Latest / IMI Podcasts / #22: Nomad Capitalist's Andrew Henderson: "My Advice is to Not Offer Free Consultations"

Transcript

#22: Nomad Capitalist's Andrew Henderson: "My Advice is to Not Offer Free Consultations" · IMI Podcasts

0:02
SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, it's 7 p.m.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: in Dubai, 3 p.m.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: in Lisbon, 11 a.m.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: in St.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: Kitts.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a new episode of the Mobility Standard, the podcast where we dissect current events, trends, and crucial questions related to investment migration.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Christian Nesse, editor of Investment Migration Insider.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: In this episode, I had the pleasure of talking to Andrew Henderson, the founder of Nomad Capitalist, who's both a good friend and an inspiration to me because of his incredible business acumen, especially when you consider his young age.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Andrew and I spoke about his upbringing in Ohio, starting a business in his early 20s, and his becoming disillusioned over the erosion of freedoms and confiscatory levels of taxation in the U.S.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Andrew discussed the communication errors he thinks many investment migration practitioners are committing and how it affects their relations with the powers that be.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: We talked about what he thinks are the reasons he has a social media following that's an order of magnitude greater than any other brand in RCBI.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: I asked Andrew why he rejects the vast majority of prospective clients and why he thinks free consultations are not helpful for industry practitioners or clients.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: We also explored what personal characteristics he shares and does not share with Donald Trump.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: We also discussed why he maintains permanent homes in six different countries on three different continents, why he picked those destinations to begin with, and where he's looking at for his next home.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: All of that and a great deal more in today's episode of the Mobility Standard.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to meet Andrew in person, you'll have a chance to do just that on November 2nd and 3rd during our upcoming IMI Connect Istanbul event.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: To learn more about how to get an invitation, go to imidaly.com and visit our events section.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Look for IMI Connect Istanbul.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: I'd like to remind you that you can follow all of IMI's stories on our website, imidaly.com, on our mobile phone apps, in our free newsletters, as well as on your favorite social media network.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: You can also follow this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and most other podcast platforms.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: With the preambles out of the way, let's get this show on the road.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: This this has to be, by the way, the largest mug I've ever seen.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: Or that anyone's ever.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: It's I am the boss.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: It says it twice, by the way, just in case you didn't know.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Just in case you didn't know.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So I I got this just from my wife as a reminder that I am, in fact, the boss.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: You like that?
2:46
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I love the acknowledgement.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I think this is gonna be probably the most controversial podcast in the history of I am I podcasts.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm I'm glad to be with you.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Hope you're right, Andrew.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Hope you're right.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: This is why I brought you on and buckle in.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: All right.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Um we always start this podcast by having the guests tell a little bit about themselves.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: But since you're famous already, we don't need to have the the introduction.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: So what I would like is kind of a quick recap of Andrew Henderson, where he's from, his origin story, and how he came to run Nomad Capitalist.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I founded Nomad Capitalist about 10 years ago.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was following growing up in the United States.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in the Midwest.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: We we talked about that, kind of our shared Norwegian roots.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I so I grew up in Ohio, and I was fortunate enough to have a father and a family who saw the writing in the wall of some of what's attracting a lot of business to this industry today, which is the decline of the West.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: We've seen a lot of that interest percolating in the last two and a half years from people realizing that things are getting worse in the West, freedoms are down, taxes are up, it's all going to get worse.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: But we were talking about that back in the mid-1990s.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And so what he told me was um, you know, don't feel that you're compelled to stay in one place.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Because I think most people, we realized, felt compelled to stay in the same place.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Like that's what you do.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: It's your family here.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: You can't leave.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're all trying to get out, but we can't, right?
4:24
SPEAKER_00: And so he said, listen, you should just go where you're treated best.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: And that sucked with me.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I eventually moved as an adult.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I lived in uh Arizona in the U.S.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And I dropped out of college, I started businesses, did a bunch of different things, sold some of them, uh, did pretty well.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: And all the while I was paying all this tax in the U.S.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And I just never felt comfortable, quite frankly.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's one pillar of our industry, right?
4:45
SPEAKER_00: That allows people who just maybe feel like they they weren't born in the right place, right?
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that they can fix that and they have an opportunity.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think people deserve that.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Kind of like people who say that they're born in the wrong body.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, or or I love the movie uh was it Midnight in Paris, where they were like born the wrong generation.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And then but and then you realize, by the way, that like the people in that the Bell Epic era that they wanted to be from a different era.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: But it's the golden age uh fallacy, right?
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: But uh nevertheless, I mean, if you don't feel well where you're at, you should go somewhere else.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it was I don't really feel well here.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting hosed on taxes.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: I eventually kind of put the two together and realized, you know, how does that work if you move overseas?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I started exploring.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and eventually, you know, sold everything I had in the US, sold the last business, uh, and and decided to fully go where I was treated best.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: I've been kind of doing various things and researching and building a network and opening bank accounts and diversifying and what have you, but I decided to fully take the plunge.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: And so I started uh the website about 10 years ago, 11 years ago almost, to just write about it and share the experience.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's been uh obviously uh you know, I hope a lot of people have have uh you know found it inspiring as we're now seeing more Americans than ever coming here to Portugal, going to Mexico, going all over the place.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: You never would have seen that.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: You never would have expected it.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: No, uh even three years ago, right?
6:05
SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't have expected that.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I was saying when Trump was running in 2016, uh, why is it everyone always threatens to move to Canada?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Because I think people, the media, the news media, you know, TV, movies, whatever, they're just like, oh, what was her name in sex in the city?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm moving to Paris.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how?
6:21
SPEAKER_00: How you just show up and we've been waiting for you.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and I said, Yeah, Canada's a lot harder to get into for the average person.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe not for a famous actor, but for the average person, why don't people talk about going to Mexico?
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And lo and behold, Canada's become like an authoritarian cesspool.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And Mexico is a great place.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: It's one of the it's a vibrant place.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: We're having our conference there.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: It's, I mean, I I think you know, people have discovered Mexico is worth talking about.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: You never would have expected that.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Let's dwell on that for a moment, the uh before we move on, that um Canada's become an authoritarian cesspool.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh this is my first sound bite, I think, from from this episode.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh you're referring to the uh freezing of bank accounts of people who supported the truckers, the vaccine mandates, the the no-fly lists.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Which I, you know.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: So I'm no longer a U.S.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: citizen.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: I try to be involved in U.S.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: politics other than sharing my thoughts on taxes and things like that that impact our audience.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I've never been a Canadian citizen.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to comment necessarily on the minutia, but the general direction is yeah, your money isn't yours.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're gonna be in control, you've got to do this, you've got to do that.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: There's just fewer freedoms in general.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: And look at the United States, by the way, it's the exact same thing.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's on both sides now.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: You have people in the United States who are saying, uh, Roe v.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Wade, like what are you talking about?
7:37
SPEAKER_00: We're getting rid of Roe v.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Wade.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And you have people on the other side who are talking about issues on the right.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's happy.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: And maybe in Canada, more it's the left that's happy than the right, but nobody's happy.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: And you're seeing people that the veneer is cracking of what I call the legacy brand countries.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And when everybody says, uh, oh, well, look at all the Salvadorians who want to come here, uh, I have a lot of respect for what those people are doing, and I understand that um there's a certain necessity created by the countries that they're coming to, like the United States, of why they have so many problems in their own country.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: But the fact that someone who can't, you know, is escaping violence and trying to eke out a living is coming to the United States or coming to Canada, that doesn't prove the point that these countries are better.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: It proves that they still have some economic firepower.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: But in every other metric, they're doing very badly.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And I we've seen so many Canadians calling.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: It's been incredible.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: You mentioned um obviously part of your origin story is that your father said, son, go where you're treated best, and that stuck with you.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, two questions related to that.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Number one, did your father act on that uh ever?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Or did he stay where he was treated just okay?
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean so he's been on our channel.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: We have the Nomad Dad, right?
8:49
SPEAKER_00: And people love the Nomad Dad.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh he was a guy, I mean, I think you understand this probably better than a lot of people, was a very honorable guy, very loyal guy.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: He felt like, you know, am I gonna do this to my family?
9:01
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pack up.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to go to New Zealand, he wanted to go to Australia, he wanted to go to Chile.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, some of those countries are starting to turn now, but he would have been right for what, 25 years or so.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think he thought it was too disruptive.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think that he thought back then it was you just move everything.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: He literally called the place where he had kind of a business relationship with and said, uh, I'm gonna open this up down to New Zealand.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah, we don't do that.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And you know, today you can start a business online, uh, you can have your banking in Singapore, you can live, I mean, you can be diversified.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: Back then it was just like, let's move everything from the US to New Zealand.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And then I think that was a scarier prospect than dip a toe in here, where's the best banking?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Where's the best place to live?
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Like diversify, don't just go from one frying pan to the next.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And so uh the barriers are much lower now.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: The barriers are much lower.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and but by the way, I mean, they are uh they are spending about half their time down in uh Mexico now.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: And uh down Mexico way they're down in Mexico and they like it a lot.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: All right, amazing.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: So the corollary to that question about you know your origin and your influences, your father obviously, in part, has been an influence.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh do you have any other people you would mention as having had a strong influence on your thinking in business, in philosophy, maybe a favorite author, something like this?
10:18
SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting question.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: I I I and I don't say that, I think this is actually a negative, that I haven't had enough influences over the years.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I've largely done stuff alone.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I haven't been in masterminds, I haven't had groups, as you can imagine, you know, running a business outside of the United States.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh where I'm at, you know, in Malaysia, um, you know, perhaps the Malaysian Chinese have businesses, not really the kind of circles that I'm able to run in.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, in Georgia, what have you.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm, you know, in some of these places, I think I probably have the best business knowledge among most people, or you're not running the local circle.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: So I really haven't had a lot of influences.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: I certainly look at people outside of business and outside of our space for sure.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: I would never want to have influences in a space.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's a good idea.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: I think if you want to be better, you need to look at what's better.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: So I look at people like uh I loved Bob Iger's book, for example, the former CEO of Disney.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: Great book.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we don't agree on everything, but very, you know, motivational guy.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I look at people like a Tom Ford, look at media characters, um, you know, Glenn Beck, for example, in my very early years in the United States.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I look at kind of different people for helping to shape the way I communicate, um, which I think is very important in this business.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: I think this business could communicate a lot better, uh, especially being somewhat of a controversial industry.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: Better clear communication.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: What are the communication mistakes that people in this business are making?
11:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's enough communication.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very tepid, I think it's very diplomatic in many regards.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: I think people are looking for real.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: One of the other things my father said way back, if we were talking 15, 20 years ago, he said there's gonna come a time when you're gonna have some like a wild man that's gonna run and they're gonna become the president of the US.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, how?
11:58
SPEAKER_00: They don't have people want they want a politician, they want someone who's politically correct, they want someone who follows the protocol.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: There's there's gonna come a time nobody will care.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Right?
12:06
SPEAKER_01: He called it.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: And so you're you're in that era now.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: People don't care.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: Now you can you can look at a guy like Trump and say he's going too far with it.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And you can say, listen, I don't agree with everything Trump says.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: People think I'm some right-wing guy, and that's that's hardly the case.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh but he's honest, or at least he seems honest.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I I think that he's honest in the sense he's a very moody and mercurial guy, he just says what comes to his mind.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: But people respect that because it's not calculated.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's far too much calculation.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's forces, obviously, in this industry, where people are trying to be very disingenuous in shutting down RCBI programs.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Do you think you and Trump in that sense uh being someone who speaks their mind not being calculating, you have that in common?
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know that I I don't know that I'm at the level that Trump is.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so there's a difference in degree, but not in kind necessarily.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a difference in uh I mean I I I think that I have some filter, and I and again I I think that obviously being international softens some of the beliefs that a more, you know, uh a patriotic, let's call it, politician would have.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so there's more nuance to my opinions just because of the nature of the that we're in a very international space and you get to know people and you it's you don't make the stereotypes that you might make as a politician.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Um but no, I I think people I think people need to be more direct.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: For the longest time, people looked and they said, why would you want to sell this to Americans?
13:37
SPEAKER_00: That's the stupidest thing ever.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: Right?
13:39
SPEAKER_00: And now it's like the number one market of all time.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: And you look back and say, well, you know, maybe at a point, Americans, that's the place to be.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: Americans, Canadians.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: That's my audience, right?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: And it was a very niche audience because everyone was in Dubai.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: First of all, I don't want to be in places like Dubai, I don't want to be in the free consultation racket.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it, I don't think it serves the client or the potential client, because they're not many of them, many of them never become clients.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: They just go around town getting 18 different free consultations and then they do nothing.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: How is that serving anybody to let them do nothing?
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I don't want to be there.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: But also I just I think that um I'm not gonna comment on on all the all the you know selling in in some of those other markets.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: But for me, as a more Western-focused brand, uh, yeah, people are tired of the spin, they're tired of diplomacy, they're tired of things being couched, especially the people looking for this stuff.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying be a wild man and go out attacking people and and hooting and hollering and doing all that stuff.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying speak your mind, share what you think.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, our benefit of what we do, I think, is we spend all these years building the network.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: So we're not really a service provider in the sense of uh we're not writing tax memos or I mean, we we we're the layer on top that consolidates things and gives people the holistic nature of it, uh, which I think is important, especially for a Westerner with tax considerations.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: It's just all it's one-stop shopping.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I just think that um you know, for that market, you just you just you just have to be more outspoken.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: That's all I think.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: People who don't know you like I do, uh, don't know this about you, but you do an amazing Trump impersonation.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh you want to give it a shot?
15:14
SPEAKER_00: I I maybe we'll see it sometime.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I hope it comes up.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll do a tease like a like a morning uh radio show.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: We'll tease that'll come up at some point.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Um Andrew, over the last 10 years, you said almost 11.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh you've built what's arguably the most recognizable brand in investment migration.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: It goes beyond investment migration, of course, but yeah, we're not just in I mean it's it's it's hard to line up, right?
15:38
SPEAKER_01: I want to emphasize that, but you know, what it what am I gonna say?
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Offshore uh global citizenship.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: You've built the most recognizable brand, arguably, uh, in global citizenship.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: If we can call that a domain.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: You've close to a million social media followers, maybe it's more, uh, which is an order of magnitude greater than anybody else in this space.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Um what do you think it is about your work in particular that resonates with so many people?
16:08
SPEAKER_00: I think it is the realness.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it is I mean, listen, I I think it's having a savvy.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that I see around the internet, um you know, the the haters, let's talk about the haters, it's uh it's like, oh, they're just good at marketing.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And people would say that about me.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: By the way, it was funny.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I look back, we had haters before we ever asked for a dime from anybody.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: It was just a blog.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: I was just building it up and sharing knowledge and just, you know, getting some credibility.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, even back then.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think that maybe maybe that leads to some of the diplomacy in with certain people where it's just like they're afraid of what someone's gonna say or what some politician's gonna say.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm not afraid of what some politicians are gonna say.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: All right, believe me.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: But I I I it certainly is being good at marketing and knowing what are the trends, how to turn things into trends.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of our most popular, I think it's the second most popular video was what happens if Joe Biden gets elected.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: It did relatively well for, I don't know, some number of months leading up to the election.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh being topical is one of them.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, but right.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: But then what happened was you're almost kind of foreshadowing because when when I was in I was in Belgrade, when it finally, after a couple of days, was called for Joe Biden, everyone started looking that up and it just went went viral, it went nuts.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And so you want to be on top of what the trends are and what could be coming up.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and again, that just that just speaks to getting out of the comfort zone and having an opinion.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: No one wants to watch what happens if Joe Biden wins and someone's like, hello, uh, this is uh we're gonna to uh to you know today.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: You you gotta you gotta have a you gotta have an opinion.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And you can't be afraid of an opinion.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: And I listen, I don't think I'm very I'm a very opinionated person, and I'm sure there's some people I'm I'm far too much on one side or something like that.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that I'm the most I don't I don't think it's Trump.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm Trump.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: I I don't think we go that far.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: I think that I think there's a great nuance.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: People want an opinion, and they want, and so they want an opinion, they want the directors, but you have to know like where the trend is going.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: You have to kind of foreshadow where the trend is going.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: But I think also what sets you apart uh from most other people is that you you live the life right now.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: I suppose that's an element that there's an there's an authenticity, right?
18:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't necessarily like to I don't talk about it very often, but yeah, I mean if if you're like selling a newsletter on how to live the offshore life and escape the uh you know, what do they call it, the USSA or something, that's your pitch, where's your office?
18:33
SPEAKER_00: Pompano Beach, Florida.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm they trust you a little bit less.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's an authenticity that people uh look at.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't buy diet books from bad people, right?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: No, yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's valuable.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and I I think a lot of people in the RCBI space have that story, right?
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And and I think the other thing for me was um, you know, you lived in China and you worked in China.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't I I spent a lot of time in China in my early time overseas, and I got to know someone about the culture, but that's a hard culture, I think, to do business in.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: And so my thing was, even though I thought at the beginning of this, hey, maybe it's easier to sell to people in China, and I would have preferred to sell, the the exoticism of selling to people in China would have been more interesting to me.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: I realized I know this market, I know the US, I know the Western market, and it turned out to be a great growth market.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And you had it to yourself for many weeks.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and now that's changing.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: How does that make you feel?
19:31
SPEAKER_01: People are coming now, and all of a sudden they've discovered the market that you've been in all along.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the nature of business.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're gonna be you're gonna be copied.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're gonna be um you're gonna have competition.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think people who follow it understand the authenticity and understand.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have what, over two, I think 2,000 videos at this point on YouTube.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: We put out a new video every day.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: We've been doing them uh for a number of years.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: We have blog posts going back to 2012, maybe those have been scrubbed, but 2013.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Um so I think people realize that we were here and I've been talking about this.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: We've been saying the same message for for many years.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh listen, again, whether you like him or not, what caused people uh to like Trump?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: You go back to the 1980s, the Japanese, they're taking advantage of us very badly.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's just the same you may hate the message, yeah, but people go back and you look and you say, okay, maybe Trump you know believes in this and has a point.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Um one question I want to ask you that's a little bit uh off topic is uh I don't know if you heard of the late psychologist Mihali Tsikent Mihali who came up with the much more read well-read person than I am, in all honesty.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, am I?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: You're a very studious fellow.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: I went to college.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh well you've heard of the concept of flow, maybe.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Flow states, right?
20:51
SPEAKER_01: That's his.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Um so that's just for the audience who doesn't they might not know it.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: A flow state is kind of a pleasant state during which you're fully immersed in what you're doing.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh and that's often where people do their best work.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: What when are you in a flow state?
21:10
SPEAKER_00: For me, I think, and this is maybe where the marketing comes in.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: I think um, well, I I I'm I'm on it when I'm when I'm doing content.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: That's what I enjoy.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Videos.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And and to yeah, well, content.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I I used to I write I used to write blogs.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Right, but it's different, right?
21:24
SPEAKER_01: There's two very different types of content.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: So are you which which one is more close to your the essence of who you are?
21:30
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's changed over time.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: When I was a kid, I always wanted to write.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: I wrote the book, Nomad Capitalist, on Amazon.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I wrote it all myself.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: We got someone helping me edit it, but I wrote it all myself because it was a passion of mine since I was seven years old to write a book.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so it I think it changed over time.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: I think I realized that the market was going towards video.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Now everything is video.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Instagram, Facebook, everything is video now.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Nobody wants to read anything anymore.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh ironically, I think that actually there are places where they do want to read.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I think we look at Germans, for example, are much more likely to come from the website.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: There's a great book by the way, surrounded by idiots.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: They like to break people down into red, blue, yellow, and green.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: And so people who are blue who like lots of information, uh lots of those in Germany?
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Blues?
22:12
SPEAKER_00: I I do I I think we've done a good job.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Like in Europe, we we've done very well.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: People who are more blue, who are more they just want they enjoy the process.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And so they enjoy reading something rather than just kind of hearing my style.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit meandering.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: I think it's different.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: I think for me, uh talking things out and and and listening helps me absorb a lot faster.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm in flow doing the content.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the message behind that is Um marketing and organic marketing and authentic marketing is important.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And and look, I mean, I think our biggest year was 20 million people reached across everything.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Um what does that mean reached?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's website sessions, that's unique YouTube viewers looked at a quarterly basis.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: I think we did some estimates on, you know, we did a few around Fox Business or something, you know.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: All right, that's 50,000 people.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: We reached, I don't know, somewhere around 20 million people that year.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: That's a result of doing marketing.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And so how many of those folks?
23:10
SPEAKER_00: What I like to look at is if you hold back, could you look the people that you are missing in the eye and say, hey, you never went where you were treated best, for example, you never accomplished the thing that I'm helping people with.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: If I genuinely believe in it, you're not going to get there because I chose to play small and not wanted to market, right?
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Not wanted to be a marketer, as the people, as people say.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I'm proud of running a sales and marketing organization, right?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: We don't sell people who shouldn't be sold.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: We have, quite frankly, I think, I think we should be like the lifetime achievement award, by the way, this industry for the all the people who come who can't become our client, who then go and filter their way through the rest of the business.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think there should be, you know, recognition.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: But let's talk a little bit about that.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: But the super selective about your clients.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: We're very selective, yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So uh tell me a little bit about that thinking.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh you you obviously cast an enormously wide net.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think we ever thought we're casting an enormously wide network.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: No, but just put this out.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: By virtue of having such a an enormous social media following.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that we ever said our goal is to have an enormous social media following.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: No, but it's a consequence of the work that you've done, right?
24:20
SPEAKER_01: The value of the work.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: People, I guess people connected with it worked, and so they're fine.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: And so uh of course you're gonna have to filter, all right, who you take on as classic.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Which is hard, yeah.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: So how do you do that?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh we have an application process.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: So people go through it.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, one of the things we look for is people who just are unpleasant.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: So I've largely stepped back at this point from you know, doing stuff.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: I've spent years and years training people uh who are now in many respects better than I am.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: We have a network, as I said, of all the lawyers and accountants and all those people around the world.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: But it's a very unique business because it's not just RCBI, which passports best.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we do about six different kinds of citizenship.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and we combine it with taxes, where you're good, where you're leaving, where you're going.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: And we work with a lot of US citizens.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: We do some expatriation uh help.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, we do a lot of different diverse stuff.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and so, yeah, we have to be selective.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: It's partially about can we help the person?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: It's partially about if we want to help the person, which is, you know, obviously, I, you know, it was originally for me in that like I don't want to have people who are hooting and hollering either.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's also about finances because what we do in running uh a wide research organization, I mean, we spend a lot of money on research every year.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: We're getting back to putting people in planes going around the world, it's it's very unique.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: And so the cost to run that, it's a higher cost than just you know opening up an office and saying, hey, do you want to come and you know get tax advice or do you want to come and get a passport?
25:46
SPEAKER_00: And so there's no Walmart version of that.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, I don't think there should be a Walmart version of that, right?
25:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I don't know that um a person who's a$60,000 a year digital nomad, and it's the same advice as someone who makes a million dollars a year running an ad agency online.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: No, they don't.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And so I I'm I'm I'm proud of that.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously there are people who don't who who wish we had a service.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: That's why we rolled at the event, by the way.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Nomad Capital is live.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Anyone can come.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: That is, uh I call it the Prada Keychain.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Remember like 25 years ago, I think it was Prada or Louis Vuitton, whatever, they started selling keychains for 300 euros so that anyone who couldn't afford a bag could could still come to the store and they could capture that customer, and the customer could feel like part of the process.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: And and um, so that's what we do with that.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we we don't uh we don't work with a lot of folks.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: It's not like we we get rid of people on purpose.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: One of one of the things I look at in other parts of our space, you know, I'll call private banks, either myself or the team has called them to send clients.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, do you have five million dollars?
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, all right, leave us alone.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Or they get back to you in a week.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: I it was, I think it was a Counts Bank in the UK.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: You fill out their online form.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you have three million pounds?
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, look, we endeavor to get back to you within five to seven days.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: If I got three million pounds to put in your bank, I ain't waiting five to seven days.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: And so um I think that uh you don't want to be selective, but you want to have the best service.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: We touched briefly on how the American market has become very big uh the last couple of years, right?
27:17
SPEAKER_01: I think it started around COVID.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a combination of Americans finding out, oh, my passport's not all that.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: It was it was like Rwanda at one point, basically.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: It was the same level as Rwanda.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in terms of visa-free travel.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: So it was partly was that that was the impetus for the American awakening to investment migration possibilities.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: So the the reduction in visa-free travel, but then you also had uh the spectrum of higher taxes under Biden, then you had the high crypto prices.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: High crypto prices.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, but yeah, the loss of freedoms has been kind of a gradual thing over many, many years, right?
27:51
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a a one-time.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: But people say, like, oh, I'll leave when things get bad enough.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you've been watching things this century, I mean they've gotten a lot worse.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's the whole boiling fry.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: So turn up the heat just a little bit every every year.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: That's why I focused again on, by the way, speaking of a successful clientele.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: All right, fine.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Listen, you don't want to move, you don't want to do what I'm doing.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, to being more settled living in my own properties.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: But um, okay, fine.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to even live overseas at all.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Hey, all right, get this passport, get this bank account, get this trust, you know, do whatever it is that you that you should do.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think it's a good way to introduce Westerners to all right, just dip a toe in.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: And some people will take it further, and some people will just stop at having a passport under their belt, and okay, I feel good now.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: But but but okay, a lot of those push factors that came to a head in 2020, like COVID, like uh the election of uh a lefty, those factors are not as present anymore.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Um so do you think that this this rise in interest among Americans was a flash in the pan, or is it something more permanent that's gonna stay?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: I think anything like that has some flash in the pan nature to it.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it reaches a boiling point and then it and then it cools off.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you have people who are very aware of this.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um certainly crypto interest is down.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: We've seen resurgent interest from folks who are just like, yeah, I want to save on taxes.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: The dust has settled, right?
29:27
SPEAKER_00: They now feel free to travel.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: We have people who like they didn't want to travel during the pandemic.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: We had a great friend of mine in Canada said, I'm not leaving until the pandemic's over, but I would love to go and lower my taxes.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: But I don't want to like be involved in the circus and get sick, whatever.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I think that the genie's out of the bottle for those people.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Some of the crypto folks maybe need to regroup and come back a little bit later, but I think the genie's out of the bottle.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: And so um what's happened though is the easy money that happens you know early in any kind of um you know, flash in the pan like that, I think it's over.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: We have to be, you know, you have to fight more.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a point to be diversified, right?
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Um if all you do is serve crypto people and all you do is sell them passports.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean I've seen I we've had to clean up some of the messes from some of those kind of folks where it's like, oh, only St.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Lucia has this one.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's not true.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's where the holistic or oh, if don't worry, you get this passport and your American taxes are solved.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's some really bad advice going on out there from people who just want to sell passports.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: And um I I I think that those folks are gonna get washed out.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: You're also talking about diversifying your your own offering.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Where do you think that the best opportunities for say uh horizontal integration are for people who are in investment migration?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Is it moving into also offering solutions around trusts or as as we spoke with uh uh Benjamin Ludbell about last week, asset protection?
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Um where where do you see the most overlap?
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's I it's a very difficult business, what we run.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh it is in it is in intense.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: It is um, I mean, it's it's um looking at our growth over the last couple of years, I look back and say, how do we do that while maintaining the accuracy, while increasing you know satisfaction?
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Um 2021, I mean, first year 99% plus.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you in your line of work, you can't move fast and break things, right?
31:28
SPEAKER_01: You can move fast, but you mustn't do that.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: We do move fast.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: We do move very fast.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we've moved incredibly fast, but obviously you have to be careful and you have to be, and that's why I mean it's spent been years training people and and because everything we do is from the ground up.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: So I can't just go and say, hey, I'm gonna hire a bunch of R C BI people.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh because it's like, okay, do you know taxed, you know, this, you know, that.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: And so you have to really bring in people who who can, you know, can develop that.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: And maybe they have the credentials, but and you also don't want to bring bring in people who are maybe too set in their ways and bring bad habits with the other thing.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: No, that's not yeah, absolutely.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And it well, I mean, one of the things that we see is um people say, Yeah, I I live in Australia or I live in Canada, or I live in wherever.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: I talk to my accountant about what if I move my business and what if I move to Dubai?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, ah, you can't really do that, that doesn't work.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so much advice that's just bad.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so much advice of you can't do that.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And people are like, no, of course I can do that.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh and so they'll they'll come to us.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think from my my perspective is very simple.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: The stuff doesn't work in a vacuum, right?
32:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't nobody has an itch for for an Antigua passport in particular.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Why why are you trying to do that?
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: And people get so caught up in the the pageantry of which beach they want to go to, and like they get caught up in the shiny object, uh, both the purveyors in this industry, but also the the customers.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm just I'm just opposed to that.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: But yet I don't know that a lot of people would want to run the incredibly, I mean it's it's incredibly difficult, honestly.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And uh how we've grown, we we've kind of taken this opportunity this year to be a bit more um a little bit slower growth uh compared to the the whirlwind years of the last you know two years, uh, and and really kind of dial some of that stuff in to be a little bit less hectic.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Um because because helping people from I don't know how many different dozens of countries last year go to dozens of countries and maintaining all the vendor relationships and maintaining all that uh and having it all come up pretty well in the end, um, that's that's a challenge.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: I in a sense I can see why it's easier just to say, hey, come in for your free consultation.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: But uh my advice is to not offer free consultations.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I I suppose people feel they need to do that just to get any business, just to get started, right?
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: You're a marketing first guy.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: No, well, uh, I mean, yeah, I listen, I I started in business um because I didn't I didn't know anybody.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I had a good you know background growing up, but I didn't know anybody, I didn't have any startup capital.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: I just started cold calling people, my very first business.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I was in the broadcasting industry, and I just started cold calling people, and I think that that's that's somewhat lacking today in in the business.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Now, it's harder to call cons cold call consumers these days, and I wasn't doing that even back then, but um uh yeah, I think that here's a here's the sales tip I would give you.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Um there's a great sales trainer, and he would he would say, uh, imagine you want to have a great relationship, you want to get married, right?
34:26
SPEAKER_00: And so you want to have like a strong relationship, but you're not confident you can get married yet.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: So what you're gonna go out is you're gonna go out in the marketplace and you're going to have a lot of cheap relationships so that the word gets out, right?
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna have free consultations, I'm gonna serve, let the word get out, right?
34:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have a bunch of cheap relationships so that the word gets out in the marketplace, and then I'm gonna find my my everlasting, properly valued relationship.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work that way.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: No, right?
34:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you if you now there's probably a lot of people who, yeah, they should be giving free consultations because they don't know what they're doing, right?
34:56
SPEAKER_00: Like uh, oh, uh only St.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Lucia has this one or that one, or only this one has this.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: It's not true.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you maybe you should be giving free consultations because your advice is worth less than zero.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: But if you know what you're doing, not giving any consultation at all.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they should the best service value to the client.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they should pay you.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: To give you advice.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Um look, Andrew, you you're a man uh who has uh let's say a life that's too big for any single country or even any single continent.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Um you own a number of homes around the world.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Um we don't have to, I mean, unless you want to.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to reveal where you have your homes.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sure people come look at it.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's no great secrets.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I'll come look you up.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: I'll just watch two thousand videos, you'll figure it out.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: All right.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: So uh we're talking uh Kuala Lumpur, Medellin, Kuala, Bogota, and then largely in Eastern Europe.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh Belgrade, uh, Montenegro, Georgia, and Turkey, yeah, Istanbul.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: And Istanbul.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:04
SPEAKER_01: So um you and you spend considerable time in each of them.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh some many of them, but not all of them.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Not all of them.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh some more than others.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: But how do you how do you pick where to locate uh these bases that you have?
36:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, important factors are things like okay, uh lifestyle, weather, uh uh cost of living, taxes.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: What are the what are the things, what are the elements in the place that you emphasize?
36:31
SPEAKER_00: There should be some in general, there should be some RCBI element, whether it's a direct RCBI or whether it helps something else I'm doing with RCBI, what have you.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean we have business, we have we have three offices, um, three main offices with the with you know, kind of back office in uh Belgrade, Tbilisi, and Yerevan.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Um my wife is second home with Tbilisi.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I have a lot of friends there.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So it's friends, it's business, it's um RCBI friendly.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Most of them are tax friendly.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Even Bogota, if you're not there, um it's a bit uh pretty simplified tax code.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: I think that'll continue under the current under the current guidance.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be worse if you're in the system, but I don't think the system will suck more people in, is my my initial thought.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think that people, I think that people are maybe overblowing how bad he's gonna be.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm wrong.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I I I uh yeah, Columbia was a great RCBI play.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: I guess they're getting rid of that program.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: But it was for me, I wasn't aware.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna, yeah, it's just straight real estate, I think it's gonna be it's gonna be a longer, drawn-out process.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, in like in Latin America, if I had to, if I had to remove one third of the world, that's probably where it would be.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Just coming from the US, it's a little bit too similar.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: Um and and so it was for me, it was Mexico City versus Boca Ta.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Buenos Aires, I guess, is equal, but it's too far away.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And so those are the two choices.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Colombia's an RCBI program, and I'll do it.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Mexico, I guess, is a program, but it's more focused on spending time there.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: So that was the choice.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, Eastern Europe is just a place that's had a lot of business, personal, social connections for the years.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: Kualumpur was kind of my first base.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, they're they're mostly tax-friendly, RCBI friendly places.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I I thought you would I'll tell you the place I'm looking at now.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: I am looking at I've loved it for many years.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: I've loved spending time in Ireland.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: I think it's an underrated RCBI destination.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: I get a lot of people that I talk to are like, ah, but the weather's terrible.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, sorry, it was unclear when you said Ireland.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Ireland, yeah.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Ireland.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: I think Ireland is a place that really deserves to get a lot more attention, honestly.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Um you've got a favorable tax system for many people.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not as favorable for citizenship.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: But their non-DOM is practically the same as in the UK, right?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: I think they follow the UK in some of the stuff.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: And there's some areas where the UK is also nebulous, like certain crypto stuff, but I think they're more I think it's more flexible.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: And the UK being much more difficult to get into these days.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: I I think Ireland has numerous different routes, both investment-based and just, hey, I'm running a business, or hey, I'm retired with some money.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: I think there's numerous ways to get in there.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: The citizenship is harder, but if you're someone who's native English, yeah, that's a softer landing for a lot of folks.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people who are new to this, the Americans, for example, the Canadians who are stepping out, you know, for me, Malaysia is pretty reasonable.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, people are very nice, you know, uh, but it's far away.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of, you know, what a lot of problems.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: So I think that you know, Mexico has much the same culture as the US, but Ireland has much the same, you know, it's the same language, essentially.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's not talked about enough as a soft landing for folks who speak English.
39:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: It's more expensive, but obviously with the Schengen opt-out and and the non-DOM program and the fact that the passport is perhaps the best in the EU, maybe it's worth it.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: You're saying it's perhaps the best in the EU because it's part of the common travel area in addition to being EU?
39:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's a benefit for a lot of people.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Especially seeing that the UK is so is so difficult these days.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: No, I agree.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh Ireland is uh by the way, it's so it's so neutral.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: I I look at Ireland.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, they they they hopped on with the global minimum tax, but uh I mean, look at the one country that didn't hungry, they're getting pummeled by the US with the taxes, with the uh visa-free for like all my Serbian uh friends who may have Hungarian ancestry.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: They're now lumped in with a bunch of criminals.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: They can't get they can't even get a visa waiver.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, you know, Ireland's one of the more, I think, tax-friendly.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Like they they believe in that as a place, it's a smaller country, which I like.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so I think there's a lot of benefits to it, not just the CTA.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: Talking about European countries and and tax benefits, uh, a lot of people find Europe romantic as a as a destination.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: The problem is the high taxes.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: I for me that's the case.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh people talk about the culture.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: You don't understand.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: We have so much culture here.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't talk about that.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: I I I like the the lifestyle.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: I like the lifestyle, I find I find it, I find it charming.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's very lefty and it's very, you know, it's it's uh it's becoming antiquated, and and I get all that.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: No place There's a lot more competition for sure.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: More competition.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, in a sense, this is what I call a legacy brand, right?
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Why why why do you why are you drinking a Coca-Cola, not an RC Cola?
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Because you know Coca-Cola, it's been it's been it's been put in your mind for your entire life.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Kualumpur Malaysia has not been put in your mind.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Most people couldn't even find.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember had someone who came to work for us many, many years ago, and their grandparents were like looking with like a magnifying glass on a map, like, where's Malaysia?
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Right?
41:18
SPEAKER_00: And so you've heard of these, like, how many people do RCBI to Canada or something, like just because, oh, I know Canada, that's the good one.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Just the same way you go to the grocery store and there's 20 brands of ketchup and you buy Heinz, right?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: The marketing is is mediocre.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: That's why I loved uh Mikhail Stakish feeling in Georgia.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm gonna run ads and I'm gonna I'm gonna like be like we want your business in Georgia.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did that very successfully.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: But you have so much more competition at that point.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: So like 20 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, where else would you go?
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: But now you have a lot of choices.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh but what I wanted to ask about so, okay, I live in Europe because you know I have friends, I have family here, I I want to be close to them.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, nobody likes me, so I don't have to worry about it I don't have to worry about that.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we're both misanthropes to some extent, I think.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: But uh what I was gonna ask you about that is uh there it is possible to live uh a low-tax lifestyle in an in otherwise high-tax European countries.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh notably in Southern Europe, there's a number of them.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh you can do it in with Nandom in Ireland, the UK.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Can you highlight two or three um of these special regimes that you think are particularly favorable?
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Worth taking a look at?
42:36
SPEAKER_00: I think, I mean, obviously, Portugal's is getting a lot of attention with the NHR.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a little bit overblown because someone like me, who has already established offshore infrastructure, is gonna have more things to change.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be changing a corporate structure.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, you know what?
42:48
SPEAKER_00: If you said, again, look at Ireland, you're gonna have to pay something, you're gonna pay a lot more than the average person.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to pay it.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I like?
42:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to have to go through collecting 80,000 documents.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Right?
42:59
SPEAKER_00: And so when you when you when you do the NHR, there's more restrictions, there's more work.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: I'd almost rather pay something and not have the work.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: I think to pay one, two, three, five percent on a on a big company, all right, fine.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: People would do that.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: They don't want the hassle.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: So Portugal to me, if you make more than a couple million bucks, it's really not it's worth it.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Um Italy, I suppose, doesn't get enough love.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Lump sum?
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the lump sum in Italy.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh I guess Greece, I never really do much with Greece.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a bit more complicated, lump sum.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Switzerland, I think, is is complicated and almost seems like very legacy.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Um like it's just again, like back when there was no competition.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think, I think, I mean the UK, if you have a if you have a way to get in, but I think Ireland, I mean, I think it's really a great program.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: I think that they're they're friendly.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: I I I remember going to Ireland uh with somebody well over a dozen years ago now, and they were they were a resident and they had to go like do something to renew their residence permit.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: We just walked in, and coming from the US, you would just stop someone in the hallway and they would help you.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: The level of help you got there compared to the bureaucracy I see in other places.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: In Europe, and certainly where I'm from, the US, was really just very down to earth and seemed very helpful.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: So I think the tax agency there is kind of the same way.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a good one.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and by the way, I mean, for those who like Eastern Europe, I think Serbia and Montenegro have much more flexible systems where your companies don't get treated the same way they would in the EU.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Georgia has a couple good regimes.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's obviously further east.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: Armenia, if you're just starting out, you've had a small company as a number of incentives.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Or even inside the EU, right?
44:27
SPEAKER_01: Romania, Bulgaria.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Romania, but Romania just changed that, so now it's it was cut in half.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: We literally put out a video on that, like the day that they uh they cut it from what is it, a million to uh I think was it 500 or 512 or something?
44:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean if it here's my thing.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I talk about saving tax is you don't just save the tax.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: Number one, you you reinvest that money into the business, into whatever you want to reinvest it into.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: But there's a feeling of empowerment that you know you're no longer wasting your time looking for deductions and making that the focus of your business.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: You're just all in and you're like, wait a second, I'm keeping 97% of this uh this this juice.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm gonna great, all full speed ahead.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: I think people could four, five, six X their income, besides just other factors of growing your business by moving offshore because you're so much more motivated.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: And so Yeah, and just freeing up your mind.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Right.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: No, it's so inorganic.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: People sit around.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: I I had a guy once, and in a lot of countries, you're not even supposed to do this, right?
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I I bought like, you know, a million tons of paper clips on December 29th.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, you're you're gonna eventually you're gonna have too many paper clips, and you're not gonna have this to do anymore.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: And like this is where you're devoting your effort, is how to save money.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, how about how to make more money?
45:43
SPEAKER_00: And I think that you'll do that when you move.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: By the way, why are immigrants in so in countries so much more successful in many cases?
45:49
SPEAKER_00: There's an intentionality to it, right?
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that like necessarily, oh, people from this country are better.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: No, but there's an there's an intentionality of they decided to be different.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: They decided to take a stand, they decided to go where they're treated best, they picked up steak, they did, they had the courage to do it, others won't.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they're self-selected, and they moved somewhere else.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: It's a self-selective group of people who are dedicated to success.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: So there's the intentionality of that combined with the the feelings of I'm keeping a lot more of my money, and you get rid of this dread that so many Westerners feel like, ah, what am I working for at some point?
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 50 cents on the dollar for a what?
46:24
SPEAKER_01: Right.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And now, look at like uh in California, for example, even liberals like Bill Maher are talking about how it costs$800,000 to build a place for a homeless person to live.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: A homeless person,$800,000.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: And you think there's no waste, fraud, and abuse?
46:43
SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm a liberal, but I don't want to keep paying more taxes.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: It's enough.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh just before we end up, um, you're organizing Nomad Capitalist Live.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: And next month in Mexico City, uh, you've got a star-studded lineup, so I would say uh it includes Doug Casey, Max Kaiser, Mark Moss, Adam Carolla, Nigel Farage.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: Nigel Farage, yeah.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Nigel Farage, wow.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and a bunch of others.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just wanted to give you a chance to pitch it.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh, explain, you know, what's uh No Med Capitalist Live for, who is it for, and what are should people get out of what should they expect to get out of it?
47:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think networking is very important.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: One thing I see at all of our events is people like that.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Finally, someone agrees with them.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: This is, I think, what we've tapped into perhaps at No Made Capitalist is a certain sense of community and helping people like in business, for example, I love to read books from like, oh my god, I thought it was the only person who thought that.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, that's what it's called?
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And then you end up building on that because you have that kind of solidarity.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: That's what we do with the event because people are out there.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: My friends think I'm a I'm a freak.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: My family is like, why are you going?
47:55
SPEAKER_00: Does that second pass for I don't understand?
47:58
SPEAKER_00: And they come and you've got hundreds of people who are all like you.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's four days of us sharing a lot of RD.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: We do have the keynotes like Nigel Farage and and the American Canadian named Carol, who's been who's been harping on uh the whole California exit thing, and uh, you know, the Bitcoin uh uh uh Max Kaiser.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh there's some entertainment, yeah, some great food, there's some great research, all the stuff that we're researching.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: Great hotel.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh good hotel, great at Polanco, Mexico City.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't get any better than that.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we don't do them in the U.S.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh people, why don't you do it in the U.S.?
48:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, people in this industry will understand.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh we're hiring in places, I'm not looking to get you know 30 US visas.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Um and and you know, I'm I'm probably not number one on their uh Christmas list myself.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, Mexico's treated us very well uh in most ways.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, we get a tax incentive for hosting events there.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, you know, I I think it's a great city.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: I want people to explore it.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: And and I want people to see, and I'm glad people are starting to see, you can you can run into trouble anywhere.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: But if you live, you know, uh a safe lifestyle, uh I get a Mexico, I walk around at all hours of the day, Mexico City, Guadalajara, all over the place.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any problems.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any problems.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I Bogota, same thing.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh I want people to to kind of get out of the uh the the narrat the media narrative of the West because the Western media, I don't want to get I'm not I'm not too down this rabbit hole, but the Western media is very focused on they gotta keep people in.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they gotta maintain that.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: Legacy brand.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Legacy brand has to be maintained.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: By the way, uh I was in Milan a couple months ago.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, what they're charging for hotels in Milan these days.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, 120 euros to be driven one kilometer because the taxi drivers are on strike.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: And I say to myself, yeah, the people are fashionable.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: There's some okay food.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't, I think, you know, I don't I don't entirely get it.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, you can't find someplace in Eastern Europe that has the same 50% of the population being grouchy, right?
50:18
SPEAKER_00: And the same, like, I just I don't get it.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't get why I'm like, I wanted to get it.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: Dublin?
50:23
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: I love Dublin.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: No, listen, that's a personal choice.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Some will disagree.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: All right, buy a 5 million euro house in uh in Dublin, beautiful Georgian town.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm in.
50:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh buy a 5 million euro apartment in Milan, and you go out, and I'm talking to my tailor who's from there.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: He's like, yeah, half the people are gonna be salty all the time.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, for what?
50:43
SPEAKER_00: What do I need this for?
50:45
SPEAKER_00: Why do I need to pay this price when I can go somewhere else and live for a fraction of the cost?
50:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: With you know, I mean, I just I don't understand it.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: And that's the whole point of the business.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Nothing against Milan.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: In particular, no.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: No, but I just don't understand the value anymore when there's so many options.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: And and personally, I don't really care if people are, all right, let's, you know, live some Tbilisi, isn't it?
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Listen, I'll I'll be fine.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: Right?
51:10
SPEAKER_00: I this this thing where people move, like all the digital nomads who move to Bali, because that's what all the other digital nomads are.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: If you want to move to Bali, great.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing it just because just to fit in, don't do it.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: Like let me be the person to tell you, have some courage to go where you know maybe you actually want to go.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: And for me, that's what I've done.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: No, not a lot of people are going to qualim poor before I was talking about it.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: It was Bangkok, it was Singapore, and now it's doing very well.
51:35
SPEAKER_00: So I think the conference is about not only the conference itself, but helping to kind of shatter some of the expectations people have about some of these places and connect people with that.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: All right, I think we're gonna stop there.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll go for lunch.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Andrew.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's been a pleasure.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: It's always been a great honor.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: That's it for today, folks.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: But we'll be back soon with another episode of the Mobility Standard.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, I encourage you to check out our IMI Connect Istanbul event, where you'll meet not only Andrew Henderson himself, but a whole host of investment migration industry leaders in a unique setting in an Ottoman mansion on the Bosphorus waterfront, followed by an approach.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: I promise you, it'll be like no other event you've ever attended.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: So request your invitation today in the IMI event section.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: I hope to see you there.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.