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Should We Be Mining the Ocean Floor, The Hidden Costs No One Is Talking About · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  The largest ecosystem on Earth is about to be mined, and most people on the
• 0:04
  planet don't even know it's happening.
• 0:07
  Decisions are being made right now about the Ocean floor, thousands
• 0:10
  of meters below the surface with consequences that could last longer
• 0:14
  than human civilization itself.
• 0:16
  We're gonna talk about why that's so important for the future of the Ocean and
• 0:18
  future for conservation and the people where this mining is going to happen.
• 0:22
  On this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 0:25
  Let's start the show.
• 0:28
  Hey everybody.
• 0:28
  Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 0:31
  I'm your host, Angelou and Marine biologist and science communicator
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  here to tell you what's happening with the Ocean, how you can speak up for
• 0:37
  the Ocean, and what you can do to live for a better Ocean by taking action.
• 0:41
  And today, as we kind of wrap up the annual year of 2025, there have been
• 0:46
  a lot of things going on in the Ocean.
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  Some of them I've covered extensively, like over the past week or so.
• 0:52
  We've covered the offshore plan, the US offshore plan for oil
• 0:55
  and gas drilling, and the leases that's going on right there.
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  We're covering a lot more in the future.
• 1:00
  I've got a different episode for 2026, but today we're gonna be covering
• 1:03
  something that I've been expressly covering throughout the year as the
• 1:06
  topic of deep sea mining has become.
• 1:09
  A huge priority it seems in the US and it's something that we need to talk about.
• 1:15
  And so I wanted to kind of reset a little bit.
• 1:17
  We've had Dr. Andrew Thaler on the podcast to talk about deep sea
• 1:20
  mining, fed other people as well, but Andrew has been on a number of
• 1:23
  times to kind of give us the low down.
• 1:25
  I wanted to kind of.
• 1:25
  Summarize, you know what it is that we're gonna be talking about?
• 1:28
  Like what is deep sea mining, the types, I know we've gone over it before,
• 1:31
  but just in case you haven't seen those episode, what those types are.
• 1:34
  We're gonna talk about what the International Seabed Authority is, what
• 1:37
  their role is in all this, and why this is happening in the US mining and RFIs,
• 1:41
  and all these requests for information and public comment is happening in the
• 1:44
  US and where it's happening and why it's so scary that it's happening right now.
• 1:48
  And then we're gonna talk about what you can do.
• 1:50
  Write the audience.
• 1:51
  What you can do after listening to this, if you feel inspired, you feel
• 1:54
  charged to say, Hey, I don't want this happening in my backyard, in the us.
• 1:58
  Or maybe you're in the Pacific Islands where a lot of this deep
• 2:00
  sea mining is proposed, and you're like, no, not in my backyard.
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  I don't want this to happen.
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  We're gonna talk about that on today's episode.
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  By the way, speaking of the Pacific Islands, I just want
• 2:10
  to make a quick announcement.
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  There is a podcast that I, I'm creating as a co-host, a different podcast
• 2:15
  that's gonna be on the network.
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  It's gonna be live, it's gonna be on YouTube.
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  We're gonna put the recordings on audio, but it's gonna be with my
• 2:22
  dear friend Angelo Villa Gomez, who is from the Mariana Islands.
• 2:26
  I lives in dc, works in Ocean conservation, and the guy's amazing.
• 2:31
  We get along really well.
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  We decided to do a podcast together.
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  It's been in the works for the last few months, something
• 2:35
  I've always wanted to do.
• 2:37
  So I'm very excited to sort of, kind of tease that a little bit.
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  It's gonna be a lot of fun.
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  I can't wait.
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  It's gonna be live on YouTube And then we're going to put it on audio after that.
• 2:45
  So keep an eye out for that in 2026.
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  It's gonna be a lot of fun.
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  And we're gonna talk about Deep Sea money.
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  We're gonna talk about Marion Islands.
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  We're gonna talk about on that podcast, like indigenous conservation and
• 2:56
  indigenous knowledge and knowledge systems and everything like that.
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  But we're gonna talk a lot about conservation in general.
• 3:01
  It's gonna be a. Ton of fun.
• 3:03
  We're gonna talk about some really great topics and I can't wait to do that.
• 3:06
  Okay, let's start talking about deep sea mining.
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  So the first thing is like, what is deep sea mining?
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  Let's talk about the foundation.
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  The simple definition is deep sea mining is the extraction of minerals from the
• 3:16
  Ocean floor, usually thousands of meter below the surface, these minerals.
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  Are used in batteries, electronics, renewable energy technologies,
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  and military equipment.
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  Unlike land mining, this happens in ecosystems that have evolved over millions
• 3:30
  of years with almost no disturbance.
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  So there's definitely an environmental significance to this and a very.
• 3:37
  Cautious flag that's going up when we talk about deep sea mining.
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  But why are companies wanting to mine the deep sea?
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  There's a growing demand for metals like cobalt, nickel, copper, manganese,
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  and other rare earth minerals.
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  Obviously on land.
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  When they land in other countries, countries control that.
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  There are some human rights violations and human rights concerns with a
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  lot of the mining is happening in Africa for these very same metals.
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  It's framed as like a necessary for energy transition and to take pressure
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  off landmines that have a lot of human rights abuses attached to it.
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  And it's often marketed as a cleaner than land-based mining.
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  But that's heavily contested 'cause we don't really know what this mining can do.
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  Well, we kind of do, we have some preliminary research of what
• 4:21
  this mining can do, and we'll talk about that in a minute.
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  But there's three types of mining for the deep sea.
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  There's polymetallic nodules, so these are potato sized rocks
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  scattered across the abyssal plane.
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  They're found about 4,000 to 6,000 meters deep.
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  They contain nickel, cobalt, manganese, and copper, which are
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  those metals that we're looking for.
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  And the method is just giant machines that vacuum them off the seabed.
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  Now, when they vacuum off the seabed, it almost.
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  Sounds harmless, like they're just taking those little potato sized rocks, but
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  they're actually taking up a lot of that initial layer that of sand or gravel or
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  whatever's at the bottom of the Ocean and all the animals that are within that.
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  So the nodules grow over millions of years and our habitat for some deep sea life.
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  There are a lot of different things that we have to worry
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  about when it comes to that.
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  Now there's C four massive sulfide.
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  Found near hydrothermal vents, rich in copper, zinc, gold, and silver.
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  The mining method is cutting and grinding vent structures.
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  And then the problem with that is hydrothermal vents
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  support unique ecosystems that exist nowhere else on earth.
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  Plus, we still don't know it's roll within the deep sea proper.
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  And if we start mining those hydrothermal vents or the areas
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  around those hydrothermal vent.
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  It could be a big problem for our entire ecosystem.
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  Again, there's a lot of mystery around what could happen if we disrupt a
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  lot of these hydrothermal vents.
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  And then there's cobalt rich crust, so found on underwater
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  mountains called sea mounts form.
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  A hard crust over rock mining method is scraping and cutting the crust off.
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  So the problem is it destroys slow growing coral and sponge ecosystems, which.
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  To be fair, we don't even see, I think when you think about sea mounts, think
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  about these large mountain ranges and they kind of are flat at the top.
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  They're gonna be cutting pieces of those out.
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  But there are animals on that.
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  There're sponges, there are corals, there are different
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  animals that provide habitats.
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  And these sea mounts are really diverse with unique organisms and
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  species that have these areas.
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  And so to disrupt all that.
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  Again is disrupting.
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  It's probably one of the most destructive types of deep sea mining.
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  So, you know, we have all these different ways, these three different ways.
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  We know what deep sea mining is.
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  Now, you probably wonder like if we're gonna go through with this, there's
• 6:30
  gotta be some type of body that looks after and make sure that people are
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  not going too far and too crazy and destroying the Ocean by trying to
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  get all these metals up and around.
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  So there is what's called UN International Seabed Authority.
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  Okay, and this authority is the ISA.
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  This authority, it's UN affiliated, is created under the UN
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  Convention of the Law of the Sea.
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  So you have to be a signatory of the Law of the Sea to participate.
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  It's responsible for regulating, mining and international waters,
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  also known as the area, which is like anything in the high.
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  Sea.
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  So anything that is not managed by a country, the ISA is looking at it.
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  Other than that, the countries can manage their own deep sea mining,
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  And so the mandate is to protect the Marine environment, ensure
• 7:14
  benefits are shared globally.
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  That's the key here because what happens is when you mine in, in high Seas.
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  And you could destroy the environment like we talked about.
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  We still don't know the full ramifications or consequences of this mining.
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  Let's be honest.
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  Probably not gonna be good.
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  And we just don't know how it's gonna affect the areas where
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  that mining's gonna happen.
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  So for instance, I'm Canadian.
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  If a Canadian company goes in, in say the Pacific, and there's all these
• 7:40
  islands around where they're mining, they start to say the Claptons,
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  Clipon area, something like that.
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  If they start going after that area and all this destruction
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  happens, and those areas are.
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  Affected, like they have the consequences, but they don't take any of the benefit.
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  The ISA makes sure that they get some of the benefit of that because they're
• 7:57
  the closest land masses to that area.
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  So it's a lot of regulation, it's a lot of, you know, making sure that everything
• 8:03
  is equal and making sure that we are not.
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  Disrupting the balance of the environment, but also socially and economically, the
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  people around that live around there and have to deal with the consequences.
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  Very much like climate change where everybody's gotta have a say and everybody
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  has to be not necessarily equal per se.
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  Obviously it'd be nice if it was everybody was equal, but there are some voices that
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  are louder than others, let's just say.
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  And the ISA has been going back.
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  Forth with a lot of countries and scientists And so forth, and there's
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  been some corruption in the past.
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  Now there's a new leader, a new chair of this ISA that's more environmentally
• 8:34
  focused, so they're taking their time.
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  And to be honest, as Dr. Andrew Thaler has been on the podcast before, he said,
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  Hey, like it's time that we just make sure that we are doing great things.
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  Like we have an opportunity to make sure that these regulations are going to help.
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  And if they help, then we are able to make sure that we're not
• 8:49
  destroying the environment so we have a chance to get it right.
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  This is the chance to make sure that deep sea mining doesn't affect the
• 8:55
  environment as much as we think it is, or if it is, it's just locally and it's
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  not that big of a deal, and we make sure we take the measures to do this.
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  But there are some companies out there who just wanna start and they
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  don't care about the environment.
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  They don't care as much.
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  Although I'm not gonna say every company's like that.
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  Certain people like know that they need to do this to help with the new renewables,
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  so they want to help with climate change.
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  But we have to be careful.
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  We are in uncharted territory here and we don't know what bad
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  things we can do to the Ocean.
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  And let's be honest, we do bad things to the Ocean all the time.
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  And so this is a chance to stop that from happening through regulation
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  and making sure we do things right.
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  So right now the ISA has issued exploration contracts to multiple
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  countries and companies and some commercial mining regulations
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  are still not finalized.
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  And environmental standards are incomplete and heavily debated
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  still, so it's still a big problem.
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  With that said, And then many scientists say that baseline data
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  is insufficient to assess any type of harm, so we don't have enough.
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  There's been a huge rush from scientists and organizations and institutes to try
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  and get as much information as possible, but we're pretty much starting from
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  scratch, And so we don't know everything.
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  There has been some research, which we'll talk about in just a minute.
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  So the core problem here is.
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  Mining may begin before there are strong enough regulations
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  to prevent irreversible damages.
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  Now these are just exploratory, so it's not gonna be huge damages, and it's a
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  chance for researchers to really look at what those damages are gonna be.
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  And there's some research that have come out recently that showed that the
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  regeneration of animals and diversity of those animals within a specific area that
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  has been mined two years past from mining still hasn't recovered to the full amount.
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  So imagine if those areas are constantly being mined.
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  What's gonna happen to those areas and how that's gonna affect just the
• 10:31
  length of regeneration of those animals.
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  And the succession rate, the rate of replacement is not as high as we
• 10:38
  probably thought in the first place.
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  Now it's worms and a lot of invertebrates and things like that, but it's diverse
• 10:42
  and they're there for a reason.
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  They're not just there for the fun of it, And so we just don't
• 10:46
  know exactly what they're there for and why they're so important.
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  So with all of this, like the ISA is still being very cautious in
• 10:53
  giving out these types of permits.
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  And even like it gave out permits to Norway and Norway all of a
• 10:57
  sudden was like, you know what?
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  We're not gonna do this.
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  We've decided not to do this and we're gonna put it off till 2032, which is
• 11:03
  great for the Ocean to find out, hey, make sure we're not destroying the
• 11:06
  environment in the process of exploration.
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  So they're gonna hold off.
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  So.
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  The ISA is doing a really great job in tempering the expectations of companies
• 11:14
  and what were they're gonna be able to do, so we can't just go tomorrow.
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  That was really until this past year, and in 2025, we got
• 11:23
  something that was very scary.
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  The Metals company, a Canadian company, believe it or not,
• 11:27
  went to the US and said, Hey.
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  Let's mine the Deep Sea within us waters.
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  We don't need the ISA and the US is not part of the ISA 'cause it's not part of
• 11:35
  the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea.
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  They're not part of that.
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  So they don't need to worry about the ISA.
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  They're not a voting member, but they can still mine Deep Sea
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  Mine within their own country.
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  Instead, the US is pursuing deep sea seabed mining within its own
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  waters because they haven't been part of the talks of the ISA.
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  Because let's just say there's an administration that is more
• 11:55
  worried about gaining natural resources and using its natural
• 11:58
  resources for money and extraction.
• 12:00
  They're not necessarily worried about the environment.
• 12:03
  Let's be honest.
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  They don't care about the people around it.
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  They've shown that because of where they've put the sites.
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  So there are two sites.
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  There's been.
• 12:10
  Request for information for these leasing areas.
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  What that means is they put out a public comment period and they put
• 12:16
  out information that they're getting companies to put out information.
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  So if they can get interest, generate interest from industry that wants
• 12:22
  to do deep sea mining in the Ocean, those companies will start to apply to
• 12:26
  this request for information to say, Hey, this is how we're gonna do it.
• 12:30
  This is what we plan on doing.
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  This is how it's gonna benefit your country and all this kind of stuff,
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  and we're gonna minimize the impact and all that kind of stuff, even
• 12:36
  though it hasn't been researched on how they can minimize it.
• 12:38
  There's also a public comment period where people from the Marion Islands
• 12:42
  and all over the US and all over the world can actually comment and say what
• 12:45
  they have to say to say, you know what?
• 12:46
  Let's not do this.
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  'cause we're really worried about the environment.
• 12:49
  We're really worried about our islands, and we don't know what
• 12:52
  the ramifications are gonna be.
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  So there's been RFIs in two places.
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  One in the American Samoa that was issued.
• 12:57
  Last June in 2025 and one that was recently issued in November, but the
• 13:02
  public comment period extended for 30 days into halfway through January, which we'll
• 13:07
  talk about on the new podcast with Angelo.
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  Those two places have been the focus of these areas.
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  Now, both of these are in the Pacific Islands.
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  Both of these, the 200 nautical miles contains probably about almost 90%
• 13:19
  of US waters, and unfortunately, it's affecting just a small
• 13:23
  population that doesn't even have.
• 13:25
  The proper representation in the government.
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  These are US territories.
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  They put out information and a lot of the feedback from the American Samoa,
• 13:33
  were looking at a variety of things, so looking at equality, making sure like
• 13:38
  the environment's gonna be protected.
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  They're not sure about what's gonna happen to local people from.
• 13:42
  An economic point of view, an environmental point of
• 13:44
  view, a safety point of view.
• 13:46
  'cause you have to remember when this mining occurs, there are machines
• 13:49
  now at the bottom and they're sucking up parts of that first layer.
• 13:52
  So probably like a little bit into the layer.
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  It's not just sucking up nodules.
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  You're sucking up the sand and the animals that go into it.
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  It goes into a pipe that goes all the way up to the surface of the
• 14:01
  boat where it gets processed, right?
• 14:04
  So you have this huge thing that goes into the middle of the water column.
• 14:07
  It goes all the way down to the seabed.
• 14:09
  And then it just sucks up things as it goes up like a vacuum.
• 14:12
  All that stuff is the noise.
• 14:15
  Everything that goes on, maybe spills or leaks or anything that could
• 14:18
  happen could be bad for that area.
• 14:21
  The Maryanne is the one that's just announced in November.
• 14:24
  The scary part is it's right near the Mary and the Trench, which is a national
• 14:27
  monument, and that's been a special place for the CNMI, the Marina Islands.
• 14:31
  And so people are worried and they're concerned about that.
• 14:34
  So that public period is still going on.
• 14:36
  American Samoa, there was a huge public outcry to say, Hey, we don't want this.
• 14:39
  We're very worried about this, but because they had enough interest from the industry
• 14:45
  that RFI turns into the next step in the process, which I'm not sure what that is,
• 14:49
  but they'll start probably looking at more environmental assessments and looking at
• 14:52
  how it's going to affect the environment.
• 14:54
  So it's the next.
• 14:54
  Part of issuing leases for everybody.
• 14:57
  So that's what's happening, you know, in the American mode.
• 15:00
  Nothing's happening yet, but let's be honest, once this lease goes
• 15:04
  up, they could pretty much start mining as quickly as possible.
• 15:07
  Will the fruits of that mining, the metals that come up from that mine be
• 15:11
  issued and put into processing right away?
• 15:13
  Probably not because there's still a lot of exploration that has to be done.
• 15:17
  It's not an efficient process at this point 'cause it's just,
• 15:19
  just pretty much brand new.
• 15:21
  And so there's gonna be a lot of stuff going on probably won't be put in
• 15:23
  according to Andrew Thaler into regular production for another like 50 years.
• 15:27
  So, you know, it's something to think.
• 15:28
  It's like it's, even though if we start mining today, still
• 15:31
  not gonna be put in 50 years.
• 15:32
  But the interesting thing is by that time, the global market could have shifted.
• 15:36
  Batteries like, uh, EVs, electronic vehicles, batteries that store
• 15:41
  electricity, whether it be for your homes or these massive batteries for cities and
• 15:46
  municipalities and regions And so forth.
• 15:48
  Those are all evolving quicker than we can say it.
• 15:52
  And there are a lot of these batteries that are coming in that are planned
• 15:55
  or that are being tested that don't even require these rare earth metals.
• 15:59
  So what are we doing here?
• 16:01
  Do we really need it that fast or is it just like a new industry
• 16:05
  that wants to get started?
• 16:06
  'cause there's a lot of money involved and it's like here, no evil, see no evil.
• 16:10
  If we don't see anything that's below the Ocean, we don't hear anything bad.
• 16:14
  That's really what happens.
• 16:15
  They do it with oil and gas.
• 16:16
  When they get a big spill and they want to get rid of the oil, they're
• 16:19
  saying, oh, we're cleaning up the oil.
• 16:21
  But they're actually just dispersing the oil so it gets hidden down
• 16:24
  to the bottom of the Ocean.
• 16:25
  And the chemicals they used to disperse it are even worse than the actual oil.
• 16:29
  It is on the environment.
• 16:30
  So like, again.
• 16:30
  I ask, what are we doing here?
• 16:32
  What are we talking about in terms of like, is this worth ruining an
• 16:36
  environment that we know nothing about or virtually nothing about?
• 16:39
  We do know that the regeneration of these ecosystems down below take
• 16:43
  longer than we initially expected.
• 16:45
  More than two years.
• 16:46
  Again, is it really worth the production and the cost?
• 16:50
  And the payment is gonna give if these are not put into play, if these
• 16:54
  are just, you know, we don't know really what to do with them after.
• 16:57
  So it's a big problem that we're going through and the fact that the
• 17:00
  US is rushing it without learning about what's happening with the ISA,
• 17:04
  not using their regulations because they're not a signatory to the UN
• 17:08
  Convention of the Law of the Sea.
• 17:10
  It's a really scary thought.
• 17:11
  Now the question is like.
• 17:12
  What can you do about it?
• 17:13
  You listening to this or watching this on YouTube and you're
• 17:16
  like, what am I supposed to do?
• 17:17
  How am I supposed to play a role in this?
• 17:20
  Well, this is the thing.
• 17:21
  Pay attention early, follow a lot of the science communicators that are
• 17:24
  trying to get out the word of, you know, myself, Christopher Cabra, her
• 17:28
  husband, Alex Mark Haver, there's a lot of other people who are doing some really
• 17:31
  great things in telling you when these RFIs come out, where they're at, the
• 17:35
  consult and when the decision starts.
• 17:36
  By the time the mining is approved, options are limited.
• 17:39
  So the awareness at early stages actually matter.
• 17:42
  So be aware, follow science communicators, Ocean science communicators who
• 17:45
  are trying to protect the Ocean.
• 17:47
  Listen to what they say.
• 17:48
  Support precautionary, pause or moratorium.
• 17:51
  So many sciences and governments that support a pause or deep sea mining like
• 17:54
  the maranas, they want to pause and well, they wanted a moratorium on deep sea.
• 17:58
  Mike.
• 17:58
  This allows time for research, governance, and alternatives.
• 18:02
  Then the pause is not necessarily anti-technology, it's just pro knowledge.
• 18:05
  That's really what it comes down to.
• 18:07
  So then the reduced demand pressure, right?
• 18:09
  Support recycling.
• 18:10
  Support circular economy solutions.
• 18:12
  Ask where materials are coming from.
• 18:14
  Push for better product design and longer lifespans.
• 18:17
  Like, you know, we look at our phones, our phones use these rare earth minerals.
• 18:20
  We need to like demand, not just ask demand.
• 18:22
  These companies do better in making sure that our phones work without
• 18:25
  the requirements of these metals.
• 18:26
  So amplify the credible reporting.
• 18:29
  If you see something that's credible, you know you're following the right
• 18:32
  people, you can amplify that by reposting, by telling people about it.
• 18:35
  Whether it's people within your family or friend.
• 18:37
  Circle your social circle.
• 18:39
  Maybe people who are in positions of where they have a high
• 18:41
  influence, that would be the best.
• 18:43
  So journalism brings transparency to opaque processes, so that's always great.
• 18:47
  Sharing reliable reporting helps communities to be heard, and it
• 18:51
  creates records that matter later on.
• 18:53
  So this is something that's very, very important.
• 18:55
  And then you speak up when these consultations are open.
• 18:58
  So right now the CNMI consultation, the RFI is open for public comment.
• 19:02
  So public comments are part of the official record.
• 19:04
  They stay like that.
• 19:05
  They have to be shared scientists, educators, and
• 19:07
  citizens, all of them count.
• 19:09
  Silence is pretty much interpreted as consent.
• 19:11
  So don't just lie back and say, I can't do anything.
• 19:14
  I need to do something more.
• 19:16
  So basically, you know, the Deep Sea does not have its own voice.
• 19:19
  We have to be those voices.
• 19:21
  The community speaking up, people on social media, speaking up, talking
• 19:24
  about what's happening, talking and helping the people of the American Samoa
• 19:29
  people of CNMI in the Marina Islands.
• 19:31
  These are people who have to live with the consequences of
• 19:35
  these deep sea mining activities.
• 19:37
  Do we really want them to live with those consequences?
• 19:39
  No, we don't.
• 19:40
  We want them to make sure that they can live a great life.
• 19:43
  Just like we do here on the mainland.
• 19:45
  And so we wanna make sure that we're supporting the people
• 19:48
  out there on those islands.
• 19:50
  It's not about necessarily stopping progress, it's just about making sure that
• 19:53
  the decisions that are made are right for the environment and right for the people.
• 19:56
  And I think that's an important aspect.
• 19:58
  So that's what I want to focus on today.
• 20:00
  If you have any questions or comments, I'd love to hear from you and just
• 20:04
  put it down in the comments below.
• 20:05
  If you're watching this on YouTube.
• 20:06
  And of course, if you're listening to this on your favorite audio podcast platform
• 20:10
  like Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music, or whatever you're listening to, whatever it
• 20:14
  is, overcast Podcast attic, all the great podcast apps that are out there that we're
• 20:18
  on, feel free to give me some feedback.
• 20:20
  I'd love to hear.
• 20:21
  They can comment.
• 20:21
  Just go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.
• 20:25
  That's speak up for blue.com/feedback.
• 20:28
  I always love to hear from you, whether it's a voicemail or typed out.
• 20:31
  It's always great to hear from you.
• 20:32
  And then don't forget to follow, subscribe, whatever you can.
• 20:35
  It's always helpful too.
• 20:36
  So that's it for today's episode.
• 20:38
  I want thank you for joining us here on the How to Protect the OSHA podcast.
• 20:41
  I'm your host Angela and from the True North Strong and free.
• 20:44
  Have a great day.
• 20:44
  We'll talk to you next time and happy observation.