Latest / Sid & Friends In The Morning / Joe Tacopina | Defense Attorney Covers Legal Headlines of the Day

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Joe Tacopina | Defense Attorney Covers Legal Headlines of the Day · Sid & Friends In The Morning

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  Speaker 1: Joe Takapina, best defense attorney anywhere in the world today,
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  Speaker 1: my friend of almost forty nine years, just a terrific,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: terrific guy. Joseph, Welcome back to sitting Brends.
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  Speaker 2: How are you.
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing very very well. I mean, I guess I'm
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: doing okay. I don't know. I've got a lot of value.
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  Speaker 1: I'm upset about a lot of things.
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  Speaker 2: I know this says about a lot of things. But
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  Speaker 2: that makes you doing well. I mean, that's why you
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  Speaker 2: are who you are, right, This is holl what it is.
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  Speaker 2: If there's no controversy, you weren't angry that somebody Hassan
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  Speaker 2: Piker Robert de Niro would be boring?
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  Speaker 1: Right, So every day I've actually threatened a couple of
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  Speaker 1: people with physical violence. Even what's this guy's name. He's
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  Speaker 1: another one of these psychos. He's in the mom Donnie category.
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  Speaker 1: And I went on Twitter and I said, you you
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  Speaker 1: better hope you don't bump into me in the street
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  Speaker 1: somewhere to New York City. God wrong, Oh, his name
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  Speaker 1: is just you know, his name is Hassan Meddi dead.
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  Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with a little old who throwed back.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, everyone this society turns so soft. You used
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  Speaker 2: to be able to get into a good fist fight
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  Speaker 2: every now and then, and sometimes it's just settle things.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything wrong with except now everyone
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  Speaker 2: has a camera, everyone has a you know, is videotaping anything,
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  Speaker 2: So you really, you know, you have to make sure
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  Speaker 2: that the other person goes first.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, true, you're right about that. So last week I
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  Speaker 1: had Donna with Tunau one I know you know she is.
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  Speaker 1: She's sure lawyer Fox News. So we were discoursing this
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  Speaker 1: Lindsay Clancy case and I'm into it. I'm not gonna lie.
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  Speaker 1: I remember the Susan Smith story years and years ago.
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  Speaker 1: She also killed her children. And here's what I've come
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  Speaker 1: away with. And a lot of people on social media
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  Speaker 1: agreed with me. The ones that didn't were pretty vicious.
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  Speaker 1: Listen to me. I'm a father, I'm a great father.
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  Speaker 1: I love my two children. Avan Gabriel, you you're a
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  Speaker 1: great father. Joseph, you're a great grandfather. Okay, people like
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  Speaker 1: you and I could never even fathom, can never even
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  Speaker 1: even fathom hurting one of our children, let alone killing them,
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  Speaker 1: so which, you know, horrible fashion. But this is my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: I don't think Lindsey Clancy is evil. I don't. I
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  Speaker 1: think the combination of postpartum depression and the meds, which
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  Speaker 1: were the wrong meds, made her crazy and she did
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  Speaker 1: something that is horrendous. What she did was evil one percent.
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  Speaker 1: But I don't think putting her in a maximum security
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  Speaker 1: prison is where she belongs. She belongs in a crazy house.
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  Speaker 1: Most other people on my social media agree. The ones
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  Speaker 1: that didn't were vicious. What do you think?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a good question, said, I mean, I
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  Speaker 2: think that this is really not an easy case. I mean, look,
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  Speaker 2: you think what you just said, right, a mother chills
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  Speaker 2: her children die, she should die, I mean died.
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  Speaker 1: That was my initial feeling, like die, just die, right.
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  Speaker 2: Just die? Because you and I we can never understand it. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: but I would not call this an easy prosecution conviction.
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  Speaker 2: And before hearing the psychiatric evidence, the facts right, sending
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  Speaker 2: Patrick away, killing the three children sequentially, the apparent planning
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  Speaker 2: sound absolutely devastating for any defense, any defense, But that
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  Speaker 2: doctor Resident gave Reddington something extremely important, which was really
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  Speaker 2: a coherent psychiatric explanation connecting the command hallucination, the distorted
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  Speaker 2: beliefs concerning the children and suicidally and these killings themselves, right,
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  Speaker 2: So you know, now the prosecution has really mac directly
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  Speaker 2: attacking the theory and RAPPORTE has two additional bubble witnesses
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  Speaker 2: that will wait for the evidence before making a firm verdic.
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  Speaker 2: So at this moment, I'd say I characterize it as
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  Speaker 2: gentle with the dangerous case for the prosecution rather than
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  Speaker 2: a foregone conclusion of a murder commission. Because if look,
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  Speaker 2: if I'm the prosecutor, my concern isn't whether the jury
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  Speaker 2: believes Lindsay Clancy was mentally ill. Everyone knows she was
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  Speaker 2: profoundly ill. Mental illness dies, and for your listeners to
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  Speaker 2: understand this does not equal in sanity defense. Not that alone.
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  Speaker 2: My concern is the prosecutors whether, after hearing all the
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  Speaker 2: psychiatchic evidence, I can get twelve jurors to say beyond
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  Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt that she nevertheless possessed that mental capacity
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  Speaker 2: required for criminal responsibility. That's the battlefield. And to hear
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  Speaker 2: someone like you, who is this pro prosecution as anyone yep,
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  Speaker 2: say what you just said, yeah, shows me that that
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  Speaker 2: that's going to be their battle where I'm that's going
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  Speaker 2: to be the problem again.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm pro death penalty and I'm not sure this.
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  Speaker 2: Lady is guilty, right, And that's why these cases so difficult, said,
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  Speaker 2: I'm trying a lot of them. You cannot confuse three
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  Speaker 2: different concepts intent, mental illness, and criminal responsibility. So she
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  Speaker 2: could have had and could have and I think clearly
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  Speaker 2: did intended the physical acts. She could have been profoundly
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  Speaker 2: mentally ill, and she still not have been criminally responsible
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  Speaker 2: on the Massachusetts law. And that's precisely what this story
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  Speaker 2: has to untangle. And it's an easy case.
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  Speaker 1: Not easy now. In fact, the murder trial is about
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  Speaker 1: to resume in Plymouth's, Massachusetts, has Joseph jose pointed out,
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  Speaker 1: and I think the defense is going to look to
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  Speaker 1: rest its case sometime this week, and then I guess
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  Speaker 1: that's it. It goes to the jury, right.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, no, the prosecution then will put on a
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  Speaker 2: rebuttal case. I believe they've indicate that in a rebubbal
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  Speaker 2: case simply means the prosecution goes first, presents their evidence,
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  Speaker 2: the defense of their cross examinations, whatever. Then the defense
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  Speaker 2: presents evidence if they have any no no obligation of course,
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  Speaker 2: you know it is defending. You have no obligation to
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  Speaker 2: do anything. But if they have evidence, they present it.
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  Speaker 2: And then if after the defense case is over, the
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  Speaker 2: prosecution wants to rebut some of the defense witnesses or evidence,
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  Speaker 2: they get to put on a rebuttal case. And I
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  Speaker 2: believe that's what's going to happen here. I think they
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  Speaker 2: have to.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I've seen so many times over the years,
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  Speaker 1: these cases where people they voices, right, I mean, you
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  Speaker 1: go back to Summer Sam right, nineteen seventy seven. Son
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  Speaker 1: is Sam and I guess it's dog, don't I don't know? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Did so. Now there's another case, this one Joseph. I
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  Speaker 1: literally started to cry this morning when I saw the
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  Speaker 1: picture of the murderer. Royce Moser. Handsome could be my son,
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  Speaker 1: could be one of your boys, handsome of the tuxedo.
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  Speaker 1: This beautiful young girlfriend. What a cute kid, Caroline Hines.
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  Speaker 1: So this kid, this Heinz college soccer star and they're
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  Speaker 1: in California, Pennsylvania, and the boyfriend calls her and says,
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  Speaker 1: come over, I want to give you something. So she
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  Speaker 1: comes over. The boyfriend runs in the house and she
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  Speaker 1: thought he was going in to get her whatever gift
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  Speaker 1: he was going to give her. He ran inside the
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  Speaker 1: house and he got a knife, and he came back
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  Speaker 1: to the car. He plunged the knife into her chest.
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  Speaker 1: This a horrible, cute young girl killed her. And then
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  Speaker 1: the mother of this boy actually helped him clean the
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  Speaker 1: car dispose of the body. Now, when you talk about
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  Speaker 1: looking at a couple of people and trying to figure
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  Speaker 1: out how this could have ever happened, I promise you
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  Speaker 1: look at the pictures of Royce Moser and Caroline Heinz.
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  Speaker 1: You couldn't predict that in a million years. But he said,
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  Speaker 1: this kid, demons told them to do it, So clearly
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  Speaker 1: he's looking for the insanity defense. What a horrible story.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know again there's contradicting statements that demons
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  Speaker 2: told me to do it. And the other statement he
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  Speaker 2: made was she said something to make him angry. He
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  Speaker 2: said that different than demons. Yes, he said, so look,
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  Speaker 2: look and the demons told me to do it. Statements right,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, if look, there's certain things right, If the
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  Speaker 2: law is on your side, you pound the law. If
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  Speaker 2: the facts are on your side, you pound the facts.
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  Speaker 2: If neither are on your side, you pound the table
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  Speaker 2: and they're pounding at the table right now. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: right right, that's really what we look at it because
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  Speaker 2: the demons, the demons told me to do it. How convenient, right,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you're dead to rights, you have no defense whatsoever, factually,
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  Speaker 2: so somebody had to tell you to do it to
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  Speaker 2: get you off the hook. Right. But let me just
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  Speaker 2: say this that that in and of itself, hearing voices
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  Speaker 2: that is not equal insanity defense. Pennsylvania. This is where
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  Speaker 2: this case is, like you just said, follows what's a
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  Speaker 2: relatively restrictive version of the MacNaughton rule, the McNaughton rules,
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  Speaker 2: the rule that we all learned in law school about
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  Speaker 2: the sanity defenses. Right. The central question isn't simply whether
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  Speaker 2: he suffered from mental illness. Okay, here we go again.
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  Speaker 2: It's essentially whether because of the mental illness, the mental disease,
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  Speaker 2: or the mental defect, he lacked the capacity to understand
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  Speaker 2: the nature and quality of what he was doing or
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  Speaker 2: that it was wrong. Well here, you know he did,
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  Speaker 2: because there was a massive cover up attempt afterwards, right,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, the prosecutor was going to say, wait, he
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  Speaker 2: didn't know what he was doing, yet he drove the
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  Speaker 2: vehicle away, asked mommy for help participating in efforts to
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  Speaker 2: clean up the blood evidence. You gloves, move the jeep,
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  Speaker 2: it's the location disposed of and conceal the concealed the
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  Speaker 2: loss the knife forever. I mean, this is a master
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  Speaker 2: plan to cover up your actions. So those are actions
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  Speaker 2: of someone who understood perfectly well yep, what he did. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: he knew what he did was wrong. Yeah, I agree,
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  Speaker 2: that's just a guilt argument. So this case is not
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  Speaker 2: like the case where we just talked about with Linda
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  Speaker 2: Knancy's mother who had some real psychosis going on. And
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  Speaker 2: again that's still a tough one for the jury. This
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  Speaker 2: one's a little less tough for me. I mean, how
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  Speaker 2: convenians say, oh, a demon made me do it. But yet,
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  Speaker 2: of course he also said I became angry because she
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  Speaker 2: said something.
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  Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, that's Jeff, And now you're right. This young
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  Speaker 1: girl was set to start her collegiate career at Penn
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  Speaker 1: West University. She committed to play Division two soccer. Her
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  Speaker 1: first game for the team was supposed to be this
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  Speaker 1: Friday night, but she is gone terrible. The man Jony
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  Speaker 1: story is kind of weird too. This is why you're
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  Speaker 1: so great tact because you know everything, because there's like
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  Speaker 1: a state case and and the case here in the city,
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  Speaker 1: and people the federal case, I'm sorry, the federal case
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  Speaker 1: and the state case, and people get confused to actually
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  Speaker 1: what's going on and where he's pleading and what it
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  Speaker 1: means for the other case. For folks that don't bodel
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  Speaker 1: this as closely as you do, Luigi MANGIONI, where are
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  Speaker 1: we with that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean it's a changed the big hero,
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  Speaker 2: the big you know coward. I think it says the
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  Speaker 2: biggest coward of all time, right, is now admitted that
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  Speaker 2: he did something that he knew was wrong by killing
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  Speaker 2: cowardly from behind?
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  Speaker 1: By that and did he do that? Did he do
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  Speaker 1: that just to make sure he never got the death penalty?
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  Speaker 1: Why did he do that?
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  Speaker 2: Well? Look, you know, I don't I don't necessarily think
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  Speaker 2: the death tuney was really what the concern was. I
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  Speaker 2: think the concern was life in prison or a murder
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  Speaker 2: commission in state court? Were you going to spend time
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  Speaker 2: in state prison? I think that's really what his intent was, right,
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  Speaker 2: So the death money is gone, right, So in federal court,
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  Speaker 2: to death is gone. The judge had previously dismissed the
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  Speaker 2: federal murder of firearms counts that could have supported capital punishment,
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  Speaker 2: so that was gone by taking a plea in federal court.
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  Speaker 2: That's certainly is one thing that he salvaged because if
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  Speaker 2: he does get the state murder charges dismissed, that's the
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  Speaker 2: end of that story. Okay, So so it's the end. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: he saved his quote unquote life. If he gets thirty years,
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  Speaker 2: this this piece of garbage will still come out of
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  Speaker 2: jail in you know, in his late fifties. It's not
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  Speaker 2: like he's going to be uh, you know, dying in
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  Speaker 2: prison unless someone you know, some right, some rough justice
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  Speaker 2: like right, which I would by the way, treatment, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this guy is really but you know now
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  Speaker 2: it's it's Deschrilalotte was supposed to be September eight has
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  Speaker 2: been postponed in definitely, and the defense is going to
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  Speaker 2: make a motion to dismiss based on double jeopardy. We
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  Speaker 2: just got that last week, that the dual sovereignty argument
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  Speaker 2: about them relying on New York's very very protective statutory
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  Speaker 2: double jeopardy for it's much more than the federal rules.
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  Speaker 2: So we have to see now what's going to happen.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's I don't think for a second this
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  Speaker 2: case of being dismissed in total. Judge Caro, who I
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  Speaker 2: know very well, is not a friend of the defense
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: for the most part. I tried four case upon him,
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  Speaker 2: and it's not always a fun thing to do there.
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  Speaker 2: I think what he is going to do is going
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  Speaker 2: to consider dismissing the murder charges and keeping the other
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the weapons charges and whatever else. If he does that,
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  Speaker 2: it's still a heavy hit. But here you said something
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  Speaker 2: last week said that was right. It doesn't matter because
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  Speaker 2: he's going to get basically the equivalent of a life
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  Speaker 2: sentence in federal court. Okay, I believe so, because the
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  Speaker 2: guylines permit that based on the conduct right, the levant conduct.
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  Speaker 2: So I think he's going to get whacked in federal
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: court the same way he get whacked in state court.
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  Speaker 2: I think this is a more matter of principle. Does
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: he does he get convicted of murder? Now he's already
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: said he murdered this guy, and he said he knew
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  Speaker 2: it was wrong. So therefore all the arguments about all
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I hate the health industry and my grandma didn't get
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: good treatment and my back really hurts me so bad.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, well that's gone because he said I
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  Speaker 2: knew what I did was wrong. Yeah, I mean that.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And then when you see those idiots supporting this guy, please,
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  Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, it is the most repulsively unintelligent
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  Speaker 2: thing I've honestly seen in the longest time, because a
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: lot of the people supporting him are ivy league little
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: just like him, of course, who have everything, who have
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: everything handed to them. Yeah, not like you or I said,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: have everything hand to them. And these people are And
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that's like the.
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  Speaker 1: People that voted for Ma'm donnie too, mind you, they
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: weren't the oppressed and the poor, and these rather rich Williamsburg.
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  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Joe, and I do this. And
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  Speaker 1: I know I sound old because I yelled at my
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: dad when he did this. Okay, I'm at the age.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I'll be sixty. If God is good to me in April,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I'll be sixty years old. I am so disappointed in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: people now. When I watch people like Man you only
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: become heroes. When I watch people like Talker Carlson demand
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: an audience that you hatred the Israel, hatred just the
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the people today, These these cults that take over our society,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and there are cults. Loving Israel is not a cult.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Loving pleasant and Trump is not a cult. When you
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: start boweling people like Tucker Carlson and putting Mangione on
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  Speaker 1: some type of pedestal like he's a hero. I am
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  Speaker 1: so disappointed in humanity today, Joseph, I don't know what
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: to say.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you just said it, right, I mean, it's
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: so true. I really have come to the point now
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: where I read whatever news I need to read, to
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: be in the loops, so to speak. But I am
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: done like reading every single thing, the left, the right, everything.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: It's just there's so much vileness out there, and there's
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: so much hatred out there. And you're right, this this
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: this wolt. I don't even know what democrats socialist is
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: that they're inconsistent terms, right, I mean completely socialist is
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: and socialist, Democrats and democrat. Now it's become one thing
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and socialism. If someone should just give me one example
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in the universe and the history of the world where
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: socialism has ever worked, I'd like to hear it.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: There is none, never work. There is none, right, And
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: in some of these and some of these people, most
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of the in fact, they're not even socialists if they've
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: graduated to communism. This guy, I'm Donnie's a communist, which
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is even worse. And they don't work either. So now
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: there is no there is no you know, level of success.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: And this is becoming our country now. Now hopefully we
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: were able to you know, beat it come November in
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the mid terms and keep a republic in an office.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Not they're great either, but something better than the Democrats
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: come on or you know these twenty twenty eight. But man,
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  Speaker 1: I just I look around. I'm like, what the hell happened.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Joey, what happened?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: What happened is go kill it?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Back to the Manjoni case for a second, right, What
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: is so despicably troubling, okay, is that this guy's now
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: accepted what he did. Right, he said he did it,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: No kidding, really be surprised where I would to hear
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: for doing that. But but you can now, except what
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a person would have ranged, either be educated or not
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: or just some idiot outside the courthouse, that an individual
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: may execute another person because that individual believes that person
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: represents an unjunct, unjust institution. Well, thank god this country
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: is gone because everyone in this country believes someone represents
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: an unjust institution, whether it's the left or the right.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Big Pharma, it's not big pharma. How about the you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: the the gasantry, the oil try tesla, you go on
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: and on on. We should then allow killings of people who.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Who are disappointed.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Or feel that, you know, somebody is wrong in society,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and they don't have to be right about it because
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: there's no it's summarily executed. And it's like people can
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: actually support that in this day and age. Let's go.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Someone can say, I'm I'm gonna shoot Mandami. Yeah, okay,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot the Mayra because I think what he's
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: doing is destroying the ark City. I love no city.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So I get to do it.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Could happen.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I get through it because you know it's the right
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: thing to do, not because there's a law allowing me
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Right now. It's not bad to do that and know
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: it's not boud. It's terrible. Listen. They interviewed some of
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: these idiots outside the courtroom for Mangioni and they called
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Brian Thompson a terrorist, and they said, wait a second,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: who's against killing the terrorists? Which baby, I'm not you know,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I'm all for killing the terrorists they described. Yeah, this
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: innocent father of two who works in the insurance business
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: as a terrorist. Joe Tacopina amazing as always. Will do
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: it again on Friday.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Bro.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I love it so much. I was great, Thank you,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: thank you. Excellent job, Billy, excellent Joe Tacopina right there,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: amazing defense attorney, friend of mine for forty nine years.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: How lucky am I?
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Sit In Friends in the Morning.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: You can hear sit in Friends in the Morning weekday mornings.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: It's six.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: If you like the podcast, share it with your friends
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: and listen anytime at WABC radio dot com and download
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: the WABC Radio app. Hit that subscribe button on all
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: major podcast platforms. Plus, follow WABC on social on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: and X see you next time for a new episode,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: so you never have to wonder
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: What the heck is going on here.