Latest / All The Right Movies / The Best of ATRM: Jan-Jun 2025

Transcript

The Best of ATRM: Jan-Jun 2025 · All The Right Movies

0:04
All the right movies. Hi, everyone.
0:11
Thank you for tuning in to All the Right Movies.
0:13
I'm Luke. As we've reached the midpoint of
0:16
the year, we thought it'd be a fun idea to pull together some
0:18
of our best bits from our classic podcast so far in 2025.
0:22
In that time, we've talked about our first and second Disney
0:25
movies. We dove into not one, but two
0:27
Denis Villeneuve films, got back in the saddle with Indy, went
0:31
back in time to 60s Hollywood Tarantino style, entered the
0:34
dark mind of David Lynch, and had our day in the dock with
0:37
Oliver Stone. If you like what you hear, you
0:40
can listen to the full episodes of these shows wherever you
0:42
listen to podcasts. And to listen to all of the
0:45
podcasts that we produced, you can become an ATRM patron.
0:48
Listen to our entire classic Podcast archive by becoming a
0:51
patron on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
0:53
And for the full experience, you can sign up on Patreon and
0:56
YouTube for all of the classic shows, plus the exclusive
0:59
podcasts we've recorded for our patrons.
1:01
That's over 80 additional podcasts, including brand new
1:04
monthly shows of our podcasts, Double Feature, and the Watch
1:07
List. But for the time being, we hope
1:09
you enjoy looking back at the year so far with ATRM.
1:15
Sicario. We open with the literal and
1:21
metaphorical bang in Chandler, AZ were introduced to Kate and
1:25
Reggie's world as the infiltrated drug ring and found
1:27
a very nasty surprise hidden in the walls.
1:31
Over to you to start us off, Westie.
1:33
OK, well, I didn't mention Roger Dickens in the intro, and that's
1:37
probably because I'm going to mention them all the way through
1:39
everything. Else.
1:40
And I was like, no, I'm just going to kind of push it down.
1:42
I'm just going to repress that thought.
1:45
But this opening shot is like, you know, when you're on holiday
1:48
and you just sit in in the apartment for a little while and
1:51
then you go outside and it's like, oh, how everything's just
1:54
so like viciously bright. You can kind of make make things
1:57
out, but it's not overexposed. And then you get them black
2:00
figures walking into the shot. It's just beautifully
2:03
contrasted. And I was just straight in.
2:05
I was like, right, OK, this makes perfect sense.
2:07
It's not an overused color palette.
2:09
It's beautifully shot. Here we'll go.
2:10
And then we'll cut it inside that vehicle, the SWAT vehicle.
2:13
I've heard deacons on the podcast say that they couldn't
2:15
really afford to get the spot vehicle and drive it through and
2:18
have these shafts of light coming through that I just saw
2:21
Enigmatic and just so quite the angels on our shoulders kind of
2:24
thing, which is in the script. So that was actually needed to
2:26
do that. So what they did is they built
2:28
this, it's made out of cardboard and they put these strips in the
2:32
cardboard and there's people rocking the set backwards and
2:34
forwards and then they're just moving the light through and
2:36
it's just catching it with the haze.
2:38
Just like they did in Blue Velvet.
2:39
Yeah, it's just unbelievable. But you can tell it's everybody
2:43
firing on all cylinders here with a budget that they're not
2:45
necessarily used to. I don't think they're used to
2:47
something, this law, especially not deacons at this point.
2:50
And I do think that this is the only of going to him and saying
2:53
I've seen no country for old men.
2:54
Can we just have a little bit of that or you know 85% of that
2:57
maybe do? That.
2:59
Just do that and it just goes from visually beautiful to just
3:03
intense. It's just so loud and just so
3:06
vibrant and that just going through the wall and you're
3:08
thinking what's going on here? Absolutely crazy and that it's
3:12
just this score that's just underneath like this, like the
3:15
devil's heartbeat. It's just pounding, but just so
3:18
distant. But it's just and it's just,
3:21
it's just reminding you that there's just something not right
3:24
before they even come through. We get that great shot of dust.
3:27
And that's a recurring theme which I think kind of reflects
3:30
them and their ghosts and the just turn up and vanish.
3:33
And we've got that as a recurring visual theme by
3:35
Volume, which works really, really well.
3:37
But there's just this really great moment where it comes to
3:41
the FBI. He shoots first, You know,
3:42
everyone's in the right, There's only two guys there.
3:44
What's he shooting that? There's nobody here.
3:46
And then there's that moment where it's just then it's a
3:48
horror film, it's what is going on and open the wall.
3:51
And then it's just how they're disgusted by the smell.
3:54
And then when that happens and then we get that score again and
3:56
there's just the camera matches that note.
3:59
It just creeps forward. Just do and people being sick
4:02
outside. It creeps behind Emily, bloody
4:04
creeps forward. It creeps towards the bodies.
4:06
And you're like, I don't want to say that it's like you're being
4:08
pulled towards are conveyable. You just don't want to come
4:10
anywhere near it. It's like you're slowly getting
4:12
pulled into this hell and then we'll get everybody on the
4:15
scene. Everybody's looking through it.
4:16
Yeah, the guys in the hazmat suit are looking through.
4:18
You get the forensic team in there, which I definitely would
4:21
have had Cate Blanchett in there to do another cameo, much like
4:24
Hot 1st, just just for the hell of it.
4:25
It would have been great. But that's just me.
4:28
Everything, Everything I did. Hello.
4:30
It would have been wonderful just to break up the tension
4:32
here. That would have been just for
4:33
the explosion. But then you see they need the
4:35
bald cutters. Something else is going on.
4:36
There's nothing over with. And then that explosion hits you
4:39
like a tonne of bricks. Like the sound design on that
4:42
volume just went. How loud can we make it?
4:44
Well, that's about as loud as what we make before people go
4:46
deaf, right? Just do that.
4:48
Then we don't make anyone deaf, but just about there until they
4:51
do, right? Great.
4:52
It's just so powerfully done, so well played.
4:55
If you don't want to watch the rest of this after the opening,
4:58
you've got a serious problem. Without the dead bodies and
5:01
without the explosion, it would still be a bloody good sequence.
5:04
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, those two things under it,
5:06
I love it when they we need the ball cutters and then it cuts to
5:09
a close up of one of those bodies in the walls and you
5:11
know, that's something really bad is going to happen.
5:14
Yeah. A lot of the back end characters
5:16
in this scene were taken up by actual SWAT, Navy SEAL, and DEA
5:19
agents, so I think it gives it a certain amount of subconscious
5:23
authenticity. Oh, it really does.
5:24
Yeah. And then because this mission
5:26
has gone so badly, Kate gets pulled in for what she thinks is
5:30
going to be a debrief. And it's definitely got that
5:32
waiting outside the teacher's office vibe, hasn't it?
5:34
Because is this a good thing she's there?
5:36
Is it a bad thing? Did Kate do anything wrong on
5:39
that mission? And it doesn't seem like, but
5:41
who knows for these people how they take these operations that
5:44
go like this too. And it's interesting when they
5:46
start talking about her suitability for the mission, how
5:49
quickly Matt, which is Brolin's character, jumps to a positive
5:52
opinion of her suitability. But he completely dismisses
5:55
Reggie. My open accord about no lawyers
5:57
on this train because even though Reggie would get totally
6:00
sooner 2 of Iraq, the fact that he has a law degree and that's a
6:03
negative for Matt, that's extremely telling what Matt
6:06
knows they're going to be doing once they're crossing the
6:07
border. He Matt's body language changes
6:09
when he hears that, and he's shot from the back.
6:11
And he just. Goes Oh yeah, that's.
6:13
Yeah, he can't see his face. Brilliant.
6:15
Yeah. And then when kid goes into the
6:17
office and starts talking, there's there's such a definite
6:19
Silence of the Lambs fields of this as well.
6:21
When she stepped in that room and it's her POV and they're all
6:24
looking at it's like that sort of Cleese going into the
6:26
elevator, which is run by all the male FBI agents.
6:29
And then those POV shots looking directly at her and it just
6:32
continues to be disoriented and without no.
6:35
And to see like all the information that gets thrown at
6:38
all, she can say, well, I'm not Privy to that and I'm not Privy
6:40
to that either. I don't know.
6:41
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, still has no idea why
6:43
she's there. And then when Matt thoughts that
6:45
question at it, if she's married or has kids, and I think it's
6:48
such an interesting question because she bristles at it
6:51
immediately. But isn't that being casually
6:53
sexist here? Also trying to work out what
6:55
kind of leverage the cartels would have over if they got hold
6:58
of her. Or even more sinister, if she
7:01
does disappear, who would be asking questions about?
7:03
The implications, yeah. What are the implications which
7:06
is never answered throughout the film, so I.
7:07
Think it's all of them things. Yeah, quite possibly, yeah.
7:11
I mean, would he ask if he did one Reggie Long?
7:13
Would he have asked Reggie if he had a wife and kids?
7:15
Maybe, maybe not. So it's left ambiguous, which I
7:18
like a lot. And then it's just Kate set up
7:20
for the rest of the journey. She's on the journey.
7:22
She doesn't know what the journey is kind of idealistic
7:26
blue eyed approach to. I want to get the people who
7:28
created this mess that I was in this morning.
7:30
Yeah. No questions asked or no
7:32
questions answered, which I think that's quite important.
7:35
Yeah, yeah. I mean, just putting trust in
7:37
the people higher above her and I think that's a mistake and
7:40
that's what we all do. You would do naturally.
7:41
Wouldn't you? But you put trust in your
7:43
government, don't you? That's what the whole, that's
7:44
what the film is trying to say is you don't quite know what's
7:46
going on, and you take an oath to it.
7:47
You go, okay, yeah, I'll trust you.
7:49
But behind the scenes it's a lot darker than you think.
7:51
Very much. And then when she gets on the
7:54
plane, I love that Matt, not this Matt.
7:57
Matt Graver, played by Royal. But you do love me.
7:59
Yeah, yeah, I love you as well, Matt.
8:01
Yeah, don't, don't get that wrong.
8:02
I love that Graver introduces Alejandro from afar to Katie.
8:09
So that's my bird dog over there, Alejandro.
8:11
But you don't know that it's del Toro until he comes on the
8:14
plane. Yeah.
8:15
There's nothing given by way of explanation from Graver, who
8:18
just curls up and goes to sleep like a dog, and he leaves Kate
8:22
in the presence of this stranger who tells her that they're going
8:25
to Juarez, which basically means you're going into the war zone.
8:29
Terrifying and very confusing from our point of view.
8:33
Kate knows as little as we do. And in this scene, Alejandro
8:37
wakes up in a panic, but we never specifically find out why.
8:40
But in the original screenplay, there was a nightmare sequence
8:43
where Alejandro was tied to a chair by his wrist while his
8:46
daughter was being put in a VAT of acid and his wife's head was
8:48
cut off. DMA, Yeah.
8:50
Yeah, I mean, if you listen closely, you can hear the
8:52
screams of his wife and daughter underneath the sound of the
8:55
engines of the plane, which I didn't really notice until maybe
8:58
4th of it. It's very, very subtle, but it's
9:00
there. Brilliant.
9:01
It is. So pleased they didn't have
9:02
that, though. I love the ambiguity of it all,
9:04
the mystery of it. It's.
9:05
Better left unsaid or unseen that.
9:07
Definitely, yeah. That sounds like a soul film or
9:10
something that's too much too gross.
9:12
Yeah, but I mean, the way you would have done it, I don't
9:15
know. I have absolutely no idea what
9:16
that would have looked like. I think that the way that Taylor
9:18
Sheridan wrote it though, would have been a little bit too on
9:21
the nose. It would have been very, very
9:23
much, yeah, very graphic. Yeah, when Alejandro wakes up, I
9:27
love that he composes himself. Kate says, are you all right?
9:30
And he takes a moment. He goes, yeah, fine.
9:33
Yeah, just completely unflappable.
9:35
Yeah. When Kate asks if there's
9:39
anything she should know, you're quote at the top.
9:41
Westie, I on this is you're asking me how a watch works?
9:44
For now, just let's keep an eye on the time.
9:46
Yeah, it's a great line. It could have been a little bit
9:48
cheesy had it not been for the tone that Phil Nerve brings to
9:53
the whole film, because there's a couple of lines like that.
9:55
I think, well, that's really good, but it could have been
9:57
judged very badly. It could have been.
9:59
It could have backfired. And when he says that to Kate,
10:01
she's completely incredulous. She just looks at him in silence
10:04
for a while and it's almost laughable how much little
10:07
information she's she's being given.
10:08
She's like, really? OK.
10:12
Yeah, and this is what we're going to expect for that,
10:14
Alejandro, For the rest of the film, you don't say much, but
10:17
what he does say absolute zingers, every one of them.
10:21
Fantastic. So it's just immediate unease
10:24
from the opening sequence. Something doesn't quite feel
10:27
right and like it. We're completely in the dark.
10:33
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
10:37
So with Henry nowhere to be found, Indian Marcus hop on a
10:40
flight to Venice. How will they recognize this
10:42
Doctor Schneider when they see it, Westie?
10:44
Well, I mean, I recognized her straight away, and I still do to
10:48
this very day. When I was a child, Marion was
10:50
straight out the window. Forget about her.
10:52
This is the new kid on the block, Willy.
10:54
Nah. Not bothered, Elsa.
10:56
Yeah, we're going now. We're talking fantastic
10:59
performance from Alison Duty as well, very, very young when she
11:01
took this role and I think she just absolutely shines in it.
11:05
Just great. Loads of twists and turns of her
11:06
character and she nails every single one of them.
11:08
I think just keeps you on your toes constantly.
11:10
And it's great how this talks back to the classroom sequence
11:12
of 70% of archaeology is research and sort of the library
11:15
and ex never marks a spot and it's not exciting.
11:17
He's trying to convince his students the way he does or
11:20
archaeology itself isn't exciting.
11:21
Whereas us and audience kind of go, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it is
11:25
fine. And she says, you know, I'm
11:27
going to arrange for them to stay a little bit open a little
11:29
bit longer. That's going to close in a
11:30
moment. I'll.
11:31
Be like oh wow. She's just got authority.
11:33
Here she's just. Perfect.
11:34
I just wouldn't have even bothered looking for the X
11:37
Marxer spot. I would just be like, you want
11:38
to just go and get a coffee and Marcus can go and have a look
11:41
for something. I'll just, you know, let's just
11:42
let's explore this relationship as opposed to the, you know, the
11:45
grail thing. Let's know each.
11:47
Other for two minutes. Yeah, you do.
11:49
Right then, you know, you know, all right.
11:53
But yeah, it's just wonderful. X never marks a spot, and then
11:56
it does. And he's on top of the ladders
11:57
and he points down. He can't even believe it. 10.
12:00
What Spielberg does here, he cross cuts this with probably
12:03
one of the funniest bits in the whole film of that librarian
12:06
stamp in the book and that timing.
12:09
It's so, so brilliant. It's it's almost like just
12:12
really classic first book of like visual sound, humour, cross
12:16
cutting film. And it's just that stamp and a
12:20
bang. And then, you know, Ford's
12:21
looking around and this guy's got no idea.
12:24
And it's like back don't. It's just the noise of it's
12:26
funny. It should even reverbs through
12:29
the library just be really. Threatening, but it's like
12:31
metallic and it's rock and it's perfect and it makes perfect
12:34
sense and it's just the way he kind of leaves it on top of the
12:36
little just. Like, I'm just going to leave
12:39
that there, yeah. I think I've had enough today.
12:42
Yeah, I feel like that the only most work days.
12:44
Yeah. And they're going at the
12:46
Catacombs, which is wonderful. There's a throwback here to
12:48
Raiders, which I always love because it's that little subtle
12:50
tint in the score. And he's like, it's the, it's
12:53
the Art of Covenant. You sure?
12:54
Pretty sure just he doesn't look at it for too long because he
12:57
knows you can't look at the arc for too long at the end of
13:00
Raiders. And I love that as well.
13:01
And he just kind of moves past it.
13:02
I've got a little bit of a problem with this petrol that
13:05
The Walking through I always have and he just thinks it's a
13:09
really good idea. A light, a massive torch, like
13:11
if he drops that, we're in serious trouble.
13:13
So just just keep a hold of that, Don't drop it.
13:17
Just feel on edge because one, just one match and then you're
13:20
just the fire sweeping through. The noise of that sweeping
13:23
through the sound designs incredible underneath and say,
13:26
how does that work? Why doesn't fire get underneath
13:28
that? Didn't care.
13:29
It would be really hot for a start.
13:31
I don't care. And it's like, right, I found a
13:33
way out, I'm going to open my eyes and petrol water.
13:36
That's fine. No problem with that straight
13:38
out. And then the day and it just got
13:40
that great line again. Ah, Venice.
13:42
And then we're into another chase.
13:45
We're into another set piece. It just doesn't stop.
13:46
It's just fantastic for even the smaller bits.
13:49
There's humor, there's character development, there's great
13:52
dialogue, there's great callbacks, and then you're into
13:54
an action set piece and it's just one of the other all the
13:56
way through the film. Fantastic.
13:57
For a thing, it's just got everything.
13:59
Yeah, and those rats in the tunnels, they were bad,
14:01
especially for the film. And Spielberg went to the same
14:03
place he did for all the rodents and the creepy crawlies he
14:06
needed for the first two indie films.
14:08
They did go a bit OTT and actually bred 5000 for him, but
14:11
he did only need 2000 of those and the only stipulation he had
14:15
was that they had to be disease free because standard rats are
14:18
just riddled with diseases. Discussing.
14:20
Yeah, DME rats I'm not that bothered about, but they really
14:24
creep me out because you can feel them, then you know that
14:27
they are real, real creatures. Yeah, when it's Nelsa's hair,
14:29
Yeah. Oh God.
14:30
Oh. Yeah, it's when they're crawling
14:32
all over each other and it's like that massive.
14:34
It's horrible. There's a one that he steps on
14:36
as well but doesn't put all of his full weight on.
14:38
And he starts to like lift his foot up.
14:40
It's great. And those rats were substituted
14:43
for mechanical rats when the fire whips through the tunnels.
14:45
Yeah, nice. So there were no rats hurt
14:48
during production of this film. You'd see because they're not
14:50
not moving, they're not moving at all.
14:52
Yeah, and like you said, Westie, following the subterranean
14:56
chase, Indian Elsa make it above ground are Venice, and they make
14:59
a run for it. And this sees the nearest
15:01
speedboat that can find to make their getaway.
15:03
You know, we've all been in a situation like this before.
15:05
Yeah. Yeah.
15:06
Yeah, it's very dawn again. Yeah.
15:08
Yeah, it's. Exactly the same, isn't it?
15:11
Yeah, it's what also than Julie Christie were doing.
15:16
Imagine like 10 midgets just running out of there diving on
15:18
speedboats. In red Max.
15:21
In red Max yeah, get the fuck out of here.
15:25
Well, this set piece is just a great companion to the tunnel
15:27
sequence. The pace is ramped.
15:29
Open, open, open, accompanied by some wonderful music by John
15:33
Williams. Yeah, Indian.
15:35
A fist fight on the back of a speed board on the Grand Canal
15:37
in Venice with a guy brandish and a gun.
15:39
Seems like all times. Yeah, doesn't get wonderful.
15:42
Yeah. And then the head honcho called
15:44
Kazim jumps on the board and absolutely means business.
15:48
And this is the set pieces. Great moment when it looks like
15:51
the board has been swallowed up by the propeller.
15:53
It's getting closer and closer and I love that moment where the
15:56
wood panel and roof catches and goes flying up in the air flips,
16:00
Yeah. Really gives a sense of danger
16:02
that and. That's really Harrison Ford
16:04
isn't. It it is really Harrison Ford,
16:05
Yeah. That's pretty close.
16:07
Even from that lens, that's pretty close.
16:08
But Spielberg loves a perilous propeller.
16:11
You know what in Raiders? Love the guy getting hung in
16:13
Temple of Doom and now this. Yeah, it's great.
16:15
And. In this scene, the two boats
16:16
that Elsa drives in between were cable together to keep things
16:19
safe. So a speedboat full of dummies
16:22
was launched from a platform in the water between the two ships,
16:25
which is masked by the explosion.
16:26
But they had to do the sun twice because the first one wasn't
16:29
picked up effectively by the camera.
16:30
All right. It's really cut well to
16:32
emphasize the explosion. Yeah, and the noise of them just
16:36
scraping out of there as well is.
16:37
Great. Yeah, I love that Go.
16:40
Between them. Are you crazy?
16:41
Go between. Them, Alison Duty said in
16:45
Venice. No one told me how to drive the
16:46
boat. I had to go at speed towards
16:48
another boat with a camera on it, and behind the camera were
16:50
Stephen and the big honchos from the studio, then George Lucas
16:54
and Frank Marshall all on the same boat.
16:56
I was supposed to get a signal to via left, but I left it a bit
16:59
late and I could see them all panicking now.
17:02
Probably could have gotten away with taking Lucas out to be
17:04
honest. Yeah.
17:05
Yeah. Yeah, and camera trickery was
17:07
used in this scene to make the action look a lot more dangerous
17:10
than it actually was. They made the board extra long
17:13
to keep a minimum safe distance between the actors and the
17:15
propellers. Yeah, and it's shot us at a
17:18
specific angle to make them appear closer to the blades and
17:21
really scans on screen. It really works.
17:24
Fantastic Cable Malik and plays a part of Kazim in this scene.
17:27
A member of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword.
17:29
Oh yeah, Spielberg saw him in Midnight Express and really
17:32
liked his performance. Now, if you're going to keep
17:33
that light after Temple of Doom, don't cast anybody out of
17:36
midnight. Malachian might have worked with
17:40
Spielberg earlier. If Fiat hadn't intervened.
17:42
He would have auditioned for the part of Salah in Raiders book or
17:46
the traffic jam. So he missed his window.
17:48
Oh wow, I think he would have been good.
17:50
Yeah, he would have. Loved John Reese Davies but he's
17:52
really really good. Myself is prepared.
17:54
How's yours? How's yours?
17:56
Great, Great. And on this Brotherhood of the
17:58
Cruciform Sword, Who the fuck are these guys?
18:01
I don't know. Great though.
18:05
These are keepers of the grail who will kill to protect it.
18:07
But just why? There's too many questions.
18:10
But I mean, they're full blooded in their beliefs.
18:13
How aggressive are they? Machine guns.
18:15
That's an aggressive move. It really is.
18:17
It's too aggressive. You're going to protect the
18:19
grail, right? Let's.
18:20
Do you want to be inconspicuous? That's probably a good idea.
18:22
I'll just brand this on my chest and wear feathers around Vin.
18:25
Yeah. The Brotherhood of Tommy Cooper.
18:31
How do you get the grill just like that?
18:37
It's the best thing you've ever said.
18:39
That's the greatest thing ever.
19:02
Well done. Yeah.
19:05
These guys, I mean, they're so protective, but they're just so
19:08
cavalier that they'll incinerate everything in the catacombs
19:11
under the library. Yeah, surely that lawn.
19:13
Do you just burn the whole building and ruin everything
19:16
that is sacred underneath it? What are they playing at?
19:19
Really immature. You can't have it, but burn it,
19:23
yeah. So after this to get the
19:26
location of any from Kazaim and that's when Indian Elsa get to
19:30
that castle. And it's all about payoff at
19:31
this point because Henrys being built up so much so far in this
19:35
film, like he can't disappoint when you first made him.
19:37
And I do feel that this part of the film, it just needs
19:40
something extra because it's been incredibly entertained.
19:44
But so far, it's just been now, this is kind of just the way
19:46
this plot points really. Again, isn't, you know, this
19:48
clue, this clue, he meets the woman and now they're going on.
19:51
So they need something different here.
19:52
So Henry's appearance comes to the perfect time and not
19:55
chemistry between Ford and Connery.
19:57
It's instantaneous. And it takes a hell of a
20:00
performance to make Harrison Ford in the 80s in this role,
20:04
make them to seem immediately bumbling in the net.
20:07
And that's exactly what Connery does.
20:10
I mean the first. Into play between them, Junior.
20:14
Yes Sir. Like Ford immediately, just
20:16
because his little kid. He comes to the ball so.
20:18
Nervous. Stands to attention.
20:20
Stands to attention and it's so well written because Henry's
20:24
priority. He's hit in the over the head
20:27
with his fast but his priority is clear by the fact he's
20:29
completely ignored. What Indy saying about his head
20:31
being OK. He's I've never forgiven myself.
20:34
He's not talking about the head, just focusing on the Ross.
20:37
Thank God it's a fake. I mean, it just tells you
20:40
everything you need to know about them and these two
20:42
together with that writing, the comic moments just pop off the
20:45
screen one after another. The Nazis come in.
20:48
Doctor Jones. Yes, in perfect Amazing Henry's
20:52
whole speech about his son not being that stupid to bring the
20:55
diary along with them. Contrasted to the facial
20:58
expression you get from Harrison Ford here.
21:00
Like, sorry, like. You have the diary in your
21:05
pocket. I should have mailed it to the
21:08
market. That line, that line's
21:11
magnificent, and it's just incredible how immediately
21:15
convincing they are as father and son and how quickly you
21:17
understand that relationship. The whole thing is hilarious and
21:20
it ends on such a great note when in the grabs the gun kills
21:23
the Nazis and Henry said gas at it.
21:27
What you did, you did. He's not what he expected his
21:32
dad to be like at all. It's wonderful.
21:34
What I love about the scene as well is that Indie has got scant
21:37
regard for safety or cunning or anything like that.
21:40
He's just bundles into this castle, tells some cock and bowl
21:44
story about being a Scottish Lord Mickey Mouse.
21:48
How? Dare you?
21:51
So he lies about this story about being a Scottish Lord.
21:54
He whacks the guy out to bust through windows.
21:56
How on earth did he think he was going to get away with it
21:59
without being caught? Immediately the guy in the door
22:02
needs to just wake up and raise the yellow in the castle.
22:05
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah.
22:08
There's great foreshadowing in this scene as well when he spots
22:10
the fake, which is how they did, yes.
22:12
So what the grail is at the end, you kind of spot the fake one,
22:14
but also he spots out Elsa as a fake.
22:16
And the moment when Henry says she talks in asleep about Elsa
22:19
was completely unscripted. And when he said the line
22:22
filming had to stop because everyone was rolling around on
22:24
the floor laughing, Spielberg even conceded right there and
22:27
then that line was definitely going to make the final cut out.
22:29
Of course. See why it's amazing?
22:31
Yeah, and that scene is amazing. The camera does this massive
22:34
zoom into Indies face. It sweeps into her Indies face,
22:37
he says. How do you know she was a Nazi?
22:38
Talks in asleep and Spielberg leaves so much room for silent
22:42
reaction and you can kind of tell that it was an ad Lib
22:45
considering Ford's face and Connery's just a little smirk
22:49
that he's trying to stifle. Yeah, it cuts there, doesn't it?
22:51
Cuts it off to a separate angle. Yeah, it's great.
22:54
It's wonderful. OK, what an opening.
22:56
We're on a rescue mission. But in classic indie style, he's
22:59
found himself at gunpoint immediately.
23:05
Arrival. The director of Arrival, as we
23:10
mentioned, was Denis Villeneuve, a Canadian filmmaker whose
23:13
directorial debut came with 1998 drama August the 32nd on Earth.
23:19
Arrival, with his eighth feature film overall, his fourth in
23:22
Hollywood after A Prisoner's Enemy and Sicario, and his first
23:25
foray, but definitely not last, into science fiction.
23:28
Yeah, Denis Dinamat. How was his work on Arrival as
23:32
director? Very reminiscent to me of Ridley
23:35
Scott. I mean him in general, but
23:37
particularly this one, Paul from Blade Runner.
23:39
I think this is the most Ridley Scott esque film he's made
23:42
because it's visually stunning. There's an epic scale to where
23:45
that feels this very second age to him.
23:47
You get the sense that he isn't put off at all by how big this
23:51
film gets or how big any of his films get really.
23:53
And like Ridley Scott, what I think Feeling Love does really
23:56
well is he makes his films a huge canvas for everyone to come
24:00
and do their best works. Or the soundtrack, the effects
24:02
of the cinematography that act in Feeling of has that ability
24:06
to harness the best people around him and make everything
24:09
coherent to what he wants. And he builds worlds really
24:13
effectively, and he builds a human world and an alien world
24:16
here. But as with Ridley Scott, I
24:17
think that there's a bit of a weakness there as well.
24:19
I don't think he's the most natural of storytellers.
24:23
I think there's a couple of moments here that are a bit
24:26
muddled in their execution. They're a bit contrived, like
24:29
the group of soldiers who go rogue just to advance the narrow
24:32
of the thing. That's a bit bumpy.
24:34
And I think he always seems to have this removed to his films,
24:37
which means it's hard to get a lot of emotion from him.
24:39
I think he's quite a cold film maker.
24:41
So his work here encapsulates both his best qualities, but his
24:45
flaws at the same time as well. Yeah, that's only with the Naval
24:48
Nerve, where we said that he's wanting to make a science
24:50
fiction film since he was 10 years old.
24:53
So bit of a surprise that he took eight films to get there.
24:55
But he's made-up for it now, hasn't he?
24:58
That's indeed, yeah. I think one of his biggest
24:59
strengths as a science fiction director is that background in
25:02
drama. This feels like a fresh take on
25:04
the first contract subgenre and as a piece of film making like
25:08
art. A rival stands alone in that
25:10
subgenre for me. I'm obviously a fan of Your
25:13
Nerve when you see behind the scenes footage from his films
25:15
and arrivals no different. He seems to always have a very
25:18
calm, serene set and that shows on the screen.
25:21
It's directed this with a very light touch I think, and I would
25:25
say maybe because of that. I agree Matt.
25:27
I'll find him slightly cold as a storyteller.
25:29
He's not a filmmaker whose movies have a lot of heart or
25:32
feeling for me sometimes. But I think he does have a lot
25:35
of soul like James Brown. Yeah.
25:37
His films always have meaning, and his mastery of the craft is
25:40
just world class. And that said, I would say A
25:43
Rival is definitely his warmest film.
25:44
I think obviously the subject matter of the mother daughter
25:47
Bond helps. Amy Adams helps, and we'll talk
25:49
about her shortly. But I think in any science
25:51
fiction film, that balance of the cold, hard science and the
25:54
warmth of feeling is one that film makers don't always get
25:57
right. But here Feeling Live nails it,
25:59
and he's changed that balance from how he is in the book.
26:01
So that's impressive. I think there's a piece of film
26:03
making. Arrival is an art to say his
26:05
best, and there's a piece of storytelling.
26:07
It makes you think and it makes you feel, as the best science
26:10
fiction usually does. Whether it's, you know, his best
26:12
film would be a pretty lively debate, I think.
26:15
But this is definitely my favorite film is.
26:17
Right. Yeah.
26:18
I mean, it's definitely up there for me.
26:19
You guys have said it all. I mean, he is more of a
26:21
handshake than he is a cuddle, isn't he?
26:23
Yeah. That's kind of how I feel when I
26:25
see his films. It's he's very much like of that
26:28
ilk. It feels like a slow game of
26:30
chess and you know every move and you're watching it and
26:32
you're never bored by the game. It's subtly beautiful and it's
26:36
simplify and the complex. And he does that really well.
26:38
He does that with the June novels.
26:40
He makes June accessible. He made Blade Runner, you know,
26:42
he made that sequel. I don't think anyone else could
26:44
have and he's not afraid of that pace.
26:46
He's not afraid of that slow pace and taking his time and
26:50
just fixating on certain things. He does have, I would say 70%
26:55
more interest in the visuals than he does in anything else
26:58
because the visuals will tell the story.
26:59
I think his dialogue is always secondary I think in all of his
27:02
films and everything does have a science fiction feel to it.
27:05
I know you said there, John, it took him 8 films to get there,
27:08
but Enemy for me feels very science fiction.
27:10
But for me, it's just a joy to watch somebody who's just so in
27:13
charge of the craft. And you can tell again that you
27:16
guys have said that everybody on this film is in the same
27:19
bracket. Nobody is is lower down.
27:22
Cinematography is up there with score, with sound design, with
27:25
production design, with art. Everything is just given the
27:27
same amount of respect. I think that's what I get from
27:30
Avila new film is he respects every single element that goes
27:33
into these films and that's what makes his film so satisfying, so
27:37
compelling and so perfectly judged.
27:40
I think sometimes and really well polished, it might be cold,
27:43
but I think it needs somebody who's had who has that coldness
27:46
to go, this is what I'm talking about and take your kind of the
27:49
emotion out of it a little bit. So he's getting the point across
27:52
of like, look, live your best life.
27:54
You haven't got a lot of time. This is what I'm trying to tell
27:56
you. And he's like your dad sitting
27:58
you down, not giving you a cuddle, but giving you a
27:59
lecture. And I think that's what you need
28:01
from this film. So the first person attached to
28:04
a rival is directly I wasn't an evil nerve.
28:06
Do you know who it was? Spielberg, George Lucas.
28:11
No one anywhere near that well known.
28:13
It was a film maker called Nick Matier.
28:15
Nick Matier, right? No one knew your name on me.
28:18
He was known mostly for commercials at the time,
28:20
apparently and diddly. I directed a Netflix science
28:23
fiction film called Spectral which is about invisible beings
28:26
killing people. OK, although still quite a
28:29
bizarre choice to get him in for a rival I think.
28:31
But Dan Levine and Dan Corn from 21 Laps Entertainment, they
28:35
wanted to adapt Story of Your Life and wanted being left as
28:38
director because they'd loved Incendies and had a meeting with
28:41
him. He talked about wanted to make a
28:43
science fiction film, so the centre of the novella and when
28:46
he liked it they sent Incendies to Ted Chang and said this is
28:49
the guy we want to adopt your book.
28:51
Yeah, Incendies is like a post war set film, but it's grounded,
28:55
it's artistic and the story's also nonlinear.
28:57
So they saw all that, I think. Yeah.
28:59
Yeah, wonderful film, that brilliant.
29:01
And Shang said that when he saw that, he realized that 21 Laps
29:04
wanted to do it properly, as he put it, and that was a key
29:07
reason he saw the rights to them.
29:08
I think if you're a sci-fi author and they send you in
29:10
Cindy's, you're going to be like, bloody hell, yeah.
29:12
Yeah, that'll do. Eric Heiser was involved in the
29:16
project before Vilniu had written drafts of the
29:18
screenplay. He said the first time he met
29:20
Vilni I was at a breakfast meeting where they talked about
29:22
philosophy, science and religion for two hours.
29:25
They did that every week and after about a month Vilni have
29:28
called Heiser and said to him I've just signed on and direct
29:31
the film and said now we are married.
29:35
I'm not sure that's how it works.
29:36
Didn't he, to be honest? It does for Vilniya think.
29:40
Yeah, and we'll tell her a case of our story shortly, but we'll
29:43
never said that. When he's making a film, he's a
29:45
screenwriter as best friend and also their worst enemy.
29:48
Yeah, which I think is probably kind of what you need to be.
29:51
I guess so, yeah. You don't take the easy way out.
29:53
You want to explore all avenues, which I would imagine he's very
29:55
thorough. Oh yeah, you can tell when you
29:57
watch the film. Yeah, definitely.
29:59
And we've talked about how Viola brings crew members from his
30:02
other films with him, and he did it on this as well.
30:04
And he'd worked with the costume designer Renee April three times
30:07
before as well, and he called her a master at creating
30:10
Character 3 uniforms. And it was her idea to dress
30:14
Louise more colorfully in the flash forward scenes and to
30:17
reflect Louise and Ian's arcs by having them go from wearing
30:19
civilian clothes to gradually wearing more militaristic
30:22
outfits. Yeah, I always noticed those
30:25
military boots Louis is wearing when she has the final
30:27
conversation with Costello on the ship.
30:29
Right. OK, pretty strike and that and
30:31
she's barefoot when my first year at the start.
30:33
So quite a big difference. Yeah, the main thing for me in
30:36
the costume design though, is those orange hazmat suits.
30:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The contrast between the bright
30:41
orange and the kind of black interiors on the alien ship,
30:44
that works brilliantly. Yeah, it does.
30:45
Really striking. And Villeneuve said that the
30:47
hazmat suits were the only time he asked for something to be
30:49
changed from how it is in reality.
30:51
He said normally the face of the person in the suit is mostly
30:53
covered, but he had the visor changed so we can see the actors
30:56
full faces and expressions. I think you have to do that,
30:59
surely? Didn't.
30:59
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
31:00
I think the orange as well reflects the flash forwards
31:03
where it's all warmer and they've got the glue of the
31:05
ships and it's like kind of almost predicting the future
31:07
that you have to wear this to get there.
31:08
I think that's a really good touch.
31:09
Yeah, definitely. And have has much suits ever
31:11
looked as good in a film? Nah, never.
31:14
No, maybe I'll break, but apart from that.
31:16
Yeah, yellow in that one, though I'll.
31:18
Be yellow. Yeah, I think so.
31:20
I can't remember. It might just be math study, I
31:21
don't know. Before signing off on Denial
31:25
Nerve, we have our first ATRM patron question.
31:28
Okay, there are many benefits of being an ATRM patron, so you
31:31
should definitely look into that if you've not yet.
31:34
And one of the most popular is the chance to ask those
31:36
questions that we will answer on the show.
31:38
So we have the first of those now and it is about Denial
31:41
Nerve. Lovely.
31:42
Cool. So Matthew Williams is here.
31:44
Hello, Matthew. Hello, Matthew.
31:45
Hello, Matthew. And he has asked, where do we
31:48
think the Neville Nerve sits as a director alongside all time
31:51
great science fiction directors like Christopher Nolan, Ridley
31:54
Scott, James Cameron and Stanley Kubrick?
31:57
So what do you think, Matt? You know that bit in Family Guy
32:01
when Peter Griffin's talking about The Godfather?
32:03
Yes, he insists upon itself. Itself, Yeah.
32:06
That's my general feeling towards feeling if he insists
32:08
upon himself a little bit. But in terms of sci-fi, I mean,
32:12
he makes big sci-fi films. Obviously they get people's
32:14
attention. My favorite veiler film is
32:16
actually Sakari. You're not one of the sci-fi
32:18
ones, right? But what I put him up with you,
32:20
the sci-fi grades. This is really good.
32:23
I agree with Wesley. No one else could have even
32:25
attempted to make a Blade, run a sequel and then pull it off with
32:28
as much applause as he did there.
32:30
But I'm in the minority when I said don't particularly care for
32:32
the Dune films that much, right? So I'm kind of split down the
32:35
middle on that. Not yet.
32:37
I wouldn't put them up there with the all time sci-fi great,
32:40
but I think he's definitely got the potential to get there.
32:43
Yeah, I mean, for me, when we're talking science fiction, the
32:45
navial nerve is already in the list of great directors.
32:48
For me, I mean Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, the Dune films, I'm
32:53
a fan of all of them. No one have brains, no one have
32:55
a soul like James Brown. They're all films that people be
32:58
watching, I think, after we're all gone.
33:00
So already a bit of a science fiction legend alongside Ridley
33:03
Scott, James Cameron and Christopher Nolan.
33:05
For me, outside science fiction, he does some great films, but
33:09
not enough to put him into the top tier, I don't think.
33:12
Not that he's not good enough. You just need more of them.
33:14
Yeah. Yeah.
33:14
I like to seem director Weston at some point.
33:16
Oh, yeah. So science fiction legend.
33:18
Absolutely. Like all genre legend.
33:21
Not yet, but I think he's got every chance.
33:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Wesley, where is veal nerves
33:26
place in the Hollywood Hall of Fame for you?
33:28
I think what you have to do is look at the other directors who
33:30
Matthews said here, there's Nolan, Scott, Cameron and
33:33
Kubrick. I think Nolan and Cameron are
33:34
right as they're inventors. They're world builders, veal
33:37
nerves, not in that camp. And I think he's far more subtle
33:40
than Ridley Scott and Stanley Kubrick.
33:42
I don't think he's got the bombast of them guys where you
33:44
just kind of who directed this and the reason for that and what
33:47
was said before. I think he's just more of a
33:49
collaborator than he is a standalone director.
33:52
I think he brings everybody in as a team and for that reason,
33:55
like you said there, John, people are going to be watching
33:57
this long after we're gone. So I don't think we're ready for
33:59
him yet, but the kids are going to love him.
34:02
For his work on Arrival, then Evie Live was nominated for Best
34:05
Director at the Oscars, and the film was nominated for Best
34:08
Picture. Do you remember the winners that
34:10
year? Matt well.
34:12
Yeah, this was the infamous. Was it Moonlight?
34:14
Was it La La Land? Which one won best play?
34:16
Yeah, so. Damien Chazelle, best director
34:20
for La La Land and best picture went to La La Land.
34:23
I mean Moonlight as if you live in a rival though.
34:27
No mix UPS. Yeah, and some great work from
34:29
him as director. Absolutely.
34:30
Definitely. Some of his best.
34:35
Mary Poppins. Robert Stevenson was a trusted
34:40
Disney figure at the time of Mary Poppins then, but the same
34:43
isn't necessarily true of his actors.
34:45
It's time for our three central players in the cast.
34:47
That's Dick Van Dyke as Chimney Sweet Bird, and David Tomlinson
34:50
is the uptight George Banks. Where should we start though, do
34:54
you think? Well, where do you think?
34:56
Yeah. So Julie Andrews plays Mary
34:58
Poppins, a magical nanny who blows in the Cherry Tree lane on
35:01
the east wind. The story follows Mary through
35:04
her arrival at the Banks household, who had ventures with
35:06
the children and birds, then departing after bringing the
35:09
family closer together. She's practically perfect in
35:12
every way. Apparently.
35:13
Westie, self praise, no prayers, but how was Julie Andrews
35:18
playing Mary Poppins? I mean, I've done very well up
35:21
to now. We're a little bit into the
35:22
podcast, right? And I haven't got into it, but
35:24
Oh my God, she is perfect in every way, isn't she?
35:28
She's fantastic. She's just an absolute dream.
35:31
She's just a vision on the screen.
35:33
No matter what outfit she's in, it works.
35:35
No matter what she's singing, no matter what a dialogue is, she's
35:39
just wonderful. She's absolute magic on the
35:42
screen. She's one of the best characters
35:43
realized by Julie Andrews. I'm confused about where Julie
35:47
Andrews starts and Mary Poppins starts and where she ends and
35:50
I've no idea. I literally have no idea.
35:52
She's personified this character to a Daniel Day Lewis standard
35:56
to a point where she's just disappeared into this character.
36:00
She just owns it. Absolutely owns the character.
36:03
It's believable jumping into which all painting is
36:06
believable. The cheese in that world don't
36:08
fall over and break the painting.
36:11
I believe that I buy the entire universe.
36:16
I buy it when she's got an animatronic Robin on her finger.
36:19
I buy it when she's talking to a parrot that's at the end of an
36:22
umbrella and she's hitting its little nose.
36:26
No, that should not work. That should transport you
36:28
somewhere else. But what she does, she just
36:31
wraps her arms around you, pulls you into this universe, and it's
36:35
just a hug from her and it's a safe place.
36:39
She's extraordinary in this film.
36:41
It's one of the best character players I think I've ever seen
36:44
from anybody. And she'll always be remembered
36:46
in this role. And she is like you said, but
36:49
that would sound cliche. But it is probably perfect in
36:52
every single way. Yeah, I think in the way that
36:55
she's written, Mary's very much static.
36:57
She doesn't have an arc. She changes everybody else
36:59
around her. It's like the classic Christ
37:01
like archetype. And short of the big JC himself,
37:04
I'm not sure there's a more famous version of that, that
37:07
Mary Poppins and Julie Andrews playing her.
37:09
It is one of the most famous character actor relationships
37:13
we've ever seen, I think. I mean, not an easy thing to
37:15
pull off, being both stern governess and charming
37:18
songstress at the same time, but Andrews does it without breaking
37:21
a sweat. She manages to be both strict
37:23
and a delight at the the same time, somehow.
37:25
Yeah, obviously our voice is stunning, but you can act as
37:28
well. There's one or two moments where
37:30
Mary's math does slip slightly, like at the end, you're seeing
37:32
Westy when she's talking to a pirate umbrella pal about the
37:35
children. You can see the emotion without
37:37
actually doing all that much. It's amazing.
37:39
And what's insane is that she was a Broadway star, Julie
37:42
Andrews, but she'd never been in a movie before.
37:45
This was her first role in a film.
37:47
Outrageous. If we could be abused, this has
37:49
got to be it, right? Yeah, yeah.
37:51
Surely it's got to be it. It's ridiculous.
37:54
Leading a Mass. It's a Disney production and she
37:55
basically turns up fully formed as if she's been doing it for
37:58
years. And eclipses everybody on the
38:00
production. Eclipses everybody.
38:02
Yeah, to say she carries the film.
38:03
She floats off with air in her bag.
38:04
Because she does with ease. An enormous talent, she is
38:08
Hollywood royalty basically nowadays, and that's mostly
38:10
because of two legendary performances, The Sound of Music
38:13
and Mary Poppins. Yeah, it's just hard to say
38:16
something about Julie Andrews in this that hasn't been said
38:19
before. But I think it's actually really
38:21
easy to underestimate what a massive challenge this was for
38:25
her. As we've said, it's her debut
38:26
performance. She's the lead in this massive
38:28
production. The film had huge expectations,
38:31
and if this fails, that's going to hang around her neck for the
38:34
rest of her career. Rightly or wrongly, Julie
38:37
Andrews couldn't put it on screen.
38:38
But she is just not perfect in this.
38:40
And as soon as you see, you just think this is iconic, this
38:43
character's iconic straight away.
38:45
That costume, the way she holds herself, you don't think for one
38:48
minute this is someone who's never, never set foot before
38:51
film camera before. Like it sounds strange to
38:54
describe it this way, but this performance is just fearless.
38:57
It is, yeah. No worries from her at all.
39:00
She has the feel of a veteran and she's only about 29, I think
39:04
when she makes this. 28 I think she might have been right. 2829
39:08
I mean. What were you doing at 29?
39:10
Nothing. Exactly not Mary Bobbins.
39:16
But she just has the aura of someone much older, much more
39:20
experience, and that makes it perfect for the role.
39:22
I mean, you talk about perfect custom choices and we all say
39:25
our Harrison Ford is Han Solo or Indy.
39:29
This Julie Andrews has been at the top of the list.
39:31
She can sing, she can dance. She was really funny as well.
39:35
It's just watching the birth of a *.
39:37
And hot as toast. Let's not skip around it.
39:39
I mean, yeah. Exactly trying to keep the tone.
39:43
Yeah, of course she is. I mean, it is not an impossible
39:45
to imagine anyone else playing her now, but Walt Disney
39:48
considered many names to play Mary Poppins before Julie
39:51
Andrews came along, right? Would you like to hear some?
39:53
That's cool for it, yeah. So Mary Martin was one of the
39:56
biggest Broadway stars at the time.
39:58
She was in talks at one point. OK, Also, fasten your seatbelts.
40:01
Betty Davis was discussed. Terrifying.
40:04
Barry Davis as. Well, as more Hollywood royalty
40:10
Elizabeth Taylor. Right.
40:11
Right. OK, yeah, and apparently Angela
40:14
Lansbury. Wow, okay.
40:17
Solving murders. The broomsticks or.
40:20
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she works the broomsticks.
40:22
I can see how that works. Yeah, yeah.
40:23
Fair enough, Mary, she wrote. Yeah.
40:27
But Julie Andrews, she had been performing on stage since she
40:30
was 13 and was a big name on Broadway already.
40:33
So at this time, she was appearing alongside Richard
40:35
Burton in Kamlot and they appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show
40:38
performing some of the songs. Richard Sherman saw that
40:41
performance and said he called his brother Robert immediately
40:44
and said, are you watching the Ed Sullivan Show?
40:46
And Robert replied, yes, she's perfect.
40:50
Yeah, apparently they went to see Walt Disney and his
40:53
assistant Tommy Will accepted them.
40:55
If you go in there saying this, Julie Andrews is perfect, you
40:57
won't like her. That's how he is.
40:59
You need to make him think that it's his idea, right?
41:01
So they arranged for Disney to go and see Camelot.
41:04
He met Julie Andrews backstage and basically offered her the
41:06
part there and then, apparently. All right, like talking to look
41:10
in it. Yeah, got absolutely played,
41:14
doesn't it? But after all that, Julie
41:17
Andrews wasn't keen on accepting the part at first.
41:19
At the time she was pregnant but Disney said that's OK, we'll
41:22
wait. And also she knew that Warner
41:24
Brothers were in pre production on My Fair Lady.
41:27
She won a Tony Award for player Elisa Doolittle and one of the
41:29
player in the film. And Jack Warner thought she
41:31
wasn't a big enough star and cast Audrey Hepburn obviously.
41:34
So Andrews accepted Disney's offer.
41:37
Yeah, 100 and Disney begging cover for the rights, begging
41:40
Andrews to be in the film. Yeah.
41:42
But then apparently, when Julie Andrews won a Golden Globe for
41:44
Mary Poppins, she thanked Jack Warner in her acceptance.
41:48
Cheeky. Yeah.
41:49
Yeah. Do I have your pipe and smoke it
41:52
Jack? In The Sweet and the Deal even
41:55
more, Disney hired her husband, Tony Walton, to work on the film
41:58
as costume designer and set designer.
42:00
So he designed all of Mary's costumes, as well as the stripe
42:03
jacket that Bird wears in the animated sequences and the set
42:06
for Cherry Treat Lid. Great jacket that bird wears.
42:17
And apparently Disney also gave Julie Andrews and Tony Walton a
42:20
personal tour of Disneyland and told the animators on 101
42:24
Dalmatians, which was in production at the time.
42:26
They say designs of Anita on Julie Andrews, right?
42:29
There's a definite resemblance. There is, absolutely, yeah.
42:32
While the old fox Disney wasn't it, Yeah.
42:35
He knew how to do it. Yeah.
42:36
There was one more person that had to convince After she gave
42:39
birth to her daughter, Emma Andrews took a phone call from a
42:42
hospital bed from PL. Travers and Abdul was exhausted
42:45
and Trevor said, well come on girl, talk to me.
42:48
The smoke and Trevor's ended by saying you're far too pretty, of
42:50
course, but you do have the nose for it.
42:52
Imagine that you have the nose for it.
42:55
So you're in. Yeah, by the sounds of my PL.
42:57
travelers probably thought that was a nice thing to say.
42:59
And you? In production the cast and crew
43:03
was so blown away by Andrews that stories about her
43:05
performance started to circulate in Hollywood and the director
43:08
Robert Weiss visited the set to see her and then after watching
43:11
just a few minutes of footage he offered her the lead role in the
43:14
film. He was in pre production on The
43:16
Sound of Music. Right.
43:19
Pop was in The Sound of Music back-to-back.
43:21
Boom, boom. I always thought Sound of Music
43:23
was before this. Yeah, the year after she.
43:25
Just looked younger in that, yeah.
43:27
I bet Jack Warner was kicking himself a bit at that point if
43:29
he wanted to. Start and Julia Andrew said she
43:33
was a bit of a perfectionist on the film and when she recorded
43:36
Stay Awake she did nearly 50 takes before she was happy with
43:39
it. She later said it was too many.
43:41
Dick did some of his songs in one take.
43:44
Go on, Van Dyke. Of course he did.
43:46
I mean, yes. Yeah, I know.
43:48
We're not comparing apples with apples.
43:50
That's not you. Come on Andrew, who's Van Dyke
43:53
smashes out in 1 take. He's got a base from on his
43:57
back, I'm sure he can manage. Boy performance as Mary.
44:01
Julie Andrews won the Oscar for Best Actress on her film debut,
44:04
beating out Audrey Hepburn in My Fair Lady.
44:07
A bit of poetic justice there, maybe.
44:09
Yeah, there's a parallel universe where them roles are
44:11
swapped though. Yeah, I can see it.
44:12
I can totally see it. Definitely.
44:14
Yeah, yeah. So yes, a well deserved Oscar.
44:17
And by sounds of it, we think Julie Andrews is not practically
44:20
absolutely perfect as Mary Poppins.
44:22
Absolutely perfect. 100%, yeah. The lead male actor in the film
44:28
is Dick Van Dyke who plays Bert, A cheerful chimney sweep and St.
44:32
artist and one man band. We follow Bert as he joins
44:36
Mary's adventurers, jumping in the paintings and dancing across
44:38
rooftops, all while providing a musical narration to the
44:41
transformation of the Banks family.
44:44
A slightly controversial accent, Matt, But how's DVD Albert?
44:49
He's sensational. I mean, there's no other
44:52
performance in cinema like this. That's true enough.
44:56
But it is like. Sensation I like.
45:01
One of the fundamental aspects of any role, the accent is so
45:04
disastrously blad, but it doesn't matter.
45:06
It doesn't matter. It's so bad.
45:07
It's become part of the reason we love the character and the
45:10
performance so much. I mean, with AI these days, that
45:13
could easily go back into just that accent, I'm sure, but
45:16
there'd be riots in the street if that happened.
45:18
And I think with Van Dyke, you've got someone who had just
45:22
done it all by this point. He'd done radio, he'd done TV,
45:25
he'd done vaudeville and Broadway, and then he just makes
45:27
this step in the film effortlessly.
45:29
In fact, I think as an actor, he's probably really underrated
45:32
because of the nature of the films he's chosen.
45:34
And he doesn't get enough respect for what he could do
45:37
because he's just an absolute natural showman and everyone
45:41
loves him. And you watch him this and you
45:42
he realized why he's so funny. He's so lovable.
45:45
He's so full of enthusiasm for the material.
45:48
He nails the songs, He nails the dancers.
45:50
He nails the jokes. Love the guy.
45:52
And I just would not change that accent whatsoever.
45:55
Yeah. Where to start?
45:56
We're Dick Van Dyke. It's an outrageous performance
45:59
in many ways. First off, I know it's a
46:01
fantasy, but no Edwardian chimney sweep ever had teeth
46:04
that white. Surely gleaming gnashes for Van
46:08
Dyke. Unless their face was covered
46:11
with soot and it looked like I might be that.
46:15
And yes, the cottony accent we know.
46:17
Everyone knows it's not good. This is what you might call a
46:20
fortune. Vicious circumstance.
46:23
And his dance moves running on the spot every time.
46:26
That's it. But how great is he though?
46:29
But. He's great.
46:31
He's kind of the audience window into the world, the one that
46:33
would relate to the most, probably.
46:34
So we need to like him. And to say that the audience
46:36
likes Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins is an understatement.
46:39
Everyone loves him. How can you know?
46:41
He's so warm, so enthusiastic about everything, always got a
46:46
mischievous twinkle in his eye without ever being annoying
46:49
about. Was like with a screen presence
46:51
as he could get. I mean, in terms of musical
46:53
talent, Van Dyke should get blown away, like those nannies
46:56
sharing the screen with Andrews. But I don't think he does.
46:59
Just charm. A charming fella, a charming
47:01
performance. And I'm the same man.
47:03
I wouldn't change the accent for anything now.
47:05
It's all part of it. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree.
47:09
If you don't love Dick Van Dyke in general, why are you so
47:14
fucking miserable? Just just.
47:16
All right, Don't worry about it. He's so wonderful in this and so
47:20
warm and the bit that always gets me, you know, when the run
47:23
away from the bank and the run into him.
47:25
Oh, yeah. And the whole world's dark and
47:27
horrible and cold and nasty and the run into Bert, I always feel
47:31
like I could just cry because I'm just, this guy's going to
47:33
take care of you. But he knows everything.
47:36
He's got this wisdom about the life.
47:39
He's not ignorant. He's not stupid.
47:42
There's a real depth to this character, like he's been
47:44
through it. You feel like he's been through
47:45
things and he's just trying to make ends meet.
47:48
But he knows who Mary Poppins is.
47:50
There's one bit just before the whole color fragilistic
47:54
outburst, and she says there is one word and she turns to
47:57
Burton. He goes tell them what it is.
47:59
Yeah, he gives out the floor. Just that moment.
48:02
That is the character. He's just the best guy in the
48:05
world and if you're going to be, anybody would need to just make
48:10
T-shirts. It just says be more Bert and
48:12
we'll just sell them out. Because.
48:13
Let's do it. It's still timeless, it's still
48:16
there, it's still relevant. Just be a good person and just
48:19
look out for other people. He's just a wonderful,
48:22
wonderful, selfless, lovable character.
48:25
And I mean, the accent, I don't care.
48:28
He's invented a new one. So why?
48:33
There it is. Be like Bert.
48:34
Be more Bert and we'll get them on to show.
48:37
Yeah, there were loads of other acting names up for the part of
48:40
Bert. As you might imagine, Walt
48:41
Disney apparently considered Danny K, Fred Astaire, and Cory
48:44
Grant. Right.
48:47
Yeah, and PL. Travers wanted an all British
48:49
cast and she suggested Richard Burton, Alec Guinness, Laurence
48:52
Olivier, Peter O'Toole and Peter Sellers.
48:56
All. The Heller is on set.
48:59
I know anyone but Van Dyke. I'd rather be.
49:03
Exactly, Yeah. Well, Van Dyke himself, he said
49:06
many times he had no idea why he got the part and said actually
49:09
Jim Dale or Ron Moody would have been better cast than him.
49:12
But apparently Walt Disney had read an interview of that Van
49:15
Dyke had done in the early 60s where he said his dream job was
49:18
to work on a Disney film and that gave him the idea of
49:21
customers. Burt.
49:23
Right. Yeah, I know that he started.
49:24
That was a mime, Dick Van Dyke. But film wise, he'd only been in
49:27
Bye Bye Birdie and what a way to go at the time.
49:30
But he was well known from TV. He had the Dick Van Dyke show at
49:33
the time, Yeah. And he performed on Broadway as
49:35
well. So to be fair, he was a pretty
49:37
safe bet. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
49:39
Not 2 accents maybe. Maybe not, but as a supporting
49:42
actor in this role, he's perfect.
49:44
Son and Dad's man He's a. Brilliant support.
49:46
A brilliant support. Superb as well as good as you
49:48
can get, I think. Yeah, definitely.
49:49
Yeah. So here we go.
49:51
The elephant in the room, right. Van Dyke's accent in the film is
49:53
the most talked about accent in films.
49:56
In 2003 it is. In 2003 Empire magazine voted it
49:59
is the second worst movie accent ever, after, sorry, Matt Sean
50:04
Connery's Irish accent in The Untouchables.
50:07
You believe that? How do you feel now?
50:10
Better or worse? So Van Dyke has apologised for
50:15
it but said his Vogel coach Jay Pat O'Malley, had an even worse
50:19
Cockney accent. O'Malley thrown right under the
50:23
bus. Right under the bus, right under
50:25
the number 4, the King's Cross. I actually thought this is what
50:30
people in London sounded like, if I'm honest.
50:33
And then I went to London to sound nothing like this.
50:35
So it's good. If you grew up in the north of
50:36
England, this is a perfect accent.
50:39
Yeah, anyway, Except London, probably.
50:40
Love it. Yeah, it's great.
50:42
You just a view of the voices in the anime and sequence Pat or
50:45
Murray like the Master of Hounds and one of the pearly band
50:47
members that we'll talk about in a bit.
50:49
All right, OK. Yeah.
50:50
But after he was cast as Bird, Van Dyke also became interested
50:54
in playing the part of Mr. Dor Senior, the boss of Mr. Banks at
50:57
the bank. Disney wasn't keen on that idea,
51:00
so Van Dyke said he'd do it for free.
51:02
Disney still didn't want him, and said if Van Dyke made a
51:05
$4000 donation to Cal Art, Disney's art school, he could
51:09
play the part. And that works out at about
51:11
$30,000 in today's money. Give us some money to be in my
51:16
phone. He's already in there.
51:19
Desperate to play him. We'll talk a bit about Van Dyke
51:22
is Mr. Doors in a bit, but it's quite cool in the end credits
51:25
where it says Mr. Doors seniors played by NAV Kid Keed and then
51:28
the letters on scramble to say Dick Van Dyke.
51:30
Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
51:32
Dick Van Dyke wasn't nominated for any Oscars for his dual role
51:34
as Bert and Mr. Dole. Senior winner of best supporting
51:37
actor that year was Peter Ustinov for Tob.
51:39
Carper right Heist movie. I love his Nov.
51:42
OK, yeah, you're so. But despite the accent, we think
51:45
Dick Van Dyke's pretty special as Bert.
51:47
So he's wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful.
51:50
And when he was asked decades later how he wanted to be
51:52
remembered, Dick Van Dyke said easy for Mary Poppins.
51:56
Nice, of course. Yeah, why wouldn't you?
51:58
Yeah, I'd pay foreground to be in it as well.
52:03
Blue Velvet. Jeffrey can't keep himself away
52:08
from danger and is straight back to Dorothy's apartment, where he
52:11
takes a deeper plunge Into Darkness and he starts a
52:15
horrific series of events. Yep.
52:19
As soon as this scene opens in Dorothy's apartment, I always
52:22
let out this. I hope did it the last time I
52:24
watched this Groan of despair. Like, oh, no, because there's
52:27
just about to be some misery in there.
52:29
Yeah. Oh God, this is where Jeffrey
52:32
and Dorothy have sex for the first time.
52:34
They do the wild thing. Dorothy couldn't be any more
52:37
clear that this is a place where bad things happen.
52:40
She asks if he's a bad boy. Do you want bad things?
52:43
She's wearing a red dress, Alarm bells going off everywhere.
52:46
But this doesn't stop Jeffrey, who resists the first.
52:49
He doesn't want to hit Dorothy. Obviously.
52:51
This urge is a just a little too great to suppress.
52:54
The candlelight blows out heavy-handed from Lynch in the
52:58
visuals, and Geoffrey has crossed over into the dark
53:01
recesses of his psyche. He's now pursuing all the sexual
53:04
desires. He's been trying to keep it
53:06
bare. Dear me, yeah.
53:09
Lot to unpick. Yeah, the lot to unpick.
53:12
Does Dorothy crave the sexual violence because it's a link to
53:15
her family? Has Frank tapped into her
53:17
depraved sexual desires? Is this the only way that she's
53:20
able to survive her life day-to-day?
53:23
A lot of questions, no answers, and there's something
53:26
animalistic at the end of this scene.
53:28
Lynch moves to a slow mower, and the sound design is that of kind
53:32
of like a lion's roar almost, with an unearthly shriek.
53:36
And now there's no Turner back. Dorothy confirms that when she
53:39
says to you, you have your disease in me now, which is not
53:43
a pleasant term to hear. It's not great pillow talk.
53:46
It isn't sexy. That's not sexy.
53:49
In the aftermath, when Dorothy is protesting that she's not
53:52
crazy like when they're in the living room, she then follows
53:55
that up with I still have you inside me, Jeffrey, get out of
53:59
this situation. Get.
54:00
Out of it? Yeah, that's enough.
54:02
We're nowhere on a knife edge from scene to scene in this
54:04
film, and when he leaves and Frank turns up?
54:07
Terrifying. Wonderful.
54:09
The Heather's something magnetic about Frank.
54:11
Do you want to go for a ride? No, thanks.
54:13
No thanks. What does that mean?
54:15
I don't want to go. Go where?
54:17
For a ride. A ride?
54:19
Hell, that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, brilliant.
54:23
What does that mean? Yeah, you go for a joyride with
54:28
very little joy in it. There's no joy.
54:31
During the scenes where Kyle and Isabella are naked, they
54:33
questioned Lynch. Do I have to go that far?
54:36
And his reply was yes, yes. Of.
54:39
Course further if possible. Slowly no.
54:46
Wesley mentioned police squad earlier and the next scene
54:48
starts with a joke that could almost come from that.
54:51
When Frank goes this is it and then it cuts the place which is
54:54
called This is it Great it is. That could be from the naked.
54:59
Gun, it's great. But then that's the only bit of
55:02
light relief you get from this scene because one of the overall
55:06
feelings have with Blue Velvet and why it's so disturbing when
55:09
it's not actually that graphic, is it nails that feeling of
55:12
someone being in a situation or replaced.
55:15
This shouldn't be, but they can't escape from it.
55:18
It's that helplessness, isn't it?
55:19
It's the helplessness. Don't want to be there?
55:21
Don't. Want to be there?
55:22
You don't want to be in Dorothy's apartment.
55:24
But this entire section with Ben, and I mean, it's so weird
55:28
because actually very little happens in it, but all the same,
55:32
my skin crawls out the whole thing because it's the implicit
55:36
threat under the surface of what darkness is going to happen in
55:40
this scene. And you look at Ben and I've
55:42
already said, you know, the film.
55:43
I can't decide when it's set. I mean, what era has been fallen
55:46
out of without loungewear and cigarette holder?
55:50
Like, he certainly doesn't belong in the AD.
55:51
Certainly doesn't seem like he comes from the 50s even.
55:53
No, no. And it's just question after
55:55
question. Like who is he exactly?
55:57
Yeah. What's the deal with all the
55:59
overweight ladies hanging around with them?
56:01
Who's the guy eating the big bowl of?
56:03
I think it's pasta. Yeah.
56:05
These are the people keeping hold of Dorothy Soon.
56:07
Why? And it's a scene that just
56:09
exemplifies to me the dream logic I've been talking about.
56:11
Because nothing makes sense about this.
56:13
No, But at the same time, it's got its root in some kind of
56:17
reality. You know, the fact that the set
56:19
design is so symmetrical, but it's slightly off at the same
56:22
time because of the lightning that comes in the lamps and the
56:26
implicit threat that runs throughout this, the toss that
56:29
they make. The way that everything bends
56:31
says to Frank has done with such likeness is if he knows how
56:34
explosive Frank can be, but he also knows how to keep him under
56:37
control by amusing him, taught him like he's a child.
56:40
We'll have a beer with Frank the glasses.
56:43
And because Dorothy and Jeffrey is so out of place and they're
56:46
outnumbered, the whole scene just has this queasy feeling,
56:49
and it just sits in my stomach throughout.
56:52
And it's just summed up in that incredible moment where Ben uses
56:55
that lamp light to mine to end dreams.
56:57
Yeah. Why is the scene so disturbing?
57:00
Why is it even in there? Why is it in there?
57:03
Why does it happen? That's.
57:04
Why? Well, I know, but yeah, exactly.
57:06
We don't have the answers and we probably shouldn't mean why.
57:09
Does the song have that impact on Frank?
57:10
Did they do this on a regular basis whenever it comes around?
57:13
Because they've got a routine going, isn't it?
57:15
Yeah, but this is what we've seen under the grass at the
57:17
start of the film. Yeah.
57:18
Oh yeah, of course. Oh yeah, definitely.
57:20
This you know, the surfs are being pulled back now.
57:22
I mean, Brad Reef just dancing with a snake in the background.
57:24
Where do you get that from? You know it's.
57:26
It's. So it's just so weird.
57:28
Classic nightmare logic. It is.
57:30
It's absolute nightmare logic. I mean, this scene, it upsets
57:33
me, and it just serves me on a level where I've never been able
57:36
to quite work out why. This is the scene in the film
57:40
that most feels like a nightmare to me.
57:41
Like it's brilliant, but I just want to wake up and I just
57:44
wanted around. One of the most peculiar scenes
57:47
I've I've ever seen. I was just captivated when I
57:49
first saw it. Yeah, but I didn't understand
57:51
why. I still probably still don't.
57:53
But there's something like primarily seductive about the
57:56
whole thing. I don't.
57:57
I don't know why I'm attracted to this.
57:59
I don't know either, but yeah, it's true.
58:02
Weird. Lynch didn't go directly to Roy
58:05
Orbison for permission to use In Dreams.
58:07
Instead, he obtained license for the song by other means, just
58:10
went to the record company. So you can imagine Orbison
58:12
surprise when he sat down in a Malibu movie theater to watch
58:16
this new David Lynch Blue Velvet film.
58:18
Yeah, let's watch it. And on comes one of the most
58:21
revered songs in his back catalog, He said.
58:24
I was mortified because they were talking about the candy
58:27
colored clown in relation to a dope deal.
58:29
I thought, what in the world? Gentlemen, he is.
58:34
Yeah, the big. Orbison later said that he
58:38
watched the film again and appreciated what the song gave
58:41
to the film and vice versa. The use of the song in the film
58:43
is attributed to a resurgence in Orbison's popularity, leading to
58:46
a successful greatest hits package and him joining
58:49
supergroup at the Travelling Wilburys.
58:51
Strangely, this made his popularity saw, which is
58:55
unbelievable considering this Roy Orbison.
58:57
It's just a new demographic for the David Lynch mob.
59:06
Well, this scene is what Lynch called the eye of the duck
59:09
scene, IE the most important part of the film, Lynch said.
59:12
The key to the whole duck is the eye and where it is placed.
59:15
It's like a little jewel. If it's there, it's absolutely
59:18
beautiful. What do you mean, David?
59:20
I don't know what you mean. The fact that the club is called
59:23
This Is It, I guess, is the cherry on that kind of obvious
59:25
cake. This is the eye of the duck.
59:28
Yeah. The light that Stockwell uses as
59:30
a mic was not planned during rehearsals.
59:32
He picked up this construction work light and used it as a
59:35
stand in mic. Lynch loved it so much that he
59:38
kept the light and Stockwell mime and the song when he
59:40
originally was meant to sing it right.
59:43
Works. Much better that way.
59:44
It really does. It's much more sinister that
59:47
way. It is so sinister and I don't
59:49
know why. No.
59:51
On the way out of this is it it's one of the me favorite
59:55
transitions in cinema history. I think I'll fuck anything that
59:58
moves and then bang. It just disappears from the
1:00:01
frame. It's incredibly creepy and
1:00:05
really powerful and just put straight into the car and you're
1:00:09
like, what what is going on? Like the the the furious nature
1:00:13
of that disappearance of that cut is so lynching.
1:00:16
And then we're going to the car and then we'll see, you know,
1:00:18
the road and I'm thinking this is lost highway.
1:00:21
This is must be where he gets the idea of lost highway from
1:00:23
this. This iconography of just this
1:00:25
travelling to nothing, to darkness, that's where Jeffrey
1:00:28
is. He's in this hell, in that this
1:00:30
chariot, the hell with these horrible people.
1:00:32
And nobody respects his privacy. No one respects his place.
1:00:35
And he's just being exploited as a human being.
1:00:37
The pullover and then nothing. And then Frank just, you hear
1:00:40
the gas and then, oh, God, there's just that incredible
1:00:43
shot of the dead. Like, you know, yeah, you've got
1:00:46
Dorothy in the front, you've got Frank in the front, you've got
1:00:48
the other guy behind that shot. And it just turns around.
1:00:50
You've just that Freeman of that is just so imposing on the view
1:00:53
because you feel like you're in the back seat with him and he's
1:00:55
like, oh, and then there's the lever alone and he starts on and
1:00:58
it's just that's really weird. But watch, the guy behind
1:01:00
Isabella Rossellini just doesn't know what to do.
1:01:03
Yeah. Even he's like, am I in the
1:01:05
scene? I'm on the shot, Like what am I
1:01:07
doing? He looks terrified.
1:01:09
There's no ad Lib and whatsoever here because Hopper is just
1:01:12
gone. Yes, he's just doing his thing.
1:01:14
He snaps at this point. This is what he didn't do the
1:01:17
first time he saw Frank act against Dorothy.
1:01:19
Because he has more feelings for now.
1:01:21
He has more understanding of who this is and he's going to stand
1:01:23
up to this. It's evil and he just gets
1:01:24
punished for it. I love that fist just coming in
1:01:27
shot where he punches a man that's just wonderfully done
1:01:30
here. But Frank, the way he snaps
1:01:32
here, get him out the car, get him out the car, fuck, get him
1:01:34
out the car. And it's just like curious about
1:01:36
what's happened to him. He's like he's been touched,
1:01:38
he's been violated and then he chooses to violate Jeffrey and
1:01:42
just you're going to invade Myspace, I'm going to invade
1:01:44
yours. And he's just all pretty pretty
1:01:46
and he's just moved their lipstick on and then kissing
1:01:48
him. And it's just a complete
1:01:50
invasion of that privacy. And that emotion is disgusting.
1:01:53
So you've got people in these crew, especially that woman
1:01:55
who's gets on top of the car and starts to dance because she's
1:01:58
just reassuring Frank that everyone's in on this.
1:02:01
It's a good idea to feel this way.
1:02:03
We are into the song, we are into the emotion.
1:02:06
Dorothy isn't. She sat in the car that's going
1:02:07
leave him alone. What on earth is going on with
1:02:10
Brad Dourif again, amazed and casting when he's just stood
1:02:14
with that knife against his throat.
1:02:15
He is just completely committed to that, to that part, that
1:02:18
role. You would think he is in that
1:02:19
group. And it's just the way he's
1:02:22
quoting the lyrics and his speech about a love letter is a
1:02:26
bullet from a gun and it goes into your heart and you got a
1:02:28
love letter for me and you are done for.
1:02:30
And that is it. And he's using love as a weapon.
1:02:33
He's using emotion as a weapon, he's using happiness as a
1:02:36
weapon. And this person just couldn't
1:02:37
get any more despicable. And he does, and you're along
1:02:41
for the ride 100%. And then he just starts going
1:02:43
for him and starts beating up Jeffrey and starts breaking him
1:02:46
down. It's the worst possible
1:02:48
behaviour towards another human being, how you can belittle them
1:02:51
emotionally and then belittle them physically.
1:02:54
And that's what he does all the way through this film to
1:02:56
everybody and especially Jeffrey here.
1:02:58
It's really tough to watch, but it completely reinforces Frank's
1:03:01
character and makes you fucking terrified of him.
1:03:04
That's one of the most terrifying scenes in any film.
1:03:06
This even it just this stretch, Dorothy and Jeffrey psycho sex,
1:03:11
this is it. And then this scene, the
1:03:14
lipstick, the woman dancing on the huddle car, it's like Texas
1:03:16
Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, it's up there.
1:03:19
Yeah, just the weirdest fucking scene ever.
1:03:26
It's brilliant. So some of the most disturbing
1:03:29
scenes of the decade of any decade in a stretch, which is
1:03:33
strangely compelling. Yeah, very compelling.
1:03:35
Yeah, Toy Story. So the screenplay for Toy Story
1:03:44
was written by Joss Whedon, Andrew Stanton, Joel Corn, Not
1:03:47
That one, and Alex Socolor, with a story by credit going to John
1:03:52
Lasseter, Pete Doctor, Andrew Stanton and Joe Ranfs.
1:03:55
A collaborative effort. Lord of them.
1:03:57
Yeah. Yeah, massively.
1:03:58
So, Matt, what do you make of Whedon, Stanton Corn, Socolor,
1:04:02
Lasseter Dr., and Ranfs work in writing Toy Story?
1:04:05
Well, I'm glad you said it and I didn't have to.
1:04:07
That's going to save you go through them one by one, Matt
1:04:10
the. Thing about the writing for me,
1:04:14
and I'm sure Wesley will agree because we're both parents,
1:04:17
because when you're repaired, you sit through so many kids
1:04:19
films, yeah, great way to kill 90 minutes with them yeah.
1:04:23
And when you've seen lot, it really stands out how
1:04:25
predictable and obvious the writing is for a lot of them.
1:04:28
It's like, here we go. He's the big moral of the story,
1:04:31
the big speech at the end. This is the lesson that the need
1:04:33
take away be nice right around blah, blah, blah.
1:04:35
And that's all fine. But the flip side to that is
1:04:38
then you really appreciate something that is as well
1:04:41
written as this is for a kids animation.
1:04:43
Because yes, there are lessons need for kids to learn, but
1:04:46
they're never just hammered home like Woody's jealousy of Buzz
1:04:50
arriving on the scene. That will resonate with so many
1:04:52
kids who suddenly have to contend with a little brother or
1:04:55
sister who's came along. But that's never overtly on the
1:04:58
nose. It's never actually kind of put
1:05:00
into the script in a line, the jealousy, it just powers the
1:05:03
narrative instead. And you can tell they've gone
1:05:06
over and over and over this with a fine tooth comb in a writers
1:05:09
room, refining it to the NTH degree to the point where you
1:05:12
go, yes, the plot points are predictable to a certain degree.
1:05:16
Obviously Woody and Buzz are going to get over the
1:05:18
differences and become friends, but they're written with such
1:05:21
intelligence and such finesse and such a lack of talking down
1:05:24
to the audience. You don't care if it's
1:05:26
predictable because it just works superbly and every kid
1:05:29
will recognise something in this.
1:05:32
And having said that as well, I mean, Andy has got a new born
1:05:35
sister. She's just a toddler.
1:05:36
Yeah. And that's in there and that's
1:05:38
obviously he's been relegated to the back seat when the moving,
1:05:40
you know, you can see there's all these themes in there.
1:05:42
It's amazing. Yeah, yeah.
1:05:44
I mean Pixar CGI animation studio, obviously with a
1:05:47
reputation as being the best there is and the design and
1:05:50
animation work, it is world class.
1:05:52
But the thing that sets them apart from other great animation
1:05:55
studios, to me is the writing. That's where they're like a
1:05:58
class above, I think, and it was there from the start in Toy
1:06:01
Story. We talked about how they don't
1:06:03
shy away from some big themes a tackle jealousy, betrayal,
1:06:07
attempted murder, identity crisis.
1:06:09
Sounds mad, but that's all there.
1:06:12
The narrative, an outstanding buddy story, like we said, and
1:06:15
we've seen through great explorations of friendships in
1:06:17
movies, Stand by Me or Thelma and Louise or Shawshank, and I
1:06:20
think this is right up there with them.
1:06:23
I think where Pixar are like Master, right?
1:06:25
As though it's creating relatable characters in an
1:06:28
unrelatable world. Like I mentioned before, the
1:06:30
concept's great, obviously. I mean, the idea of toys coming
1:06:33
alive wasn't original. Babes in Toyland with Laurel and
1:06:37
Hardy, that was like 1934, so not original.
1:06:40
But Toy Stories now undoubtedly, I think the definitive version
1:06:44
of that idea. And they're not presented as
1:06:46
humans, the characters, they're presented as toys with the kind
1:06:49
of motivations and issues toys would have.
1:06:51
Their purpose is to be played with by a child.
1:06:54
That's their biggest joy. Their worries come from being
1:06:56
thrown away or lost. But Pixar relate all of it back
1:07:01
to being human, being alone or not, wanted or unpopular.
1:07:05
Those are all things that in a totally different way, we as
1:07:08
humans can totally relate to. Yeah.
1:07:10
I think it's just like, incredible writing, creating
1:07:12
humanity in non human characters.
1:07:14
It's something that picks our nail to the wall time and time
1:07:16
again. Yeah.
1:07:17
I think they teach children how to be good humans and adults for
1:07:20
that matter. Yeah.
1:07:21
While telling these exciting, funny tales.
1:07:23
They're among the greatest cinematic storytellers we've had
1:07:26
for me. Yeah.
1:07:27
And it all started here. I think Toy Story still among
1:07:29
their best pieces of writing. Yeah, I think there's so many
1:07:32
layers to this. Like I've said over and over
1:07:34
again, it appeals to so many people.
1:07:35
It appeals to everybody because you can find something that you
1:07:38
find familiar in this, if not everything for me really.
1:07:41
But it's how close this is to the story of, let's say,
1:07:44
Pinocchio. It's a toy that believes it's a
1:07:46
human, but nobody references that.
1:07:49
It seems to be so fresh and so new and so up to date that all
1:07:54
of its influences are there. And the very clear sea.
1:07:58
But the homages to this story, the kind of the building blocks
1:08:01
to this story. Everyone can get something from
1:08:04
this. There's the action set pieces.
1:08:06
There's the humor that's written into it that doesn't feel
1:08:08
crowbar in all the gags help move the story forward, help the
1:08:12
characters develop. Shows their immaturity, then
1:08:15
shows the maturity. All of the characters are
1:08:17
lovable and they're all stand out, but they all work together
1:08:20
and I think that's great writing as well.
1:08:22
It's very much like Cuckoo's Nest in that vibe.
1:08:25
Everyone's got a personality and everyone's stuck in the same
1:08:27
position, but everybody's different and that's really
1:08:30
clever. It's just really well handled,
1:08:33
really multi layered. And like what Matt said, we've
1:08:35
sit through so many of these kids films and it's such a joy
1:08:39
for us to see something that breaks that blueprint.
1:08:43
And it's also great for the kids because they don't expect it and
1:08:46
they don't see it coming, and they know it's different and
1:08:49
they know it's new and they know it's fresh, but they don't know
1:08:50
why. It's for us to figure out when
1:08:52
we're older. That's why I like this so much.
1:08:54
It's such an innovation in its technique, in its animation, but
1:08:58
also a real innovation in its writing.
1:09:01
Absolutely, yeah. The reason there was so many
1:09:03
credited writers on Toy Story is because of the Black Friday
1:09:06
incident that we mentioned earlier.
1:09:08
So the screenplay was originally written by Andrew Stanton based
1:09:11
on a story by him, Lassiter, Pete Doctor and Joe Ranft who
1:09:15
were all Pixar employees. But after Black Friday, Lassiter
1:09:19
decided they needed some experienced screenwriters.
1:09:21
So Joel Coen and Alex Sokolow were writing partnership and
1:09:25
they had sent a spec script to Disney called The Wooden
1:09:27
Policeman and based on that they were high to rewrite Toy Story.
1:09:31
Right. Yeah, The Wooden Policeman was
1:09:33
never developed into a film, but apparently the thing they've
1:09:36
grabbed Pixar's attention in the script was a scene in there when
1:09:39
a kid opens a Christmas present. He thinks it's a toy gun, but
1:09:42
it's real, and he accidentally kills his entire family.
1:09:45
Wow. What?
1:09:47
Get those guys in to write Woody and Buzz.
1:09:49
Yeah, that sounds about right, yeah.
1:09:51
I mean, that's really good. So Corn and Sokolow wrote about
1:09:56
6 trafts. They took it much closer to the
1:09:58
film we see now, and they're responsible for coming up with
1:10:01
Buzzers, Catch Face to Infinity and Beyond.
1:10:03
But Pixos still thought it was too dark.
1:10:05
Yeah, apparently in Corn and Sokolow's version, after I, Buzz
1:10:08
found out he wasn't a toy, he jumped off the balance.
1:10:10
And not to fly, but to try and kill himself.
1:10:13
Big grim. Wow.
1:10:16
To Infinity and beyond. Or do you know where they took
1:10:18
that from? That phrase.
1:10:19
Nope, I don't. So it's from the 3rd chapter of
1:10:22
2001, the Space Odyssey. That's called Jupiter and beyond
1:10:25
the Infinite. Right.
1:10:27
And it took it from there, yeah. I was so pleased that wasn't
1:10:30
more obvious. I was kick myself.
1:10:32
Never noticed. Yes, Chapter 3 to Infinity and
1:10:34
beyond. What?
1:10:37
It's a great catch phrase though, isn't it?
1:10:39
Yeah, it's brilliant. Yeah.
1:10:40
Oh, it's great, yeah. So Corn and Sokolow left the
1:10:43
project, and Pixar hired Joss Whedon, who had written Buffy
1:10:47
the Vampire Slayer, and he'd also done rewrites on Speed and
1:10:50
Waterworld. So he lightened the Torn, and he
1:10:52
came up with Rex the dinosaur. And he came up with what sounds
1:10:55
like a really good idea for the end of the film, which Pixar
1:10:57
wanted to do but couldn't. So stick around for that at the
1:11:01
end. OK.
1:11:01
But yeah, I think he's probably the most well known of the
1:11:03
writers. Joss Whedon went on to create
1:11:05
the Buffy TV show and he wrote and directed a couple of The
1:11:08
Avengers films later on. Yeah, that's right.
1:11:10
He did. Yeah.
1:11:11
The working title for Toy Story was Toy Story from the start,
1:11:13
but Leon Krich later said that there were 200 other titles
1:11:17
considered 200. Wow, that's a lot.
1:11:19
Wow, like I said, there's probably loads of these on the
1:11:22
shelf and they're just working through them.
1:11:24
The Cowboy and the Spaceman sounds like an Elton John song.
1:11:27
Great to Infinity and beyond. Made in Taiwan Bring me the arm
1:11:34
of Buzz Lightyear and Toys in the Hood is my favorite.
1:11:38
Toys in the hood, Yeah. I mean Toy Story, that surely
1:11:41
taken from Tokyo Story, the classic Japanese drama, I think.
1:11:44
Yeah. Maybe, yeah.
1:11:45
They made the right choice. I think Toy Story is a great
1:11:48
title, yeah. Joy story is bad, self
1:11:52
reasonable. And we've talked about the books
1:11:56
on Andy Shelf having inside references to Pixar, and there's
1:11:59
lots of others in the film. So Andy is named after Andreas
1:12:02
Van Damme, and he's an animation pioneer and he taught many of
1:12:06
the Pixar animators at Brown University.
1:12:09
Right. Yeah, no relation to Jean-Claude
1:12:11
Van I mean, presumably maybe there is, I don't know.
1:12:15
Hopefully not. And on the back of the Pizza
1:12:20
Planet truck, there's a sticker that says Krat FM, and this is
1:12:23
reference to TW Kratter who was a digital painter on the film.
1:12:28
Yeah, her job description was imperfectionist.
1:12:30
Apparently it was her job to make things look more realistic
1:12:33
by adding scuff Marks and scratches and like, dirt to
1:12:36
surfaces. Right?
1:12:37
Something that everybody else started doing.
1:12:39
Like straight away our. Best my dream job.
1:12:41
That nice. Sits backpack had a message
1:12:46
written on it. Julie Mcbaughle house cooties
1:12:48
and this is reference to Julia McDonald, a camera manager, and
1:12:52
she asked to be referenced in the film.
1:12:54
Yeah, presumably she asked for it to be done in a playful way.
1:12:57
Otherwise, Julia Mcbothell is a bit harsh.
1:13:00
We've got you in there. Look out for it.
1:13:02
And the Davis family cost license paid registration is
1:13:05
A113, and A113 was the number of her classroom at California
1:13:09
Institute of Arts. And that's where lots of Pixars
1:13:12
animators studied. That's in lots of films that
1:13:15
isn't it. There's loads of references to
1:13:16
that. It's in loads.
1:13:17
Yeah, John, last I studied there.
1:13:18
Yeah, you're right. You're Finding Nemo, Monsters
1:13:20
University, Wally. It's in loads of them.
1:13:22
Yeah. Yeah.
1:13:23
Yeah. And then lastly, the removal
1:13:25
company who helped the Davises move, they are called Egg Man
1:13:28
Movers and that's named after the art director Ralph
1:13:31
Eccleston. And the license plate of the
1:13:33
removal van is ML Y1K9 and that means Molly 1K9, a reference to
1:13:38
the Pixar office dog at the time.
1:13:40
Oh nice. And Molly's also the name of
1:13:42
Andy's sister, isn't it? It is, yeah.
1:13:44
So go work at Pixar. Not just a cool job, but they'll
1:13:47
probably put you in one of the films as well.
1:13:49
Yeah, yeah, I want to live with a musician.
1:13:54
For their work in writing Toy Story, Joss Whedon, Andrew
1:13:56
Stanton, Joel Corn and Alex Socalo were nominated for Best
1:13:59
Original Screenplay of the Academy Awards, the first
1:14:02
animated film to ever be nominated for that award.
1:14:04
Which is some going. Yeah, wow.
1:14:06
They lost out to Christopher Mcquarrie for the usual
1:14:09
suspects. Right.
1:14:10
Which right? Losing with style at least.
1:14:12
Yeah, fair enough. Yeah.
1:14:14
And for us, in creating the world, the characters, the
1:14:16
narrative of Toy Story, the screenplay here is pretty
1:14:19
timeless. Brilliant.
1:14:20
Yeah, it's incredible. Last but not least, in the crew
1:14:25
section, we are looking at the visuals of Toy Story, which, as
1:14:28
we've been saying, we're breaking new ground.
1:14:29
At the time, there was no director of photography as such,
1:14:32
with it being a new venture, but some key contributors were
1:14:36
lighting supervisor Sharon Callahan, supervising layout
1:14:38
artist Craig Goode and director John Lasseter overseeing
1:14:42
everything. Yeah, the visuals in Toy Story
1:14:44
USD. How does it all look for you?
1:14:46
I mean, it all looks great for me.
1:14:48
I think it's just has a really bold, really colorful, really
1:14:51
energetic look to it. It's really accessible.
1:14:54
I mean, there's some frames you look at this and go, Oh yeah,
1:14:57
Rex is a bit pixelated there or that desk doesn't look as good
1:15:00
as it should. But anyone who does that, it
1:15:03
would just be like, shut up, man.
1:15:06
There's no room for that. Because at the time it was
1:15:09
incredible. I saw this at the cinema and saw
1:15:11
nothing wrong with it in 1995. It was absolutely flawless.
1:15:16
It was so clean, it was so clear.
1:15:18
There was whip pans, there was crash zooms.
1:15:21
Everything felt very cinematic. And we grew up watching
1:15:25
cartoons. If you watch Tom and Jerry, they
1:15:27
run from left to right, right to left, and you go slightly there,
1:15:31
but you're never in the world. The background just repeats.
1:15:34
It's the running, Yeah. And you just, there's this need
1:15:36
to get it done quickly. There's no laziness to this.
1:15:39
Like everything in that frame is definitely there for a reason
1:15:42
because it has to fill that frame.
1:15:44
This is a lesson in miss on scent is like, if you're going
1:15:47
to put something in front of the camera or behind the camera, it
1:15:49
needs to be there for absolute reason.
1:15:52
But they didn't overuse that. They didn't fill it with things.
1:15:55
The backgrounds work really well, but it has its own look.
1:15:59
And I'm always baffled looking back at this, that it wasn't
1:16:02
done with the mix of live action because we've got who friend
1:16:05
Roger Rabbit, you know, Stuart Little came out in 99.
1:16:09
This could have been Stuart Little where you've got live
1:16:11
action and then the toys are basically Stuart Little running
1:16:13
around doing stuff. I'm amazed that that didn't
1:16:16
happen and they just went, no, we are creating a whole world.
1:16:20
Like we've said, we're going to probably say this about
1:16:22
everything when it comes to the crew and when it comes to the
1:16:24
execution is that everyone's created something water tight
1:16:28
and the visuals needed to be as good as everything else.
1:16:32
But I think everything stepped up because the visuals are so
1:16:35
good. Yeah, I mean, the visuals of the
1:16:37
time 1995 there were groundbreaking.
1:16:39
Like we've been seeing the first fully CGI animated feature film.
1:16:43
That's significant itself, but it's not just that no one did it
1:16:46
before. That makes it special.
1:16:47
I don't think it's that it's still kind of sets the standard.
1:16:50
I mean, the animations evolved obviously with technology over
1:16:53
the years, but in terms of just CGI animated storytelling, the
1:16:57
Toy Story IP is still the benchmark.
1:16:59
It is. One of the best decisions I
1:17:01
think they made early on is that at the time, lots of CGI
1:17:04
animators, like you said, Westie, they were using CGI to
1:17:06
create things that looked real, like ILM used it.
1:17:09
And Jurassic Park Terminator 2. Pixar didn't go that route.
1:17:12
They leaned into making it look like an animation with the
1:17:15
tropes and the rules and the limits that come with that and
1:17:18
then work kind of towards realism from there that were
1:17:20
sensible with how far they aimed.
1:17:22
And that just made it look kind of like light years ahead of its
1:17:25
competitors. Yeah.
1:17:26
Nice. What are you?
1:17:27
And Buzz don't look real necessarily, but they still
1:17:29
didn't look like anything we'd seen before.
1:17:31
Yeah. Yeah.
1:17:32
And it picks out understanding of animation and visual
1:17:34
storytelling just shines. I said Sharon Callahan was
1:17:37
lighting supervisor. What?
1:17:39
She overseas is incredible. The texture and the depth on the
1:17:42
images is like nothing we'd seen.
1:17:44
He just couldn't really do that to that level than hand roll
1:17:46
animation. Yeah.
1:17:47
And lighting can convey emotion, can't it?
1:17:49
As we often talk about, No. Absolutely.
1:17:50
Yeah. Pixar tapped right into that
1:17:52
from the start. Yeah.
1:17:53
Some of the visuals still blow me away.
1:17:55
I mentioned the shot when Buzz first arrives on the bed.
1:17:57
And also in that scene we get that Buzz POV looking out from
1:18:00
inside his helmet. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
1:18:03
It's amazing. There seems to be no sign of
1:18:04
intelligent life anyway. Hello.
1:18:08
It's just the sound of the breathing as well.
1:18:10
Yeah, it's great. But I think it's the contrast
1:18:12
ratios that they're really taking on board, and it looks
1:18:14
like real life because you've got shadow in there that we've
1:18:17
talked about. When Andy's holding up buzz and
1:18:18
there's a silhouette, it's not a pure black silhouette.
1:18:21
Yeah, yeah. You still see some detail in
1:18:23
there, so it looks realistic. So there's them contrast ratios
1:18:26
that really work. Absolutely, Yeah.
1:18:28
I mean, the technology did obviously advance a lot in the
1:18:30
years and the decades after Toy Story, Yeah.
1:18:32
But I think that visual language, they established the
1:18:34
kind of exaggerated cartoons with realistic elements like the
1:18:38
shadows and the lighting, but defined pixels approach
1:18:41
instantly. And CGI animation as a whole,
1:18:44
everyone just followed suit. And I think it still looks
1:18:47
great. It probably always will, yeah.
1:18:49
Yeah. I mean ground breaking is the
1:18:50
word, isn't it? And I completely agree with what
1:18:52
you are saying, Yeah. If you look at later Pixar
1:18:55
films, yes, you would definitely get better at animating humans
1:18:58
in particular. I think maybe you could say some
1:19:00
of the faces in this are a bit stiff and a bit generic when
1:19:03
they kind of compare them to the other ones.
1:19:06
But you know, the starting from scratch here.
1:19:08
So any criticism you have, I think it's OK to kind of dismiss
1:19:11
it like Wesley's saying. But for me, it's the way that
1:19:13
they kind of replicate the way that the camera moves in the
1:19:15
scene. You know, a lot of previous
1:19:17
animations could be a bit static, but this one shots like
1:19:20
the POV of Woody being pushed down the banister or going round
1:19:23
and round and round on the swivel chair.
1:19:25
You know, that's taking the idea of movement in animation to
1:19:28
another level entirely. And it's also a film that's not
1:19:31
just content to just have day and night animation, which I
1:19:34
would guess is probably easy. You know, that's seen before
1:19:36
Pizza Planet. It's dusk, and evidence is
1:19:39
bathed in that orange glow, and it looks incredible.
1:19:42
Yeah. So yes, he could argue they will
1:19:44
improve the visuals as the developers accompany, but that
1:19:47
doesn't take away anything from how good they are here.
1:19:50
Absolutely, for sure. Yeah, and John Lasseter said the
1:19:53
intentionally drew storyboards and created animations as if
1:19:56
they're all being filmed by somebody with a camera.
1:19:58
So the camera moves at times like on a crane, like said, and
1:20:01
other times like it's on a Steadicam.
1:20:03
Really, really excellently done. Yeah.
1:20:05
Yeah, that shot we talked about with Buzzers duvet.
1:20:08
Yeah, the camera kind of spins, but like it's on a crane.
1:20:10
Yes, it's. Kind of strange because I think
1:20:13
it kind of messes with us subconsciously a bit.
1:20:15
It does with me. It does a little bit, Yeah,
1:20:17
well. You're kind of thinking, I know
1:20:18
this wasn't filmed by a cameraman, but it looks like it
1:20:20
was. But it looks like it was.
1:20:21
Yeah, and the camera going over the top with the Marines jumping
1:20:24
down with the parachutes, it's just how did you do that?
1:20:28
And one thing to mention is that Andy's dad has never seen or
1:20:30
mentioned in the films and there's been a lot of online
1:20:33
speculation about the reason why.
1:20:35
Is he at work? Did he leave, Abandoned the
1:20:37
family? Is he dead?
1:20:38
And Andrew Stanton said the actual reason we don't see
1:20:41
Andy's dad is actually very simple and not as interesting as
1:20:43
the theories. It just would have taken too
1:20:45
long and being too expensive to animate another human being.
1:20:49
And for the same reason all the human characters have short hair
1:20:52
and Andy's mum has her hair tied up in a ponytail.
1:20:55
Yeah, it was. Woody won it.
1:20:56
That's Andy's dad. That's why it's called Woody.
1:21:02
Well, that's the same reason it's only 81 minutes long,
1:21:05
presumably. Yeah.
1:21:06
I mean, they're dipping the toes in the water a bit.
1:21:07
I'll get cross. Yeah.
1:21:08
Yeah. And similar to that is the
1:21:10
birthday party we talked about. When we look through Sergey's
1:21:12
binoculars, we'll see the kids. And if you look, you can see
1:21:14
they all look very similar to Andy.
1:21:16
Yes, they do. We just got different colour
1:21:18
skin. Different colour hair.
1:21:19
Yeah. Because they use the same model.
1:21:21
Yeah. Time is money, I guess.
1:21:22
Well, Disney did that. Didn't know with jungle boot
1:21:24
Robin Hood so it's all repeated. Of course, Yeah.
1:21:27
Of course it did. Yeah.
1:21:28
The team that created Toy Story was relatively very small.
1:21:31
Pixar employed 110 people in total to make the film.
1:21:35
To make The Lion King, which came out in 94, Disney had a
1:21:38
team of 800 employees working on it well.
1:21:41
Yeah, this is before the days of the Internet has been No today.
1:21:44
And because the team was so small, they didn't have runners
1:21:46
like a big Disney production like The Lion King usually
1:21:48
would. So when an animator finished a
1:21:50
shot, apparently they would put it on a videotape and then
1:21:53
someone would jump on a scooter and shoot from the Pixar office
1:21:56
to take it to the editors. Not why there's people need to a
1:21:59
plank award. Hopefully that would have been.
1:22:01
Difficult I really didn't find on a moped though, yeah.
1:22:04
Yeah, that's right. And Lassiter said that animators
1:22:08
had to overcome huge challenges. Every leaf and blade of grass
1:22:11
had to be created individually. The character of Woody alone had
1:22:14
723 motion controls, including 212 for his face and 58 for his
1:22:21
mouth, and 300 computers we used to render the final movie.
1:22:24
It took 800,000 hours and 114,240 frames of animation in
1:22:30
total. That's about 91 days to render.
1:22:34
And you've noticed as well, when the toys blink, their eyes
1:22:37
always open and close one or two frames apart, which was to make
1:22:39
it look more realistic. Yeah.
1:22:41
Made your attention the detail in there.
1:22:42
Yeah. Blades of grass individually
1:22:45
don't. Know mental?
1:22:46
Imagine that was, you know, W you're in charge of the grass in
1:22:49
California Sound. No, no, no, no.
1:22:51
No, the Toy Story grass. Computer technology and
1:22:55
animation goes hand in hand today, but Lasseter said that at
1:22:58
the time they were so different that find an animator who knew
1:23:01
how to use computers was pretty much impossible.
1:23:04
So they had to hire hand drawn or stop motion animators and
1:23:07
teach them how to use technology.
1:23:09
Andrew Stanton said he would regularly come across animators
1:23:11
trying to draw on the screens or move the screen models by hand
1:23:15
as it didn't really understand it.
1:23:18
Like Armageddon teaching a bunch of drillers how to fly a
1:23:20
spaceship. This makes more sense.
1:23:25
You can't teach an animator how to draw, can you?
1:23:28
Yeah. And the standards of Pixar last
1:23:30
star setting, these people who are learning on the job are
1:23:32
still like sky high. But I guess if you pull it off,
1:23:35
you end up with greatness. And that's kind of what they
1:23:37
did, yeah. Yeah, definitely, yeah.
1:23:39
No direct Oscars recognition for the visuals on Toy Story.
1:23:42
It didn't exist as a category at the time, but by 2002 there was
1:23:46
a Best Animated Feature award, right?
1:23:48
Sure, with no small part of Pixar, I think.
1:23:50
Absolutely, yeah. The first winner, though, wasn't
1:23:52
a Pixar film. Do you know what it was?
1:23:54
Matt well. 2002. Shrek.
1:23:57
It was Shrek. Some boy you like.
1:24:01
Unbelievable. And in doing pioneering work,
1:24:03
Toy Story did help establish a visual language that would kind
1:24:06
of define computer animation for years to come.
1:24:09
Oh, definitely. Oh, absolutely, yeah.
1:24:11
So we've looked at some people who worked on Toy Story there,
1:24:13
the writers, and there was a few of them bringing the script to
1:24:15
life. Yeah.
1:24:16
Randy Newman creating the famous soundtrack and the animation
1:24:19
teams setting new standards. All in all, pretty impressive
1:24:23
stuff from the Pixar crew. Very impressive.
1:24:25
Usually, yeah, Once Upon a time in Hollywood.
1:24:33
We've arrived the climax where the Mansons turn up.
1:24:36
Yep. Tarantino mixes things up,
1:24:38
though. The family arrived on Cielo
1:24:40
Drive, but instead of targeting Sharon Tate's house, they go
1:24:42
after Rick's after recognizing him for playing JK Hill.
1:24:46
Ridiculous. Yeah.
1:24:48
But. They picked the wrong house on
1:24:50
the wrong night. Cliff and Brandy are waiting.
1:24:52
Yep. What will we still worry about,
1:24:54
Matt? It all turns out fine, doesn't
1:24:56
it? God, exactly.
1:24:58
And the first time you see this, the way the tension just raised
1:25:04
its head, it's so effective because it's been such a lock up
1:25:08
until now. You just hanging out with Rick
1:25:10
and Cliff, and then you feel you just brought back down worth
1:25:13
with a very big bump. That realization of shit, This
1:25:16
is that night with these people and we all know what happened,
1:25:20
which therefore makes that sense of relief when you realize where
1:25:23
he's taking this now and they've got it wrong.
1:25:25
It's so effective and you can relax because you think, oh,
1:25:29
thank God he's not going there. And what I get from this is a
1:25:32
sense of genuine kind of anger from Tarantino.
1:25:35
He really wishes this had happened.
1:25:37
Don't we all? We all do, obviously, But you
1:25:40
can tell he he almost takes it personally.
1:25:42
And it is kind of uncomfortable seeing this violence being
1:25:44
dished out to them. But it's also kind of funny at
1:25:47
the same time, the fact that Cliff is tripping out of his
1:25:50
mind. So does he even think any of
1:25:52
this is real? Does he know what's going on?
1:25:54
I think that's the point, isn't it?
1:25:56
Yeah, exactly, because it's not contrast of the danger he's in,
1:25:59
but how funny he thinks it is. Like you are a.
1:26:01
Horsey, really funny. I love the payoff with Brandy.
1:26:05
You can see, you know, we've seen earlier she's controlled
1:26:07
with just a hand movement and then the click of his tongue and
1:26:10
you just think, yes, this is great.
1:26:11
This is what what the deserved. But if I could go back in time
1:26:15
and see your film again for the first time with no prior
1:26:17
knowledge, it might be this one. Just for that scene of Rick's
1:26:21
driving out of the garage with a flame.
1:26:23
For first time I saw this, I lost it for about 5 minutes I
1:26:28
was just helpless with laughter. So the whole thing, it could be
1:26:32
ridiculous, but it works so well because underneath the OTT
1:26:36
violence in the dark comedy, there's a genuine honesty to
1:26:38
this. You think, yeah, this is how it
1:26:41
should have gone down and I really wish I could have done.
1:26:44
Yeah, I had the way the build up to the night with the montage
1:26:47
and Kurt Russell narrating where everyone is and what time it is.
1:26:49
That works really well. That's brilliant, yeah.
1:26:52
Builds up the sense of dread because we think we know what's
1:26:55
coming. Yeah, and somehow still funny.
1:26:57
Rick's in the film called Kill Me Quick, Ringo, said The
1:27:00
gringo. Ridiculous.
1:27:03
Really funny when the mansions first turned up and the cars
1:27:06
making a racket and Rick looks out the window when he's like
1:27:09
bunch of God damn fucking. Yeah.
1:27:12
And then storms out in his tiny room.
1:27:14
Very quantum. I love the whole thing and
1:27:17
there's more than I can talk about.
1:27:19
I'm a huge fan of the Mansons talking in their car at the
1:27:22
bottom of Cielo Drive. Yes, I'm a master fan.
1:27:24
Austin Butler's text where he's like, he either said that or I'm
1:27:28
a liar. Yeah.
1:27:29
You calling me a liar? He's fantastic as always.
1:27:33
And how good is Mikey Madison as Susan Atkins?
1:27:35
Believable. She's a charisma volcano.
1:27:38
William Shatner. Yeah, No surprise she went on to
1:27:41
be an Oscar winner. Yeah, and then You Keep Me
1:27:44
Hanging On by Vanilla Fudge kicking in as the Mansons
1:27:46
approach the door. For a version that.
1:27:48
That's a needle drop and a half, Yeah.
1:27:50
And just about every that filmmaker in the world would
1:27:52
surely than a parallel editing trick like Silence of the Lambs
1:27:55
huddles thinking the mansions were at Sharon's door.
1:27:57
And it turns out with Rick's cuties above all that, though,
1:28:00
Yeah. But yeah, this is what we all
1:28:01
wish. It happened, obviously, when
1:28:02
these bastards turned up. Yeah.
1:28:04
I'm not entirely sure why Rick turns Atkins and the Fried
1:28:07
Sauerkra when he's got no idea what's going on, but I'm here
1:28:11
for it, yeah. It's just a wonderful sequence,
1:28:14
isn't it? First time I'd seen it.
1:28:15
I was waiting for this moment to happen.
1:28:17
And then when it did happen, the first thing I thought to myself
1:28:20
was this is a Quentin Tarantino movie now this is a Quentin
1:28:24
Tarantino film because nobody else could even touch this to
1:28:27
this degree of the how acceptable this violence is.
1:28:31
Then none of us have really touched about on how violent
1:28:33
this really is. Massively.
1:28:34
It's horrendous. Hitting a head off the
1:28:37
fireplace, off the table, and it's just the corner of the fire
1:28:40
and it's bang, bang, bang. Yeah, Yeah.
1:28:42
A tin of dog food in a face smashes our nose in a dog
1:28:46
ripping his balls off, basically.
1:28:48
And then ripped her into bits. But you're there for it.
1:28:51
Like John just said, you're there for it.
1:28:52
Somebody set on fire in a swimming pool, like set on fire.
1:28:55
You could tell it's real new tolling camera.
1:28:58
It's horrendous. And we'll stay on it.
1:28:59
Yeah. And we'll see the corpse.
1:29:01
And we're quite happy to see the corpse.
1:29:02
Yeah. I think that's Tarantino given
1:29:05
the finger to any single critic and just said these movies are
1:29:08
too violent because they're going to be punching the sky at
1:29:11
the moment that this happens, watching this film, and it's
1:29:13
going to be gone. Is it too violent now?
1:29:15
Yeah. Yeah.
1:29:15
You wanted this to happen. You're happy.
1:29:17
It's this violent. You're happy.
1:29:18
Wouldn't do this in cinema, aren't you?
1:29:20
And they're going well, Yeah, actually, which is really,
1:29:22
really Quentin Tarantino for me. The minute that Cliff walks away
1:29:27
with Brandy and just holds that shot and then the car comes up.
1:29:30
Oh. It's great.
1:29:31
It's. Fucking so good.
1:29:33
It's just like, wow, that that's tension again.
1:29:35
And like you said, just Rick Maker margaritas.
1:29:37
I kind of get more of that. I kind of get any more of it.
1:29:40
Just shaking. He just wants it now.
1:29:42
And just drinking it straight out of the mixer as he's walking
1:29:45
back. Fantastic sequence, fantastic
1:29:47
ending. I can't get enough of it, but I
1:29:49
can't watch it by itself. I need them other two hours, 10
1:29:52
minutes. Yeah, yeah.
1:29:53
To really really make it appreciate how good this
1:29:55
sequence is. Absolutely, Yeah.
1:29:57
So as we know, Tarantino changed his history here, but there are
1:30:01
still a lot of references to the real events that transpired.
1:30:04
Firstly, don't worry, we're not that type of podcast.
1:30:06
We're not going into any detail on the brutal and horrific stuff
1:30:09
that happened. Yeah.
1:30:11
Because it is genuinely horrific, not the kind of thing
1:30:13
you expect to hear on a movie podcast.
1:30:15
So we'll leave that. No, it's not going to happen.
1:30:17
So. On the day though, Sharon is
1:30:19
visited by her friend Joanne who brings her baby.
1:30:21
This is Joanna Pettet, a British actress who was Sharons friend
1:30:24
and did visit her on that day and she's played by Rumor Willis
1:30:28
in the film who was daughter of Demi Moore and Bruce Willis.
1:30:30
Yeah. Nice.
1:30:32
She was in the original Casino Royale.
1:30:33
Joanne Pettet, also apparently Deborah Tate, who we talked
1:30:36
about. She called Sharon that day and
1:30:38
wanted to visit her that night, but Sharon said no because she
1:30:41
was having friends over. Right, okay.
1:30:43
Grateful for small mercies for 16 year old could have been
1:30:46
there. Escape, yeah.
1:30:47
And Steve McQueen. Well, I wish she was there.
1:30:50
Yeah, you would have sold them out.
1:30:51
Yeah. Captain Hills.
1:30:54
And the car the Manson's turnip in was a recreation of their
1:30:56
real Ford Galaxy. Steven Butcher was the Picture
1:30:59
Corps coordinator and he was given access to the Manson's car
1:31:03
and recreated it right down to having the same dents.
1:31:06
Wow. Yeah, Also the truck from FBI,
1:31:08
the show that Rick's in. Yeah, Butcher got his hands on
1:31:11
the very truck from that episode of FBI.
1:31:13
So it's the real thing that we see.
1:31:14
I love that episode of FBI. It's great.
1:31:16
Brad Pitt's voice, so I love that shot.
1:31:19
Kill #2. I don't think we'll talk about a
1:31:22
pitcher called coordinator before either.
1:31:24
No, I haven't. But you kind of have to on this.
1:31:26
Yeah, he did a pretty good job. And never will again.
1:31:30
And the four Manson family members, all the same four that
1:31:33
went to Sharon's so Charles, Tex Watson, Susan Sadie Atkins,
1:31:38
Patricia Quinn Winkle, played by Madison Beatty, and Linda
1:31:41
Kasabian, played by Maya Hawk, daughter of Uma Thurman and
1:31:45
Ethan Hawk. Yeah, yeah.
1:31:47
Then the Kasabian was the only one who didn't go to jail for
1:31:49
the murders. Apparently she did try to stop
1:31:51
them on the night and then testified against the others
1:31:53
afterwards to put them away. That's right.
1:31:55
So that's why Tarantino had to drive away in the car,
1:31:57
presumably. Right.
1:31:58
Nice. And there were four people
1:32:00
inside Sharon's house who were killed by the mansions.
1:32:02
Sharon JC Green, Abigail Folger, played by Samantha Robinson, and
1:32:06
Voytek Frykowski, played by Costa Ronan.
1:32:09
But there was also a fifth victim.
1:32:11
Stephen Parent was sitting outside Sharon's house when the
1:32:14
mansions turned up and Charles Watson shot him.
1:32:17
Yeah, there's no reference to him in the film at all.
1:32:18
Stephen Parent, But Abigail Folger was daughter of Peter
1:32:21
Folger of the Folger Coffee Company.
1:32:23
She was. She was pretty well known at the
1:32:25
time as well apparently. Right.
1:32:27
We also see Abigail at the piano singing Straight Shooter by the
1:32:30
Mamas and Papas, and this is because when the police arrived
1:32:33
the next day, they found the sheet music to the song on the
1:32:35
piano. Right.
1:32:37
And Michelle Phillips of the Mamas and the Pub has apparently
1:32:39
had a thing with Polanski when he was with Sharon, which I
1:32:42
guess is why she's at the Playboy party near the start.
1:32:44
Right. OK, Wow.
1:32:47
Voytek Frykowski, He did sleep on the couch like Sean in the
1:32:50
film, and he was walking by Charles Watson pointing a gun in
1:32:53
his face. When he asked who he was, Watson
1:32:55
said I'm the devil and I'm here to do the devil's business,
1:32:58
which is aligned Texas in the film.
1:33:00
It is, yeah. Holding that, yeah.
1:33:02
But the delivery of it is excellent, but terrifying when
1:33:04
you know that's what he really said.
1:33:06
Yeah, it is. And then the following night,
1:33:09
the 10th of August, the Mansons went to the home of a
1:33:11
businessman called Leno Lapianca and murdered him and his wife
1:33:14
Rosemarie. It was the same 4 plus Leslie
1:33:17
Van Houten and Manson himself. Linda Kasabian said Manson
1:33:21
wanted to show them how it was done.
1:33:24
Well, for that, Manson and the four family members went to
1:33:26
prison in 1971. Four of them were never
1:33:29
released. And Leslie Van Houten was
1:33:30
released after 53 years, right. Was it worth it to be Evil
1:33:34
Bastard for a couple of days? No, of course, no, no, bloody
1:33:36
hell. So anyway, that is some nicer
1:33:38
stuff. Please.
1:33:39
Yeah. The creativity behind the film
1:33:41
because he changed it. Tarantino left the end and out
1:33:43
of the script that he gave to people.
1:33:45
The only people apart from Tarantino who knew from the
1:33:48
start what would happen were Tarantino, DiCaprio, Pitt and
1:33:51
Robbie. And Robert Richardson didn't
1:33:53
even know until like midway through production to allow him
1:33:56
to prepare for it. He didn't know until he's got to
1:33:58
prep for the end what happens. I think he also let everyone,
1:34:02
Polanski's representative read the ending, right?
1:34:04
I mean, that's a bit he's going to be concerned about.
1:34:05
So you kind of have to I. Think yeah, of course, yeah.
1:34:07
And there's a couple of other actors with Tyson Tarantino who
1:34:10
show up in smaller roles. Rick's Italian actress wife,
1:34:13
Francesca Capucci. Oliver Renko Russell says her
1:34:16
name. Yeah, it's great.
1:34:18
She's played by Lorenzo Izzo, and she's the wife of Eli Roth,
1:34:21
famously 1 of Tarantino's film maker buddies.
1:34:24
All right. And the girl who sells Cliff the
1:34:26
cigarette dipped in acid for $0.50.
1:34:27
That's Pearlie Heaney Jardine. And she played BB the Bright's
1:34:32
little girl in Kill Bill Volume 2.
1:34:34
Oh wow. Nice, Yeah.
1:34:36
And away we go off his box. When the man sits, you can't
1:34:43
even put the lights on. Licking the dog food.
1:34:47
It's when he tries the dog food he's I'm really tempted.
1:34:50
Yeah, he is tempted. Yeah, he is.
1:34:52
And then it's all over. Cliff leaves in the ambulance,
1:34:54
Francesca just goes back to bed somehow, and we get Rick left
1:34:58
alone for the final moments. What do we think of the Den
1:35:01
humor? I find it very, very poignant,
1:35:05
and not just because Rick has been accepted as a real hero and
1:35:08
he's in the Hollywood circle now, but because this is how
1:35:11
that night should have ended. And the tragic thing is, we all
1:35:13
know how it did. And the music suddenly becomes
1:35:16
very melancholic and gentle. You get another one of those
1:35:18
incredible crane shots. And I just think it's so
1:35:21
notable. It's only now we get the title
1:35:23
on screen because, yeah, sadly, this is only a fairy tale.
1:35:26
I think this moment is the most heartfelt thing Tarantino's ever
1:35:30
done, and in terms of his punch on for change in history, this
1:35:34
lands 1000 times better than it did in Inglourious Basterds.
1:35:39
I totally agree, I love it as a final scene.
1:35:41
It's funny when she asked Rick if everyone's OK and Rick's
1:35:43
like, well, the hippies aren't, that's for goddamn sure.
1:35:49
And with the crane shots over Cielo Dr. obviously, as we have
1:35:53
to, and it's one of the best ones.
1:35:54
We get Miss Lee Langtry by Marie Shaw playing us out and the logo
1:35:58
comes over the screen. It is perfect way to end.
1:36:02
Yeah, except for one thing. OK.
1:36:04
Right, so Rick's standing there alone on the drive.
1:36:06
He has hello off screen. Turns around to see Jay Sebring
1:36:09
at the gate. Yeah.
1:36:11
Why or why is that not Sharon standing there?
1:36:14
Yeah. I.
1:36:15
Cannot fathom it as a storytelling choice.
1:36:17
We've not seen them together. The whole thing's been set up
1:36:19
since the first act, and the dialogue doesn't even need a
1:36:21
change. Sharon going all the flame
1:36:24
through our from 1450. McCluskey.
1:36:25
How awesome would that be? Yeah, I said this about the end
1:36:28
of In Glorious Basterds, and the only reason I can think of is
1:36:31
that Tarrant, he was doing it to piss me off.
1:36:34
It's mad. Or am I wrong?
1:36:36
Is it better this way, Wesley? I don't know.
1:36:37
I think it's good that she's on the intercom and she's asking
1:36:39
what's happening from the safety, from the the safety of a
1:36:41
house and he's coming out and try and play the big guy and
1:36:44
find out what's wrong. She's heavily pregnant.
1:36:46
She's entertainment. She's always the entertainer.
1:36:48
She wants to find out who's there for her to investigate
1:36:50
something that was could be bad news.
1:36:53
That's not her character to do and never has been throughout
1:36:55
this film or throughout this fairy tale, really.
1:36:57
It does make more sense he'd be the one that goes out.
1:36:59
You're absolutely right. Yeah.
1:37:00
It's just seeing them together. We kind of need it, don't we?
1:37:04
Yeah, I guess so, yeah. I know what you mean.
1:37:05
Yeah, we do though. Get another scene where to cap
1:37:08
you and Robbie share the screen. On the flight back from Italy,
1:37:11
Rick has served a cocktail by stewardess at one point.
1:37:14
We only see her arms and hear her say enjoys her, but that's
1:37:17
Margot Robbie. Nice.
1:37:19
Yeah, she made a name in America playing in a stewardess in the
1:37:22
TV show called Pan Am Margot Robbie.
1:37:25
So with all the references to TV in the film, I guess that's why
1:37:28
they did it, which is a nice touch if so.
1:37:29
Makes sense, yeah. And with that we fade to black
1:37:33
and an end credit sequence featuring Rick advertising Red
1:37:35
Apple cigarettes. So we are in the Tarantino
1:37:38
verse. Here we are.
1:37:39
And the Rick put you just cardboard cut out.
1:37:41
I've got a double shit. Yeah.
1:37:43
These cigarettes taste like shit.
1:37:46
As for the climax that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Tarantino
1:37:48
flips things on its head and gives us the fairy tale we wish
1:37:51
we'd got. Absolutely, 100%.
1:37:53
Absolutely. GfK.
1:38:01
For a film of this magnitude, JFK went through production very
1:38:04
swiftly. There were a couple of months
1:38:06
prep, three months for the shoot and only three months in the
1:38:08
cutting room. Considering the task at hand,
1:38:12
it's a minor miracle Stone rushed it through without test
1:38:15
screenings to avoid negative feedback, creating notes from
1:38:18
the studio asking for reshoots. Obviously, yeah, Stone's
1:38:23
original cut of JFK ran at 4 1/2 hours, he said.
1:38:27
There was a lot of Clear Shore footage that was removed, along
1:38:30
with a fantasy sequence of Oswald looking at the camera
1:38:33
protesting his innocence. And I think that's what that.
1:38:35
'D be the. The original Cook came in at 3
1:38:40
hours 8 minutes despite it being in his contract to be 3 hours or
1:38:43
under. And the director's cut came out
1:38:45
a few years later, clocking in at a whopping 3 hours and 25
1:38:48
minutes. So we mentioned the two scenes
1:38:50
at the talk show and at the airport, which were reinserted.
1:38:53
And the rest of the extra footage is additional moments of
1:38:56
dialogue, which are just added to scenes already in the
1:38:58
theatrical cut. Yes, that's right.
1:39:00
Yeah. But well before that, months
1:39:02
before the film actually came out, it faced a huge backlash.
1:39:07
The first moment of discontent came from George Will of the
1:39:10
Washington Post, based on a leaked copy of the first draft
1:39:13
of the screenplay. He claimed that the movie was a
1:39:15
three hour lie and said that Stone may be an intellectual
1:39:19
sociopath. True, it's fine.
1:39:25
He's. Admitted that the Post later ran
1:39:28
a story called Onset Dallas in Wonderland, How Oliver Stone's
1:39:33
version of Kennedy assassination exploits the edge of paranoia.
1:39:36
Dallas in Wonderland. That's genius.
1:39:39
I love you, Yeah. Almost as good as Garrison Ford.
1:39:43
So praise, no praise. Obviously don't get anywhere
1:39:46
else. Do it.
1:39:50
Newsweek cover story. Read why Oliver Stones new movie
1:39:53
can't be trusted and chief exec of the MPAA Jack Valenti
1:39:57
compared JFK to the Nazi propaganda film Triumph of the
1:40:00
Will. Wow, wow.
1:40:02
See where he's coming. From views.
1:40:04
So upon release, it was healed by mainstream media as the most
1:40:07
dangerous movie in America. I mean, that would just make me
1:40:10
want to say it all the more. Let's.
1:40:12
Go 3 hours, absolutely get it in there.
1:40:14
It's. Banned like Texas trade.
1:40:16
So yeah, exactly more pleased. And it wasn't just media outlets
1:40:20
who were outraged by what the source their irresponsibility of
1:40:23
spreading and normalizing misinformation.
1:40:25
The government went sense with their betrayal.
1:40:27
A secret of murderers involved in nefarious plots, including
1:40:30
defectors in the Mafia and Storm was also targeted by historians
1:40:34
only interested in facts. Just rude to be honest.
1:40:37
Yeah and like minded conspiracy theories.
1:40:40
And they were frustrated because they didn't have the kind of
1:40:42
platforms Stone did to spout their views.
1:40:44
Getting it from all angles, Stone said.
1:40:47
It was a hot potato from the get go, much hotter than I thought.
1:40:50
I didn't realise it would hit the central nerve core of the
1:40:53
establishment. That's what you want.
1:40:55
Yeah, because he did. Because he did, and.
1:40:57
When it opened in December 1991, there was a muted audience
1:41:01
response to JFK and its opening week.
1:41:03
It ended up at the disappointing 5th on the box office charts and
1:41:06
was at the way to becoming a flop.
1:41:08
Yes, but in the weeks that followed, which included a $15
1:41:11
million ad campaign, JFK built up a huge amount of momentum and
1:41:15
wound up earning A whopping $200 million at the box office, which
1:41:19
made it a sixth highest grossing film of the year.
1:41:21
Wow. I mean from rising from the
1:41:24
ashes there. Yeah, for a three hour plus
1:41:26
period piece this dense. Yeah, DMA.
1:41:29
But I suppose there's no such thing as bad press.
1:41:31
No. Definitely well when you got
1:41:33
15,000,000 inject. 15 I mean we'd be, we'd earn 200 mill if
1:41:37
we were given the 15 mill marketing campaign.
1:41:40
Absolutely. If we were the most dangerous
1:41:42
pot in America, I think we are. We are.
1:41:46
We are with this episode, yes. We are.
1:41:48
They're going to come after us. After JFK came out Paul Short
1:41:51
that 80% of the American public believed that there was a
1:41:54
conspiracy behind JFK's death, which was up 10% from a similar
1:41:58
poll conducted in the late 70s. Right.
1:42:01
See, it was always there. It was always there.
1:42:03
It was always there. It was polarizing with critics
1:42:06
upon release. A lot focused on the spread of
1:42:08
misinformation, The New York Times said.
1:42:10
At what point does a studio exercise its leverage and blunt
1:42:13
the highly charged message of a film maker like Oliver Stone?
1:42:17
Never. Never.
1:42:18
Don't do it. Not at.
1:42:19
All However, there were critics who loved the film, but that was
1:42:22
also highly controversial. Richard Callas in Time magazine
1:42:26
said whatever one suspicions about its use or abuse of the
1:42:29
evidence, JFK is a knockout. Yeah, part history book, part
1:42:33
comic book, the movie rushes toward judgment for three
1:42:35
breathless hours, lasso in facts and factoids by the thousands,
1:42:39
then bundling them together into an incendiary device that would
1:42:43
frag any viewers. Complacency, indeed.
1:42:47
And what of our man Ebert Fellas out of four?
1:42:50
He'd give it full, didn't he? Because he got some shit for it,
1:42:52
I think. Yeah, I think he's all in on
1:42:53
this. He'd love.
1:42:54
It he's pure Cinema 4. Yes, yes, four of the best 4/4,
1:42:59
he said. Oliver Stone was born to make
1:43:00
this movie. He's a film maker of feverish
1:43:03
energy and limitless technical skill, able to assemble a
1:43:06
bewilder an array of facts and fancies and compose them into a
1:43:09
film without getting bogged down.
1:43:11
Yeah, even the critics suffered a backlash to the film as well.
1:43:14
Though the Washingtonian movie critic Pat Dowell loved the film
1:43:17
but had her mini review of it rejected because of the
1:43:20
positivity she portrayed, she resulted in protest.
1:43:24
Wow. For her, yeah.
1:43:26
And as you said, Wesley Ebert later told a story about TV
1:43:29
legend Walter Cronkite given him a dressing down because of the
1:43:32
positive review the film picked up.
1:43:34
Madness. Unbelievable enough.
1:43:36
Very much at the Oscars. It was a big night for Silence
1:43:40
of the Lambs, obviously, so JFK faced stiff competition in the
1:43:43
categories it was nominated for, which were Best Picture,
1:43:46
Director, Adapted Screenplay, supporting actor Tommy Lee
1:43:49
Jones, Score and Sound. It did, however, pick up two
1:43:52
awards that we've already mentioned.
1:43:54
Best Editing? Best Cinematography?
1:43:56
I mean, those got to be two of the most deserved awards.
1:43:59
Editing and shooting this. Yeah, forget about.
1:44:03
That's of the way you said, Tommy Lee Jones.
1:44:04
There you go. OK, Burton.
1:44:10
Best support Charlie Jones. It also got similar recognition
1:44:17
at the Golden Globes, where it was nominated for Best Motion
1:44:19
Picture, Best Actor Kevin Costner and Best Screenplay.
1:44:23
Do that on every single episode now.
1:44:25
Yeah. Love it.
1:44:29
The Storm won best director of the Golden Globes and in his
1:44:32
acceptance speech he said a terrible lie was told.
1:44:34
It was 28 years ago. I hope that this film could be
1:44:37
the first step in righting that wrong by telling around 32 other
1:44:41
lies. Yes.
1:44:43
But better lies, yeah? It received a similar number of
1:44:46
nominations to the Baftas, and one for best edit and a best
1:44:49
sound as well. Yeah.
1:44:50
So a response rarely seen going beyond the confines of the world
1:44:53
of cinema and in the public consciousness.
1:44:56
The fact that it was Oliver Stone's most successful film
1:44:58
that the box office is almost unfathomable, with some very
1:45:02
positive reviews and awards recognition thrown in for good
1:45:04
measure and unexpected success story.
1:45:07
Yeah, possibly. There are no sequels to JFK as
1:45:10
such. There were a number of
1:45:12
publications and documentaries in the wake of the film.
1:45:14
Isle of a Stone himself directed two key documentaries on the
1:45:17
subject. JK Revisited through the Looking
1:45:20
Glass A2 hour documentary from 2021 reinforces theories
1:45:23
introduced in the film, backed up by new interviews and
1:45:26
evidence, none of which is that credible.
1:45:29
Laser beam. Laser beam.
1:45:39
And he also directed JFK Destiny Betrayed, A4 part documentary
1:45:42
released around the same time that goes into detail about the
1:45:45
circumstances and political events leading up to the
1:45:47
assassination and in the aftermath.
1:45:50
That one is well worth a watch. OK.
1:45:52
Nice. But one of the film's legacy and
1:45:55
influence? Westie, where have you seen that
1:45:56
in the last 30 odd years? Well, I mean, I've said when
1:46:00
we're talking about the the closing speech there, I mean,
1:46:02
it's every courtroom drama that's all evident in there.
1:46:05
But I think if you're looking at something that's going to maybe
1:46:08
address some kind of truth that was swept away, I think Zero
1:46:11
Dark 30 owes a lot to this. The open and the Zero Dark 30 is
1:46:14
very, very similar. The ones that were very similar
1:46:19
and ones that remind me very much so In the Line of Fire I
1:46:22
think wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this.
1:46:24
Malcolm X came out the year after incredible and I think
1:46:27
that has a lot to do with it. Even films like Milk I think has
1:46:30
a lot to do with JFK and then 112263, Stephen King.
1:46:35
I think I love that book and the series.
1:46:38
The series is brilliant. Watch that as well.
1:46:41
So that that was really good, but I think just a different
1:46:43
kind of take on that guy goes back in time and can prevent the
1:46:46
murder. Stephen King at his best for me,
1:46:50
recent best, anyway, it's. Fantastic.
1:46:52
Yeah. And what about you, Matt?
1:46:54
Legacy and influence. Influence a big one on TV, The
1:46:57
X-Files. Are they without doubt Chris
1:46:59
Carter, creator of The X-Files. He obviously watched this and
1:47:02
thought what if they were talking about aliens though
1:47:06
instead of an assassination. In terms of cinema I'd be
1:47:08
fascinated he offended his thoughts on this because this
1:47:11
feels like it's a clear influence on Zodiac.
1:47:14
Going down the rabbit hole and great spiracies, identifying
1:47:18
people as being involved, laying out the evidence bit by bit by
1:47:21
bit in the really compelling manner.
1:47:23
And then legacy. I look at Oliver Stone himself
1:47:25
and I think if you look at the rest of his filmography after
1:47:27
this, it feels like this took so much out of him.
1:47:31
I don't think he ever quite recovered.
1:47:32
I mean, there's flashes of greatness after this and he
1:47:35
given Sunday Nixon's worth a watch.
1:47:38
Not robot killers are certainly interesting, but nothing on the
1:47:41
level of what he achieved here. Or before that, either.
1:47:44
Well, yeah, Platoon, Wall Street on the 4th of July.
1:47:48
Those are all incredible films. I don't think he hit those
1:47:50
milestones after this. He's made the ultimate Oliver
1:47:54
Stone film. Yeah.
1:47:55
So where else could he go? And that's its legacy for me.
1:47:57
It's an ultimate Oliver Stone film.
1:47:59
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you fellas have said.
1:48:02
Zodiac for certain. The way that film presents its
1:48:04
evidence. Also a lot to JFK.
1:48:07
Not as in your face as JFK, of course, but also not forget what
1:48:11
you said in the line of Fire, Dick Donna's conspiracy theory.
1:48:14
There are loads of examples. Yeah, conspiracy theory.
1:48:16
Yeah, Mel Gibson actually been in that one.
1:48:18
Yes, exactly. That's right.
1:48:20
Yeah, It's been parodied in the likes of Seinfeld.
1:48:24
It was solely responsible for a resurgence in huge public
1:48:27
interest in the case, bringing it back into public
1:48:29
consciousness. Countless documentaries and
1:48:31
books have been made as a result.
1:48:33
Stone's film made the subject of bankable piece of IP, and I
1:48:36
don't think that Stone could have ever predicted the
1:48:38
intensity of the interest in the film and subject.
1:48:41
But I'm certainly was thrilled in one way with the scrutiny as
1:48:44
it challenged the governmental position on the assassination,
1:48:46
something that I believe was his ultimate goal.
1:48:49
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely was. When the scrutiny of the film
1:48:52
was at fever pitch, Warner spearheaded the campaign to free
1:48:55
the files, urging Congress to release classified files on the
1:48:58
assassination, which weren't planned to be made publicly
1:49:00
available until 2029. And this was done to take away a
1:49:04
slight focus from the film. And it ultimately led to the
1:49:07
passing of the John F Kennedy Assassination Records Collection
1:49:10
Act. And this led to the release of
1:49:12
millions of previously classified documents held on the
1:49:15
assassination, either directly or indirectly.
1:49:18
In Stone asserted that the material people was under lock
1:49:20
and key because there was something to hide.
1:49:22
I mean, you talk about legacy and influence.
1:49:24
Yeah. Wow.
1:49:24
I. Mean.
1:49:27
Yeah, it was also agreed that all the files will be
1:49:30
declassified by 2017, something with Trump delayed by three
1:49:33
years due to national security campaigns.
1:49:36
Biden got the ball rolling again, and in March 2025, Trump
1:49:39
ordered the declassification of 10s of thousands of pages, most
1:49:42
of which revealed very little. Although Trump did weighed in.
1:49:45
He said that he'd always agreed that Oswald shut JFK was he
1:49:49
helped. I guess we all want to know
1:49:51
that. Thanks, Donald.
1:49:52
And you? Know that's the power of cinema.
1:49:55
This is possibly the single most famous moment in 20th century
1:49:58
history, and Oliver Stone has embedded it in public
1:50:01
consciousness even further with this film.
1:50:03
Yeah, what a legacy. That's unbelievable.
1:50:12
Thank you for listening everyone, We hope you had a
1:50:14
great time. All of the episodes featured
1:50:16
today are still available for anyone to listen to wherever you
1:50:19
listen to podcasts. And if you could support us,
1:50:21
don't forget that you can become an ATRM patron on Spotify, Apple
1:50:25
Podcasts, YouTube, and Patreon. You can listen to endless hours
1:50:28
of podcasts created by ATRM and become part of our incredible
1:50:31
movie community. We will be back in two weeks
1:50:34
firing on all cylinders when John, Matt and Westie will be
1:50:37
going behind the scenes on Stonewall classic The Bridge on
1:50:40
the River Kwai and that will be followed 2 weeks later by our
1:50:43
behind the scenes show on The Fugitive.
1:50:45
And for our patrons, there's a brand new episode of The Watch
1:50:48
List out next week. And two weeks after that we're
1:50:50
talking about two classic Bond films on double feature From
1:50:53
Russia With Love and The Spy Who Love Me.
1:50:55
So don't forget to sign up to listen to both of those.
1:50:58
In the meantime, you can catch us all over social media on X.
1:51:01
We are at AT right movies where our making of movie threads,
1:51:04
just like our podcasts are crammed with incredible
1:51:07
Hollywood stories. And just like our podcasts, they
1:51:09
come from the mouths of cast and crew or a verified by at least
1:51:12
three sources. Keep checking back regularly for
1:51:14
those that go up all the time. And our threads are also on blue
1:51:17
sky where we are at all the right movies.com.
1:51:20
They are also on Threads where we are at all the under score
1:51:23
right movies, the same as our Instagram handle on TikTok
1:51:26
search at all the right movies. We also have an incredible movie
1:51:29
community on Facebook. So join our movie group there.
1:51:32
And as mentioned, we are on YouTube.
1:51:34
Watch our videos if you can. And the following like would be
1:51:37
much appreciated. That's youtube.com/all the right
1:51:40
movies and our website is All the right movies.com and that is
1:51:44
a wrap. Everyone.
1:51:45
Thank you for all of your support in 2025.
1:51:48
Loads more to come for the rest of the year and beyond.
1:51:51
Don't forget to come back in two weeks for the Bridge on the
1:51:53
River Choir. Thanks everyone.