in Memphis was Beale Street with all the bars.
30:43
Speaker 2: When did you start singing there?
30:45
Speaker 3: Well, the truth is, when I mentioned a day in
30:48
Speaker 3: the street that I talked about and the talents that
30:51
Speaker 3: were on that street, all of the talents that were
30:53
Speaker 3: on that street, we could walk from our homes up
30:56
Speaker 3: to Beale Street, which is not even a mile away.
30:59
Speaker 3: So Maurice and I would walk to Beale Street. We
31:02
Speaker 3: were too young to go in the clubs. But we
31:04
Speaker 3: would see people on the street dressing these amazing suits
31:08
Speaker 3: and looking all sharp and everything. You would see some
31:11
Speaker 3: stars when they would come into town during the course
31:15
Speaker 3: of the late afternoons. We were out of school. We
31:17
Speaker 3: would see them walking into these clubs with instruments. And
31:21
Speaker 3: some of the artists were going for rehearsals. And that
31:23
Speaker 3: was so amazingly fascinating. And Beale Street was a street
31:28
Speaker 3: that had all of the great entertainers walking. who would
31:31
Speaker 3: come to perform on that street. All of the clubs
31:34
Speaker 3: were loaded on the street with high-level entertainment. And that's
31:39
Speaker 3: one of the reasons why a young man by the
31:41
Speaker 3: name of Elvis Presley would be hanging around those clubs
31:44
Speaker 3: meeting people. And this was during the times of segregation.
31:48
Speaker 3: Elvis Presley, I didn't know he was Elvis Presley at
31:50
Speaker 3: the time, but I saw this white guy on the
31:53
Speaker 3: street quite often when we would walk up there, and
31:56
Speaker 3: it was Elvis. And so it was one of those
31:59
Speaker 3: things where A young kid with a passion for music
32:04
Speaker 3: had kinds of potential influences that resonated with him in
32:07
Speaker 3: meaningful ways. And Beale Street was one of those streets
32:10
Speaker 3: that played a key role in that. There was a
32:13
Speaker 3: theater on the street, the Palisade, that would have talent
32:16
Speaker 3: shows every Wednesday night for young kids who were in
32:19
Speaker 3: high school to come and sing on the talent shows
32:22
Speaker 3: that show their talent wares. And that also was one
32:25
Speaker 3: of the great pluses. That's how I really got to
32:28
Speaker 3: know Isaac Hayes very well. He had a vocal group
32:31
Speaker 3: called the Teen Tones, and I had a vocal group
32:34
Speaker 3: called the Marquettes. And we would compete on Wednesday nights
32:37
Speaker 3: for $ 2 and $ 3 trying to win the first prize.
32:40
Speaker 2: Were you singing kind of classic doo-wop?
32:43
Speaker 3: What were you singing? Without a doubt. Isaac was a
32:45
Speaker 3: bass singer with his group. There was a record called
32:49
Speaker 3: Get a Job that the bass would do that was
32:53
Speaker 3: highly noted. And I had a song called Come to Me,
32:56
Speaker 3: Darling by the Dale Vikings that I used to sing.
32:59
Speaker 3: I won first prize with that. He won first prize
33:02
Speaker 3: with Get a Job. Isaac and I used to talk
33:04
Speaker 3: about that. We remember those two songs because they worked
33:07
Speaker 3: for us in that setting at the Palace Theater.
33:10
Speaker 2: Now, did you know when you were doing those shows,
33:14
Speaker 2: this is what I want to do, I want to
33:15
Speaker 2: do music?
33:16
Speaker 3: I knew that I was passionate about it. I didn't
33:18
Speaker 3: understand with total clarity how to get in it. I
33:21
Speaker 3: knew I wanted to get in it. I knew I
33:23
Speaker 3: wanted to find out more about it. So I knew
33:26
Speaker 3: I had the passion for that. more than anything else.
33:30
Speaker 3: I just didn't know the path that it would take
33:32
Speaker 3: to make it work. I did, as I mentioned to you,
33:35
Speaker 3: Jerry Butler saying, be diversified and all those kinds of
33:39
Speaker 3: things that would happen as examples and things I would see.
33:43
Speaker 3: But I was passionate about a desire for that. Over time,
33:47
Speaker 3: that passion grew and looked for opportunities to make it
33:51
Speaker 3: be manifested in things that I could take action on.
33:54
Speaker 3: And eventually it did with the day that This kid
33:58
Speaker 3: working at a grocery store walked across the street for
34:00
Speaker 3: these people who were recording country records called Satellite Records.
34:04
Speaker 3: He convinced them to do music that ultimately became a
34:08
Speaker 3: record company called Stax Records.
34:10
Speaker 2: So tell me about that day. You had a young
34:13
Speaker 2: family by that point.
34:14
Speaker 3: Yes.
34:14
Speaker 2: You were working very hard. You were working at two
34:16
Speaker 2: supermarkets in town.
34:17
Speaker 3: Right.
34:17
Speaker 2: And then across the street from the theater that became Stax.
34:21
Speaker 3: Yes. Well, I was a curious kid. And as I'm working,
34:26
Speaker 3: I'm now right out of high school. I still got
34:29
Speaker 3: a job now because I got a family member response before.
34:33
Speaker 3: And I'm going across the street to find out more
34:35
Speaker 3: about this place. And they were doing country music. They
34:38
Speaker 3: had two artists, Charles Hines and Nick Charles. Nick Charles
34:43
Speaker 3: was a disc jockey out of St. Louis. Charles Hines
34:46
Speaker 3: was a local singer out of Memphis. And I worked
34:49
Speaker 3: on trying to convince Jim Stewart to consider letting me
34:52
Speaker 3: have an audition there. And his sister was running a
34:55
Speaker 3: record store that was connected to this movie theater. And
34:59
Speaker 3: I found that it's much easier for me to go
35:02
Speaker 3: in her record store every day to try to talk
35:05
Speaker 3: to her, listen to music, learn new songs that I
35:09
Speaker 3: would want to sing at a club to try to
35:11
Speaker 3: make two or three dollars a night. And that's how
35:13
Speaker 3: I developed a relationship with her that ultimately ended up
35:17
Speaker 3: her convincing Jim Stewart to let me do the audition
35:20
Speaker 3: that changed this country label into an R & B
35:23
Speaker 3: label and changed David Porter into a songwriter producer. She
35:27
Speaker 3: was a beautifully kind lady.
35:29
Speaker 2: Estelle.
35:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, Estelle Laxton, who was the AX of Stax. Jim
35:34
Speaker 3: Stewart was ST of Stax. AX, his sister, was Estelle Laxton,
35:40
Speaker 3: her married name. And so she was a beautiful lady.
35:43
Speaker 3: And many of us who had to experience the Stax
35:45
Speaker 3: records give her a lot of credit for the beauty
35:48
Speaker 3: that she showed at a time of trying times in
35:51
Speaker 3: this country. And she encouraged some kids to look like us,
35:54
Speaker 3: that there was a means to an end for us.
35:57
Speaker 3: And she made sure that her brother took the time
36:00
Speaker 3: to listen. And he listened to his advantage that worked
36:04
Speaker 3: out quite well for him.
36:05
Speaker 2: And then you became, I mean, you were a singer.
36:09
Speaker 2: You started producing. You didn't know anything about producing, though,
36:12
Speaker 2: did you?
36:12
Speaker 3: I didn't even know what the word meant. But I
36:15
Speaker 3: started learning singing. about what those things were. When Isaac
36:18
Speaker 3: and I first started producing records, our names were not
36:21
Speaker 3: put on the records. I have to be honest, Jim
36:24
Speaker 3: Stewart put produced by staff on several records when all
36:29
Speaker 3: the time Isaac Hayes and David Porter were producing those records.
36:32
Speaker 3: But as we learned about those steps of what the
36:35
Speaker 3: business was, we then learned how to say, well, look,
36:38
Speaker 3: we are the producers of the records, our names and
36:41
Speaker 3: our royalties have to be associated with that. So we
36:44
Speaker 3: started making changes. with that success, but we came in
36:47
Speaker 3: green and learning what those things meant and how to
36:51
Speaker 3: make them have merit for us, including the publishing and
36:54
Speaker 3: writing and all those kinds of things.
36:57
Speaker 2: But you were more than the sum of your parts
37:02
Speaker 2: at Stacks. You were this kind of connector. You brought
37:05
Speaker 2: in your friends from high school. You brought in Maurice.
37:08
Speaker 2: Did you bring in Booker T. Jones as well?
37:11
Speaker 3: I brought Booker T. Jones in to play the demo
37:13
Speaker 3: with me. that I did for my audition. But after that,
37:17
Speaker 3: when Jim Stewart was impressed by a guy by the
37:20
Speaker 3: name of Rufus Thomas to record a song with him
37:23
Speaker 3: and his daughter, Jim didn't know how to put a
37:26
Speaker 3: band together. He had just opened himself up to consider
37:29
Speaker 3: doing something with talents that looked like black books, because
37:33
Speaker 3: they were. And I got Booker T. Jones out of
37:37
Speaker 3: high school to come and play baritone horn on that record,
37:41
Speaker 3: as well as some other people. The baritone horn on
37:44
Speaker 3: the record that got the attention nationally for Stax Records,
37:48
Speaker 3: a song called Cause I Love You by Rufus and Carla.
37:52
Speaker 3: The baritone horn player on that record was Booker T. Jones.
37:56
Speaker 3: And if you read Booker T. 's book, you'll see
37:58
Speaker 3: him talking about that in his book. And if you
38:01
Speaker 3: read The Soul Man, Life of Songwriter David Porter, I'm
38:04
Speaker 3: talking about it in mine, too, because that was really
38:07
Speaker 3: the beginning of the transition of Stax Records into Stax.
38:11
Speaker 3: a soul label.
38:12
Speaker 2: And when you say you called him out of school,
38:13
Speaker 2: he literally missed a class at school to come and
38:15
Speaker 2: do that session.
38:16
Speaker 3: I literally went to school. It was a school I
38:18
Speaker 3: graduated from, and I was popular in high school. And
38:21
Speaker 3: I talked to Mr. Martin, who was the band director,
38:23
Speaker 3: and told him that I had an opportunity for Booker T.
38:27
Speaker 3: Jones to make a record, and he helped me get
38:29
Speaker 3: him out of school.
38:30
Speaker 2: Amazing. So what was it like working with Isaac Hayes?
38:33
Speaker 2: Did you have your own writing room, or did you
38:35
Speaker 2: work in the studio?
38:37
Speaker 3: We started out in the studio, but we became... Poplar
38:40
Speaker 3: needed us to say quite quickly, and we ended up
38:43
Speaker 3: having our own office.
38:44
Speaker 2: And it had a piano?
38:46
Speaker 3: It had a piano in there, office desk and a
38:48
Speaker 3: piano in there, and we would work in our writing room.
38:52
Speaker 2: So how would you write together? Neither of you wrote music.
38:55
Speaker 2: He would be at the piano.
38:56
Speaker 3: We would hear what we would hear, come up with ideas,
39:00
Speaker 3: and he could find the chords and play the chords.
39:03
Speaker 3: And the more he would play the chords, the more
39:04
Speaker 3: he would become acclimated to one, three, fives, how to
39:07
Speaker 3: structure harmonies, where the sevens were. You know, he developed
39:11
Speaker 3: more of an instinct musically on his own. Self-taught is
39:15
Speaker 3: the best way to say that. But also going into
39:18
Speaker 3: the studio to do the parts, we both trusted our
39:21
Speaker 3: instincts in the creative process after we learned instinctively how
39:26
Speaker 3: we wanted to do sessions. And that's why I use
39:28
Speaker 3: the term head arrangement. So we'd create a song, we'd
39:32
Speaker 3: decide on the instruments that we would want to have
39:35
Speaker 3: on the song. We would then go into the studio.
39:37
Speaker 3: We trusted each other. without question. And so we knew
39:42
Speaker 3: what we were doing and we would each play our
39:44
Speaker 3: part in putting it together. And we did it that
39:47
Speaker 3: way without writing any charts out in that regard. Not
39:52
Speaker 3: at all.
39:53
Speaker 2: Now, you were doing most of the melodies on top
39:55
Speaker 2: of what he was playing.
39:56
Speaker 3: I was doing the melodies, lyric, and come and go
39:59
Speaker 3: with musical directions that we could go in. Sometimes I
40:03
Speaker 3: would tell him, look, let's take this chord down or up.
40:06
Speaker 3: Let's spray it the chord. We're going to put a
40:08
Speaker 3: background here. We're going to have an accent here. Those
40:10
Speaker 3: are the kinds of things that are part of what
40:12
Speaker 3: we call head arrangements. And we were doing that throughout
40:14
Speaker 3: the whole process, not only with the writing of the songs,
40:18
Speaker 3: but with the musicians as we would work with them
40:20
Speaker 3: in the recording sessions. And that was part of the
40:23
Speaker 3: magic of Stax Records, because that happened with everyone.
40:26
Speaker 2: And you wrote out the lyrics, I assume, did you?
40:29
Speaker 3: I definitely created words for most of the songs that
40:31
Speaker 3: we would write.
40:32
Speaker 2: But would you actually write them out for the artists
40:34
Speaker 2: then and then take them in?
40:35
Speaker 3: I would have to do that to teach them the song, yes.
40:39
Speaker 3: And I would then direct the artists on the microphone
40:41
Speaker 3: to sing the song. Because as we would do the session,
40:44
Speaker 3: they would come in for the session, then had the
40:46
Speaker 3: opportunity to learn the songs. I would have to teach
40:48
Speaker 3: them the song before we'd bring the musicians in. Once
40:52
Speaker 3: they would do that, now they're familiar with it. I
40:54
Speaker 3: want the naturalness of their emotions to be pure with that,
40:57
Speaker 3: and I'd be sure that I would get them into
40:59
Speaker 3: the character. Now they're ready to record the song, I
41:01
Speaker 3: would go to the microphone back when they're ready to record,
41:04
Speaker 3: and I would stand on the other side of the
41:06
Speaker 3: microphone and direct them. I did that with Sam and Dave.
41:09
Speaker 3: I did that with everyone we worked with. After we
41:12
Speaker 3: work up the arrangements inside of the room, that would
41:15
Speaker 3: be the role I would do.
41:16
Speaker 2: Did it always work when you got in the room
41:17
Speaker 2: with the artists, or sometimes did you have to go
41:19
Speaker 2: back and say, this isn't working, we've got to redo it?
41:23
Speaker 3: That very seldom ever happened with us. There was only
41:26
Speaker 3: one song I can recall that we had difficulty in
41:29
Speaker 3: really making work for us in a real creative way,
41:33
Speaker 3: and that's a song called It's a Wonder You Don't
41:35
Speaker 3: Turn to Sugar. And that was a song that we
41:38
Speaker 3: ended up on one of the albums on Sam & Dave,
41:41
Speaker 3: but it was not our best work on a session
41:44
Speaker 3: on Sam & Dave. That ended up later being a
41:47
Speaker 3: part of an album that we would have wanted to
41:50
Speaker 3: have recorded later. Again, but we never got the opportunity to.
41:54
Speaker 3: They left and went back to New York with Atlantic
41:57
Speaker 3: Records when their relationship dissolved with Atlantic Records and Stax.
42:02
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from David Porter after
42:03
Speaker 1: the break.
42:08
Speaker 2: Now, Atlantic had signed Sam and Dave, but didn't know
42:11
Speaker 2: what to do with them. So sort of gave them
42:14
Speaker 2: to you and said, what can we do? Do you
42:17
Speaker 2: remember meeting them for the first time?
42:19
Speaker 3: I remember meeting them. You know, I've heard fairy tales
42:23
Speaker 3: of Sam Moore talking about what he saw of us
42:25
Speaker 3: and all of that, which it wasn't true. But I
42:29
Speaker 3: remember meeting them, but I don't remember many of the
42:32
Speaker 3: steps toward that meeting. I remember us being told, these
42:36
Speaker 3: are some guys that we want to see you guys
42:39
Speaker 3: work with who want to try to do the work
42:42
Speaker 3: on them. And I was the one that took the
42:44
Speaker 3: lead on that. The very first record is a record
42:46
Speaker 3: called A Place Nobody Can Find. which was the first
42:50
Speaker 3: release on Sam & Dave. You'll see my name 100%
42:53
Speaker 3: right in everything on that song because I was the
42:56
Speaker 3: one that did the first record on them. There was
42:58
Speaker 3: not a lot of jumping up and down wanting to
43:00
Speaker 3: do them. After that first record, Isaac and I approached
43:04
Speaker 3: him about let's form a team and go and do it.
43:08
Speaker 3: So I asked him if we could do the production
43:10
Speaker 3: on them. He allowed us to do that, and the
43:12
Speaker 3: rest is history. There came You Don't Know Like I Know.
43:15
Speaker 3: And that was the beginning of a long string of
43:18
Speaker 3: major hit records.
43:19
Speaker 2: And then after that was Hold On?
43:21
Speaker 3: After You Don't Know Like I Know was Hold On,
43:24
Speaker 3: I'm Coming. Yes.
43:26
Speaker 2: That was a number one record, I think, wasn't it?
43:28
Speaker 3: That was a number one record.
43:30
Speaker 2: Even in pop?
43:31
Speaker 3: Well, it didn't make it. It was top ten in pop,
43:34
Speaker 3: but it was number one in R & B. Soul
43:36
Speaker 3: Man made number one in pop. That followed Hold On,
43:40
Speaker 3: I'm Coming.
43:41
Speaker 2: So was that a big moment in Stax?
43:43
Speaker 3: That was a huge, huge moment at Stax. That was
43:47
Speaker 3: the first number one record of Stax Records.
43:49
Speaker 2: Did that sort of change the atmosphere in Stax?
43:52
Speaker 3: Well, I would think so. We were so excited, and
43:56
Speaker 3: needless to say, Isaac and I, but it was something
43:58
Speaker 3: exciting for the entire company because we were now finding
44:03
Speaker 3: our footing in the music industry, and there were some
44:06
Speaker 3: other great records that were also being written and produced
44:08
Speaker 3: and recorded at that same time as well. Booker T
44:11
Speaker 3: and the MGs were now beginning to take off as artists.
44:15
Speaker 3: And Booker T and the MGs were recording some amazing
44:19
Speaker 3: instrumental records that were truly tremendous. And then we had
44:22
Speaker 3: artists like Albert King and Johnny Taylor that also were amazing.
44:27
Speaker 2: And then you started touring with the Stax artists, right?
44:33
Speaker 3: I did, but I was not passionate about touring. I
44:38
Speaker 3: wanted to be the artist myself. but I was having
44:42
Speaker 3: so much success as a writer, producer, and I was
44:45
Speaker 3: much more comfortable there than I was on stage. I
44:49
Speaker 3: love the stage, but I was having much more success
44:52
Speaker 3: writing and producing. I just couldn't walk away from that.
44:55
Speaker 3: When Isaac exploded as an artist, he had no choice
44:59
Speaker 3: because he became so amazingly huge. It just made all
45:04
Speaker 3: the sense in the world for him to take advantage
45:06
Speaker 3: of that. When he did, Atlantic had left Stax Records
45:10
Speaker 3: completely in the relationships, and we had to have product.
45:14
Speaker 3: And that was when Al Bell encouraged Isaac to record,
45:18
Speaker 3: said that we needed a great number of albums, and
45:21
Speaker 3: encouraged several of us to make records. And though I
45:24
Speaker 3: had no intentions of going on the road and touring
45:26
Speaker 3: at that or anything like that, I made a record myself,
45:30
Speaker 3: and it did well. It was certainly not out of
45:32
Speaker 3: the sales of Isaac's record, but 250,000 albums was not bad.
45:37
Speaker 3: It was very good for albums. But I just started
45:40
Speaker 3: recording these albums because they were successful, but I still
45:43
Speaker 3: was in the studio working day in and day out
45:46
Speaker 3: on writing and producing and building the publishing company and
45:50
Speaker 3: overseeing the labels in A & R.
45:52
Speaker 2: And that was more interesting to you than being up
45:54
Speaker 2: on stage?
45:55
Speaker 3: I did a couple of tours. One of the tours
45:57
Speaker 3: I did was I was in Philadelphia at the Spectrum
46:01
Speaker 3: on a Thursday night. Isaac was the headliner. I was
46:05
Speaker 3: the co-headliner. Miles Davis opened the show. If you get
46:11
Speaker 3: my book, The Soul Man, you'll see the placard that
46:14
Speaker 3: was promoting that show at the Spectrum in Philly that
46:19
Speaker 3: I did that. And Bobby Womack and I used to
46:21
Speaker 3: tour together. Bobby was the headliner and I was touring
46:25
Speaker 3: with him on some dates as well. But I just
46:27
Speaker 3: wasn't as passionate about that as one would think. So
46:31
Speaker 3: I was more comfortable being in the studio. I started
46:35
Speaker 3: out before all the success of recording records. When Booker
46:38
Speaker 3: T and the MGs first started having their success, I
46:40
Speaker 3: was the vocalist for Booker T and the MGs because
46:43
Speaker 3: we would perform on the weekends in colleges across America.
46:47
Speaker 3: And then come back on Monday, we'd be back in
46:49
Speaker 3: the studio making records. And that was fun.
46:52
Speaker 2: Did you go on one of the European tours?
46:55
Speaker 3: I was on the tour. Isaac and I both were
46:57
Speaker 3: on the European tour in 67. We were not performers
47:00
Speaker 3: on the tour, but we were on it. And we
47:03
Speaker 3: were treated as stars on it because we didn't realize
47:06
Speaker 3: the amount of fans that we had that were fans
47:09
Speaker 3: of our writing and producers. That's when we found out
47:12
Speaker 3: that people truly did love the songwriters and producers. With
47:17
Speaker 3: all of those adulations and excitement for what we were
47:20
Speaker 3: doing as writers and producers was really amazing to us.
47:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, Stax had a huge audience in Europe.
47:27
Speaker 3: Unbelievable. The acceptance in France and Amsterdam. in Germany, in
47:34
Speaker 3: all these countries. It was amazing. And we had no
47:39
Speaker 3: idea until we got there to find that that was
47:41
Speaker 3: the case. And don't even begin to mention London when
47:44
Speaker 3: all those big acts over there wanted to come and
47:47
Speaker 3: find us, where we were staying and what pub we
47:50
Speaker 3: were at outside of a gig night. It was amazing, amazing.
47:55
Speaker 2: Did you end up meeting some musicians over there?
47:57
Speaker 3: There were several of them that we had an opportunity
48:00
Speaker 3: to meet. And I wouldn't begin to start calling out,
48:03
Speaker 3: because I can't remember everybody, but the Beatles were huge fans.
48:08
Speaker 3: The Animals, Eric Burden was a huge fan. Rod Stewart
48:13
Speaker 3: was a fan. I mean, a lot of those guys
48:16
Speaker 3: that were making those records were huge, huge fans of
48:18
Speaker 3: Stax Records.
48:20
Speaker 2: So tell me about the first time you met Otis Redding.
48:24
Speaker 3: Well, Otis Redding came to Stax as a driver, and
48:28
Speaker 3: I talk about this in the book because it's fascinating
48:32
Speaker 3: because No one knew about Otis Redding as a singer.
48:36
Speaker 3: He was a driver and a gopher for a guy
48:39
Speaker 3: by the name of Johnny Jenkins that Jim Stewart had
48:42
Speaker 3: given an opportunity to record at Stax. Well, Otis was
48:46
Speaker 3: the driver for this artist, came to Memphis, was on
48:50
Speaker 3: the floor laying in the corner while Johnny Jenkins was
48:53
Speaker 3: recording on the microphone. It just so happened that Johnny
48:56
Speaker 3: Jenkins was not a comfortable, confident artist with star potential.
49:02
Speaker 3: But No one knew that, and I never to this
49:05
Speaker 3: day understood how he got in with Jim, except I
49:09
Speaker 3: was told that someone talked Jim into giving him a shot.
49:13
Speaker 3: This guy that was driving him asked Al Jackson if
49:17
Speaker 3: someone would take a listen to him. They took a
49:19
Speaker 3: listen to him, and Otis sang his original song, These
49:24
Speaker 3: Arms Are Mine, and changed our world forever. He was
49:30
Speaker 3: simply amazing. That's how I met him.
49:33
Speaker 2: So you were in the room when he sang that
49:36
Speaker 2: for the first time?
49:37
Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
49:38
Speaker 2: Who else was there? Do you remember?
49:39
Speaker 3: Booker T. Jones was there. Not when he did the audition.
49:43
Speaker 3: Steve heard him, along with Al Jackson and Jim Stewart.
49:48
Speaker 3: I was in the room, but there was no session
49:50
Speaker 3: going on. Jim quickly said, let's get some players together
49:53
Speaker 3: and put this down. And that's how these songs of
49:57
Speaker 3: mine ended up being recorded. But from that point on,
50:02
Speaker 3: Otis became friends with everybody, to be honest with you.
50:05
Speaker 3: But Otis and I developed a tremendous relationship because I
50:10
Speaker 3: was marveling at the fact that Otis would do head
50:12
Speaker 3: arrangements with the band. Head arrangements mean he would go
50:15
Speaker 3: around the room and give them parts to play. And
50:18
Speaker 3: he wouldn't even sing the song. He would just give
50:20
Speaker 3: them the parts to play. And when he'd given them
50:22
Speaker 3: the parts and they're playing the parts, then he would
50:24
Speaker 3: go on the microphone without any lyric sheet or anything
50:27
Speaker 3: like that and sing the song. So I found out
50:30
Speaker 3: later that he was making up the songs on the spot.
50:34
Speaker 3: He was that talented. So he was an amazing gifted talent.
50:39
Speaker 3: He left the service much too soon for people to
50:41
Speaker 3: find out the totality of his brilliance.
50:44
Speaker 2: Now, did you write for him?
50:46
Speaker 3: Isaac and I wrote two or three songs for him,
50:48
Speaker 3: Trick or Treat. We wrote two or three songs that
50:51
Speaker 3: we felt really good about him. I sang with him.
50:54
Speaker 3: I sang on a record, the Fair, Fair, Fair, Fair,
50:57
Speaker 3: Fair record. That's me singing harmony with him. But Otis
51:00
Speaker 3: was such a great writer, and he did a favor
51:02
Speaker 3: for us by allowing us to write a couple of songs.
51:07
Speaker 3: But he was such an amazing writer himself. He didn't
51:10
Speaker 3: need songs from us.
51:12
Speaker 2: And then you did go on to, you mentioned you
51:14
Speaker 2: did some of your own albums. You did Victim of
51:17
Speaker 2: the Joke, Gritty, Groovy.
51:20
Speaker 3: Gritty, Groovy, and Gettin' It.
51:21
Speaker 2: Gettin' It. I mean, those are great albums, but it
51:24
Speaker 2: wasn't your first love was not performing.
51:26
Speaker 3: No, I had fun with the records. I did a
51:28
Speaker 3: version of Hang On Sloopy on Into a Real Thing
51:33
Speaker 3: that I used to love to sing that song because
51:35
Speaker 3: I sung it differently in high school. And by the
51:38
Speaker 3: time I'm now at Stax Records and have the opportunity
51:40
Speaker 3: to call the shots on how I want to record
51:43
Speaker 3: these records, I would think of creative ways to do
51:46
Speaker 3: the songs. I did the same thing with The Masquerade
51:48
Speaker 3: Is Over. So that was fun for me. And so
51:53
Speaker 3: I was also pleasantly surprised that they were selling, the
51:56
Speaker 3: albums were selling. Isaac was selling Double and Triple Platinum.
52:01
Speaker 3: I wasn't in that league. I'm selling 150, 200,000 albums,
52:06
Speaker 3: and that's worth your recording, but it wasn't worth me
52:10
Speaker 3: putting everything I've got and focusing on just making records.
52:15
Speaker 3: But it was enough to make me feel real good
52:18
Speaker 3: that people were, to some degree, accepting what I was doing.
52:22
Speaker 3: And I had fun with it.
52:24
Speaker 2: You write in a really interesting way about the decline
52:28
Speaker 2: of Stax when it eventually went bankrupt and it was sold.
52:32
Speaker 2: There's this myth around Stax Records that it was torn
52:36
Speaker 2: apart by racial division.
52:37
Speaker 1: Huh.
52:38
Speaker 3: That's not true.
52:39
Speaker 2: That there were guns being pulled on people, that Al
52:42
Speaker 2: Bell was a crook. You don't really see it.
52:45
Speaker 3: That way at all. Everything you just mentioned was the
52:49
Speaker 3: furthest thing from the truth. There were many people, because
52:53
Speaker 3: of the notoriety and the popularity of Stax, want to
52:56
Speaker 3: create the aura that they were intricately connected to Stax Records.
53:01
Speaker 3: That was the furthest thing from the truth. I could
53:04
Speaker 3: call names, but I won't call them out now, of
53:07
Speaker 3: people that were doing that. And they had all of
53:10
Speaker 3: these fantasies. The bond that we had in that studio,
53:15
Speaker 3: the whites were Steve Cropper, Doug Dunn, Wayne Jackson. The
53:19
Speaker 3: blacks were Al Jackson Jr., Booker T. Jones, Isaac Hayes,
53:23
Speaker 3: David Porter, Andrew Love, Wayne Jackson. And so that was it.
53:29
Speaker 3: The bond that we had was unbelievable. We would go
53:33
Speaker 3: and play gigs on the weekend. This is before we
53:36
Speaker 3: exploded as recording albums ourselves, Isaac or I. And I'm
53:41
Speaker 3: on the road with Booger T, Booger T and the MGs,
53:44
Speaker 3: Al Jackson Jr., Doug Dunn, Steve Cropper, and we're playing
53:50
Speaker 3: the college circuit. If that was racial, whatever, how would
53:55
Speaker 3: it look for Steve Cropper and Doug Dunn to be
53:57
Speaker 3: traveling all around the country in this station wagons, because
54:01
Speaker 3: we didn't have any limos at that time, that we
54:04
Speaker 3: would go on the road for these performances in. We
54:07
Speaker 3: went through all of that together. And we did it
54:09
Speaker 3: committed and devoted to each other. And when we would
54:12
Speaker 3: come up on a hotel that wouldn't accept us into
54:16
Speaker 3: the hotel, Steve and our duck would not stay in
54:19
Speaker 3: the hotel. They would leave. And so that's the commitment
54:23
Speaker 3: and the bond that we had. And the music that
54:25
Speaker 3: we made, how could you make music as beautiful and
54:28
Speaker 3: connected as that if there was anything remotely close to
54:31
Speaker 3: the vision inside the company? The people who were, like
54:35
Speaker 3: I say, making those fairy tales or people that wanted
54:38
Speaker 3: people to believe that they were connected in some way
54:40
Speaker 3: with Stax, that was the farthest thing from the truth.
54:44
Speaker 3: The beauty of Stax Records lives in through the spirit
54:47
Speaker 3: that you feel from the music. And you feel that
54:50
Speaker 3: spirit from the music because the authenticity of the passion
54:54
Speaker 3: and commitment and the locked in togetherness of the people
54:58
Speaker 3: was felt throughout the energy of that music. Every time
55:03
Speaker 3: a record was played, every time a song was recorded,
55:07
Speaker 3: every time a record was released, it was never released
55:11
Speaker 3: unless it had all those qualities of commitment, passion and togetherness.
55:16
Speaker 3: And that's why those records were successful.
55:19
Speaker 2: You also write about the studios themselves because people talk
55:23
Speaker 2: about the stacked sound. Part of it is a slightly
55:27
Speaker 2: delayed beat on the drums. And you say it's because
55:31
Speaker 2: you had a sloped floor in the room. It was
55:32
Speaker 2: a former theater. Tell me how that affected the sound.
55:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know, years ago when there were, before
55:40
Speaker 3: all the world of technology as it is today, there
55:43
Speaker 3: were movie theaters where you'd walk inside of the rooms
55:46
Speaker 3: there would be a restroom right at the door so
55:49
Speaker 3: that when you walk to the back of that room,
55:51
Speaker 3: if you're inside of the theater, you open the restroom,
55:54
Speaker 3: the light would not go down and mess up the
55:57
Speaker 3: audience with a light coming on while they're trying to
55:59
Speaker 3: see the movie screen that's going up top as they
56:02
Speaker 3: look up. Well, you also, when you walk in that door,
56:05
Speaker 3: you walk down the floor and the seats would go up.
56:08
Speaker 3: Now you're sitting where everyone is able to see the
56:10
Speaker 3: screen that's up higher. Well, when Jim Stewart got that building,
56:15
Speaker 3: He didn't change the floor. And what happened was the
56:19
Speaker 3: instruments that were put in there to play, Al Jackson Jr.,
56:23
Speaker 3: rather than get at the top of the room as
56:25
Speaker 3: you walk in the door, got all the way at
56:28
Speaker 3: the bottom of the floor, near where the screen would
56:31
Speaker 3: go up to. And that's where he set his drums up.
56:35
Speaker 3: The piano was set up about four feet beyond him
56:38
Speaker 3: going back up the floor. Steve Cropper was another two
56:42
Speaker 3: or three feet above where the piano was. with the guitar.
56:46
Speaker 3: Doug Don was another two or three feet beyond Steve
56:49
Speaker 3: with the bass. The horns were a little bit further
56:52
Speaker 3: than that around a baffle in the center of the room.
56:56
Speaker 3: And there was the organ and the piano in the
56:59
Speaker 3: area toward the wall. Al Jackson had to hear the
57:05
Speaker 3: music being played through the amps. They were not directs
57:08
Speaker 3: at that time where you go directly into the wall,
57:10
Speaker 3: right into the recording mechanisms. It was Through amps. And
57:15
Speaker 3: so there was a natural delay that Al had to
57:20
Speaker 3: adapt to and create what we call a groove or
57:24
Speaker 3: a pocket for the music to feel good. It was
57:27
Speaker 3: not something that had been thought out that we're going
57:28
Speaker 3: to make it this way and we want the flow
57:30
Speaker 3: to be slow. It spoke to the brilliance of Al
57:34
Speaker 3: Jackson Jr., the drummer, being able to adapt to a
57:38
Speaker 3: pocket or a set pattern that merit the credibility of
57:42
Speaker 3: of what everything he was hearing and everybody could feed
57:45
Speaker 3: off of that to lock into where everything was. And
57:49
Speaker 3: that was done in the most amazing way, but it
57:52
Speaker 3: was an accident. It was not something that had been
57:55
Speaker 3: thought out to any credible way. Because here I am
57:57
Speaker 3: at the back of the room with Sam and Dave
58:01
Speaker 3: with our little headset song, singing the songs and laying
58:06
Speaker 3: the vocals and things back to this pocket.
58:09
Speaker 2: Now, were you singing... While the band was playing or
58:13
Speaker 2: did you record the singing later?
58:15
Speaker 3: No, no. You sang while the band was playing. The
58:18
Speaker 3: horns are playing at that same time.
58:20
Speaker 2: Wow.
58:21
Speaker 3: The amazing thing about those records during those times were
58:25
Speaker 3: that when you made the record, you had to do everything.
58:30
Speaker 3: You said one, two, three, four. I mean, the next
58:34
Speaker 3: time the one came, everything had to be perfect on
58:38
Speaker 3: the beat. And it had to be as it needed
58:41
Speaker 3: to be to be a record. So it was not
58:44
Speaker 3: like it is in today's world where you can make
58:46
Speaker 3: mistakes and you can punch in and correct that or
58:49
Speaker 3: correct this. No, the energy, the performance, the pocket, everything
58:54
Speaker 3: had to be with each cut. And that speaks to
58:58
Speaker 3: the emotional commitment of the creative processes with every studio
59:03
Speaker 3: during those times, from Motown to Chess to all, but
59:06
Speaker 3: certainly it stacked with that sloped floor That speaks to
59:09
Speaker 3: what we were doing.
59:10
Speaker 2: So how many takes would you have done of a
59:12
Speaker 2: song like Soul Man, for example?
59:15
Speaker 3: Maybe 12, 13, 14 takes. Mm-hmm.
59:19
Speaker 2: Would you do them all in one day?
59:21
Speaker 3: Oh, definitely. We'd cut four songs in one day. I
59:24
Speaker 3: would be able to teach Sam and Dave all four
59:28
Speaker 3: songs in one day. They were that in tune to
59:30
Speaker 3: what we were doing, and we were that in tune
59:33
Speaker 3: to what we needed to do for them.
59:36
Speaker 2: So a lot of people now hear that stack sound,
59:40
Speaker 2: but they probably don't know they're hearing it. They hear
59:42
Speaker 2: it on Dream Lover by Mariah Carey. There's so many
59:46
Speaker 2: samples of staff songs.
59:47
Speaker 3: Wu-Tang Clan, Will Smith, LL Cool J.
59:53
Speaker 2: Biggie, or all those. So a lot of those, when
59:57
Speaker 2: you go back to those records, you hear Blind Alley
59:59
Speaker 2: by The Emotions. You're like, well, that's where that organ
1:00:04
Speaker 2: part comes from.
1:00:05
Speaker 3: Well, that's David Porter. that wrote that song 100% and
1:00:09
Speaker 3: produced that record in 1973. And Blind Alley, it happens
1:00:14
Speaker 3: to be one of the most sample pieces of work
1:00:17
Speaker 3: that ever came out of Stax Records.
1:00:19
Speaker 1: Really?
1:00:20
Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
1:00:20
Speaker 2: Do you make sure you get paid for those?
1:00:22
Speaker 3: I'd have to be kind of crazy if I didn't
1:00:24
Speaker 3: make sure. I may be a lot of things, but
1:00:26
Speaker 3: I'm not crazy. No, it's been real good for me.
1:00:31
Speaker 2: So after all this, you still live in Memphis.
1:00:34
Speaker 3: I still live in Memphis. I I certainly want to
1:00:36
Speaker 3: give something back to a community that has given so
1:00:39
Speaker 3: much to me.
1:00:41
Speaker 2: And so what are you doing now?
1:00:43
Speaker 3: I have a nonprofit. The nonprofit is called The Consortium.
1:00:48
Speaker 3: That's T-H-E is important part of the name of the organization.
1:00:52
Speaker 3: The Consortium MMT. So you can go to the consortiummmt.org
1:00:59
Speaker 3: and you'll be surprised to see that that is a
1:01:02
Speaker 3: program that is free to young people who have aspirations.
1:01:06
Speaker 3: to be in the music business. It gives you the
1:01:08
Speaker 3: principles and processes of some of the greatest artists who
1:01:11
Speaker 3: ever lived. Philip Bailey talks about how to be a
1:01:15
Speaker 3: vocalist who takes care of their voice. Valerie Simpson talks
1:01:18
Speaker 3: about the writing structure of songs and how to make
1:01:22
Speaker 3: those magical. Stevie Wonder talks about how to come up
1:01:25
Speaker 3: with concepts of lyric and melody and that you can
1:01:29
Speaker 3: make the uniqueness and individuality of what you're doing have
1:01:32
Speaker 3: its own persona to it. Valerie Simpson, Eric Benet, Philip Bailey,
1:01:40
Speaker 3: Jimmy Jams. The list is so long. I have 130
1:01:44
Speaker 3: plus videos of some of the biggest names in our
1:01:46
Speaker 3: business talking about processes that are used to make great
1:01:51
Speaker 3: music from our day. And it's given freely to young people.
1:01:54
Speaker 3: And we stress that there are no new emotions. You
1:01:58
Speaker 3: have to find fresh ways to talk about common emotions.
1:02:00
Speaker 3: So you're finding... just a fresh way to talk about
1:02:03
Speaker 3: something that is the same thing. So you can benefit
1:02:06
Speaker 3: from hearing the expertise of some of these talents in
1:02:09
Speaker 3: this program. And so I wanted to do that and
1:02:12
Speaker 3: it's done free. In addition to that, I'm passionate about
1:02:17
Speaker 3: the soul man life of songwriter David Porter, because I
1:02:20
Speaker 3: want to create as many opportunities as I can to
1:02:23
Speaker 3: give people insights about the credibility and the magic of
1:02:27
Speaker 3: what was once Stax Records and still is Stax. stacks
1:02:31
Speaker 3: to the credibility of music, but also to be just
1:02:35
Speaker 3: documented for young folk in the future to realize that
1:02:39
Speaker 3: there were people like me who was passionate about a
1:02:42
Speaker 3: thing called music out of respect for what it had
1:02:44
Speaker 3: done so much for him.
1:02:47
Speaker 2: Well, the emotion right now is gratitude. Thank you so
1:02:49
Speaker 2: much for coming in. It's fascinating and just some of
1:02:53
Speaker 2: the greatest records ever made. Thank you so much.
1:02:55
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I really have
1:02:57
Speaker 3: enjoyed the time with you.
1:03:01
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with
1:03:04
Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer
1:03:07
Speaker 1: is Ben Talladay. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
1:03:11
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Speaker 1: podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.