Latest / Dear Son, / My Emotional Wellness & Healing Journey | Zimbabwe to the UK | Ep 193 | The Dear Son, Show

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My Emotional Wellness & Healing Journey | Zimbabwe to the UK | Ep 193 | The Dear Son, Show · Dear Son,

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: When I tried to have conversations with my father, that were emotive, you know, age 9, age 10, because I was switched on like that.
0:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That is one thing that I looked back on and I'm like, wow, if that was, if I was an adult listening to me, I'd feel a little bit cornered.
0:16
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad would say to me, you know, I'd say to him, so Danny, why did you talk to him on like that?
0:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And did the whatever, I think he turned around to me.
0:23
[SPEAKER_02]: He'd be like, why are you so emotional?
0:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't be so emotional.
0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I'm saying.
0:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not something that I would push or something I'd say, I love from him.
0:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would go and see these young men and be like, right, okay, so,
0:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I'm not the only man in this room who has felt this thing.
0:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I'm not the only bride in this room who's felt like frustration in this way or felt pressed down, you know, and so I'm just what I've what I've found to be a really important quality is just to be curious, curious if somebody is okay, curious about where they are, not coming to conclusions, and even if your assumption is correct,
1:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get to guys, welcome to the Dead Sun Show.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We have meaningful conversations about life through the lens of fatherhood.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It is four fathers.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Those with fathers and the father less, so nobody's left out.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the conversations I want my sons to access as they grow through life in the manhood.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So no topics are off limits today.
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your only host, but we got an amazing treat.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: We are across the pond with it.
1:31
[SPEAKER_01]: My God, a Johnny is in the building, how are you sir?
1:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I am so very good.
1:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Dee Jones, thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
1:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a real honor.
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: The honor is understanding your full name because you said it and I couldn't repeat.
1:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's give you full name to the people.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, so I was born to Miss Johnny David Moyer and I was born in a country called Zimbabwe.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: However, I have known through my work as King Cass Adjani or just simply Adjani.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Zimbabwe.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just below Zambia.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And just above South Africa.
2:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What's next to it?
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my swan.
2:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But swan is there.
2:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's next to it as well.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
2:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Really great geography.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't, I haven't offended for, uh, for Africa, man.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was in corporate, uh, we managed a lot of department of state contracts throughout Africa, like sub to
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The furthest south was probably Malawi, okay.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just took to try and understand the continent.
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I visited a couple of times.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to Djibouti.
2:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to Uganda, Ethiopia, and Rwanda, okay.
2:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was all work trips and I really wanna go back with my family and try to enjoy the continent.
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So what was, how long did you spend in Zimbabwe?
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I grew up there until I was 10 years old and then I moved to the United Kingdom and I've lived here for coming up to 28 years now.
3:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's talk about life in Zimbabwe, man.
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just fascinated in general work from what for what you remember 10 years is a
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have some memories out of magic?
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%, yes.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Life is a bubble was beautiful for me.
3:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It was truly amazing.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I lived in the city of Harade, which is where I was born.
3:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I went to school there.
3:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a very lively, very busy existence on the weekends.
3:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We were in the state at the farm.
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We were very fortunate and blessed to have
3:38
[SPEAKER_02]: that to go to, and we would ride horses, feed the swans, pick fruit from the orchard.
3:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds really idyllic, but it really was like that, and it was pretty nice in terms of lifestyle wise.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And then of course, there's the culture.
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that I'm particularly grateful for from both of my parents is that they gave birth to me in Africa and gave me culture and gave me language.
4:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That is something looking back, having grown up.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: in a dashboard and country from 10 plus that it's a really invaluable component to my identity and I'm so grateful for it.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you mentioned your parents who was in the home all the young.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the beginning, it was my mom and dad and my father worked.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He was a lawyer by trade.
4:23
[SPEAKER_02]: My mother trained as a nurse.
4:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I was born, she was house-wifing it.
4:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was nice like that until we moved to the UK when things changed a little bit.
4:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And the family began to be fragmented.
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And we lived with my father less than less until he was completely moved out when I was 14.
4:41
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, he left the UK to go back to Zimbabwe, and then so from 14 until I left home, my mother was the captain of the ship thereafter.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're on the show?
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm the third of four children, my parents had four children.
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: My father had children previously, but my mom and dad had four, so I've gotten older brother and older sister, then there's myself, and then I have a younger brother after me.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the transition to the UK like I've never, I've never been to the UK and maybe you can convince me I'm I'm looking for a reason I just man I know and this ain't about nothing but I just hear the reviews of the food just don't seem to be favorable from everybody.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're going to the wrong places.
5:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say, maybe there have been to the wrong places, do you, George?
5:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I reckon what needs to happen is people need to understand that the UK is made up of so many different cultures.
5:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're not talking about a history that goes back 30 or 50 years.
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about a country that has been enjoying international dishes.
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: for centuries now because of their conquests around the world in centuries past.
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's happened is incredible Asian food has come and has been infused in the cuisine here, African food has been infused in the cuisine here, Caribbean food has been infused in the cuisine here, the food in England is a little bit if you know where you need to go.
6:09
[SPEAKER_02]: If you know where to go, and another thing to convince you.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Come to my neighborhood, you'll see us, you'll see us, you'll see everybody, you'll see flea market, you'll see the nestles, you'll see fancy restaurants, you'll see street food, it is so colorful and so diverse, honestly, like it's a great place to visit, particularly London, South London, particularly
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost convinced, man, I'm almost convinced, man.
6:37
[SPEAKER_01]: One last question about nothing before we get serious.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: With Zenbiwe's thing, like I hear about the Joe Loft from the Ghana, and I don't know what the battle is with the other country.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it?
6:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Zimbabwe's think, or do you have a zool-off version with it?
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have a zool-off, no, that's very much a West African argument that we tend to not involve ourselves in the argument.
7:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We just keep the zool-off, we embrace.
7:07
[SPEAKER_02]: the Garnanja love, the Nigerian ja love, the Sierra Leone and we have raised them or we don't argue, but in South Africa we have something that is made from maize meal.
7:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So in Zimbabwe we call it sada, which is it's like a white pulp made from maize meal.
7:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Maize is a is like a is like basically a row more robust version of corn.
7:27
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you think sure, yeah, so like corn is like baby teeth and then maize is like adult teeth.
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about like the size, yeah.
7:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a lot, so yeah, they brand that down.
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're different names for it.
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: This sunset in my country and then others call it path, others call it palletch.
7:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there are different variations, but it's made the same way, maize mill, water, tsh, tsh, tsh, tsh, tsh,
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Beat it all the way down.
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a real workout.
7:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why our queens have biceps and triceps because they be turning that sensor and you have that with your octetel stew.
8:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You have that with your beast stew.
8:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You have that with your roadbremel chicken.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You have that with like your vegetables.
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be what you guys call colored greens.
8:13
[SPEAKER_02]: We call it right or spinach.
8:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Just yeah, lots of variety but simply made and very delicious.
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm convinced, man.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm I'm on a
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: See you soon.
8:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, your transition to the UK 10 years old, you've already kind of laid out a bit of the timeline that 10 to 14 was where things started to change.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What was the initial transition like and then that four year period with things ultimately ended up looking different?
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: How did I have that impact you?
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: The change itself happened very abruptly and there was no warning and it was very much an in-house issue that had taken place and my mum had decided that the best move was for her to come to the UK.
9:02
[SPEAKER_02]: and then us a lot as children decided that the best move was to basically make sure my dad got us here as soon as possible behind her because life we we weren't prepared to try and cope without the person who really ran the house.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So we came to the UK two weeks after my mom did very, very quick transition.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It was it was very shocking.
9:27
[SPEAKER_02]: trying to understand the difference of culture.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's a lot of people might assume is
9:33
[SPEAKER_02]: that the difference of culture I'm talking about is like move from a majority black country to moving to a majority white country.
9:39
[SPEAKER_02]: In actual fact, when I first came to the UK, I moved to South London.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So there were lots of people who looked like me, but then there was a massive divide at the time between Caribbean and Africans.
9:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So there were two mountains to climb at the same time.
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: There was the mountains to climb whereby being a confident,
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: while spoken African boy with agency and confidence was offensive to some of the native white folks here and then being the very same thing next to Caribbean boys who perhaps didn't feel as confident and didn't have the same identity values that created a challenge as well and that took about nine years in general to try and get used to and not to get over it to just
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: this is what I'm dealing with.
10:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was very difficult.
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't to walk in the park at all.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's your dad like, man?
10:33
[SPEAKER_01]: When you remember the most?
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: My father was so fascinated by me.
10:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the things I remember.
10:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'll talk about the stuff that
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of like gives me, gives me a good anchoring.
10:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So my dad was really fascinated by me.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad was a high flyer man, like, well, you know, my dad used to work in the government.
10:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it wasn't unusual to have,
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: officials and ministers and stuff like that in my house, you know, um, it was pretty regular having this salsa crazy, going to the president's house for breakfast, stop like that, um, and so on a business level, on like a, on a, on a, on business level, my dad was on business.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he was definitely somebody to look up to in that way.
11:20
[SPEAKER_02]: He was a lot of people's hero.
11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: in an in a massive way.
11:23
[SPEAKER_02]: My father's nickname for me when I was growing up was brilliant, which I think is one of the best gifts you can give to a child in terms of their confidence.
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But my father also was not very emotionally present, so there are a lot of things that he did impossibly that he didn't feel like he needed to, he owed an explanation.
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So he very much was a bushman in that regard.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I say bushman,
11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't say it in a derogatory term.
11:48
[SPEAKER_02]: My father was born in the most rural of circumstances.
11:52
[SPEAKER_02]: My father became a cat catalarder at the age of eight.
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he used that role to finance the education of all 11 of his siblings.
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So while he had tenacity drive determination and achieved great success, there's a lot about the in a man that was that was remained that it was left untouched Where by I've had to do some tidying up for myself going forward, which is why I love the conversations that you have on this podcast because it's that
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, when I would pay to hear my dad say, some of the stuff that some of the dads that have said things, if I could hear what I would pay to hear my dad say, what some of the dads on your show have said is incredible.
12:40
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, I just, since he passed away five years ago, I've really come to understand that he really did, and I hate this phrase truly, but he did the best he could with what he had.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: don't like that phrase at all, but I could live there so my life being resentful and being upset.
13:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not going to work for anybody.
13:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's a bit about my dad.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that phrase.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, that phrase is communicated with the tone of grace, not an excuse, right?
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough to understand what it is to be a man, a husband, and a father until you have become a man, a husband, and a father.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So that doesn't excuse things that happen, but sometimes, why I say for me, I don't speak for all of them because I haven't spoken to all of them.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, for me, that experience still gives me context around what could have been
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: My father's deal at any given stage, right?
13:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other piece of it is, we are children looking through the lens of a child at adults, the way we think adults should treat children.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And it makes perfect, it makes perfect sense until it doesn't until you're on the other side.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have children that are looking at you that way.
14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm grateful that I still have access to my father.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and to my sons at the same time, because that has it happened to our knowledge on his side of the family dating back to the 18, 18 hundreds.
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there hasn't been a father who's had his father and sons at the same time that we know them.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of those things,
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And experiences, like I say, I extended a lot of grace to my father and I didn't have a terrible experience to my father.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I, but your lens is your lens.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So how you perceive things in the moment, if something is the worst to you in that moment, nobody can tell you that it's not the worst to you.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And till you may get some other perspectives from other people and understand that, oh,
15:01
[SPEAKER_01]: that's what that is.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what worshiping it looks like.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting that you said that and I'm wondering how when did you start feeling like when did you understand that his deficiencies may not have been in tension?
15:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I began to understand that his deficiencies weren't intentional when I paid really close attention to my mom, who's still with us, thank God.
15:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I asked my mom what's the point of time.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, mommy, do you think, as I do think you're my dad asked each other the right questions before you come back, right?
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I love because I love because I knew the I know the real answer to that question, but I also knew the answer I was going to get and and I don't know why this is so funny, but the answer that I got was definitely confirmation for me that this really wasn't all therefore because it was it was such an auto pilot answer why me just said to me of course we did.
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and already I had been quite deep into my emotional well-being practitioner journey, working with young people, working with adults, just communities in general, and so I was able to close and say, oh, hey, this is this is cultural, this is generational, this is not isolated, these are like,
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: with all your respects to that elder generation, how are we liking it in terms of trying to ask them to show up in an emotionally intelligent way, right?
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: In the way that in the terms we understand today, it's like asking an 18-month-old, 18-month-old to tie shoelaces.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, like it's like the comprehension of what you're asking them to do isn't even there.
17:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can't measure somebody's ability.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, it's something they don't have the comprehension of.
17:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the level of forgiveness I was able to then give,
17:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Because of this, I was like, ah, and now it's not just like a really cool proverb that makes me sound gracious and forgiving.
17:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like data and for me, I'm a fan of data, big fan of data.
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, okay, cool.
17:38
[SPEAKER_02]: This generation was not culturally raised this way.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Linguistically, they do not have this in the bag.
17:45
[SPEAKER_02]: They, this is not in their will house.
17:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So release them and thus release yourself.
17:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great perspective.
17:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have children?
17:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Not yet, but I might as well because I've been raising people's kids for 25 years.
18:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, okay, let me have mine already.
18:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, and so I can get the real badge.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's something too that I mean, definitely when it's your time, you will understand in a different perspective, but I don't this cow giving of yourself two young people are hoping to make a better person of them.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that look like for you?
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that your line of work?
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Nail?
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it just a passion to invest in the younger people?
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how did you
18:35
[SPEAKER_01]: becoming a father to you.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been investing in the larger younger people for the last 20 years in terms of outside of my own family, inside of my family, I am the uncle.
18:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, you know, that's a standard thing.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But in terms of out in the world, my brother nicknamed me about 20 years ago, he said, father of the nation, father to the fatherless.
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: he would say.
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And it started when I was volunteering for my Ben Church, and I'll go in there a few times a week, and it was literally, so I didn't have my documentation yet.
19:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I was undocumented and that's the term that you guys use over there in the state.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: But as I had that going on at two choices, after I finished my compulsory education, it was either get on the street and sell some weed or go in volunteer at the church, which one and just be ready for when the documentation does come through.
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So this wouldn't happen for about four years.
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I was highly frustrated.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: and so I'm going in and volunteering and I'm just hearing these black boys moaning all the time and I'm just, I'm getting annoyed because I'm like, why are you moaning?
19:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You have your life laid out in front of you.
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a British passport.
19:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You have eligibility to work.
19:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You can you can make money anywhere.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: But
19:56
[SPEAKER_02]: all you do is moan moan moan.
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't stand it until one day I was in the office and this one young man.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: He was not even that much younger than me.
20:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we were two or three years younger than me.
20:07
[SPEAKER_02]: He's come into the office now and he's moaning again and I'm just like, oh, I can't stand this guy.
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I heard what was bothering him.
20:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And I began to understand why he kept on coming to that place.
20:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And so essentially what had happened is that he had had a bit of a situation with his mum.
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I heard the details of the information asked it, oh my gosh, this sounds really familiar.
20:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And for the, for the, for the wider part of the conversation, it's the mother wound that showed it up, yeah.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So this, this will come in a little bit deeper later.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's the mother wound and I'm like, oh my gosh, but I didn't call it that there.
20:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just called it annoying mother syndrome.
20:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm talking to him.
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, no, how man, she's always getting up to me because they're doing it.
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, really going for it.
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's suddenly this kid who annoyed the living day that's out of me suddenly, I'm like, hold on, I see you.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Hold on a minute.
21:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, wait, hold on.
21:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I can relate to this.
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I started just observing from a distance and I started talking about all of this provider, all of this machismo, all of this, like, all of this, like, you know, putting their stuff on the table to, you know, for, you know, to see who's really, you're, you're, you're.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh my gosh, it's because they're all hurting.
21:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the thing is for me, what never worked for me was the tough act.
21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It just never worked.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't even try, because I just knew it wasn't for me.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: For them, it was just all that morning, but coming across a bit rough, like, sharp, top-man, what in it, in it, you know, as I, oh my gosh.
21:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, my one was just be comedically well-timed.
21:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my mechanism.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Their mechanism was rough.
21:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when I noticed that, I started having more and more conversations.
21:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And as the years went on, I became a trusted ear.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: and what I had to say became a trusted voice, and I didn't get it right all the time, but as the years went on, I realized, oh my gosh, like this is my being.
22:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So while I went in building community, and I worked with men, women and children, my specialty, especially over the last nine years, has been the emotional wellbeing development of boys and men.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you pursue it academically in your certifications or just passion-related this?
22:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Great question.
22:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So initially it was passion, right?
22:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I actually managed to get into university studying psychology.
22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: This is years ago.
22:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But then for some reason, that didn't work out.
22:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how that just worked out.
22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But I kept on going and doorsteps on opening.
22:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I managed to get a job a few years ago as a youth minister.
22:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So what?
22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So I started doing that and then I got onto a theology course which I'm still doing right now.
23:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm studying theology at Cambridge which is insane because how did that happen?
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't write that.
23:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's been a passion to pursue, but then now I'm backing it up sort of like academically and pastorally with the course I'm currently doing, but my curriculum's my books and all those things that I've done so far.
23:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just been God's guidance, prayer, perseverance, and just literally dreaming these things up and delivering them.
23:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We just had an episode about doors closing
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: you starting off on the psychology track you said it didn't work out what was that period like like how did how did you manage through pursuing something and not working now.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you can enhance icon to see that it may sense but it doesn't necessarily make sense in a moment.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you what D. Jones at the time it did make sense.
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It did make sense.
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a very discerning man.
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I very strongly believe that everything is divinely appointed.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was just happy to find that I can get in to a university course.
24:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because remember, before I couldn't do it, because I was undocumented.
24:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't even bother trying.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: years ago, like sort of back in 2020, when I got the, you know, letters from the university, seeing congratulations and so on and so but I was over the moon.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is great.
24:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But all that really counted for was just to just confirm for me, deep down, just to confirm that I can actually do it because, well, let me not say too much about my entry process, but my entry process to where I am now was not
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: way.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, basically, I was seen and my gift was acknowledged and my entry onto that was expedited because of the value that I brought to the space that I was in at a time.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was completely unexpected, but again, I believe in divine appointment.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I really do believe that these things are written and all of the results that I get out of life is data.
25:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's data, so I follow that and it allows me to stay focused because I wasn't always very good at staying focused.
25:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Has it been difficult to surrender to your calling?
25:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It has been excruciatingly difficult.
25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It has been excruciatingly difficult.
25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought I was going to be...
25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: touring, being a pop star, singing amazing cool songs and just doing that, you know.
25:43
[SPEAKER_02]: But before I imagine doing that, I dropped off being a pilot.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I even did four years of flying training and it was so disappointing.
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like an athlete who's been training to beat an NFL for all of their adolescents and then like they find out just before draft day that their injury,
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: is not going to be fixed on time, they might as well kiss that career goodbye.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what's saying goodbye to piloting folk like for me, you know.
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I say that because I've listened to lots of NFL players and NBA players who got in early big money, great sponsorship, blah, blah, blah, and then they got injured.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what
26:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what being told.
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't be a pilot felt like for me.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that's also what it felt like when I found out that being a famous singer in the in the way that I thought that it wasn't going to happen that way.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And so surrendering to my calling has been an
26:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a battle against a deep sense of chronic denial and I run it to the even more painful when one sees how effective I actually am at it.
26:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, three, you know.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I get that completely.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I get that completely.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What qualities do you see in dealing with young men?
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: calls you to remember how your father dealt with you.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, ask that again, please.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What qualities are you finding in you as you're dealing with young men that reminds you of how your father dealt with you?
27:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you?
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Some things, you know, take the good and throw away everything else.
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you completely 180 from what you experience with what stuck?
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think
27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I think primarily it's more to do with the fact that I've had to forget everything I saw growing up when dealing with the other man, because there is no blueprint to dealing with young man properly.
27:51
[SPEAKER_02]: There isn't.
27:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything, most things that people have tried has failed.
27:55
[SPEAKER_02]: An example I can give you is that here in the UK, a big question for a very long time is and has been, why is there so much violence?
28:04
[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening with the knife crime?
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: The do-do-do-do.
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And while they spent years and years and lots of money on tokenistic projects that, you know, sing no higher than virtue signaling, I was saying, I was asking the same question, who's asked these boys if they're okay?
28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, just in its simplicity, in its regularness, who's asked these young men, are you okay, right?
28:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And even if you get a really, really strong non-answer to begin with, that young man just needs to know that somebody cares, right?
28:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, the reason why I said, like, you know, I don't even look at my father's or primary source in that regard is because when I tried to have conversations with my father, that were emotive,
28:54
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, age 9, age 10.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was switched on like that.
28:59
[SPEAKER_02]: That is one thing that I look back on and I'm like, wow, if that was, if I was an adult listening to me, I'd feel a little bit cornered.
29:06
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad would say to me, you know, I'll say to him.
29:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So Danny, why did you talk to my mom like that?
29:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And did that, whatever, I think he turned around to me.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: He'd be like, why are you so emotional?
29:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't be so emotional.
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's not something that I would push or something I'd say, I love from him.
29:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would go and see these young men and be like, right, okay.
29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I'm not the only man in this room who has felt this thing.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I'm not the only bride in this room who's felt like frustration in this way or felt pressed down, you know, and so I'm just what I've what I've found to be a very important quality is just to be curious, curious if somebody is okay, curious about where they are, not coming to conclusions, and even if your assumption is correct,
29:52
[SPEAKER_02]: We all don't need to, for somebody to belong.
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, over you.
29:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I did something really stupid the other day, man.
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had to apologize to somebody, and then the accountability stake, I had to tell one of my friends that I did something stupid, right?
30:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And that I got pulled up on it, right?
30:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And even in that moment, he's like, you know, okay brother like so like have you really paid attention to what's going on.
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He didn't give me a Uh-huh Because even I will go back in my show Even I will even I will stop Being accountable if someone treated me that way, right?
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So curiosity, having an open mind as men we love to be loved when we just don't we're just not very comfortable with the various expressions of it, right?
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we weren't given the full menu growing up, right?
30:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don't really know what certain love looks like.
30:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I asked my friends
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, every couple of years for some of my really, really close friends, I say, so how would you like me to love you in this season?
31:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's the best way?
31:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and what that's done for me and my friends is that in areas where we wanted to polish up on our faith, we've been able to step up and say, oh, bro, so how is that prayer life coming along?
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: how is that that book that you said you're going to write?
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Brother, you said you wanted to start a fashion line three years ago, so tell me what's coming up.
31:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because love for him in that moment might mean me asking that, because I care, right?
31:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Where he might feel like some people in his close-up proximity don't care, because not my under the case, but he might feel like they're not care.
31:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So me showing that I care is a way of loving that person in a way that they feel big, they can best be loved.
31:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, man, it's just about staying open, being curious.
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say secondarily, I would look at my dad because my dad knew how to be compost.
31:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I've had young men tell me some horrific things, absolutely horrific things.
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been able to hold it together and I think that composure definitely has come from my father.
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what has been your journey to okay?
32:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are you okay?
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: My journey to okay has been a long one.
32:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've been moment at the first time I felt okay, like as in like woof, okay?
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like a human was when I turned 35 and that'll be three years ago tomorrow.
32:39
[SPEAKER_02]: the first time in my whole life when I felt like it was my 35th birthday and I was on my way to my birthday party.
32:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, for the first time I was like, oh, and I still was plagued with my issues.
32:51
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, each of the issues were really right for the time, but for the first time at the time this is where it feels like to be, I just okay and not hyper vigilant and not looking over
33:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, being a 35 year old man and the thing that made it so the time is because off the list of my father, I said, I said, I don't think it gets any lower than this.
33:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because his death, it, it, it, it picked, it unpicked every scab you can think of.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Every scab you can think of and I hit the, the lowest of the death, the lowest, the lowest, I was drinking ridiculous amounts, ass trades, blunts, just everywhere, just.
33:38
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, it was it was dark.
33:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So coming up from out of that, connecting with community, being transparent, sharing with friends where I was at, you know, even people who have have people who have helped to raise and just me being so honest and saying, hey guys, this is the human side of your mental.
33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the human side of your father.
33:58
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, I refuse to do petal store lifestyle.
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I refuse because the day that I trip and then someone's like, oh, but I thought you were this and second, no, but I never was.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I never was.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been flesh.
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been man.
34:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been born in sin.
34:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Always, you know, and by my beliefs, I've always been saved by the death of Jesus Christ and He's a resurrection after three days.
34:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, you know, I never want to pretend.
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: like I'm somewhere that I'm not in terms of journey to okay I'm still on that journey I'm proud to say that I've just done a round of consultations for another new brand of therapy it's been a few years since I've done it consistently so I literally just got the results from my assessment and so I'm going to be going to a program and I next few weeks I'm really excited about that because
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: in the work that I do, I'm constantly making sure that, you know, everyone's okay.
34:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm really pleased to have had the assessment that I had and to be moving forward in this direction, especially as we're talking about, you know, the work I do and the books and the play and the
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: asking each other, for you, at least asking them how do you need to be loved in a season.
35:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That struck a core with me because my oldest son told me the importance of a man telling another man that he loves him.
35:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on, like, like, I knew my father, there's never quite this as far from a fashion plaque when I know you watched, but I say it often to make sure people understand, I don't regret the father that I have.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He asked some deficiencies from that I have some with both of where I'm now.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So I try to make sure my sons don't have those efficiencies.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But one thing, my oldest son would do when I take them to school to drop them off, he said, I love you and look at me.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: like it was like thanks to my wife because she comes from I love you every 15 seconds family and I'm not saying that flippily my family we love each other it just looked different you're just you're just no you love each other yeah we don't get efficient it it's not like it was never said but now it's a habit even for me leaving the house to let people know um all of that to get to the point of this question
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: What is your work with young men teaching you about you?
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's teaching me about me that my primary style of parenting is the style of parenting I received and that there's a lot of work to do there.
36:41
[SPEAKER_02]: To put it plainly simply and I'm talking about a lot of impatience.
36:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So the work I've done with these young brothers
36:53
[SPEAKER_02]: particularly the young brothers because I naturally want to be rougher.
36:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I naturally want to be a lot more sort of like gritty with them.
37:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm forced to remember that I need a gentle love.
37:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually need a gentle love.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: That was...
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the type of law I needed, you know.
37:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And there were times when some people thought that we're doing me huge favours by being that same toughness that I want to be on them and actually it had the opposite effect.
37:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes I forget how terrified I was, you know, being an adolescent coming up.
37:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Just terrified that I might have to answer for, I don't know, why I was late to my mathematics class.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing crazy, nothing deep.
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But just like the anxiety was real.
37:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It was how it's Tuesday morning.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got that assignment, you, I'm 12 years old, you know, and I'm thinking, so raising them has taught me to be more patient, to be more gentle, and to remember how I came up and that what I got was an always the best prescription.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Who taught you how to love?
38:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's a good question.
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, my idea of love was warped from the start, wasn't it?
38:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It was, you know, love was, I love you.
38:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.
38:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Love was your intro book and I'm gonna spank you now and I'm gonna tell you that I'm doing this because I love you.
38:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm gonna do tough things that feel and seem and probably are unfair.
38:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm gonna say life is unfair,
38:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I love you and sort of going with that.
38:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when I started seeing people be actively and intentionally loved, it infuriated me because I didn't recognize what I was looking at.
38:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'll give you a light example.
38:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Something super easy.
38:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Like.
38:57
[SPEAKER_02]: when I was 15 years old and I've popped around to a friend's house just to visit, it's been a Saturday afternoon.
39:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And then because that because my friend has just come back from like a sport they play, they wouldn't have had time to like load the washing machine.
39:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So to hear them say to their parents, oh mom, I'm not able to load the washing machine because you
39:33
[SPEAKER_02]: because you know, and I said, I'll start light, because there's no way at 15, I was asking my mom to run the laundry for me.
39:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't even matter, it doesn't even matter doesn't love me, let's not get that twisted.
39:47
[SPEAKER_02]: But that parents understanding that, oh, my child has had to go do this thing.
39:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So because we've had to go do this thing, I'm gonna be helpful and alleviate the pressure by doing that.
39:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in my context,
40:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even, I wouldn't even dare ask because the training at 11 years old, we went from having maids and help and this and that to move into England being told, you watch dishes on Wednesday, you make your own beds, you watch your own clothes, no questions asked, shut up, that's it.
40:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not cruelty, it's not cruelty, but it's, you know, I didn't understand.
40:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought love was just the things that you said.
40:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, no, love was like to say this person could do with a little bit of your support in this way.
40:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to be, I'm going to give it a little bit of grace.
40:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those experiences.
40:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess the answer to the question and it like by naming, I watched other people's, other people's parents, loving their children.
40:44
[SPEAKER_02]: and seeing what that looked like.
40:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw other people's parents communicating to their children and I was like, they're communicating with their children.
40:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how do I mean, did you just give your address and child a choice?
40:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you just say, like, hey, is it this?
40:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Who?
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine that.
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I get it.
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a girlfriend.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've got it now, so you're like,
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The biggest realizations that I had to accept was it is there.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to give my children the benefit of my experiences.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Not my experiences, right?
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So because this was only me, not in all cases does this need to be on you as well.
41:39
[SPEAKER_01]: just so you can understand where I came from and thinking that makes them appreciate things differently.
41:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a place for some of it like there things that I definitely carry forward and I hope they carry forward through the next generations, but
41:54
[SPEAKER_01]: because I went through a thing, sending them through a thing, just didn't, it clicked, later than I wish, where it clicked nonetheless.
42:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, um, we're, we're, we're, we're coming to time for this conversation.
42:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't imagine that this would be our last one.
42:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless this was just horrible for you.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is great.
42:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and your session awesome interviewers.
42:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, technically, this is just a conversation.
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I get what you're saying, but I've occurred like my life in corporate.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate the thought of interviews.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I did it for years.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried to ascend.
42:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I did screening people.
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate what people present in an interview.
42:41
[SPEAKER_02]: God, sure, okay.
42:42
[SPEAKER_01]: the interview is not the person you typically get in a corporate setting.
42:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's my that's my weapon.
42:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can I can please tell you say it and I'm grateful.
42:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not being a jerk.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just that I just said I'm I'm just curious man if it.
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It works like this or it doesn't, like if it was, if it wasn't working, the conversation would have been about three minutes or not a game of your time back and I took my time back, but I'm genuinely interested and this has been well worked my time, but to be less and long when the full title in the show was, dear son, what I wish my father told me,
43:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a, I wish my father told me that he really wasn't perfect and that no man is and that no man should be expected to be, but every man should expect it,
43:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That pressure, you know, it can, it can damage a person.
43:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen what that pressure can do.
43:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It hasn't been that way for me and my father being who he was in the world is incredible.
44:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But at no point do I feel like, oh my God, I'm put to, I've got to, but I've seen how that's.
44:08
[SPEAKER_02]: affected other people and you know because of that balancing you know balancing my dad's fallibility um his humanity as well as like the incredible stuff he did to put it into perspective to yourself and all the viewers are missing as right
44:27
[SPEAKER_02]: If you think about a man who's born in the late 1930s, early 1940s, right, and is born in a rural setting where wearing animal skins and loinclots was not a Halloween costume, it was the attire of the day.
44:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Raging on slate was not an ancient thing.
44:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It's genuinely how they took notes and made
44:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That boy went hurt when a head instead of hurting cattle, right?
45:00
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no internet.
45:02
[SPEAKER_02]: The country's colonized it belongs to white people at this point.
45:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah?
45:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that boy goes and hurts cattle for white people.
45:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
45:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's a little money.
45:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Middle child of 12 children has everybody else sent to school.
45:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody older and younger.
45:18
[SPEAKER_02]: sees to it that his parents own their first home at his hand and not their own.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he hitchhiked and then he hitchhiked to South Africa, right?
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Where he went to the university or South Africa.
45:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, he went down south, right?
45:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he went from South Africa to the United Kings of where he then attended another top university, the London School of Economics,
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: walked in in the same circles as the British royal family and all those things to the point where my father was involved in the choosing of his appointment in the Zimbabian government.
46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you look at a little boy who comes from dust dust in flesh dust in circumstance dust in the pocket and then he does all that all of that
46:16
[SPEAKER_02]: If you place your van you in life on that alone, you're going to struggle because you're going to feel the pressure.
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But also on the flip side, you can't look at that and be hopeless.
46:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't look at that and not, you know, we've got so much going for us.
46:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And so needless to say, I'm really proud of my dad, there are definite things I wish we talked about.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But understanding how he came up and who he wasn't what he had to do with, I was able to to wholeheartedly forgive and that forgiveness and that ease of heart has allowed me to carry out my work.
46:50
[SPEAKER_02]: whole, you know, with her whole heart and to mean it and not out of loss, but out of knowing just how much value I can add because my father is part of the reason why that I have the identity of calling myself as important because before he didn't what he did, I learned what the guerrilla fight is and the activists, it would still be called Brodejia today.
47:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So so for me to be able to have that mark next to me,
47:16
[SPEAKER_02]: that identify next to me is because my father got up out of bed and he's dusty circumstances did not hold him back.
47:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, along with all those freedom fighters, you know, and that is the likes of what the people who did the civil rights movement in the 1960s, that's the kind of, that's the kind of makeings of a man we're talking about.
47:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my dad did, you know, and so I'm proud, but I'm not pressured.
47:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not pressured.
47:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: He bet you you better say a public gleam before I do because I'm taking that.
47:51
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my one.
47:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
47:54
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I not press it man.
47:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's all let's celebrate you in a way out.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have going on?
48:00
[SPEAKER_01]: How can the people?
48:02
[SPEAKER_01]: find you, you mentioned books, you mentioned all the things like this, taste them time to celebrate you in a way out.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you want people to know?
48:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
48:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'd like you all to know that I'm currently promoting two books at the moment.
48:14
[SPEAKER_02]: One is called the Brunch Brothers and Invitations to the Table, which is a book that is born out of nine years of initiatives and engagements with young men and all the men as well.
48:25
[SPEAKER_02]: All the
48:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We've worked with a good few hundred men over the last nine years and now we're expanding by inviting other men to Open up their table to start hosting branches and the book will walk you through the whole journey of how everything began and how you can also get involved And then the second book is called branch brothers adventures, which is The new chapter for the movement
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We're now spouting the conversation with younger children who perhaps might not respond to workshops like how older boys and men will do.
49:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've created a story series called The Brunch Brothers Adventures of four fires and that is available right now.
49:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're both of them are available on Amazon and invitation to the table and four fires.
49:16
[SPEAKER_02]: We're written by myself, King Cass are joining and the paperback is out right now available to order Kindle and other
49:26
[SPEAKER_02]: and you can find me online at a journey kingdom.
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That is on Instagram and if you want to follow more of our product work, it's quite simply at my eq learning.
49:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Johnny, I pulled it up, man, I don't know how it went, but God's going to work that out, man.
49:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that this platform was intended to be global, not for any vanity seat, and I just think global isn't limited to conversations over the internet.
49:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to happen, man, and you'll be one of the first, you know, like I said, I really
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: not the corporate perspective because I would land work fly.
50:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Out.
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of how it went.
50:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I've driven across Victoria Lake and never saw it because I landed at night and drove across midnight and left at night and never like never saw any of that.
50:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm interested in that.
50:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But this has been a pleasure.
50:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad we were able to work it out.
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: My word to you is if you, if you're with it, it's not going to be our last conversation because the way you ended celebrating who your father was.
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: gave me a little bit more insight and to the DNA of who you are and I wouldn't explore that a little bit.
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot there, there's a lot there, man.
50:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm totally down, I'm totally down, bro.
50:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've thoroughly loved the conversation.
50:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for sharing the time.
50:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool, cool.
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I did say it earlier, like Shes and Sprout.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: If you got in this far, you should have already done that if not what you doing with your life.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's gonna do it for this episode.
51:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate your guys, God bless you, Picks.