Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - Founders Seminary & Q&A Panel Discussion Voddie Baucham, Tom Ascol, Tom Nettles

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - Founders Seminary & Q&A Panel Discussion Voddie Baucham, Tom Ascol, Tom Nettles · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Nettles, Dr. Bauckham to come on up.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Askell is going to join us as well. But as
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: they come up to join us, we wanted to have
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: a discussion with these three men about Reformation and Revival,
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: given the fact that you have all uh, given your
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: lives to that.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And I think between the three of you, it's.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: About what, 300 years of service to the kingdom.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: 306 years, 306 years.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Um, and so I wanted to ask you guys, and
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: what we're going to do during this or after this
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: discussion is we are actually going to have mics and
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: give you an opportunity to ask questions as well. And
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: we'll have some cues set up for you to wait
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: in line to ask questions as they come up. Um,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: if they are good questions, the same rules still apply.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: If you text the questions in and it's a bad question,
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: then we don't ask those questions. And if you have
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: come up and asked a maybe not so good question,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: then I might say, well, we're not going to answer
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: that one.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: So keep that in mind.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: You'll just reinterpret it and.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Make it good. Yeah, I will do my best to
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: But given your life and your ministry and your service
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: in the kingdom, and the fact that the three of
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: you really have been laboring for Reformation and Revival, and
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: that's what Founders is all about. We say it in
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: every podcast, it's on all of our literature, it's been
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: the center of our mission. We labor for the reformation
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: of local churches. So we wanted to hear from you
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: and your own personal experience and your own personal wisdom
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: in the different spheres of your life and ministry. So maybe, Tom,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: we can start with you, Dr. Nettles, as one who
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: has labored predominantly, perhaps, in academic work and academic ministry.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: how that has taken shape for you.
• 2:04
  Speaker 5: Well, really it's an amazing story of God's providence and
• 2:08
  Speaker 5: things that I would never have thought would have happened.
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: I didn't think that 42 years after we had our
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: first conference I'd be sitting here with all these people
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: like this. But I remember the first time that I
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: met Ernie Reisinger. He had come to give out the
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: Boyce book. He gave the Boyce Systematic Theology to all
• 2:28
  Speaker 5: graduating seniors at Southern Baptist University. schools and other schools also.
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: And so he came on Southwestern campus. He had permission
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: to do this. Eventually he lost permission because it was
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: having such an impact and people didn't want to be
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: seen as sort of peddling Calvinism to their graduates.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: But at that time, it just.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Seemed to be.
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: Tom, let me interrupt you because... It won't be the
• 2:51
  Speaker 6: first time.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: No, it won't, nor the last.
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: But Ernie was given away the abstract principles by James Boyce.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Absect of systematic theology.
• 3:00
  Speaker 6: Systematic theology, that's right. And he was doing that on
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: all six Southern Baptist seminaries, and he did it for
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: a couple of years. And what happened to get him
• 3:09
  Speaker 6: removed from being able to do that is one of
• 3:13
  Speaker 6: the presidents finally read the book.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: That's a fact. Yeah. You're just too kind to say it.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: First time I've been called kind. Thank you very much.
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: So I went over and I met Ernie and he
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: was just all joy and wonder and students were coming
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: by picking up these books. He had this table set
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: up over in the Naylor Center at Southwestern Seminary. Then
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: about five days later I got these two big boxes
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: of books that he had sent me. The works of
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: Jonathan Edwards and the works of John Flavel and he
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: had sent me, I think maybe even Newton's works were
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: in there, this banner of truth stuff.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, man, what is this? Who is this guy?
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: So I began to learn more about who he was.
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: And after I left Southwestern and went to Mid-America, we
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: both were getting all kinds of letters from students who
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: were reading this book and responding positively to it and
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: were wanting to know more about this. And so I
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: called Ernie one night and I said, Ernie, I think
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: that we should we should just sort of, we should
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: advertise somewhere and just have a conference just about the
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: doctrines of grace. And he, of course, he was really
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: familiar with conferences because he's deeply involved in Banner of Truth.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: And through all of that, we decided, yeah, we need
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: to get a committee together. And so Tom Askell, his
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: brother Bill, Fred Malone, R.F. Gates, Ben Mitchell, we all
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: showed up there in Dallas and planned the first Founders Conference.
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: That's all it was called then, it was just Founders Conference,
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: and we'd do it once a year. And so the
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: first one, we had 80 people that came. We didn't
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: know that there were 80 people that actually believed these things.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: And it was just, it was really great. George McDiarmid
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: was one of the ones that first came, and then
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: his friend named Dean Allen and others. And so we decided, okay,
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: we'll do another one. And it became just a yearly event,
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: and it increased in size. And it was just purely
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: a matter of God's providence and how he used a
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: work that was written back in the last part of
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: the 19th century, showing the perpetuity and the timelessness of
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: these truths and how they witnessed to God's people. And
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: so out of that, eventually, of course, through Tom's visionary leadership,
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: it became Founders Ministries, did much more than just the conference.
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: But that's kind of how it started. It was just
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: with the generosity of a person finding the right book
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: that would witness the Southern Baptist showing this is what
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: your historical view is and being willing.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: To give it away. People reading it, saying, okay, this
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: is right.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: So that's how it began, just the Founders Conference. It
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: began as a prayer meeting, and then you had your
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: first conference. And It's, well, it's grown into quite a lot.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: It's a much larger conference now. What are the other
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: ministries that Founders is involved in, Tom?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I just work there, so I don't know everything that
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: goes on.
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we have a journal. We started a theological journal
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: that I edited for several years. Tom edits that now,
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: and it's just electronic. It used to be print-copied. We
• 6:52
  Speaker 6: also do books, and so we're, I think, on schedule
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: to do like 30-plus titles this year or last year,
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: more than that, about that, this coming up year.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: My mind is, what else do we do?
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: We do a podcast.
• 7:11
  Speaker 6: We do a podcast. Thank you, Graves. I told you yesterday,
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: he's the brains behind this. I just show up. I'm
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: what they call eye candy.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: And you have ILTC? Yeah. IOPT?
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, the Institute of Public Theology, which I'm
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: never tired of telling this story, because in 2020, COVID,
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: you know, the madness that went on there, and then
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: everybody was disoriented. I mean, you know, it took us
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: a few weeks to kind of get clarity to say,
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: wait a minute, what's going on here? And, you know, what, what,
• 7:44
  Speaker 6: what is, what is this, uh, uh, coronavirus, which seemed
• 7:50
  Speaker 6: like it was a pretty serious virus, but just had
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: a good PR department and got out there widely. And
• 7:59
  Speaker 6: we thought we would try to do something. We had
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: an opportunity to do something in another state to have
• 8:05
  Speaker 6: like a university, seminary, business incubator. I mean, just a
• 8:09
  Speaker 6: big deal. Made a play on it. I guess I
• 8:12
  Speaker 6: could tell this story. I've never told this publicly.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Tell it. I don't know if I should. All right, well,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I'll go ahead.
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: So Ridgecrest Encampment Center was owned by the Southern Baptist
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: Convention in North Carolina outside of Asheville. It's 1,300 acres.
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: And Lifeway put it up for sale. And Lifeway had
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: sold Glorietta in New Mexico 10 years prior. And I'd
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: worked at Glorietta and grown up going out to Glorietta.
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: And it's a beautiful place. Ridgecrest is a beautiful place.
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: They sold Glorietta 10 years prior for $ 1. Because, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: it was just bleeding, and they had to get out
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: from under it. And so there was a businessman in
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: our church. Whenever I was out for a walk, my
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: wife texted me and said, hey, man, they're selling Ridgecrest.
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: And so I texted a business guy in our church
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: and said, hey, help me buy Ridgecrest, you know. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: so he said, well, what is it? So I told
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: him about it. So he puts together this whole pitch deck.
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: We form an LLC, and he actually— I don't know
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: what Ridgecrest is. Yeah, it's an encampment center, 1,300 acres,
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: you know, around like 70 or 80 buildings and dorms
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: and auditorium. It was where you would just— North Carolina.
• 9:26
  Speaker 6: North Carolina, Nashville, North Carolina, where you'd go and have conferences.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's beautiful.
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: So he puts it together. He goes out there, meets
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: with the CFO and all the folks, and he says,
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: you know, you sold— LifeWay sold Glorietta for a dollar. Would
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: you consider that? And they said, yeah. So we put
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: together all of our stuff, what we would do with it,
• 9:43
  Speaker 6: because they wanted to keep it Christian. And I think
• 9:46
  Speaker 6: we offered maybe a dollar five or something. I don't know.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Inflation.
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: But it wasn't much. And we made it down, I think,
• 9:54
  Speaker 6: to the last three, but we didn't make the cut.
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: And they sold it to another group. And, it's still
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: operating today. But what we learned in that process, we said,
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: why not just do it right here in Cape Coral?
• 10:06
  Speaker 6: And couldn't do all of it, but that's where the
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: initial framework for IOPT came about. And then just seeing
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: how pastors, myself included and others, just weren't equipped to
• 10:18
  Speaker 6: to handle what was being done to us by the government. And,
• 10:22
  Speaker 6: you know, like this, what's happened that that became so
• 10:26
  Speaker 6: easy and normal for the government, for governors to start
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: telling churches how you ought to do worship. You don't
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: have to meet together. You could do it online. And
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: then to see some evangelical leaders saying, here's how you
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: can have the Lord's Supper online. Here's how you can
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: conduct baptisms online. Get in your bathtub, You know, put
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: your computer up. I'm still like, bizarro world, you know?
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: You think, what in the world.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Is happening here? And so we thought, we need to
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: do some training.
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: We need to do better than what is going on.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So that's where the impetus came. And I'll never forget,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I called you.
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: I never call you in Zambia without texting you, you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: because it's seven or eight hour difference.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And it was late.
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: It was late. It probably was early morning hours for you.
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: But I called and you picked up. I said, hey, man,
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: I got this idea. What do you think about, you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: and laid out IOPT? And, you know, you said, I'm in.
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: I'm in.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Let's do it. So I called Nettles, next phone call.
• 11:28
  Speaker 6: And, you know, and Tom's far more mature than I am.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: And he said, well, that sounds good.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: That's another word for older.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: He said, let me pray about it. Let me pray
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: So he called the next day. He said, I'm in.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And so I said, okay, let's go, man. Let's go.
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: And we had some guys that were already involved in
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: the LLC that agreed to stay on. And so, you know,
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: got those guys involved and we just started building it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: And that was August. That was August of 2020. And
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: in the providence of God, a businessman in our area
• 12:07
  Speaker 6: asked to be introduced to me and came to see
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: me just about the same time And he said, you know,
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: so there's a bunch of us think that we need
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: a new seminary. So we just don't think that the
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: seminaries today are trustworthy. And somebody suggested I should talk
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: to you. And this man was not reformed. And we
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: had an initial, I didn't know anything about him. I
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: didn't know why he wanted to meet with me. But
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: after about an hour and a half, he said, well,
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: you know what? He said, I came up here to
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: talk to you. And I really expected to go back
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: and tell my friends, well, Tom Askell beat me up
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: with the five points.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: He said, so that's not going to be us. But
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen.
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: So through that, he invested heavily in IOPT to get
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: us going. We could not have done as quickly as
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: we did what we've been able to do without this
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: man's kind and very generous investment. So from that, we
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: did three years. You've heard about that. Now we're starting
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: Founders Seminary, God willing, opening the doors in the fall.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it's been an amazing thing that I can,
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: you know, way 20 years ago, you could have sat
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: down and say, this is what we want to do
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: in 20 years. It's just been God opening doors and opportunities,
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: but I was trying to remember you and I first met,
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: because I think we'd emailed and talked on the phone.
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: I mean, this is this guy in Texas was ordering
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: all of these 1689s, you know, I mean, we just
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: kept getting multiple orders.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: And, uh, finally said, who are you?
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So, uh, that was a fun time. And I think
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: back then, um, I was also, um, doing some blogging, right,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: back when people were blogging, and I wrote the one
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: about using the term Calvinist. And, you know, I hadn't
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: thought about all the implications and everything in the SBC
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: or whatever, but when you saw that, you immediately called.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Because I knew you would need a friend.
• 14:05
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: Absolutely.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, that's how that friendship started. But it
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: was here that we actually met for the first time
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: in person. That's right.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: It was in Oklahoma, wasn't it?
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: No, no, no.
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: It was right here. Yeah, I was in this church,
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: I think. This church hosted the Florida Baptist Convention.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: I don't remember what year that was, but I knew
• 14:32
  Speaker 6: he was going to be in town, and so I
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: asked if he would be willing to stay over and
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: speak for us on a Wednesday night.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think you came to my house with the night
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that night, if I remember right.
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: And we came over to, a couple of us came
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: over to hear you speak at the Florida convention. And again,
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: after you spoke, I thought he's really going to need
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: a friend. It was the year that there was a
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: resolution in the SBC that that anybody, not only could
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: you not drink alcohol, but anybody who would not say
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: that it was sin to drink alcohol would not be
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: allowed to be any servant in the SBC. And I
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: don't know, it's like the story of my life in
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: some ways, but I was sitting at a microphone waiting
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: to speak to something else at that convention, and you know,
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: and the guy making the amendment to make it even
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: that restrictive is a friend of mine, and I So
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: I got the mic.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I said, Jim, we can't be more righteous than Jesus.
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: I'm a teetotaler. I don't drink. But I just don't
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: think this is a good amendment. Well, there was a photographer.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: You never heard of non-alcoholic wine?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Welch's.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: There was a guy with a photographer.
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: From a newspaper was across the auditorium evidently because the
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: next week my picture was is blasted across Baptist press releases.
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: Here's Tom Askell trying to encourage Southern Baptists to start drinking.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: And then you needed a friend.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then I needed a friend.
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: So Vody comes and he's preaching on qualifications for pastors.
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: I don't know if you remember. I remember the sermon.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I absolutely do. And the thing
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: about that amendment was it was not just, they didn't
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: say drinking. They said the use. And I wrote an
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: article on that basically saying that the way the amendment
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: was worded, if you ate a dish that was cooked,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: you know, if you ate chicken marsala, like you were disqualified, right?
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: If you ate chicken marsala, that was the use of alcohol.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: So I just was the same thing you were doing,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: pushing against how ridiculous, you know, that whole amendment thing was.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And so in my message here on qualifications, I just
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: talked about how, you know, they're in the same passage, right?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: You're disqualified if you're a drunkard. but you're also disqualified
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: if you're not a father who keeps your children in line.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And I just made the point that one of those
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: qualifications we completely ignore, and the other one we elevate
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: above the requirement.
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: I don't know that you should add that word just
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: in there. When you said that's just all you did,
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: I mean, you kind of made the point. I just,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: you know, I just said what the text said.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: That's just all. That's just all. But it was in
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: the middle of this whole controversy. And so I guess
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the point of all this is that our relationship from
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the beginning It was born in controversy.
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: It was born in controversy.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And about us, you know, just finding one another, um,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: right in the midst of conflict and, and, and controversy. Yeah.
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: I remember the, and I won't name him, but, uh, the,
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: the prominent Southern Baptist leader who stood up after you
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: spoke and, uh, he, he was lamenting the fact that
• 18:19
  Speaker 6: we'd had this, the had to have a debate over
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: this amendment and what's happened to Southern Baptist. Don't we
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: all agree on this? And he said, uh, We may
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: not be right, but we will be sober. So anyway, yeah,
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: Bodie came to the house. He spoke to our church
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: that night. And God just further cemented what had been
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: a very early relationship that's developed into some wonderful things.
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, Tom, I think about how I got to
• 18:50
  Speaker 6: know you, too. And I was a very disgruntled, self-righteous person.
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: college student who believed God had played a cosmic joke
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: on me because I did not like pastors, did not
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: know a pastor I trusted, and I believed God was
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: calling me to be one. And I thought, how can
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: this be? What's going on in my life? And my
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: brother was in seminary. You were his friend and professor,
• 19:15
  Speaker 6: I think, in the same church. So I went up
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: to seminary. Bill invited me up to talk. He set
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: up three appointments with different professors. And the first was
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: a religious education professor, and I was You know, he
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: kind of dismissed me and the ethics professor. So I
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: just didn't know enough pastors. And by that time, I
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: didn't want to go talk to the history professor. You know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: I thought that these guys are just playing into the
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: very kind of caricature in my mind. But I went
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: and sat down with you and you said, yeah, there
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: are a lot of guys that are in the ministry
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: that shouldn't be in the ministry. And I thought, whoa, okay,
• 19:48
  Speaker 6: you know, let's tell me more. And it was so good.
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: He's very gentle.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: I would probably still say the same thing today.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:54
  Speaker 6: Well, I would too. And I mean, you gently led
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: me to kind of back up and to, to realize, okay,
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: you know, I'm seeing something, but I'm not, I'm not
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: nearly as clear headed as I thought it was. There's
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: a lot of self-righteousness there that, you know, and I
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: don't remember even how you did it, but that is
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: the first time I met you. So when I went
• 20:13
  Speaker 6: to Southwestern a couple of years later, you were the
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: first professor I took. I took everything you taught, including
• 20:19
  Speaker 6: that first time you taught medieval history, which was a real.
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: Knowles and Obolinsky was the textbook. And it was a translation.
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: And I don't think it had any sentence that wasn't
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: a full paragraph.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: I wanted to test your perseverance. But there were some
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: good things in that course. I mean, sorting out what
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: happened in the Middle Ages and sorting out some of
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: the good theologians and looking at Anselm and his conflict
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: with Abelard.
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: Gottschalk and Hinkmar, that's where.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: I learned about that.
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and we did some of the primary source reading
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: on them, so. It wasn't completely.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: It wasn't all bad.
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: That's true. It wasn't all bad.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: I haven't taught it since.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: That's a mercy from God.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: You guys have been in ministry for, for a long time.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: You know, I was reminded yesterday that I'm a, I'm
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: a hanger on her. Um, you know, I came into
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: the reform tradition kind of in the midst of the
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Young Restless and Reform Movement. And Tom, you said something
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: yesterday in our panel discussion as we were talking about
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: reformation and revival and praying for it and wanting to
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: see it. And just kind of what was really helpful
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: was taking a step back and seeing the ways in which,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: you know, over the past several decades, we really actually
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: have seen a lot. And I've had conversations with even
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: friends this weekend we've had relationships with for decades. And
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: seeing the way that the truth of God has spread
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and churches have been revitalized and the truth has taken root.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: So maybe you guys could talk about that from your
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: own experience in the history of your ministry, how we
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: have seen reformation up to this point.
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, revival and reformation should go together. If revival
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: does not issue in reformation, that is a close scrutiny
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: of doctrinal commitments, a desire to be educated, a desire
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: to be coherent in our understanding of scripture, to see
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: how one doctrine relates to another because all these are
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: sanctifying influences in our life. If revival is just sort
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: of a splash and makes a big impact for a while,
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: there are eternal consequences. But if it's going to be conserved,
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: it must lead to reformations. And so I think that
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: is what has happened. I think that when I first
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: went to seminary, it was in the Escape Vietnam days.
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: And so we had a lot of guys that were
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: there because they just knew if they went to seminary,
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: they didn't have to go to Vietnam.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: And it was very confrontive, and it was just....
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: Hardly anything except on rare occasions where you could get
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: an extended conversation that was edifying and that was helpful
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: and would actually sink into your vision of ministry and
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: those kinds of things because there were just a lot
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: of guys that were just there to confront. And so
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: when I went back to teach, that was my experience
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: in the MDiv program. So when I went back to teach, I...
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: would make, I would make my lecture and then I
• 23:49
  Speaker 5: would say, okay, now someone's going to object to this,
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: but this way, and I'd have my answers sort of
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: beginning answers written out in the sides of my, of
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: my lectures. Well, in the meantime, the Jesus.
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: Keep your thought. But I used to do that with
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: my sermons when I first started preaching. I would put
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: in the margin, you know, if somebody stands up and
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: asks me this question, what will I say?
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: You know, go to this verse. You probably taught me that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: I might have.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: Because that's the way I had to prepare because that
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: was the kind of situation where I was doing my
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: MD and my PhD. And so we had people who
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: were radically committed to sort of a Just a sectarianism,
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: secular approach, senior moment. A secular approach. And then there
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: were those who were really wanting to learn scripture. And
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: then there was this beginning sort of a conflict with
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: Calvinism and non-Calvinism that was even developing then.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And so....
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: My experience was that you just have to be ready
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: to answer any question because someone is going to object
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: to it. And the Jesus revolution had taken place, and
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: all these students began to flood into seminaries who were
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: just hungry. There were some who were typically Southern Baptists.
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: They wanted to know if they were going to get
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: the First Baptist Church in this town, and then they
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: would move to the First Baptist Church in the other town,
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: and then they would get a denominational position. So you
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: had these people who were just sort of gullibly religious
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: wanting to learn something and the others who were just
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: wanting to fit in and so when I was expecting
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: these conflicts on the one hand I would have these
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: people saying wow that's great you know and writing it
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: down and wanting to learn and others just just saying
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: okay well I'm just getting my seminary degree so so
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: that was the situation when I first began to Some
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: of it was just very pleasing because the Jesus revolution
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: had occurred and there were people there who were wanting
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: to learn. And I think that was an example of
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: revival then beginning to move into reformation. I think a
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: good many of those people actually began to believe the
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: doctrines of grace and became a part of the groundswell
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: that began to happen.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: And so revival happened. has to lead to reformation.
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: And of course, I've been committed to theological education for
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: virtually all my professional life, and I believe that it
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: can be used in that way. I think that when
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: it's managed properly. So I think that what's happening with
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: the Founders Theological Seminary is a good step.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: It's the next step.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: We've seen certain things happen that have shown that revival
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: is going on, that it's catching on, that there are
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: people who are very interested.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: And so to conserve this and.
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: To make people who have the proper gifts more useful
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: than they might be, then theological education is a.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Good next step.
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: I think that's been the history of theological education in
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: the Southern Baptist Convention, at least for Southern seminary and
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: Southwestern seminary. Then they began to just form sort of
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: denominational institutions. But these two arose out of a sense
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: of just of an existential urgency with J.P. Boyce founding
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: Southern in Greenville, South Carolina, and then B.H. Carroll founding
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: Southwestern Seminary first at Waco and then moving to Fort Worth.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: It was just seeing the great need for informed engagement
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: with the world and informed instruction in the churches.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: So they were, those were, I think, excellent God-led movements.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was saying that this really resonates. When we
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: went to Lusaka, it was because of the same thing.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: There was, at that time, a two and a half
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: decades old Reformed Baptist movement there. And in it was
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: out of what God had done there that the need
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and the desire to have Christian education, Christian university, theological
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: training had grown up. And so one of the things
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that really attracted me to that opportunity, one of the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: things the Lord really used was that same desire. And
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Seeing it happen in that way, it's just the right
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: way for it to happen, for there to be a movement.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And then out of that movement comes this reformation that
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: sort of solidifies itself in the form of theological training.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah, when the inerrancy movement had basically succeeded. And there
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: was some degree of revival that went along with that.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: People becoming very serious and really realizing they needed to
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: defend the inspiration of scripture. And that if we don't
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: have scripture, if we don't have an infallible word from God,
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: then what is the use of all of our proclaiming
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: the gospel and saying that people are going to go
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: to hell?
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: That could be one of the worst passages in scripture.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: And so we began to lose the gospel and you
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: lose the deity of Christ. You lose substitutionary atonement, just
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: like it happens once you deny the infallibility of Scripture.
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: So it was an important movement in order to solidify
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: even the possibility of theological education. And so when that
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: had sort of begun to mature, this whole idea of
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: reformation began to weigh heavy on me. And that's when
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: I wrote Ready for Reformations. Because once you capture the
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: foundational authority, you affirm the inerrancy of Scripture, then you've
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: got to ask the question, well, what does it teach?
• 30:12
  Speaker 5: What system of truth are we going to build on this?
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: What system of truth is actually consistent with the whole
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: body of divine revelation? And so that concept of reformation
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: and of conserving the gains of revival is And helping
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: try to perpetuate that into other generations, I think, is
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: a valid stewardship that we have. It's not something that's
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: just trying to conserve our energies or conserve what the
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: Lord did in our generation.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: I think it is a.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: Stewardship that we have that is placed on us by
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: God to try to show that we, that Scripture... Truth
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: is important, and then the systems that are built on Scripture, truth,
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: are life indeed.
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: That idea of stewardship is something that, the older I get,
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: the heavier it rests on me. I don't have much
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: time left, so what will I do with what I
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: have left?
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to waste time.
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: I started a few years ago praying, Lord, don't let
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: me waste the minutes of this day And I'm trying
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: to think about that. And when I was a younger pastor,
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: I wish I had thought more carefully about stewardship in
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: that way that I'm thinking about it now. Because every pastor,
• 31:38
  Speaker 6: every Christian, every Christian, you may not be a pastor,
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: but you have a stewardship with what God's given you.
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: He may have made you an excellent carpenter. Well, then
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: become more excellent.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Learn more.
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: Better how to be a plumber or an electrician or
• 31:56
  Speaker 6: a carpenter or a doctor or a lawyer, whatever it is.
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: Be the best you can be because God's given you that.
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: God's put you in this sphere. And what can you
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: do for his glory in that sphere? Recovering that whole
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: idea of vocation, that I'm not just making a paycheck.
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: I'm not just taking up time to get to retirement.
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: I'm actually positioned by God in his wisdom and power
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: in this part of his kingdom for purposes that will
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: bring glory to him.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: So how can I best do that?
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: You know, as a pastor, invite other pastors in. You know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: we did that early on. I remember we'd give away books,
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: you know. We had some folks after a few years
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: that began to kind of get on board with that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: And we would have a pastor's lunch or breakfast or just,
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: you know, come to hear a presentation or fellowship or
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: pray and, and we'd give away books. And that's a
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: little thing, you know, it's not a big deal, but it,
• 32:56
  Speaker 6: it would bear fruit over time. And I think about
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: some of the men in our church now that have
• 33:02
  Speaker 6: far better grasp on this than I did when I
• 33:04
  Speaker 6: was their age.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful for it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: You know, that, you know, since a stewardship, we don't
• 33:10
  Speaker 6: know when Jesus is coming back, but man, it's, it's
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: not just hang on until he gets here. No, I mean,
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: We are the recipients. This building was financed and built
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: by people that are long dead. And the institutions that
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: we all went to were started by people long dead.
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: And are we willing to plant those trees that we
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: will never enjoy the shade of, but our children and
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: grandchildren might? And thinking about the seminary, Founders Seminary, Was
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: it two years ago, I think it was? There was
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: an announcement made about this new university in Austin. Have
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: you all heard about this?
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: Libertarian type of university. Yeah, and I know the guy
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: that met him. He's an atheist, and we're not friends,
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: but I've known him and talked to him.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: He's involved in leading it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: There was $ 100 million given to it before they broke ground.
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: They just announced this college, this university, $ 100 million in
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: the bank in the hands of secularists. And there's some
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: Christians going to be involved in it because I think
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: they have a true liberal spirit about them. But, you know,
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: I'm looking at $ 100.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Million in the hands of atheists and secularists.
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: You know, I've met some Christians over the last year,
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: who seem to have a right kind of ambition, businessmen,
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: men that God has gifted with ambition and understanding of
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: the world and their sphere of that world and trying
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: to leverage it to the best they can. But we
• 34:59
  Speaker 6: need more of that. And we used to have it.
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: Christians were the ones doing it. They were the ones
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: making the culture. And we've got to regain that. Whatever
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: time we have left. And pastors, we need to be
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: teaching our Our men do this and women as well,
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: but in their own spheres. But man, take advantage of opportunity.
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: Look at the world God's put you in. Where are
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: the opportunities? I think the default mode so often is
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: it's just too tough. You know, man, I can't afford
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: a house and I don't, you know, this is just,
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: I don't want to do. Well, get up earlier and
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: stay up later and think about these things that God's
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: given you because you're not here just to, just to
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: hang on. You're here to make a difference for the
• 35:41
  Speaker 6: sake of Jesus Christ. And do that in whatever way
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: you can. Might not be glamorous. Might not be anything
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: that will get written up in a book. But do
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: what you can with what God's given you. Because he's
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: given you something. The parable of the talents is a
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: significant and needed lesson in our day. You know, I'm
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: not a five-talent guy. I'm not a two-talent guy. But
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: I know I've got at least one. And I'm going
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: to bury that? Am I going to bury that? Well,
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: that's a sobering thought.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Well, I did say that we would give you opportunity
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: to ask questions. So do we have microphones? Yeah, we
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: got a microphone. Chris Farrow has a microphone here. If
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: you have questions, you can come line up here at
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: the mic. Don't harm each other to get there, please.
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: And our folks know this at our church, so please
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: don't be offended. Or if you are offended, just... Forgive
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: me if I need it. I may not need it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: If you're offended, it doesn't mean I've sinned. But if
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: I do sin in what I'm about to say, forgive me.
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: But when you ask your questions, just ask the question.
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: Just get as specific and pointed as you can get
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: to get the question asked, okay?
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: Understood.
• 36:54
  Speaker 8: So I'll try to get right to the point. So
• 36:56
  Speaker 8: we've been talking about Puritans and revival. And as someone
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: who has been reading the Puritans and seeing how they
• 37:00
  Speaker 8: present the truth beautifully, And I'm a young pastor and
• 37:04
  Speaker 8: preacher myself. I wonder, what's the role of beauty in
• 37:07
  Speaker 8: preaching today?
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: What's the role of beauty?
• 37:12
  Speaker 6: What's the role of beauty?
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And since I'm the ugliest one on the stage, I'm
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: going to keep my mouth shut.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: So what constitutes beauty?
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: God has made everything in a way that we are
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: just amazed at the beauty of of the whole world
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: and the variety of colors that come up.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: Look at that line. Man, I better be short here.
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: What I said about succinctness goes for the answers too, okay?
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: God loves beauty. He is beautiful. Human language is beautiful.
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: It can be beautiful in the construction of the universe.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: the denotation of the words, the connotation of the sentences,
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: but it can be beautiful in its simplicity also. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: so striking a balance, and you have to, when you preach,
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: you really need to work on it sometimes. There are
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: some passages you probably should just write out because the
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: thoughts you're giving are so beautiful that they need to
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: be said precisely.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: They need to be said right.
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: And the way in which they're said needs to reflect
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: the gorgeous nature of the truth without hiding it. And so, yeah,
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: just shortly, beauty is great and language is beautiful. And
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: you can read the language of some people and that's
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: why we have poets that are sort of rise in
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: a literary way above other people at times. That's why
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: Shakespeare is just so perennially wonderful to see how he
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: says things. But the Puritans were also beautiful in the
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: simplicity with which they could say things and the plainness.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: The plainness is so beautiful. How can they take these
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: wonderful truths that some systematic theologians may write 50 pages
• 39:09
  Speaker 5: about and encapsulate it in two sentences? Now that's beauty.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: And so yeah, working on beautiful ways to say beautiful
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: things I think is a stewardship of of the person
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: who would stand up before others and proclaim the word
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: of God.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: Is beauty in the eyes of the beholder?
• 39:33
  Speaker 9: No.
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: Beauty is an objective reality that reaches deep into things
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: that we think are.
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: Not objective, but just like truth.
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: That's, that's an important.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Point because God is truth and God is beauty.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 39:48
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 39:49
  Speaker 10: I was wondering if you thought there could be a
• 39:52
  Speaker 10: relationship between God withholding revival in our country and the
• 39:57
  Speaker 10: Christian church's apathy to child sacrifice.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what more can you say? The answer is yes.
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: And when Israel gave itself over to Molech, without objection,
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: there was the promise of judgment. And if that's what
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: we're doing, if we're not setting forth sufficient objection to
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: these sacrifices of people made in the image of God
• 40:39
  Speaker 5: to the sometimes misperceived but nevertheless the selfish self-image people have,
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: then we are no less guilty than Israel was in
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: throwing babies on the fire to Molech.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I would say yes and no, because while that may
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: be true on a broad sort of national scale, we
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: have seen over the years on local levels and sometimes
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: even broader than just local levels, that instances of revival.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: And that's just God's mercy.
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: And more and more organizations seeking to deal with this
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: issue of abortion. And so it's not completely without opposition.
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: And we pray that that will be a part of
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: the revival, that kind of seeing a culture of death
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: that is developing. To oppose that culture of death says
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: that we value life and we value eternal life.
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: Dr.
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: Bauckham, I'm so thankful for your exposition on Psalm 51.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: One of my favorites.
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: As the Lord would have it, last night I happened
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: to watch a reel that you had said something and
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: I wrote it down verbatim. And if you could please
• 42:06
  Speaker 7: explain it. You said, I am a child of Abraham,
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: heir of the promise to Abraham. I am and you
• 42:16
  Speaker 7: are the fulfillment of God's promise to bless all the
• 42:21
  Speaker 7: nations of the earth through Abraham. You are not an afterthought.
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: I am not an afterthought. This is what God had
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: in mind all along.
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: Amen.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 42:42
  Speaker 7: Were you talking to both Jews and Gentiles? Who were
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: you talking to?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Yes. Everybody who's a child of God by faith. That
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: is the promise to Abraham there in Genesis chapter 12.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: And the Gentiles coming into that is the fulfillment of
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: that promise.
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: Yes. Yes.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 43:06
  Speaker 7: Thank you.
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: Baruch Maoz spoke at my church yesterday. where I am,
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: and he was preaching out of Ephesians 1, and he
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: was in the passage where it says, so that we
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: who were the first to hope in Christ, and he said,
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: that's Baraka and me. We were the first to hope
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: in Christ. We had the messianic promises. And then it
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: goes on to say, and you also. He said, that's
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: the rest of you. And so he just made this
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: pungent application of that idea that this covenant to Abraham was,
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: was to bless all nations. And there he was, a
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: Jewish man, preaching to this largely Gentile congregation, but showing
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: how Paul had just brought that together in that first
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: chapter of Ephesians. And it was just like, I had
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: never thought about it that way, when Paul says, we
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: who were the first to hope in Christ.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: He says, that's Bracha and me.
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: That was the Jewish nation. But they then said, all
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: these others. So yeah, thank you for saying that in
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: your sermons.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Let's see how many we can get.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Let's see how quickly we can get.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Okay. Go ahead. My question actually refers to Dr.
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: Askell's first message where he was talking about prayer and
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: Psalm 44.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: And my question is, how do we pray to God
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: boldly and say things like, wake up, God, where are you?
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And also be humble and meek before him?
• 44:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, it's got to be possible because it's in
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: the Bible. And I remember going through Jeremiah years ago,
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: and Jeremiah basically accuses God of lying to him.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: You deceived me. And I'm thinking, this is a prophet.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: This is a prophet.
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: But even the Lord Jesus on the cross, my God,
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: my God, why have you forsaken me? So you can't
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: be more righteous, more humble than God. And so when
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: you're using God's word, and you are praying that word
• 45:08
  Speaker 6: back to God, it's got to be able to be
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: done in a meek and humble way. And I think
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: God never calls us to pretend. And one of the
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: things I love about the Psalms is it forces us
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: to show or to see the range of emotions that
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: we have been given by God to be brought into
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: the alignment with God and harnessed for ways of of
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: living authentically before him and so you know i've thought
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: this and said this on various occasions that you know
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: you're never justified to be mad at god that's always
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: sinful but if you're mad at god don't pretend like
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: you're not because you're just complicating one sin with another
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: and so if you're mad at god go ahead he
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: knows it anyway You say, God, I don't like the
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: world that you've made right now. I don't like what
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: you've done. I don't like what I'm doing here. And
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: it seems like you're asleep. Now, to accuse God of
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: being asleep is sin. But if I feel that way,
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: to pretend I don't feel that way is compounding one
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: sin with another. And it is a testimony to how
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: gracious and kind and patient and long-suffering God is that
• 46:27
  Speaker 6: he would allow a creature, that he rescued from hell
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: to speak to him in that way. So it can
• 46:36
  Speaker 6: be done, and we ought to work on doing it.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Very good.
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks. Good morning, gentlemen.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: My question for you today is, what are some ways
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: to revive a church and its elders from a lack
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: of initiative and complacency?
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Do you have an answer side to that? Is that,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: is this a flip card? Here's the question. Here's the answer. Oh,
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: so it's a genuine question.
• 47:10
  Speaker 6: I think it's, it's the word of God. I mean,
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: it's the same thing. What do I do to get
• 47:13
  Speaker 6: out of my apathy? You know, my passivity, it's the
• 47:17
  Speaker 6: word of God. If you're a pastor and no matter
• 47:20
  Speaker 6: where it's the word, just teach the word, teach the word,
• 47:24
  Speaker 6: get it into your own soul and do the best
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: you can to get it in front of your people.
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: Because the word does the work. The spirit uses the word. And,
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: you know, there might be some tips here or there
• 47:34
  Speaker 6: along the way. But, man, you can't be right thinking
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: regarding the word of God and be passive and apathetic.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You just can't.
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: I think means and results are the same thing in that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: I wrote an article when Jeff Johnson started a revival site.
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: And the first article that I wrote for it was this.
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: And it's the last chapter. in the book on revival
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: that you received. And that's the use of means. So,
• 48:03
  Speaker 5: so will revival result in people with more fervent praying?
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: Well, how do you accomplish that?
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: You, you arrange for meetings where you're going to seek
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: fervent praying. Will revival result in people loving the word
• 48:16
  Speaker 5: of God and, and wanting to live in accordance with it? Well,
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: you as the God called pastor, challenge them with the
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: word of God, make them listen to these sermons, give
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: a pure puritanic application to it because if they're going
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: to be able to be revived and just love the
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: word and love the application of it, you preach that way.
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: So every result, look at every result that you think
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: should come from revival and put that as a part
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: of what the total ministry of your church is going
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: to be.
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Because in doing these things, if they're biblical, if they're.
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: Warranted, God's people will come to love them and they
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: will come to see man, this is helping me grow
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: in grace. And so I think contemplating results and then
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: incorporating means in accordance with the results that you want
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: to see.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Very good.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Let's let the next man ask the question.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: No, I just meant it to focus it more. I'm
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: a member coming and looking towards the eldership and its pastoral.
• 49:21
  Speaker 6: Pray for them, talk to them, share your burden with them.
• 49:28
  Speaker 9: So obviously over the last several years we've seen a
• 49:30
  Speaker 9: shortfall in the church. Some churches that didn't care, other
• 49:34
  Speaker 9: churches that did care about what was going on, but
• 49:35
  Speaker 9: they didn't know how to handle it. What would you
• 49:38
  Speaker 9: recommend for a pastor of a church or a congregation
• 49:43
  Speaker 9: to look for as far as understanding the sign of
• 49:46
  Speaker 9: the times, to know what's coming next, and how to
• 49:48
  Speaker 9: be more prepared for what is coming.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: What's coming next?
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: You're the prophet.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Go, bro. I'm not a prophet or the son of
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: a prophet. But that's the Christian life, right? That's the ministry.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: What we do is we serve the Lord. We continue
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: to commit ourselves to the ordinary means of grace, but
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: we do it within the context of a church and
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the life in that church and of a community and
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: a broader culture and never forgetting any of those things.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I think when we run into problems is when we
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: become so myopic, That we only think about, you know,
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: this little circle, not recognizing that we exist within the
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: context of a community and a broader culture. And that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the word of God has something to say about how
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: all of those things are structured and organized and ordered together.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: And I think to the degree that we begin to
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: look upward and outward, we become more aware of those
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: challenges and also more prepared to meet those challenges.
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: I think that your sermon where you pointed out that
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: Paul had predicted that people with itching ears would come,
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: we have within the Scripture warnings against specific things. And
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: these specific things are said within such general categories that
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: they can be applied to what we see. Colossians warns
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: against vain philosophies, and we've seen that coming in in
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: the culture and trying to usurp the place of biblical
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: revelation and the way you relate to social issues and all.
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: So there are sufficient warnings in Scripture if we will
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: simply take these things seriously to understand that we're always
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: to be on guard against these things that the culture
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: is And the thinkers of culture will throw up against
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: the church and against divine revelation.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: So there's a.
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: Constant feeding of our minds to see the beauty of
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: Scripture and to see how Scripture relates to everything in
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: life and even our thoughts and the thoughts in the
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: public arena. And so just being prepared for it. We
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: shouldn't be taken by surprise by these things that come
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: on us.
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: The Bible explains the world. It explains Hitler. It explains Shakespeare.
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: And the more we read the Bible and see the
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: world in the light of the Bible, the better prepared
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: we'll be.
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: Next.
• 52:31
  Speaker 6: As a fellow brother in the SBC, what do you
• 52:34
  Speaker 6: think the SBC is going to look like over the
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: next decade?
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Another prophetic question.
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look. The SBC is not going to get better
• 52:50
  Speaker 6: and do what it ought to do, is capable of doing, apart.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: From radical change. Radical change.
• 52:57
  Speaker 6: There's got to be change in leadership across the board,
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: in my estimation, because we've got guys that are good
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: and capable, but they've failed in their leadership.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I love them, but they've failed.
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: And as we're seeing right now, just this week, on
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: the national government level, I mean, there are radical things
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: being done but they're only radical to us today. 50
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: years ago, they wouldn't have been radical. Duh, it's Tuesday. Sure,
• 53:25
  Speaker 6: we shouldn't be mutilating children. And so I think we've
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: gone so far down this pathway of normalizing the kind
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: of compromise that has become standard that it's going to
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: take some radical commitments of men raising up, saying, no,
• 53:46
  Speaker 6: we're not going to do this anymore. And it's a
• 53:49
  Speaker 6: trustee system, so trustees are going to have to be changed.
• 53:51
  Speaker 6: But I think if you've got a courageous leader in
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: a couple of these places, that they could make a
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: massive difference. So short of that, I don't know. It
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: can become increasingly irrelevant, which is sad, because it has
• 54:05
  Speaker 6: so much potential, and it does good in some ways.
• 54:09
  Speaker 6: And I want to see that good improved. I think
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: it can be.
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: One of the themes of the Reformation was reformata semper reformanda.
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: Reformed, but always reforming.
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: I think in my experience, we are a lot better
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: now than we were 50 years ago. But semper reformanda
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: has got, we never reach the place where we are doing.
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: What God really wants us to do. And I think
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: that what happens is satisfaction sets in, We're so.
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: Much better than we used to. We believe this than
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: we didn't used to. We believe this than we didn't
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: used to. We're taking this stance we didn't used to.
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: And so we become blind not only to the advances
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: we need to make both in theological education and in
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: social issues and in church holiness and these sorts of things.
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: And so we become satisfied because God has granted us
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: such grace that we're better than we used to be.
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: And the Semper Reformanda is the part that I think
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: that we need to press on.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Very good. Next question.
• 55:18
  Speaker 11: Don't worry, this is not a prophetic question.
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 55:26
  Speaker 11: So this is a question that's come up in a
• 55:28
  Speaker 11: few conversations I've had, and I just wanted to get
• 55:32
  Speaker 11: your guys' opinion on it. And it's the idea or
• 55:36
  Speaker 11: belief that Michael the archangel is Jesus or that Michael
• 55:41
  Speaker 11: the archangel is the angel of the Lord and the
• 55:44
  Speaker 11: context of the conversations was not in the sense of
• 55:47
  Speaker 11: the Jehovah's Witness where they believe that you know Michael
• 55:51
  Speaker 11: is Jesus and he was created it was more in
• 55:53
  Speaker 11: the sense of Jesus being the one carrying out the
• 55:58
  Speaker 11: role or work of Michael as a messenger in the
• 56:02
  Speaker 11: same way that we know that he carries out the
• 56:04
  Speaker 11: work of the angel of the Lord as a messenger.
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: Seems like somebody who preached through Daniel ought to answer
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: that question.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Rurik is my student now. I know, I know.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: We've had the conversation.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: It's a great question.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: I would say, you know, most of the reformers held
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: that Michael is Jesus. Not that Michael is a created being.
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Jesus is the son of God. He is co-eternal with
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: the father. But then when you look at him being
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: the prince of Israel, and when you look at him
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: being the one who slays the dragon in Revelation?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: Neither do I.
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: I've heard it both ways, too.
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: And it depends on what the context is and what
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: it says he does. Does he ever fall down and
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: worship something? Does he ever give a greater sense of
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: greatness to someone else? And so I think there are
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: ways in which We just have to judge according to context.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: But there is a really heavy emphasis in many of
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: the commentaries that Michael is the son of God. And
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: he's called, he's an angel because he is the messenger.
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: He's the chief messenger. He's the one that became flesh.
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: And he that has seen me has seen the father.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: You're standing right next to Dr. Tom Hicks there. He'd
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: be a great guy to ask.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Later.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: I'll probably do that.
• 57:33
  Speaker 11: And just so you know, I wasn't going to say
• 57:36
  Speaker 11: it was you.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: I was going to say it was him from day one.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: I outed myself. Thank you, Rick.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: You know, Jesus says, suffer the little children to come
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: to me. And we only have time for one more question.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: So I'd like to hear from this young man right here,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: second in line. And this will be our last question.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 57:56
  Speaker 11: I know you guys have read a lot of books,
• 57:59
  Speaker 11: and I'm 13, so I was wondering what would be
• 58:01
  Speaker 11: some book recommendations for a 13-year-old to grow in the Lord.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 58:08
  Speaker 11: Thank you.
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  Speaker 6: Have you ever read Pilgrim's Progress?
• 58:13
  Speaker 11: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: How many times?
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: Once.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: All right, it's not enough.
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: So keep reading Pilgrim's Progress.
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, sir. Charles Spurgeon read it over 100 times.
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  Speaker 5: And you can see his sermons are filled with references
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: to Pilgrim's Progress and to all the characters in there
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: because there is, as has been quoted a couple of times,
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: you pluck old Bunyan anywhere and out of his veins
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: flows Bibeline. So that's a great recommendation. Catechism, just take
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: seriously learning the answers to the catechism and they will
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: stay with you. You're 13, you're at a premium age now.
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: where those things will plague your life for the rest
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: of the time when you memorize them.
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  Speaker 6: They will be there.
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  Speaker 4: Those phrases will come up.
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  Speaker 5: When you sin, they will say, oh, you learned that
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: you are to hate sin all your life. And so
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: memorize the catechism. You're in an age where you can
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: memorize it.
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: And read the founders has come out with some books
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: that are designed for children.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Before you all take all of them.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I would recommend Christian biographies. Read the stories of great,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: courageous Christian men and women of the past. I mean,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: there's so many of them. But find some good Christian
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: biographies and read those stories that just give you a
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: picture of what's possible in a life that's devoted to God.
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: Have you read The Life and Diary of David Brainerd?
• 59:59
  Speaker 6: No. You have?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: No. Okay. That's a good place.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Brainerd's back.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 6: Have you ever read Here I Stand about Martin Luther,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: Roland Matins?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: All right, that's a good one. You ought to read that.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 6: How old are you, 13?
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: When did you turn 14? Next year. Are you married?
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Are you married? You're smarter than you look.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 6: So read Here I Stand. And also Toward Golden Shore
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 6: about Adoniram Judson. Those would be two really good biographies.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: I hope somebody's writing this down for him.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: He's 13 and smart. He'll remember all this.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much. And thank you all for
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: listening to this.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 6: Thank you.