Latest / Books4Guys / Why Vulnerability Makes You a Stronger Leader | Ed Cohen

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Why Vulnerability Makes You a Stronger Leader | Ed Cohen · Books4Guys

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Where you started your uh college studies at the University of Florida.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so so you're you're a gator to start, huh?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I went to University of Florida.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it was was not my plan.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was originally going to go to Case Western, but when they gave me a partial scholarship and I couldn't come up with the rest of the money at the time, but University of Florida gave me a full scholarship, so I went there instead and I didn't regret it at all.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you were in the band, right?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: The marching band.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was for my first year.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm uh I'm not a Florida guy, but I'm I'm in the SEC.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been in the South, so I'm actually I'm an Arkansas Razorback.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but anytime I see, you know, Florida, Georgia, I spend a lot of time in Atlanta, Texas, you know, all that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there's uh I I root for Florida when we're not playing them, of course.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I root for anybody except for when we're playing.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or except for when it's Tennessee because my cousin's from Tennessee.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Can't share for Tennessee.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, man, it is an honor to have you on the Books for Guys podcast today, and very uh, for lack of a better word, again, honored to spotlight you and your work.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I see your new book, Vulnerable in the background, which was just released.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's weird for me to say last month.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's been within the month of just the last few weeks.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: It officially came out.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's uh what's the what's the last three weeks been like for you since it came out?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: What are uh what are some of the I've been getting a lot of calls from people, especially people that I've known at different parts of my life and uh who followed up with me, and then you know, I've been hearing from others as well that I didn't know telling me about you know the impact of it and especially the fact that very few men actually speak out about this topic of abuse.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually one that society prefers to keep quiet.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in and you know, in my case, I did for 50 years.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I said nothing to the outside world.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Only a few close friends and family knew what had happened.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I just feel like it's time for the dialogue to happen.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh I mean it's a lot of courage it it must have been to sit down and actually share your story because this is unique.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've done you've done so many incredible things over your life.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of that is kind of part of your story of you've kind of hidden some of the stuff and struggles you went through, but you've gone on to do so many incredible and successful things, and you've lived all over the country and the world.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: You've uh you've led rather large organizations in certain areas.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would just love for you to share your story.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just just kind of what took place, why you decided to hide it for the time being, and then what really prompted you to say, hey, I'm done keeping this a secret.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think I can help people by putting this story out there.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: What was that moment that really triggered that idea for you to sit down and write this?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't I it wasn't like an epiphany moment where I said, I need to sit down and put this out to the world.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually more of I turned 65 years old and I started to write a little bit about what was happening in my life and what had happened because a friend of mine threw a virtue because we have friends all over the world.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so we had several hundred people come on.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wrote about this and uh and and wanted to share it with everyone.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: However, everyone else spoke and I didn't get a chance to speak.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't get a chance to share it.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: But after it was over, I thought, wow, this is an in this is a good outline of my life.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should sit down and start writing a little bit.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that turned into four months of nonstop writing and just continuously putting it out there.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought, well, let me see if anybody's interested in publishing it.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I went ahead and I sent it to quite a few publishers and nobody picked up on it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: I had people who said to me that the topic was just not a topic that was that had broad interest.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: So then I got some advice from an editor who said, you know, I only do business books.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: He had done one of my other business books because I write business books as well.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So he he had done that and he said, you know, what you should really do is look for a literary agent.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started putting it out to literary agents.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, very quickly I had one that came back to me.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and um during my conversation with him, he said he really resonated with the topic and thought it was time for the topic to be discussed.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he put so much effort into sending this out to publishers and really selling publishers on the value of it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And within two weeks, we got a slew of not interested.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of discouraging.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: But then I thought, okay, well, maybe it's just not gonna happen and I'll put it out from I'll self-publish to my family.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I told him to stop working on it and a week later start publishing.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Evan and Nathan came came around and said, no, we want the book, which was which was not planned.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: That why do you think because again, yeah, you I was gonna mention your your business books too.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have Transforming Teams, which has been a really big one.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Worlds Aparts, another story.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: You have different books that you've written.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: This one obviously being a lot different than those, especially just because of your personal story.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: What were, you know, without telling too much, because I want people to to buy the book and dig in, but what were some of the things that you wrote about in this book that that you struggled with?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know you talked about abuse, but what were some of the things you went through?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, I'll I'll just give a synopsis.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, basically, my father was extremely abusive and he was not, he did not single out any one member of the family.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was abusive to everyone.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So he was physically and emotionally sexually abusive.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was an alcoholic.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: He ultimately suicided when I was 15.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I by the time I was 15, I had had, I had gone through a lot of abuse from my father, but I had two other events happen too.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: When I was six, I was burned in a fire.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was seven, I was bit by a dog, had over a hundred stitches that I had to get in my face.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of trauma that happened when I was a child.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so then when I went off to college, there was only one person in the university, my friend Jay, who knew about my past.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I used it as an opportunity to shove everything in the past and reinvent myself.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I reinvented myself as this had a perfect life person and went on with my life and kept wearing that mask for most of my adult life.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So portraying high confidence and everything.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would do things like, for example, my the teams that I've led have won over a hundred different awards for learning and development around the world.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've come in number one in the world for learning and development with Booze Allen Hamilton, with Satyam, which is an Indian company that I work with.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I never went up and collected the award myself because I never felt worthy.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was always, I always had a routine for 30 years that I would collect names from people who wanted to go to the conference or the event, and I would draw a name out of the hat, that person would go and collect the award, not me.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was only until about a year and a half ago that the company I was with won an award.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know what?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's my turn.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I went up on the stage and proudly accepted it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And for the first time in my life, I felt worthy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I thought, how many more people are going through this, you know, besides me?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that silence is just eating them alive.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not about saying, you know, I want your pity or anything like that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: The book's not about that at all.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I actually talk about five principles that help me get through, like one of them being grow through what you go through.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So another one being about being adaptable in lifelong learning.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I go through these principles.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I also talk about different mantras that I had that helped me.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm hopeful that the things that I used as tools will help other people as tools.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting, Ed, because I'm this is ironic.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just released an episode today with an individual.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about happiness, but we also talk a lot about how high achievers sometimes are the ones struggling the most because of certain aspects that, you know, either things have happened in their life or they don't feel good enough.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: For one reason or another, there's a lot of underlying things.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it seems like you've gone through that similar and for good reason.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've had a lot of people.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're a poster child for that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was just sitting here thinking, I mean, you went through things that most people can't imagine what that's like.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly can't.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got to read your book and really think, put myself in your shoes to understand what any of that is like.
• 9:21
  unknown: Right.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it also, you know, I'm sitting here thinking you've you've accomplished all these things, an author, a speaker, you're leading these big companies, but on the inside, you're admitting you didn't feel happy or worthy.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: There were things you were struggling with.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, again, it's such a good reason.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm so proud that you've put this work out there because there's probably a lot of other people that are having similar feelings or struggles.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: It may not be the exact things you went through, but there are people out there that are probably looking at themselves going, like, why am I struggling?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I not feel good enough?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I, why do I have these thoughts?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really good to have someone to sympathize with like yourself.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I did have, it's not, I'm not going to say that my whole life has been a burden.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I got married.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a I've had a marriage that's lasted 38 years, you know, raised children, helped people raise their children.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got very close friends and family around the world.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been very blessed.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But there was always something gnawing at me.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: There was always this thing that I couldn't talk about that was gnawing.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I hit it by overachieving, by spending excessive amount of time in the gym, by, by, you know, eating and per you know, binging and purging.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And early on, I talk about how I even, you know, just to be perfectly transparent, I even had sex randomly with lots of with anybody who would was willing, you know, because it was, these are all like ways that I dealt with it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, a friend of mine, the the editor from the other company, he went through s significant abuse as a child, and he told me something that was very profound that abuse happens three times.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: When it does happen, it's perpetuated by the person who's the abuser.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then after the abuse ends, it's perpetuated by society that encourages silence.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third way is it's by the self-abuse that we put on ourselves, by the torture that we put ourselves through by not talking about it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I find I find it fascinating too, just you know, your struggle with actually getting the book originally, you know, someone to buy into it and publish it, because we we as a society on the outside, it seems like we we want to encourage vulnerability, but we really don't at the same time, which is interesting.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: People, people say it, but when it comes down to it, they don't want to be associated with it or they don't want to back it because they just want to pretend everything's all fine and dandy.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think more of that needs to be shared too, because it does seem like we've taken a turn a little bit to where people are becoming a little more comfortable sharing their story and and some of the things they go through because they do realize it helps.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of us are going through these struggles.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's gotten a little bit better.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're talking about, you know, trying to publish a book and people are like, I don't think this isn't the content we want to put out there, it still highlights the hesitancy to be associated with it, which is, I don't know, the the right term for it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's strange and unfortunate.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And but hopefully, you know, having someone like yourself be able to publish this story, maybe that can open up the door for others as well.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for people to feel freer to discuss and to have more open conversations about it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know what?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: By having open more open conversations about it and people feeling like they don't have to keep the silence, maybe it'll actually reduce some of the abuse that's happening.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it'll give people the courage to say, this is happening to me now, not 50 years ago, and and get out of it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of that situation.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that'll keep abusers to think maybe that'll make them think twice before abusing, you know, knowing that they could be outed as they should for doing things that that's not right.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ed, when you got to kind of the end of writing your story, did you have a moment of all at all of hesitancy just before deciding to move forward with sharing it to try and get it published?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a moment where you were like, okay, I wrote this, I don't know if I'm 100% comfortable in moving forward with sharing it, you know, now that I've written it?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or or did you have, once you started, were you like, no matter what, this is this is I was on a mission to get it published, and uh then more current events for me, I suffered from some recurring infections, and then I actually got sepsis and had to have emergency surgery, which I'm still recovering from.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so that happened as the book was rolling out, and uh I actually found myself not thinking, do I really want to put this out there?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: At the time I was looking for a publisher, I found myself thinking, should I have done this after the book came out?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And even today I think to myself, wow, this is pretty intense stuff.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't even read it right now because it's so intense.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the way the way it's written and everything.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's kind of dredged up a lot for me that I'm I'm actually dealing with with a therapist right now.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you hope, you know, as people do read this book, there's gonna be a wide range of people that read it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be people like me who who have not experienced that, thankfully.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have people who have experienced some of these things and they're gonna feel every moment that you share, and it's gonna send them down an emotional roller coaster too, I'm sure.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that you hope, though, that each of the readers take away from your story?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: What message are you are you wanting them to run with as they read it?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, that there is a way to get out of the the darkness that you're left with.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I talk about the ways I did the five principles that I leverage for myself, the mantras such as I am enough, I've always been enough.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I talk about that, and then uh I also give a 28-week A-Z set of activities that people can do.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh my hope is that people will follow those because that can give you a path to healing.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not someone who has not been through abuse, um I think the book is valuable for them too, because everyone has either got a friend or a family member or someone that they know that has suffered from it, or they're an advocate for some for this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the book is written for a large audience, not just men who suffer in silence, but women too, and advocates and those who live with those who have suffered abuse and those who know others.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that happened is I had somebody who read the book who wrote a review on Amazon and said, I know at least two other people who need to read this book.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of it is is that type of word-of-mouth chain.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that's a positive thing.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Ed, you mentioned, you know, 28 activities that someone can do to kind of get through this.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: What what are some of those activities?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm gonna let me pull the book.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, what would you mind sharing?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think those are I I love to talk about actionable things that people can can do as they, you know, instead of just thinking what's something they can physically go do.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I talk about the five principles grow through what you go through, value the support of others, pursue lifelong learning and adaptability, cultivate meaningful relationships and stay purposeful and relevant.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then I talk about how you can implement those.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then it goes into the um the 28 weeks, the A to Z healing challenge is what I call it.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's 26 weeks.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in phase one, it starts out with week one, acknowledge the truth.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Healing begins with honesty.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Naming what happened is not a weakness, it's the foundation of strength.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Write down one truth you've never admitted, not to anyone else, just to yourself.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: What truth am I?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in general, what truth am I finally ready to stop avoiding?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that applies to everyone.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: It even applies to you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: There is something that you have hidden from the world.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be abuse, it could be whatever, you know, whatever it is.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you have something, what is that one truth that you've never admitted?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then um what truth are you ready to stop avoiding?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second week is breathe through fear.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Fear lives in our body.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes your nervous system still reacts to things that are no longer threats.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Breathing brings you back to the present, and it gives a technique for that box breathing, and then has them journal.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So each week it's it talks about that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it and I had it go from A to Z.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the third one, first one is acknowledge, first, second one breathe, third one cultivate, which starts with a C.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the A to Z of healing, basically.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: What is uh do you mind me asking what Z is?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Z is.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine this was fun for you to put together too, as a just a personal challenge.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It actually took longer than everything else.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Z is zoom out.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You are not where you started, your story has shaped.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Try this, create a visual timeline hearing of your healing and mark the running points and then journal what proof do I have that I'm becoming whole.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Zoom out and and take a bigger picture of what you've gone through and where you've come from.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the harder part was not Z as much as it was X.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: X.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's X?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So X is X-ray your patterns.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Patterns until they're seen.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Patterns repeat until they're seen.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Gently name what's asking you to change.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or to really take a close look at your patterns, but looking below the the surface.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, those are good.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I and uh again, if if someone hasn't been through abuse, these are all things you can apply in one way or another to your life and and how to get through something or better yourself.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it does there, there's so many different people it can impact.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ed with you putting this book out, and it may be something you're still kind of working through and figuring out for yourself, and and you've been you know in the business world for so long, what's your vision for just your your future look like?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you plan to make this a focal point of helping others and spending a lot of time through this work?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are you still trying to, you know, do business, but have this as something that, you know, again, it's vulnerability, so people can can relate more.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's what's your vision look like now that this book's out there?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm glad you asked.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I've done is I've pivoted.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of talking about leadership and and teamwork and strategy, which has been my topics for most of my career, now I'm talking about vulnerability and how leaders can be more authentic.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so still speaking to leaders because that's the audience I have the most access to, but also broadening it as well whenever I have the opportunity, such as this podcast.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because as someone, again, who's done, like you said, all the leaderships and all like you've got such a great foundational platform now to be able to use this story for good and to help other leaders and people, it just seems right that you would focus on this and have that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure, well, I mean, I hope that a lot of companies and leaders are receptive and are reaching out saying, hey Ed, we could use you, you know, to come in and talk about this.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it would bring teams closer together uh than ever before.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I've and I've I'm sure you've seen this too, Ed.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've always liking with individuals like yourself who have worked with organizations and leaders, especially, I don't want to say different errors, but just like 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and now people are so different.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's this mixture of of people who have operated in in one way and another coming up that they're totally different.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that played a part in it as well?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can imagine.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine, you know, I've worked with leaders that they're kind of the more old school approach.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: You don't share feelings, you talk work, and that's it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I've also experienced people who are a little more vulnerable.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they, they, they tell you about their struggles and you tell them about yours, and you almost build a little bit of a better bond.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: But is that something you experienced over your time and career to where almost you felt more comfortable now because of where we're at as a maybe a society that is a little more vulnerable in general, I guess?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think so in America.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there are a lot of other countries where this topic is still a never speakabout topic.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we lived in India for seven years.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a lot of people from India reach out saying how brave it is that I wrote about it, but it is still a taboo topic.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: People don't talk about this in India at all.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of parts of the world where it's just unspoken.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And people will wonder.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are people who are going to judge and wonder why on earth would he talk about this?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Why on earth would he even consider this?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was time for me to do it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you said that too.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of us we forget about how lucky we are to live where we do.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of things we're able to say and do.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you agree or disagree, we at least have the ability to share and uh and and write things like this.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, a lot of other places we we think we're we think it's unacceptable here.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's very unacceptable, you know, in other places and and wouldn't be looked at in the right way.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I think that's something we can't overstate enough.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I man, I just I I appreciate you taking the time to write this book and and come on our podcast to share because obviously, as we're, you know, our our our platforms for everybody or anybody that's interested, but it is specifically it's books for guys, you know, there's guys out there that they just they they try to be strong.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: As a man, you've got a lot of responsibility, family job to be a provider.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of times you do mask what you're struggling with, and sometimes you don't have a group of friends uh to lean on to have those discussions, but you may have a moment where you can have some quiet time and read a book like yours to where they can learn something and be able to, you know, and I hope they I hope they email you and text you and tell you how impactful it's been because I bet there are I can't even imagine how many people are going to appreciate the work you put out there because of something that's going to resonate with them.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just I hope over the next six to twelve months and longer that you just continue to receive those messages from men specifically who are reading this.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I can be reached at edcohen.org.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we set it up as a.org because we're actually donating the royalties from this book and also the world's apart book.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: The world's apart book is about mentoring.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: My wife and I mentoring a young girl who is the daughter of a housekeeper in India who went on to be her, the mother was forced into marriage at 11.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Her sister was forced into marriage at 14, but we convinced the mother not to marry her off as long as she stayed in school.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we made sure she stayed in school, and today she works for Microsoft.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a and it's a actually dual narrative book, The World's Apart, primarily for the Indian audience.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one chapter about her life, one chapter about my life until we meet.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then it goes back and forth, our impressions of each other and and what happened.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I was gonna say, I'm actually I'm in the process of get getting that book and all your others on the Books for Guys platform as well.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So for everyone listening, all of Ed's books, including that one, will be on there and they'll be spotlighted so you can go find them and uh, you know, hopefully pick them up and read them as well.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Ed, I've got one last question for you.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, it's something I it's a it's a positive ending.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love asking everyone this question because it's uh everyone has to give a different answer, or they typically do.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But as someone who's written uh several books, I'm sure you're an avid reader as well.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally, and what's a book that you love to recommend to others?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, that's a great question.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: What it comes down to for me is the the book that has had the greatest impact on my life is Paolo Coelo's The Alchemist.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it had a tremendous impact on my life.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've given it to other people and it's impacted their lives.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it just helped me to see that that you can overcome challenges and that it's really not about the challenge, it's about the learning that comes out of those challenges and where you end up.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great recommendation, Ed.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a deep read for a lot of people.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I think of actually fun read.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a fun read because it's an adventure.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking of we we have had one other guest mention that book, and that's Joel Goldberg, who's uh actually the sideline reporter for the Kansas City Royals.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he said he recently he tried to read it before, wasn't really ready to take what it was given him.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so a few years later he revisited it with intentionality, and he was saying how he's never gotten more from a book in his life just because of everything.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was just he he it was just sinking in the right way.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, so that's that's great that you you recommended that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: But no, Ed, again, thank you for taking the time to do this.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are so proud to spotlight your story, your work, and all that comes with it.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wishing you nothing but success and uh just a big impact with this book, as I have no doubt uh it will have a big one.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so looking forward to seeing what all that looks like and just man, just keep doing good work, man.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: It it means a lot, and I know you'll you'll impact a lot of people.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ed.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you, Chris.